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Taming the Demons

Feb 9, 2025
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It's week one of our FreeBSD challenge, and for one of us, that penalty Windows install looks uncomfortably close! Plus, Zach Mitchell joins us to update us on Planet Nix.

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Transcript

WEBVTT 00:00:06.129 --> 00:00:08.909 Before we get started today, I have like a little announcement, 00:00:09.169 --> 00:00:11.809 but I don't want to tell everybody. I just want to tell like you guys and like 00:00:11.809 --> 00:00:13.209 the really long time listeners. 00:00:14.189 --> 00:00:17.309 Wednesday morning over at jupiterbroadcasting.com, we're launching something 00:00:17.309 --> 00:00:19.549 special for the long time community. 00:00:19.849 --> 00:00:24.669 So go grab yourself the all show feed, maybe check out Jupiter Broadcasting 00:00:24.669 --> 00:00:29.049 during like, you know, your Wednesday moment of downtime, because we'll have 00:00:29.049 --> 00:00:30.009 something special for you. 00:00:41.669 --> 00:00:46.329 Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. 00:00:47.309 --> 00:00:48.509 And my name is Brent. 00:00:48.629 --> 00:00:51.409 Well, hello, gentlemen. It is great to be with you. 00:00:51.729 --> 00:00:56.709 Today, we're going to update everyone on how the FreeBSD Challenge is progressing 00:00:56.709 --> 00:01:00.389 and which one of us might be awfully close to installing Windows. 00:01:00.769 --> 00:01:04.329 Plus, a special guest will join us later in the show to talk a bit about Planet 00:01:04.329 --> 00:01:06.249 Nix and what's going on over there. 00:01:06.469 --> 00:01:10.769 And then we'll round out the show with some great booths, some picks, and much more. 00:01:10.969 --> 00:01:15.029 So before we go any further, let's say time-appropriate greetings to that virtual 00:01:15.029 --> 00:01:18.349 lug. Hello, Mumble Room. Hello. Hello. 00:01:21.189 --> 00:01:21.969 Always great. 00:01:22.129 --> 00:01:24.669 It's nice to have everybody in there. Thank you for being here. 00:01:25.009 --> 00:01:30.049 And a big good morning to our friends at Tailscale. You've got to go to Tailscale.com slash unplugged. 00:01:30.249 --> 00:01:35.869 Support the show and get yourself Tailscale on 100 devices and three accounts. for free. 00:01:36.389 --> 00:01:39.749 Tailscale is the easiest way to connect your devices and services to each other, 00:01:40.649 --> 00:01:43.269 wherever they are. It is modern networking. 00:01:43.269 --> 00:01:44.029 I think we're outnumbered today, boys. 00:01:44.029 --> 00:01:47.109 And it connects all your devices and your applications directly to each other. 00:01:47.649 --> 00:01:52.749 I have it on my NAS. I have it on my mobile devices. I have it on my home assistant 00:01:52.749 --> 00:01:55.209 system. I have it on the Apple TV. 00:01:55.469 --> 00:02:00.269 I have it on the Android TV. I have it everywhere. And all of it on a flat mesh 00:02:00.269 --> 00:02:02.029 network that is protected by... 00:02:03.083 --> 00:02:06.703 That's right. What else could you ask for? And it's fast, really, 00:02:06.863 --> 00:02:10.523 really fast. Privacy for every individual and every organization. 00:02:11.043 --> 00:02:13.743 I started using it with the free plan. In fact, my personal account, 00:02:13.843 --> 00:02:17.803 I'm still using the 100 free plan. No credit card required. 00:02:18.143 --> 00:02:21.083 But then after using it for more than a couple of years, I realized, 00:02:21.223 --> 00:02:24.503 well, we could actually fundamentally improve the way we do some of the network 00:02:24.503 --> 00:02:26.583 for JB. And so now we use it as a business, too. 00:02:26.923 --> 00:02:29.123 And so do thousands of other companies. 00:02:29.643 --> 00:02:32.043 There's lots of ways to just plug it in with your existing infrastructure, 00:02:32.043 --> 00:02:36.123 too, and it's programmable. So you can manage it like a private network the way you would expect. 00:02:36.763 --> 00:02:39.663 It's really very powerful. Try it out for yourself. 00:02:39.823 --> 00:02:43.663 Go get a free plan, 100 devices, 3 users, and support the show. 00:02:43.823 --> 00:02:46.943 Head on over to tailscale.com slash unplug. 00:02:47.083 --> 00:02:49.903 The easiest way to connect your devices and services wherever they are, 00:02:50.003 --> 00:02:52.543 tailscale.com slash unplug. 00:02:53.383 --> 00:03:00.083 Now, gentlemen, it is time for us to update everyone on how the BSD challenge is going. 00:03:00.363 --> 00:03:03.063 And should we start with a reminder of the rules, Brent? 00:03:03.563 --> 00:03:07.363 I think that's a good place to start. So if you'd like to join us in the free 00:03:07.363 --> 00:03:12.163 BSD challenge, I'm not sure why we have subjected ourselves to this, but it lasts two weeks. 00:03:12.263 --> 00:03:17.563 So we're just coming up on week one anniversary. And so you have one week left 00:03:17.563 --> 00:03:20.443 to join us in this challenge. I think you can get it all done in one week. 00:03:20.643 --> 00:03:21.063 Yeah. 00:03:22.263 --> 00:03:25.403 So just a reminder of the free BSD challenge rules here. 00:03:27.403 --> 00:03:32.423 So, number one, you can use hardware or a VM if you can manage to get that working. 00:03:32.663 --> 00:03:35.223 All good there. So do what pleases you. 00:03:35.623 --> 00:03:39.623 Also, you have about a week left to join us. And I think you could fit all of 00:03:39.623 --> 00:03:41.323 these challenges into a week. 00:03:41.403 --> 00:03:42.763 Yeah, I think a week. You've still got time to join us. 00:03:42.763 --> 00:03:46.163 So please join us. And importantly, we want to know how it went. 00:03:46.423 --> 00:03:51.443 So there are a few points here. You can self-score yourself or just tell us 00:03:51.443 --> 00:03:53.263 and we can just give you better points. 00:03:53.303 --> 00:03:55.683 And we'll have this linked in the show notes. It's up on our GitHub. 00:03:56.003 --> 00:04:00.043 Now, if you install BSD and get it online, you get two points. 00:04:00.363 --> 00:04:04.943 For another two points, you can record audio of yourself and send it into the 00:04:04.943 --> 00:04:06.743 show from a working desktop. 00:04:08.018 --> 00:04:12.998 Of course, a desktop of your choice. Again, for two points, you can get a server 00:04:12.998 --> 00:04:15.938 or service running that's accessible via the LAN. 00:04:16.758 --> 00:04:17.398 Wow. 00:04:17.718 --> 00:04:21.738 But you can also petition for some extra credits, five points each, 00:04:21.758 --> 00:04:22.958 if you want to go this far. 00:04:23.438 --> 00:04:28.458 So some possible options are getting an app running inside Podman or jails, 00:04:28.778 --> 00:04:34.438 installing, configuring a firewall, get Tailscale running on a BSD system. 00:04:34.438 --> 00:04:40.018 You can also try out two BSDs, maybe like a net BSD or ghost BSD and free BSD. 00:04:40.278 --> 00:04:41.638 Yeah, that was still really early. 00:04:41.718 --> 00:04:44.778 There's also this project, Nick's BSD, which if you're feeling extra adventurous, 00:04:44.958 --> 00:04:49.298 you can dive into that or get a non-BSD native video game running. 00:04:51.018 --> 00:04:55.978 There is one thing that everyone needs to be aware of if they decide to participate 00:04:55.978 --> 00:04:57.118 in the challenge, Brantley. 00:04:57.838 --> 00:05:02.938 There is a caveat. If you so choose to join us in the challenge and you do not 00:05:02.938 --> 00:05:06.298 get this working, there are some consequences. 00:05:06.638 --> 00:05:12.018 So if you bail from the challenge, you must, and I think Chris is on this route, 00:05:12.498 --> 00:05:16.578 you must install and run Windows 11 for a week following the challenge. 00:05:16.578 --> 00:05:20.498 And your font system-wide must be Comic Sans. 00:05:20.518 --> 00:05:21.378 Podcast classic. 00:05:21.958 --> 00:05:25.398 So not only Windows, but Windows with Comic Sans. 00:05:26.218 --> 00:05:27.598 It's the double punishment. 00:05:29.818 --> 00:05:34.798 Wow. Well, you know, I was a little concerned this might be me. 00:05:34.878 --> 00:05:41.398 I'll be honest with you, because I was surprised at how little it was like riding 00:05:41.398 --> 00:05:43.538 a bike. Just getting started. 00:05:43.638 --> 00:05:45.218 Wait, you've BSD'd before, right? 00:05:45.578 --> 00:05:48.378 I have. And I was trying to remember when. 00:05:53.418 --> 00:05:55.138 no yeah it was before a lot. 00:05:55.138 --> 00:05:59.298 Of podcasts were on youtube but it was sort of like a well people are on here 00:05:59.298 --> 00:06:03.298 you know this gets me a couple thousand extra views for folks that like don't 00:06:03.298 --> 00:06:04.318 listen to podcasts otherwise. 00:06:04.318 --> 00:06:10.558 I was digging through my kind of like notes from when i was doing some it contracting 00:06:10.558 --> 00:06:18.118 oh and i want to say just based on the timeline that i was looking at I was 00:06:18.118 --> 00:06:23.798 probably experimenting with FreeBSD between FreeBSD 7 and FreeBSD 9. 00:06:24.258 --> 00:06:29.358 So kind of that era of FreeBSD. So FreeBSD 7, if my research is right, 00:06:30.038 --> 00:06:32.798 came out in February of 2008. 00:06:33.238 --> 00:06:33.998 Okay. 00:06:35.318 --> 00:06:42.898 Yeah. And FreeBSD 8 came out in 2009 and FreeBSD 9 came out in 2012. Okay. 00:06:43.815 --> 00:06:49.815 And I do recall ZFS kind of coming along right as I was kind of leaving and 00:06:49.815 --> 00:06:50.915 just going full-time Linux. 00:06:51.175 --> 00:06:58.955 And I initially had a problem to solve in that I was having real performance issues with a NAS. 00:06:59.415 --> 00:07:04.255 And it was over Samba, and the users would connect to it, and the throughput was just abysmal. 00:07:04.255 --> 00:07:06.995 And it would cause login delays and all these kinds of problems. 00:07:06.995 --> 00:07:12.475 And it was kind of a stressful situation because I had convinced upper management 00:07:12.475 --> 00:07:15.335 to bail on Windows NT because it was having a similar problem. 00:07:15.615 --> 00:07:19.755 It was hitting the wall much earlier. But then it turned out the Linux server, 00:07:20.055 --> 00:07:23.415 while it could go further, this was a SLS, SUSE Linux Enterprise server, 00:07:23.695 --> 00:07:27.655 while it could go further and handle more connections, it was also hitting the wall. 00:07:28.235 --> 00:07:31.795 And I went through everything trying to figure out what is this, what's causing this. 00:07:33.415 --> 00:07:36.415 And one late night working you know bringing in 00:07:36.415 --> 00:07:39.815 the overtime i decided screw it 00:07:39.815 --> 00:07:42.855 i'm gonna set up a free bsd server i'm not gonna even tell anybody 00:07:42.855 --> 00:07:45.135 because i have to get permission for all this stuff and go through a change 00:07:45.135 --> 00:07:48.315 control committee and all that it's also i don't have time for that i need this 00:07:48.315 --> 00:07:52.755 fixed tomorrow morning if you so i set up free bsd and i also had to have what 00:07:52.755 --> 00:07:58.055 is the model for that and then i wrote a bash script to like manage all of the 00:07:58.055 --> 00:08:02.235 acls and permissions because things didn't directly map to like the same UIDs and whatnot. 00:08:02.455 --> 00:08:07.335 So like all of the company's user data and everything was under totally different 00:08:07.335 --> 00:08:12.115 UIDs and GIDs that all had to be swapped over. And I don't remember. 00:08:12.215 --> 00:08:15.895 I don't think there was a direct one-to-one to extended attributes either. It was tricky. 00:08:17.615 --> 00:08:24.175 And the next morning when the users logged in, it didn't hit a wall at all. There was never a limit. 00:08:24.535 --> 00:08:28.515 The disk performance was exactly what I expected from the system and expect it for. 00:08:29.495 --> 00:08:34.335 And so I was like, okay, there's something here. Why is free BSD so much better? 00:08:34.495 --> 00:08:38.975 And I initially, for some stupid reason, expected it was something to do in 00:08:38.975 --> 00:08:40.375 the networking stack or something like that. 00:08:40.475 --> 00:08:44.335 So I started looking into the differences in the networking stack thinking maybe 00:08:44.335 --> 00:08:48.175 BSD has some sort of optimization here. And it's like a, it's a connection. 00:08:48.335 --> 00:08:52.455 It's a TCP connection limit that I'm hitting on Linux. And BSD doesn't have that. 00:08:53.533 --> 00:08:57.973 And I dug into it, and it simply wasn't the case. And what I discovered after 00:08:57.973 --> 00:09:01.833 about two weeks of kind of coming back to the issue every couple of days, 00:09:01.833 --> 00:09:06.653 trying to figure it out and doing different testing, is that it was the Dell SCSI driver. 00:09:07.673 --> 00:09:09.453 And on Linux, there was just simply a bug. 00:09:10.513 --> 00:09:14.253 And on BSD, that version that they wrote for BSD didn't have the bug in the 00:09:14.253 --> 00:09:17.053 SCSI driver. And so it was affecting disk performance. 00:09:17.833 --> 00:09:20.493 but during that time i had and then i had to 00:09:20.493 --> 00:09:23.253 go i had it and it was working so i kept it and i left i 00:09:23.253 --> 00:09:25.993 left it running i went through a couple different upgrade cycles so i 00:09:25.993 --> 00:09:29.473 got to manage a free bsd box in production doing some 00:09:29.473 --> 00:09:34.393 samba and nfs file sharing stuff nothing too serious but you know probably eight 00:09:34.393 --> 00:09:39.693 nine hundred users concurrent and uh it was interesting and it was a really 00:09:39.693 --> 00:09:42.913 really solid system and it turned out the reason why it was all fast and better 00:09:42.913 --> 00:09:46.653 wasn't necessarily because of some crazy optimization they'd done, 00:09:46.753 --> 00:09:48.293 but just the differences in drivers. 00:09:48.473 --> 00:09:52.673 And inevitably, that problem was solved in a patch in Linux. 00:09:52.893 --> 00:09:55.373 And from that point forward, we just deployed Linux. 00:09:55.913 --> 00:10:01.733 Given that positive experience, I'm curious why you didn't kind of go down the 00:10:01.733 --> 00:10:03.453 FreeBSD road a lot further. 00:10:03.833 --> 00:10:06.813 You know, part of what we're going to get into today, I think, 00:10:06.933 --> 00:10:10.533 it affected me back then too, and it's still part of the issue. 00:10:10.913 --> 00:10:11.893 You know, time is precious. 00:10:12.913 --> 00:10:16.413 But let's get into that. So let's talk a little bit about the hardware you tried 00:10:16.413 --> 00:10:18.293 FreeBSD on so far and how it's going. 00:10:19.393 --> 00:10:19.773 Yeah. 00:10:21.813 --> 00:10:25.753 In setting up our little BSD battle station here at the studio, 00:10:26.353 --> 00:10:30.093 Chris, you and I just found whatever hardware was around and figured, 00:10:30.193 --> 00:10:31.133 hey, that's going to be fun. 00:10:31.253 --> 00:10:36.453 Let's try it. People go on podcasts and then people talk about it on social media. 00:10:37.273 --> 00:10:40.953 This is the little keyboard integrated Pi. 00:10:43.173 --> 00:10:46.573 and number one, I had never used this thing so I was excited to use the hardware 00:10:46.573 --> 00:10:49.213 but also I thought, hey, this is going to be an interesting little challenge, 00:10:50.473 --> 00:10:55.833 and a challenge it was a challenge it certainly was You know, I realized... 00:10:57.031 --> 00:11:03.411 How much we were starting at zero because i thought to myself i don't even know how you get, 00:11:04.011 --> 00:11:08.311 a free bsd image for raspberry pi is it an image file is it an iso like you 00:11:08.311 --> 00:11:12.771 can do with some linux distros you know like with susa and others or fedora 00:11:12.771 --> 00:11:22.411 it can just be like a standard linux install yeah which right Right. 00:11:25.011 --> 00:11:28.831 But then on top of that, like with Linux distributions, you just assume if it 00:11:28.831 --> 00:11:31.731 is an ISO with an installer, it's going to be a graphical installer. 00:11:31.851 --> 00:11:35.111 But then I realized, well, that's not necessarily the case with FreeBSD at all. 00:11:35.551 --> 00:11:40.111 And so I said, wow, we're really starting at zero here. So what was the image 00:11:40.111 --> 00:11:41.971 route? Was it a pre-made image? Was it an ISO? 00:11:42.251 --> 00:11:46.071 Well, they did have two options, actually. They had ARM ISOs that were more 00:11:46.071 --> 00:11:49.171 generic, but they did have Pi-specific images. 00:11:49.711 --> 00:11:52.771 And so I figured, well, I should probably go down that route. 00:11:53.331 --> 00:11:58.031 But I did try the ISOs first on a variety of different. We tried Ventoy. 00:11:58.191 --> 00:11:59.111 It didn't quite work for me. 00:11:59.251 --> 00:12:00.631 Yeah, Ventoy gave us like a boot loop. 00:12:00.911 --> 00:12:05.331 Oh, yeah. I mean, that's my personal experience with Ventoy every time I try 00:12:05.331 --> 00:12:07.211 it. But we're always trying weird things. 00:12:07.391 --> 00:12:10.731 That is like a two or three release behind version of Ventoy, too. 00:12:10.811 --> 00:12:11.531 Oh, well. 00:12:11.811 --> 00:12:13.811 Maybe newer versions are better with FreeBSD. 00:12:13.871 --> 00:12:15.551 Why does everybody always tell me that? And we get to start slacking off. 00:12:15.551 --> 00:12:16.031 And he goes to work. 00:12:16.051 --> 00:12:18.631 I'm trying Ventoy. Anyways, Ventoy has not worked great for me. 00:12:18.631 --> 00:12:21.311 although we hear in our community constantly that it's amazing. 00:12:21.731 --> 00:12:22.791 So Brent hates Ventoy. 00:12:22.951 --> 00:12:26.991 No, it's just the bug field, I think. I tried Ventoy with BDSDF. Brentoy. 00:12:27.951 --> 00:12:32.531 But that said, I tried a bunch of those routes and ended up trying the image, 00:12:33.271 --> 00:12:36.391 which also ended up locking up on boot for me. 00:12:36.531 --> 00:12:40.271 And I was surprised by that, because it specifically said on the image, 00:12:42.118 --> 00:12:45.838 raspberry pi 4 so i figured this would be pretty compatible so. 00:12:45.838 --> 00:12:50.138 It wasn't a pi 400 image but you shouldn't need one it should if it's a pi 4 00:12:50.138 --> 00:12:51.858 image it should work just fine on the 400. 00:12:51.858 --> 00:12:56.478 Because i ran into this does depend on your particular client which was a little 00:12:56.478 --> 00:13:01.378 uh disappointing i ended up needing to figure out how to get this thing worked 00:13:01.378 --> 00:13:05.778 because i wasn't going to give up at that point i was like on step one of our challenge so with. 00:13:05.778 --> 00:13:09.558 Freebsd where do you even begin to figure out did you go like re-release notes like what do you do. 00:13:09.558 --> 00:13:12.678 Well i ended up reaching 00:13:12.678 --> 00:13:15.538 out to um perplexity to 00:13:15.538 --> 00:13:19.638 say hey i don't know what i'm doing clearly the confidence i came into this 00:13:19.638 --> 00:13:26.058 thing with is all vanished and i need some help and i did discover just just 00:13:26.058 --> 00:13:33.538 like a few reports that a newer bsd version wasn't working on the pi 4 like. 00:13:33.538 --> 00:13:34.958 Just in like forms or whatnot you saw this. 00:13:34.958 --> 00:13:42.018 Yeah, what I read was that FreeBSD14 wasn't working and FreeBSD13 would work. 00:13:42.318 --> 00:13:44.958 Oh. And so I thought, okay, well, I'll give that a shot. 00:13:44.958 --> 00:13:46.058 So go back one release. 00:13:46.178 --> 00:13:48.718 A whole release. And I gave that a shot. Sure enough, it booted. 00:13:48.938 --> 00:13:50.678 Okay. So I was making progress. 00:13:51.758 --> 00:13:56.678 That said, I was trying 14.2 and there was a 14.1. 00:13:57.318 --> 00:14:03.398 So then I re-imaged and tried 14.1 and that worked. So it seems like 14.2 for 00:14:03.398 --> 00:14:06.598 me on the Pi 400, just locked up. 00:14:06.858 --> 00:14:13.338 But 14.1, sure enough, went through and booted, and I was able to get that working just fine. 00:14:13.658 --> 00:14:19.518 So at Boots, do things like graphics work and Ethernet and all of the standard 00:14:19.518 --> 00:14:21.958 stuff on the Pi? Did it all get detected and supported? 00:14:23.878 --> 00:14:24.738 Mix bag. 00:14:24.958 --> 00:14:25.378 Oh, really? 00:14:25.538 --> 00:14:26.038 Let's say. 00:14:26.778 --> 00:14:27.258 Okay. 00:14:27.878 --> 00:14:31.758 So it seems like Ethernet worked out of the box. I did have to, 00:14:31.758 --> 00:14:36.498 you know, turn it on and configure it. But I think that's pretty standard for FreeBSD. 00:14:37.278 --> 00:14:45.578 So that was nice. After that, the graphics were certainly in a safe mode, like massive fonts. 00:14:45.978 --> 00:14:48.898 Like 640 by 40 or 1024 by 768. 00:14:48.898 --> 00:14:52.598 I could work with it, but I knew if I was going to try to run a desktop on this, 00:14:52.678 --> 00:14:55.018 which I was, that that would likely be an issue. 00:14:55.098 --> 00:14:59.538 I bet you that must have been frame buffer mode. I think FreeBSD just uses frame buffer mode by default. 00:14:59.738 --> 00:14:59.978 Okay. 00:15:00.378 --> 00:15:00.578 Yeah. 00:15:02.518 --> 00:15:05.358 Well anyways it got working and i was excited by this 00:15:05.358 --> 00:15:08.098 point because like i had spent an hour and a half just trying to 00:15:08.098 --> 00:15:11.298 get the thing to boot that said it you know i don't have to install because 00:15:11.298 --> 00:15:15.578 i'm running an image so i didn't have to go through that install method right 00:15:15.578 --> 00:15:21.998 yeah oh i'm i'm realizing now that one of the points specifically says install 00:15:21.998 --> 00:15:25.738 bsc so maybe i disqualify myself from that yeah there's a lot of. 00:15:25.738 --> 00:15:28.798 Future room here yeah one of the things was I. 00:15:28.798 --> 00:15:31.998 Feel like we're going to end up with a giant checklist of all the things we 00:15:31.998 --> 00:15:33.298 forgot to do and we're going to have to do this week. 00:15:33.378 --> 00:15:35.338 I'm just going to do them all, so that's what I'm going to try to do. 00:15:35.718 --> 00:15:38.598 I don't want to run Windows really, really bad. I don't necessarily want to 00:15:38.598 --> 00:15:41.038 run FreeBSD either, but I don't want to run Windows even harder. 00:15:45.052 --> 00:15:51.452 I just, I feel like it haunts me, you know, in the distance I can hear, you know. 00:15:52.932 --> 00:15:53.752 So sweet. 00:15:54.332 --> 00:15:59.092 So you also, when you were experimenting with it, noticed performance was a 00:15:59.092 --> 00:15:59.892 little lackluster, right? 00:16:00.072 --> 00:16:05.752 Well, I got some help because I needed it, it seemed, on how to run this on the Pi. 00:16:06.212 --> 00:16:11.032 And there were a few specifics that seemed to be defaulting, 00:16:11.292 --> 00:16:14.912 you know, similar to the video, just defaulting to bass. 00:16:15.052 --> 00:16:17.952 and get it running, but this is not optimal. 00:16:18.232 --> 00:16:20.452 And one of those things was the CPU itself. 00:16:20.852 --> 00:16:25.252 It was just constrained to 600 megahertz and would just sit in there. 00:16:25.392 --> 00:16:26.732 That's it. That's all you get. 00:16:27.932 --> 00:16:32.352 So one of the configurations I had to make, which was fairly easy to do, 00:16:32.472 --> 00:16:37.472 but if you didn't know about this, then I think you'd feel really disappointed 00:16:37.472 --> 00:16:40.152 about the performance of your little Pi 400. 00:16:40.492 --> 00:16:44.392 So I was able to bump that up to like a reasonable CPU frequency, 00:16:44.392 --> 00:16:47.552 but it was just locked by default to 600. I'm not sure why. 00:16:47.992 --> 00:16:49.572 That was just like add to your RC.conf? 00:16:49.872 --> 00:16:53.112 Exactly, yeah. You can add a little, you know, you could just change your RC.conf 00:16:53.112 --> 00:16:57.092 and add, you know, pretty much triple the CPU frequencies in there. 00:16:58.012 --> 00:17:01.092 One thing that you had a problem with that I have not had a problem with, 00:17:01.152 --> 00:17:05.592 but I think it's because you're on ARM, Firefox just does not work for you. 00:17:06.072 --> 00:17:07.252 Well, it installs. 00:17:07.312 --> 00:17:10.152 Yeah, and it gives you a warning about a bunch of stuff that doesn't work. 00:17:10.152 --> 00:17:14.612 I got a massive list of off-by-default compatibility. 00:17:14.852 --> 00:17:18.512 So basically it said, well, if you're expecting Firefox to be like it is on 00:17:18.512 --> 00:17:19.772 Linux or Mac OS or Windows. 00:17:20.012 --> 00:17:22.552 It doesn't support any DRM video, so there's no Netflix. 00:17:22.832 --> 00:17:24.892 Yeah, you're actually not going to get a bunch of stuff. 00:17:25.072 --> 00:17:28.092 Obviously, there's no Wayland support. There's a lot of things. 00:17:28.312 --> 00:17:32.872 Honestly, my comment when I saw the list was, oof, it really feels like the 00:17:32.872 --> 00:17:34.732 world is not building for FreeBSD at all. 00:17:35.332 --> 00:17:37.352 Well, and to add insult to that, 00:17:38.532 --> 00:17:41.292 I could really only get it running for 10 seconds and then it would crash. 00:17:42.012 --> 00:17:44.672 Now that I did not. See, at least for me, I could browse the web and whatnot. 00:17:44.852 --> 00:17:47.252 I think it might be specific to the Pi itself. 00:17:47.392 --> 00:17:50.792 Yeah, maybe the ARM build on FreeBSD just isn't that stable yet. 00:17:50.892 --> 00:17:54.632 I do realize I'm pushing in a few different directions in this particular case. 00:17:55.632 --> 00:17:59.292 But no Firefox for me. I might try to solve that one just for fun, 00:17:59.392 --> 00:18:02.232 see what it is. But so far... 00:18:02.912 --> 00:18:06.812 Yeah, I wonder if you could go to Firefox and get their extended release build 00:18:06.812 --> 00:18:11.212 for ARM if they have one that would be for FreeBSD and try running that and see if that would... 00:18:13.560 --> 00:18:18.420 It does seem like FreeBSD tends to kind of default to older package releases, 00:18:18.420 --> 00:18:21.920 maybe because these things tend to be better accounted for. 00:18:24.140 --> 00:18:30.060 Yes, I would say my experience, at least up to this point, on the Pi 400 has been quite mixed. 00:18:30.220 --> 00:18:34.560 I'm learning some new things, and I'm also realizing a lot of stuff that I expect 00:18:34.560 --> 00:18:38.620 to just not even be an issue is turning out to be quite an issue, 00:18:38.660 --> 00:18:40.160 and I need to go solve those things. 00:18:40.380 --> 00:18:43.360 So, mixed. Very mixed for me. 00:18:43.560 --> 00:18:43.880 So far. 00:18:44.220 --> 00:18:44.540 Mm-hmm. 00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:45.740 Maybe next week will be better. 00:18:45.900 --> 00:18:46.500 I'm hoping. 00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:48.740 You can try it on Intel hardware or AMD hardware next week? 00:18:48.740 --> 00:18:51.560 Well, I figured it would probably be a good idea to try my framework, 00:18:51.560 --> 00:18:55.640 given they've been doing some work on modern laptops, trying to get that all running. 00:18:55.900 --> 00:18:59.000 So I thought maybe that would be a good place to go next week for me. 00:18:59.580 --> 00:19:04.200 So I don't think any of us so far have tried FreeBSD with a multi-monter setup, 00:19:04.260 --> 00:19:05.880 have we? Have you, Brent? 00:19:06.380 --> 00:19:06.700 No. 00:19:06.940 --> 00:19:11.660 No, I haven't either. And I'm wondering, I'd like to know from the audience, 00:19:11.660 --> 00:19:14.920 It's boosting and tell us, are you using a multi-monitor setup or a single screen? 00:19:15.120 --> 00:19:18.380 Tell us a little bit about your setup because I kind of want to know what the 00:19:18.380 --> 00:19:20.240 audience's position on the monitor setup thing. 00:19:20.300 --> 00:19:24.200 And if this is something we should be testing or not, I mean, I'd like to know. 00:19:24.380 --> 00:19:28.020 I remember in Linux, it was a little bit of a problem years ago and has become 00:19:28.020 --> 00:19:29.660 way better. I don't even think about it now. 00:19:29.780 --> 00:19:31.680 I didn't even think about it until I was thinking, yeah, we're all trying these 00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:34.620 on single screens. But maybe that's what most of the audience would be running 00:19:34.620 --> 00:19:37.000 it on. So maybe that makes sense to test there. 00:19:37.460 --> 00:19:38.800 But should they is the question. 00:19:39.220 --> 00:19:40.180 Yeah. So you're... 00:19:47.220 --> 00:19:52.600 yeah that sounds perfect i wonder how our audience skews so boosting and tell us, 00:19:53.180 --> 00:19:56.840 so okay you're on a good path you're not totally secured yet from having to 00:19:56.840 --> 00:20:01.180 run windows especially if you have a bad time i don't know for extra fun you 00:20:01.180 --> 00:20:03.960 might try it on the Atari VCS. 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:07.920 You just want to see me suffer. 00:20:09.020 --> 00:20:16.720 I do. Now, Wes, do I see a Windows desktop in your future? How is your BSD challenge going? 00:20:17.420 --> 00:20:19.200 I do. Very badly, actually. 00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:44.220 No, I think... 00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:44.840 Oh, yeah? 00:20:47.820 --> 00:20:48.800 What piqued your interest? 00:20:52.260 --> 00:20:54.200 Yeah. How it all works. 00:20:57.180 --> 00:20:58.240 I agree. I do agree. 00:21:01.980 --> 00:21:07.080 Yeah. 00:22:23.748 --> 00:22:26.768 Oh, that's where I thought you were going. I love it. 00:22:27.008 --> 00:22:28.168 How did he sneak that in? 00:22:28.308 --> 00:22:32.048 I knew it. I had a sense it was going to get worked in somewhere. I felt it coming. 00:22:33.328 --> 00:22:34.448 Well, I was curious. 00:22:47.268 --> 00:22:51.328 Right. I could imagine. That seems right up your alley. 00:23:06.728 --> 00:23:12.368 My my impression of the installer was it felt very utilitarian utilitarian what 00:23:12.368 --> 00:23:16.428 am i trying to say like utilitarian yes thank you like it felt like a professional 00:23:16.428 --> 00:23:23.008 tool like you know not really something that's even trying to aim at a brand new user, 00:23:23.008 --> 00:23:26.868 but a brand new user who's maybe following some documentation could definitely still work through it. 00:23:36.028 --> 00:23:39.248 But when I was using it, I was thinking I bet Wes likes this. Did you like it? 00:24:22.944 --> 00:24:27.144 Yeah, I loved it, too. I thought, look at this. It's exposing some great options 00:24:27.144 --> 00:24:30.304 that are just common sense security precautions that you might want to set on 00:24:30.304 --> 00:24:32.104 a brand new system right there. 00:24:32.244 --> 00:24:35.184 And I think you probably also noticed ZFS is just front and center. 00:24:35.264 --> 00:24:37.324 It only took me 500 episodes to convince you. 00:24:57.664 --> 00:24:58.664 I like that. 00:25:07.404 --> 00:25:08.984 Yeah. Yeah. 00:25:20.444 --> 00:25:24.484 Yeah, I'll have a comment on that too, but before I get to my bit, 00:25:24.644 --> 00:25:29.484 I'm curious if either of you have tried ports yet and saw anything from the ports tree? 00:25:29.644 --> 00:25:32.064 Yeah, no, a Thomas knows, like, backy in or anything. 00:25:58.804 --> 00:25:59.984 Yeah, for sure. Right, right. 00:26:06.864 --> 00:26:10.404 Yeah, a core set of stuff is in the repo in the native package manager and then, 00:26:10.404 --> 00:26:12.824 you know, AUR equivalent with the ports. 00:26:18.544 --> 00:26:22.104 It's nice to have it just on the file system. You can just browse the file system and see your options. 00:26:24.224 --> 00:26:27.844 I did run into issues that I want to mention for anyone trying this. 00:26:28.344 --> 00:26:33.284 I did try to just install some stuff and ran to some certificate errors, 00:26:33.324 --> 00:26:38.084 which ended up being just a time clock synchronization issue for me. 00:26:38.084 --> 00:26:40.644 It took me a really long time to figure out that was the deal. 00:26:40.764 --> 00:26:44.464 So I just enabled NTP and got my clock back up and running. Everything worked fine. 00:26:44.644 --> 00:26:48.604 But I wasted a ton of time on that. So that's your PSA in case you run into that. 00:26:53.984 --> 00:26:54.824 What? What? 00:27:00.496 --> 00:27:01.996 Did I take the hard method? 00:27:02.316 --> 00:27:04.176 Yeah, because I did that. I turned that on. 00:27:04.776 --> 00:27:08.596 Yeah, I did too. You guys didn't tell me anything about this. 00:27:08.796 --> 00:27:10.676 I was like, sure, why wouldn't I? Why wouldn't I want? 00:27:12.796 --> 00:27:19.896 I expected my path to be easy mode. I thought I was taking the easy hack because 00:27:19.896 --> 00:27:27.536 I took an old B-Link and it's all Intel. It's like, you know, a laptop from years ago. 00:27:27.936 --> 00:27:33.616 And I thought, this is going to be a slam dunk. Intel CPU, old Intel video, Intel Nick. 00:27:34.396 --> 00:27:37.676 This thing's going to boot right up. Everything's going to work out of the box. 00:27:37.916 --> 00:27:40.116 I'm going to start checking off and earning points right away. 00:27:43.196 --> 00:27:44.976 He gave me the pie for him. 00:27:45.016 --> 00:27:51.356 So I sat down at the BSD bench with Brent, where he and I have everything set 00:27:51.356 --> 00:27:55.356 up there, and Brent's nicely... Have we talked about that? Yeah. You like the bench? 00:27:55.436 --> 00:27:58.396 There is very much of a BSD bench. It's our battle station. 00:27:58.576 --> 00:28:03.856 Guys. The BSD battle station bench with Brent is what it is. Yeah. 00:28:04.216 --> 00:28:07.956 And it's great because we have like Ethernet ready there with a switch and power 00:28:07.956 --> 00:28:09.996 so we can hook up different stuff and HDMI and the monitors. 00:28:10.176 --> 00:28:11.776 Just plug a machine and try it. 00:28:13.416 --> 00:28:17.316 And so the first thing I went to was easy mode B-Link. It was a long week. 00:28:17.396 --> 00:28:19.476 And I thought, okay, I just, I want to win. I want to win. 00:28:22.036 --> 00:28:28.076 And it did boot. It didn't really do much else than that out of the box. 00:28:28.076 --> 00:28:31.096 I was surprised really how much there was to do. 00:28:31.916 --> 00:28:34.776 But, you know, so I bailed on the live environment pretty quickly. 00:28:34.876 --> 00:28:39.396 And I just went over to the installer image that boots, and I chose the installer option. 00:28:39.716 --> 00:28:42.176 And I really, like you, Wes, I really do like the installer. 00:28:42.436 --> 00:28:45.756 It's really just a nice utility to get the job done. 00:28:46.376 --> 00:28:49.796 And the options around ZFS integration were really slick. 00:28:50.536 --> 00:28:53.176 And the options around, like, do you want to start these particular things or 00:28:53.176 --> 00:28:55.536 secure these types of things? I just, I like that since it's coming in, 00:28:55.736 --> 00:28:57.496 you know, I'm coming in fresh. It also felt. 00:29:19.923 --> 00:29:25.323 It felt classical while also still feeling like it's a maintained piece of software. Yeah. 00:29:26.143 --> 00:29:29.883 And, you know, I love a good in-curses interface, even if it's not technically in-curses. 00:29:29.883 --> 00:29:32.983 I feel like you had some muscle memory on this one. I was over your shoulder 00:29:32.983 --> 00:29:37.543 watching you go through this install process, and you were zooming through it in a way that I... 00:29:37.543 --> 00:29:42.743 It is very reminiscent to the installer back in the FreeBSD 789 era. 00:29:42.903 --> 00:29:44.923 I mean, it just does more stuff, and yeah. 00:29:45.423 --> 00:29:46.783 It was very much like, oh, yeah, I've seen this before. Let me send them a bunch 00:29:46.783 --> 00:29:50.143 of new infrastructure so I can spend the money. I like that aspect of it. 00:29:50.283 --> 00:29:54.723 So I was able to get FreeBSD 14.2 booting because I was going the Intel route. 00:29:54.783 --> 00:29:56.943 So I didn't have any issues there. I think 600,000, but then maybe some of these 00:29:56.943 --> 00:29:58.243 extra boosts kind of tallied up. 00:29:58.323 --> 00:30:05.183 After it was done installing, I kind of immediately was like, well, what do I do now? 00:30:05.423 --> 00:30:08.443 What is the first thing you do with a blank BSD system? 00:30:08.443 --> 00:30:12.763 When you go to FreeBSD route, you just get a terminal. You get a TTY. 00:30:13.203 --> 00:30:16.303 There's nothing else going on. But we had another issue with missing metadata. 00:30:16.723 --> 00:30:16.823 Well, let's go install Plasma. 00:30:16.823 --> 00:30:17.803 So we're going to investigate that. 00:30:17.883 --> 00:30:21.023 See if it might be an upstream LSP issue. If you want to jump through a split. 00:30:21.703 --> 00:30:22.843 Just not the message. 00:30:23.363 --> 00:30:25.143 Plasma 5 is still where we're at. It's still on X1. 00:30:25.283 --> 00:30:28.643 So we got 327,170 sats. 00:30:29.983 --> 00:30:34.683 But it doesn't include things like, you know, SDDM and other things like that 00:30:34.683 --> 00:30:36.783 that you kind of actually need to go into a full graphics. 00:30:36.783 --> 00:30:38.603 Now, that was going to be a more reasonable 65K. So thankfully, 00:30:38.703 --> 00:30:39.703 pretty easy to look that stuff up. 00:30:39.863 --> 00:30:41.443 So I do the old package install and install all that stuff. 00:30:41.443 --> 00:30:43.083 Not sure if it's working means... 00:30:43.083 --> 00:30:51.663 And like a total Linux user, I reboot the system, and I just expect it's going to boot into X. 00:30:53.083 --> 00:30:58.383 Right? Because if I've implicitly installed the meta package and SDDM or whatever, 00:30:58.783 --> 00:31:00.863 like, probably want that to the start. 00:31:01.043 --> 00:31:01.323 Probably. 00:31:01.723 --> 00:31:07.403 And a Linux package manager, you know, in the BSD parlance, you go from init 00:31:07.403 --> 00:31:10.303 3 and you install your graphical desktop, and now you're on init run level 5, 00:31:10.403 --> 00:31:13.783 right? Like, and it just, that's what I expected BSD to do. 00:31:14.303 --> 00:31:16.803 It does not. It just boots right back to the TTY. 00:31:17.643 --> 00:31:21.323 Because then you still have to do quite a bit of manual configuration in, 00:31:21.403 --> 00:31:25.403 you know, a couple of places like rc.conf to actually start everything, 00:31:25.603 --> 00:31:27.783 like all the D bus stuff you need around there. 00:31:27.903 --> 00:31:32.423 And there's quite a few manual commands I had to run to get all that stuff talking 00:31:32.423 --> 00:31:33.563 and get those services started. 00:31:33.563 --> 00:31:38.743 So you very quickly get familiar with the FreeBSD services command and how to 00:31:38.743 --> 00:31:43.083 start and stop and how to add things using the sysrc command or whatever it 00:31:43.083 --> 00:31:44.603 is to add things to rc.conf. 00:31:45.143 --> 00:31:49.163 And so you go through and you just kind of trial by error, figure out the bits that are missing. 00:31:49.463 --> 00:31:56.123 And this is where I noticed a trend around the LLMs that I wanted to follow up with you, Wes, is... 00:31:57.248 --> 00:32:04.148 For getting things going, like a graphical desktop environment or jails, an LLM sucks. 00:32:05.928 --> 00:32:09.188 Because in the Linux world, you can just, you know, install this command. 00:32:09.388 --> 00:32:11.848 And when you install that command, there's a package script or whatever it is, 00:32:11.928 --> 00:32:14.668 and it invokes the service, and all those things are done for you. 00:32:14.748 --> 00:32:17.448 And the LLM doesn't need to also tell you, by the way, you're going to need 00:32:17.448 --> 00:32:20.148 to install dbus, you're going to have to run these three dbus commands, 00:32:20.268 --> 00:32:22.748 you're going to have to add this dbus service to rc.com, then you're going to 00:32:22.748 --> 00:32:23.648 have to set that thing to start. 00:32:23.728 --> 00:32:25.588 And then, oh, by the way, you're probably going to want to start it right away. 00:32:26.148 --> 00:32:27.388 The LLM doesn't tell you any of that stuff. 00:32:27.968 --> 00:32:30.428 Where guides that are written by human beings do. 00:32:31.068 --> 00:32:35.108 But what the LLM is really good at is specific commands. Like, 00:32:35.188 --> 00:32:37.848 I want to do XYZ. What's the command on FreeBSD for that? 00:32:37.988 --> 00:32:44.668 Like, getting real narrow specific stuff, having something like perplexity makes 00:32:44.668 --> 00:32:50.128 transitioning to FreeBSD so much easier than it would have been a couple of 00:32:50.128 --> 00:32:51.448 years ago. It's bonkers. 00:32:51.628 --> 00:32:56.228 It's just so much better. but it absolutely misses the context around like dependencies 00:32:56.228 --> 00:32:59.288 and all that stuff where how to guide still really nice. 00:32:59.748 --> 00:33:02.868 I agree with that completely in my experience. How was your experience with 00:33:02.868 --> 00:33:05.628 troubleshooting using LLMs? 00:33:06.048 --> 00:33:10.168 Pretty decent. You know, I mean, honestly pretty decent. I think it might be 00:33:10.168 --> 00:33:15.528 an easier target for LLMs because BSD just doesn't change at the rate Linux does. 00:33:16.048 --> 00:33:19.408 And so, you know, when these things got locked in a couple of years ago with 00:33:19.408 --> 00:33:22.088 their base knowledge, that it's essentially the same stuff. 00:33:22.688 --> 00:33:28.448 So it's still valid. Where with Linux, sometimes I'm getting stuff for Nix that isn't valid anymore. 00:33:28.608 --> 00:33:30.328 Yeah, at least one of us should. I think that's a good idea. 00:33:30.328 --> 00:33:31.108 I think that's another system. 00:33:52.790 --> 00:33:55.050 How do I integrate this into the rest of the game? Yeah, perhaps. 00:33:56.010 --> 00:34:00.490 Maybe I'll talk about this next week, but it was particularly glaringly obvious 00:34:00.490 --> 00:34:01.930 in trying to get Podman working. 00:34:02.210 --> 00:34:06.330 It was really where it became like, oh, this is only giving me a small slice of the picture. 00:34:11.710 --> 00:34:12.670 Yeah, yeah. 00:34:20.550 --> 00:34:24.950 Yeah, definitely. So the other thing I was kind of surprised about is, 00:34:25.110 --> 00:34:27.250 you know, after you go through the process of installing sound, 00:34:27.450 --> 00:34:31.790 again, you can have the sound devices show up, but you can't play sound. 00:34:32.610 --> 00:34:35.230 I didn't expect this. I didn't expect to be able to see the volume levels, 00:34:35.370 --> 00:34:39.250 see all the sound devices, but I actually had to go into rc.conf and actually 00:34:39.250 --> 00:34:42.650 say play sound before sound would actually work on those devices. 00:34:43.110 --> 00:34:44.410 I was kind of surprised by that. 00:34:46.910 --> 00:34:53.730 I am really glad, though, that I took the FreeBSD route first so I could get 00:34:53.730 --> 00:34:58.090 the idea of what it's like to build up a modern Plasma desktop and get to a 00:34:58.090 --> 00:34:59.230 functional Plasma desktop. 00:34:59.250 --> 00:35:02.070 Tomato comes in with 22,000. 00:35:02.070 --> 00:35:05.710 I think next week one of the things I want to do is I want to try what that path is like now. 00:35:07.910 --> 00:35:11.290 I'm excited for you lads to do a FreeBSD challenge. 00:35:11.490 --> 00:35:12.070 But as a server. 00:35:12.390 --> 00:35:16.310 FreeBSD assumes less is more. I run NetBSD on some of my servers, 00:35:16.610 --> 00:35:18.890 but I haven't given free a try at all. 00:35:18.990 --> 00:35:19.690 Yeah, it makes sense. 00:35:19.830 --> 00:35:22.470 I was also glad to hear Chris made the connection with Nix OS. 00:35:22.910 --> 00:35:27.110 I mean, as someone who's been using Linux and BSD since the 90s, 00:35:27.230 --> 00:35:31.430 the central point of configuration was a nice familiar feature of Nix. 00:35:31.950 --> 00:35:35.490 I wish I could have organized a local meetup for 600, but everything's coming first. 00:35:35.490 --> 00:35:39.510 Yeah, like some distributions, most of them go way too far in that direction. 00:35:42.546 --> 00:35:49.606 OnePassword.com slash unplugged. That's all lowercase. It's the number one password.com slash unplugged. 00:35:49.866 --> 00:35:54.946 Okay, I have a question for you. Do your end users always, and I mean always 00:35:54.946 --> 00:35:58.686 without exception, work on company-owned devices and IT-approved apps? 00:35:58.966 --> 00:36:03.126 I don't think so. I don't think it's possible. So I think the next natural question 00:36:03.126 --> 00:36:06.406 is, how do you keep your company's data safe when it's sitting in all those 00:36:06.406 --> 00:36:08.466 unmanaged apps and devices? 00:36:09.106 --> 00:36:13.586 Well, OnePassword has the answer to this question. It's extended access management. 00:36:14.126 --> 00:36:19.026 1Password extended access management. It helps you secure every sign-in for 00:36:19.026 --> 00:36:21.526 every app on every device because 00:36:21.526 --> 00:36:25.786 it solves problems that traditional IAMs and MDMs just can't touch. 00:36:25.986 --> 00:36:29.466 And it's also bundling 1Password. You know 1Password. 00:36:29.586 --> 00:36:32.926 We've all had those situations where we've seen the passwords under the keyboard. 00:36:33.626 --> 00:36:37.106 We're stuck to the monitor, or somebody uses the same password everywhere. 00:36:37.246 --> 00:36:40.586 You think, God, if they just had a great password manager that would solve all of this. 00:36:40.986 --> 00:36:44.366 Well, 1Password's award-winning password manager is trusted by millions of users, 00:36:44.786 --> 00:36:46.606 150,000-plus businesses from 00:36:46.606 --> 00:36:50.126 IBM to Slack, and now they're doing more than just securing passwords. 00:36:50.386 --> 00:36:52.946 Now with extended access management, they're taking it to the next level. 00:36:53.166 --> 00:36:58.766 Plus, 1Password is ISO 27001 certified, and they have regular third-party audits, 00:36:58.786 --> 00:37:00.666 and they have the largest bug bounty out there. 00:37:00.726 --> 00:37:03.526 They just exceed the standards set by everybody else. 00:37:03.946 --> 00:37:07.106 Secure every app and every identity, even the unmanaged ones. 00:37:07.106 --> 00:37:10.826 Go to 1password.com slash unplugged. That's all lowercase. 00:37:11.166 --> 00:37:17.266 Again, support the show, check it out, and try it out. It's 1password.com slash unplugged. 00:37:20.206 --> 00:37:23.366 Well, given we're all in the studio together this last week, 00:37:23.366 --> 00:37:25.506 we have some excitement. 00:37:25.686 --> 00:37:29.866 We're quite excited about Planet Nix and do have some things in the works in the background. 00:37:29.866 --> 00:37:34.726 Yeah, I've been cooking and I've been talking to the good folks over at Phlox 00:37:34.726 --> 00:37:40.646 to see if they can make it possible for us to get down to cover Planet Nix and things are lining up. 00:37:40.766 --> 00:37:45.126 And so I think we're going to be able to take our coverage up to a whole other level this year. 00:37:45.366 --> 00:37:49.086 And it's really because of Phlox. So I'm going to tell you more about that as 00:37:49.086 --> 00:37:53.206 we get closer, but we wanted to just get this event in front of you so you know 00:37:53.206 --> 00:37:55.566 what's going on. So we wanted to bring Zach on the show. 00:37:59.266 --> 00:38:02.126 well zach mitchell is joining us on the show 00:38:02.126 --> 00:38:08.126 for the third time he's in a rare guest club really and zach is a software engineer 00:38:08.126 --> 00:38:13.446 who's building reproducible software at flox and he's here to talk about planet 00:38:13.446 --> 00:38:19.266 nix like we've mentioned kicks off march 6th through the 7th in pasadena california, 00:38:19.785 --> 00:38:20.645 Zach, welcome back. 00:38:20.865 --> 00:38:26.885 Thank you for having me. I feel honored to be in such a prestigious club of return guests. 00:38:27.185 --> 00:38:30.165 The third guest tier. Yeah, that's pretty great. 00:38:30.325 --> 00:38:36.205 And the reason why we like having you on is because we're always very excited about big Nix events. 00:38:36.305 --> 00:38:41.425 And we kind of have a fresh start with Planet Nix. Give me the layout. What's happening? 00:38:41.785 --> 00:38:45.385 Yeah. So this is a Nix conference. 00:38:45.665 --> 00:38:48.965 Hey, guys. Thanks for discussing my posts. Nix, death by a thousand cuts. 00:38:48.965 --> 00:38:50.865 This is laid out for our spread out over two days. 00:38:50.885 --> 00:38:53.385 Coming up more these days and we're going to have two tracks going. 00:38:53.565 --> 00:38:55.425 Including from multiple C-suite folks. 00:38:55.425 --> 00:38:58.225 Both days, you're going to have a mix of talks and workshops. 00:38:58.425 --> 00:38:59.485 Clearly, y'all have drank the Nix cool. 00:38:59.485 --> 00:39:00.345 At the end of the first day. 00:39:00.465 --> 00:39:03.725 We have lightning talks. This is why I use Nix everywhere. 00:39:03.885 --> 00:39:06.245 But this article was very focused on desktops. 00:39:06.825 --> 00:39:10.245 Nix is great on the server, but are you guys using Nix all day. 00:39:10.345 --> 00:39:11.805 Every day on the desktop? 00:39:12.145 --> 00:39:16.345 For my work, I regularly get pulled and compile open source projects from many languages. 00:39:16.745 --> 00:39:20.145 I think the story for server production I just kind of put up a whiteboard and 00:39:20.145 --> 00:39:20.945 I should highlight that fact. 00:39:21.345 --> 00:39:24.565 I get the sense that maybe Wes uses it daily and perhaps is your local flake 00:39:24.565 --> 00:39:26.005 guru who likes to dig deep on solutions. 00:39:26.005 --> 00:39:29.605 And then we have kind of a voting process to see like what groups we break out into. 00:39:29.725 --> 00:39:33.405 This is really better as a conversation and I'm working on a follow-up blog post. 00:39:33.585 --> 00:39:35.205 So I won't rebut each point here. 00:39:35.245 --> 00:39:39.085 But I will agree with you that comparing Nix to traditional Nix is really comparing 00:39:39.085 --> 00:39:42.745 happens to approaches. They are different beats and really provide different features. 00:39:42.745 --> 00:39:46.465 You get a bunch of nerds you want to talk about one very specific thing. 00:39:46.465 --> 00:39:49.945 See you in March. You can kind of congregate and have dedicated time to go talk 00:39:49.945 --> 00:39:52.245 about that. We'll have some tables set up. 00:39:52.445 --> 00:39:57.045 How this is exactly going to work is still kind of being figured out. 00:39:57.145 --> 00:39:58.605 Like the details are still being finalized. 00:39:58.785 --> 00:40:03.565 But we'll have some space for kind of community projects to set up a table, 00:40:03.565 --> 00:40:08.525 talk to people who want to either get involved or learn about it, stuff like that. 00:40:08.725 --> 00:40:14.845 So we'll have a lot of space for the community to kind of self-organize or talk 00:40:14.845 --> 00:40:19.325 about whatever they want to talk about. in addition to all the talks and workshops 00:40:19.325 --> 00:40:20.425 and stuff that we have set up. 00:40:21.372 --> 00:40:23.152 But yeah, so I'm really excited about that. 00:40:23.332 --> 00:40:28.332 As a Nix user, I have the strong sense that there's a need for a community event like this. 00:40:28.412 --> 00:40:31.432 I feel like there's a lot of people excited about this idea. 00:40:31.672 --> 00:40:36.852 And being right alongside scale really worked well last year. 00:40:37.112 --> 00:40:42.112 And tell me a little bit about like there's like a combo there that you can do, right? 00:40:42.172 --> 00:40:45.672 Where you could be like a planet Nixer and go to scale combo pack. 00:40:45.672 --> 00:40:53.312 Yeah i i believe if you buy a scale pass that gets you into planet nix automatically 00:40:53.312 --> 00:40:58.992 there's also i think an expo pass but i think that's a separate thing so i'd 00:40:58.992 --> 00:41:02.952 have to get back to you about specifically whether that's correct if. 00:41:02.952 --> 00:41:07.892 Somebody's just doing planet nix do they need to get a independent planet nix pass. 00:41:07.892 --> 00:41:12.412 I think that's actually just part of the scale pass scale so So you just get scale. Okay. 00:41:13.092 --> 00:41:13.512 All right. 00:41:13.612 --> 00:41:15.192 Yeah. And I'll follow up if that's not correct. 00:41:15.752 --> 00:41:19.032 Okay. Well, we'll put links in the show notes if it's, if it's, if it's otherwise. 00:41:19.892 --> 00:41:23.972 I'm, I don't know. I'm, I'm not really even sure exactly what I'm looking forward to. 00:41:24.332 --> 00:41:28.032 I think it's like meeting people, you know, getting to know people that are 00:41:28.032 --> 00:41:31.092 doing things and changing things in the Knicks community. 00:41:31.192 --> 00:41:34.492 And I looked at some of the presentations, obviously attending some of those 00:41:34.492 --> 00:41:37.872 is going to be a big part, but will you have a sense of what you're looking forward to Wes? 00:41:55.832 --> 00:41:56.832 Always should have been. 00:41:56.832 --> 00:42:01.652 Yeah yeah yeah yes that was awesome, 00:42:04.892 --> 00:42:09.912 definitely definitely i feel like too we're going in knowing we have a little 00:42:09.912 --> 00:42:13.312 bit different sense of what to expect, I think, because last year was totally 00:42:13.312 --> 00:42:14.552 a whole new concept to us. 00:42:14.892 --> 00:42:19.972 So we're going to come in with a bit of an idea of how to get going to compile up and trust projects. 00:42:20.172 --> 00:42:22.492 Zach, I imagine that's just kind of true for Planet Nix in general. 00:42:22.552 --> 00:42:25.592 There must be some lessons learned that are getting applied to Planet Nix. 00:42:25.752 --> 00:42:28.772 I think as a DevOps. 00:42:28.772 --> 00:42:33.372 Sysadmin, developer desktop, that might be one area where it's kind of the hardest 00:42:33.372 --> 00:42:38.972 if you're not also like a Nix developer to meet the expectations that you have 00:42:38.972 --> 00:42:43.272 from a different she was sending signs from scale on the scale side. 00:42:43.472 --> 00:42:47.792 And so we didn't quite have signs set up. And so people didn't quite know where to check in. 00:42:48.312 --> 00:42:52.732 And there's also a little bit of a shortage of volunteers at the very beginning. 00:42:52.732 --> 00:42:56.292 So we were just kind of grabbing people and saying, okay, you're helping people check in now. 00:42:56.472 --> 00:43:00.532 And I think one attendee brought their girlfriend with them. 00:43:01.072 --> 00:43:05.452 And I don't think she quite knew what this all was, but she ended up being one 00:43:05.452 --> 00:43:09.752 of the people setting up or like checking people in at the tables. Oh, that's great. 00:43:10.032 --> 00:43:11.112 And without some of the- While awesome. 00:43:11.412 --> 00:43:13.752 I would prefer if we have things a little bit more nailed down. 00:43:13.972 --> 00:43:15.932 That's one of the things that we've figured out this year. 00:43:16.645 --> 00:43:22.025 Yeah, the submission process for the program and stuff like that was basically the same. 00:43:22.445 --> 00:43:28.585 Then I think went pretty smoothly. We doubled the amount of talk and workshop slots. 00:43:29.285 --> 00:43:31.625 We're doing two tracks over two days this time. 00:43:31.825 --> 00:43:32.105 Wow. 00:43:32.605 --> 00:43:36.825 Whenever you make that commitment to have twice the... 00:43:36.825 --> 00:43:38.265 It's a lot of organizing. 00:43:38.625 --> 00:43:44.705 Yeah. So you commit to having twice as many slots to fill. And you kind of wonder 00:43:44.705 --> 00:43:48.865 like, okay, is there going to be enough interest to fill all these slots? 00:43:49.385 --> 00:43:52.065 And the answer was unequivocally yes. 00:43:52.725 --> 00:43:56.325 Good. So like that all, yeah, that all went very smoothly. I was really happy 00:43:56.325 --> 00:44:00.565 with that. I'm really happy with our talk lineup. We have a lot of talks and workshops. 00:44:00.905 --> 00:44:04.625 I'm really excited to see personally some of these talks. 00:44:04.625 --> 00:44:11.485 And so as one of the organizers, I will like have to force myself to pass the 00:44:11.485 --> 00:44:14.945 baton to somebody so I can go watch talks and stuff like that. 00:44:15.065 --> 00:44:17.205 Otherwise, I'll just be in organizer mode the whole time. 00:44:21.045 --> 00:44:21.965 Yeah, yeah. 00:44:25.215 --> 00:44:29.895 I tend to oversubscribe myself, but it's always like kind of for something fun. 00:44:30.995 --> 00:44:35.495 So like, yeah, last time I was kind of running around like mad because like 00:44:35.495 --> 00:44:38.955 I said, the ground game was not quite as figured out as it will be this year. 00:44:39.135 --> 00:44:41.395 There's always something. It does get better every year. 00:44:41.475 --> 00:44:44.455 Yeah. I was hearing about this setup. And yeah, it seems like it's working. 00:44:44.455 --> 00:44:44.955 And you're always trying something new too. 00:44:45.015 --> 00:44:46.755 It's a nice setup. 00:44:47.095 --> 00:44:49.475 Every time we do this, there's a chance to kind of do it better. 00:44:49.475 --> 00:44:53.575 Well i think the only question i have is we were doing can i count on you to 00:44:53.575 --> 00:44:59.435 uh you know give us the hookup on the great after parties and places to go after 00:44:59.435 --> 00:45:02.715 that you know each day that's can i can i count on you for that zach you. 00:45:02.715 --> 00:45:03.835 Can absolutely which works. 00:45:03.835 --> 00:45:06.455 Especially well if you know you want a full yeah last year. 00:45:06.455 --> 00:45:09.655 We had some disc requirements kind of like an off-site karaoke thing neat. 00:45:09.655 --> 00:45:11.235 Oh my goodness really yeah. 00:45:11.235 --> 00:45:12.435 That was that was. 00:45:12.435 --> 00:45:15.795 Pretty fun if you have any ice spring skating with 5 000 I'm in. 00:45:16.055 --> 00:45:16.775 I'm definitely in. 00:45:17.335 --> 00:45:18.115 Congrats on success. 00:45:18.115 --> 00:45:21.575 So speaking of ice sports and things that are popular in Canada. 00:45:21.815 --> 00:45:23.155 I recently picked up Curling. 00:45:23.295 --> 00:45:24.755 So I've been curling for the last year. 00:45:25.455 --> 00:45:25.995 Uh-oh. 00:45:26.115 --> 00:45:27.655 I hate throwing out stuff that works. 00:45:27.655 --> 00:45:28.535 Well, we can be friends then. 00:45:28.555 --> 00:45:32.315 My laptop is 10 years old and my mom is still happily using the one that I had before that. 00:45:32.915 --> 00:45:35.095 All right, Zach, well, we'll let you go and see if you enjoy the rest of your 00:45:35.095 --> 00:45:37.755 Sunday, but thanks for coming on and giving us the updates. Good to chat with you again. 00:45:37.875 --> 00:45:38.915 Yeah, I'm really excited to see you all out there. 00:45:39.235 --> 00:45:43.595 I'll see you all of these days. If I could do all my sensitive stuff like banking 00:45:43.595 --> 00:45:47.375 on my computer, I wouldn't really have to worry so much if I just stuck with the bits of class. 00:45:47.375 --> 00:45:50.695 You know, we are going to bring you the best Planet Nix coverage possible. 00:45:51.095 --> 00:45:54.595 Thank you again to Zach for joining us. Also, keep it on your radar. 00:45:54.955 --> 00:45:58.675 If you can't make it to Planet Nix, maybe you can make it to LinuxFest Northwest, 00:45:59.555 --> 00:46:03.455 April 25th through the 27th in the beautiful Bellingham, Washington. 00:46:04.055 --> 00:46:09.555 Once again, at the Bellingham Technical College, 25 years of LinuxFest Northwest. 00:46:10.055 --> 00:46:12.135 You know, your boys are going to be there. Whoop! 00:46:12.615 --> 00:46:13.015 Heck yeah. 00:46:13.015 --> 00:46:19.095 So we'd love to see you there. And you can get information at linuxfestnorthwest.org. 00:46:19.555 --> 00:46:22.495 Oh, and look at you, Wes Payne, on the website. 00:46:23.175 --> 00:46:24.795 Wes Payne on the website. 00:46:25.815 --> 00:46:27.835 Really? What's your talk about? 00:46:35.515 --> 00:46:39.495 If you want to just come say hi, come check it out. You know what? 00:46:39.535 --> 00:46:41.975 We always have something going on, and we'll have more plans coming up soon. 00:46:42.275 --> 00:46:45.895 But right now, we're going to get laser-focused on Planet Nix. 00:46:51.395 --> 00:46:54.755 Well, we did receive some amazing boosts last week. Thank you to everyone who 00:46:54.755 --> 00:46:59.315 boosted episode 600. And we certainly are starting with a baller. 00:46:59.755 --> 00:47:02.515 That's right. Our baller booster this week is a mania. Well, 00:47:02.515 --> 00:47:05.355 I'll send it to Brent here. I've got my initial Matt. 00:47:06.615 --> 00:47:09.195 I gave you a slack. 00:47:09.195 --> 00:47:14.575 Coming in with 600 thousand sats Oh my god, 00:47:16.875 --> 00:47:24.235 Yes Yes he wanted to send 600 for episode 600 thanks for all the shows and he 00:47:24.235 --> 00:47:31.235 says see you at Linux Fest Northwest amazing yes beers on us, 00:47:32.355 --> 00:47:37.175 beers on us thank you for the boost appreciate that Dev and really looking forward 00:47:37.175 --> 00:47:38.415 to seeing you at Linux Fest Northwest, 00:47:39.335 --> 00:47:44.215 and thank you for the 600 acknowledgement too does feel like a big milestone 00:47:44.215 --> 00:47:47.995 we're on the other side of it now and feeling good feeling really good appreciate that, 00:48:02.055 --> 00:48:03.135 It is a daily day. 00:48:12.535 --> 00:48:20.415 In a similar vein, John Spriggs in our Matrix chat suggested grease pencils on ceramic walls. 00:48:22.575 --> 00:48:24.895 There you go. Okay. 00:48:25.295 --> 00:48:25.415 Right. 00:48:30.655 --> 00:48:35.855 neural p comes in with 6 000 sats happy 600 here's to more. 00:48:35.855 --> 00:48:41.395 Thank you for the great boost aaron that's very reasonable that's true thank 00:48:41.395 --> 00:48:46.395 you we do i always love knowing what's going on in the home lab too it doesn't have to be nicks well. 00:48:46.395 --> 00:48:49.215 40 000 shotoshis came in from rotted mood. 00:48:51.543 --> 00:48:54.283 You're not going to make show Toshies a thing over there. 00:48:56.383 --> 00:48:58.443 I'll just slip it in and see if it catches on. 00:48:58.463 --> 00:48:58.723 All right. 00:48:59.423 --> 00:49:02.763 Some thoughts on the Tuxies. Please keep them. 00:49:02.943 --> 00:49:06.443 I think they're great, and I look forward to them at the end of every single year. 00:49:06.623 --> 00:49:09.963 I think getting the community more involved to take some of the work off y'all's 00:49:09.963 --> 00:49:13.383 hands is a good idea, and I'm happy to help in any way I can. 00:49:14.303 --> 00:49:15.303 Well, thank you, Rodman. 00:49:15.623 --> 00:49:20.663 So we are still in discussion. I think it's going to be back in some form, 00:49:20.743 --> 00:49:24.623 although we don't have firm commitments on that, but we have everybody who's kind of interested. 00:49:27.383 --> 00:49:33.323 Congrats on 600. Thanks for putting in all the seen and unseen effort to make this show every week. 00:49:33.323 --> 00:49:33.543 Oh, you're right. 00:49:33.743 --> 00:49:36.103 I've listened to at least 500 of these episodes. 00:49:36.563 --> 00:49:39.403 Each week it feels like hanging out with the kids. 00:49:39.483 --> 00:49:40.583 Be proud of what you've accomplished. 00:49:40.583 --> 00:49:43.003 That's on 600 episodes and follows that up. 00:49:43.003 --> 00:49:49.203 I feel the Broadcom acquisition of VMware has had a similar size change in many aspects of IT. 00:49:50.163 --> 00:49:53.023 One difference is that the change is economic conversations regarding. 00:49:53.023 --> 00:49:54.463 Why do I love that so much? 00:49:54.463 --> 00:49:54.703 Are they in the plane? 00:49:54.943 --> 00:50:01.823 I wonder, right? Flyover Friend comes in with 22,222 sats. That's an Aflac. 00:50:03.023 --> 00:50:07.463 Congratulations on 600. Here's to 600 more. Concerning the book conversation 00:50:07.463 --> 00:50:11.163 in the pre-show, I'll add a big upvote for the Expeditionary Force series. 00:50:11.563 --> 00:50:13.963 And the reader for the audiobooks is top-notch. 00:50:14.563 --> 00:50:17.183 He's good. I'm having a little hard time falling asleep to him sometimes. 00:50:17.383 --> 00:50:18.783 Oh, it's too exciting, isn't it? 00:50:19.183 --> 00:50:22.723 And he's got a lot of, you know, he gives a presentation, as I like to say. 00:50:22.883 --> 00:50:23.803 He gives a presentation. 00:50:24.223 --> 00:50:25.523 Can you mimic his presentation? 00:50:25.843 --> 00:50:26.923 He's just got a range. 00:50:27.123 --> 00:50:28.263 You know? There's a lot of energy. 00:50:28.343 --> 00:50:28.903 Oh, you wait. 00:50:29.143 --> 00:50:29.563 Yeah, okay. 00:50:30.843 --> 00:50:32.783 Happy 600 from the Atlanta meetup. 00:50:32.783 --> 00:50:35.983 Yeah, where you can just sort of tune out. Yeah. I guess so. 00:50:39.583 --> 00:50:42.603 Oh, hey, how about that? What do you suppose a 20,000 sat is? 00:50:42.623 --> 00:50:43.363 Hello, Oakland! 00:50:43.623 --> 00:50:46.803 We got anything for that? You want something? How about... 00:50:53.923 --> 00:50:54.643 Ah, yes. 00:50:55.643 --> 00:51:00.883 Gretton comes in with 5,000 sats. Cheers from ATL BitLab. 00:51:05.543 --> 00:51:07.003 Okay. Something goes wrong. 00:51:10.423 --> 00:51:10.983 Yep. 00:51:11.203 --> 00:51:14.923 Thank you, PJ. 00:51:22.143 --> 00:51:24.123 Oh, super happy to brief. 00:51:29.954 --> 00:51:32.594 Including Drew. Oh, heck yeah. 00:51:32.794 --> 00:51:33.454 It's true. It's good. 00:51:33.574 --> 00:51:33.994 I love this. 00:51:34.214 --> 00:51:36.754 That's good. Thank you, Derivation. You know, Brent and I were doing an oil 00:51:36.754 --> 00:51:39.814 change, and I just bought a kit. Because I've always just bought this kit. 00:51:40.094 --> 00:51:43.474 But this time, I got fancier oil. So it was a different kit. 00:51:43.914 --> 00:51:47.454 And they didn't include all the oil. And so we're done. We're wrapping up, 00:51:47.494 --> 00:51:51.754 and we're like, we're still short, like at least two liters or something of oil. It was bad. 00:51:52.054 --> 00:51:56.054 We're like, well, now we have a non-functional car, and we don't have the oil. 00:51:56.094 --> 00:51:58.894 And, of course, it's fancy boy oil, so I can't just, like, go to O'Reilly's. 00:51:59.534 --> 00:52:04.914 linux thankfully we had another car but you know it's like in a way I should 00:52:04.914 --> 00:52:09.174 just have a very prescribed process that I follow I shouldn't rely on these 00:52:09.174 --> 00:52:14.714 pre-made kits and I should order the pieces myself and yeah it the analogy works I tell you what, 00:52:15.534 --> 00:52:17.454 thanks derivation appreciate that. 00:52:17.454 --> 00:52:25.034 Well the dude is abiding with 20,000 sets I was re-listening to yesterday's 00:52:25.034 --> 00:52:28.614 live feed and I don't believe anyone mentioned It really should be 1.6. 00:52:28.694 --> 00:52:32.494 Because that doesn't include the manual, Nick Lang, because I didn't get to that. Even better. 00:52:32.814 --> 00:52:36.574 Oh, everything everywhere all at once. Right. We didn't mention it, 00:52:36.654 --> 00:52:40.294 but I think people kind of knew, right? It felt like it was a riff. 00:52:41.194 --> 00:52:45.554 By the way, I also voted for this one since it was clever, despite the fact 00:52:45.554 --> 00:52:48.094 that the other title was the one I proposed. 00:52:48.714 --> 00:52:53.414 I know that you joke about the site speed of 1Password all the time in the live 00:52:53.414 --> 00:52:55.574 feed, but did you know it's built with Hugo? 00:52:55.894 --> 00:52:56.654 Oh, I did not know that. 00:52:56.654 --> 00:52:59.114 The support site is, but I think the rest of the site as well. 00:52:59.374 --> 00:52:59.854 Oh. 00:53:00.174 --> 00:53:00.794 No wonder it's so fast. 00:53:00.854 --> 00:53:04.894 It does pop right up. OnePassword.com slash unplugged. Just pops right up. 00:53:05.354 --> 00:53:08.814 Thank you, the dude abides. I learned a little bit in that boost. Appreciate that. 00:53:10.654 --> 00:53:11.614 Ham is... 00:53:11.614 --> 00:53:12.474 Hamish McLean. 00:53:12.574 --> 00:53:18.054 Hamish McLean. Clean? Clean. Comes in with 6,666 sats. 00:53:19.614 --> 00:53:24.234 Devil's donation from the London gang with love. Oh, that's amazing. 00:53:24.514 --> 00:53:24.854 Nice. 00:53:25.174 --> 00:53:30.614 Thank you, London gang. thank you well uh well i think that's good right maybe 00:53:30.614 --> 00:53:33.754 i don't know thank you very much, 00:53:39.918 --> 00:53:41.178 Hey, thank you. 00:53:50.158 --> 00:53:51.118 No, never. 00:53:53.418 --> 00:53:56.918 Shapira Me came in with 2,000 sats in total. 00:53:57.338 --> 00:54:00.198 Chris, you said that it's ironic that now podcasts that are really relevant 00:54:00.198 --> 00:54:01.738 are being kidnapped by YouTube. 00:54:01.978 --> 00:54:05.298 But on the other hand, it does make sense that as some media formats become 00:54:05.298 --> 00:54:08.798 more relevant, these big platforms want to try to dominate it. 00:54:09.178 --> 00:54:09.658 Right? 00:54:09.918 --> 00:54:14.058 I guess that those like you become highly specialized in this format, 00:54:14.378 --> 00:54:18.118 a niche, and somehow suffer the most because of it. 00:54:18.198 --> 00:54:20.778 I think moving to V for V was the right move. 00:54:20.918 --> 00:54:24.498 Well, first of all, I really appreciate your insight and how you really do seem 00:54:24.498 --> 00:54:27.018 to get it. And that's, I think, a very valid point. 00:54:27.658 --> 00:54:30.538 As these things got more relevant, of course big money would get in. 00:54:32.398 --> 00:54:36.378 And in fact, to that point, it's a well-known fact that YouTube just wrote checks 00:54:36.378 --> 00:54:39.658 to some podcasters to move over to YouTube as their primary distribution platform. 00:54:39.658 --> 00:54:42.418 just like Spotify did several years ago. They just write checks. 00:54:47.178 --> 00:54:53.258 Yeah, it's just how they do it. And I do, I still want to keep an open ear to 00:54:53.258 --> 00:54:54.898 the audience that wants to advocate for video. 00:54:55.018 --> 00:54:58.218 Like I don't want to shut it down entirely, but I like our focus on audio because 00:54:58.218 --> 00:55:00.818 it means we can do multi-track audio. We can try to clean it up. 00:55:00.918 --> 00:55:04.478 We can do things that we just can't really do with video on a budget that's sustainable. 00:55:05.858 --> 00:55:07.958 But yeah, he follows up there. 00:55:08.538 --> 00:55:12.298 Yeah, Shapirami continues here on the topic of shower thoughts and our crazy 00:55:12.298 --> 00:55:14.038 wacky methods of trying to record them. 00:55:14.638 --> 00:55:18.018 I have a glass door on the shower that separates it from the rest of the bathroom, 00:55:18.018 --> 00:55:20.738 so I decided to try a pen that writes on glass. 00:55:20.978 --> 00:55:22.898 Thank you for the tip. What a great idea. 00:55:23.098 --> 00:55:26.998 How many people are solving this out there? I love it. Yeah. Yeah. 00:55:27.358 --> 00:55:34.338 I feel like this is a show swag opportunity because if we could come up with 00:55:34.338 --> 00:55:37.718 a product, I would buy it. You guys would probably buy it. 00:55:37.958 --> 00:55:40.818 It sounds like people in the audience would buy it. This would be a great unplugged 00:55:40.818 --> 00:55:43.478 product is the shower thoughts accessory. 00:55:45.238 --> 00:55:49.938 Yeah. The unplugged shower thought saver. That's really funny. That's really funny. 00:55:50.498 --> 00:55:54.358 Somebody write that down. Cause I won't remember, but I think that's, I would, I would own one. 00:55:55.198 --> 00:55:57.698 The immunologist is here with, thank you for the boost. The immunologist is 00:55:57.698 --> 00:55:59.018 here with 6,000, 10 sats. 00:56:01.918 --> 00:56:06.618 Happy 600. Stay decentralized. I wanted to try free BSD on my Raspberry Pi four, 00:56:07.518 --> 00:56:09.738 but I realized it needs a USB keyboard for that. 00:56:09.898 --> 00:56:12.538 And I use Bluetooth for everything, even my sound. 00:56:12.758 --> 00:56:15.298 So no BSD for me this time. 00:56:15.978 --> 00:56:17.978 Wow. A hard line on the blue teeth. 00:56:19.058 --> 00:56:23.218 Interesting. Yeah. We went, we just went real simple wired just cause you know, 00:56:23.378 --> 00:56:26.278 even ethernet just wanted everything to just work as easily as possible. 00:56:26.378 --> 00:56:30.618 I'm not sure why we instinctively started there, but it seemed to work out well for us. 00:56:31.158 --> 00:56:33.538 Yeah. I think the, I think if we were going blue teeth, it'd be a challenge. 00:56:46.704 --> 00:56:47.344 Well, howdy. 00:56:50.204 --> 00:56:50.564 Nice. 00:56:51.724 --> 00:56:53.804 Wow. Well done. 00:56:53.924 --> 00:56:54.544 On BSD, right? 00:56:54.804 --> 00:56:55.124 Yeah. 00:57:08.004 --> 00:57:10.324 I kind of feel like that's what we've been doing with people boosting and telling 00:57:10.324 --> 00:57:11.904 us. I'm getting some signal on this. 00:57:12.564 --> 00:57:17.764 All right. Well, thank you for setting Balbi up. I know you had a split fail. Yeah, just so. 00:57:34.564 --> 00:57:37.524 Yeah, yeah. We won't get the sats, but you'll keep the sats. 00:57:37.624 --> 00:57:41.724 But the other, we have several nodes in the process, so we will generally, most of them get it. 00:57:41.864 --> 00:57:44.944 It's very rare, but things change from time to time, and we just have to stay 00:57:44.944 --> 00:57:46.764 on top of it. They are like a Tamagotchi pet. 00:57:52.344 --> 00:57:53.404 Oh, that's nice of you. 00:57:54.484 --> 00:57:57.364 A lot of packs sent in 10,000 shotoshis. 00:57:58.304 --> 00:57:58.784 Yeah. 00:57:59.704 --> 00:58:03.244 Happy 600. Been a huge fan since around episode 200. 00:58:03.444 --> 00:58:03.744 Right on. 00:58:03.824 --> 00:58:07.084 And we'll happily keep tuning in for that next 600 and beyond. 00:58:07.344 --> 00:58:10.804 Well, thank you, Lod. Nice to hear from you. Thanks for boosting in. 00:58:11.344 --> 00:58:16.424 True Grits is here with 17.010 sats. Is that a start trick? 00:58:16.664 --> 00:58:16.744 Sure. 00:58:19.304 --> 00:58:22.224 Hello. Apologies for missing the past window to make it into 600. 00:58:22.404 --> 00:58:26.124 Should there be a component? And we could discuss it on the show. Oh, that's great. 00:58:26.124 --> 00:58:29.664 That's always nice. But I finally pulled the trigger on getting my sats off the exchange. 00:58:29.724 --> 00:58:30.664 Can you argue for some points? 00:58:30.684 --> 00:58:33.404 You can thank the Cash App not supporting Graphene OS for that. 00:58:33.424 --> 00:58:35.444 I think it represents. That should be a two-pointer. 00:58:35.504 --> 00:58:38.604 And also happy belated birthday to Chris. Cheers to 600. Thank you, 00:58:38.684 --> 00:58:39.924 True Grits. It's great to hear from you. 00:58:41.104 --> 00:58:41.584 Yeah. 00:58:44.664 --> 00:58:45.504 There he is. 00:58:46.424 --> 00:58:50.044 Oh, there might be both versions, depending on how much you did. 00:59:02.629 --> 00:59:04.069 Word word yeah. 00:59:04.069 --> 00:59:04.589 I think like. 00:59:04.589 --> 00:59:07.249 That drives me crazy especially when you've been listening to an 00:59:07.249 --> 00:59:10.029 audio podcast right like and then they go to a youtube live 00:59:10.029 --> 00:59:14.749 stream and they spend so much time like addressing the live chat or what they're 00:59:14.749 --> 00:59:17.869 leaking at or you set up zfs or you know whatever you were an audio podcast 00:59:17.869 --> 00:59:22.729 or you got like a desktop going that was yeah you could run stuff if you don't 00:59:22.729 --> 00:59:25.869 get at least one of those whisper seems like you didn't actually try it we're 00:59:25.869 --> 00:59:27.809 still working on the actual refining process. 00:59:28.269 --> 00:59:29.949 We might just do a little bit on it. 00:59:30.149 --> 00:59:31.189 You got to run Windows for a week? 00:59:31.769 --> 00:59:34.309 Yeah, right now, yeah, we're manually running them. 00:59:34.409 --> 00:59:35.349 That's why it's a punishment. 00:59:35.509 --> 00:59:38.389 We plan to write processes and scripts around that. 00:59:38.549 --> 00:59:41.849 So it's nothing magical at the moment. It's just hard work. And I don't think 00:59:41.849 --> 00:59:45.769 we've gotten anybody, not a single person said anything about the transcripts. 00:59:46.209 --> 00:59:49.509 But with Gene? Well, Gene did. Gene. But I mean, outside. 00:59:50.969 --> 00:59:54.409 Oh, okay, good, good, good, good. I was like, oh, man, we worked hard on that 00:59:54.409 --> 00:59:57.909 and people said they wanted it. And then nobody said anything. 01:00:01.089 --> 01:00:03.449 Maybe. Just works, right? Just works. 01:00:04.229 --> 01:00:06.429 Well, exception boosted in a row of ducks. 01:00:06.629 --> 01:00:07.389 Hey, look at those ducks. 01:00:08.589 --> 01:00:11.509 Happy 601. Why? Because it's a prime number. 01:00:12.109 --> 01:00:13.469 Nice. Thank you. 01:00:13.489 --> 01:00:15.109 But it's got to be like a system-wide thing. 01:00:15.289 --> 01:00:19.449 Hey, Oppie1984 is checking in with 4,000 sats. 01:00:20.769 --> 01:00:25.829 Related happy 600 boosts. Also, just say no to video. Nice, Oppie. 01:00:25.949 --> 01:00:27.669 Thank you. vote registered. Ha ha ha ha. 01:00:37.566 --> 01:00:38.146 Oh, man. 01:00:42.526 --> 01:00:46.806 So, Sire, if you want to take another pass at it, FreeBSD is just going to use 01:00:46.806 --> 01:00:50.226 framebuffer by default unless you go into your rc.conf and tell it which video 01:00:50.226 --> 01:00:51.926 driver to load, and you've got to install those drivers. 01:00:52.246 --> 01:00:55.746 Like, even with my Intel system, I had to go in there and tell it to use the 01:00:55.746 --> 01:00:56.706 Intel, manually, and tell the Intel. 01:00:56.746 --> 01:00:59.826 I had to install stuff, and then tell it to use the Intel driver and load that. 01:01:00.646 --> 01:01:01.646 Otherwise, it just won't try. 01:01:04.486 --> 01:01:08.426 There's a mod and all that, But you find out how to, you get that working, 01:01:08.426 --> 01:01:10.006 and then you'll be cooking, right? 01:01:11.146 --> 01:01:16.466 I'm sorry to hear about the trouble. I'd love to hear other people's success or trials with FreeBSD. 01:01:16.826 --> 01:01:20.186 Next week is the episode to really report in and let us know how it's going. 01:01:20.786 --> 01:01:24.386 Thank you, everybody, who boosts in and supports episode 601. 01:01:24.786 --> 01:01:28.166 This here little crazy podcast is made possible by our community, 01:01:28.406 --> 01:01:31.546 our members, and the folks who submit value back to the show, 01:01:31.726 --> 01:01:33.766 either through time, talent, or treasure. 01:01:33.766 --> 01:01:37.386 And we had 37 of you just stream those sats as you listen to the podcast, 01:01:37.386 --> 01:01:43.926 and we stacked 54,723 sats through the streamers. Thank you very much, SatStreamers. 01:01:44.046 --> 01:01:52.226 When you combine that with the boosters, the show stacked a very reasonable 892,649 sats. 01:01:53.406 --> 01:01:56.946 And we're going to want to see a screenshot of the Windows Comic Sans desktop. 01:01:59.546 --> 01:02:06.686 Thank you, everybody. we are planning a long bright future and, 01:02:07.666 --> 01:02:11.566 Being able to directly support the show means that your value comes into the show. 01:02:11.606 --> 01:02:14.966 We can manage that in the future to give ourselves runway, perhaps leverage 01:02:14.966 --> 01:02:19.906 this to really be able to go on trips or have episodes that don't require sponsorship 01:02:19.906 --> 01:02:22.066 at all. It's a bright, bright future. 01:02:22.206 --> 01:02:25.386 And it's made possible by our audience that makes the content sustainable. 01:02:25.606 --> 01:02:29.146 Like, it's just a beautiful cycle of life there. And we really appreciate it. 01:02:29.246 --> 01:02:32.586 If you'd like to boost in, you can probably do it the easiest way by getting 01:02:32.586 --> 01:02:35.866 the Strike app to grab those sats and then the Fountain app to send a boost. 01:02:35.866 --> 01:02:40.466 Or if you don't want to try out a different podcast app, you can do it with Breeze, B-R-E-E-Z. 01:02:41.266 --> 01:02:43.486 And there's a couple of ways to get the sats into that, including Strike. 01:02:43.866 --> 01:02:47.426 There's a lot of great podcasting 2.0 apps, and you get lots of features in there. 01:02:47.526 --> 01:02:50.166 Like our live stream, when we're live right now, in the app, 01:02:50.206 --> 01:02:51.966 it would tell you right at this moment that we're live. 01:02:52.426 --> 01:02:55.226 Additionally, you get the full transcript support, and sometimes you get the 01:02:55.226 --> 01:02:58.366 full dieterized transcript version in the podcasting 2.0 apps. 01:02:58.586 --> 01:03:01.166 It has cloud chapters, which are an improved version of chapters. 01:03:01.386 --> 01:03:04.966 When the show is released, you get released announcements within 90 seconds. 01:03:04.966 --> 01:03:07.546 And then, of course, it also supports things like Boost. 01:03:07.806 --> 01:03:13.086 And there's an entire category of things coming to podcasting to do apps like audiobooks and more. 01:03:13.566 --> 01:03:18.666 And all of this is an open source spec. It's just trying to make podcasting 01:03:18.666 --> 01:03:21.426 competitive with platforms like YouTube and Spotify. 01:03:21.786 --> 01:03:26.326 But doing it in a decentralized way where the RSS feed is always the source of truth. 01:03:26.346 --> 01:03:27.966 Not a proprietary platform. 01:03:28.146 --> 01:03:31.666 Not a script hosting provider. Your XML file is the source of truth. 01:03:31.666 --> 01:03:33.886 It wasn't even in the document. And anyone can read that. 01:03:33.886 --> 01:03:37.486 That's what podcasting 2.0 is all about and I encourage you to go get a new 01:03:37.486 --> 01:03:41.366 app at podcastingapps.com and we appreciate the support so. 01:03:41.366 --> 01:03:43.886 This is sort of it's an overture to. 01:03:43.886 --> 01:03:48.546 Folks that you know you can use Durham like Durham plus Nix in various ways 01:03:48.546 --> 01:03:55.026 David and Nick Shells really nice because Durham I'm just like I love an Apple 01:03:55.026 --> 01:03:58.526 watch replacement got me a Garmin watch connected with my, 01:03:59.086 --> 01:04:02.666 Garmin watch really been loving the health stats really been liking the functionality 01:04:02.666 --> 01:04:06.506 You were using it this weekend while you were rock climbing to kind of keep 01:04:06.506 --> 01:04:07.946 track of how you're doing and recovering. 01:04:08.869 --> 01:04:14.349 But there is this sort of uncomfortableness with it's tied into the Garmin Connect app. 01:04:14.629 --> 01:04:19.649 I don't know how I would move this to another device in the future or if I ever wanted to leave Garmin. 01:04:19.949 --> 01:04:23.989 Well, I know you absolutely love having all that history as well. 01:04:24.069 --> 01:04:28.149 And I recently came across this little project, Garmin DB. 01:04:28.889 --> 01:04:33.489 It basically downloads and parses data from Garmin Connect or Garmin Watch. 01:04:33.649 --> 01:04:37.489 But it also does Fitbits and Microsoft Health CSV files. 01:04:37.689 --> 01:04:37.969 Nice. 01:04:37.969 --> 01:04:43.789 So it goes and grabs all of those and allows you to analyze that data in a SQLite 01:04:43.789 --> 01:04:46.309 database, basically, through Jupyter Notebook. 01:04:46.329 --> 01:04:49.349 So you can also visualize all of that data with this project. 01:04:49.769 --> 01:04:55.029 And it pulls down everything. And when I mean everything, it's like your heart 01:04:55.029 --> 01:04:58.609 rates, activities, your climbing, your stress, intensity, minutes, 01:04:58.889 --> 01:05:02.909 like all that stuff from the daily summaries page on Garmin, if you know that. 01:05:03.009 --> 01:05:07.449 But it also does all your sleep and weight and basically pulls everything you possibly can get. 01:05:07.449 --> 01:05:10.369 Yeah, and then the tools to analyze it and visualize it. 01:05:10.449 --> 01:05:15.809 I imagine, Chris, it's not too much of a stretch to get this to implement this 01:05:15.809 --> 01:05:17.909 data into your Home Assistant instance. 01:05:18.249 --> 01:05:20.269 I would not be surprised if somebody's already working on that, Brent. 01:05:20.329 --> 01:05:21.209 Maybe we should look into it. 01:05:21.309 --> 01:05:26.169 Yeah. Maybe I don't want to know, though. But, you know, it is nice that it 01:05:26.169 --> 01:05:28.189 supports other devices, too. I didn't realize that. 01:05:28.529 --> 01:05:32.089 I'm kind of excited, you know, with the potential of the Pebble stuff, 01:05:32.089 --> 01:05:35.789 maybe kind of getting rejuvenated with Google open sourcing and all of that. 01:05:35.789 --> 01:05:38.329 It'd be nice to plug that into this as well. 01:05:38.369 --> 01:05:40.969 So there could just be one more device you could export your health data from. 01:05:41.249 --> 01:05:45.229 So it's called Garmin DB, but it also, like Brent said, supports a lot of the Fitbits. 01:05:46.069 --> 01:05:49.589 And whatever the MSHealth file format is, it supports that as well. 01:05:49.909 --> 01:05:53.449 And it looks really great. And GPL, too. 01:05:54.869 --> 01:05:58.609 GPL, too. So you got yourself a nice open source app, too. 01:05:59.209 --> 01:06:03.609 And that's, you know, I got to say, one of its killer features over the Apple Watch. 01:06:04.309 --> 01:06:07.549 There's probably ways to export Apple Watch health data. If anybody knows, 01:06:07.669 --> 01:06:10.089 I kind of would like to know. I wouldn't mind going to get any of my old health data. 01:06:10.769 --> 01:06:13.869 But this is just, this is the difference right here, right? 01:06:13.929 --> 01:06:18.889 It's tools like this basically just sit on top of Python and SQL and CSV files. 01:06:19.009 --> 01:06:20.109 And it makes it possible. 01:06:20.249 --> 01:06:21.749 Maybe put it in the feedback room. 01:06:21.789 --> 01:06:23.749 But don't take anyone to start. Thanks for sharing. 01:06:23.749 --> 01:06:24.489 We'll check on it there. 01:06:28.169 --> 01:06:31.409 We're live at 9 a.m. No, 10 a.m. Pacific. 01:06:31.869 --> 01:06:34.909 Got to get that right. And, of course, you know, I'm going to screw it up. 01:06:35.249 --> 01:06:41.169 We're live at 10 a.m. Pacific, which, what is that, Wes, in the East Coast? Is that plus three? 01:06:41.389 --> 01:06:41.589 Yeah. 01:06:43.789 --> 01:06:47.409 Okay, so, yeah, we used to be three. So, now, yeah, it's 1 p.m. Eastern. Right. 01:06:47.789 --> 01:06:51.549 And we will also be live in your podcasting app. And you can plug jblive.fm, 01:06:51.709 --> 01:06:54.309 jblive.fm in wherever you're at. 01:06:54.689 --> 01:06:56.569 and listen to the show. We like it when you get in the Matrix, 01:06:56.609 --> 01:06:57.849 too, and help us title it. 01:06:58.389 --> 01:06:59.769 Classic by Michael W. Lucas. 01:06:59.869 --> 01:07:03.129 It gives a nice vibe. So that's all over there. And we'd love it if you'd join 01:07:03.129 --> 01:07:04.429 us live next week. Who knows? 01:07:04.649 --> 01:07:08.049 I was thinking we'd use one of those new fancy AI tools to turn it into an audiobook. 01:07:08.189 --> 01:07:10.869 I think so. And you could always pipe in and tell us how it's going, 01:07:10.909 --> 01:07:12.709 too, and that mumble room will be running as well. 01:07:13.629 --> 01:07:18.049 Now, links to what we talked about today are over at linuxunplugged.com slash 601. 01:07:18.469 --> 01:07:24.049 You'll also find our contact form, the RSS feed, details about the matrix and 01:07:24.049 --> 01:07:25.549 all that kind of stuff. I'm slipping into an accent. 01:07:26.689 --> 01:07:30.809 I don't know why you find the details. Also the rules for the free BSD challenge. 01:07:30.929 --> 01:07:33.169 Those are going to be in our show notes. Just look down in the links. 01:07:33.589 --> 01:07:36.909 You'll see the rules for the free BSD challenge. And we'd love to hear how it's going for you. 01:07:37.149 --> 01:07:39.649 Don't forget. We also want to hear about your multi-monitor setup. 01:07:39.849 --> 01:07:42.709 Are you using multi-monitor single screen? Tell us your setup. 01:07:43.189 --> 01:07:46.829 We'd like to know if it's a popular thing in our audience or if it's something 01:07:46.829 --> 01:07:47.829 we don't have to worry about. 01:07:48.309 --> 01:07:52.189 Anyways, thanks so much for listening. We'll see you right back here next Tuesday, as in Sunday.
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