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The BSD Humbling

Feb 16, 2025
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Our FreeBSD Challenge comes to a close, and chances are one of us will be paying the Windows tax.

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Transcript

WEBVTT 00:00:11.465 --> 00:00:15.985 Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. 00:00:16.145 --> 00:00:16.925 My name is Wes. 00:00:17.185 --> 00:00:18.025 And my name is Brent. 00:00:18.325 --> 00:00:21.745 Well, hello, gentlemen. Coming up on the show today, it is indeed the grand 00:00:21.745 --> 00:00:25.625 conclusion of our free BSD challenge that we kicked off in episode 600. 00:00:26.305 --> 00:00:30.765 You've been reporting in, we've been bench testing, and we'll find out how we did. 00:00:30.905 --> 00:00:34.885 We'll score our BSD challenge and see if one of us ends up running Windows. 00:00:35.265 --> 00:00:37.425 Then we're going to round out the show with some great boosts, 00:00:37.545 --> 00:00:41.125 some killer picks, and a lot more. So before we get into all of that, 00:00:41.425 --> 00:00:44.905 let's say time-appropriate greetings to that virtual lug. Hello, Mumble Room. 00:00:45.165 --> 00:00:49.785 Hello. Hi. Hello. Hello, hello, hello. Hi. 00:00:50.265 --> 00:00:53.545 Amazing. It's nice to have people in there. Of course, you can always join our 00:00:53.545 --> 00:00:57.205 Mumble Room. We do it live on the Sunday. We start around 10 a.m. Pacific. 00:00:57.805 --> 00:01:01.665 And Mumble details are at jupiterbroadcasting.com slash mumble. 00:01:02.485 --> 00:01:07.665 And a big good morning to our friends at TailScale. Go to tailscale.com slash unplugged. 00:01:07.665 --> 00:01:10.585 this is the easiest way to connect your devices and 00:01:10.585 --> 00:01:13.385 services to each other wherever they are over a 00:01:13.385 --> 00:01:17.725 flat mesh network protected by yeah it's 00:01:17.725 --> 00:01:21.345 modern networking and it connects your devices your applications your mobile 00:01:21.345 --> 00:01:26.205 devices directly to each other it's great for individuals and it's so killer 00:01:26.205 --> 00:01:30.805 for companies as well secure remote access and it's really really fast it's 00:01:30.805 --> 00:01:35.585 intuitive and it's programmable so you no longer need to have any inbound ports 00:01:35.585 --> 00:01:36.765 But if you're a corporation, 00:01:37.065 --> 00:01:39.085 you no longer need to have any of this crazy legacy, 00:01:39.405 --> 00:01:41.685 just massively complicated VPN stuff. 00:01:41.965 --> 00:01:45.245 It's easy to deploy. It's easy to integrate with your authentication infrastructure. 00:01:45.565 --> 00:01:48.685 It's zero trust every organization or user can use. 00:01:48.785 --> 00:01:52.185 And the free plan, when you go to tailscale.com slash unplugged, 00:01:52.305 --> 00:01:56.105 gets you one Hyundai devices and three user accounts forever. 00:01:56.385 --> 00:01:57.565 No credit card required. 00:01:57.905 --> 00:02:01.065 That's the plan I'm on. Been using since like, you know, three or four years 00:02:01.065 --> 00:02:01.945 ago or whatever it's been. 00:02:02.325 --> 00:02:06.505 And still using today for my personal. and then started deploying it for Jupyter 00:02:06.505 --> 00:02:09.585 Broadcasting too and it's just changed our infrastructure game and our flexibility, 00:02:10.285 --> 00:02:13.945 of where we can deploy, what systems need to be where. 00:02:13.945 --> 00:02:17.625 It's been a huge cost saver for us and there's thousands of other companies 00:02:17.625 --> 00:02:20.245 and individuals beyond just that that are using it as well. 00:02:20.425 --> 00:02:22.805 So try it out for yourself or for a business. 00:02:23.085 --> 00:02:27.045 See why we love it, why we all use it. Talescale.com slash unplugged. 00:02:30.106 --> 00:02:35.306 I am very pleased to say that we have locked in our plans for Planet Nix. 00:02:35.686 --> 00:02:38.566 Oh, this is exciting. 00:02:38.966 --> 00:02:43.726 Oh. This is huge for us, obviously, just because of the Nix journey we've been 00:02:43.726 --> 00:02:45.746 on. But this is the first Planet Nix. 00:02:46.066 --> 00:02:48.926 We really wanted to be there for the first one. I'd like to be there for every 00:02:48.926 --> 00:02:51.946 single one of them, just like I have been for LinuxFest Northwest, 00:02:51.946 --> 00:02:56.126 because you really understand the culture and journey of an event when you can do that. 00:02:56.706 --> 00:03:00.866 And I have tremendous gratitude that I want to convey to Phlox. 00:03:00.966 --> 00:03:02.926 They're making our coverage possible. 00:03:03.346 --> 00:03:08.066 Last year, we successfully crowdfunded our trip, and we are immensely grateful. 00:03:08.606 --> 00:03:12.806 But this year, I was able to find the right partner, the right fit, 00:03:13.026 --> 00:03:16.186 and that's with Phlox. So we're really excited to work with them. 00:03:16.406 --> 00:03:19.206 They're going to be helping us get down there and make the coverage possible. 00:03:19.466 --> 00:03:22.726 If you're not familiar with them, they make it super easy to create development 00:03:22.726 --> 00:03:25.966 environments with all the dependencies you need and then easily share them with 00:03:25.966 --> 00:03:27.766 a colleague, you can go to flox.dev. 00:03:27.826 --> 00:03:29.886 That's F-L-O-X.dev to check them out. 00:03:30.746 --> 00:03:34.566 Super excited about all this. We'll have more details soon. We'd love to see 00:03:34.566 --> 00:03:37.806 you there March 6th through the 7th in Pasadena. 00:03:38.066 --> 00:03:41.726 Join us for the first Planet Nix ever. The very first one. 00:03:45.306 --> 00:03:48.566 Whether you're a cadet or a Commodore, a hacker or a learner, 00:03:49.186 --> 00:03:51.626 come on down. Check out all the fuss. 00:03:52.126 --> 00:03:56.066 very, very, very excited about Planet Nix and of course, Scale as well. 00:03:57.226 --> 00:04:00.646 And then LinuxFest Northwest just around the corner. And then one little bit 00:04:00.646 --> 00:04:04.266 more of housekeeping for you all, just something to be aware of. 00:04:04.386 --> 00:04:06.026 I have a new show that I'd like you to check out. 00:04:06.446 --> 00:04:09.406 It's relaxed, it's fun, and we have an open mumble room like we do here for 00:04:09.406 --> 00:04:12.846 this show. We start at 11.30 a.m. Pacific. That's 2.30 p.m. 00:04:13.226 --> 00:04:15.426 Eastern, 7.30 p.m. UTC. 00:04:16.166 --> 00:04:19.646 And I specifically want to invite our members to join us in the mumble room. 00:04:19.706 --> 00:04:23.446 This will be a one-to-one way to communicate with me and some of the team that 00:04:23.446 --> 00:04:26.686 shows up, hoping to have our friends from the network on, like Wes, 00:04:26.886 --> 00:04:28.446 and Brent was on episode one. 00:04:28.926 --> 00:04:30.406 Indeed. That was a great episode. 00:04:30.566 --> 00:04:33.486 And those that remember Angela, she's on there with me as well. 00:04:33.486 --> 00:04:35.146 In fact, this next week's episode, 00:04:35.246 --> 00:04:38.906 episode 10, is going to be kind of a reintroduction to Angela, my ex-wife. 00:04:39.646 --> 00:04:42.326 If you'd like to know about that, and some of the family story there, 00:04:42.866 --> 00:04:47.766 then check out the episode, episode 10, which will be weeklylaunch.rocks, 00:04:47.846 --> 00:04:48.506 and you'll find it over there. 00:04:48.626 --> 00:04:52.486 Nine is already out where Brent joins us and we're going to have fun with it. 00:04:52.706 --> 00:04:53.746 I wanted you to be aware of it. 00:04:54.346 --> 00:04:58.886 I'd like to just give a moment of shout out to our tireless website crew here. 00:04:59.426 --> 00:05:03.946 You know, this launch of the relaunch of the launch happened very quickly and 00:05:03.946 --> 00:05:08.286 CG Bass Player and Chance M were instrumental in getting it across the finish line. 00:05:08.486 --> 00:05:11.306 Knocked it out for us to make sure we could publish right on time. 00:05:11.726 --> 00:05:15.566 Yeah, that was great. So you can find it at jupiterbroadcasting.com or you can 00:05:15.566 --> 00:05:21.246 find the show site at weeklylaunch.rocks I think you'll enjoy it and it's going 00:05:21.246 --> 00:05:25.746 to be a nice easy listen as well and that gentlemen is the housekeeping for this week, 00:05:29.183 --> 00:05:32.823 All right, boys, it is the end of the FreeBSD Challenge. 00:05:33.963 --> 00:05:37.423 And let's do a little around-the-horn check-in and start with Mr. 00:05:37.503 --> 00:05:41.723 Brentley and see how his final week of the challenge went and eventually tally up his score. 00:05:42.003 --> 00:05:45.923 Well, Chris, you and I started our week together in studio, which is always fun. 00:05:45.923 --> 00:05:51.143 But I decided to say bye-bye to the pie that I mentioned last week with FreeBSD 00:05:51.143 --> 00:05:56.063 on it and to give Modern Hardware a go. 00:05:56.063 --> 00:06:00.783 So I decided to do the BSD-ing on my framework this week. That meant I had to 00:06:00.783 --> 00:06:05.843 start from scratch, but I could try a whole bunch of new things and see how the hardware did. 00:06:07.203 --> 00:06:13.703 And I decided, well, to go ghostly. So ghost BSD is where I decided to jump in. 00:06:13.883 --> 00:06:19.123 I figured for sure someone else would do Nick's BSD, so I was going to leave that to you boys. 00:06:20.263 --> 00:06:24.143 And I think it went pretty well at first. Chris, you were there. 00:06:24.143 --> 00:06:29.643 You saw it just kind of booed up and Wi-Fi worked, which I was curious about. 00:06:30.463 --> 00:06:35.723 And the video, everything video-wise worked really well. And it just seemed to like get going. 00:06:35.863 --> 00:06:40.283 And it was snappy too, considering that it's Mate in there with a bunch of super 00:06:40.283 --> 00:06:43.003 nice defaults in Ghost BSD that I really appreciated. 00:06:43.543 --> 00:06:48.163 One of them especially was having the fish shell by default. That was super nice. 00:06:48.663 --> 00:06:53.123 Yeah, we were sitting there at the BSD bench as we were busting through all of this. 00:06:53.123 --> 00:06:54.623 Battle Station Bench. 00:06:54.863 --> 00:06:58.263 The BSD Battle Station Bench as we were busting through all of this. 00:06:58.503 --> 00:07:03.343 And my first impression when we both tried GhostBSD on physical hardware was 00:07:03.343 --> 00:07:08.003 this is instantly more like a traditional Linux user experience. 00:07:08.263 --> 00:07:11.283 You know, it boots really quick. It does a fun little trick. 00:07:11.843 --> 00:07:15.663 I kind of wish I had an option, but it does a fun little trick where it dumps 00:07:15.663 --> 00:07:18.363 everything into what they call basically a swap RAM disk. 00:07:19.063 --> 00:07:24.883 And that takes a minute. So you need more than 4.1 gigs of RAM free because 00:07:24.883 --> 00:07:27.663 it takes about 4 gigs just to do this memory thing. 00:07:27.803 --> 00:07:30.623 So my first VM didn't like that very much, but on physical hardware, it was no problem. 00:07:30.743 --> 00:07:35.063 So it takes a second and it copies everything to a RAM disk and then it proceeds 00:07:35.063 --> 00:07:37.463 to boot the environment from that RAM disk. 00:07:37.863 --> 00:07:40.443 And if you're on standardized hardware, 00:07:41.472 --> 00:07:44.552 Unlike FreeBSD, which just drops you to a command prompt and it's like, 00:07:44.632 --> 00:07:45.692 all right, boss, what do you want to do now? 00:07:46.492 --> 00:07:50.172 This boots into an entire graphical environment with a curated experience. 00:07:50.172 --> 00:07:55.892 It's pretty nice and is much more like a traditional Linux experience, 00:07:55.992 --> 00:07:58.352 right, Brent? Like if you had tried Ubuntu Mate, this is what you would have experienced. 00:07:58.952 --> 00:08:00.972 Yeah, I'm not sure I would have been able to tell the difference, 00:08:01.072 --> 00:08:03.812 to be honest. And I think that's a good thing. 00:08:04.292 --> 00:08:09.292 It's nice to see, I guess we're calling this a FreeBSD distribution. 00:08:09.292 --> 00:08:12.032 just have some nice sane defaults or someone who 00:08:12.032 --> 00:08:14.672 wants to get to the desktop pretty quickly this was a good 00:08:14.672 --> 00:08:17.732 experience now that said i did 00:08:17.732 --> 00:08:24.612 run into issues as i kept working through our challenge list we did give certain 00:08:24.612 --> 00:08:30.572 points in episode 600 to certain activities so i worked all this week well and 00:08:30.572 --> 00:08:34.832 just before this show to try to get as many points as possible you know i gotta 00:08:34.832 --> 00:08:36.932 beat you guys something as. 00:08:36.932 --> 00:08:42.772 We are setting up to record the show this guy is working on his homework last minute i'm literally. 00:08:42.772 --> 00:08:44.152 Calling. 00:08:44.152 --> 00:08:47.172 Attendance and he's sitting here filling out his homework trying to get the 00:08:47.172 --> 00:08:49.372 highest score possible up to the very last moment. 00:08:49.372 --> 00:08:51.632 Okay i. 00:08:51.632 --> 00:08:52.972 Can um sympathize. 00:08:52.972 --> 00:08:54.572 I mean there was no rule about that. 00:08:54.572 --> 00:08:56.952 All right okay. 00:08:56.952 --> 00:09:03.312 So uh as part of my homework i did catch one well there's a few things. 00:09:03.452 --> 00:09:06.532 Let's walk through the points here. Install BSD and get it online. Check. 00:09:06.772 --> 00:09:09.652 All of that worked for me. So that's worth two points. 00:09:09.912 --> 00:09:14.052 Thank you very much. The next one here, record audio from a working desktop. 00:09:14.052 --> 00:09:19.732 So I did get a working desktop and I did about five minutes before the show, 00:09:19.912 --> 00:09:22.892 send you a little audio file. You'll let me know what you think of it. 00:09:23.012 --> 00:09:28.172 Yeah. Speaking of last minute homework here, I believe it's a little quiet, 00:09:28.312 --> 00:09:30.052 but it's Brent on Ghost BSD. 00:09:35.812 --> 00:09:38.712 all right i mean it kind of sounds like garbage but. 00:09:38.712 --> 00:09:40.832 It does sound like garbage i. 00:09:40.832 --> 00:09:46.072 Couldn't use it if you needed to record on it for the show if reality yeah. 00:09:46.072 --> 00:09:47.092 You probably. 00:09:47.092 --> 00:09:48.932 Couldn't use it to take a work call. 00:09:48.932 --> 00:09:52.272 No i know this was from a headset 00:09:52.272 --> 00:09:59.092 mic that i've used in many many many calls of course i did not plug my podcasting 00:09:59.092 --> 00:10:02.632 microphone into it just because i figured that would be a more realistic scenario 00:10:02.632 --> 00:10:08.732 for most people and it sounds rough i think maybe there's some stuff that i 00:10:08.732 --> 00:10:11.732 could do to make it sound better but i feel like 0.5. 00:10:11.732 --> 00:10:12.612 Point is fair oh. 00:10:12.612 --> 00:10:13.772 Hey hey now. 00:10:14.452 --> 00:10:15.692 And in previous. 00:10:15.692 --> 00:10:19.632 Defense you know for many years linux audio has also sounded like that so. 00:10:19.632 --> 00:10:22.892 Well here's the thing and i'll just be honest with you guys right up front before 00:10:22.892 --> 00:10:27.612 we get to my section uh i never got audio working i intended to circle back 00:10:27.612 --> 00:10:31.972 to it as they say and get it working, but I've hooked up this little USB speaker 00:10:31.972 --> 00:10:33.732 that I've used for other things, 00:10:33.892 --> 00:10:36.532 and it has a little microphone on it, and it's just, I thought, 00:10:36.692 --> 00:10:37.892 a generic audio device, and, 00:10:38.632 --> 00:10:42.412 And I hook it up, and it never gets detected by FreeBSD or GhostBSD. 00:10:42.472 --> 00:10:44.792 I never got working audio out of this device. 00:10:45.492 --> 00:10:47.552 And I'm sure if I would have, you know, gone through the closet, 00:10:47.552 --> 00:10:49.692 I probably could have found a USB audio device. It would have worked fine. 00:10:50.272 --> 00:10:54.452 I just assumed this one would, and it did not. So I never actually got working 00:10:54.452 --> 00:10:55.952 audio. So I get no point for this. 00:10:56.112 --> 00:10:58.312 So, I mean, 0.5 isn't that bad. 00:10:58.452 --> 00:10:59.392 Yeah, I'm in the same boat, so 00:10:59.392 --> 00:11:02.412 I think Brent and several audience members really smoked us on that point. 00:11:02.452 --> 00:11:03.072 Yeah, yeah. 00:11:03.152 --> 00:11:07.492 Heck, yeah. Take that. Chris, and to confirm, I did take that audio device you 00:11:07.492 --> 00:11:11.032 were trying, and I did try it on Linux and it worked perfectly fine. 00:11:11.612 --> 00:11:14.232 So not the device, definitely the software. 00:11:14.852 --> 00:11:18.092 Yeah, there's probably just not a driver. I just assumed it was some super generic 00:11:18.092 --> 00:11:22.492 USB audio codec, but now you try it on FreeBSD and you find out, no, actually, 00:11:23.052 --> 00:11:27.572 somebody, some brave soul is maintaining some esoteric driver for this stupid 00:11:27.572 --> 00:11:30.972 speaker or whatever it's using, whatever chipset it's using in the Linux kernel. 00:11:31.372 --> 00:11:37.012 I did continue using this on my framework, which went pretty well, 00:11:37.012 --> 00:11:42.812 Although just today, I shut the lid to put it on suspend because I figured, 00:11:42.992 --> 00:11:45.472 well, it's five minutes before the show. I should put this thing to sleep. 00:11:46.052 --> 00:11:50.832 And it started overheating, I would call it. 00:11:51.292 --> 00:11:55.432 Fans are blasting with the lid down. And I thought, geez, that's not good. 00:11:56.152 --> 00:12:02.012 Sure enough, I peeled open the screen and it just had crashed, basically. 00:12:02.012 --> 00:12:06.432 It was on a prompt, command prompt, and nothing I can do, nowhere I can go. 00:12:06.432 --> 00:12:13.912 So, uh, seems like sleeping at least on the framework 11th gen is not so nice 00:12:13.912 --> 00:12:16.372 with ghost BST. So that's a little PSA. 00:12:16.372 --> 00:12:17.292 Can I ask you something? 00:12:17.632 --> 00:12:18.012 Yeah, please. 00:12:18.292 --> 00:12:21.492 Uh, did your crash screen have a cool rust QR code? 00:12:24.172 --> 00:12:28.752 It did not. It did have some information, but I could not leave. 00:12:28.752 --> 00:12:32.932 I could not go to other TTYs to try to, uh, save this thing. 00:12:33.152 --> 00:12:34.772 It was just blasting heat. 00:12:35.292 --> 00:12:36.232 Blasting fans. 00:12:36.432 --> 00:12:39.112 Oh, yeah. And I just had to hard, hard reboot it. 00:12:39.232 --> 00:12:44.612 And just to make sure it wasn't me, I rebooted fresh and I put it to sleep and same deal. 00:12:44.892 --> 00:12:46.992 So that's a little disappointing. 00:12:47.472 --> 00:12:50.312 And does it, so it seemed like, I always love it when something crashes, 00:12:51.012 --> 00:12:55.112 especially at the system level, and then it just pegs the CPU. That's the best. 00:12:55.392 --> 00:12:58.932 That's so, like, I've literally had situations where I've come into a room and 00:12:58.932 --> 00:13:01.432 it's just like ridiculously hot. 00:13:01.552 --> 00:13:05.192 You're like, what is going on in here? And oh, this machine's been crashed for 24 hours. 00:13:05.792 --> 00:13:09.232 Pegged out sorry you didn't even get any bitcoin for it. 00:13:09.232 --> 00:13:16.292 Yeah so i guess maybe no no sleep no suspend for you on the framework for now. 00:13:16.292 --> 00:13:22.432 Yeah which kind of is a deal breaker i would say for most people um there might 00:13:22.432 --> 00:13:25.972 be a workaround some way to fix this i didn't have a chance to do any research 00:13:25.972 --> 00:13:30.292 because it happened a couple minutes before the show but to be noted because 00:13:30.292 --> 00:13:32.052 that uh yeah it didn't feel too good, 00:13:33.634 --> 00:13:37.094 I also, of course, ran into issues. 00:13:37.734 --> 00:13:43.474 So Wi-Fi worked at the studio, worked perfectly fine. I came home. That was not the case. 00:13:44.954 --> 00:13:49.074 And it took me a really long time to try to figure out. I had to even open up 00:13:49.074 --> 00:13:53.434 WPA Supplicant, that old file that you haven't touched in 10 years, 00:13:54.934 --> 00:13:57.054 and just to try to figure out what was going on. 00:13:57.054 --> 00:13:59.934 And my theory, the closest theory 00:13:59.934 --> 00:14:05.814 I can have, is that WPA2 isn't quite supported out of the box, it seems. 00:14:06.394 --> 00:14:09.934 My network here is WPA2 only. And that didn't seem to work either, 00:14:10.114 --> 00:14:13.134 so a little, I don't know, disappointed with that. 00:14:13.234 --> 00:14:13.414 Really? 00:14:13.554 --> 00:14:16.794 Yeah, really. The GhostBSD wiki has 00:14:16.794 --> 00:14:21.754 a nice FAQ where they mention how to troubleshoot Wi-Fi if you need it. 00:14:22.054 --> 00:14:25.714 But it doesn't mention anything about that. So, again, I was maybe. 00:14:25.714 --> 00:14:29.694 As far as I know, there should be support for WPA2 and FreeBSD, 00:14:29.774 --> 00:14:31.794 and GhostBSD is based on FreeBSD. 00:14:32.214 --> 00:14:34.554 Yeah, I was able to get it working with... 00:14:35.154 --> 00:14:35.794 WPA2, yeah. 00:14:35.854 --> 00:14:35.994 Yeah. 00:14:36.174 --> 00:14:37.954 I think the studio uses WPA2. 00:14:38.134 --> 00:14:42.754 That's what I could find as well, but it's the only thing I could see. 00:14:43.014 --> 00:14:48.274 So, opening up WPA Supplicant, it was saving my password, the correct password 00:14:48.274 --> 00:14:52.694 for the network, but just marking it as WPA. 00:14:52.914 --> 00:14:57.354 So, it needs more work. Okay. But that's another little hiccup I ran into. 00:14:57.614 --> 00:15:02.814 And my experience is with BSD, you quickly have to basically dive into config 00:15:02.814 --> 00:15:07.174 files to try to troubleshoot some of these things. So a good way to learn. 00:15:07.374 --> 00:15:09.714 Is this guy, is he new to Linux? What? 00:15:11.254 --> 00:15:14.834 Yeah, I don't mind. I mean, really, the config files are pretty reasonable. 00:15:15.214 --> 00:15:19.414 You know, they're pretty sensible. And they're generally a handful that you 00:15:19.414 --> 00:15:20.434 really have to care about. 00:15:20.694 --> 00:15:22.994 Yeah, you do kind of have to end up learning, like, what are the core things? 00:15:23.114 --> 00:15:25.934 Okay, I want to modify this part of the system. That's over in this .conf, 00:15:25.954 --> 00:15:27.014 and this bit's over here. 00:15:27.274 --> 00:15:30.214 And there's a few things that are stored in slash boot that would be stored 00:15:30.214 --> 00:15:33.374 in slash Etsy for Linux, and you have to kind of remap your brain around that, 00:15:33.434 --> 00:15:36.514 but it's not too bad. How did you manage the command line stuff in general, Brent? 00:15:36.834 --> 00:15:39.934 Yeah, I thought it felt kind of just right at home. 00:15:40.594 --> 00:15:45.314 It felt like trying a new distribution where, okay, a couple of tools are renamed 00:15:45.314 --> 00:15:48.794 and they're a different tool, but they kind of function in a similar way. 00:15:49.134 --> 00:15:55.954 So installing packages and those kind of things, But really, it felt very familiar. 00:15:56.194 --> 00:15:58.054 So I thought it was completely fine. 00:15:58.474 --> 00:16:00.994 Totally fine. I would be very much okay with it. 00:16:02.989 --> 00:16:04.029 Not your opinion? 00:16:04.989 --> 00:16:06.809 No, I'm just glad to hear you didn't have a problem with it. 00:16:06.889 --> 00:16:08.849 I, you know, I don't know. 00:16:09.349 --> 00:16:11.869 You guys saw, I was like, I just want to use sudo. All the suggestions, 00:16:12.029 --> 00:16:14.969 all the guides online have a use sudo, and then you're not actually supposed 00:16:14.969 --> 00:16:17.129 to use sudo. You're supposed to use do as or whatever. 00:16:17.389 --> 00:16:20.609 Well, I mean, supposed to is a strong word, right? Like, you could do it. 00:16:20.629 --> 00:16:21.329 Well, it's not installed. 00:16:21.449 --> 00:16:21.949 It's not installed. 00:16:22.889 --> 00:16:23.209 Well. 00:16:23.889 --> 00:16:24.209 Oh. 00:16:24.589 --> 00:16:26.509 It was installed by default on Ghost. 00:16:26.849 --> 00:16:27.929 On Ghost. On Ghost, yeah. 00:16:28.069 --> 00:16:29.289 That was a nice idea as well. 00:16:29.349 --> 00:16:31.469 And that's true on some Linux setups, too. Not most of these days, 00:16:31.529 --> 00:16:32.629 but historically that has been. 00:16:32.629 --> 00:16:33.449 Back in the day, you're right. 00:16:33.509 --> 00:16:34.989 You got root, you could set up pseudo if you wanted. 00:16:34.989 --> 00:16:36.469 You would have to set it up yourself, that's true. 00:16:36.649 --> 00:16:37.829 So it's just sort of that style. 00:16:37.889 --> 00:16:38.169 It is. 00:16:38.289 --> 00:16:38.849 Which fits, right? 00:16:39.029 --> 00:16:40.769 Yeah, yeah. Okay, Brett, let's... 00:16:40.769 --> 00:16:47.329 Also, just point in favor in my mind, I think do-as is a lovely little utility. 00:16:47.629 --> 00:16:47.869 Oh, yeah? 00:16:48.109 --> 00:16:52.009 Well, just, I mean, the conf is so much simpler than, you know, 00:16:52.669 --> 00:16:55.109 the pseudo-conf, I mean, maybe you want this with do-as too, 00:16:55.169 --> 00:16:58.489 but the pseudo-conf, they had to come up with this whole VI pseudo thing because 00:16:58.489 --> 00:17:01.929 the pseudo-conf is so easy to mess up that you can lock yourself out of the system. 00:17:01.929 --> 00:17:05.069 Yeah, and half the file is them warning you not to edit it directly. 00:17:05.329 --> 00:17:09.409 Right, yeah. So just the simplicity, it's not as full-featured. 00:17:09.449 --> 00:17:12.589 You probably wouldn't want to use it in every situation, but you just want to 00:17:12.589 --> 00:17:14.409 have a normal user who can run things as root. 00:17:15.269 --> 00:17:19.869 Super easy. I mean, this is kind of why we're on Linux now, catching up in a 00:17:19.869 --> 00:17:23.729 way with the systemd run improvements in terms of CLI UX. 00:17:24.369 --> 00:17:27.189 So anyway, that's my little micro-soapbox on 2S. 00:17:27.849 --> 00:17:34.189 Well, you know, Wes, because you had a micro micro soapbox last week and told me, Brent, it's do as. 00:17:34.369 --> 00:17:37.009 And I was like, okay, okay. All right. This week I'm going to do that. 00:17:37.009 --> 00:17:39.429 And I got on ghost and it wasn't even installed. 00:17:39.449 --> 00:17:42.949 So I couldn't even use it. So I tried, I promise. 00:17:43.509 --> 00:17:45.689 All right. Let's get to the points. What else did you do to stack points? 00:17:45.769 --> 00:17:46.989 Cause I know you were doing your homework late. 00:17:47.829 --> 00:17:54.049 Yes. The last point here for two points is get one server or service running accessible via the LAN. 00:17:54.709 --> 00:17:55.069 Yeah. 00:17:56.206 --> 00:17:56.826 How did you do? 00:17:57.046 --> 00:17:58.786 Well, it depends what you consider a service. 00:18:02.166 --> 00:18:06.386 So a few points here, I kind of tried to combine. So I figured, 00:18:06.566 --> 00:18:09.926 geez, I could just try SyncThing. That's a service. 00:18:10.226 --> 00:18:14.146 And I could try hosting it maybe in a jail. 00:18:14.346 --> 00:18:18.526 Maybe then I can get some extra points for running something inside a jail. 00:18:18.846 --> 00:18:24.626 That ended up as quite a nice rabbit hole. And I will say I failed at the jails part. 00:18:24.626 --> 00:18:28.086 the same thing as well known to not work with 00:18:28.086 --> 00:18:31.366 networking in jails uh so maybe a 00:18:31.366 --> 00:18:36.486 bad choice on my end i did dive into jails and they sounded very interesting 00:18:36.486 --> 00:18:41.086 i didn't get far enough to get it working in a way that i was happy with so 00:18:41.086 --> 00:18:46.106 i would say more adventuring there so when it comes to the five points get an 00:18:46.106 --> 00:18:50.346 app running inside pond manor jails that is a total zero for me Okay. 00:18:50.586 --> 00:18:52.346 All right. That's fine. That's kind of extra. 00:18:52.686 --> 00:18:54.106 Yeah. You got the audio file. 00:18:54.266 --> 00:18:58.626 So that said, I bailed on jails and just installed sync thing with, 00:18:58.766 --> 00:19:04.006 you know, normally and got it up and running and used it through tail scale. 00:19:04.386 --> 00:19:09.246 And I found tail scale was very easy to install in BSD. It was just such a treat. 00:19:09.406 --> 00:19:10.626 And that was your experience too, right, Chris? 00:19:11.126 --> 00:19:15.286 Yeah. So I think out of all of the things I set up on BSD, 00:19:15.506 --> 00:19:20.586 tail scale was the simplest because nothing works by default but tail scale 00:19:20.586 --> 00:19:24.786 had the least amount of shenanigans i had to go through to get it working and 00:19:24.786 --> 00:19:29.986 the combined with the fact that it's packaged upstream so it's really easy to 00:19:29.986 --> 00:19:33.966 get installed the free the free bsd package manager is very serviceable yeah. 00:19:33.966 --> 00:19:35.386 It's just in the port street so you can just. 00:19:35.386 --> 00:19:37.526 No you don't even it's not even you know oh is it packaged i know. 00:19:37.526 --> 00:19:38.506 It is a port too but. 00:19:38.506 --> 00:19:42.786 Yeah yeah yeah but it's a it's in the you can just use package install and it's 00:19:42.786 --> 00:19:46.906 fantastic super easy and you know you just change a couple things and it's up 00:19:46.906 --> 00:19:48.166 and running and you tail scale up it. 00:19:49.666 --> 00:19:52.166 Really impressed. See, every time I, that's the only time I've ever got it working 00:19:52.166 --> 00:19:55.086 on BSD and all of the things which I'll talk about in a minute that I did get 00:19:55.086 --> 00:19:57.806 working, that was the easiest for me. So I agree with you, Brent. 00:19:59.326 --> 00:20:02.866 Getting Tailscale working, I realized I needed access to my password manager, 00:20:03.086 --> 00:20:06.326 which I was like, oh, it's on my hard drive, like local hard drive. 00:20:06.326 --> 00:20:09.866 I had installed GhostBSD to an external hard drive, so I just had to access 00:20:09.866 --> 00:20:12.026 my internal hard drive on the framework. 00:20:12.266 --> 00:20:17.646 No big deal, except I did find out that it was actually a big deal because it's 00:20:17.646 --> 00:20:24.406 Lux encrypted and Lux encryption is not supported by default on the BSDs. 00:20:25.086 --> 00:20:29.166 there is a project i found liblux sd e 00:20:29.166 --> 00:20:32.566 uh which is considered a status experimental 00:20:32.566 --> 00:20:38.406 for lux support and i played with that for far too long and could not get it 00:20:38.406 --> 00:20:43.626 working so another little red flag there i would say if you've got lux encrypted 00:20:43.626 --> 00:20:48.606 disks that is not the standard way to do it on bsd and i could not access mine 00:20:48.606 --> 00:20:51.906 even though i tried and tried and tried and tried In reality. 00:20:52.126 --> 00:20:55.706 If you were a regular BSD user, you'd probably have, you know, this on ZFS. 00:20:56.146 --> 00:20:58.326 You'd be using some, yeah, you wouldn't, you wouldn't be using Lux. 00:20:58.546 --> 00:21:01.286 But during this migration, if you were to move over, it's important to realize 00:21:01.286 --> 00:21:02.706 this is going to be a roadblock. 00:21:03.746 --> 00:21:06.126 So that was a good learning experience. 00:21:06.446 --> 00:21:09.926 Did you, did you consider ZFS native encryption? 00:21:11.246 --> 00:21:15.586 Well, I mean, that's what I used to install GhostBSD. But this was basically 00:21:15.586 --> 00:21:20.146 me testing on my hardware, not wanting to wipe my current hard drive, 00:21:20.266 --> 00:21:22.446 because I would like to use that later. 00:21:23.106 --> 00:21:26.506 You wanted to be able to access already Lux encrypted data. 00:21:27.066 --> 00:21:33.346 Yeah, I mean, what I discovered by trying this week was that a lot of things 00:21:33.346 --> 00:21:38.846 I took for granted by trying Linux distributions were not necessarily true on BSD. 00:21:38.966 --> 00:21:41.366 And that was kind of the whole point of this experiment was, 00:21:41.566 --> 00:21:42.846 what do they do differently? 00:21:43.506 --> 00:21:47.866 Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. You just glanced off, I think, 00:21:47.946 --> 00:21:49.306 one of the key insights of the challenge. 00:21:51.035 --> 00:21:54.955 I think as Linux users, we start to take for granted how much stuff actually 00:21:54.955 --> 00:21:58.875 does work between distributions, commands, things like Lux encryption, 00:21:59.155 --> 00:22:00.455 the file systems in general. 00:22:01.135 --> 00:22:04.895 You can really move between your Ubuntu's and your Fedora's and your Arches 00:22:04.895 --> 00:22:07.075 and your Nix's, and it's really quite manageable. 00:22:07.255 --> 00:22:10.255 Especially if you've been around long enough to know the slight variations you 00:22:10.255 --> 00:22:11.755 need for each flavor or whatever. 00:22:11.975 --> 00:22:14.995 Yeah. But this is truly a different world. 00:22:15.135 --> 00:22:18.315 And some of the things that you relied on that you could just bring over don't work. 00:22:18.415 --> 00:22:21.895 I ran into this too. And there's alternatives, and often they're very clever 00:22:21.895 --> 00:22:24.035 alternatives, but you need to migrate to that. 00:22:24.315 --> 00:22:27.415 It's a different world, and not everything works the same. 00:22:27.575 --> 00:22:32.735 And in that way alone, it's an interesting technical challenge from just distro hopping. 00:22:33.315 --> 00:22:36.195 And I think you were just kind of glancing on that, Brent, but I really think 00:22:36.195 --> 00:22:37.455 that's something to underscore. 00:22:37.835 --> 00:22:41.975 Yeah, and in that way, I don't think a two-week challenge is actually enough 00:22:41.975 --> 00:22:46.555 because there's some tools that map one-to-one. 00:22:47.195 --> 00:22:50.675 But really, if you need to change your entire file system to reach the same 00:22:50.675 --> 00:22:55.115 level of functionality that you previously did, well, maybe that takes a little bit more time. 00:22:55.275 --> 00:23:01.095 And so, yeah, I would agree. A lot of tools I took for granted had a whole new 00:23:01.095 --> 00:23:05.695 way to configure them, a whole new way to use them, sometimes arguably better, 00:23:06.255 --> 00:23:07.415 depending what you value. 00:23:07.895 --> 00:23:11.835 But it just meant I couldn't move very easily from one system to the other. 00:23:12.155 --> 00:23:13.835 So a lot of learning opportunities. 00:23:13.835 --> 00:23:18.895 I do think you're definitely right that, you know, FreeBSD is deep enough that 00:23:18.895 --> 00:23:20.075 you could you could spend it. 00:23:20.175 --> 00:23:23.495 I mean, as long as you like figuring out new and cool ways to use it. 00:23:23.615 --> 00:23:26.835 I kind of went into this thinking, you know, what if I keep one of these systems? 00:23:27.751 --> 00:23:31.171 running ghost or free bsd and uh 00:23:31.171 --> 00:23:35.991 you know what if i just used it ongoing to try different stuff and so i you 00:23:35.991 --> 00:23:38.691 know i'll talk about that when we get to my section but that was kind of my 00:23:38.691 --> 00:23:42.371 mindset when i went into it um we should let's look at your total points though 00:23:42.371 --> 00:23:44.751 brent because you're you're sounding like you're doing pretty good here you 00:23:44.751 --> 00:23:49.811 got yeah i think running you got audio you got okay all right did you total it up. 00:23:49.811 --> 00:23:52.611 Well there are a couple more points here i'll just work through really quickly 00:23:52.611 --> 00:23:57.351 so get tailscale working on bsd system check install and configure a firewall. 00:23:57.931 --> 00:24:00.951 I wasn't very intrigued by that. So I didn't even give it a try, 00:24:01.131 --> 00:24:04.171 even though that probably would have been easy points. So zero for me on that one. 00:24:04.611 --> 00:24:07.591 Didn't you technically have to get PF up and running with a basic rule? 00:24:07.831 --> 00:24:10.491 Oh no. Cause you didn't do jails. Sorry. Nevermind. Nevermind. 00:24:10.571 --> 00:24:14.771 Nope. So I'm going to give myself a fail on that particular point. 00:24:14.951 --> 00:24:17.851 Um, next here, try out two BSDs. 00:24:18.391 --> 00:24:23.131 So that could be net BSD, ghost BSD, free BSD. I certainly did that. So five points there. 00:24:23.711 --> 00:24:28.851 Next BSD, give that a try. That might be next week. So haven't done that yet. Zero points. 00:24:29.351 --> 00:24:32.971 And the last one here, get a non-BSD native video game running. 00:24:33.251 --> 00:24:33.691 Right. 00:24:33.971 --> 00:24:38.531 I will say I took this very hard mode. I did try. 00:24:39.371 --> 00:24:44.931 On the Pi 400 last week, I tried to get Steam going, which I understand is a very bad idea. 00:24:47.211 --> 00:24:47.831 All right. 00:24:48.011 --> 00:24:48.931 Good man. Good man. 00:24:49.071 --> 00:24:51.251 Let's total it up here. All right. What's your total? 00:24:51.771 --> 00:24:55.051 Well, here's where I have to fight for some points. You suggested that I should 00:24:55.051 --> 00:24:59.551 get 0.5 points for my record audio from your working desktop, 00:24:59.551 --> 00:25:02.011 but I'm going to push back on this one a little bit. 00:25:02.391 --> 00:25:07.231 Question, how did it sound if you played audio? 00:25:07.591 --> 00:25:10.551 Because if that worked cleanly, then that sounds like more points. 00:25:10.891 --> 00:25:13.971 Like playing audio from any audio source sounded perfectly fine. 00:25:14.131 --> 00:25:16.491 Playing that audio sounded identical. 00:25:16.911 --> 00:25:21.011 So it was definitely a recording issue, but audio worked out of the box. 00:25:21.251 --> 00:25:24.111 I will concede, and for the full point for the audio, because I think... 00:25:25.878 --> 00:25:28.578 The rules didn't say how good the audio has to be. 00:25:28.698 --> 00:25:29.018 That's true. 00:25:29.118 --> 00:25:31.498 Which is something maybe we keep in consideration for the next chapter. 00:25:31.598 --> 00:25:33.678 I'm being a bit of a purist here. Yeah, you're right. 00:25:33.778 --> 00:25:36.858 We did not say, we just said you had to be able to record audio. 00:25:36.998 --> 00:25:38.758 As usual, the problem is in the spec. 00:25:39.038 --> 00:25:43.318 Well, here's my argument. This particular line has two aspects to it. 00:25:43.398 --> 00:25:45.338 Record audio from a working desktop. 00:25:45.558 --> 00:25:47.658 So I think working desktop, I get a full point. 00:25:47.918 --> 00:25:50.878 And record audio, I think I should get a half point for that. 00:25:51.658 --> 00:25:54.938 No, I was going to give you the full point. Well, I know you were, 00:25:55.018 --> 00:25:57.738 but let's keep this interesting. So I think 1.5. 00:25:57.958 --> 00:26:00.458 You were going to give me 0.5. I want to argue for 1.5. 00:26:00.798 --> 00:26:03.578 Oh, I see. I like this. All right, I see, because it's a double, 00:26:03.778 --> 00:26:04.898 because you compounded it. 00:26:04.958 --> 00:26:05.438 It's true. 00:26:05.738 --> 00:26:10.118 All right, let me do the math again. Okay, and have you done your totals? 00:26:10.258 --> 00:26:11.198 Let's see if, what do you have? 00:26:11.418 --> 00:26:16.218 Well, my total here, it looks like if I've done this live properly, 25 and a half. 00:26:16.598 --> 00:26:18.458 Oh, 25 points. 00:26:18.678 --> 00:26:20.618 Yeah, let's see you guys beat that one. 00:26:20.618 --> 00:26:21.718 I don't. 00:26:21.718 --> 00:26:25.998 Know what the rubric should be but it sounds very impressive and you've definitely beaten me. 00:26:25.998 --> 00:26:29.798 Yeah that is that might be hard to beat I don't know if I'm going to do it oh 00:26:29.798 --> 00:26:32.518 boy okay all right well I'm going to need you you'll have to keep track of my 00:26:32.518 --> 00:26:35.658 points because I don't think I totaled mine up but I like this compounding point 00:26:35.658 --> 00:26:37.338 idea you may have just set precedent we'll see, 00:26:41.698 --> 00:26:47.278 onepassword.com slash unplugged that's all lowercase it's the number one onepassword.com 00:26:47.278 --> 00:26:52.378 slash unplugged okay let's be real Honestly, do your end users always, 00:26:52.578 --> 00:26:54.558 and I mean without exception, 00:26:54.898 --> 00:26:57.698 work on company-owned devices and approved apps? 00:26:58.358 --> 00:27:04.218 Probably not, right? So how do you keep your company's data safe when it's sitting 00:27:04.218 --> 00:27:06.698 in all these unmanaged apps and unmanaged devices? 00:27:07.538 --> 00:27:10.818 That's where 1Password Extended Access Management comes in. 00:27:10.958 --> 00:27:14.858 1Password Extended Access Management helps you secure every sign-in on every 00:27:14.858 --> 00:27:21.158 app for every device because it solves the problems that traditional IAMs and MDMs just can't touch. 00:27:21.318 --> 00:27:25.638 It's really the first security solution that brings all these unmanaged devices, 00:27:25.858 --> 00:27:29.458 apps, identities, like your vendors, under your control. 00:27:29.978 --> 00:27:33.378 It ensures that every user credential is strong and protected. 00:27:33.498 --> 00:27:38.278 Every device is known and healthy, and every app is visible. 00:27:39.663 --> 00:27:44.463 You know, when I worked in IT, I saw users try to solve their password management 00:27:44.463 --> 00:27:48.463 problem in the worst ways, in a spreadsheet, under the keyboard. 00:27:49.963 --> 00:27:55.743 I saw a lot under the keyboard. Oh, they just didn't have a viable option. 00:27:56.243 --> 00:28:00.483 And one password famously solved that. But now extended access management, 00:28:00.663 --> 00:28:02.923 it solves these much larger problems now. 00:28:03.263 --> 00:28:06.403 Things that we just weren't really thinking about back in the day. 00:28:06.783 --> 00:28:10.183 And now it's security for the way we work today. And the great thing is it's 00:28:10.183 --> 00:28:12.923 generally available for companies that have Okta or Microsoft Entra, 00:28:12.983 --> 00:28:15.823 and it isn't beta for Google Workspace customers as well. 00:28:16.123 --> 00:28:21.483 So go to 1Password.com slash unplugged. Go see why 1Password is the award-winning 00:28:21.483 --> 00:28:27.243 password manager trusted by millions of users and over 150,000 businesses from IBM to Slack. 00:28:27.263 --> 00:28:30.603 And now you're securing more than just passwords with 1Password. 00:28:30.723 --> 00:28:34.483 Go get 1Password Extended Access Management and support the show. 00:28:34.643 --> 00:28:39.543 So get started. Go to 1Password.com slash unplugged. That is the number one 00:28:39.543 --> 00:28:45.483 password dot com slash unplugged one password dot com slash unplugged. 00:28:48.763 --> 00:28:54.623 Well, Wes, I'm curious to hear how your week went. Did you do as I did and BSD this week? 00:28:55.023 --> 00:28:59.683 I did. I did run into a slight complication. I was dealing with a bit of an 00:28:59.683 --> 00:29:04.763 illness, so I didn't get to spend as much time in the BSD universe as I wanted. 00:29:04.763 --> 00:29:09.743 but I did, of course, end up having a lot of fun. So, let's see. 00:29:10.343 --> 00:29:12.343 Maybe we can look through the 00:29:12.343 --> 00:29:16.123 challenge rules again. Brent, you nicely summarized yours, but I did not. 00:29:17.043 --> 00:29:21.143 I definitely installed BSD, no problem. I got it running on a VPS. 00:29:21.643 --> 00:29:25.223 I got it running in a VM on my laptop. 00:29:25.443 --> 00:29:25.603 Okay. 00:29:25.983 --> 00:29:32.523 And this part I didn't get to do as much with as I wanted, but I did get it booted on my T480. 00:29:32.743 --> 00:29:34.763 Oh, nice. There's some decent points here. 00:29:35.083 --> 00:29:39.303 Yeah. I did not manage to get audio working. I think I definitely could have. 00:29:39.463 --> 00:29:42.983 It was probably my fault on the host platform side in terms of the VM. 00:29:43.163 --> 00:29:46.983 And then in the hardware mode, it seems like it should have been supported. 00:29:47.023 --> 00:29:49.663 I think I just didn't actually manage to enable the right thing. 00:29:49.683 --> 00:29:50.983 You actually have to turn it on. Yeah. 00:29:51.263 --> 00:29:53.243 And I just didn't have enough time to quite get across that. 00:29:53.263 --> 00:29:57.123 One of my systems, it saw the devices, but it wouldn't play anything unless 00:29:57.123 --> 00:30:01.103 I implicitly went into like rc.conf and did like sound equals on or whatever. 00:30:01.323 --> 00:30:02.963 And then the devices could play sound. 00:30:03.905 --> 00:30:06.025 I did want to touch on just, I 00:30:06.025 --> 00:30:11.985 think it's neat that the BSDs still kind of have the whole C shell thing. 00:30:12.545 --> 00:30:17.745 It's just a different Unix heritage that you really don't see in the Linux side of things. 00:30:18.025 --> 00:30:20.665 I did ultimately just end up installing Fish because I love Fish, 00:30:20.705 --> 00:30:24.885 but I used the C shell for a bit, TCSH. 00:30:25.205 --> 00:30:28.385 All right. I mean, you're doing better than I thought for somebody who was down 00:30:28.385 --> 00:30:29.305 with the plague for the week. 00:30:29.305 --> 00:30:35.685 I did also manage to get one server or service running, which meant I did have to set up a firewall. 00:30:35.885 --> 00:30:39.665 I did manage to lock myself out of the VPS briefly while playing with firewalls. 00:30:39.905 --> 00:30:40.125 Nice. 00:30:40.425 --> 00:30:44.105 Also, like what? There's like three firewalls that you get to choose between. 00:30:44.405 --> 00:30:48.325 Obviously, there's PF, which came from OpenBSD, which got a port to FreeBSD. 00:30:48.405 --> 00:30:50.445 And then there's the IPFW, which is the one I tried. 00:30:50.625 --> 00:30:52.225 Oh, OK. I did PF. Interesting. 00:30:52.605 --> 00:30:54.505 I didn't do anything crazy with it. I'd like to play with it more, 00:30:54.605 --> 00:30:57.945 but that wasn't bad. Totally reasonable to use. Well documented. 00:30:58.045 --> 00:30:58.805 No problem. Yeah. 00:30:58.805 --> 00:31:00.725 I got Jellyfin running. 00:31:01.065 --> 00:31:03.825 Oh, that's a good point. So remote service working. 00:31:03.985 --> 00:31:07.185 That one I just ran on the host, but I did manage to set up a jail. 00:31:07.185 --> 00:31:13.945 I didn't do a ton with it, but I just ran a little built-in Python web server, 00:31:14.385 --> 00:31:19.965 and then I added in a ZFS dataset from the host. 00:31:20.565 --> 00:31:24.825 So that was my little mock. Oh, this is kind of the container-y thing I would try to do. 00:31:24.885 --> 00:31:27.045 I want to spend more time with that. I didn't get Podman going, 00:31:27.045 --> 00:31:29.045 although that seemed quite promising. 00:31:29.045 --> 00:31:31.685 Well all of a sudden I feel like I'm not doing so well here. 00:31:32.526 --> 00:31:35.706 Well, a lot of this I managed to do the previous week, sort of, 00:31:35.786 --> 00:31:37.366 because I was doing a lot of the servery stuff first. 00:31:37.466 --> 00:31:38.526 Before the plague really struck you? 00:31:38.586 --> 00:31:42.106 Yes. So I did manage to get Tailscale going. 00:31:42.386 --> 00:31:42.746 Oh, yeah. 00:31:42.746 --> 00:31:44.726 I just did the ports version, because I saw that was in there. 00:31:44.826 --> 00:31:47.466 I'm glad that you got to try that, because we didn't try the ports version, so that's cool. 00:31:47.786 --> 00:31:52.626 That worked fine. I did not end up trying GhostBSD or NetBSD or OpenBSD, 00:31:52.686 --> 00:31:55.486 so I don't get any extra BSD points. FreeBSD only. 00:31:55.866 --> 00:31:57.206 Are you tallying up right? 00:31:57.206 --> 00:31:57.846 I'm tallying. 00:31:58.066 --> 00:31:58.186 Yeah. 00:31:59.186 --> 00:32:03.106 Sadly no video gaming or uh nix bsd okay. 00:32:03.106 --> 00:32:06.786 Okay all right that might be something we come back to sometime i could see 00:32:06.786 --> 00:32:09.526 it's maybe all three of us revisiting that implicitly. 00:32:09.526 --> 00:32:13.586 I did try to play briefly with the linux compatibility mode. 00:32:13.586 --> 00:32:14.286 Oh yeah okay. 00:32:14.286 --> 00:32:20.126 I got reaper to launch oh in a vm oh but the audio stuff wasn't working so it 00:32:20.126 --> 00:32:23.466 didn't actually do anything for me and i don't i'd seen other people report 00:32:23.466 --> 00:32:26.086 that like crashed trying to pick the audio device so i don't know if it would 00:32:26.206 --> 00:32:32.486 worked i did get ardor working because that has a port um but once again i because 00:32:32.486 --> 00:32:35.846 i didn't get the audio parts all i didn't quite get that was the last stuff i was working on i. 00:32:35.846 --> 00:32:40.066 Think i was passively using linux compatibility during uh my challenge which 00:32:40.066 --> 00:32:42.926 i'll talk about i didn't actively use it but i think some of the software i 00:32:42.926 --> 00:32:44.126 was using was relying on it. 00:32:44.126 --> 00:32:48.046 And you know that should be another big point in freebsd's favor if we're telling 00:32:48.046 --> 00:32:53.246 in those twos because like windows had to basically copy this with WSL v1. 00:32:53.346 --> 00:32:56.386 That's a great point. And then they ended up pivoting to a virtualization layer, 00:32:56.586 --> 00:32:58.826 whereas FreeBSDs, I mean, they've got their own virtualization layer, 00:32:58.926 --> 00:33:01.966 but also, you know, their compatibility mode's working pretty well. 00:33:02.146 --> 00:33:02.286 Yeah. 00:33:02.766 --> 00:33:06.506 And they have different goals, and obviously they have a kernel that's a lot 00:33:06.506 --> 00:33:10.046 closer in many ways to Linux than the, you know, NT kernel is. 00:33:11.486 --> 00:33:15.886 So part of the problem, not problem, but I got, I thought it would be funny 00:33:15.886 --> 00:33:21.126 if I could manage to get FreeBSD running on the ThinkPad and then show up to the studio, 00:33:21.786 --> 00:33:27.266 looking like I was running Windows but running Windows via Beehive because I 00:33:27.266 --> 00:33:31.006 saw that it's possible and I actually got the installer going but I must have 00:33:31.006 --> 00:33:34.126 done something wrong because when Windows booted it wasn't happy about some 00:33:34.126 --> 00:33:36.626 sort of driver thing so I got to play with that more. 00:33:37.346 --> 00:33:44.386 That would have been hilarious You did pretty good I don't know if it's 25 points but it's. 00:33:44.386 --> 00:33:46.626 Close I have a clarifying question here. 00:33:46.626 --> 00:33:47.066 Wes. 00:33:47.246 --> 00:33:49.046 Did you get a desktop up and running? 00:33:49.686 --> 00:33:52.646 Oh, yes, yes. So in playing with 00:33:52.646 --> 00:33:55.446 Beehive and eventually trying to get that going, I did get Plasma going. 00:33:55.826 --> 00:33:56.986 Ah, good, good, good. 00:33:57.226 --> 00:34:00.786 I didn't get, it wasn't like a fully featured, it was a pretty bare bones sort of Plasma setup. 00:34:00.866 --> 00:34:02.346 527 release and all that. 00:34:02.466 --> 00:34:02.706 Yes. 00:34:02.906 --> 00:34:03.026 Yeah. 00:34:03.466 --> 00:34:09.006 So it seems on the same point item here, we might have a split. 00:34:09.006 --> 00:34:11.846 So you did not record any audio, but you did get a desktop going. 00:34:11.946 --> 00:34:13.206 So did you get one point for that one? 00:34:13.886 --> 00:34:14.726 Yeah, all right. 00:34:16.352 --> 00:34:17.592 So, okay, I think that's fair. 00:34:18.052 --> 00:34:22.392 So total here for Wes looks like 20 big BSD points. 00:34:22.592 --> 00:34:24.152 Hey, that is better than I thought I might do. 00:34:24.272 --> 00:34:27.692 Congratulations, Wes. I honestly, you know, I thought this would be the one. 00:34:27.952 --> 00:34:30.492 I really thought this would be the one where one of us would, 00:34:30.892 --> 00:34:33.612 I mean, maybe I won't make 20. We'll see. Maybe I'm the Windows user. 00:34:33.852 --> 00:34:37.392 I think I feel just a little bit like maybe letdown's the wrong. 00:34:37.572 --> 00:34:39.972 I think Brent's phrasing of this isn't enough time because like, 00:34:40.712 --> 00:34:43.932 I played a bit with like when I was setting things up with like Gpart and some 00:34:43.932 --> 00:34:46.592 of the ways that FreeBSD does storage on that layer. 00:34:46.992 --> 00:34:50.372 But then FreeBSD has also got the whole Geom framework. 00:34:50.952 --> 00:34:55.092 That's really cool. Obviously, they've got tons of ZFS integrations and all 00:34:55.092 --> 00:34:58.472 the boot environment stuff, which I didn't really get to play with in any real 00:34:58.472 --> 00:35:00.652 way besides them just sort of existing. 00:35:01.652 --> 00:35:05.032 So I'm left with there's a lot more that I want to dabble in. 00:35:05.492 --> 00:35:10.312 Yeah, actually, there's a couple of reasons why I feel like there's more to dabble in. 00:35:10.512 --> 00:35:14.192 First of all, there's FreeBSD 15, which we could talk about. 00:35:14.572 --> 00:35:14.892 Oh, yeah. 00:35:15.132 --> 00:35:20.692 Hank wrote in, and he got FreeBSD 15 working on his Pi 4, which we were having 00:35:20.692 --> 00:35:22.652 troubles with the 14.2 release. 00:35:22.732 --> 00:35:26.392 He says, I've got FreeBSD 15 current running headless, but not before I applied 00:35:26.392 --> 00:35:27.692 a tweak, which he links us to. 00:35:27.892 --> 00:35:32.272 I got lucky. This was posted two days before I gave it a go. That's not fair. 00:35:32.672 --> 00:35:36.312 He got really lucky. I installed it on a 4-gigabyte Pi 4B. 00:35:36.552 --> 00:35:39.232 I'm not sure if I'm going to enter the challenge. I have no interest in a desktop 00:35:39.232 --> 00:35:43.492 or FreeBSD, but I just wanted to see if the ZFS corruption bug I'm working on also affects FreeBSD. 00:35:43.952 --> 00:35:47.052 And it looks like it does. Oh, I'd like to know more about that, Hank. 00:35:47.712 --> 00:35:50.552 He says, so I lose points for no desktop environment, but I feel like I should 00:35:50.552 --> 00:35:54.232 get points for doing real work on FreeBSD. Yeah. 00:35:54.532 --> 00:35:54.892 Fair. 00:35:55.172 --> 00:35:59.712 That is fair. IMHO, we should get a point just for figuring out how to configure 00:35:59.712 --> 00:36:01.812 NTP in the time zone. I agree. 00:36:02.252 --> 00:36:04.292 I agree 100%. 00:36:06.032 --> 00:36:06.392 Yeah. 00:36:06.672 --> 00:36:10.352 So what are we giving Hank here? Install BSD, get online, that's two points. 00:36:10.552 --> 00:36:14.412 NTP, I think we'd give him that one for another two points. That's at least four points. 00:36:14.752 --> 00:36:17.552 Yeah, and I think we give him five at least for doing real work. 00:36:17.772 --> 00:36:22.032 All right, five for real work. So that looks like nine points at least. 00:36:22.272 --> 00:36:25.072 Not bad for, and you know, and for writing in, we give him another point. 00:36:25.132 --> 00:36:27.712 Let's round it up for another point. He gets 10 points. There you go, Hank. 00:36:28.392 --> 00:36:28.432 10 points for Hank. 00:36:28.432 --> 00:36:31.992 Thanks, Hank. 10 points for Hank. All right, so let me tell you about my challenge. 00:36:32.432 --> 00:36:36.552 Started off the first week pretty good, just using good old classic free BSD. 00:36:37.252 --> 00:36:41.192 One of my early wins was tail scale. I was really impressed with that. 00:36:41.903 --> 00:36:45.923 Before I left the FreeBSD world, though, I did want to get my remote service 00:36:45.923 --> 00:36:49.103 working. And because I thought, why not do it the hard way? 00:36:49.583 --> 00:36:52.123 I wanted to see what it would be like to get it working with Podman. 00:36:52.383 --> 00:36:54.343 Oh, yeah. I'm glad one of us got to go down this. 00:36:54.823 --> 00:36:59.743 And so the first Podman container I tried to run after you. So you install Podman. 00:36:59.883 --> 00:37:01.723 I think you have to install a lot of the Linux. That's why I was saying the 00:37:01.723 --> 00:37:03.203 Linux compatibility stuff gets installed. 00:37:04.003 --> 00:37:08.863 You do have to set up PF. So I had to set up a firewall in there and do some 00:37:08.863 --> 00:37:12.643 basic network routing. so that way my containers could communicate with my Ethernet. 00:37:12.643 --> 00:37:14.803 Right, you wanted other things to be able to access it. 00:37:14.963 --> 00:37:19.443 And I'm really impressed. I mean, I think it may have literally been one line 00:37:19.443 --> 00:37:22.003 of config for PF to do this, maybe two. 00:37:22.343 --> 00:37:25.403 It might have been two lines of config. And then I had to start the PF service 00:37:25.403 --> 00:37:26.963 and enable it to come on at boot. 00:37:27.523 --> 00:37:30.423 And I think there's like a one line in rc.conf I had to add. 00:37:30.543 --> 00:37:35.843 I think we're like finally getting closer to this with nftables in some ways at least. 00:37:36.363 --> 00:37:39.763 But yeah, there's a reason Docker does a whole bunch of IP tables commands under 00:37:39.763 --> 00:37:42.883 the hood. And you don't when you set up a container on Linux. 00:37:44.103 --> 00:37:49.563 However, Jellyfin, I got an error. And it was basically complaining of the wrong architecture. 00:37:49.743 --> 00:37:53.523 It says the architecture either needs to be AMD64 or FreeBSD. 00:37:53.723 --> 00:37:57.063 And they didn't have a FreeBSD architecture available. 00:37:57.503 --> 00:38:00.903 I didn't really dig into this too much further because I, A, 00:38:00.983 --> 00:38:03.303 figured I probably could have just installed it locally. And B... 00:38:04.414 --> 00:38:08.314 realized i don't need another jellyfin server so pivoted 00:38:08.314 --> 00:38:11.254 and i went and got vs code the podman 00:38:11.254 --> 00:38:14.074 container for vs code up for the server version yeah 00:38:14.074 --> 00:38:19.754 for the web version of vs vs code running via podman on freebsd and you better 00:38:19.754 --> 00:38:23.574 you better believe it worked great i i like i said i had to get pf working before 00:38:23.574 --> 00:38:27.014 i could actually pull it up in another on another computer on the land but once 00:38:27.014 --> 00:38:31.214 i did i was able to pull up visual studio code editor on all my machines on 00:38:31.214 --> 00:38:33.354 the land running off FreeBSD on Podman. 00:38:33.934 --> 00:38:35.614 Oh, that is neat. 00:38:35.734 --> 00:38:40.154 It was great. And, you know, for the most part, I was able to troubleshoot all 00:38:40.154 --> 00:38:41.394 of the errors relatively quickly. 00:38:42.234 --> 00:38:51.074 So I enjoyed that and used it for a little bit and moved on to GhostBSD, which is fantastic. 00:38:51.394 --> 00:38:55.574 These guys are really cooking. If you want to check out the BSD desktop world, 00:38:55.854 --> 00:38:57.194 just go right to GhostBSD. 00:38:58.154 --> 00:39:01.814 Mate Armate looking great. It auto detects your video. If that fails, 00:39:01.994 --> 00:39:06.634 it brings up a nice end curses-like UI to select your GPU drivers and then continues to boot. 00:39:07.214 --> 00:39:13.814 If you use their sort of relatively synaptic-like basic package manager GUI, 00:39:13.934 --> 00:39:20.374 it also lets you auto-create boot environment backups using ZFS that then get added to the boot menu. 00:39:20.754 --> 00:39:21.314 Slick. 00:39:21.454 --> 00:39:26.534 To make it easy to roll back at a reboot. Really like that. and a decent selection 00:39:26.534 --> 00:39:35.114 of packages, which meant, boys, it is so easy to get retro gaming going on Ghost BSD. 00:39:35.414 --> 00:39:39.874 And I'll link to a couple of wiki entries on this. If you're an old school gamer, 00:39:40.234 --> 00:39:44.394 really, you're going to have no problem on a free BSD, Ghost BSD setup. 00:39:44.834 --> 00:39:50.174 Packaged in there, right there, is a great NES and SNES emulator. 00:39:50.174 --> 00:39:56.334 So I was able to get SNES and NES games running no problem on FreeBSD, 00:39:56.394 --> 00:39:58.194 which is a non-native FreeBSD game check. 00:39:58.899 --> 00:40:02.059 And follow some of the wiki stuff to get other things installed. 00:40:02.219 --> 00:40:05.359 Just playing around. I also got Wine installed. And I came across. 00:40:05.839 --> 00:40:10.679 How do you think I say this, Wes? It's M-I-Z-U-T-A-M-A-R-I. 00:40:11.819 --> 00:40:12.379 Mizutamari? 00:40:13.099 --> 00:40:17.799 Yeah. Okay. This is really neat to see. 00:40:17.959 --> 00:40:23.839 It's an open source, user-friendly Wine front end built for FreeBSD. 00:40:24.079 --> 00:40:24.639 Wow. 00:40:24.639 --> 00:40:29.399 So we have a community out there that is building user-facing desktop applications 00:40:29.399 --> 00:40:33.359 that are designed to make things just easier to get up and going. 00:40:33.839 --> 00:40:37.899 We've seen versions of this. You know, Bottles is a fantastic version of this on Linux. 00:40:38.319 --> 00:40:42.319 And it's a wine front end that gives you a GUI. It's pretty much just all bash 00:40:42.319 --> 00:40:46.039 scripts on the back end, but it gives you a GUI with a predefined library of applications. 00:40:46.359 --> 00:40:52.039 So I was able to get things from like Angry Birds to common Windows applications installed. 00:40:52.039 --> 00:40:54.899 installed it automatically handles the 32-bit package stuff 00:40:54.899 --> 00:40:57.579 that you might need it knows some of the things it needs to do 00:40:57.579 --> 00:41:00.219 to get it working on free bsd like a little bit of a like there's like a 00:41:00.219 --> 00:41:03.059 memory patch thing it does that you don't have to do on linux they take 00:41:03.059 --> 00:41:05.919 care of that they also make it easy to access things 00:41:05.919 --> 00:41:09.259 so once you get the application installed you get a sub menu to like access 00:41:09.259 --> 00:41:11.899 wine tricks or execute the application or browse the 00:41:11.899 --> 00:41:15.219 file system where it's at like you can manage the wine applications once 00:41:15.219 --> 00:41:17.899 they're installed with this application so i was able 00:41:17.899 --> 00:41:20.819 to get lots of things up and going through wine just as an experiment 00:41:20.819 --> 00:41:26.299 and the interface is really simple but fully effective and it's packaged at 00:41:26.299 --> 00:41:33.139 least it was on ghost bsd you can just do package install m-i-z-u-m-a and i 00:41:33.139 --> 00:41:36.179 think that was the package and it'll install and you can just run it and you're 00:41:36.179 --> 00:41:39.779 cooking with wine and a bunch of good old retro games too so that was nice. 00:41:39.779 --> 00:41:42.619 I didn't even think about trying that that is slick. 00:41:42.619 --> 00:41:47.819 I really had no idea if wine would work you know i i imagine the Linux compatibility 00:41:47.819 --> 00:41:50.439 stuff that I already had installed for Podman might have helped. 00:41:51.220 --> 00:41:51.900 I have no idea. 00:41:51.960 --> 00:41:56.460 Yeah, is it using that? Or do they have a version that just hooks into the necessary 00:41:56.460 --> 00:41:59.660 things on the FreeBSD side? Either way, very impressive. 00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:03.280 Okay, Brent, have you been tallying up my score as I go along? 00:42:03.640 --> 00:42:07.200 Well, reluctantly, because Wes, I think he might be pulling ahead here. 00:42:07.420 --> 00:42:07.960 Oh, really? 00:42:08.220 --> 00:42:08.840 That's fair. That's fair. 00:42:09.000 --> 00:42:09.600 Okay, what are we at? 00:42:09.700 --> 00:42:12.720 He's got a Podman-based VS Code server. I'm going to give it to him. 00:42:14.740 --> 00:42:19.820 And while he's not working on his fancy coding stuff, he's retro gaming. 00:42:20.280 --> 00:42:20.660 Jeez. 00:42:23.040 --> 00:42:27.100 Like we were together this week and i don't know where you fit all this in so 00:42:27.100 --> 00:42:32.840 i have a question for you sneaky did you get any audio recorded chris i did 00:42:32.840 --> 00:42:38.400 not get audio recorded all right so maybe you get half points yeah i did get audio. 00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:40.860 I got audio playback once i enabled sound. 00:42:40.860 --> 00:42:42.620 But i never got audio recorded. 00:42:42.620 --> 00:42:43.640 Yeah i know. 00:42:43.640 --> 00:42:46.800 Okay so let's see here install bsd two 00:42:46.800 --> 00:42:49.460 points there for you record audio and get it working from a 00:42:49.460 --> 00:42:52.780 desktop half points you get one point there uh get 00:42:52.780 --> 00:42:56.120 a service running you get two full points now 00:42:56.120 --> 00:42:59.280 moving ahead podman you got going so that's five points 00:42:59.280 --> 00:43:02.060 install a firewall well you had to do that too that's 00:43:02.060 --> 00:43:04.940 another five points oh get tail scale 00:43:04.940 --> 00:43:09.520 working yep five points there for you try out two bsds you sure did that that's 00:43:09.520 --> 00:43:13.580 another five points you did not try nick's bsd right correct correct correct 00:43:13.580 --> 00:43:17.480 correct so zero points i think we have got some homework there for later uh 00:43:17.480 --> 00:43:21.400 get a non-bsd native video game running You are the only one to complete that 00:43:21.400 --> 00:43:23.620 one. That's another five points for a total. 00:43:24.760 --> 00:43:27.140 Let me see here. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah. 00:43:27.380 --> 00:43:28.980 Doing the math, doing the math, doing the math. 00:43:29.300 --> 00:43:30.100 Total of? 00:43:32.311 --> 00:43:34.011 30 BSD points. 00:43:35.251 --> 00:43:35.611 Whoa! 00:43:37.911 --> 00:43:44.671 So that's 30 BSD points for Chris, 25 for Brent, 20 for Wes, and, well, Hank got 10. 00:43:45.611 --> 00:43:47.851 Not bad at all, boys. And I know 00:43:47.851 --> 00:43:49.711 we have probably some in the booths we're going to be getting to as well. 00:43:49.831 --> 00:43:55.331 I think for the next challenge, the rule should be whoever gets the lowest points has to run Windows. 00:43:55.451 --> 00:43:58.431 Wes, that wasn't the rule this time. The rule was if you had to bail. 00:43:58.451 --> 00:43:59.171 Yeah, I squeaked it out, I think. 00:43:59.191 --> 00:44:03.231 Yeah, if you had to bail. I think we change it to lowest points at least amongst 00:44:03.231 --> 00:44:04.371 the three of us has to run Windows. 00:44:04.911 --> 00:44:06.571 I agree completely with that one. 00:44:06.811 --> 00:44:09.591 I want to hear how the audience did, so I do want to hear people's boost reports. 00:44:09.871 --> 00:44:12.651 I also think that means we're going to need another challenge, right? 00:44:12.851 --> 00:44:15.751 Yeah, and we definitely need some suggestions on our next challenge. 00:44:15.851 --> 00:44:18.071 These are a lot of fun and it gets us out of our comfort zone. 00:44:18.571 --> 00:44:22.151 This one in particular, it got us out of our comfort zone in a way that I haven't 00:44:22.151 --> 00:44:23.371 been in a while and I loved it. 00:44:23.471 --> 00:44:26.831 And it felt good and it was really nice to check in with the BSDs. 00:44:27.131 --> 00:44:31.111 I feel like Ghost BSD is kind of a star here, obviously because I'm coming at 00:44:31.111 --> 00:44:32.251 it from a Linux user's perspective. 00:44:32.531 --> 00:44:35.571 I would love to know if you're a FreeBSD purist out there and you're listening, 00:44:35.631 --> 00:44:39.351 are you rolling your eyes when I talk on about GhostBSD? Is there like a thing there? 00:44:39.551 --> 00:44:42.911 I don't know how active it is, but they did have a release in 2024. 00:44:43.031 --> 00:44:45.771 Did any of us try? I did not. Hello system? 00:44:46.031 --> 00:44:47.671 No, I forgot about that. 00:44:47.991 --> 00:44:49.031 That'd be another follow-up maybe. 00:44:49.211 --> 00:44:53.251 So check this out though. GhostBSD is, quote, making some important changes 00:44:53.251 --> 00:44:58.431 to how GhostBSD is built and released to provide a better, more stable experience for our users. 00:44:59.091 --> 00:45:03.451 So they're switching to the free BSD release, future Ghost BSD versions will 00:45:03.451 --> 00:45:06.451 be based on free BSD release instead of stable. 00:45:06.631 --> 00:45:10.831 This will improve stability, reduce unexpected issues, and allow us to focus 00:45:10.831 --> 00:45:13.311 on more software updates and tool development. 00:45:13.971 --> 00:45:20.111 Aligning with free BSD's release schedule, Ghost BSD releases will now be planned 00:45:20.111 --> 00:45:26.151 for the same month as free BSD releases, ensuring better synchronization with free BSD updates. 00:45:26.471 --> 00:45:28.751 Sounds like a big change, but also sounds good. 00:45:28.931 --> 00:45:31.931 Yeah, it sounds really good. I think the project's got a good future. 00:45:32.031 --> 00:45:35.231 They got a nice desktop. I mean, the only thing is can they handle the workload, but, 00:45:36.164 --> 00:45:40.084 They're on top of it. So one of my takeaways is if you're a Linux desktop user 00:45:40.084 --> 00:45:42.724 and you just want to dip your toe, just start with GhostBSD. 00:45:42.864 --> 00:45:46.004 And you got a good free BSD system with a lot of the heavy lift on. 00:45:46.224 --> 00:45:49.104 But if you want to build it up from the, you know, sort of the bolts, 00:45:49.504 --> 00:45:50.624 then you start with free BSD proper. 00:45:51.964 --> 00:45:54.864 I have to say a huge thank you to our community. You listeners, 00:45:55.024 --> 00:45:57.004 you were BSDing right there alongside us. 00:45:57.144 --> 00:46:01.624 We have a couple I'd like to mention here. So we did have Vic, 00:46:01.824 --> 00:46:05.224 who ran it on a RockPro 64, 00:46:05.624 --> 00:46:11.424 XFCE that is, got some audio recorded, and also hosted a piehole in Podman along 00:46:11.424 --> 00:46:14.864 with Tailscale and DOSBox. So impressive. 00:46:16.204 --> 00:46:22.684 SUCD also used FreeBSD via Proxmox, recorded some audio, and got a Spice console 00:46:22.684 --> 00:46:26.784 working and a bunch of other Spice fanciness. So very, very fancy. 00:46:27.544 --> 00:46:28.944 Code Compost. 00:46:29.764 --> 00:46:35.144 maybe the fanciest of all, shared a file of a desktop with us on a Nextcloud 00:46:35.144 --> 00:46:40.164 instance, running a jail, routed through a Raspberry Pi 4, running Caddy in 00:46:40.164 --> 00:46:41.764 a jail as a reverse proxy. 00:46:42.444 --> 00:46:45.584 Screenshot is the main desktop running tail scale on the very same machine. 00:46:45.584 --> 00:46:47.604 How many points does that get them? 00:46:47.764 --> 00:46:49.224 I'm going to say at least 30. 00:46:50.344 --> 00:46:52.644 Let's say 31 because I beat Chris out. 00:46:52.964 --> 00:46:53.524 There we go. 00:46:55.099 --> 00:46:59.259 So thank you for everyone for playing along with us. It was super fun and sharing 00:46:59.259 --> 00:47:00.639 what you learned and your struggles. 00:47:01.399 --> 00:47:06.339 Now we do have Sheetman here who is in Mumble via FreeBSD. 00:47:06.499 --> 00:47:09.939 Sheetman, what was your FreeBSD experience like? 00:47:10.219 --> 00:47:16.739 So I installed FreeBSD on a 2014 MacBook Air and discovered that its Wi-Fi card 00:47:16.739 --> 00:47:17.999 was not supported at all. 00:47:18.119 --> 00:47:23.039 So I pulled out my old 2011 and I got that running, had to recompile the kernel, 00:47:23.039 --> 00:47:29.499 but I do have working Broadcom Wi-Fi and Plasma, and the whole darn show works perfectly. 00:47:30.379 --> 00:47:34.799 It's a useful system. It was built for BSD, and I'm keeping it this way. 00:47:35.099 --> 00:47:37.179 Well done. You're right. It's true to its heritage that way. 00:47:38.999 --> 00:47:40.399 That's really great. Thank you, Sheep Man. 00:47:41.119 --> 00:47:44.619 Just because our challenge is over doesn't mean we don't want to hear your experiences. 00:47:44.619 --> 00:47:46.959 If you're still trying it out there or you give it a go and you're listening 00:47:46.959 --> 00:47:49.419 after the fact, you can still totally let us know how it goes. 00:47:49.419 --> 00:47:50.379 We love hearing the adventures. 00:47:50.379 --> 00:47:53.219 Yeah, it's really made it kind of a special little event. 00:47:58.639 --> 00:48:01.379 You know what? Adversary 17 deserves this one. 00:48:01.819 --> 00:48:06.379 Very reliable, consistent supporter of the shows. And they get the baller booster 00:48:06.379 --> 00:48:08.679 spot this week with 20,000 sats. 00:48:12.499 --> 00:48:13.379 That's a good guy. 00:48:16.639 --> 00:48:19.779 Regarding transcripts, I listened to the bootlegs, So please don't worry about 00:48:19.779 --> 00:48:21.919 it for the bootleg feed. Sounds like a ton of work. 00:48:22.219 --> 00:48:25.999 Yeah, the bootleg feed is two hours and 30 minutes right now. Ironically. 00:48:25.999 --> 00:48:27.459 And you hand transcribe them. 00:48:27.619 --> 00:48:31.999 That's true. And I have been actually for months, adversaries. 00:48:32.339 --> 00:48:38.819 The thing is, is that things like a fountain don't display them because it's a private feed. 00:48:39.079 --> 00:48:42.659 So ironically, there is a transcript for the bootleg. It's one of the places 00:48:42.659 --> 00:48:43.779 we first started experimenting. 00:48:44.859 --> 00:48:48.099 But because it's a private feed, some podcast clients don't show it. 00:48:49.399 --> 00:48:54.279 Tebidog boosts in with 12,345 sets. 00:48:59.649 --> 00:49:04.329 Finally got a live episode. Happy to be here to listen as it's all happening. 00:49:04.549 --> 00:49:07.529 This was for last week's episode, our challenge check-in. 00:49:07.649 --> 00:49:11.869 Right on. Thank you, dog. Nice to hear. I always appreciate, 00:49:12.049 --> 00:49:16.009 too, people's comment or experiences with the live stream. Always appreciate those boos. 00:49:16.509 --> 00:49:20.909 Well, SatStacker number seven sends in 5,000 sats. 00:49:23.409 --> 00:49:27.649 Heyo, I finally got to set up Audiobookshelf for my Audible library. 00:49:27.829 --> 00:49:32.469 Really love it so far. and wonder, what is your workflow for transferring newly bought books? 00:49:32.609 --> 00:49:37.409 At the moment, I manually convert them using Libation and then upload them to Audiobookshelf. 00:49:37.649 --> 00:49:41.149 Would love this to happen automatically when I buy a new book. 00:49:43.529 --> 00:49:47.289 Yeah, man. Me too. I was doing this last night. 00:49:47.569 --> 00:49:51.369 You know, pick up a couple audiobooks. I don't ever use the Audible app anymore. 00:49:51.369 --> 00:49:54.629 I buy them on Audible, and then I immediately fire up Libation, 00:49:55.289 --> 00:49:58.789 download them, and then what I've done, 00:49:58.909 --> 00:50:01.909 right is i've just added a bookmark in my file manager both 00:50:01.909 --> 00:50:05.429 in dolphin in files that is just an fc sftp mount 00:50:05.429 --> 00:50:08.649 to my audiobooks directory and then 00:50:08.649 --> 00:50:11.489 once they download i just copy them over i i would 00:50:11.489 --> 00:50:14.289 love an automated process as far 00:50:14.289 --> 00:50:16.909 as i know there is libation cli but i've never seen a way 00:50:16.909 --> 00:50:19.629 to do it automatically that'd be there it'd be so 00:50:19.629 --> 00:50:23.769 sweet to just buy an audible and have it show up an audio bookshelf does anybody 00:50:23.769 --> 00:50:30.929 know let us know gene beans here with 4444 sats says i use my laptop screen 00:50:30.929 --> 00:50:35.229 plus two external monitors every day and have for more years than i count okay 00:50:35.229 --> 00:50:38.869 so checking in on the multi-monitor we didn't get a lot of responses to this 00:50:38.869 --> 00:50:42.549 did any of us end up trying multi-mon no. 00:50:42.549 --> 00:50:43.389 I did not. 00:50:43.389 --> 00:50:49.289 I think i did either actually darn that was one of our chris you and i We were low. 00:50:49.289 --> 00:50:54.089 On HDMI cables, so we were sharing HDMI cables. And I was like, 00:50:54.149 --> 00:50:57.089 once you leave, I'm going to try that. And never got around to it, so that's so sad. 00:50:57.369 --> 00:51:00.389 The battle bench definitely had a HDMI shortage. 00:51:00.669 --> 00:51:01.229 Also ether. 00:51:01.229 --> 00:51:05.669 And that was a problem. Yeah, yeah. There's room for improvement on the bench. There's that. 00:51:05.809 --> 00:51:06.189 It's new. 00:51:06.369 --> 00:51:10.169 Jing continues, when I'm out and about, I generally use more than one screen 00:51:10.169 --> 00:51:13.429 of doing any real work. This little gem has come in super easy. 00:51:13.429 --> 00:51:20.029 And he links us to a Vision Owl portable monitor, which is a 15.6-inch travel screen. 00:51:20.209 --> 00:51:24.029 And it's USB-C 1080p, and it even has speakers built in. 00:51:24.709 --> 00:51:26.409 I've actually used something very similar to this. 00:51:26.509 --> 00:51:27.609 Yeah, I don't hate this idea. 00:51:27.709 --> 00:51:32.129 Yeah. I at home- I really want this. I at home have a laptop mount, 00:51:32.469 --> 00:51:34.609 like a Visa mount, that's just a laptop tray. 00:51:34.789 --> 00:51:39.509 And then it's all on one pole. And then the other mount is one of these little portable monitors. 00:51:40.009 --> 00:51:44.289 so I just put my laptop on the Visa mount and plug in the USB-C cord and I'm 00:51:44.289 --> 00:51:47.589 off to the races thank you for the feedback Gene Bean we're still curious too 00:51:47.589 --> 00:51:49.669 to get more feedback on people's multi-monitor use. 00:51:50.229 --> 00:51:53.369 User 63 comes in with 10,000 SATs, 00:51:56.135 --> 00:51:58.595 This is kind of fun. It seems like we're getting some stream of consciousness 00:51:58.595 --> 00:52:00.375 boosts during the challenge. 00:52:00.755 --> 00:52:03.135 I actually watched these ones come in live. I knew what he was up to. 00:52:03.415 --> 00:52:09.655 The first one. No way. Xorg didn't work because the root account was not in 00:52:09.655 --> 00:52:14.475 the video group, which is insane, as root should have access to everything. 00:52:14.835 --> 00:52:17.055 Yeah, you're not really supposed to run X's root. 00:52:19.495 --> 00:52:23.115 And then comes in with a second boost. Okay. 00:52:23.835 --> 00:52:26.795 I give up. Well, I mean, I don't. 00:52:27.095 --> 00:52:31.655 Like DJ Khaled famously said on Hot Ones, I promise you, if I stop, 00:52:31.895 --> 00:52:35.235 it doesn't mean I gave up. I'm going to teach you something today. 00:52:35.555 --> 00:52:40.035 We can't play ourselves. We can't hurt ourselves. We can't hurt our health. 00:52:40.435 --> 00:52:42.615 Now you see, that's the key. 00:52:43.115 --> 00:52:46.955 That's some wise-sounding stuff. I don't know if it's wise in itself, 00:52:47.075 --> 00:52:47.735 but it's wise-sounding. 00:52:47.955 --> 00:52:52.375 Thank you very much. I appreciate that, Deezer. I love the stream of consciousness. 00:52:52.375 --> 00:52:57.495 Well, Podbun sent us two rows of ducks to share a little feedback. 00:53:00.973 --> 00:53:05.253 Here's one about our little YouTube rant. So many times podcasts that upload 00:53:05.253 --> 00:53:07.413 to YouTube aren't very audio friendly. 00:53:07.693 --> 00:53:12.293 They'll refer to stuff that the YouTube audience can see and seemingly as an afterthought. 00:53:12.553 --> 00:53:16.413 Describe what's happening in the video quote for audio listeners. 00:53:16.773 --> 00:53:18.253 Yeah, it's the worst when an 00:53:18.253 --> 00:53:21.333 audio podcast transitions to a YouTube live stream and starts doing that. 00:53:21.633 --> 00:53:27.133 And YouTube just did last week this round of publicity about how they're taking 00:53:27.133 --> 00:53:28.373 over podcasting, And how proud 00:53:28.373 --> 00:53:31.553 they are that YouTube is the place for all forms of entertainment now. 00:53:31.673 --> 00:53:33.793 The number one place for all forms including podcasts. 00:53:34.013 --> 00:53:36.893 And that they're going to give out more money to more podcasters to get them 00:53:36.893 --> 00:53:38.593 to move to YouTube next year. Or this year. 00:53:39.193 --> 00:53:42.513 Bob Budden continues here. After working with two monitors at work, 00:53:42.553 --> 00:53:46.193 I've not been able to go back to computing on a single monitor. 00:53:46.433 --> 00:53:50.233 I have a main high hertz monitor and a lower hertz monitor on the side. 00:53:50.353 --> 00:53:53.913 I've stuck with 1080p as I don't see the use for 4K for me. 00:53:54.413 --> 00:53:57.833 I do like 1440p. I do think that's a nice sweet spot. 00:53:58.813 --> 00:54:03.613 So the way I've gotten by at home, because now I'm using the B-Link and I'm 00:54:03.613 --> 00:54:06.493 no longer bringing the laptop home since the laptop is a goner. 00:54:07.213 --> 00:54:11.733 I hook the B-Link up to one of those Samsung crazy ultra-wide monitors, 00:54:12.033 --> 00:54:13.253 the curved ultra-wide ones. 00:54:13.433 --> 00:54:19.153 It's just ridiculously wide, and you can fit like three full window applications in the screen. 00:54:19.313 --> 00:54:21.313 It's like the enterprise view screen for the RV. 00:54:21.593 --> 00:54:25.733 And it kind of reduces my need for multi-monitor at home. I find it works really 00:54:25.733 --> 00:54:28.653 well. And that's why I think Gnome Shell has worked so well for me at home. 00:54:29.033 --> 00:54:31.773 Everywhere else where I have multi-monitor, I have to have plasma. 00:54:32.793 --> 00:54:35.733 Thank you for the boost. Appreciate the feedback on the multi-mon. 00:54:36.753 --> 00:54:38.893 Fabbean comes in with 5,000 sats. 00:54:40.093 --> 00:54:44.233 I'm running my Framework 13 laptop plus two stacked ultrawides every day. 00:54:44.573 --> 00:54:47.413 Each ultrawide is 3440 by 1440. 00:54:48.133 --> 00:54:51.193 That sounds normal, right? I mean, it sounds like the kind of setup I'd like. 00:54:51.433 --> 00:54:53.893 Now what you got to do is turn those things on their side, right? 00:54:53.953 --> 00:54:56.293 Make them go vertical, Fab. that's what you gotta do how. 00:54:56.293 --> 00:54:57.373 Else can you look at logs. 00:54:57.373 --> 00:55:00.393 Appreciate the boost and the love of the setup. 00:55:00.393 --> 00:55:05.493 Tomato comes in with 8222 sats, 00:55:07.969 --> 00:55:11.809 Something seems to have gone wrong with my daemon update boost, 00:55:11.989 --> 00:55:16.629 which shows is anonymous on the Fountain website. But that was me, tomato. 00:55:17.009 --> 00:55:18.209 All right. All right. Thank you. 00:55:18.429 --> 00:55:21.749 Oh, but, oh, here we go. Now we're getting a daemon update. Last Saturday night, 00:55:21.769 --> 00:55:23.809 I sat down to install FreeBSD. 00:55:24.089 --> 00:55:28.329 I hadn't really done so since 4.something, but I'm sure it'll be easy. 00:55:28.569 --> 00:55:30.189 I'm a NetBSD user, after all. 00:55:30.289 --> 00:55:30.509 Okay. 00:55:30.889 --> 00:55:36.569 Well, the FreeBSD installer is not as easy as NetBSD. I eventually gave up trying 00:55:36.569 --> 00:55:41.589 to get ZFS to booze on my T440p and started thinking about Comic Sans. 00:55:41.989 --> 00:55:44.789 Didn't boost in last week, out of shame. 00:55:45.529 --> 00:55:47.509 There's no shame in the game, no. 00:55:48.009 --> 00:55:51.709 This week, I tried on a new machine, a more modern ThinkPad. 00:55:52.029 --> 00:55:57.469 Got rude on ZFS working, thankfully, which for me is kind of the whole point of trying FreeBSD. 00:55:57.869 --> 00:56:02.329 And eventually, X11, KDE, and sound. Alright. 00:56:03.209 --> 00:56:07.969 I still can't get my preferred keyboard layout, though. I went for a sync thing 00:56:07.969 --> 00:56:11.029 in a jail to get seven points instead of just two. 00:56:11.369 --> 00:56:12.409 Hey, that's not fair. 00:56:12.729 --> 00:56:15.209 No, that's good. That's good game strategy was what that is right there. 00:56:15.469 --> 00:56:21.109 I also did a fresh install of my favorite NetBSD, which I don't normally run as a desktop. 00:56:21.389 --> 00:56:26.189 But I have to say, getting the graphical environment working there was actually easier. 00:56:26.949 --> 00:56:31.729 In general, I find the NetBSD installation process much more pleasant, though I'm, 00:56:31.809 --> 00:56:35.949 of course more familiar with it sure wes you might enjoy looking at the net 00:56:35.949 --> 00:56:40.569 bsd boot process it's wonderfully simple you can even get root on zfs though 00:56:40.569 --> 00:56:44.829 it's a manual process that makes for a slightly janky boot procedure no worse 00:56:44.829 --> 00:56:46.849 than how linux boots though yeah. 00:56:46.849 --> 00:56:49.789 That's good and also you see he did his own math for us there too you see that. 00:56:49.789 --> 00:56:52.509 Oh look at that yeah okay six points for free 00:56:52.509 --> 00:56:56.029 bsd installed online audio recording uh apparently 00:56:56.029 --> 00:56:58.729 owes us a link to that or maybe we missed it 00:56:58.729 --> 00:57:01.469 that's totally probably in the chat yeah uh and sync thing 00:57:01.469 --> 00:57:04.929 15 points for sync thing in a jail firewall 00:57:04.929 --> 00:57:10.269 configured and i also installed a net bsd desktop right i don't think i'll keep 00:57:10.269 --> 00:57:15.489 the free bsd installation all said and done but i am going to keep net bsd on 00:57:15.489 --> 00:57:21.669 this laptop it not only suspends which free bsd couldn't do it even resumes that's. 00:57:21.669 --> 00:57:23.669 Definitely that's definitely good. 00:57:23.669 --> 00:57:27.609 But in general i'm sticking with linux as a desktop yeah. 00:57:27.609 --> 00:57:30.789 That was our take too like It was nice to visit. It's cool to see. 00:57:31.049 --> 00:57:32.269 Really impressive stuff over there. 00:57:32.929 --> 00:57:36.509 But Linux, you know, there's just a whole world of compatibility and options 00:57:36.509 --> 00:57:39.249 over here. And things work much easier. 00:57:39.369 --> 00:57:42.229 Although now I'm kind of thinking, I do want to try Nick's BSD. 00:57:42.389 --> 00:57:44.069 Yeah, I want to try Nick's BSD, I'll tell you the truth. 00:57:46.629 --> 00:57:48.849 Well, VMAX came in with 10,000 sets. 00:57:52.215 --> 00:57:56.955 If any of you out there do multi-room audio or even any audio through Home Assistant, 00:57:57.175 --> 00:57:59.035 try out Music-Assistant. 00:57:59.255 --> 00:58:03.095 It has an incredibly well-designed plug-in system to let you choose a provider 00:58:03.095 --> 00:58:05.435 plug-in and then a player plug-in. 00:58:05.835 --> 00:58:12.115 I verified it works very well with Spotify and LMS Squeezebox, Chromecast, Snapcast. 00:58:12.495 --> 00:58:13.635 Now that is compelling. 00:58:13.635 --> 00:58:18.315 I really do, really do, really do want to get into music assistant this year, 00:58:18.455 --> 00:58:23.715 especially now that the Nebukasa folks are selling the voice assistant preview 00:58:23.715 --> 00:58:25.415 hardware that has an audio out jack. 00:58:25.675 --> 00:58:29.715 And each one of these can show up in home assistant and thus probably music 00:58:29.715 --> 00:58:31.735 assistant as an output destination. 00:58:31.795 --> 00:58:34.755 And you could do synchronized audio across all of these things. 00:58:34.915 --> 00:58:36.435 And they're like, you know, 20 bucks a puck. 00:58:37.035 --> 00:58:41.455 So I really could change the synchronized audio game. I think on our goal list 00:58:41.455 --> 00:58:44.675 for this year is to get both Wes and Brent on Home Assistant. 00:58:45.035 --> 00:58:45.435 Absolutely. 00:58:45.895 --> 00:58:51.775 And then together, we'll, for a first time, all look at Music Assistant, which could be a blast. 00:58:51.875 --> 00:58:52.195 Done deal. 00:58:52.495 --> 00:58:55.355 So it's not in the works at the moment, but it is in the planning stages. 00:58:56.255 --> 00:58:58.775 And I really appreciate the boost, Vey. Nice to hear from you. 00:58:59.715 --> 00:59:02.915 Caso Mears here with, I'm going to say, 4,000 delicious sats. 00:59:04.035 --> 00:59:07.555 Says they enjoyed the FreeBSD challenge. They scored a humble four points after 00:59:07.555 --> 00:59:11.535 getting KDE Plasma. It felt like cheating a little after the audio just worked for them. 00:59:12.095 --> 00:59:15.075 Hey, you're lucky. Sometimes you get lucky like that. 00:59:15.775 --> 00:59:20.855 Love the reports. Keep them coming if you try to. And also want your ideas on 00:59:20.855 --> 00:59:23.295 future challenge ideas. 00:59:23.775 --> 00:59:26.315 Ideas on ideas, but you know what I mean. And thank you, everybody, 00:59:26.335 --> 00:59:29.175 who boosted in above 2,000 sets. That is our cutoff line. 00:59:29.415 --> 00:59:35.415 We had our sat streamers come in with 31 of you streaming 59,569 sats. 00:59:35.415 --> 00:59:37.615 Thank you, SatStreamers, doing a nice heavy lift today. 00:59:37.875 --> 00:59:41.555 Really appreciate that. And then, of course, when you combine that with our 00:59:41.555 --> 00:59:47.895 boost, we stacked a grand, humble total of 144,224 sats. 00:59:49.361 --> 00:59:51.741 Not a killer week for us, but after a couple of great weeks, 00:59:51.801 --> 00:59:53.421 we just really still appreciate the support. 00:59:53.581 --> 00:59:54.961 That consistent support. 00:59:55.281 --> 00:59:58.141 We appreciate it very much. In fact, if you'd like to join in and get your message 00:59:58.141 --> 01:00:01.661 on the show and boost us, just grab something like Strike so you get some sats 01:00:01.661 --> 01:00:05.741 or whatever you prefer to buy your sats. Maybe something like the Bitcoin Well or River. 01:00:06.601 --> 01:00:10.581 Then get a podcasting 2.0 app like Fountain or Podverse. There's lots. 01:00:10.761 --> 01:00:12.001 Listen to podcastapps.com. 01:00:12.401 --> 01:00:15.401 And then you can boost in and support the show. And you can also check out all 01:00:15.401 --> 01:00:18.981 the cool new standards and stuff that's getting worked out as an open source community. 01:00:19.441 --> 01:00:23.021 And there's more things coming all the time. And if you have one of those podcasting 01:00:23.021 --> 01:00:27.521 2.0 apps, you now have transcripts for this here Linux podcast. 01:00:28.121 --> 01:00:31.341 And that's always nice because you can look things up, see what we said word 01:00:31.341 --> 01:00:33.621 for word, or get the name of something that hopefully it got right. 01:00:33.961 --> 01:00:37.181 That's now available in podcasting 2.0 apps. 01:00:37.381 --> 01:00:41.441 I also think it was definitely one of those, you know, V for V weeks where if 01:00:41.441 --> 01:00:46.201 the value wasn't totally in the sat column, it was most definitely in the experience report column. 01:00:46.341 --> 01:00:48.681 Definitely. And the contributions to the show, that's always a great way to 01:00:48.681 --> 01:00:52.221 also send value back. It's not just treasure, it's time and talent too. 01:00:52.681 --> 01:00:58.581 All of it keeps the show going and it together helps us create the world's largest Linux podcast. 01:00:58.821 --> 01:01:01.541 Keeps it on the road with the listeners as the biggest customer. 01:01:03.701 --> 01:01:06.801 I wanted to give a shout out since it's sort of beginning of the year. 01:01:06.921 --> 01:01:10.441 We haven't mentioned it in quite a long time. We have told you about this pick before. 01:01:12.421 --> 01:01:16.521 But because we use it so extensively to produce the show, it felt only fair 01:01:16.521 --> 01:01:17.581 that we give them another plug. 01:01:17.861 --> 01:01:25.021 And it is HedgeDoc, H-E-D-G-E-D-O-C, HedgeDoc, which lets you create real-time 01:01:25.021 --> 01:01:28.581 collaborative markdown notes, licensed in GPL3. 01:01:29.201 --> 01:01:33.141 HedgeDoc 1 is nice and stable. We've been using it for years. 01:01:34.161 --> 01:01:38.801 Love it. Depend on it. And HedgeDoc 2 is coming along very nice. 01:01:38.801 --> 01:01:41.501 It's a rewrite of HedgeDoc completely from the ground up. 01:01:41.701 --> 01:01:46.901 It's got some new improvements in the UI, just sort of a refactoring of the way they do things. 01:01:47.381 --> 01:01:52.121 and so HedgeDoc 1 is in maintenance and if you've been curious about HedgeDoc at all I think it's worth, 01:01:53.149 --> 01:01:59.169 now to start tracking hedge doc 2 they're both uh improvements in how it's built 01:01:59.169 --> 01:02:02.269 but also they refactor into two components the back end and the front end you 01:02:02.269 --> 01:02:04.569 can run both together or run them independently oh. 01:02:04.569 --> 01:02:05.369 I'm curious about. 01:02:05.369 --> 01:02:06.389 This yeah. 01:02:06.389 --> 01:02:11.089 I will second just you know it's super easy to get going at least for v1 and 01:02:11.089 --> 01:02:17.149 um where it really shines is it's just got great markdown support it's a markdown 01:02:17.149 --> 01:02:20.769 implementation supports all the things that you're used to having in markdown. 01:02:20.769 --> 01:02:23.589 And it's good as google docs and real-time editing yeah. 01:02:23.589 --> 01:02:28.169 That's just it they like the eventual consistent sort of like merging things cleanly. 01:02:28.169 --> 01:02:31.009 Yeah superb it's got it's got a 01:02:31.009 --> 01:02:34.249 bunch of great features around there too but if uh you know a collaborative 01:02:34.249 --> 01:02:39.149 markdown editor that runs a web browser doesn't interest you then perhaps if 01:02:39.149 --> 01:02:43.309 you like me do have a gnome system from time to time you might want to add water 01:02:43.309 --> 01:02:49.049 this is a utility that makes firefox look like a native Gnome applications. 01:02:49.669 --> 01:02:53.629 Like, you know how it just sort of doesn't quite fit? Not like Epiphany or Gnome Web does. 01:02:54.009 --> 01:02:57.109 It just sort of looks a little bit out of place. Well, when you add water, 01:02:57.289 --> 01:03:00.629 which was the name of the app, it helps you with just a few checkboxes, 01:03:00.729 --> 01:03:06.749 keep Firefox Gnome-ly fashionable and fit right in with the old Gnome design ethos. 01:03:06.829 --> 01:03:10.389 Oh, this is fun. I know there's been various like extensions or other ways to 01:03:10.389 --> 01:03:11.889 sort of go about the same idea. 01:03:12.069 --> 01:03:15.169 Like a hundred years ago, I did like a guide. It was like, get this plugin, 01:03:15.309 --> 01:03:19.609 get this plugin, change this on the config add this extension here this is just. 01:03:19.609 --> 01:03:20.989 A flat pack i can get with some. 01:03:20.989 --> 01:03:25.569 Toggles okay yeah it's really pretty nice and it makes firefox look like it 01:03:25.569 --> 01:03:30.049 belongs on your gnome desktop you can see they'll have some screenshots um up 01:03:30.049 --> 01:03:33.749 on flat hub and it doesn't that looks more like gnome web than it does firefox yeah, 01:03:34.581 --> 01:03:38.461 I used to do this, and I think I'm going to do it. The only problem is that 01:03:38.461 --> 01:03:40.901 I run Plasma and I run GNOME. 01:03:41.081 --> 01:03:44.561 And I run a lot more Plasma than I run GNOME. And it syncs. 01:03:45.021 --> 01:03:48.741 My Firefox syncs. So when I make it look all awesome on one desktop, 01:03:48.941 --> 01:03:52.801 it looks out of place on the other desktop. So I just kind of go for the baseline look. 01:03:52.961 --> 01:03:56.201 I was just going to joke. Yeah, should we get it going on all of our KDE just because? 01:03:56.321 --> 01:04:02.061 No, but if you are an all GNOME user, definitely add water. I give it a good recommendation. 01:04:02.061 --> 01:04:05.901 Hey, okay, we've got to do our license check, as True Grits rightfully points out. 01:04:06.021 --> 01:04:06.781 Oh, for Add Water. 01:04:06.941 --> 01:04:07.601 Well, and HedgeDoc. 01:04:07.701 --> 01:04:08.521 No, HedgeDoc is, yeah. 01:04:08.601 --> 01:04:09.201 Yeah, GPL3, great. 01:04:09.201 --> 01:04:15.041 Yeah, HedgeDoc is GPL3. Add Water, I could go, are you pulling it up right now? 01:04:15.201 --> 01:04:15.881 I'm looking. 01:04:16.281 --> 01:04:19.221 I'm feeling like it's also GPL, you know? I'm feeling GPL3. 01:04:19.221 --> 01:04:23.401 This app is developed, yeah, GNU GPLv3. 01:04:23.581 --> 01:04:26.561 Yeah, I had that, yeah, GPL3, yeah. Had that sort of GPL feel, 01:04:26.721 --> 01:04:30.441 you know? That sort of smooth, sort of velvety feel. 01:04:30.661 --> 01:04:31.601 Software you can trust. 01:04:32.061 --> 01:04:34.741 Yeah, I want to take a second before we run and just say thank you, 01:04:34.821 --> 01:04:38.501 everybody who decided to get into the FreeBSD challenge with us. 01:04:38.581 --> 01:04:39.821 It was a lot of fun to do it with you. 01:04:39.941 --> 01:04:43.121 And to see some of you updating us in the Matrix or via Boots or email, 01:04:43.781 --> 01:04:47.081 all the avenues of communication were popping throughout the couple of weeks 01:04:47.081 --> 01:04:48.761 that we did this with people's experiences. 01:04:49.001 --> 01:04:51.701 And it lets us get a better, you know, sense of it. 01:04:51.801 --> 01:04:54.481 We can't, again, we've been complaining there's just not enough time in a two-week 01:04:54.481 --> 01:04:58.461 challenge, but we kind of get more of the landscape thanks to everyone else doing it in parallel. 01:04:58.701 --> 01:05:00.981 Totally. Yeah, I'm really, I don't know what our next challenge will be. 01:05:01.441 --> 01:05:05.481 I'm really looking forward to doing it This one sort of reinvigorated my interest 01:05:05.481 --> 01:05:09.861 in it So we'd love to hear your ideas Please do send those in to us I. 01:05:09.861 --> 01:05:13.281 Would also love to hear if anyone ended up Losing the challenge and needs to 01:05:13.281 --> 01:05:15.641 run Windows With Comic Sans Let us know. 01:05:15.641 --> 01:05:22.941 Jeff is that you? That's me Oh good I'm glad somebody ended up I thought for 01:05:22.941 --> 01:05:29.101 sure one of us would Here you go Jeff That's just for you Feels like home. 01:05:32.001 --> 01:05:34.701 All right we'd love to have you join us live too it always makes it 01:05:34.701 --> 01:05:41.101 a lot of fun of course we make it a linux tuesday on a sunday yeah that's 01:05:41.101 --> 01:05:47.161 right noon pacific 3 p.m eastern over at jblive.tv in your web browser or jblive.fm 01:05:47.161 --> 01:05:51.461 and whatever can stream an mp3 stream just go to jblive.fm directly and of course 01:05:51.461 --> 01:05:55.661 the mumble room has that low latency high quality opus stream coming right off the mixer. 01:05:55.801 --> 01:05:58.281 Details at jupyterbroadcasting.com slash mumble. 01:05:58.861 --> 01:06:02.761 And don't forget the launch is going to have a live stream 11.30 a.m. Pacific. 01:06:03.001 --> 01:06:07.081 And we'd love to have you come and hang out for the open mumble hour or half hour, whatever it is. 01:06:07.661 --> 01:06:10.941 Links to what we talked about today, linuxunplugged.com slash 602. 01:06:11.321 --> 01:06:15.321 Thank you so much for joining us on this week's episode of your Unplugged program. 01:06:15.541 --> 01:06:19.261 We'll see you right back here next Tuesday, as in Sunday.
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