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Linus' Next Big Thing

Apr 13, 2025
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Apple's software is going rotten, while Linux sneaks up as the better Mac. Linus grumbles through Git's 20th birthday, and we spot a hardware window Linux better not slam shut.

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Transcript

WEBVTT 00:00:18.784 --> 00:00:19.764 My name is Wes. this. 00:00:59.104 --> 00:01:00.284 Thanks for being here. 00:01:00.844 --> 00:01:05.724 Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. 00:01:06.364 --> 00:01:07.544 And my name is Brent. 00:01:08.084 --> 00:01:12.844 Hello, gentlemen. Today we'll talk about Linus grumbling through 20 years of 00:01:12.844 --> 00:01:18.864 Git, a hardware window that may be opening up for Linux, and a look at App 3.0. 00:01:18.984 --> 00:01:23.404 Then we'll round it out with a really useful pick, some great boosts, and a lot more. 00:01:23.664 --> 00:01:27.504 So before we get into all of that, let's say time-appropriate greetings to our 00:01:27.504 --> 00:01:29.824 virtual lug. Hello, Mumble Room. 00:01:30.344 --> 00:01:32.684 Hello, Simon. Hello, Brent. 00:01:33.884 --> 00:01:36.664 Hello, y'all. Nice to see you up there, and hello, everybody up there in the 00:01:36.664 --> 00:01:39.704 quiet listening that's just quietly saying hello this morning. 00:01:40.024 --> 00:01:43.544 I see some old friends up there. It's nice to see you. The Mumble Room is open 00:01:43.544 --> 00:01:47.604 for every show, and it gives it kind of like this live vibe. 00:01:47.764 --> 00:01:51.244 Like what's really happening now and eventually it makes us have to start the 00:01:51.244 --> 00:01:52.684 show too. So there's that as well. 00:01:53.084 --> 00:01:55.324 Details at jupiterbroadcasting.com slash mumble. 00:01:58.228 --> 00:02:03.668 And a big good morning to our friends over at TailScale. Head over to TailScale.com 00:02:03.668 --> 00:02:07.288 slash unplugged and get it for free up to 100 devices and three users. 00:02:07.688 --> 00:02:11.008 TailScale is the easiest way to connect devices and services to each other wherever 00:02:11.008 --> 00:02:15.648 they are. They solve the problem of networking. The internet never quite got there. 00:02:16.048 --> 00:02:20.928 TailScale is modern networking that builds a flat mesh network protected by... 00:02:20.928 --> 00:02:22.108 Why do you got to keep saying that? 00:02:22.328 --> 00:02:25.108 You put your nodes on there, it doesn't matter if they're in multiple different 00:02:25.108 --> 00:02:29.128 VPS providers or if they're on your homeland or if it's a mobile device, 00:02:29.708 --> 00:02:33.628 Tailscale brings them all together secure, and it is really fast. 00:02:33.788 --> 00:02:37.468 It's privacy for individuals and every organization out there. 00:02:37.788 --> 00:02:42.828 Intuitive and easy to deploy, and the great thing is, with 100 devices and three 00:02:42.828 --> 00:02:47.588 users, when you go to tailscale.com slash unplugged, you get a genuine sense of the service. 00:02:47.748 --> 00:02:50.968 And when you're ready, you might suggest it to your buddies at work. 00:02:51.128 --> 00:02:53.708 I mean, that's kind of what we did. We started on our personal plans, 00:02:53.748 --> 00:02:55.808 and we expanded to using it here at Jupyter Broadcasting. 00:02:56.308 --> 00:02:59.368 Thousands of companies out there now use Tailscale the same way. 00:02:59.488 --> 00:03:01.588 So go try it out for yourself or for a business. 00:03:02.108 --> 00:03:06.248 See why we love it so much. Go to Tailscale.com slash unplugged. 00:03:06.508 --> 00:03:13.748 And by the way, special little PSA for you. Tailscale has a meetup coming in May, and it's May 8th. 00:03:13.888 --> 00:03:16.848 We'll have a link in the show notes. It's one of their first community meetups, 00:03:16.908 --> 00:03:18.088 and it's right here in Seattle. 00:03:18.548 --> 00:03:22.068 We may even have a guest speaker of our own there at the meetup, perhaps. 00:03:22.388 --> 00:03:25.588 It should be a lot of fun. Mm-hmm. So if you're in the Seattle area and you 00:03:25.588 --> 00:03:27.948 want to go to one of their first Tailscale community meetups, 00:03:28.088 --> 00:03:32.668 check out the link and support the show by going to tailscale.com slash unplugged. 00:03:35.124 --> 00:03:38.144 One little bit of housekeeping before we get going. 00:03:38.384 --> 00:03:42.284 We're kind of on the fence about doing a Saturday live stream, 00:03:42.424 --> 00:03:43.984 the first full day of LinuxFest. 00:03:44.144 --> 00:03:47.424 I put out a poll last week, and it hasn't gotten very many votes. 00:03:47.564 --> 00:03:50.804 It's 60% yes, but 40% nay. 00:03:51.184 --> 00:03:54.024 It's a little close for the amount of work we're going to be putting in. 00:03:54.304 --> 00:03:58.424 So send us a boost or go vote in the poll and let us know if you'd like a live 00:03:58.424 --> 00:04:03.124 stream from LinuxFest the day, Saturday, before our Sunday show. 00:04:03.624 --> 00:04:07.704 We're thinking about doing a little different this year if we do this we've 00:04:07.704 --> 00:04:10.964 always done it at a booth before at linux fest and we're kind of thinking maybe 00:04:10.964 --> 00:04:15.384 this year the live stream will actually be anchored from lady joops the rv on the parking lot do. 00:04:15.384 --> 00:04:16.724 Things in the wrong order right. 00:04:16.724 --> 00:04:20.644 Some advantages to that you know it means we have a little more control over 00:04:20.644 --> 00:04:24.684 the technical and the audio and the internet and based on prior tests we think 00:04:24.684 --> 00:04:30.104 it makes for a better live stream and then what we do is along with our commentary 00:04:30.104 --> 00:04:33.384 of the event what's going on chatting with guests, inviting people out to come out to us. 00:04:34.244 --> 00:04:37.964 We send a couple of men in on the scene like a, you know, like a Brent Noah 00:04:37.964 --> 00:04:39.724 tag team or a me and you tag team. 00:04:39.804 --> 00:04:42.644 And we go out there and we interview folks and presenters in the booth and we 00:04:42.644 --> 00:04:44.264 stream that back to the live stream. 00:04:45.024 --> 00:04:51.404 And if we can, big caveat there, but if we can stream select audio talk as well. 00:04:52.284 --> 00:04:55.524 So that's kind of our ambitious plans if we do a Saturday stream, 00:04:55.644 --> 00:04:58.024 but we only want to do it if you're going to listen. 00:04:58.144 --> 00:05:00.664 So boost in or go vote in the poll we have in the show notes. 00:05:01.064 --> 00:05:02.404 It's a straw poll. It's real easy. 00:05:03.124 --> 00:05:10.904 And let us know if you would tune in Saturday, which is going to be April 20, no, 26th, right? 00:05:11.884 --> 00:05:13.664 April 26 on a Saturday. That's, woo. 00:05:14.684 --> 00:05:16.464 It's coming up real fast. So please let us know. 00:05:19.844 --> 00:05:25.964 Some big, big milestones recently, and one of them was Git turning 20 years 00:05:25.964 --> 00:05:28.304 old, of course, created by Linus Torvalds. 00:05:29.104 --> 00:05:35.344 And to celebrate, GitHub did an interview with Linus, which is kind of interesting 00:05:35.344 --> 00:05:39.544 because Linus hasn't always been the biggest GitHub fan. He's obviously a big Git fan. 00:05:40.164 --> 00:05:43.344 But they have a kind of a wide-ranging interview. I don't know if either of 00:05:43.344 --> 00:05:48.164 you had a chance to read it, but it wasn't, I think, anything too new that we didn't already know. 00:05:48.744 --> 00:05:51.524 Linus is always so humble about his participation in Git. 00:05:58.604 --> 00:05:59.764 Yes, yes, yes. 00:06:11.404 --> 00:06:14.824 Yeah, in the interview, he talks about basically all the Git functionality he 00:06:14.824 --> 00:06:15.904 needed was there in a few months. 00:06:16.624 --> 00:06:18.964 And then it was just everybody kind of adding what they needed. 00:06:19.504 --> 00:06:23.824 So that was interesting. And then, like you said, he had a video interview with GitHub. 00:06:24.684 --> 00:06:27.564 And so the text interview is with GitLab, to make this clear. 00:06:27.784 --> 00:06:29.184 The video interview is with GitHub. 00:06:30.064 --> 00:06:34.124 And the title was Two Decades of Git, a Conversation with Creator Linus Torvalds. 00:06:34.164 --> 00:06:36.904 And we'll link to the full video in the show notes. It's, I don't know, about a half hour. 00:06:37.664 --> 00:06:42.944 And first of all, it's nice just to see Linus outside the LinuxCon conference 00:06:42.944 --> 00:06:46.024 Dirk-style interview scene. It's been a while since we've seen anything but that. 00:06:47.691 --> 00:06:50.371 And one of the things they touch on at the end of the interview is, 00:06:50.571 --> 00:06:53.791 what is the next big success for Linus? 00:06:54.211 --> 00:06:57.891 He seems to have a cadence of every 20 years or so, he has these major projects 00:06:57.891 --> 00:07:01.651 that he releases that change the world, like the Linux kernel and like Git. 00:07:02.051 --> 00:07:05.471 And you can tell Linus hates this question, and I thought his answer was fascinating. 00:07:06.011 --> 00:07:09.431 On schedule, Linux came about 34 years ago. 00:07:12.331 --> 00:07:14.131 Yeah, Git 20. 00:07:14.131 --> 00:07:18.071 Which involves maybe the worst CAPTCHA system ever devised. 00:07:18.311 --> 00:07:22.151 And so maybe five or so years overdue for the next big thing. No, no. 00:07:22.431 --> 00:07:27.651 I see the other way around. All the projects that I've had to make, I had to make because... 00:07:27.651 --> 00:07:30.151 Yeah, and if you don't want it, it's better because you can quit when you're bored. 00:07:30.271 --> 00:07:34.871 I couldn't find anything better that somebody else did. But I much prefer other 00:07:34.871 --> 00:07:37.051 people solving my problems for me, right? 00:07:37.851 --> 00:07:42.171 So me having to come up with a project is actually a failure of the world, 00:07:42.771 --> 00:07:47.331 right? And the world just hasn't failed in the last 20 years for me. 00:07:49.891 --> 00:07:53.051 I started doing Linux because I needed an operating system. 00:07:53.191 --> 00:07:56.931 Will you say it like that? It almost sounds like it shouldn't work. 00:07:57.171 --> 00:08:01.191 And yet this was like a super ultimately reliable method to have it work. 00:08:01.231 --> 00:08:07.191 Well, no longer my DiveWard software. But that was so specialized that it never took off in a big way. 00:08:07.731 --> 00:08:17.431 And that solved one particular problem. but my computer use is actually so limited 00:08:17.431 --> 00:08:21.451 that I think I've solved all the problems. 00:08:22.371 --> 00:08:29.051 Part of it is probably I've been doing it so long that I can only do things in certain ways. 00:08:29.051 --> 00:08:34.811 I'm still using the same editor that I used when I was in college because my 00:08:34.811 --> 00:08:40.131 fingers have learned one thing and there's no going back. And I know the editor is crap. 00:08:40.691 --> 00:08:44.211 And I maintain it because it's a dead project that nobody else uses. 00:08:44.511 --> 00:08:49.551 So I have a source tree and I compile my own version every time I install a new machine. 00:08:50.851 --> 00:08:54.831 And I would suggest nobody ever use that editor. But I can't. 00:08:55.251 --> 00:09:00.471 I've tried. I've tried multiple times finding an editor that is more modern 00:09:00.471 --> 00:09:06.511 and does fancy things like colorize my source code and do things like that. 00:09:06.511 --> 00:09:12.851 And every time I try it, I'm like, yeah, these, these hands are too old for this. 00:09:13.771 --> 00:09:21.571 Right. So, so I really hope there is no project that comes along that makes me go, I have to do this. 00:09:21.891 --> 00:09:24.291 Yeah. Well, on that note. 00:09:24.471 --> 00:09:26.631 There's a couple of things in there that stood out to me that, 00:09:27.031 --> 00:09:31.031 you know, he really only has to build something when the world hasn't solved that problem for him. 00:09:31.091 --> 00:09:35.151 And so it's kind of a good thing if, you know, he hasn't had to build anything. Yeah, right. Right. 00:09:49.303 --> 00:09:53.323 Not only did we have to get Brent with the game installed, we had to teach Brent 00:09:53.323 --> 00:09:55.003 how to play. Mostly, me too. 00:09:56.283 --> 00:10:00.623 Yeah. And then the other thing that jumped out to me in there is that he said 00:10:00.623 --> 00:10:04.343 he has this horrible, horrible text editor that he uses. 00:10:04.663 --> 00:10:07.143 Yeah. Yeah, it's a very... 00:10:17.623 --> 00:10:20.123 Oh my god you, 00:10:22.823 --> 00:10:29.463 i will say i hope i hope this was um satisfying for producer jeff uh because 00:10:29.463 --> 00:10:33.743 he has been trying to get us to play some StarCraft for way too long, 00:10:33.743 --> 00:10:35.243 so it's on us for taking so long. 00:10:35.463 --> 00:10:35.863 You gave it a go. 00:10:36.383 --> 00:10:39.283 He rightfully pointed out at one point that, you know, Brent, 00:10:39.403 --> 00:10:42.903 if you'd listened to him earlier, you would have been upskilled on StarCraft. 00:11:01.643 --> 00:11:07.563 So you whoa really that's a whole new kind of trapped in the editor. 00:11:13.183 --> 00:11:17.863 It is actually pretty legit a great little hack for live presentations. 00:11:22.223 --> 00:11:25.883 What a mind what a mind job it is that one of the most advanced important software 00:11:25.883 --> 00:11:29.383 projects in the world is being run by that editor, 00:11:52.826 --> 00:11:58.046 Brent, 20 years into Git, it feels like Git, and especially GitHub, 00:11:58.446 --> 00:12:03.466 are such monumental successes that they're just fully integrated into most of 00:12:03.466 --> 00:12:04.646 the open source world now. 00:12:04.886 --> 00:12:09.506 I mean, when's the last time you worked on a project that wasn't using Git? 00:12:09.866 --> 00:12:13.266 Like, everybody's using it, it seems. Although I did find it interesting to 00:12:13.266 --> 00:12:16.186 look at a little bit of the history of version control, and it seems like every 00:12:16.186 --> 00:12:18.966 decade, decade and a half, there's a new one that comes around. 00:12:19.846 --> 00:12:24.266 Maybe Git's the exception of that because it's just integrated so deeply into 00:12:24.266 --> 00:12:25.966 every project, it seems, these days. 00:12:27.086 --> 00:12:31.246 But who knows? Maybe there's an opportunity here. I mean, I think, 00:12:31.246 --> 00:12:34.766 is there a reason to come up with something else? 00:12:34.806 --> 00:12:37.226 And a lot of people, when I was learning Git, said, yeah, yeah. 00:12:37.326 --> 00:12:38.426 On a fastest map. 00:12:38.866 --> 00:12:41.746 Can be better. And there are other projects, like Mercurial, 00:12:41.826 --> 00:12:43.466 for instance, that are trying to do things better. 00:12:43.826 --> 00:12:49.166 But you'd have to be so much better, right? I think the quintessential question 00:12:49.166 --> 00:12:51.766 is, could you have a Git scale success today? 00:12:52.466 --> 00:12:56.946 In 2028 or by 2030, could something else come along that could be the scale 00:12:56.946 --> 00:12:58.846 of GitHub with Git behind it? 00:12:58.946 --> 00:13:01.266 I don't think we can ever see that again. 00:13:24.286 --> 00:13:33.266 Yeah, you were really keyed in on building the society, which was kind of fun. 00:13:33.426 --> 00:13:35.986 There's a lot to build. I just... 00:13:48.729 --> 00:13:53.009 I think it's the one-two combo of you can start your life with Git. 00:13:53.209 --> 00:13:56.689 You can never be bothered with the cloud or any kind of a remote service. 00:13:56.849 --> 00:13:58.129 You can just use Git on your laptop. 00:13:58.809 --> 00:14:02.029 And then one day you start working with a project that's on GitHub, 00:14:02.029 --> 00:14:04.629 and a lot of those skill sets just immediately translate. 00:14:04.929 --> 00:14:09.309 And that is such a powerful network effect. And that's one of the things we 00:14:09.309 --> 00:14:13.949 see in technology over and over again is the network effect is the item we don't 00:14:13.949 --> 00:14:16.409 really account for that just seems to be entrenchable. 00:14:16.409 --> 00:14:19.809 And I don't know, the more I think about it, I don't think you could have a 00:14:19.809 --> 00:14:23.349 Git and GitHub combo success story today. I don't think it's possible. 00:14:28.149 --> 00:14:30.349 Boost in and tell us what you think out there or what else it might be. 00:14:40.049 --> 00:14:43.329 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So even on its own. 00:14:44.609 --> 00:14:49.689 But I was looking at the Git repo, and they have 1,750 contributors, 00:14:49.989 --> 00:14:52.329 so on a bit of a different scale these days. 00:14:52.829 --> 00:14:56.089 Yeah, I suppose so. Something else is on a different scale. 00:14:57.049 --> 00:15:02.709 Apt, Debian Apt 3.0 stable has been released, which means we should see it in 00:15:02.709 --> 00:15:05.729 Debian 13 and Ubuntu 2504. 00:15:06.069 --> 00:15:10.469 And Apt 3.0 is one that actually is getting a bit of attention because it has 00:15:10.469 --> 00:15:12.869 a significantly refined command line interface, they say. 00:15:13.329 --> 00:15:18.429 A completely new package solver, and rather noticeable UI enhancements, 00:15:18.509 --> 00:15:22.749 including colorized text, a new layout style, and just a clearer formatting 00:15:22.749 --> 00:15:27.149 overall of the results, making it, I guess they say, easier to understand. 00:15:27.969 --> 00:15:30.969 And I guess at a technical level, they've upgraded Solver 3, 00:15:31.629 --> 00:15:35.489 which is a fully new backtracking system that avoids promoting manually installed 00:15:35.489 --> 00:15:39.149 packages for removal and handles the auto-removal more aggressively. 00:15:39.889 --> 00:15:43.289 So, Wes, you spelunked into App 3.0. yeah that's, 00:15:58.573 --> 00:16:02.773 Yeah. Oh, good. Yeah, really. 00:16:12.733 --> 00:16:13.953 Brent's a survivor. 00:16:35.033 --> 00:16:36.253 Oh, that's good to hear, yeah. 00:16:43.033 --> 00:16:46.273 So, but the thing I keep hearing about is this new colored output, 00:16:46.513 --> 00:16:50.453 this new columnar display or whatever they call it. Did you notice that kind of stuff? 00:16:58.573 --> 00:17:03.173 Yes. 00:17:27.753 --> 00:17:34.253 I hate to say this, but I bet that kind of thing had it been in place when Linus 00:17:34.253 --> 00:17:36.453 NumNuts was testing Pop! 00:17:36.593 --> 00:17:40.233 OS and he uninstalled his entire desktop, and then he basically slammed the 00:17:40.233 --> 00:17:42.393 distribution for him being the one to uninstall stuff. 00:17:42.873 --> 00:17:47.613 If it had been in big red text jumping out at him, he might have been more inclined to catch it. 00:18:01.233 --> 00:18:02.553 You, 00:18:32.133 --> 00:18:37.173 You could search, maybe. Hmm, yeah, I installed this when we were monkey-ing around with XYZ. 00:18:44.766 --> 00:18:48.746 It reminds me of get commit comments just to tie the story, two stories together, 00:18:48.946 --> 00:18:51.686 which actually are super helpful when you go back a month, a year, 00:18:52.026 --> 00:18:54.406 five years, and you're like, what did I do again? 00:18:58.166 --> 00:19:03.506 Onepassword.com slash unplugged. That's the number one password.com slash unplugged. 00:19:03.586 --> 00:19:04.506 And that's all lowercase. 00:19:04.746 --> 00:19:09.526 One password lets you secure every app, every device, and every identity, 00:19:09.766 --> 00:19:11.026 even the unmanaged ones. 00:19:11.166 --> 00:19:14.626 Let me ask you a question because I've been there. I know how this works. 00:19:14.766 --> 00:19:18.386 Do your end users always, and I mean always without exception, 00:19:18.586 --> 00:19:21.846 work on company-owned devices and IT-approved apps? 00:19:22.806 --> 00:19:26.866 I didn't think so. No, I mean they really can't these days. There's just so much coming at them. 00:19:27.006 --> 00:19:30.726 So the next question naturally is how do you keep your company's data safe when 00:19:30.726 --> 00:19:35.126 it's sitting on unmanaged apps, unmanaged devices, and all these types of things? 00:19:35.946 --> 00:19:39.926 Well, 1Password has the answer to this question. It's extended access management. 00:19:39.926 --> 00:19:44.646 One Password Extended Access Management helps you secure every sign-on for every 00:19:44.646 --> 00:19:49.926 app on every device because it solves the problems that traditional IAMs and 00:19:49.926 --> 00:19:52.646 NDMs just, well, they weren't built to touch. 00:19:53.166 --> 00:19:56.806 That's the beauty here. So you know password management is so important. 00:19:56.986 --> 00:20:00.706 And One Password has the most user-friendly and thus user-successful password 00:20:00.706 --> 00:20:01.706 manager application out. 00:20:01.806 --> 00:20:06.126 They're trusted by millions of users, over 150,000 businesses from IBM and Slack. 00:20:06.686 --> 00:20:10.646 But they're going beyond passwords. With extended access management, 00:20:10.806 --> 00:20:17.326 you're securing every app, every device, every identity, even contractor and unmanaged ones. 00:20:18.126 --> 00:20:23.606 That's the real power here, all from one dashboard. So go to 1Password.com slash unplugged. 00:20:23.646 --> 00:20:26.446 That's all lowercase. You can support the show. Check it out. Get more information. 00:20:27.266 --> 00:20:30.986 It's 1Password.com slash unplugged. And go there and see how this could make 00:20:30.986 --> 00:20:32.726 a real difference for you and your organization. 00:20:33.146 --> 00:20:36.086 I know it would have made a huge impact for me. So one more time, 00:20:36.206 --> 00:20:39.066 it's 1password.com slash unplugged. 00:20:41.996 --> 00:20:46.536 Timothy R. Butler over at Open for Business recently wrote a post titled, 00:20:46.796 --> 00:20:48.956 Apple Needs a Snow Sequoia. 00:20:49.316 --> 00:20:54.216 In non-Mac speak, that is to say, Apple needs an upgrade to macOS Sequoia that's 00:20:54.216 --> 00:20:58.216 like its earlier Snow Leopard upgrade to the Leopard OS. 00:20:58.796 --> 00:21:04.556 An upgrade that's all about how little it added and how much it's focused on fixing things. 00:21:05.016 --> 00:21:07.756 This is a call you hear in the Mac community every few years. 00:21:07.876 --> 00:21:10.396 Apple, stop adding features and just fix things. 00:21:11.216 --> 00:21:16.536 Apple has been transitioning toolkits and architectures basically since the iPhone launched. 00:21:16.756 --> 00:21:21.556 And so it has kind of led to certain apps getting restarted, 00:21:21.976 --> 00:21:26.056 recreated, or getting updates maybe that are meant to work on multiple platform 00:21:26.056 --> 00:21:28.036 types that are not ideal for macOS. 00:21:28.576 --> 00:21:32.756 And there has been this growing chorus of concerns about the quality of Mac software. 00:21:32.916 --> 00:21:39.496 And Timothy's article here, his first one, was it just took off like crazy in 00:21:39.496 --> 00:21:43.176 the Mac community. and it was really just criticizing the quality of Mac software 00:21:43.176 --> 00:21:45.536 and saying that Apple needs to do a better job. 00:21:46.316 --> 00:21:50.316 The funny thing is, is he came up with a follow-up while that was still getting 00:21:50.316 --> 00:21:54.196 rolling, saying, I want a better Mac, so I'm cheering for better Linux. 00:21:54.736 --> 00:21:58.516 And it says, like, by the way, what about Linux, Mac users? Gotcha. 00:21:59.716 --> 00:22:03.096 And as you can imagine, that also generated quite a bit of controversy. 00:22:03.636 --> 00:22:08.116 He says that my recent column on Apple's declining software quality seems to have hit a nerve. 00:22:08.796 --> 00:22:12.396 So why do any of us put up with software that grows increasingly buggy? 00:22:13.515 --> 00:22:18.835 One word, he says, hardware. And that's where I'd love to see someone help Linux take the next step. 00:22:19.075 --> 00:22:21.815 Apple knows how to turn out very good quality pieces of hardware. 00:22:22.495 --> 00:22:25.555 And he goes on about how much he likes their hardware. He says, 00:22:25.675 --> 00:22:28.275 for Apple aficionados troubled by the state of macOS, 00:22:28.595 --> 00:22:33.815 the modern GNOME desktop on Linux beckons as a more faithful implementation 00:22:33.815 --> 00:22:38.715 of the ideals of macOS than the current Mac does. I'm going to pause there. 00:22:39.635 --> 00:22:43.495 I believe I was making that point a couple of weeks ago when we were talking 00:22:43.495 --> 00:22:44.615 about the new GNOME release. 00:22:45.815 --> 00:22:50.315 I think there is something to it. It's not exact. I don't completely agree, 00:22:50.375 --> 00:22:51.295 and I'll get to where I disagree. 00:22:51.435 --> 00:22:55.195 But he says, GNOME painstakingly is consistent across the different apps and 00:22:55.195 --> 00:23:00.195 exudes the minimalist philosophy which Apple's hardware shines. 00:23:00.415 --> 00:23:05.055 Now is a perfect moment for a modern Linux push to take that wind back. 00:23:05.055 --> 00:23:09.295 What it needs, though, is to solve the remaining weakness on the hardware side. 00:23:10.115 --> 00:23:14.015 He says, of the gains of electronics manufacturing, I'm tired of being stuck 00:23:14.015 --> 00:23:16.075 between the Microsoft and Apple ecosystems. 00:23:16.515 --> 00:23:19.355 I would only need to decide to commit the resources necessary. 00:23:19.355 --> 00:23:21.895 One would only have to solve this hardware puzzle. 00:23:22.995 --> 00:23:28.335 He finishes up with kind of speculating if maybe Dell or Sony could come in 00:23:28.335 --> 00:23:30.655 and nail a dedicated Linux device. 00:23:30.655 --> 00:23:35.215 And he ends with, I say this not as someone who thinks Linux will ever dominate 00:23:35.215 --> 00:23:39.415 the personal computing world, but as someone who wants to see a spark of creativity 00:23:39.415 --> 00:23:43.035 and push beyond mediocrity in it again. 00:23:43.395 --> 00:23:47.735 Apple needs a real competitor, one with alternatives such as GNOME on Linux 00:23:47.735 --> 00:23:50.995 could actually beat if only the hardware rose to the occasion. 00:23:52.406 --> 00:23:55.386 Thought this was interesting in in a in a 00:23:55.386 --> 00:23:58.586 sense where he's almost over the target but i 00:23:58.586 --> 00:24:05.726 think he misses it just a little bit and what i mean by that is if you were 00:24:05.726 --> 00:24:12.186 to go back in time and try to convince a windows user to switch to mac os you 00:24:12.186 --> 00:24:16.046 might pitch them on the unix underpinnings if they're a geek if they're an average 00:24:16.046 --> 00:24:18.286 user you might have pitched them on the fact that it 00:24:18.446 --> 00:24:21.786 and have the virus problems that XP and Vista does and things like this, 00:24:21.826 --> 00:24:22.526 because it's back in that era. 00:24:24.266 --> 00:24:25.986 But what you wouldn't pitch them on. 00:24:26.126 --> 00:24:28.226 Well, yeah, I mean, I had felt most of my land with Photon Canids. 00:24:28.226 --> 00:24:29.426 We constantly put Linux into this hole. 00:24:29.626 --> 00:24:33.346 There wasn't a lot of room to begin with. You wouldn't pitch them on one-to-one functionality. 00:24:33.986 --> 00:24:38.806 You wouldn't pitch them on everything you can do today you can have on Linux. 00:24:39.086 --> 00:24:42.586 And you wouldn't tell them that you're going to be able to get hardware that 00:24:42.586 --> 00:24:46.046 does exactly what their PC hardware can do when you get a Mac. 00:24:46.786 --> 00:24:49.906 Because it's just not how it works. You have to make changes. 00:24:50.126 --> 00:24:51.746 You have to find alternatives. 00:24:52.046 --> 00:24:56.726 You have to transition to different workflows for these different operating systems. 00:24:57.006 --> 00:25:01.206 And if you try to promise anything else, or if you try to make Linux anything 00:25:01.206 --> 00:25:05.646 else, it's always going to fall short. What do you think of my argument here? 00:25:06.246 --> 00:25:10.646 Are they off mark? I feel like this is something we've always done with Linux 00:25:10.646 --> 00:25:13.846 is we're like, well, we can make it the perfect Windows replacement or we can 00:25:13.846 --> 00:25:18.546 make it the perfect Mac replacement if we just had exactly like Apple's hardware, 00:25:18.766 --> 00:25:20.066 but it ran Linux really well. 00:25:20.686 --> 00:25:23.946 This has been a failed strategy over and over again. 00:25:54.276 --> 00:25:59.316 Well, it's different functionality. Some of it superior, some of it different, some of it not there. 00:25:59.536 --> 00:26:04.256 And Brent, I think it's sort of where the framework laptop and that kind of 00:26:04.256 --> 00:26:09.656 stuff feels like a solid alternative to the MacBook ecosystem. 00:26:09.796 --> 00:26:13.096 It's not a direct one-to-one replacement. 00:26:13.536 --> 00:26:17.856 But if you're willing to modify your workflow and change things a little bit, 00:26:17.996 --> 00:26:19.656 it's an alternative that could be very appealing. 00:26:19.856 --> 00:26:23.476 And I wonder if you, as a framework owner, if you share that. 00:26:23.476 --> 00:26:28.996 I think I do. Like, from what I've seen and using it for the last two years, 00:26:29.096 --> 00:26:31.336 it's been a great laptop. And I'm using an older motherboard. 00:26:31.556 --> 00:26:36.656 So from what I hear, the experiences have been even better with modern framework 00:26:36.656 --> 00:26:38.716 motherboards. So that's really good to hear. 00:26:38.956 --> 00:26:45.396 They are ex-Apple people over there creating these. So they have some of that 00:26:45.396 --> 00:26:48.376 perspective and quality and what people are looking for. 00:26:49.276 --> 00:26:56.176 There are, of course, a couple issues because open source software is difficult. 00:26:57.376 --> 00:27:03.876 Well, that's the Canadian in me, let's say. But I think this is the most hope we've had in a while. 00:27:04.036 --> 00:27:08.436 We've seen a couple manufacturers come around and make developer-specific laptops 00:27:08.436 --> 00:27:10.516 that could be available for Linux. 00:27:10.896 --> 00:27:15.176 There's like the XPS, for instance, the Dev1, and a few others. 00:27:15.176 --> 00:27:18.076 But the framework i think has at least 00:27:18.076 --> 00:27:22.696 anecdotally found the most success took some time in our circles so these days 00:27:22.696 --> 00:27:27.516 what i'm seeing at conferences is people with max and people frameworks and 00:27:27.516 --> 00:27:34.136 the occasional sort of thinkpad but uh to me that's a sign of success headed 00:27:34.136 --> 00:27:37.096 in the right direction but it's a really tough problem to solve. 00:27:41.896 --> 00:27:46.256 I was thinking that, or maybe even more so, what Timothy is looking for here 00:27:46.256 --> 00:27:51.416 is the Pop OS software-hardware combination, because that's what System76 is 00:27:51.416 --> 00:27:52.616 going for here. That's true. 00:27:53.436 --> 00:27:56.516 And then you have a select set of hardware with some options, 00:27:56.956 --> 00:27:58.336 you know, some range of options. 00:28:02.131 --> 00:28:05.391 So the other thing that's in the back of my mind is so we have some vendors 00:28:05.391 --> 00:28:06.891 that are definitely attempting this. 00:28:07.111 --> 00:28:10.511 But the other thing that's in the back of my mind is in October, 00:28:10.771 --> 00:28:11.971 Windows 10 is end of life. 00:28:15.131 --> 00:28:20.371 And we should in a way. And, you know, I've heard a lot of people out there 00:28:20.371 --> 00:28:22.851 that are grumbling that are on Windows 10 right now that don't want to go to 00:28:22.851 --> 00:28:23.811 Windows 11 or they can't. 00:28:25.051 --> 00:28:28.131 There's also, I think, a ticking time bomb in Chrome OS. 00:28:29.071 --> 00:28:34.391 Google is actively working on Android-ifying Chrome OS, and the new desktop 00:28:34.391 --> 00:28:36.131 environment is going to be an Android launcher. 00:28:36.791 --> 00:28:39.871 And it's going to be Android OS, not Chrome OS. 00:28:40.351 --> 00:28:43.511 And I don't know if every user is going to love that transition. 00:28:43.911 --> 00:28:48.051 And it feels like, again, that's an area where Linux could be really useful. 00:28:48.931 --> 00:28:53.851 In my fantasy world, we'd somehow have users become aware of refurbished hardware 00:28:53.851 --> 00:28:59.791 that is just as good and better than a Chromebook with more ports and functionality that could run Linux. 00:29:00.291 --> 00:29:01.091 Oh, yeah. 00:29:01.311 --> 00:29:03.871 It could run minimal Linux. I mean, there's a lot of options out there. 00:29:04.391 --> 00:29:10.771 This is where I wish we as a show could push in some direction and affect change here. 00:29:10.911 --> 00:29:15.711 Because with Chrome OS going to Android and Windows 10 wrapping up in October, 00:29:15.971 --> 00:29:22.311 it feels like this summer is a Windows, Chrome OS expat opportunity for Linux. 00:29:22.311 --> 00:29:26.671 And I just wish we could reach out and help facilitate the opportunity for desktop Linux. 00:29:26.831 --> 00:29:29.351 I guess it's the advocate in me still. I can't get over it. But you know what 00:29:29.351 --> 00:29:31.071 I mean? It's like, it feels like there's a real window here. 00:29:31.251 --> 00:29:32.751 We've had these every now and then. 00:29:33.311 --> 00:29:36.051 And I really do think GNOME 47 and Forward, 00:29:38.111 --> 00:29:43.031 is just as nice, or if not better, than the stock Mac experience. 00:29:43.271 --> 00:29:47.991 It's cleaner, it's simpler to understand, and the default applications have 00:29:47.991 --> 00:29:49.631 roughly similar functionality. 00:29:49.931 --> 00:29:54.011 Maybe Apple Photos has a few things it's better, but it also has some UI stuff 00:29:54.011 --> 00:29:57.211 that's worse, right? So it's like really close. 00:30:19.612 --> 00:30:22.532 Sure, yeah. Although I'm going to push back on your first point. 00:30:23.472 --> 00:30:25.692 So you might be, I don't know, Wes, I mean, because you know, 00:30:25.712 --> 00:30:26.652 they've got the Plasma desktop. 00:30:26.892 --> 00:30:29.892 I mean, if they're really a savvy desktop user, they might pick a different 00:30:29.892 --> 00:30:31.192 direction than stock GNOME 47. 00:30:31.192 --> 00:30:34.712 But assuming they you know they really the 00:30:34.712 --> 00:30:37.572 simple unified ui that mac supposedly offers really 00:30:37.572 --> 00:30:40.652 appeals to them and they do go the gnome route even if 00:30:40.652 --> 00:30:43.412 it even if the ui doesn't have like every single feature or 00:30:43.412 --> 00:30:46.652 whatever they might want the reality is 00:30:46.652 --> 00:30:49.972 the underlying tools on 00:30:49.972 --> 00:30:53.692 linux for so many development workflows are superior 00:30:53.692 --> 00:30:57.172 to what you can do on mac os and easier 00:30:57.172 --> 00:31:00.292 than you can get them working on windows and they're improving at 00:31:00.292 --> 00:31:04.492 such a rapid pace that it's almost 00:31:04.492 --> 00:31:07.672 worth something that doesn't quite live it's almost worth compromising 00:31:07.672 --> 00:31:12.752 on the desktop to have access to this underlying powerful set of tools that 00:31:12.752 --> 00:31:17.552 are first class and now other operating systems are scrambling to be able to 00:31:17.552 --> 00:31:21.832 support on their platforms right like in this weird way wes for the user you're 00:31:21.832 --> 00:31:26.032 talking about that's more technical and maybe has higher expectations on their desktop environment. 00:31:26.452 --> 00:31:31.132 I think there's at least some of them that want access to that sweet, tasty, 00:31:31.332 --> 00:31:36.772 powerful Linux stuff where they have built-in CNames and they have built-in 00:31:36.772 --> 00:31:39.932 virtualization and they have all the different package manager options and they 00:31:39.932 --> 00:31:43.172 can solve all these things right there and run it locally on their system while they're building. 00:31:43.352 --> 00:31:45.972 Like, it's just, yes, you can do it with VMs and yes, you can do it with containers 00:31:45.972 --> 00:31:47.232 and yes, you can do it with WSL, 00:31:47.232 --> 00:31:51.212 but that stuff sometimes months or a year behind, it's sort of bolted on. 00:31:51.372 --> 00:31:56.632 It's not just sitting right there and being constantly updated by either Canonical or Arch or whoever. 00:32:11.465 --> 00:32:18.065 Yeah this is where chris decided uh it was it was worth nuking jeff's last guy 00:32:18.065 --> 00:32:21.845 you know if you had to take out some of my cannons and a bunch of my units there's 00:32:21.845 --> 00:32:25.585 no problem I had a couple of friends that I told you, too, I think. 00:32:39.785 --> 00:32:45.065 Configcat.com slash unplugged yeah this episode is brought to you by configcat 00:32:45.065 --> 00:32:49.445 the feature flag service that helps you release features faster and with less 00:32:49.445 --> 00:32:54.485 risk and they have unlimited seats awesome support and a very reasonable price tag. 00:32:54.625 --> 00:32:58.405 We're very excited to have ConfigCat as a sponsor because they make it easy 00:32:58.405 --> 00:33:00.205 to manage feature flags in your code. 00:33:00.365 --> 00:33:05.605 They have open source SDKs for over 19 platforms, and that includes JavaScript 00:33:05.605 --> 00:33:07.525 and Python and Ruby and Java. 00:33:07.705 --> 00:33:10.925 Yes, get out your horns, even Rust. 00:33:11.125 --> 00:33:16.105 You can toggle features on or off remotely without having to redeploy your code. 00:33:17.345 --> 00:33:21.925 What a game changer. 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Start shipping smarter today. 00:34:08.345 --> 00:34:11.245 Go to configcat.com slash unplugged. 00:34:15.030 --> 00:34:19.210 Well it's been far too long since we have done an arch server update and yes 00:34:19.210 --> 00:34:22.810 our one lone arch server remains i mean it just won't die, 00:34:26.110 --> 00:34:31.170 so as is tradition when we finally update this thing we do it live on air so 00:34:31.170 --> 00:34:37.850 if it blows up if our what is it six seven year old arch install here blows up now here's a problem, 00:34:39.650 --> 00:34:45.350 we have not done an update on this arch server since may 5th 2024, 00:34:49.390 --> 00:34:56.310 right uh so that means we have a total download size of 1.6 gigs we're going 00:34:56.310 --> 00:35:03.910 to have a total installed size of 5.9 gigs with a net upgrade of 745 megabytes Indeed. 00:35:04.150 --> 00:35:04.210 Yeah. 00:35:04.330 --> 00:35:08.790 But the big number in here, we're going to get a new CFS. We're going to get a new container run. 00:35:08.870 --> 00:35:10.970 We're going to get a new container run. I didn't even have to install anything, really. 00:35:15.690 --> 00:35:22.930 Okay. We're also going to go from Linux 6.6.3 to Linux 6.12.23. 00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:37.460 No. All right, Wes Payne. Let her rip. All right. 00:35:40.220 --> 00:35:40.540 Ooh. 00:35:41.500 --> 00:35:45.500 This might take a minute. It might. Yeah. So what I think we'll do. I did. 00:35:48.320 --> 00:35:51.600 Okay, good. Try to help us out here. All right. So, Wes, you get that thing 00:35:51.600 --> 00:35:54.800 kicked off. We'll check back in in a little bit. 00:35:59.300 --> 00:36:02.860 But we do have some great boosts to get to in the meantime, 00:36:05.220 --> 00:36:10.680 and the dude abides is our baller booster this week with 50 000 sats, 00:36:14.160 --> 00:36:19.660 it's nice and short he says headset boost also enjoyed the game episode well 00:36:19.660 --> 00:36:22.480 those are two very appreciated signals. Thank you very much. 00:36:22.700 --> 00:36:26.060 Appreciate the baller boost, the dude abides, and also that you enjoyed the 00:36:26.060 --> 00:36:29.220 game episode. I'm still feeling a little unsure about that, so I appreciate the feedback. 00:36:30.920 --> 00:36:35.080 And your sats, along with the ones we received in this episode and a generous 00:36:35.080 --> 00:36:40.160 boost, a direct boost from hybrid sarcasm, means we have met our goal to get 00:36:40.160 --> 00:36:43.500 the headsets, three fancy new headsets, 00:36:44.700 --> 00:36:46.640 arriving just in time for LinuxFest Northwest. 00:36:48.220 --> 00:36:49.320 Yes, thank you, everybody. 00:36:50.740 --> 00:36:55.620 Okay just one final follow-up question here brent did you have a good enough 00:36:55.620 --> 00:37:00.020 time did we convince you to try yeah single-player campaign. 00:37:11.540 --> 00:37:15.320 Without issues sounds a hint like a hint like maybe it's very hard yeah, 00:37:28.718 --> 00:37:31.258 I would love a good Star Trek game. So speaking my language. 00:37:31.278 --> 00:37:33.438 It also offers a paid online class for. 00:37:33.518 --> 00:37:36.918 You know, if you want to base your society around you. For a total of 42,000 cents. 00:37:41.058 --> 00:37:45.998 Would be absolutely excited for a 2E challenge. I always love to explore new 00:37:45.998 --> 00:37:48.098 2Es that I never thought would be up there. 00:37:48.298 --> 00:37:51.798 I think this 2E challenge is starting to come together. I'm starting to visualize 00:37:51.798 --> 00:37:54.198 a world where I've got like a dedicated terminal. 00:37:54.458 --> 00:37:57.058 The one I want is not realistic, but I'm starting to visualize it. 00:37:57.458 --> 00:38:00.198 And I think we're going to do it. We've got enough positive messages. 00:38:01.018 --> 00:38:04.358 The one thing I think I'd like to still sort of sort out is execution. 00:38:04.598 --> 00:38:08.118 So I could definitely use tips on like restrictions, what we can and can't do. 00:38:08.998 --> 00:38:11.458 When we, if we can break out those 00:38:11.458 --> 00:38:14.238 kinds of things. So I'm feeling like we just need to cook that bit up. 00:38:17.718 --> 00:38:22.618 Yeah. Well, yeah. Like, I mean, think about it like publishing shows and stuff. 00:38:23.618 --> 00:38:26.318 There are certain things that we have to use. web apps for that, 00:38:30.138 --> 00:38:31.038 I don't know. 00:38:31.618 --> 00:38:35.878 We could do some of that like wellness tracking so that like you can meet 80% 00:38:35.878 --> 00:38:39.178 of your time in the TUI and then the essentials you get 20% to fit it all in. 00:38:39.178 --> 00:38:43.758 Yeah yeah hey Odyssey Western is back with 25,000 sats, 00:38:45.858 --> 00:38:50.118 headphone boosts thank you sir appreciate it we got there we got there, 00:38:58.724 --> 00:38:59.124 Yeah. 00:39:08.044 --> 00:39:09.924 Oh, good. Maybe it's the ADD. 00:39:15.244 --> 00:39:19.324 That is kind of our hope, is to kind of keep it fresh. Mostly you kind of know 00:39:19.324 --> 00:39:23.224 the range of topics we're going to be sort of over the target on, 00:39:23.284 --> 00:39:24.724 but every now and then we like to do something different. 00:39:25.064 --> 00:39:27.664 Keep us on our toes, too. Regarding the data. 00:39:31.524 --> 00:39:35.604 If I wasn't already playing nice, 00:39:39.204 --> 00:39:45.424 right on right on you know I actually wonder if the stream couldn't be useful 00:39:45.424 --> 00:39:48.044 for people that are attending too like that something that's been in the back 00:39:48.044 --> 00:39:51.404 of my mind is if you attend you tune in you get sort of the 411 on what's going on, 00:39:53.104 --> 00:39:54.984 he's asked if he's supposed to sign up for talks nope, 00:39:57.904 --> 00:40:03.164 show up Do your thing. As Brent says, let your freak collar? 00:40:03.504 --> 00:40:06.424 I don't know. Because I don't have flags up there, so I'm not sure. 00:40:07.004 --> 00:40:14.624 Well, the flyover friend flew over with 22,222 sats. Simply says, headset fund. 00:40:14.984 --> 00:40:21.404 Hey, hey! Thank you. We really appreciate that. Somewhat Justin comes in with 4,004. 00:40:21.404 --> 00:40:22.944 Sats. Ooh, it's crisp, though. It is. 00:40:23.024 --> 00:40:26.044 I would love to see a window tiling manager challenge. Yeah, 00:40:26.104 --> 00:40:30.524 that's another top requested one. punishment you have to disable all window 00:40:30.524 --> 00:40:36.084 rules tiling and yes I do that the aspect ratio or you have to have been stretched slightly but it's. 00:40:36.084 --> 00:40:37.024 Not it's not. 00:40:37.024 --> 00:40:40.444 Realistic I could do access to you easier than I could do a tiling window manager 00:40:40.444 --> 00:40:47.884 I might take that oh okay yeah yeah right that's the. 00:40:47.884 --> 00:40:49.324 Okay so how many different. 00:40:49.324 --> 00:40:51.964 Playing it damn I on Super Nintendo. 00:40:51.964 --> 00:40:55.404 Gameboy Advance okay see. 00:41:03.010 --> 00:41:04.170 Hey, congratulations. 00:41:12.590 --> 00:41:15.730 Oh, too soon. Too soon. 00:41:16.270 --> 00:41:19.790 Well, Hybrid Sarcasm shared 10,000 sats with us. 00:41:21.630 --> 00:41:26.630 Loved episode 609. I'm a huge StarCraft fan, and it was a lot of fun to hear 00:41:26.630 --> 00:41:28.250 you guys having so much fun with it. 00:41:28.770 --> 00:41:31.010 Also, plus one for the 2E challenge. 00:41:31.410 --> 00:41:32.850 Which you want to play some subset of. 00:41:33.010 --> 00:41:36.590 I'm adding you to the list. Yeah, Brent's got a full-on addiction now. 00:41:37.010 --> 00:41:40.370 He's been basically playing StarCraft since we hung up last week. 00:41:40.530 --> 00:41:42.890 Where do I get rehab? Is there a phone number I can call? 00:41:46.930 --> 00:41:48.550 Yeah, come on, man. Come on. 00:41:48.770 --> 00:41:50.030 Brent, hey, Brent, it's Sunday. 00:41:50.030 --> 00:41:54.510 That is pretty compelling. Just like, oh, I ordered fun game time from the internet, 00:41:54.510 --> 00:41:56.270 and then it just showed up, and I can use it. 00:41:58.190 --> 00:42:00.770 Just says Putin Jeff. Just says Putin Jeff. 00:42:00.910 --> 00:42:01.090 Huh. 00:42:01.790 --> 00:42:01.950 Huh. 00:42:02.210 --> 00:42:02.510 PJ. 00:42:03.010 --> 00:42:06.470 Are you boosting the show this week, too? Are you testing node capacity? 00:42:06.830 --> 00:42:11.050 Yeah, I do. Test for Wes, a little coin for the headset. Look at you contributing 00:42:11.050 --> 00:42:12.550 to the headset fund. What? 00:42:27.930 --> 00:42:30.130 Okay. Under that fund... 00:42:36.810 --> 00:42:38.810 To recreate that i just kept. 00:42:40.550 --> 00:42:41.190 Ah 00:42:43.730 --> 00:42:45.590 this is not uh what. 00:42:45.590 --> 00:42:50.230 Gene did not like he did not like the gameplay he says non-gameplay bits were 00:42:50.230 --> 00:42:54.030 good but he didn't like the gameplay so there you go it's good to hear from 00:42:54.030 --> 00:42:59.290 gene though through wes i suppose oh okay. 00:42:59.290 --> 00:43:00.670 I see it's also got what like. 00:43:00.670 --> 00:43:01.650 Four Wes. 00:43:01.650 --> 00:43:04.370 I am noting most of your tests are also rows of ducks. 00:43:04.630 --> 00:43:06.030 So good job playing the game. 00:43:06.790 --> 00:43:09.370 Yeah, you did. Speaking of rows of ducks, 8-tone came in with a row of ducks. 00:43:10.250 --> 00:43:14.950 I've heard some rumblings about the R36S and Max in the Love 2D community. 00:43:15.130 --> 00:43:18.950 It'd be very cool to use the R36 to see it gain a little more traction as a 00:43:18.950 --> 00:43:21.150 target platform for amateur game development. 00:43:21.190 --> 00:43:23.910 Yeah, it's just like a rectangular construction. 00:43:24.110 --> 00:43:26.790 R36 is still the device to have, although I do like my screen. 00:43:26.790 --> 00:43:28.730 Ergonomics may be at the end of the shape. 00:43:28.730 --> 00:43:32.550 In the bedroom just every night I pick it up play a few games I got video poker 00:43:32.550 --> 00:43:37.670 on there it's a lot of fun it's really simple no fuss no muss, 00:43:47.995 --> 00:43:48.595 Oh, really? 00:43:53.475 --> 00:43:55.935 That's... There's something there, I think. 00:43:56.395 --> 00:43:57.715 Does it run StarCraft? 00:43:59.135 --> 00:44:01.575 You know, I wouldn't be surprised if you could actually get it on there. 00:44:03.135 --> 00:44:06.995 Yeah, it actually does have... It does have the StarCraft 64. 00:44:13.795 --> 00:44:15.915 Yeah! Also... 00:44:25.055 --> 00:44:26.395 There you go. Okay. 00:44:26.955 --> 00:44:30.955 It does seem perfect for just taking it on the plane, carrying it in your bag 00:44:30.955 --> 00:44:33.475 for a little downtime here and there while you're waiting for whatever. 00:44:34.055 --> 00:44:39.035 Don't ever make a show about gaming again. Or at least put the technical parts 00:44:39.035 --> 00:44:41.135 at the beginning and the gaming at the end. 00:44:41.255 --> 00:44:43.675 I was moving forward 30 seconds until gaming was over. 00:44:43.975 --> 00:44:47.655 At least this happens once every two-ish years. 00:44:47.995 --> 00:44:52.435 But keep up the good work and also never gaming again. 00:44:53.055 --> 00:44:56.475 You see what I'm saying? You see what I'm saying? Exactly. 00:45:06.895 --> 00:45:07.415 Oh. 00:45:08.455 --> 00:45:08.975 Ah. 00:45:10.035 --> 00:45:14.295 That is true. I'd like to know. I'd like to know. 00:45:14.615 --> 00:45:20.535 There's Gene Bane. He's back with 13,559 sats. 00:45:22.455 --> 00:45:25.335 Here's some coin for the headsets. I read the bit about how he hates the gaming. 00:45:25.995 --> 00:45:29.695 He's testing Wes, and he's testing Wes some more. All right. 00:45:30.555 --> 00:45:35.315 Thank you, Gene. Feedback received. We will never talk about video games again. No, I'm kidding. 00:45:35.635 --> 00:45:37.915 Although we don't do it very... I think it's actually been more than two years. 00:45:38.075 --> 00:45:41.815 I just came up with two years as a random time, but it may have been more than that. 00:45:46.415 --> 00:45:48.935 Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're gonna work it in slowly though, so don't worry. 00:46:03.259 --> 00:46:03.739 Oh. 00:46:06.979 --> 00:46:10.259 That's got to be kind of crushing. That sucks, man. Sorry to hear that. 00:46:10.619 --> 00:46:11.499 All right, you got it. We're only 00:46:11.499 --> 00:46:14.299 going to be talking about gaming going forward. Guarantee it. I cheat. 00:46:14.759 --> 00:46:18.299 Thank you, Sire. It's good to hear from you. Sorry to hear about all the lost hours, man. 00:46:18.679 --> 00:46:23.559 Well, Menin boosted in 2000s Satoshis. Hey, guys. 00:46:23.779 --> 00:46:28.619 A small boost towards the headset from your listener here in Bangalore, India. 00:46:29.079 --> 00:46:30.179 Aha, thank you. 00:46:31.619 --> 00:46:35.739 Using fountain to listen to the shows and thanks for all the excellent work you do. 00:46:36.899 --> 00:46:40.259 Thank you for checking in nice to hear from you from banglador and thank you 00:46:40.259 --> 00:46:46.519 for the headset fund appreciate it tomato comes in with 5 000 sats i enjoy the 00:46:46.519 --> 00:46:49.639 variety of shows and styles recently including the gaming silliness i wouldn't 00:46:49.639 --> 00:46:54.439 want every show to be like that but once in a while it's fun yeah all right i think that's fair, 00:46:57.879 --> 00:47:01.879 yeah no kidding that was our one shot you're right about that. 00:47:07.299 --> 00:47:09.359 Oh it's got the star crafts in there of course, 00:47:12.179 --> 00:47:14.299 oh castle crashers yeah that's fun. 00:47:28.579 --> 00:47:30.819 And i like something to look at we. 00:47:30.819 --> 00:47:37.719 Do like links to nix configs thank you uh that seems crazy but maybe it's the the muso comes. 00:47:37.719 --> 00:47:39.079 In with 50 000. 00:47:39.079 --> 00:47:43.259 Sets kasuri uh boosted in 5 000 sets unplugged. 00:47:43.259 --> 00:47:44.479 Headset fund is. 00:47:44.479 --> 00:47:50.539 Here's my multi-monitor setup 32 inch 1440 ultrawide with a 165 hertz. 00:47:50.539 --> 00:47:52.359 It's a refresh. Okay. 00:47:52.899 --> 00:47:59.759 And an LG dual-up ultra-tall on each side of the ultra-wide running NixOS and KDE Plasma. 00:48:00.599 --> 00:48:06.699 So, just to be clear, that's two portrait monitors and one regular one all hooked up to a VFIO rig. 00:48:07.019 --> 00:48:11.919 Oh, interesting. I'd love to hear more about that. Thank you, 00:48:11.999 --> 00:48:13.779 Kyrgiosia. That's a killer setup. 00:48:15.079 --> 00:48:16.719 WH2050 is here with 5,000 sets. 00:48:18.759 --> 00:48:22.119 I was catching up on the back catalog and I just listened to episode 551. 00:48:22.279 --> 00:48:25.239 A listener boosted in asking about using the Quest with glasses. 00:48:25.519 --> 00:48:29.019 Well, I haven't heard any more on the subject, so I thought I would mention. 00:48:29.139 --> 00:48:33.259 I struggled with this until I discovered you can get prescription lenses with 00:48:33.259 --> 00:48:35.239 adapters that snap over the Quest screens. 00:48:35.719 --> 00:48:39.119 The place I got mine is out of China, so the terrorism might not be worth it, 00:48:39.299 --> 00:48:42.999 but you could do a bit of search-exing. How do we say that? 00:48:43.959 --> 00:48:48.239 Search-NG. You know, something besides Google. to go see what options are out there. 00:48:48.859 --> 00:48:52.959 WH, that's great. Good to know. I'm glad to hear you can get prescription lenses. 00:48:53.199 --> 00:48:55.979 Sounds like it just might be a little bit how you go about it. 00:49:04.637 --> 00:49:04.957 True. 00:49:13.177 --> 00:49:15.657 I think, yeah, I think Fuzzy should do it. I think he should do it. 00:49:15.717 --> 00:49:17.077 Give in to the StarCraft side. 00:49:17.217 --> 00:49:21.037 It sounds like maybe secretly we should start a little JB server and just whoever 00:49:21.037 --> 00:49:23.397 pops in gets beaten by Brent, right? 00:49:25.417 --> 00:49:26.357 Meat for the grinder. 00:49:26.737 --> 00:49:30.137 Well, Simon boosted in 3,333 sets. 00:49:32.457 --> 00:49:35.797 Hey, Chris. Yeah, there's also a little human sort of cultural problem. 00:49:36.077 --> 00:49:37.677 The other technical problem in that sense. 00:49:37.677 --> 00:49:38.217 And Zelda 3. 00:49:38.297 --> 00:49:39.877 I would argue on the Windows side, but here we are. 00:49:39.997 --> 00:49:43.957 Well, how about co-op link to the past randomizer? 00:49:44.597 --> 00:49:48.217 It's amazing. Maybe something for LinuxFest Northwest. 00:49:49.017 --> 00:49:52.977 So this is a real thing I did not even know existed. There's a website. 00:49:53.117 --> 00:49:55.697 I'll have it linked in the show notes. It's amazing. 00:49:56.377 --> 00:49:58.337 And I think we should take a look at it after the show. 00:49:59.177 --> 00:50:02.617 Simon, you have opened my eyes to a world I did not even know existed. 00:50:02.617 --> 00:50:06.877 So thank you very much. And it could be the perfect thing for LinuxFest Northwest. 00:50:07.577 --> 00:50:10.457 Producer Jeff is here with a row of ducks. 00:50:11.657 --> 00:50:17.117 And he says, happy West Day. Yeah, that's true. It was a birthday week. 00:50:20.577 --> 00:50:26.017 It was a birthday week for Mr. Payne, our very own. And PJ boosted in to say 00:50:26.017 --> 00:50:27.737 thanks, or to say happy birthday. Yay! 00:50:29.977 --> 00:50:31.297 Did you have a good day, Wes? 00:50:36.037 --> 00:50:38.057 Yeah all right all right, 00:50:49.377 --> 00:50:54.537 Help. But first time, please. oh congratulations thank you wow it's been a minute 00:50:54.537 --> 00:50:59.177 since we heard from a long timer tr selby is he caffeinated often you know in 00:50:59.177 --> 00:51:01.837 a chat room or something like that so it's good to see where the rubber. 00:51:01.837 --> 00:51:09.297 Meets the road used towards getting the brent bus new rubber boots so you can roll on home thank you. 00:51:09.297 --> 00:51:09.717 Ah 00:51:15.397 --> 00:51:17.937 yeah ubuntu 610 was a solid release, 00:51:22.397 --> 00:51:26.677 oh me oh i see he's got a math to it i like it, 00:51:32.291 --> 00:51:33.031 What'd he say? 00:51:37.391 --> 00:51:41.691 Well, thank you, Caffeinated Linux. It's really good to hear from you. That's awesome. 00:51:42.351 --> 00:51:49.551 Well, BHH32 sent in 10,000 sats. Here's my contribution to the headphone fund. 00:51:49.991 --> 00:51:51.591 See you at LinuxFest Northwest. 00:51:52.251 --> 00:51:58.291 It'll be my very first LinuxFest, and I'm super excited for the Cosmic and the 00:51:58.291 --> 00:51:59.491 Start Your Own Business talks. 00:52:00.111 --> 00:52:04.191 Plus my 12 year old daughter is excited for the Blender for Beginnings. 00:52:04.451 --> 00:52:05.311 That should be good. 00:52:06.531 --> 00:52:10.651 Also if the community is interested I have a new blog post for the community 00:52:10.651 --> 00:52:14.511 that may be interesting. I talk about a controversial topic. 00:52:14.931 --> 00:52:17.491 Rust is easy and Go is hard. 00:52:18.231 --> 00:52:20.291 I'll link to that in the show notes. 00:52:25.231 --> 00:52:30.791 Well you know what? BHH we look forward to seeing you. and you'll know it's 00:52:30.791 --> 00:52:35.371 us because we'll be the one with big, fancy broadcast headsets on. That's right! 00:52:35.811 --> 00:52:39.911 Thank you, everybody. We really appreciate it. Great way to support the show. 00:52:40.691 --> 00:52:44.131 Again, all of you also boosted in below the 2,000 set cutoff. 00:52:44.551 --> 00:52:48.671 We do read them all, of course. And a shout-out to all of the SAT streamers. 00:52:48.991 --> 00:52:51.951 31 of you stream SATs as you listen to this episode collectively. 00:52:52.211 --> 00:52:56.751 You SAT streamers stacked 40,927 SATs. 00:52:56.811 --> 00:53:00.311 When you combine it with our boosters, This episode brought in a grand total 00:53:00.311 --> 00:53:07.171 of 351,847 sats raised for episode 610 of your Unplugged program. 00:53:12.288 --> 00:53:15.968 If you'd like to boost in, the easiest way is Fountain. It integrates with Strike, 00:53:16.068 --> 00:53:18.788 and there's several options there, and they manage all the lightning stuff for 00:53:18.788 --> 00:53:19.788 you, and you can boost right in. 00:53:19.928 --> 00:53:25.108 But there are also some very fun and challenging, in some cases, self-hosted options. 00:53:25.328 --> 00:53:29.088 You can get started at podcastapps.com. So you've got the full range to choose 00:53:29.088 --> 00:53:33.548 from to boost into the show, to send us a message, and support each individual production. 00:53:33.728 --> 00:53:36.568 What we love about it is all of this is open source. 00:53:36.748 --> 00:53:40.748 We run our own nodes. The infrastructure itself is peer-to-peer and free software. 00:53:40.748 --> 00:53:43.568 It all runs on top of Linux and of 00:53:43.568 --> 00:53:46.388 course even the sats themselves there's no 00:53:46.388 --> 00:53:49.188 middleman so we don't have to go to Stripe or PayPal they don't have to take 00:53:49.188 --> 00:53:54.008 five percents all of your sats go directly to us and then the splits are built 00:53:54.008 --> 00:53:57.388 in automatically so when you send a boost a bit of it automatically goes to 00:53:57.388 --> 00:53:59.008 Wes and Brent and myself and editor 00:53:59.008 --> 00:54:04.088 Drew the podcast does have a question mainly for you Brent I think I'm. 00:54:04.088 --> 00:54:04.908 Going to do some car. 00:54:04.908 --> 00:54:08.768 Camping if possible do I need permission from in the college to do so. 00:54:08.768 --> 00:54:09.728 We ask you support with a boost. Any tips? 00:54:09.988 --> 00:54:14.528 Or become a member and get access to a whole bunch more stuff including the 00:54:14.528 --> 00:54:16.228 bootleg and the ad-free version of the show. 00:54:16.548 --> 00:54:19.468 And thank you everybody who does support us. It makes all the difference in 00:54:19.468 --> 00:54:20.368 the world and it keeps us going. 00:54:22.828 --> 00:54:27.888 We definitely need you to buckle up for this one because we got two great picks this week. 00:54:28.468 --> 00:54:32.788 One, I'm just going to throw out there as the first that was mentioned earlier 00:54:32.788 --> 00:54:34.908 which is the randomizer game for Zelda. 00:54:36.148 --> 00:54:39.228 And you can find this, it's on the web it's like 00:54:39.228 --> 00:54:47.428 alt tpr.com well it's it's uh it's a playthrough that shuffles the location 00:54:47.428 --> 00:54:52.308 of all the important items in the game and then you can join with a co-player 00:54:52.308 --> 00:54:56.888 and essentially play like a fresh version of breath of the wild or not breath 00:54:56.888 --> 00:54:58.228 of the wild but legend of zelda, 00:55:01.353 --> 00:55:05.313 It is. It's GPL3. It's web host, or you can host it yourself. 00:55:09.053 --> 00:55:13.833 And randomizer. Yeah, it is really great. So link to that in the show notes. 00:55:14.173 --> 00:55:17.893 But this week, I think this might even have been a prediction of mine, 00:55:17.953 --> 00:55:18.953 but that's not why it's in here. 00:55:19.433 --> 00:55:22.373 You had a chance to play with chat chippity. 00:55:23.113 --> 00:55:26.413 And it's not me just being cute. It's actually the name of a terminal client 00:55:26.413 --> 00:55:31.033 tool that lets you get answers from LLMs on the command line. 00:55:31.033 --> 00:55:35.413 It's chat, get information, print information, TTY, is what it stands for. 00:55:35.953 --> 00:55:38.153 And it's a command line client for ChatGPT. 00:55:38.153 --> 00:55:40.873 It allows you to chat with your chosen model in a terminal. 00:55:40.953 --> 00:55:44.533 You can even pipe your output to it where that starts to seem pretty fancy. 00:55:44.533 --> 00:55:48.913 Plus one here for the idea of making all those great AI songs available for 00:55:48.913 --> 00:55:52.493 streaming. There's some real gems in there that we'd love to browse through. 00:56:00.053 --> 00:56:02.493 And just a general thanks for the great work. Well, thank you. 00:56:12.353 --> 00:56:13.513 It often happens like... 00:56:31.026 --> 00:56:34.746 Yeah, someone has a habit of overproducing the bootleg. 00:56:36.946 --> 00:56:41.786 Which also means you could echo the air output and have it start diagnosing 00:56:41.786 --> 00:56:43.506 for you right there. Absolutely. Uh-huh. 00:56:43.906 --> 00:56:45.926 Yeah, yeah. Yeah. 00:56:50.326 --> 00:56:53.586 And our last boost from Bronze Wing with a row of ducks. 00:56:54.906 --> 00:57:00.246 Headphones and gaming. Yes! Hey, we're well in progress on both of them. Yeah. 00:57:09.366 --> 00:57:14.306 What could go wrong what could go wrong i hope you ran it with sudo too, 00:57:17.166 --> 00:57:19.866 oh okay all right i would have done it with sudo, 00:57:23.806 --> 00:57:25.406 I was going to find you because it felt. 00:57:25.786 --> 00:57:26.106 Ooh, 00:57:31.966 --> 00:57:33.326 get your coast ready. 00:57:59.486 --> 00:58:03.866 But then it started to actually be useful like i i i was i start i read west 00:58:03.866 --> 00:58:06.446 had this whole thread of his result and i'm like oh that's funny that's cute 00:58:06.446 --> 00:58:08.066 and by the end of i'm like oh, 00:58:08.766 --> 00:58:13.546 oh you're actually using this to get things done now like this was actually 00:58:13.546 --> 00:58:17.106 useful and andy and i i thought this would be a really funny gag for us to talk 00:58:17.106 --> 00:58:20.366 about look at the stupid thing you can do a chat GPD from the terminal, 00:58:20.866 --> 00:58:24.786 but as you played with it, I realized actually, this is something useful. 00:59:27.615 --> 00:59:31.335 Yeah, I always do, actually. I love it. Even when I'm on a meeting sometimes 00:59:31.335 --> 00:59:34.935 and I got a screen behind me, I'm like, should I throw Hollywood up on that screen? 00:59:35.135 --> 00:59:38.075 I'd much prefer something that's like a fake defrag. I love the way those look. 00:59:55.095 --> 00:59:59.035 You answered my question. I was going to say, you've got to give Spectacle at 00:59:59.035 --> 01:00:00.795 least a little dimension. 01:00:08.015 --> 01:00:09.315 How did you hack it in? 01:00:11.395 --> 01:00:17.395 Oh, yeah, okay. Open Router talks like chat GPTs, OpenAI, whatever, API? Exactly. Okay. 01:00:57.195 --> 01:01:01.695 Uh srts or sub subtitle files basically the same thing yeah yeah it could be a subtitle. 01:01:18.235 --> 01:01:21.535 Uh yeah i haven't actually had a chance to try it yet, 01:01:23.895 --> 01:01:27.015 right it's just basically like a python file that 01:01:27.015 --> 01:01:30.375 hooks in to um all the 01:01:30.375 --> 01:01:34.995 you know apis we have around open source llm so here's how it reads this script 01:01:34.995 --> 01:01:39.855 extracts structured information from vtt files such as zoom meeting transcripts 01:01:39.855 --> 01:01:44.955 or closed captions and converts it into json and markdown formats this includes 01:01:44.955 --> 01:01:49.255 an overview participants main topics key points decisions and action items. 01:01:49.495 --> 01:01:53.115 It uses open source LLMs to handle the data extraction and summarization, 01:01:53.275 --> 01:01:56.755 ensuring everything can be run locally without the need to share with third parties. 01:01:56.975 --> 01:02:02.495 But presumably also, if you wanted to, you could plug in a third party API provider as well. Hmm. 01:03:00.324 --> 01:03:01.284 Sort of create a context. 01:03:03.864 --> 01:03:04.524 Right, okay. 01:03:08.684 --> 01:03:11.884 Okay, so you solved for what I was thinking while you were talking is, 01:03:11.984 --> 01:03:17.584 God, you know what I would love is some sort of local llama instance. Maybe it's on my NAS. 01:03:18.304 --> 01:03:23.244 Maybe it's on my best workstation. And it learns. And it knows my preferences 01:03:23.244 --> 01:03:26.224 somehow. And so it knows, oh, he always wants this kind of output. 01:03:27.004 --> 01:03:29.184 Or it knows my context between projects. 01:03:30.084 --> 01:03:35.244 Where you could point a command line tool at your own always learning system 01:03:35.244 --> 01:03:37.064 would be really something. 01:04:06.704 --> 01:04:11.264 Yeah, I mean, that's pretty neat. Yeah, yeah. 01:04:16.044 --> 01:04:19.964 Yeah. Your vibe shelling. Amazing. 01:04:25.984 --> 01:04:26.864 Mm-hmm. 01:05:06.689 --> 01:05:12.849 Chat, Jippity, we'll have a link to it in the show notes. Much of a hassle to get up and running? 01:05:19.309 --> 01:05:19.669 Okay. 01:05:23.329 --> 01:05:28.649 Oh, my God. It's LLMs all the way down. All the way down. 01:05:28.849 --> 01:05:32.889 OS, the chat room is already asking if they can get a version of your visualizer 01:05:32.889 --> 01:05:36.869 because they're looking for exactly that. So you're going to publish that stuff, right? 01:05:37.389 --> 01:05:44.029 Maybe one day. Stay tuned. You may never know. You said you had good news? Yeah. 01:05:45.169 --> 01:05:53.029 Oh, right. I forgot. I got so wrapped up in your cool pic there that I completely 01:05:53.029 --> 01:05:54.369 forgot we were doing like a thing. 01:05:55.009 --> 01:05:58.309 Yeah, go ahead. Reboot it. Let's do it. Let's find out. 01:06:00.509 --> 01:06:02.549 Do you want what? You want like a... 01:06:14.389 --> 01:06:18.869 I got it going, I think. Is it .4? Yeah. Yeah, it's going. 01:06:22.949 --> 01:06:27.049 All right. So this is where we wait and find out. 01:06:33.289 --> 01:06:38.209 Okay we're getting pings and we're getting replies i should say it appears the 01:06:38.209 --> 01:06:39.769 server is back from its reboot, 01:06:44.109 --> 01:06:46.129 all right all right you're getting in, 01:06:51.849 --> 01:06:57.829 yeah that is do you have the one thing to check is do we have our zfs pool or 01:06:57.829 --> 01:07:01.889 pools, if we have that, that's a good sign that the applications will start. 01:07:02.729 --> 01:07:04.269 All right, we got ZFS. 01:07:06.909 --> 01:07:11.409 Okay, we do not have applications yet, but the fact that the server is up and 01:07:11.409 --> 01:07:17.729 the ZFS pools are online, Wes Payne, I think you have the correct answer. 01:07:23.989 --> 01:07:28.729 At some point this is not going to work that was nearly a year between Arch 01:07:28.729 --> 01:07:33.009 updates unbelievable unbelievable that it worked so well, 01:07:38.269 --> 01:07:44.269 yeah he didn't even check the news he didn't even check the news yeah, 01:07:51.091 --> 01:07:54.891 Ah, whoo, don't do as we do. 01:07:55.051 --> 01:07:58.391 So what's the next irresponsible thing we could do in the next year before we 01:07:58.391 --> 01:08:02.171 update it next time that should add to this kind of suspense? 01:08:02.171 --> 01:08:04.071 Is there any ideas out there? 01:08:04.391 --> 01:08:08.531 Well, I mean, you can always take some comfort in knowing that I'm constantly 01:08:08.531 --> 01:08:11.491 adding new applications to this thing and new data. 01:08:11.531 --> 01:08:16.171 So I'm actively using it and adding more applications that it's constantly having to run. 01:08:16.431 --> 01:08:19.551 So every time we do this, it's gotten substantially more complicated. 01:08:19.551 --> 01:08:22.631 I heard you say StarCraft server is what I heard. 01:08:22.891 --> 01:08:24.491 I like where your head's at, Brantley. 01:08:28.411 --> 01:08:29.971 Oh, now I like where your head's at. 01:08:30.111 --> 01:08:32.051 Oh, I don't like this at all. 01:08:32.531 --> 01:08:36.071 All right, well, boost it and tell us what we should run on our beloved Arch 01:08:36.071 --> 01:08:39.011 server that should finally be put out of its misery, but we just can't kill. 01:08:39.111 --> 01:08:43.751 Let us know also your thoughts on if anything could succeed Git and GitHub in 01:08:43.751 --> 01:08:45.111 the next five to ten years. 01:08:47.071 --> 01:08:50.971 And last but not least we want to know if you tune into a saturday stream on 01:08:50.971 --> 01:08:55.451 the i think it's the 26th for linux fest northwest and we are still polling 01:08:55.451 --> 01:09:00.451 everybody for their thoughts on the gaming content but without with all of that said. 01:09:04.111 --> 01:09:10.111 Why not make it a linux tuesday on a sunday join us at around well we really 01:09:10.111 --> 01:09:14.711 start around 9 30 but it's 10 a.m pacific we have it over at jupyterbroadcasting.com slash calendar. 01:09:15.191 --> 01:09:19.031 And if you've got a podcast and a 2.0 app, it just shows up in your feed ready to go. 01:09:19.371 --> 01:09:23.831 You can plug jblive.fm into anything that plays in the MP3 stream. 01:09:23.971 --> 01:09:25.091 And of course, we've got the Mumble Room, too. 01:09:25.791 --> 01:09:27.591 That's a lot of stuff. So I just 01:09:27.591 --> 01:09:30.011 try to run through it as quickly as I can without screwing it up too bad. 01:09:30.531 --> 01:09:34.431 Links to what we talked about today, linuxunplugged.com slash 610. 01:09:35.391 --> 01:09:39.551 RSS feed, contact form, Mumble info, membership stuff, all of that's over there. 01:09:40.691 --> 01:09:42.951 Thanks so much for joining us on this week's episode of the Unplugged program. 01:09:42.951 --> 01:09:44.651 See you next Tuesday, as in Sunday.
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