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Distro Double Trouble

Apr 20, 2025
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Fedora 42 and Ubuntu 25.04 are here—We break down what's new, what stands out, and what we love most about each release.

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Transcript

WEBVTT 00:00:11.525 --> 00:00:16.165 Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. 00:00:17.125 --> 00:00:18.105 And my name is Brent. 00:00:18.645 --> 00:00:21.825 Hello, gentlemen. Coming up on the show today, we're going to take a look at 00:00:21.825 --> 00:00:26.605 Fedora 42 and Ubuntu 2504, fresh off the mirrors, what's new, 00:00:26.685 --> 00:00:30.005 what works, maybe what doesn't, and our thoughts after trying each of them out 00:00:30.005 --> 00:00:31.465 and a few of the different spins. 00:00:31.665 --> 00:00:33.825 Then we're going to round out the show with some great boosts, 00:00:34.085 --> 00:00:36.185 killer picks, and a lot more. 00:00:36.325 --> 00:00:39.645 There is quite a bit of show today. So before we get into it, 00:00:39.745 --> 00:00:43.125 we have to say time-appropriate greetings to our virtual lug. Hello, Mumble Room. 00:00:44.325 --> 00:00:47.365 Hey, Chris. Hey, Wes. And hello, Brent. Hi. 00:00:49.105 --> 00:00:51.025 Hello. And hello, everybody up there in the quiet listening, 00:00:51.225 --> 00:00:52.505 too. The very quiet listening. 00:00:53.105 --> 00:00:57.945 And a big good morning to our friends at Tailscale, tailscale.com slash unplugged. 00:00:58.385 --> 00:01:02.485 Tailscale is the easiest way to connect your devices and services to each other, wherever they are. 00:01:02.485 --> 00:01:06.325 And if you go to tailscale.com slash unplugged, you'll get tailscale for free 00:01:06.325 --> 00:01:09.945 on 100 devices and three users, no credit card required. 00:01:09.945 --> 00:01:14.205 And then you'll build yourself out a flat mesh network protected by... 00:01:14.205 --> 00:01:17.745 It really is. And it's fast. It's crazy fast. 00:01:18.125 --> 00:01:22.765 You'll be amazed on how many devices, architectures, applications that integrate 00:01:22.765 --> 00:01:24.925 tailscale. It's really quite amazing. 00:01:25.145 --> 00:01:29.565 And then on top of all of that, you can take your really complicated networks 00:01:29.565 --> 00:01:33.105 like myself. At the moment, I'm behind Carrier Grade Nat on two different cellular 00:01:33.105 --> 00:01:38.525 networks simultaneously, and Tailscale just seamlessly works through that. 00:01:38.665 --> 00:01:41.345 And everything talks to each other like they're just on their own land. 00:01:41.485 --> 00:01:44.885 You should try it out because it's going to change the way you do networking, 00:01:44.885 --> 00:01:49.545 and it makes all the legacy VPN systems look like something from the 90s. 00:01:49.625 --> 00:01:51.205 Tailscale is truly an innovation. 00:01:51.425 --> 00:01:56.065 Go to tailscale.com slash unplugged. Get it for free on 100 devices and three users. 00:01:56.065 --> 00:01:56.505 Our secret accountability. 00:01:56.505 --> 00:02:00.085 Try it out. You might really like it and take the path that me and many listeners 00:02:00.085 --> 00:02:03.705 have where you deploy it for yourself, changes the way you do networking, 00:02:03.705 --> 00:02:05.065 and then you bring it to work. 00:02:05.185 --> 00:02:09.525 And there are thousands of companies just like us that are using Tailscale for their infrastructure. 00:02:09.905 --> 00:02:13.345 Duolingo, Hugging Face, Instacart, and more, all using Tailscale. 00:02:13.545 --> 00:02:18.885 Try it for yourself or for a business. Just get started at tailscale.com slash unplugged. 00:02:21.065 --> 00:02:21.505 Wow. 00:02:21.505 --> 00:02:27.565 So I want to start with something sort of bittersweet, and that is that the 00:02:27.565 --> 00:02:30.925 self-hosted podcast will be wrapping up at the end of May. 00:02:31.525 --> 00:02:34.585 Alex and I have thought a lot about it for a while. When's the right time? 00:02:34.745 --> 00:02:37.125 How long does the show go? It's been going for about five years. 00:02:37.925 --> 00:02:41.325 And we thought with episode 150, because we're fans of nice round numbers, 00:02:41.585 --> 00:02:43.065 which comes in at the end of May. 00:02:44.576 --> 00:02:48.556 probably if you're going to pick a place, the right place to do it. 00:02:48.776 --> 00:02:52.256 And so I want to extend an invitation to the self-hosted community out there 00:02:52.256 --> 00:02:55.876 and everybody that's built up around that show to come join us over here at Linux Unplugged. 00:02:56.516 --> 00:02:58.936 We've always sort of viewed self-hosted as a sister podcast. 00:02:59.696 --> 00:03:06.276 And so much in self-hosting is built on open source, runs on Linux, so much. 00:03:06.416 --> 00:03:10.216 I mean, it really shares a lot of the same ideals that we do here on the show 00:03:10.216 --> 00:03:14.836 too. And so we're going to incorporate some of Brent and Wes and myself and 00:03:14.836 --> 00:03:16.616 Alex as well. He'll join us from time to time. 00:03:16.896 --> 00:03:20.356 Our adventures in self-hosting in Linux Unplugged in future episodes. 00:03:20.516 --> 00:03:22.676 Sort of like, well, you know, we do. We manage multiple topics. 00:03:22.676 --> 00:03:23.136 It should be a lot of fun. 00:03:23.156 --> 00:03:25.636 And that's one now, an extra one we get to now fold into the show. 00:03:26.656 --> 00:03:28.736 And, you know, we've been teasing this one for a few weeks. 00:03:29.596 --> 00:03:32.596 But the boys are ready to deploy their first Home Assistant instance. 00:03:33.956 --> 00:03:34.956 I'm slightly afraid. 00:03:35.676 --> 00:03:39.736 It's going to be great. I'll be there with you. Well, don't worry. It'll go great. 00:03:40.716 --> 00:03:45.736 And I haven't really decided what I'll do about replacing self-hosted. We'll see how that goes. 00:03:46.276 --> 00:03:48.676 Linux Fest is coming up. It's an opportunity to meet with people. 00:03:48.816 --> 00:03:51.076 But there's also a lot we can bring to the show. 00:03:52.136 --> 00:03:55.236 It's a little bit of extra work-life balance for both Alex and I. 00:03:55.776 --> 00:03:59.056 And it means it's an opportunity to bring a little more energy into Linux Unplugged. 00:03:59.076 --> 00:04:01.976 As the show grows, and this one has, it really gets big enough it could almost 00:04:01.976 --> 00:04:03.976 have a full-time person that just does one show. 00:04:04.576 --> 00:04:08.776 We're not quite there yet, but it is an opportunity to bring more of that into 00:04:08.776 --> 00:04:11.816 the Unplugged program. have Alex join us and tell us what he's been doing and 00:04:11.816 --> 00:04:13.456 what nots, all of that too. 00:04:13.956 --> 00:04:16.156 So while it's bittersweet, it's also good. 00:04:16.996 --> 00:04:21.476 It is the right move for both Alex and I. And it's an opportunity for us to 00:04:21.476 --> 00:04:24.016 incorporate stuff that we've wanted to talk about in Linux Unplugged, 00:04:24.056 --> 00:04:26.396 but also wanted to leave it open for self-hosted. 00:04:26.556 --> 00:04:29.356 So that is news item number one. 00:04:30.654 --> 00:04:36.734 Now, news item number two, we have decided we will be live Saturday and Sunday 00:04:36.734 --> 00:04:37.714 at LinuxFest Northwest. 00:04:38.494 --> 00:04:43.094 Here we go, boys! All right. Our LinuxFest Northwest coverage. 00:04:43.314 --> 00:04:44.954 Got our headsets and everything. 00:04:45.114 --> 00:04:50.814 Got the headsets. Thank you, audience. And big shout out to Hybrid Sarcasm with an extra side donation. 00:04:51.454 --> 00:04:57.454 So we're going to have LinuxFest Northwest coverage live Saturday, April 26, 10 a.m. 00:04:57.954 --> 00:05:03.154 Pacific, 1 p.m. Eastern. and then of course same time on Sunday we'll have Linux 00:05:03.154 --> 00:05:06.614 Unplugged itself live Sunday on April 27th at 10am, 00:05:07.134 --> 00:05:11.394 1pm Eastern we're going to also try to release the Saturday recording if we 00:05:11.394 --> 00:05:16.894 can I don't know what exactly it'll be coming up fast I know we're going to try some new stuff, 00:05:17.534 --> 00:05:20.354 Noah from the Ask Noah program is going to join us and help us with the production 00:05:20.354 --> 00:05:22.054 as well so you'll probably hear from him on the stream, 00:05:22.834 --> 00:05:25.614 we're going to try to do some men on the street, 00:05:26.554 --> 00:05:30.474 probably Brent and myself or somebody will go out and have a mobile setup and 00:05:30.474 --> 00:05:33.454 we'll be bringing guests to the live stream and talking to them about their 00:05:33.454 --> 00:05:35.614 sessions as well as trying to give you an overall sense, 00:05:36.474 --> 00:05:40.074 of the fest if you can't make it but as well if you are there we'll try to keep 00:05:40.074 --> 00:05:43.394 you informed on what's going on so you can kind of tune in and get an idea of what's happening. 00:05:43.854 --> 00:05:46.994 So big goal but I think we're going to have a lot of fun Saturday and Sunday 00:05:46.994 --> 00:05:52.734 coming up this next weekend as we record April 26th and the 27th both at 10 a.m. Pacific and 1 p.m. 00:05:52.734 --> 00:05:54.954 Eastern. Yeah right but there was actually multiple things going on for the 00:05:54.954 --> 00:05:58.934 celebration because there was like a GitLab interview and then a GitHub video. 00:05:59.134 --> 00:06:00.554 Here we go. Here we go. 00:06:00.554 --> 00:06:03.774 It is true. He is humble and probably for the right reasons, 00:06:03.854 --> 00:06:06.634 right? Because really, while he did give birth to it. 00:06:06.754 --> 00:06:07.974 Fedora 42 and Ubuntu 25. 00:06:07.974 --> 00:06:10.814 He's pretty smart and quick to hand it off and he wanted to go back to Chrome. 00:06:10.814 --> 00:06:14.494 It's pretty fun. I think there's admittedly just a lot of excitement around 00:06:14.494 --> 00:06:17.294 Fedora because it's the 42 release. 00:06:19.734 --> 00:06:25.494 It's also Matthew Miller's final release, which was nice to see him write up 00:06:25.494 --> 00:06:26.874 a little thing in the Fedora magazine. 00:06:27.494 --> 00:06:30.574 and I think there's a lot to like in here. We'll get to some of this, 00:06:30.614 --> 00:06:34.734 but just at a high level, I think the first thing we want to talk about is Fedora 00:06:34.734 --> 00:06:38.774 Workstation gets the new installer, that new Anaconda Web UI installer. 00:06:40.554 --> 00:06:41.974 I don't even know if you'd know it's a Web UI. 00:06:45.014 --> 00:06:48.514 Yeah, and maybe try to access it remotely, but it starts up in a window like 00:06:48.514 --> 00:06:51.574 every other installer, and it very much just looks kind of like an application. 00:06:52.294 --> 00:06:57.834 Works well. I would say it is, you know, it's interesting installing Ubuntu 00:06:57.834 --> 00:07:03.374 and Fedora back to back because they're both using refreshed installers and 00:07:03.374 --> 00:07:05.654 they're both very much taking a different path. 00:07:05.834 --> 00:07:09.094 I kind of have a preference for the moment at the new Fedora installer. 00:07:24.893 --> 00:07:29.593 Yeah, I guess I don't really have like a great explanation other than it felt 00:07:29.593 --> 00:07:33.813 like it was faster to get to the end goal with the Fedora installer. 00:07:33.993 --> 00:07:37.353 Brent, did you get that? Did you have that experience? Did you prefer one over the other? 00:07:37.553 --> 00:07:40.813 I kind of say I didn't, I wasn't going to choose favorites, but now that you're 00:07:40.813 --> 00:07:42.693 making me choose, I'm going to agree with you. 00:07:42.893 --> 00:07:48.433 It was super kind of streamlined, which was the opposite experience that I typically have with Fedora. 00:07:49.333 --> 00:07:53.873 that's um spoken hub approach took 00:07:53.873 --> 00:07:56.653 us several installs for me to get used to you get used to it of course like 00:07:56.653 --> 00:07:59.393 anything but uh this time around i just felt like yeah 00:07:59.393 --> 00:08:02.233 it was as far as a guided install goes 00:08:02.233 --> 00:08:05.073 i was quite guided and i i really enjoyed it i 00:08:05.073 --> 00:08:07.833 love the progress bar especially i thought it was just 00:08:07.833 --> 00:08:10.553 enough information and broken up just enough to 00:08:10.553 --> 00:08:13.913 be sort of a useful feedback without getting 00:08:13.913 --> 00:08:18.193 in the way but also my favorite thing was definitely the location chooser i 00:08:18.193 --> 00:08:23.013 might be the only person who cares about the time zone location chooser it is 00:08:23.013 --> 00:08:27.833 so much improved here compared to what we've seen for the last 10 years so huge 00:08:27.833 --> 00:08:31.273 kudos to the people that worked on the installer i'm a fan that. 00:08:31.273 --> 00:08:34.113 Is a nice perspective now that i've never really had 00:08:34.113 --> 00:08:36.893 too many complaints with the time zone selector other than i have to select 00:08:36.893 --> 00:08:39.493 la they also come with a new 00:08:39.493 --> 00:08:42.693 feature which i'll talk about in a minute which is quote 00:08:42.693 --> 00:08:45.893 reinstall fedora option if you already have fedora installed you 00:08:45.893 --> 00:08:50.793 see this after you already have a fedora 42 install if you reboot off of the 00:08:50.793 --> 00:08:55.613 installer iso another option in the installer shows up reinstall fedora and 00:08:55.613 --> 00:09:00.413 uh you know the idea is kind of like a chrome book refresh sort of do a reset 00:09:00.413 --> 00:09:04.173 on your system you broke it and not delete some of your user data which i tried 00:09:04.173 --> 00:09:05.253 and i'll report back on in a moment, 00:09:11.833 --> 00:09:13.793 right right but it's cool it's good, 00:09:17.733 --> 00:09:20.053 does seem like a good idea, especially if you keep iterating on it. 00:09:20.153 --> 00:09:23.153 The reason why that is even there is because of ButterFS. 00:09:23.713 --> 00:09:24.113 Oh, okay. 00:09:24.273 --> 00:09:26.993 The feature relies on the fact that when we install with ButterFS, 00:09:27.653 --> 00:09:30.673 your user data is separated out into a separate subvolume. 00:09:31.073 --> 00:09:36.233 So all Anaconda has to do is just blow away the operating system subvolume, 00:09:36.833 --> 00:09:39.033 reinstall it, and mount your home subvolume again. 00:09:39.233 --> 00:09:42.473 I mean, a decade apart, okay, but then in the two decades since then. 00:09:42.613 --> 00:09:43.353 It's very easy and very safe. 00:09:43.493 --> 00:09:46.893 The world of open source is so great. Absolutely exploded, partially powered 00:09:46.893 --> 00:09:49.113 by Git and, of course, by Linux in a different way. 00:09:49.593 --> 00:09:53.893 So we just have a—there are a lot more other—you can use other people's tools. 00:09:53.893 --> 00:09:57.453 We also got a Cosmic spin with this release, better SGX support. 00:09:57.533 --> 00:10:01.913 We see the new Linux DRM panic screen in this release. Yeah. 00:10:02.950 --> 00:10:04.650 KD Plasma 6.3. 00:10:04.650 --> 00:10:08.910 Lands, XFCE 4.2.0, and LXQ 2.1. 00:10:08.910 --> 00:10:09.790 In here as well. 00:10:09.850 --> 00:10:13.370 So these were versions of Emacs. So if you imagine back in the day. 00:10:13.650 --> 00:10:17.730 Emacs was fairly simple. All of the features really come from GNOME 48. 00:10:18.410 --> 00:10:20.990 It's quite a robust environment, right? Almost an operating system. 00:10:20.990 --> 00:10:25.270 A new JavaScript engine for GNOME. Better mock discrete graphics support for monitors. 00:10:25.270 --> 00:10:29.190 So yeah, he has a random version of Micro Emacs with some private modifications. 00:10:29.450 --> 00:10:31.310 The new digital well-being stuff is in GNOME 48. 00:10:31.690 --> 00:10:32.750 Yeah, it... 00:10:32.750 --> 00:10:34.210 Maybe the biggest one, though. 00:10:34.570 --> 00:10:35.070 It's basic. 00:10:35.310 --> 00:10:35.950 HDR support. 00:10:35.970 --> 00:10:36.290 I did. 00:10:36.390 --> 00:10:37.170 High dynamic range support. 00:10:37.170 --> 00:10:38.010 My mistake... 00:10:38.010 --> 00:10:38.330 It's a little early. 00:10:38.430 --> 00:10:40.630 I popped it open. It is packaged in X. 00:10:40.630 --> 00:10:43.910 I don't even know if it recognizes my monitor as HDR, but it let me do HDR. 00:10:44.070 --> 00:10:48.390 As I do often with Vim, I just wanted to open a buffer without necessarily saving 00:10:48.390 --> 00:10:50.150 it. I wasn't intending to keep it. I just wanted to try the other. 00:10:50.350 --> 00:10:51.670 Yeah, I mean, it's big. 00:10:51.710 --> 00:10:52.910 Give it a file name to save. 00:10:52.990 --> 00:10:53.290 And it's great. 00:10:53.590 --> 00:10:54.270 It's fantastic. 00:10:54.490 --> 00:10:57.870 It's something that the Mac could do that was tricky on Gano. 00:10:58.410 --> 00:11:01.530 They also have the preserved battery health setting that lets you, 00:11:01.670 --> 00:11:02.830 on systems that support it, set the max charge to 80%. 00:11:02.830 --> 00:11:05.530 Maybe because I hadn't totally cleared my buffer. Yeah, but the easiest way 00:11:05.530 --> 00:11:10.690 that I could figure out to quit was to save it to a file, and then I could save and quit. 00:11:11.090 --> 00:11:15.110 So I just wanted to do a temp file. All the stuff you get with GNOME 48, 00:11:15.110 --> 00:11:16.950 if you go with the workstation release. 00:11:17.050 --> 00:11:21.210 You also see the plasma version right alongside the workstation download. 00:11:21.390 --> 00:11:23.010 Non-modal editor. What a mind. 00:11:26.250 --> 00:11:30.350 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, Brent, which spin did you give a go of Fedora 42? 00:11:30.730 --> 00:11:34.570 Well, because you guys keep getting on me about not, you know, 00:11:34.690 --> 00:11:35.890 giving them enough of a try. 00:11:35.890 --> 00:11:38.530 I figured, hey, everybody's talking about how this is a great version. 00:11:38.670 --> 00:11:41.870 I would get this little going. Gosh darn it. 00:11:42.090 --> 00:11:45.150 You know, tells you about the data structure in the library that the thing you're 00:11:45.150 --> 00:11:47.590 looking at came from in all these modern environments. 00:11:47.850 --> 00:11:51.130 So, I'm really having some existential questions like that. 00:11:51.270 --> 00:11:53.130 Uh-oh. I mean, they are nice. Uh-oh. 00:11:53.630 --> 00:11:57.270 Am I going that far? I, yeah. 00:11:57.270 --> 00:11:58.710 It sounds like you liked it. 00:11:58.810 --> 00:12:03.390 I did like it. I don't know what this means for the future of Brent's desktop, 00:12:03.390 --> 00:12:06.550 but I think they're doing amazing things and starting to win me over. 00:12:06.730 --> 00:12:10.690 So maybe I'll try it again, like long-term. We'll see. 00:12:11.110 --> 00:12:12.570 Okay. I'm noting that one down. 00:12:12.930 --> 00:12:13.490 Please do. 00:12:15.930 --> 00:12:18.590 No, I thought you were going to try the plasma spin. I just assumed. 00:12:18.830 --> 00:12:23.830 Well, I thought I should try something new, given plasma's in my everyday, 00:12:23.830 --> 00:12:28.950 And they talk such a great game about the Plasma desktop in Fedora. 00:12:29.170 --> 00:12:32.490 Like, saying features for everyone, for creators, scientists, 00:12:32.630 --> 00:12:36.030 developers, gamers, and it's customizable. I think they did an amazing job at 00:12:36.030 --> 00:12:42.490 describing exactly what the Plasma desktop is and offers compared to Workstation. 00:12:43.310 --> 00:12:46.590 And I just thought, geez, they got this so figured out. I'm going to go try 00:12:46.590 --> 00:12:50.250 the other one because it seems like maybe Plasma's taken over. 00:12:50.430 --> 00:12:52.790 I don't know. That's a little bit of bacon. But... 00:12:53.878 --> 00:12:55.758 Yeah, so I thought I'd just try something a little new. 00:12:56.078 --> 00:12:59.958 Now, you also were going to try the Cosmic Spin, I believe. 00:13:00.518 --> 00:13:03.258 Yes, I was hoping you wouldn't bring that up. Yeah, you think we might be past that? 00:13:03.478 --> 00:13:05.818 Oh, well, that's what I'm the most excited to hear about. 00:13:06.078 --> 00:13:14.338 I know, I gave it a shot in a VM and ran into some major issues and never even got to that desktop. 00:13:14.438 --> 00:13:14.898 Unfortunately. 00:13:15.278 --> 00:13:17.958 I don't know if you boys tried it and got some more luck. 00:13:17.958 --> 00:13:23.538 But I ran into a Poison A, which is kind of fun. and I think I need to do a 00:13:23.538 --> 00:13:27.098 little bit more work to find out if it's just my particular VM setup or what 00:13:27.098 --> 00:13:28.218 and try it on some hardware. 00:13:28.398 --> 00:13:29.298 Maybe I'd have some better luck. 00:13:29.778 --> 00:13:32.878 And there are things, right? Like Fossil is a very interesting one. 00:13:33.138 --> 00:13:34.018 Did either of you do that show? 00:13:34.018 --> 00:13:36.698 You know, as it's based on like a theory of patches, there's several of these 00:13:36.698 --> 00:13:40.138 that are sort of, they are in many ways better than Git, maybe not all, 00:13:40.218 --> 00:13:42.498 and not even necessarily just in a porcelain sense. 00:13:42.498 --> 00:13:44.918 I should have had a Neil there holding my hand the whole time. 00:13:44.918 --> 00:13:45.858 That's what I did wrong. 00:13:46.318 --> 00:13:46.838 Thank you, Neil. 00:13:46.998 --> 00:13:47.398 That's great. 00:13:47.818 --> 00:13:51.998 Yeah, I discovered this while I was developing it. So like, well, 00:13:52.118 --> 00:13:54.678 I wasn't solely developing, but like when I was putting it together, 00:13:55.038 --> 00:13:59.838 along with Ryan Brew and the other folks in Fedora Cosmic, I discovered fairly 00:13:59.838 --> 00:14:04.118 quickly that you basically can't run it without hardware accelerated graphics being enabled. 00:14:04.358 --> 00:14:04.438 Yeah. 00:14:04.598 --> 00:14:09.258 And since no virtual machine platform turns it on by default, it will just crash. 00:14:09.558 --> 00:14:13.158 So you need to turn it on and then try again and it will work. 00:14:13.278 --> 00:14:14.418 Stay tuned for next episode. 00:14:14.418 --> 00:14:19.578 So for me i'm gonna give the cosmic spin a try but i'm waiting i'm just gonna 00:14:19.578 --> 00:14:24.178 wait for a few weeks after the release uh did you have any other right we're 00:14:24.178 --> 00:14:26.578 past that it exists now so i have to it has to be. 00:14:26.578 --> 00:14:27.218 An evolution no. 00:14:27.218 --> 00:14:30.318 I really didn't which uh is unusual. 00:14:30.318 --> 00:14:31.298 I do think it's funny, 00:14:33.438 --> 00:14:39.678 because if you go check it out there's uh now been 175 different contributors 00:14:39.678 --> 00:14:41.998 to the project and over 20,000 commits. 00:14:42.278 --> 00:14:44.538 So even on its own, it's a pretty decent project. 00:14:53.738 --> 00:14:56.118 I agree. I saw Tyler in our live chat too saying that, you know, 00:14:56.178 --> 00:14:58.518 it's the one I'm going to give a go. I'm going to come back to it. 00:14:58.898 --> 00:15:01.678 I'll jump ahead and tell you why I didn't give Cosmic a spin. 00:15:01.958 --> 00:15:09.758 And this is, it's fine. It's fine. But I am, my laptop these days is an M1 MacBook Pro. 00:15:10.298 --> 00:15:17.118 and I run Asahi Fedora on there. So for me, both of these releases have really 00:15:17.118 --> 00:15:23.998 come very far in their ARM support, especially in 42 and in 2504. 00:15:24.138 --> 00:15:25.598 It's delightfully improved. 00:15:25.758 --> 00:15:29.258 And so this was a really special time to actually be testing these distributions, 00:15:30.799 --> 00:15:36.539 on ARM hardware. And I went with Workstation because I was running it in virtualization 00:15:36.539 --> 00:15:38.419 and I just wanted to make sure I knew that worked. 00:15:38.499 --> 00:15:43.699 And I was so impressed with how well it worked in virtualization. 00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:45.859 I got myself a debbing container running. 00:15:45.859 --> 00:15:46.679 I know you noticed this too, Wes. 00:15:46.699 --> 00:15:49.719 And then grabbed myself the code for the apt 3.0 release. 00:15:50.319 --> 00:15:54.459 Managed to get it compiled. And then I did the thing where I installed all the 00:15:54.459 --> 00:15:58.659 generated deb files and overrope a package manager in place with the new version. 00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:03.059 And it kept working. It really feels like a first-class Linux experience on the M100. 00:16:03.259 --> 00:16:04.659 No, it's nice, right? Like, I didn't actually... 00:16:04.659 --> 00:16:06.299 So I was kind of limited in what I could test. 00:16:06.319 --> 00:16:11.659 But what I did test with 442 was some of the solver stuff, but that's really good to see. 00:16:11.779 --> 00:16:18.059 Getting these distributions to release a generic ISO image for ARM platforms is massive. 00:16:18.059 --> 00:16:22.739 They integrated smarter sort of graph-solving problems in algorithms earlier. 00:16:22.859 --> 00:16:23.779 So that's great. 00:16:23.939 --> 00:16:25.359 I did try the auto-remove after 00:16:25.359 --> 00:16:28.539 installing a whole bunch of build dependencies for ARM and ARM images. 00:16:28.539 --> 00:16:31.459 That we then expand onto our disk and boot. 00:16:32.079 --> 00:16:33.859 Not only is apps just generally faster. 00:16:33.859 --> 00:16:37.359 You can get ARM laptops, you can get MacBooks, you can get water stations. 00:16:37.499 --> 00:16:37.999 Very snappy. 00:16:38.139 --> 00:16:43.199 Even the Pi 400 can boot iso-based. And if you have a generic ARM image like 00:16:43.199 --> 00:16:46.859 Seuss has had for a while, all these systems, as they add more support, 00:16:46.939 --> 00:16:50.279 they just work like any other standard x86 PC. 00:16:50.479 --> 00:16:50.939 Oh, immediately. 00:16:51.339 --> 00:16:54.479 And it's a terrific experience to be able to just put it in a thumb drive and 00:16:54.479 --> 00:16:58.099 boot an ARM box like it's a standard PC. 00:16:58.099 --> 00:16:59.039 And you know how apt it is? 00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:00.019 And now we're here with both Adora 42 and Ubuntu. 00:17:00.019 --> 00:17:02.399 It's just not very structured. It's more like reading the text log, 00:17:02.539 --> 00:17:04.399 which is fine if you're a sysadmin, you're used to it. 00:17:04.819 --> 00:17:10.139 The new stuff is structured, right? It's got text layout and formatting and color highlights. 00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:14.139 So when you're removing packages, all of the packages you're removing are in red. 00:17:14.259 --> 00:17:18.659 And they're on their own line. And it kind of works as you might expect. 00:17:19.179 --> 00:17:20.039 So I set up my test system. 00:17:20.119 --> 00:17:21.179 And it's tabbed out so it's indented. 00:17:21.379 --> 00:17:24.199 And I changed my user wallpaper. I tweaked some of my desktop settings. 00:17:24.199 --> 00:17:27.199 Based on the structure of the text in a way you just did not in the past version. 00:17:27.199 --> 00:17:31.779 I installed three or four flat packs and I installed three or four RPMs from the repo. 00:17:32.239 --> 00:17:34.839 And then, you know, went about using the system for a bit. 00:17:35.643 --> 00:17:39.643 And decided, let's see what sticks, what stays. 00:17:40.263 --> 00:17:43.943 Rebooted off of the ISO, went into the installer again. Sure enough, 00:17:44.103 --> 00:17:48.223 the new reinstall Fedora option showed up. So I click that. It's pretty straightforward. 00:17:48.443 --> 00:17:50.943 It doesn't ask a lot of questions. Yeah, I think we did see stuff added to make 00:17:50.943 --> 00:17:53.443 it so it would stop you from doing that more often. 00:17:53.643 --> 00:17:55.883 But even then, it didn't necessarily explain it a ton. 00:17:55.883 --> 00:17:57.143 So that has been improved with 3. 00:17:57.383 --> 00:17:58.283 So it remains. 00:17:58.583 --> 00:17:59.963 It continues to stop you. I tried removing that. 00:17:59.963 --> 00:18:02.803 It almost still in dark mode, my custom background, the icons I changed. 00:18:02.803 --> 00:18:03.183 You can't do that. 00:18:03.263 --> 00:18:03.643 Those were all still there. 00:18:03.643 --> 00:18:07.963 But it was very clear about why. and big bold red letters that are like, 00:18:07.983 --> 00:18:09.743 you just tried to do something real dumb, user. 00:18:09.963 --> 00:18:10.503 Don't do that. 00:18:10.903 --> 00:18:15.163 Also kind of interesting, I was testing out I now have an option to add a comment 00:18:15.603 --> 00:18:17.723 when you're installing a package. And I don't know. 00:18:17.783 --> 00:18:20.103 Maybe they'll pull it up. For an end user with isolated applications, 00:18:20.423 --> 00:18:23.423 that would truly be the experience is refresh the operating system. 00:18:23.443 --> 00:18:26.643 You come back and all of the applications you can install with a flat pack are 00:18:26.643 --> 00:18:28.703 still there. You can do so with a comment and then later. 00:18:29.283 --> 00:18:31.863 Maybe that's a better way to go figure out why do I have this package? 00:18:33.003 --> 00:18:38.403 Right. So the way that it works is it, by default, Fedora installs with ButterFS. 00:18:38.523 --> 00:18:44.243 It's not quite other declarative systems, but it's definitely a useful tool to have in your toolkit. 00:18:44.243 --> 00:18:48.423 So with that in mind, when Anaconda detects that you have a Fedora install on 00:18:48.423 --> 00:18:53.483 ButterFS and you're going through the install process, it can offer to reinstall. 00:18:53.643 --> 00:18:58.183 And the way that it does it is it just simply erases only the sub-volumes that 00:18:58.183 --> 00:19:01.563 contain system data while retaining the sub-volumes that contain user data. 00:19:02.143 --> 00:19:05.843 So all you do is, say, reinstall Fedora, put in your things, 00:19:05.923 --> 00:19:10.803 and then it will just erase the root subvolume, which is what we call it, 00:19:10.943 --> 00:19:15.923 and then recreate it and then mount the home subvolume and attach the user and 00:19:15.923 --> 00:19:16.903 all that other fun stuff. 00:19:17.103 --> 00:19:21.923 So then you wind up having a very simple path to bring it all back. 00:19:22.023 --> 00:19:25.323 And this is why, for example, applications don't come with it because applications 00:19:25.323 --> 00:19:28.903 are installed on the system and not on the user area. 00:19:29.263 --> 00:19:31.163 So there you go. 00:19:31.163 --> 00:19:35.103 Yeah. Thank you. So that I thought was a pretty neat feature overall. 00:19:35.103 --> 00:19:39.863 I could see expanding it down the road and absolutely thumbs up on the arm support. 00:19:39.983 --> 00:19:41.643 Wes, what was your experience with Fedora 42 like? 00:19:49.163 --> 00:19:50.243 Oh, very good. Okay. 00:19:59.823 --> 00:20:18.223 Yes, yes. And, uh, you 00:20:18.223 --> 00:20:20.603 probably don't care about, but it's nice to see. 00:20:20.803 --> 00:20:23.883 I mean, I'm glad they, you know, got that, even though they're kind of phasing 00:20:23.883 --> 00:20:24.683 it out. That's great to see. 00:20:43.919 --> 00:20:45.939 Smooth, yeah. Agreed. 00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:55.359 A classic. Always a classic. It's nice that we have a hybrid. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:10.299 Hmm, okay. All right. 00:21:15.939 --> 00:21:19.139 that's pretty neat yeah, 00:21:25.119 --> 00:21:27.019 Red Hat is so serious about Bootsy it's great, 00:21:30.719 --> 00:21:33.739 yeah yeah yeah it 00:21:33.739 --> 00:21:36.639 would you know in a future where we had like a spare 00:21:36.639 --> 00:21:40.019 B link or something it almost be worth putting a Windows install on there to 00:21:40.019 --> 00:21:54.899 try out stuff in WSL almost plus we could try to a what, 00:22:01.478 --> 00:22:05.118 Now, you had a note in here about the live environment doing something kind of fun. 00:22:05.458 --> 00:22:11.938 Yeah, I put a note saying just about a little warning that I found on the release 00:22:11.938 --> 00:22:14.118 page here. I'll read it for you because it's kind of fun. 00:22:14.438 --> 00:22:15.638 Yeah, it seems like a good one. 00:22:15.938 --> 00:22:18.118 Yeah, Matt Miller wrote this one. You know, it's a good one. 00:22:18.658 --> 00:22:21.078 No, it's not the Vogons, but it is ugly. 00:22:21.098 --> 00:22:24.978 We discovered a problem with the live boot media at the last minute, 00:22:24.978 --> 00:22:28.758 and since the release was already out of the airlock, we can't do much about 00:22:28.758 --> 00:22:31.618 it. It doesn't damage anything, but it is annoying. 00:22:31.898 --> 00:22:37.578 Just booting the live media adds an unexpected entry to the UEFI bootloader, 00:22:37.658 --> 00:22:41.718 even when Fedora Linux 42 is not installed to the local system. 00:22:42.198 --> 00:22:44.818 Okay. That is a good little PSA. Fun fact. 00:22:44.878 --> 00:22:45.138 You were. 00:22:45.438 --> 00:22:50.618 Thank you. Now, we have a question. Neil wants you all to report in on your 00:22:50.618 --> 00:22:54.978 experience with the LX-Cute version, the Cosmic version, and the Plasma version. 00:22:54.978 --> 00:22:58.718 But specifically, probably out of all of those, we'd like people to try out 00:22:58.718 --> 00:23:00.258 the LXQ version report. And yeah, Neil? 00:23:00.998 --> 00:23:07.398 Yeah, for sure. Because this version is special. Fedora LXQ is the first, 00:23:07.418 --> 00:23:10.518 as far as I know, again, I haven't looked super extensively, 00:23:10.678 --> 00:23:11.598 but I checked all the majors. 00:23:12.198 --> 00:23:17.078 Fedora LXQ is the first LXQ deliverable distribution, whatever, 00:23:17.378 --> 00:23:20.338 that ships LXQ with Wayland by default. 00:23:21.678 --> 00:23:22.778 That is really neat. 00:23:22.778 --> 00:23:25.918 And we're using the mirror mirror 00:23:25.918 --> 00:23:30.978 way compositor to do it you you know from the mirror project right so so this 00:23:30.978 --> 00:23:36.718 is a very exciting and interesting release and i would love to see people check 00:23:36.718 --> 00:23:40.898 it out try it out and give you know feedback to the mirror way project as well 00:23:40.898 --> 00:23:43.858 as you know just talk about what it how it feels and looks for them. 00:23:43.858 --> 00:23:47.798 Yeah i'd love to people are willing out there just a little uh you know contribution 00:23:47.798 --> 00:23:50.618 to the show give it a spin and report back in send us to boost how it went. 00:23:50.838 --> 00:23:55.298 Also, I'd love personally to hear how people's experience with the Cosmic spin goes. 00:23:55.778 --> 00:23:59.298 I'd like to cast a wide net on that. So please do let us know. 00:24:02.438 --> 00:24:08.218 1password.com slash unplugged. That's the number one, password.com and then lowercase unplugged. 00:24:08.318 --> 00:24:12.918 Now imagine your company's security a bit like the quad of a college campus. 00:24:13.118 --> 00:24:17.258 They have the nice brick pass that the designers thought about, put in. 00:24:17.738 --> 00:24:21.298 Those go between the buildings. They look really great. You could think of those 00:24:21.298 --> 00:24:24.338 as your company-owned devices, your IT-approved apps, you know, 00:24:24.638 --> 00:24:26.558 managed employee identities, everything's known. 00:24:26.998 --> 00:24:30.318 Then you have what's called the preferred path, I've been told recently. 00:24:30.718 --> 00:24:34.778 That's the shortcuts you'll see worn into the grass, the actual straightest 00:24:34.778 --> 00:24:39.218 line from point A to point B that people end up taking just to get the job done. 00:24:40.196 --> 00:24:44.476 You can think of that as unmanaged devices, shadow IT apps, and non-employee identities. 00:24:44.976 --> 00:24:49.236 Like contractors, I've been on both sides of that. And the reality is most security 00:24:49.236 --> 00:24:53.096 tools only work on the happy brick path, the designed path. 00:24:53.416 --> 00:24:57.556 But we all know a lot of security problems take place on the shortcuts. 00:24:58.436 --> 00:25:01.876 That's where 1Password Extended Access Management comes in. 00:25:02.456 --> 00:25:06.436 It's the first security solution that brings all these unmanaged devices, 00:25:06.736 --> 00:25:10.736 these apps and identities under your control. It ensures that every user credential 00:25:10.736 --> 00:25:13.836 is strong and protected. Every device is known and healthy. 00:25:14.196 --> 00:25:17.256 And every app is visible. That's huge. 00:25:17.716 --> 00:25:21.456 1Password Extended Access Management is solving the problems that traditional 00:25:21.456 --> 00:25:24.396 IAMs and MDMs just weren't built to touch. 00:25:24.396 --> 00:25:28.076 It does seem like if you're trying to do the same thing, but you don't have the same setup. 00:25:28.076 --> 00:25:29.556 And it's available for companies with Okta. 00:25:29.676 --> 00:25:32.036 Microsoft, Entra, and Data for the workspace. 00:25:32.976 --> 00:25:36.836 You know 1Password changed the game with general password hygiene. 00:25:36.836 --> 00:25:42.116 Now they're bringing that all the way around. Now it's extended access to management by OnePass. 00:25:43.196 --> 00:25:47.576 I couldn't imagine life without OnePassword, and I couldn't imagine trying to 00:25:47.576 --> 00:25:48.816 manage all these devices. 00:25:49.056 --> 00:25:50.396 Apps, and identities. 00:25:50.396 --> 00:25:54.756 In a world where so many services and online web apps and identities are just 00:25:54.756 --> 00:25:56.776 sort of crammed down people's throat to get the job done. 00:25:56.956 --> 00:26:01.816 You need something that secures every app, every device, and every identity. 00:26:01.996 --> 00:26:04.136 Even the unmanaged ones. 00:26:04.376 --> 00:26:07.236 That's where OnePassword comes in. Check it out, support the show, 00:26:07.376 --> 00:26:10.976 see what they have to say at 1password.com slash unplugged. 00:26:11.236 --> 00:26:15.796 That's all lowercase. So you go to 1password.com slash unplugged. 00:26:19.087 --> 00:26:22.667 Well, this week, we also saw the plucky puffin come to life. 00:26:22.867 --> 00:26:28.707 Ubuntu 2504 came shipped for us with all of the GNOME 48 stuff, 00:26:29.107 --> 00:26:32.747 like the HDR support, new well-being controls, and group notifications, 00:26:33.327 --> 00:26:36.267 including Linux kernel 614. 00:26:36.787 --> 00:26:39.547 Yeah. And Mesa 25.0. 00:26:39.827 --> 00:26:42.907 Ooh, yeah. That's going to be, you know, all of this stuff really stacked together 00:26:42.907 --> 00:26:47.007 for both these releases. Oh, it's great for gamers. It's great for gamers. 00:26:47.687 --> 00:26:51.427 It's nice to see this stuff get in here. It's so great. And also both of them 00:26:51.427 --> 00:26:53.247 have focused on better dual boot support. 00:26:54.327 --> 00:26:57.987 There's the replace Ubuntu option and more in the OS installer. 00:27:01.467 --> 00:27:06.587 Yeah, yeah, that's neat too. So let's take a moment though and talk about the 00:27:06.587 --> 00:27:11.507 ARM64 unified ISO for this release because this is truly what's got me excited. 00:27:11.927 --> 00:27:16.607 And I think Canonical worked with Qualcomm? 00:27:17.287 --> 00:27:20.107 I think, to do some of the QA testing on this. I think I read that. 00:27:21.207 --> 00:27:25.187 And they've really, and I don't know. I know they also focused on Snapdragon. 00:27:25.627 --> 00:27:29.607 Sorry, I think that's Qualcomm, right? They focused on the Snapdragon X Elite, 00:27:29.707 --> 00:27:32.327 which some of these Windows PCs are shipping. So if you get one of these ARM 00:27:32.327 --> 00:27:36.047 PCs, they're targeting that. Probably just work. Yeah, they're targeting that. 00:27:36.747 --> 00:27:41.747 So those are ones that are often marketed as like co-pilot AI plus PCs or something. 00:27:42.047 --> 00:27:45.427 So they're really aiming for a smoother experience. And as a result, 00:27:45.607 --> 00:27:47.747 the rest of us ARM users are benefiting too so hey. 00:27:51.647 --> 00:27:52.567 This is true. 00:27:52.567 --> 00:27:59.187 Yeah yeah yeah definitely they also made a little switch it's not a big deal 00:27:59.187 --> 00:28:04.687 but the default document viewer switches from evans to papers uh which doesn't 00:28:04.687 --> 00:28:06.507 have everything but still a perfectly fine app. 00:28:14.269 --> 00:28:16.669 Are we going to celebrate on the show? No, we're just going to get it away. 00:28:22.309 --> 00:28:26.749 2504 is also using something new for location services. 00:28:26.929 --> 00:28:29.609 And this isn't really something you hear distributions talk a lot about, 00:28:29.709 --> 00:28:34.349 but they're now using BeaconDB to handle things like your automatic nightlight 00:28:34.349 --> 00:28:38.809 or time zone detection and weather-related features. If you enable location 00:28:38.809 --> 00:28:41.589 services, it's now using BeaconDB. Yeah, what was it before? 00:28:42.729 --> 00:28:46.709 I believe it was. Yeah, exactly. And now they switched to BeaconDB, 00:28:46.869 --> 00:28:51.389 which BeaconDB.net, a public domain wireless geolocation database. 00:28:51.489 --> 00:28:54.469 I'm not necessarily known for being the most accurate, I think, 00:28:54.649 --> 00:28:56.609 is what I've read, but still pretty good for it. 00:28:57.769 --> 00:29:02.509 I mean, you're really looking for like general time zone, sunrise, sunset, right? 00:29:02.829 --> 00:29:06.249 It's probably good enough for that. Um, yeah. And there are, 00:29:06.349 --> 00:29:09.569 there are, um, plenty of ways to contribute to it and plenty of ways they, 00:29:09.749 --> 00:29:14.569 they, uh, accept, uh, contributions either in a code or in location data. 00:29:14.749 --> 00:29:17.789 So they have a map too, that has all the hotspots that they have. 00:29:18.889 --> 00:29:23.629 And there's, there's this one that's just, uh, obviously a flight it's over 00:29:23.629 --> 00:29:24.729 the Antarctic or whatever. 00:29:24.849 --> 00:29:27.929 It's just, they got location, people reporting location while they're live on 00:29:27.929 --> 00:29:30.729 flights using beacon DB. I mean, it's really all over the place. 00:29:31.769 --> 00:29:34.749 So I suppose it's going to work just fine for this. I just thought it's kind 00:29:34.749 --> 00:29:37.009 of noteworthy that they even kind of mentioned it. I don't know. 00:29:51.869 --> 00:29:55.089 I was kind of negative about the installer in the Fedora section, 00:29:55.209 --> 00:29:57.429 but now that we're in the Ubuntu section, I did want to mention. 00:29:57.629 --> 00:30:03.129 Do we have to talk about which user? I don't know if anything's changed for 00:30:03.129 --> 00:30:06.069 the power users on the Mac platform. 00:30:06.409 --> 00:30:11.049 Not that it hasn't gone worse. I don't know that Linux has significantly involved in all those things. 00:30:11.489 --> 00:30:15.209 But for folks that do not necessarily have concrete expectations. 00:30:15.429 --> 00:30:16.369 That is not the case with the S.G. 00:30:16.369 --> 00:30:19.789 I'm used to this exact version of the app doing it this exact way. 00:30:19.989 --> 00:30:23.889 I wouldn't know. It is smooth in the way that a native app is smooth. 00:30:25.389 --> 00:30:29.509 No, I know. I know. You create something that's a cross-platform. 00:30:29.929 --> 00:30:33.229 thing and I just in my brain I just associate it's going to work like electron 00:30:33.229 --> 00:30:35.789 because that's what we've had to suffer with for so long. 00:30:36.749 --> 00:30:39.329 That's just from your jaded experience over the years Chris. 00:30:39.329 --> 00:30:40.449 Things are getting. 00:30:40.449 --> 00:30:41.709 Better welcome to the modern world. 00:30:41.709 --> 00:30:44.009 I can kind of see why they like it, 00:30:58.978 --> 00:31:02.698 I know, Brent, you kicked the tires on your install with encryption and some 00:31:02.698 --> 00:31:04.098 of the disk partitioning stuff. How'd that go? 00:31:04.278 --> 00:31:08.698 Yeah, you know me. That's a good tell for various distros and whether that goes well or not. 00:31:08.738 --> 00:31:13.878 And I have to say, I think I'm officially going to crown this the very best 00:31:13.878 --> 00:31:16.938 encryption install experience across the board. 00:31:18.118 --> 00:31:19.578 Ah, dang. All right. 00:31:19.898 --> 00:31:23.918 When you enable that little checkmark for encryption, you get all sorts of options. 00:31:24.058 --> 00:31:28.718 You get, of course, like Lux encryption, but ZFS, which has a little experimental tag. 00:31:28.718 --> 00:31:33.438 but it's there just like everybody else uh so zfs with and without encryption 00:31:33.438 --> 00:31:37.998 but also the new hardware backed encryption as well that uses the tpi so lots 00:31:37.998 --> 00:31:42.658 of options there and uh i'm a big fan of having many many encryption options. 00:31:51.018 --> 00:31:54.618 I didn't actually get it i think my whole macbook's a tpm to tell you the truth, 00:31:55.278 --> 00:31:56.978 that's what it feels like I'm. 00:31:56.978 --> 00:32:03.818 Dying for an X86 laptop again I am dying boys I think if you're willing or enjoying, 00:32:04.478 --> 00:32:07.958 have you checked the couch cushion there might be one slipped in there maybe. 00:32:07.958 --> 00:32:09.258 I'll do a little couch diving, 00:32:10.378 --> 00:32:15.158 it's great to see the ZFS options in there still maybe the one place this doesn't 00:32:15.158 --> 00:32:19.098 necessarily still fit is for folks who are busy enough with enough concerns 00:32:19.098 --> 00:32:24.658 that they need things that have those parts taken care of in a thoughtful and 00:32:24.658 --> 00:32:25.798 flexible professional way. 00:32:25.898 --> 00:32:26.418 Oh, right, right, right. 00:32:26.478 --> 00:32:28.858 But you're right. Outside of that, on the modern Linux desktop, 00:32:28.958 --> 00:32:30.638 we have a lot of the tools. 00:32:30.918 --> 00:32:34.138 Maybe they're not always assembled exactly like what you need. 00:32:34.158 --> 00:32:36.018 But the primitives are there. 00:32:44.658 --> 00:32:45.058 Yeah. 00:32:46.898 --> 00:32:49.218 I noticed that too on my slow connections. 00:32:49.598 --> 00:32:50.458 Yeah, I bet you did. 00:33:03.762 --> 00:33:05.022 I agree. Yeah, I agree. 00:33:08.602 --> 00:33:12.682 Well, you know, part of that is because Fedora does a little trick where they 00:33:12.682 --> 00:33:16.222 finish some of the setup after the reboot, where you create the user account 00:33:16.222 --> 00:33:19.982 and all that kind of stuff, where Ubuntu does that up front. 00:33:20.402 --> 00:33:24.702 And so I think it creates for a longer experience. 00:33:25.542 --> 00:33:29.302 And to me, it felt like I was having to do more. But when I thought about it, 00:33:29.362 --> 00:33:31.682 it's like, well, no, I still have to do that stuff. I just do it after installation. 00:33:41.202 --> 00:33:42.262 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:34:08.622 --> 00:34:09.622 Oh yeah, 00:34:22.042 --> 00:34:26.542 you keep trying i saw you with the cottonwood, 00:34:37.912 --> 00:34:39.192 We're going back to FreeBSD. 00:34:40.392 --> 00:34:46.692 True, yeah. Its own individual identity and website, right. 00:34:46.872 --> 00:34:48.852 Hey, it's not technically a year. 00:34:48.852 --> 00:34:51.432 It does make the Fedora system seem like a tighter ecosystem. 00:34:51.432 --> 00:34:52.132 I'm going to tell you something. 00:35:02.992 --> 00:35:04.112 Not bad, not bad. 00:35:05.032 --> 00:35:06.752 Yes, yes, I was mentioning that. 00:35:08.892 --> 00:35:13.372 Yeah, we're going from ZFS 2 to 4 Yeah. 00:35:13.452 --> 00:35:19.632 A new addition in AppArmor is a new profile for BubbleRap called BRAP Users 00:35:19.632 --> 00:35:24.332 Restrict, and the profile allows the creation of user namespaces and initial sandbox. 00:35:25.152 --> 00:35:29.352 And then it switches to a stricter enforcement mode, limiting what processes 00:35:29.352 --> 00:35:32.692 can do inside that sandbox. We are not so lucky. 00:35:32.912 --> 00:35:35.992 Not necessarily a flashy thing, but could be a nice security improvement. 00:35:36.672 --> 00:35:42.612 But like Wes said, when these things get turned up, just be aware. There's logs. 00:35:42.852 --> 00:35:49.792 Check your logs. I did get some compiling going for ZFS already to try to help us out here. 00:35:52.992 --> 00:35:57.532 Yeah. You bring it all together with either the latest Plasma or the latest GNOME. 00:35:57.792 --> 00:36:01.852 Of course, the other distros as well. But App 3.0, Linux 6.14, 00:36:02.112 --> 00:36:05.112 the new Mesa. and I've been seeing 00:36:05.112 --> 00:36:10.272 multiple reports of NVIDIA-Wayland combinations successfully working. 00:36:11.372 --> 00:36:16.532 Proprietary NVIDIA driver, accelerated graphics on Wayland, and it's working. 00:36:16.792 --> 00:36:19.032 I mean, can we just take a moment here? 00:36:20.912 --> 00:36:27.732 That's really good to see. I mean, I have to just circle back for a second. 00:36:27.872 --> 00:36:31.612 The milestone level here, I'm not saying mission accomplished yet. 00:36:33.641 --> 00:36:38.461 But we have lived through eras where Linux did not support entire categories 00:36:38.461 --> 00:36:42.081 of hardware, and they were fundamental blockers for users to switch. 00:36:42.201 --> 00:36:45.081 I mean, the classic example was Wi-Fi for forever. 00:36:45.601 --> 00:36:50.781 And then we really solved Wi-Fi in a big way, thanks to contributions from Intel and others. 00:36:50.881 --> 00:36:53.201 Geek boosts in with 45,000 sacks. 00:36:53.221 --> 00:36:58.281 I think since then, the biggest kind of fundamental blocker to Wayland and user 00:36:58.281 --> 00:37:02.761 adoption and things breaking during updates has been the NVIDIA driver. 00:37:02.761 --> 00:37:08.881 And people buy these increasingly more expensive GPUs without issues for the next time you do a game. 00:37:08.881 --> 00:37:11.041 They don't work on Linux. They're going to go somewhere where it does work, 00:37:11.141 --> 00:37:14.461 and that's Windows. And to nail this now. 00:37:14.721 --> 00:37:16.241 To be able to start fresh. 00:37:16.261 --> 00:37:21.881 And just install a distro with all of the modern desktop stuff in Wayland, and have it work. 00:37:21.881 --> 00:37:23.661 There's some minor window issues in the menus. 00:37:23.821 --> 00:37:31.541 It is turning the corner on one of the most arduous, crappy chapters in desktop Linux history. 00:37:32.261 --> 00:37:36.041 And I know it only works with certain hardware, newer hardware and all of that. 00:37:36.641 --> 00:37:39.981 But as we go forward from this point, it's only going to get better. 00:37:41.181 --> 00:37:48.061 And we'll look back. It was early 2025 when this stuff actually started shipping to end users. 00:37:48.141 --> 00:37:53.121 And we've been talking about the developments now for two years that got us here. 00:37:54.081 --> 00:37:57.041 And here we are, and it's actually shipping to end users. And that's why the 00:37:57.041 --> 00:37:58.001 kernel stuff really matters. 00:37:58.861 --> 00:38:03.381 It sometimes takes a while to actually reach end users, but it's huge and a major milestone, 00:38:07.521 --> 00:38:11.061 yeah yep yeah 00:38:11.501 --> 00:38:15.341 we're really in a good spot and then you imagine what happens if we I don't 00:38:15.341 --> 00:38:18.281 know which I don't know which door release rel is going to be based off of but 00:38:18.281 --> 00:38:20.841 it's going to be moving forward from here you know this is setting up for an 00:38:20.841 --> 00:38:22.621 LTS it's going to be a great Ubuntu LTS, 00:38:23.341 --> 00:38:27.161 they're both they're these longer term distros that will be built in the future 00:38:27.161 --> 00:38:28.181 maybe we're allowed an exception machine. 00:38:28.181 --> 00:38:30.261 But we have to time ourselves on how much we use it. 00:38:37.621 --> 00:38:41.821 Oh, I thought I had to wait till 10. Did you try it? You gave it a go. Of course. 00:38:45.721 --> 00:38:46.141 And? 00:38:49.781 --> 00:38:50.541 LS works. 00:38:51.241 --> 00:38:54.501 Derivation dingus boosts in with 22,000 sets. 00:38:55.701 --> 00:38:56.121 Better? 00:38:57.561 --> 00:39:03.621 Headphone boost. Yeah. As someone who's boosted in about thoroughly enjoying 00:39:03.621 --> 00:39:08.161 highly technical content, I also have to say I enjoyed the gaming content. 00:39:08.321 --> 00:39:08.821 I thought you'd say something. 00:39:09.001 --> 00:39:09.941 Maybe it's the ADD. 00:39:09.981 --> 00:39:12.961 But I personally think the wide variety is a feature. 00:39:13.281 --> 00:39:14.681 Keeps the show feeling fresh. 00:39:20.164 --> 00:39:25.444 ConfigCat.com slash unplugged. Yes, ConfigCat is sponsoring the Unplugged program. 00:39:25.724 --> 00:39:29.924 This is the feature flag service that helps you release features faster and 00:39:29.924 --> 00:39:32.804 with less risk. They have an unlimited seats program. 00:39:33.044 --> 00:39:36.044 Awesome support, and a very reasonable price tag. 00:39:36.444 --> 00:39:41.924 ConfigCat solves problems that make it easier to manage feature flags in your code. 00:39:42.044 --> 00:39:45.264 And they have open source SDKs for over 19 different platforms. 00:39:45.404 --> 00:39:50.004 JavaScript, Python, Ruby, Java, even Rust is in there. 00:39:50.164 --> 00:39:55.404 You can turn features on and off remotely without having to redeploy your code. Use feature flags. 00:39:55.684 --> 00:39:56.444 It's a very casual conference. 00:39:56.564 --> 00:40:01.264 So just kind of show up. A-B testing, canary releases, or even instant rollbacks, 00:40:01.524 --> 00:40:04.104 all from a beautiful dashboard. 00:40:04.224 --> 00:40:07.264 You got to go see that. It's a great way to support the show. Check it out. 00:40:07.704 --> 00:40:11.384 ConfigCat.com slash unplugged. It's built with data safety in mind. 00:40:11.424 --> 00:40:15.184 Your user data never leaves your system. You can try ConfigCat's forever free 00:40:15.184 --> 00:40:22.144 plan or get 25% off the paid plan when you use the code UNPLUGED25. All one word. 00:40:22.524 --> 00:40:27.124 My recommendation, put it in uppercase too. And we'd love it if you go there. Check out the site. 00:40:27.224 --> 00:40:31.084 Support the show by going to configcat.com slash unplugged. And when you're 00:40:31.084 --> 00:40:35.524 ready to try it out, take 25% off the paid plan with that UNPLUGED25. 00:40:35.784 --> 00:40:38.424 Put it all caps. Scream it at them. UNPLUGED25. 00:40:39.124 --> 00:40:42.624 Learn more at configcat.com slash unplugged. 00:40:43.084 --> 00:40:45.524 Uh, yeah, that could make an exception for you. 00:40:45.964 --> 00:40:48.144 We got a ton of feedback on our gaming episode. 00:40:48.484 --> 00:40:48.784 Thank you. 00:40:48.784 --> 00:40:53.724 I got some personal feedback. We got some feedback to the show and PJ just kept 00:40:53.724 --> 00:40:58.284 bugging me to make a JV gaming den room on Matrix. 00:40:58.524 --> 00:41:03.144 And so now we have one. PJ made some additional pylons and we made that happen. 00:41:03.744 --> 00:41:07.064 Thank you very much. And also, uh, get over there. 00:41:07.404 --> 00:41:10.804 If you want to organize maybe some community gaming nights. 00:41:11.024 --> 00:41:12.684 That's up to you guys. We're not involved. 00:41:15.084 --> 00:41:20.944 If you want to get in there, we have a link in the show notes. The JB Gaming Den. 00:41:21.244 --> 00:41:23.604 Yep, check it out on our self-hosted Matrix. 00:41:32.328 --> 00:41:37.128 And our baller booster comes from the handsome, the delightful, 00:41:37.488 --> 00:41:43.648 the wonderful Adversary 17 with 84,768 sats. 00:41:43.908 --> 00:41:47.148 Yeah, we had to remind you to, you know, sign off to do the show. 00:41:47.748 --> 00:41:50.768 Atversaries writes, I really liked the gaming episode. It was fun to hear y'all 00:41:50.768 --> 00:41:51.968 just kind of hanging out. 00:41:52.228 --> 00:41:57.148 And here's some sats for a headset boost. And he says, and I appreciate this. 00:41:57.208 --> 00:41:58.288 We play this in the member stream. 00:41:58.588 --> 00:42:01.248 The headset sample sounds good to my ears. and for what it's worth, 00:42:01.408 --> 00:42:05.828 I'm kind of picky about audio, having been an audio technician for years. How do we not know that? 00:42:06.688 --> 00:42:07.728 Yeah, I did sense it. 00:42:08.128 --> 00:42:11.348 Yeah, thank you adversaries, I try to change it up. 00:42:11.568 --> 00:42:15.428 So what, full disclosure, Gene Bean was helping me. 00:42:15.668 --> 00:42:16.388 And that was even with a bit of a head cold. 00:42:16.448 --> 00:42:20.708 It turned out that if you sent my node We'll be trying them out for Linux West and Northwest. 00:42:20.968 --> 00:42:21.808 Well, not trying them out. 00:42:22.248 --> 00:42:23.628 We're going all in. We'll look 00:42:23.628 --> 00:42:27.868 cool. Between 600 and 1,000 bytes or characters. I forget the specific. 00:42:28.048 --> 00:42:32.428 But basically, under that, fine. above that fine but in this right range there's 00:42:32.428 --> 00:42:36.608 a bug in the key send plugin that meant that the stats would not make it to 00:42:36.608 --> 00:42:41.328 me so to recreate that i just kept copying gene's message so that's really gene's 00:42:41.328 --> 00:42:44.888 message that i sent like 11 times oh boy. 00:42:44.888 --> 00:42:49.328 You know that was just open source recently i think if i got that right so i 00:42:49.328 --> 00:42:51.388 think we should jump jump jump into that yeah. 00:42:51.388 --> 00:42:54.008 All right all right i'm down i'm down. 00:42:54.008 --> 00:42:57.728 Well the tebby dog also said gene also so we'll have that later. 00:42:57.728 --> 00:43:00.568 On yeah i just sent so many that. 00:43:00.568 --> 00:43:03.968 I've been learning and configuring a new proposal software 00:43:03.968 --> 00:43:06.748 at work when i hit a snag during setup i wished 00:43:06.748 --> 00:43:11.308 for easier access to expert support as waiting for availability didn't always 00:43:11.308 --> 00:43:17.148 fit my timeline to solve this i set up an open web ui knowledge base with all 00:43:17.148 --> 00:43:20.928 the available documentation from the developers and now i can just ask an lm 00:43:20.928 --> 00:43:26.088 questions and it provides answers with citations from that documentation it's been working great. 00:43:27.690 --> 00:43:30.270 I mean, that is a great solution. I am kind of chuckling, though, 00:43:30.330 --> 00:43:35.410 that you had time to set up an LLM and open web UI and then somehow get at the 00:43:35.410 --> 00:43:36.830 documentation, which I don't even know how you do that. 00:43:37.250 --> 00:43:40.110 But you didn't have time to sit on support, which sounds like something I would do. 00:43:40.150 --> 00:43:44.770 I was taking public transit last week, and folks across from me on the train 00:43:44.770 --> 00:43:47.910 were talking about just, I don't know if it was exactly the R36, 00:43:48.170 --> 00:43:52.870 but they were legit talking about little handhold emulator devices because they wanted to get one. 00:43:53.730 --> 00:43:56.430 How did you feed it and train it on the docks? How are you doing that? 00:43:56.470 --> 00:43:57.810 How do we get access? too. 00:43:58.170 --> 00:44:01.710 Right. I want that. I'd love to be able to feed all our show notes. That would be so cool. 00:44:01.710 --> 00:44:03.030 Well, with Starcher F64, probably. 00:44:03.150 --> 00:44:07.770 Brons and Wings here with a row of ducks. Headphones and gaming. 00:44:07.990 --> 00:44:09.230 DD Spec comes in with 3,000. 00:44:09.230 --> 00:44:13.210 Cents. How about a row of ducks for that, I say. That's much appreciated. 00:44:13.430 --> 00:44:17.950 Thank you, Brons. Also, would love if you could get Mr. Dominic on a Jupyter 00:44:17.950 --> 00:44:20.770 pod, or Chris or Wes could go on New Coder. 00:44:21.170 --> 00:44:23.350 I love the small business owner's perspective on that. 00:44:23.490 --> 00:44:24.390 Alright, it's gonna happen. 00:44:34.510 --> 00:44:40.350 yeah, 00:44:43.270 --> 00:44:50.590 especially these days. 00:44:56.370 --> 00:45:01.090 I don't know so okay i noticed that acoustica boosted from the all shows which 00:45:01.090 --> 00:45:07.290 is cool via phone i think i maybe not do chapters not show up there because 00:45:07.290 --> 00:45:11.230 the show should have chapters would help in this particular case my kids maybe 00:45:11.230 --> 00:45:12.590 there's a technical reason they. 00:45:12.590 --> 00:45:17.850 Naturally just started using discover and um software depending on one of them's 00:45:17.850 --> 00:45:22.050 on plasm one of them's on you know, and they just install things via flat pack. 00:45:22.270 --> 00:45:24.150 I sat down with them. Like you had all these things. Oh yeah. 00:45:24.210 --> 00:45:26.410 Well, I wanted a new Minecraft and launcher. So I just searched. 00:45:39.301 --> 00:45:45.001 About t-mux uh i specifically remember when i forced myself to learn this and 00:45:45.001 --> 00:45:49.621 chris it's your fault a couple years ago you did a refresh of a system over 00:45:49.621 --> 00:45:55.101 ssh yeah well and uh your your main moral of the story was more gaming content 00:45:55.101 --> 00:45:57.901 he said the word also like odyssey i've. 00:45:57.901 --> 00:46:00.281 Lost i don't know 70-plus hours? 00:46:00.461 --> 00:46:02.981 Well, our dear Odyssey Wester came in with 10,000. 00:46:02.981 --> 00:46:07.201 Due to what seems like a sync bug between two PCs. Oh, my. 00:46:07.281 --> 00:46:11.561 While I love to hear more gaming stuff in general, I think just discussing your 00:46:11.561 --> 00:46:15.221 experience instead of listening to clips would be the best way to go forward for me. 00:46:15.461 --> 00:46:19.121 Just hearing you guys playing and not having visual context was the confusing part. 00:46:19.381 --> 00:46:20.501 Otherwise, you're better off 00:46:20.501 --> 00:46:24.641 just creating a gaming video instead as extra content for those curious. 00:46:24.961 --> 00:46:27.461 Either way, I will see you at LinuxFest Northwest. 00:46:28.041 --> 00:46:30.681 It's a tricky thing, right? That's why one of the reasons we went with StarDrop. 00:46:30.681 --> 00:46:31.381 Wonderful to hear from you. 00:46:31.541 --> 00:46:35.221 It's such a well-known. But, you know, then it was also suggested that maybe 00:46:35.221 --> 00:46:39.401 future gaming stuff we do in the launch or something, which we could totally do. 00:46:40.181 --> 00:46:43.701 So keep tuning in. You never know where we're going to go next. 00:46:44.621 --> 00:46:48.521 Rotted Mood comes in with 10,000 sets. No message, just the value. 00:46:48.701 --> 00:46:49.941 Thank you, Mood. Nice to hear from you. 00:46:53.641 --> 00:46:57.861 Yeah well every show can't be like that because if we do it again we're gonna lose to brent, 00:47:00.321 --> 00:47:05.861 uh-huh outdoor geek boosts in five thousand cents, 00:47:07.681 --> 00:47:11.201 oh but actually i think in this case brent should be boosting them because 00:47:11.201 --> 00:47:18.241 uh outdoor geek writes hey brent on my nyx os laptop the kde indexer would sometimes 00:47:18.241 --> 00:47:23.401 wake the laptop from sleep about a minute after the laptop was seeming to go 00:47:23.401 --> 00:47:28.841 to sleep this config turns off the indexer and then there's a link to a nyx config for you. 00:47:32.157 --> 00:47:36.157 Okay, you got to tell us more about that, Tomato. Please boost back and tell us more about that. 00:47:36.457 --> 00:47:40.857 So we'll give you all a heads up. I think we're also looking for tool suggestions. 00:47:41.297 --> 00:47:44.337 We're still kind of in the discovery phase, and then we'll lock in and give 00:47:44.337 --> 00:47:46.977 you a date so you can do it along with us. This is one of my favorite boosts 00:47:46.977 --> 00:47:49.157 of the week. This is a very well thought out boost. 00:47:49.857 --> 00:47:54.137 And it's something I've thought a lot about myself is all of the data around 00:47:54.137 --> 00:47:58.497 your source code that GitHub owns and is centralized around GitHub. 00:47:59.397 --> 00:48:02.537 And for a while, we were really trying to push and push and push on decentralized 00:48:02.537 --> 00:48:06.177 services, but we just didn't really, it just didn't really seem to be landing. 00:48:06.457 --> 00:48:08.437 But it's an issue that's always on my mind. 00:48:08.437 --> 00:48:08.997 That sounds slick. 00:48:09.117 --> 00:48:12.417 And there are ways to solve this today. There are technologies that could solve it. 00:48:12.837 --> 00:48:19.897 But I agree with you, it's going to take some kind of meltdown to create a mass exodus. 00:48:39.757 --> 00:48:47.337 i maintain that post microsoft exodus acquisition there we go they've they've 00:48:47.337 --> 00:48:51.617 rebuilt stronger and better and there's just no unseating that i think maybe 00:48:51.617 --> 00:48:54.797 for the next couple of decades, 00:48:57.057 --> 00:49:00.537 Fuzzy Mistborn moves in with 2,500 sats. And you know, they haven't really burned 00:49:00.537 --> 00:49:02.497 anybody in a really bad way since the acquisition. 00:49:02.717 --> 00:49:08.297 You must construct additional bylons. Love the episode, makes me want to go and start StarCraft. 00:49:08.757 --> 00:49:12.237 And you know, StarCraft 2, that was an excellent trilogy as well. 00:49:12.357 --> 00:49:13.157 I think that bit's for Brent. 00:49:13.297 --> 00:49:18.677 19,111 sats saying, here's a little support for LinuxFest Northwest cost. 00:49:18.957 --> 00:49:20.437 Hope you guys have a great time. 00:49:22.856 --> 00:49:30.176 Thank you. Thank you for the boost, turd. Sam H is here with 9001 sats. 00:49:31.596 --> 00:49:34.976 He says, I enjoyed the gaming content. A few things I would like to know about 00:49:34.976 --> 00:49:37.176 retro handheld game systems, like the one you mentioned. 00:49:37.976 --> 00:49:42.016 At least they're based on Linux from what I have read. The cheaper ones, 00:49:42.076 --> 00:49:44.936 though, sometimes run a more lockdown version of Linux. 00:49:45.056 --> 00:49:48.476 I'll just mention that. He says, sometimes, though, you can do things like SSH or SyncThing, 00:49:49.096 --> 00:49:53.176 and they use RetroArch for emulation, which supports rewind shaders and retro 00:49:53.176 --> 00:49:56.716 achievements yeah there's also on on the um, 00:49:57.896 --> 00:50:05.496 37x there's like a otg port a usb data ports two usbc ports one for charging and one for data and, 00:50:06.056 --> 00:50:08.956 i didn't i haven't bothered with it because it comes with so many roms i haven't 00:50:08.956 --> 00:50:11.516 really needed to add any if anything there's too many i'd almost rather have 00:50:11.516 --> 00:50:12.936 an sd card with fewer roms on it 00:50:13.356 --> 00:50:16.616 but i suppose you could probably mount it as a disc too he says 00:50:16.616 --> 00:50:22.816 also you can look into third party os options like kn nully rockinix or mu os 00:50:22.816 --> 00:50:26.856 it depends on the device there's a wide range of form factors and prices though 00:50:26.856 --> 00:50:31.276 the future is unclear in the u.s due to tariff charges for recommendations and 00:50:31.276 --> 00:50:33.776 reviews i did although you know really with linux fess. 00:50:33.776 --> 00:50:34.636 Coming up that's. 00:50:34.636 --> 00:50:37.216 That's the real that's the real day i think i'm gonna don't tell my dad but 00:50:37.216 --> 00:50:40.276 i think i'm gonna get him caffeinated linux moves in with so cool right and 00:50:40.276 --> 00:50:45.296 he's got he's still got his old no way black screen. 00:50:45.376 --> 00:50:46.236 Long time listener. 00:50:46.756 --> 00:50:49.656 But it's funny how small the screen is. 00:50:50.336 --> 00:50:53.516 And the other thing that struck me, because I was over at his place this weekend 00:50:53.516 --> 00:50:55.116 and I was, you know, playing Tetris. 00:50:56.596 --> 00:50:57.856 One cartridge at a time. 00:50:58.476 --> 00:50:59.276 Oh yeah, right. 00:50:59.536 --> 00:51:03.476 And I've got one that's thinner with a bigger screen that has 18,000 ROMs on it. 00:51:03.636 --> 00:51:07.536 And like one cartridge at a time. Because that was about roughly when I first 00:51:07.536 --> 00:51:10.756 got started with a bunch of things. 610 works though. 00:51:10.836 --> 00:51:12.116 I didn't know, I didn't get to play it. I was so sad on Tetris. 00:51:12.196 --> 00:51:15.996 I got my USB Wi-Fi adapter is finally working. Yeah. 00:51:17.436 --> 00:51:23.396 So here's two thousand and six bits in honor of two great releases from 2006. 00:51:28.806 --> 00:51:31.886 Also love hearing the deep dive and gaming episodes and would love to hear. 00:51:31.886 --> 00:51:34.926 Hey, thank you for the review report. 00:51:37.446 --> 00:51:41.306 Well, GC boosted in 7,777 sats. 00:51:43.066 --> 00:51:47.926 Best show ever. Been binge listening on old episodes and you know, 00:51:48.066 --> 00:51:50.786 it's too much when that Bang Bus song is stuck in your head. 00:51:51.026 --> 00:51:53.386 Oh no, not the Bang Bus one. 00:51:57.426 --> 00:51:59.986 When wes gets technical it's a thing of beauty. 00:52:00.826 --> 00:52:02.406 Yeah we do love it we do love it. 00:52:02.406 --> 00:52:09.766 I will be in your neck of the woods in a few weeks presenting at a grafana con with my nixos laptop oh. 00:52:09.766 --> 00:52:12.246 Okay grafana con wes. 00:52:14.486 --> 00:52:19.586 And also this happens to be a zip code boost if you take the boost and you go 00:52:19.586 --> 00:52:23.826 times 12 and plus 118, you get that old zip code. 00:52:26.766 --> 00:52:29.226 Oh, good, because we were just saying before the show, like, 00:52:29.286 --> 00:52:31.006 we haven't had a zip code boost in a long time and we miss it, 00:52:31.046 --> 00:52:32.646 and Wes has been bringing the map every week. 00:52:34.266 --> 00:52:34.986 Whoa. Whoa. 00:52:36.746 --> 00:52:38.526 Got a little dusty. Alright. 00:52:41.166 --> 00:52:44.546 Yeah, now slide that over. Slide that one over. Mm-hmm. 00:52:49.866 --> 00:52:50.306 Right. 00:52:53.286 --> 00:52:53.726 Okay. 00:52:56.726 --> 00:53:00.126 Paper map, of course. Yeah, plug it into your paper map, Wes. 00:53:01.506 --> 00:53:03.006 Damn theater of the mind, Wes. 00:53:03.126 --> 00:53:06.226 I like the LEDs you added for where the zip codes come from. 00:53:07.086 --> 00:53:09.466 Yeah, well, you know, it was hard to read in the dark. 00:53:13.546 --> 00:53:14.586 I feel like... 00:53:16.846 --> 00:53:20.186 People do not appreciate that. People do not appreciate that. 00:53:20.566 --> 00:53:22.486 What do we got? What do we got? What do we got? It says green. 00:53:30.566 --> 00:53:34.886 Oh! Hello, California. Thank you for boosting in. 00:53:35.606 --> 00:53:38.926 And GC, thank you for being a zip code boost. We love those. 00:53:39.286 --> 00:53:41.706 You know, it's fun to make Wes search the map during the show. 00:53:42.006 --> 00:53:43.726 Both Brent and I just like to sit back and watch. 00:53:45.346 --> 00:53:48.406 It's folding it back up that I appreciate the most, actually. 00:53:48.546 --> 00:53:51.326 Yeah nobody doesn't like 00:53:51.326 --> 00:53:54.406 us nobody doesn't like you yes let 00:53:54.406 --> 00:53:57.546 us know how it goes and thank you everybody who stream sats as you listened 00:53:57.546 --> 00:54:01.186 as well we had 31 of you stream sats and you did a pretty good lift i have to 00:54:01.186 --> 00:54:06.786 say thank you very much 79,430 sats were streamed as you listen to the show 00:54:06.786 --> 00:54:11.866 that's pretty rad and then when you combine that with our boosters episode 611 00:54:11.866 --> 00:54:14.146 are before linux fest Northwest episode, 00:54:14.846 --> 00:54:18.086 stack 294,854 sets. 00:54:24.421 --> 00:54:27.601 If you'd like to boost in, you can use Fountain FM. They host everything and 00:54:27.601 --> 00:54:30.361 make it really easy to grab sats or connect it to something like Strike. 00:54:31.121 --> 00:54:34.961 Strike is a great company. They only work with Bitcoin. They're available in over 110 countries. 00:54:35.601 --> 00:54:40.221 There are also a lot of self-hosted options and a bunch of great apps at podcastapps.com. 00:54:40.361 --> 00:54:42.201 You also get our transcript. 00:54:42.501 --> 00:54:46.101 You get notification when we're live. Include live listing in your podcast app. 00:54:46.161 --> 00:54:48.861 So like when we're streaming next week, that'll be in your podcasting 2.0 app. 00:54:49.041 --> 00:54:53.201 You get enhanced chapters and near instant notification when the published version 00:54:53.201 --> 00:54:56.181 is out too. So not only can you boost, but you get all those extra features 00:54:56.181 --> 00:54:59.221 with a better podcast app at podcastapps.com. 00:54:59.241 --> 00:54:59.601 That sounds right. 00:54:59.681 --> 00:55:02.001 And Fountain makes it the easiest, but there are lots of options. 00:55:02.181 --> 00:55:04.921 Thank you, everybody who supports the show, our members, our boosters. 00:55:05.541 --> 00:55:06.501 It means a heck of a lot to us. 00:55:06.501 --> 00:55:09.161 Self-hostable, GPL-ed Zelda. Wow. 00:55:09.181 --> 00:55:12.781 Now let's talk about Ignition. Well, that's what they called it. 00:55:12.841 --> 00:55:15.641 I guess it's kind of a cute name, you know, starting your system up. 00:55:16.301 --> 00:55:18.101 Ignition is a minimal app for editing 00:55:18.101 --> 00:55:22.901 the auto-start entries on a free desktop-compliant Linux distribution. 00:55:23.501 --> 00:55:27.021 Read your distribution of choice. Now, most desktop environments, 00:55:27.281 --> 00:55:28.461 well, actually, that's not true. 00:55:28.801 --> 00:55:33.101 Some desktop environments have tools built in to manage your quote-unquote startup items. 00:55:33.621 --> 00:55:36.661 But not everyone does, and not all of them catch everything. 00:55:37.221 --> 00:55:40.601 Ignition focuses on just managing your startup entries. 00:55:40.821 --> 00:55:44.261 You can create entries. You can create scripts that can run. 00:55:44.381 --> 00:55:45.781 You obviously can delete stuff. 00:55:46.181 --> 00:55:50.001 It's just a straightforward app. You load on any Linux box, Plasma, 00:55:50.161 --> 00:55:51.721 Organome, or any free desktop. 00:55:52.341 --> 00:55:54.801 And you can take things out of your startup. You know, at first it just seemed 00:55:54.801 --> 00:56:00.441 like, okay, kind of a handy way to, maybe you were going to go ask Gyppity something 00:56:00.441 --> 00:56:03.961 or Cloud or whatever else or your local Ollama or OpenWeb UI. 00:56:05.043 --> 00:56:05.903 It's GPL3. 00:56:06.103 --> 00:56:08.363 Oftentimes, that's just kind of a lot of context switching from the terminal, 00:56:08.463 --> 00:56:11.583 right? Like, you know, okay, copy and paste bits of the file I'm working with. 00:56:11.803 --> 00:56:11.963 Love this. 00:56:12.103 --> 00:56:15.423 It's called Record Fs. As often happens, like, oh, I want an FFM pick in the end. 00:56:15.443 --> 00:56:18.323 And it's just a very simple, well, in design, a desktop application that allows 00:56:18.323 --> 00:56:23.603 you to record audio from a specific application. The height wasn't divisible by two. 00:56:23.723 --> 00:56:27.643 And that makes it just before unhappy. I could go top. 00:56:27.643 --> 00:56:31.823 Pop to another tab and ask something there. Or I could just sort of echo my 00:56:31.823 --> 00:56:34.083 prompt into this tool and have it spit me out the command. 00:56:34.083 --> 00:56:35.303 And then you can save the recording. 00:56:35.423 --> 00:56:36.823 So I just kind of started that way. 00:56:36.963 --> 00:56:40.303 By default to your music directory. So you could capture a live stream like 00:56:40.303 --> 00:56:42.643 ours, a YouTube video you're watching, anything. 00:56:42.783 --> 00:56:44.683 Absolutely. Or capture a blog file. 00:56:44.683 --> 00:56:48.363 This always happens to me when I'm capturing audio. If you have an app that gives you something. 00:56:48.383 --> 00:56:49.323 You won't capture. 00:56:49.723 --> 00:56:52.443 Because it's only using the audio from that one application. 00:56:52.443 --> 00:56:55.863 So then I can just set up a little loop where I echo what I want the script to do. 00:56:56.483 --> 00:57:00.583 And then I use T to record the results. So I would have it continue the pipe, 00:57:00.683 --> 00:57:03.443 but also write to a file so I could actually see what was generated because 00:57:03.443 --> 00:57:09.423 in a test system, I decided I would just start piping these directly to Bash or Python. 00:57:09.643 --> 00:57:12.383 So I would say like, write me a Bash script to do X and just pipe it to Bash. 00:57:12.383 --> 00:57:15.603 I'll have links to their GitHub repos and their Flatpak pages. No, I did not. 00:57:15.663 --> 00:57:18.183 I was trying this in a semi-safe situation. 00:57:18.343 --> 00:57:20.943 I'm always grabbing little audio bits and stuff like that. So I'm always looking 00:57:20.943 --> 00:57:23.303 for applications that can record desktop application. 00:57:23.563 --> 00:57:27.363 And that was kind of fun too because it felt like do experiment in like what 00:57:27.363 --> 00:57:30.323 kind of scripts or even applications, 00:57:30.643 --> 00:57:33.403 especially ones I started, you know i was doing python and i would 00:57:33.403 --> 00:57:36.103 set up there's a lot more virtual environment i'd give it sort of a 00:57:36.103 --> 00:57:39.123 standard set of libraries you know okay you can make it okay 00:57:39.123 --> 00:57:42.443 you've got a thing to like but i think west is right is pipewire brings 00:57:42.443 --> 00:57:45.483 us to the whole and so it became a really easy way to experiment with just how 00:57:45.483 --> 00:57:49.223 far you could sort of as they say so if you got that you know or also remember 00:57:49.223 --> 00:57:53.503 we're looking for your take on a command line fedora spins application uh and 00:57:53.503 --> 00:57:56.763 as you guys saw i was able to get it to make i mean they were kind of half broken 00:57:56.763 --> 00:57:59.523 or like most kind of jokes We'll contribute to next week's episode. 00:58:00.483 --> 00:58:04.303 Which is going to be our big one live from LinuxFest Northwest. 00:58:04.723 --> 00:58:08.243 It's coming. It's coming very soon. 00:58:12.273 --> 00:58:16.793 So make it a Linux weekend. Join us on Saturday for the Linux Fest Northwest 00:58:16.793 --> 00:58:20.773 live stream and then Sunday for our live episode from Linux Fest Northwest, 00:58:21.273 --> 00:58:25.253 both at jblive.tv or direct audio at jblive.fm. 00:58:25.633 --> 00:58:28.233 And we're going to also try to have it up on our YouTube pages and whatnot. 00:58:28.233 --> 00:58:30.953 Okay, at first it was cool just to see what kind of range it up with. 00:58:30.953 --> 00:58:32.693 Links to what we talked about in this episode. We're all trying these AIs. 00:58:33.113 --> 00:58:34.333 Like, oh, you can make it safe on your stuff. 00:58:34.553 --> 00:58:35.533 And look, it made some code that mostly works. 00:58:35.553 --> 00:58:38.833 You also find links for our Mumble Room, our Matrix Chat, where you can become 00:58:38.833 --> 00:58:39.973 a member and support us directly. 00:58:39.973 --> 00:58:42.913 Limits of what it can quickly make a program are are 00:58:42.913 --> 00:58:45.973 the limits thank you so much for joining us on this week's episode of your unplugged 00:58:45.973 --> 00:58:48.753 program generate a c program see you right back here next tuesday only the standard 00:58:48.753 --> 00:58:51.753 as in sunday linux c gcc plus 00:58:51.753 --> 00:58:57.993 ffmpeg and make a procedurally generated landscape fly over into an mp4 i don't 00:58:57.993 --> 00:59:01.813 know how to do that offhand uh but i know how ffmpeg works enough to know that 00:59:01.813 --> 00:59:05.833 the c can just sort of spit bitmaps out and ffmpeg can turn it into an mp4 and 00:59:05.833 --> 00:59:10.853 do that side of it and okay it was kind of half broken and it had a weird line and discolored but, 00:59:11.493 --> 00:59:17.553 it worked i was able to get it to generate real real janky wave files that actually 00:59:17.553 --> 00:59:22.793 played uh including some and then i made some uh kind of fun uh a custom defrag 00:59:22.793 --> 00:59:26.053 command that didn't actually defrag anything but you know if you ever wanted 00:59:26.053 --> 00:59:28.273 a way to make your terminal look busy Yeah, I always do. 00:59:38.253 --> 00:59:41.033 So i spent a little while just trying to see like okay how far can you one shot 00:59:41.033 --> 00:59:43.833 stuff what wacky utilities can i get this thing to make i had it make like 00:59:43.833 --> 00:59:47.113 a multi-user dungeon text adventure 00:59:47.113 --> 00:59:50.153 game for a little bit that was fun um but 00:59:50.153 --> 00:59:56.113 to make it super useful out of the box the stock script just uses chat gpt but 00:59:56.113 --> 01:00:00.093 i've been using open router more and more lately which is sort of a facilitator 01:00:00.093 --> 01:00:04.193 to all different providers and apis um so you can plug it in So it was really 01:00:04.193 --> 01:00:08.893 easy to just hack that in so I could use Open Router instead of having to use straight ChatGPT. 01:00:09.873 --> 01:00:12.793 Well, for the most part, their API is compatible. So... Yeah, exactly. 01:00:16.492 --> 01:00:19.552 Exactly uh and so the our pig already 01:00:19.552 --> 01:00:22.492 had enough support to choose different models right because there's already different models 01:00:22.492 --> 01:00:25.392 on the chat gpt side um and then so you can i just 01:00:25.392 --> 01:00:28.292 hacked in a different i added a new parameter to it so that you could add your 01:00:28.292 --> 01:00:33.432 own url for the api provider uh and that was enough uh so which let me play 01:00:33.432 --> 01:00:36.332 around with different ones which was kind of great and then i wrote a tiny little 01:00:36.332 --> 01:00:39.612 helper script for myself mostly because you can set a model that you want to 01:00:39.612 --> 01:00:43.552 use and then you can set a system prompt so i found it was useful to have a 01:00:43.552 --> 01:00:45.072 system prompt that just reinforced, 01:00:45.412 --> 01:00:48.772 I don't want comments, I don't want a preamble, I don't want you to say, 01:00:48.912 --> 01:00:50.452 okay, here's your answer. 01:00:50.652 --> 01:00:55.852 I don't want markdown code blocks and backticks, I just want the raw, plain text output. 01:00:56.092 --> 01:00:59.412 So eventually, after trying a little bit, I stumbled onto something that mostly worked for that. 01:00:59.952 --> 01:01:02.292 Using different models, you could tell different ones followed them, 01:01:02.352 --> 01:01:03.592 you know, more or less or whatever. 01:01:03.812 --> 01:01:07.972 So once I was kind of playing with the one-shot thing, eventually I had some 01:01:07.972 --> 01:01:09.352 scripts that were actually kind of useful. 01:01:09.352 --> 01:01:14.572 and I realized that I could then go back through and add comments either throughout 01:01:14.572 --> 01:01:16.092 the file or even just at the top. 01:01:16.752 --> 01:01:19.492 And that acted sort of as a preamble for the rest 01:01:19.492 --> 01:01:22.952 of the script and then I could just cat that file and 01:01:22.952 --> 01:01:26.172 ask it to output a whole like a fixed thing whether I 01:01:26.172 --> 01:01:28.952 included the errors at the top or I just described the changes I 01:01:28.952 --> 01:01:31.692 would want to have and then I used it's a 01:01:31.692 --> 01:01:35.012 great little tool called sponge from more utils which 01:01:35.012 --> 01:01:37.732 just helps you know you're trying to overwrite a file you want to 01:01:37.732 --> 01:01:40.992 get the contents of a file pipe it somewhere and then write it back to the same 01:01:40.992 --> 01:01:43.952 sponge lets you do that really easily so i set up a little loop where i would 01:01:43.952 --> 01:01:48.812 just you know i would add what i wanted at the top of the file i would rerun 01:01:48.812 --> 01:01:52.552 my loop to send it off to the ai have it generate a complete output and then 01:01:52.552 --> 01:01:56.912 replace the contents of the file and then i could just run it again and see if it did what i want. 01:01:57.832 --> 01:02:00.572 And you could also ask it to do a code review or like you 01:02:00.572 --> 01:02:04.092 know summarize the file or eventually i 01:02:04.092 --> 01:02:07.872 started playing around with making a audio visualizer but 01:02:07.872 --> 01:02:10.732 to do that i was going to need i wanted to connect a pipe wire 01:02:10.732 --> 01:02:13.692 so basically it would make a waveform visualization from whatever 01:02:13.692 --> 01:02:16.512 the mic was connected to i don't i didn't 01:02:16.512 --> 01:02:19.292 know how to do that offhand and i knew i would need like the right kind 01:02:19.292 --> 01:02:22.012 of environments and libraries so i was able to ask it 01:02:22.012 --> 01:02:25.052 to generate me a script or a c c actually ended 01:02:25.052 --> 01:02:27.892 up being a c plus plus program of all things but then once i 01:02:27.892 --> 01:02:30.712 had that i just added at the top i said make a flake for this 01:02:30.712 --> 01:02:33.392 and then catted it in and then out popped a 01:02:33.392 --> 01:02:36.112 flake and i had to do that a couple times to kind of tweak it but eventually i was able to 01:02:36.112 --> 01:02:39.012 get it so that it you know it had everything it needed 01:02:39.012 --> 01:02:42.032 and it worked and you then you can just kind of keep going so 01:02:42.032 --> 01:02:44.792 i realized that maybe sometimes i would want to update it needed to 01:02:44.792 --> 01:02:47.432 know both of those files to have a complete context like if i 01:02:47.432 --> 01:02:52.392 wanted to add a new library that i was using in the c program and i needed to 01:02:52.392 --> 01:02:56.712 be provided by the flake so i had it write me a bash script that would just 01:02:56.712 --> 01:03:01.712 bundle files together in like a little plain text way and then yeah so So I 01:03:01.712 --> 01:03:05.592 could then cat that entire file in and then it could just spit out like, oh. 01:03:05.732 --> 01:03:08.292 Just update the flake consistent with what we've changed in the other file. 01:03:37.304 --> 01:03:40.404 Absolutely. And, you know, you can, it seemed like you could really easily have 01:03:40.404 --> 01:03:43.584 like a library of different prompts and modes, right? You have one prompt for 01:03:43.584 --> 01:03:47.264 code generation, another one for doing code review, another one for bug fixing 01:03:47.264 --> 01:03:48.444 for your particular thing. 01:03:49.464 --> 01:03:54.624 Yeah, it was surprisingly useful. And all it needed was, you know, 01:03:54.684 --> 01:03:58.584 the API setup, the URL and API key, and there was just a little compiled Rust 01:03:58.584 --> 01:03:59.864 app. So it was like super fast. 01:04:00.124 --> 01:04:04.644 And you could give it with different models and prompts. So why wouldn't I want 01:04:04.644 --> 01:04:06.784 a little helper in my terminal? 01:04:08.844 --> 01:04:11.564 I think this is a pick that's sticking around yeah i mean there might there's 01:04:11.564 --> 01:04:14.684 probably better versions of this out here i know i mean it's there's 01:04:14.684 --> 01:04:17.504 you know the whole vibe coding thing i guess i guess this is vibe 01:04:17.504 --> 01:04:22.684 shelling i don't know um there's probably better tools in all kinds of these 01:04:22.684 --> 01:04:26.404 areas already but what i liked about this is it was all a la carte right like 01:04:26.404 --> 01:04:30.624 i didn't i was playing a bit with klein which is sort of like an open source 01:04:30.624 --> 01:04:34.824 cursor thing it's a VS Code plugin that tries to use a bunch of different AI 01:04:34.824 --> 01:04:37.344 agents to like do this for you. 01:04:37.424 --> 01:04:40.504 So you can tell it to make a change and then it'll first use an agent to figure 01:04:40.504 --> 01:04:45.004 out which files to pull in to send to the next agent, which will actually make the code changes. 01:04:45.184 --> 01:04:50.744 And then it'll review those with all kinds of neat, complicated tooling that 01:04:50.744 --> 01:04:53.324 is evolving. But that's all a lot to learn. 01:04:53.524 --> 01:04:56.944 And the most important thing to me was like, I have the context. 01:04:57.124 --> 01:05:01.104 Let me send the right thing to it. let me kind of control the interaction and 01:05:01.104 --> 01:05:05.164 just have the lowest barrier to entry possible. And this really works. 01:05:13.284 --> 01:05:16.724 No, not at all. It's just a Rust app, so if you're comfortable building a cargo 01:05:16.724 --> 01:05:19.104 app, that's basically all you need. 01:05:20.144 --> 01:05:24.524 Or you could probably ask an LLM to make a flake for you. Oh my god. 01:05:43.164 --> 01:05:48.524 Yeah, we're ready to reboot. Remember how we were updating our server? 01:05:57.764 --> 01:06:00.844 can i get another uh i think you're already trying to get there, 01:06:02.944 --> 01:06:07.744 uh-huh all right we've been up for 42 days let's reset that, 01:06:12.764 --> 01:06:16.044 yeah let me know when you got your ping going here i gotta go and i think Is 01:06:16.044 --> 01:06:17.484 it a special point? Yeah. 01:06:20.084 --> 01:06:21.184 Well, now it's going to stop. 01:06:39.517 --> 01:06:44.297 Oh, based on the timing, it looks like we've... Yes, we have got SSH. 01:06:45.897 --> 01:06:52.277 I'm in. The box is up. I think it's pretty busy getting everything started, which is a great sign. 01:07:01.977 --> 01:07:07.797 We do. Levi is online. All discs look good. Okay. 01:07:18.117 --> 01:07:23.017 Oh, yeah, and I see a bunch of Docker containers started 20 seconds ago, so we are in progress. 01:07:32.977 --> 01:07:37.197 And as usual, I had started the upgrade without actually looking at the, 01:07:37.197 --> 01:07:41.237 you know, website, although while it was happening i did go look and there were, 01:07:45.157 --> 01:07:48.937 i did notice halfway through it was like manual intervention for pac-man 7 required 01:07:48.937 --> 01:07:52.677 but not only if you had a local repository so we so we we lucked out there. 01:08:10.377 --> 01:08:11.417 That's true. and new dates. 01:08:24.897 --> 01:08:28.417 Yeah, that way we can set it up in a special way that'll help us out. 01:08:45.017 --> 01:08:46.817 And why you'll write it with AI.
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