From Boston to bootc

WEBVTT 00:00:00.017 --> 00:00:06.317 I think we've officially come full circle. We are recording in the master bedroom of an Airbnb. 00:00:06.957 --> 00:00:11.037 You know, we went around, did the scientific testing, and determined acoustically 00:00:11.037 --> 00:00:13.897 this was the best location to record the show. 00:00:14.037 --> 00:00:17.237 We don't want to get any lectures from Drew. No, no. 00:00:17.917 --> 00:00:20.357 And thankfully, I don't think we had to tear apart any beds for this one. 00:00:20.477 --> 00:00:24.577 But it's funny because the studio where we record is actually my former master 00:00:24.577 --> 00:00:25.817 bedroom converted into a studio. 00:00:25.817 --> 00:00:30.377 I do think we'll have to let Brent tear apart a bed after this just to get that 00:00:30.377 --> 00:00:33.617 energy out because he was ready to go. I was planning ahead and we're only using one mattress. 00:00:34.160 --> 00:00:47.120 Music. 00:00:45.477 --> 00:00:49.377 Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. 00:00:49.557 --> 00:00:51.117 My name is Chris. My name is Wes. 00:00:51.397 --> 00:00:54.217 And my name is Brent. Hello, gentlemen. Well, coming up on the show today, 00:00:54.397 --> 00:00:57.177 we're reporting from Red Hat Summit, and we're going to bring you the signal 00:00:57.177 --> 00:01:01.817 from the noise and why this summit has me flirting with something new. 00:01:02.057 --> 00:01:04.777 Plus, your boost, a great pick, and more. 00:01:05.557 --> 00:01:09.477 So before we go any further, let's say good morning to our friends at Tailscale. 00:01:09.617 --> 00:01:13.757 Tailscale.com slash unplugged. They are the easiest way to connect your devices 00:01:13.757 --> 00:01:17.457 and services to each other wherever they are. And when you go to tailscale.com 00:01:17.457 --> 00:01:21.937 slash unplugged, not only to support the show, but you get 100 devices for free, 00:01:22.057 --> 00:01:23.997 three user accounts, no credit card required. 00:01:24.517 --> 00:01:29.597 Tailscale is modern, secure mesh networking protected by. Wow. 00:01:30.637 --> 00:01:35.377 Easy to deploy. Zero config. No fuss VPN. The personal plan stays free. 00:01:35.777 --> 00:01:38.497 I started using it. Totally changed the way I do networking. 00:01:38.737 --> 00:01:40.657 Everything is essentially local for me now. 00:01:41.257 --> 00:01:44.037 Tailscale has bridged multiple different complex networks. I mean, 00:01:44.077 --> 00:01:48.577 I'm talking stuff behind carrier-grade NAT, VPSs, VMs that run at the studio, 00:01:48.797 --> 00:01:52.337 my laptop, my mobile devices, all on one flat mesh network. 00:01:52.457 --> 00:01:55.757 It works so darn good that now we use it for the back end of Jupyter Broadcasting 00:01:55.757 --> 00:01:57.077 server communication as well. 00:01:57.277 --> 00:02:00.417 So do thousands of other companies like Instacart, Hugging Face, Duolingo. 00:02:00.497 --> 00:02:05.917 They've all switched to TailScale. So you can use enterprise-grade mesh networking 00:02:05.917 --> 00:02:08.137 for yourself or your business. Try it for free. 00:02:08.297 --> 00:02:14.897 Go to TailScale.com slash unplugged. That is tailscale.com slash unplugged. 00:02:17.777 --> 00:02:22.817 Well, we are here in our Airbnb. Yeah, why are we doing housekeeping at someone else's Airbnb? 00:02:23.157 --> 00:02:25.797 I know. How do they, you know, these Airbnbs, they just get more and more out 00:02:25.797 --> 00:02:28.537 of you every single time. But maybe it's because we brought our own mess. 00:02:29.584 --> 00:02:31.864 Well, actually, it's not so much of a mess. It's actually going really well. 00:02:32.064 --> 00:02:35.184 People are getting excited about our Terminal User Interface Challenge. 00:02:35.564 --> 00:02:38.844 We are still looking for feedback on the rules. We have it up on our GitHub. 00:02:39.564 --> 00:02:43.684 We've seen some already good engagement, though, people talking about it in the Matrix room. 00:02:44.264 --> 00:02:46.944 So we're getting really close to launching it when we get back. 00:02:47.044 --> 00:02:48.804 It's the final week before we launch, essentially. 00:02:49.064 --> 00:02:51.924 We're going to get back in the studio next Sunday. We're going to sort of set 00:02:51.924 --> 00:02:54.184 up the final parameters of the challenge, give you one week, 00:02:54.264 --> 00:02:55.924 and then the following episode is going to actually launch. 00:02:56.064 --> 00:03:00.624 Get ready to uninstall Wayland. Yeah, take the Tui Challenge with us. 00:03:01.684 --> 00:03:04.484 There's a lot there. It's looking like it's going to be a lot of fun, 00:03:04.504 --> 00:03:06.704 and we're going to learn about a bunch of new apps I never knew about. 00:03:06.824 --> 00:03:09.164 We have a lot of work to do because the listeners, they're way ahead. 00:03:10.824 --> 00:03:13.444 Also, a call out to the completionists. We're doing this for a couple of episodes. 00:03:13.584 --> 00:03:17.444 We know a lot of you listen to the back catalog, listening in the past, 00:03:17.464 --> 00:03:18.884 if you will, and then you're catching up. 00:03:19.364 --> 00:03:22.184 We recently heard from somebody that was about 15 episodes behind, 00:03:22.304 --> 00:03:25.104 and it got us thinking, how many of you out there are listening in the past? 00:03:25.104 --> 00:03:30.884 So when you hear this, boost in and tell us where you're at in the back catalog and what the date is. 00:03:31.004 --> 00:03:34.104 Until those darn scientists finish up. This is the closest thing we have to 00:03:34.104 --> 00:03:36.944 time travel, okay? And then one last call out for feedback. 00:03:37.604 --> 00:03:41.184 This episode, I'm getting into why I am switching off of NixOS. 00:03:41.864 --> 00:03:45.804 And this isn't a negative thing about NixOS, but I thought I'd collect some information. 00:03:45.804 --> 00:03:49.004 If you tried it and bounced off of NixOS, boost in and tell me why. 00:03:49.004 --> 00:03:52.584 I'll be sharing my story later. But also, if you're sticking with NixOS, 00:03:52.904 --> 00:03:57.604 I'd be curious to know what it is about it that's absolutely mandatory that you wouldn't give up. 00:03:57.744 --> 00:04:00.324 Boost that in as well, or linuxunplugged.com slash contact. 00:04:00.764 --> 00:04:04.564 We'll have more information about that down the road, because really, 00:04:04.724 --> 00:04:08.744 it's just ancillary to what this episode is all about. And that's Red Hat Summit. 00:04:12.004 --> 00:04:15.624 So we were flown out to cover Red Hat Summit, as we have done for the past few 00:04:15.624 --> 00:04:20.704 years. And the ones where there's a Red Hat Enterprise release are always really the most exciting. 00:04:21.144 --> 00:04:26.464 And Red Hat Summit 2025 here in Boston at the Boston Convention and Exhibition 00:04:26.464 --> 00:04:29.644 Center was May 19th through the 22nd of May. 00:04:30.004 --> 00:04:34.764 And they did something a little different this year. They decided to make what 00:04:34.764 --> 00:04:37.944 they really referred to as Day Zero Community Day. 00:04:38.164 --> 00:04:42.904 So this was a track that was sort of ran adjacent to Red Hat Summit in the past 00:04:42.904 --> 00:04:47.104 is now a dedicated entire day. And I thought I'd go check it out. 00:04:54.059 --> 00:04:57.859 Welcome to Community Day at Red Hat Summit, day one. 00:04:58.099 --> 00:05:02.159 And it's all about, you guessed it, artificial intelligence. 00:05:02.739 --> 00:05:06.479 Well, okay, and Linux. But they made a pretty good call. 00:05:06.619 --> 00:05:12.299 They said, hey, Red Hat is working to set the open standards for Red Hat and for data and for models. 00:05:12.539 --> 00:05:17.979 And here at Summit, you can interact with us directly and inform how we participate 00:05:17.979 --> 00:05:21.399 in those. So sort of like get involved in AI through Red Hat, 00:05:21.639 --> 00:05:25.779 a call to action, as well as just general information about today's event. 00:05:26.019 --> 00:05:28.519 You knew right from the beginning, OK, it's going to be another year where we 00:05:28.519 --> 00:05:31.999 focus on AI quite a bit. But this was a kind of a different call. 00:05:32.539 --> 00:05:37.119 It was there's a lot of impact still to be made for open source AI. 00:05:37.479 --> 00:05:40.839 And we're really as a company, Red Hat's really making a push. 00:05:41.199 --> 00:05:45.459 So why don't you get on board with our open source initiatives and inform the conversation there? 00:05:45.459 --> 00:05:48.159 We'll push the wider industry based on your feedback. I mean, 00:05:48.259 --> 00:05:50.859 I do think that's a trend we see play out over and over, 00:05:51.079 --> 00:05:54.219 both between, you know, Red Hat interfacing with the industry, 00:05:54.419 --> 00:05:59.259 but also really leveraging and in many cases sometimes being driven by what's 00:05:59.259 --> 00:06:02.419 available and what's happening in the open source side because they really have 00:06:02.419 --> 00:06:05.299 skill sets and how to, you know, turn that into an enterprise product. 00:06:05.319 --> 00:06:08.039 So the better the open source side gets, the better their product gets. 00:06:08.239 --> 00:06:10.899 I wasn't really sure what the focus would be this year. I mean, 00:06:10.939 --> 00:06:15.039 I knew RHEL 10 was coming, but I, you know, last year was really focused on local AIs. 00:06:15.159 --> 00:06:17.319 Could you do two years of Summit on AI? 00:06:17.579 --> 00:06:22.239 And this was Brent's first Red Hat Summit. Which is hard to believe, really. 00:06:22.559 --> 00:06:27.379 And we wanted to capture his first impressions sort of right there after he'd 00:06:27.379 --> 00:06:29.739 had a chance to walk around on what they're calling Day Zero. 00:06:29.899 --> 00:06:34.019 Well, this is my first time here at Red Hat Summit. And I got to say, 00:06:34.099 --> 00:06:36.359 you guys warned me about the scale of this thing. 00:06:37.299 --> 00:06:41.599 Wow. Just the infrastructure and the number of booths and the number of people 00:06:41.599 --> 00:06:46.779 and like how organized it is to get everybody all here and doing the things 00:06:46.779 --> 00:06:47.679 they're supposed to be doing. 00:06:47.879 --> 00:06:51.439 I am a little overwhelmed by just the size. 00:06:51.719 --> 00:06:56.659 I bet you they spend more on hotel rooms than I probably make in five years. 00:06:56.819 --> 00:06:57.699 I don't know, maybe more. 00:06:57.959 --> 00:07:02.499 Oh, gosh. I do have a nice hotel room, but even just the layout, 00:07:02.659 --> 00:07:05.039 like how everything's so close. You don't have to go very far. 00:07:05.179 --> 00:07:08.119 You don't have to travel. everybody knows sort of there's people 00:07:08.119 --> 00:07:11.799 just standing around helping with wayfinding like it's super impressive the 00:07:11.799 --> 00:07:16.099 vibe's a bit different at linux fest they weren't even doing registration they 00:07:16.099 --> 00:07:19.439 weren't counting attendees there wasn't anything like that and here you have 00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:23.259 to get your badge scan to enter every area in every room and the security is 00:07:23.259 --> 00:07:26.819 definitely a higher presence what what impression does that leave on you. 00:07:28.162 --> 00:07:32.522 Well, I guess there are relationships being built here that are very different 00:07:32.522 --> 00:07:35.162 than the relationships being built at other conferences, right? 00:07:35.262 --> 00:07:38.962 Like we saw some negotiation booths. Didn't see those at Linux Fest. 00:07:39.882 --> 00:07:44.262 So it's a bit of a different feel, but there's some real stuff happening here. 00:07:44.362 --> 00:07:45.542 Some real connections being made. 00:07:46.102 --> 00:07:50.742 Day two should be even more interesting. Really, it feels like maybe things 00:07:50.742 --> 00:07:52.622 are just kind of slow rolling today. 00:07:52.742 --> 00:07:55.502 Did you get that impression that it's just sort of not quite started yet? 00:07:55.502 --> 00:07:59.762 It seems like people are still arriving and warming up to the whole situation, 00:08:00.022 --> 00:08:00.962 getting the lay of the land. 00:08:01.142 --> 00:08:04.182 So I'm excited to see tomorrow. That's when all the exciting stuff happens. 00:08:04.522 --> 00:08:08.642 Yeah, just wait. You get to wake up real early for a bright and early keynote, Brent. 00:08:09.002 --> 00:08:11.522 I forgot about how we have a time zone disadvantage. 00:08:12.442 --> 00:08:17.682 So day zero, if you will, was sort of the ideal day to go see the expo hall. 00:08:17.842 --> 00:08:23.822 These expo halls are just quite the spectacle. I mean, the crews that come in 00:08:23.822 --> 00:08:28.962 and set these up in an amazing amount of time, they also have all of this racking 00:08:28.962 --> 00:08:29.842 they do for the lighting. 00:08:30.102 --> 00:08:33.482 I learned it took them two days to put all that together. And apparently that 00:08:33.482 --> 00:08:34.542 was like quite a miracle. 00:08:34.762 --> 00:08:41.062 Yeah. I mean, these booths are structures with like areas inside them and, 00:08:41.062 --> 00:08:44.022 you know, massive displays and LED lighting embedded everywhere. 00:08:44.462 --> 00:08:49.282 These are your highest of the high-end display booth type stuff. 00:08:49.402 --> 00:08:50.602 I mean, this is really nice stuff. 00:08:51.002 --> 00:08:52.982 And we wanted to see it before it got too crowded. 00:08:53.522 --> 00:08:57.382 Well, you can't do day one without doing the expo hall. And it's an expo hall. 00:08:57.462 --> 00:09:01.662 Let me tell you, it's a whole other scale than, well, LinuxFest Northwest or scale. 00:09:02.162 --> 00:09:04.442 Lots of production, lots of money, lots of lighting. 00:09:05.122 --> 00:09:09.322 And right now we're standing out front of the DevZone, which seems to be one 00:09:09.322 --> 00:09:13.362 of the more popular areas, and in particular the DevZone Theater. 00:09:13.662 --> 00:09:15.802 And what do they seem to be going over, Wes? Wes? 00:09:16.253 --> 00:09:22.213 Yeah, they're talking about the marriage of GitOps and Red Hat Enterprise Linux image mode. 00:09:22.393 --> 00:09:27.333 And despite us just being in a packed talk, I think there might be more people 00:09:27.333 --> 00:09:30.433 trying to watch this here on the Expo Hall floor. 00:09:31.033 --> 00:09:35.033 I think there's a lot of excitement around image mode and the things you're 00:09:35.033 --> 00:09:37.093 going to be able to do or can already do. 00:09:37.293 --> 00:09:43.273 We're tying it to existing declarative workflows with patterns that developers 00:09:43.273 --> 00:09:45.953 like that now can meet the infrastructure. 00:09:46.433 --> 00:09:51.933 There does seem to be a real hunger for it here. Like, it's standing-only room right now. 00:09:52.153 --> 00:09:55.033 And they're doing a live presentation, too, so there's a screen. 00:09:55.093 --> 00:09:58.353 And everybody's trying to see it, but there's so many people in the way. 00:09:58.453 --> 00:10:00.333 Like, we're here in the back. We can barely see the screen. 00:10:00.573 --> 00:10:03.913 So, Brent, what do you think of this expo hall compared to other experiences you've had? 00:10:04.473 --> 00:10:10.533 It is very large. I've got to say it's very well-spaced. Like, you can see a ton. 00:10:10.813 --> 00:10:14.013 It's not like these little cubes. Many expo halls just feel closed in. 00:10:14.013 --> 00:10:17.353 And this is open and breathy and tons of people, but it doesn't feel squished 00:10:17.353 --> 00:10:21.753 together. And it's bright and, I don't know, innovative? You know what does feel squishy? 00:10:22.313 --> 00:10:28.273 This floor. Why is this like this? So we're in the, like, dev room cloudy space? 00:10:28.373 --> 00:10:31.093 I know. We're at app services, Brett. Oh. 00:10:31.613 --> 00:10:34.493 See, I'm confused. But the flooring, they've added extra cush. 00:10:34.773 --> 00:10:36.413 It's, like, very cloudy. 00:10:37.133 --> 00:10:38.653 Feels good on the tired feet. 00:10:39.641 --> 00:10:43.981 Now, something that you caught in there was image mode, and there was buzz on 00:10:43.981 --> 00:10:48.841 the expo hall floor about image mode, but RHEL 10 hadn't actually been announced yet. 00:10:49.101 --> 00:10:53.481 So we hadn't officially heard the news about image mode, but staff were walking 00:10:53.481 --> 00:10:57.021 around and literally asking, have you heard any leaks about RHEL 10? 00:10:57.521 --> 00:10:59.701 You heard anything? Because there's some things going around. 00:11:00.061 --> 00:11:02.481 And then we were like, and I can't remember what we said, and it was like, 00:11:02.641 --> 00:11:06.061 why don't you tell us what the leak is, and we'll tell you if we heard it, was our answer. 00:11:07.321 --> 00:11:11.041 So there was some anticipation around day two and the keynote, 00:11:11.041 --> 00:11:16.201 because that's where we expected to get the official news of REL10 and Matt 00:11:16.201 --> 00:11:18.521 Hicks, the CEO of Red Hat, kick things off. 00:11:19.661 --> 00:11:26.321 Welcome to Red Hat Summit 2025. This is our favorite week of the year, 00:11:26.321 --> 00:11:31.921 and it's great to have so many customers and partners here with us in Boston. 00:11:32.621 --> 00:11:38.641 There's so much to learn this week, and we hope that each of you can come away 00:11:38.641 --> 00:11:42.161 with a new insight to improve your business, 00:11:42.661 --> 00:11:50.421 yourself, and hopefully strengthen one of the things that brings many of us here, open source. 00:11:51.121 --> 00:11:55.161 He had an analogy pretty quickly after that, where we all three looked at each 00:11:55.161 --> 00:11:58.061 other in the dimly lit keynote room and we're like, what? 00:11:58.181 --> 00:12:01.061 So I wanted to play it again for us so we could actually have a conversation 00:12:01.061 --> 00:12:06.561 about it. This isn't about replacing your expertise. This is about amplifying it. 00:12:08.501 --> 00:12:16.541 I recently had to explain this tension to my 10-year-old son who loves basketball. 00:12:17.261 --> 00:12:22.901 This is how I explained it to him. Imagine a new sports drink comes out, 00:12:23.021 --> 00:12:27.441 and when you drink it, every shot you take goes in. 00:12:28.361 --> 00:12:32.201 How would this change the world of basketball? 00:12:34.573 --> 00:12:38.473 Now, an extreme position is it would kill the world of basketball. 00:12:38.933 --> 00:12:45.453 How can you have competition when a middle schooler could shoot better than Steph Curry? 00:12:46.893 --> 00:12:50.273 But I don't think that is necessarily true. 00:12:51.613 --> 00:12:58.013 Strength still matters. Just getting the ball to the rim from half court is no easy feat. 00:12:59.693 --> 00:13:03.573 Defense still matters. Your shot can be blocked. 00:13:04.433 --> 00:13:09.113 Speed still matters. You have to get open just to take a shot. 00:13:10.073 --> 00:13:18.813 So yes, a sports drink like this would drastically affect one aspect of the game, accuracy. 00:13:19.793 --> 00:13:25.693 But how can we possibly understand the impact on a game just by removing one 00:13:25.693 --> 00:13:31.593 factor when And there are so many others in regards to height, 00:13:32.353 --> 00:13:36.473 speed, endurance, athleticism, strength. 00:13:38.233 --> 00:13:45.013 A change like that would fundamentally change the world of basketball that my son knows and loves. 00:13:45.293 --> 00:13:50.433 It would change who could be great at the game. It would change the focus of 00:13:50.433 --> 00:13:57.973 the game. It might change the rules of the game, but it would not eliminate the game. 00:13:58.593 --> 00:14:04.033 I believe we would take these factors, we would shape them into a new game, 00:14:04.153 --> 00:14:09.333 and given just the inherent creativity in people, that new game would be better. 00:14:11.973 --> 00:14:19.793 Right now, that's exactly where we are with AI. we're in the moment of uncertainty 00:14:19.793 --> 00:14:23.033 between games, between worlds. 00:14:23.393 --> 00:14:30.533 We have to simultaneously understand that while the fundamentals that we know 00:14:30.533 --> 00:14:35.213 are changing, maybe beyond the point of recognition, 00:14:35.633 --> 00:14:43.953 there are so many other factors that come into play in terms of creating true business value. 00:14:44.533 --> 00:14:47.553 So there's a couple of things that jumped out at me during the keynote when he said that. 00:14:47.773 --> 00:14:52.573 And I think the first one was, this is, again, the CEO of Red Hat. And I think he just... 00:14:53.694 --> 00:14:59.334 Gave us an analogy to what they view AI as, as this almost magic sports drink 00:14:59.334 --> 00:15:02.614 that means that if they can get everything else to line up, 00:15:02.934 --> 00:15:06.454 all the other supporting players in the game to line up, that then they have 00:15:06.454 --> 00:15:08.894 this solution that's going to let them get nothing but net. 00:15:09.874 --> 00:15:14.914 That is, that's essentially like a makeup company saying they have discovered 00:15:14.914 --> 00:15:17.434 the fountain of youth, and they're going to bottle it, right? 00:15:17.534 --> 00:15:21.454 I mean, that is the biggest of the biggest statements. So just starting there, 00:15:21.614 --> 00:15:26.074 before we even get into the other aspect of the analogy, what are your impressions of that? 00:15:26.674 --> 00:15:31.414 Well, I think it's a big deal. Like, AI is all uncertainty currently, 00:15:31.414 --> 00:15:36.934 but this statement feels like we know exactly the direction we want to go in. 00:15:37.034 --> 00:15:40.894 We are already working towards it, and it's already doing things for us. 00:15:41.014 --> 00:15:46.134 And there's still a lot of vision here from a company that otherwise didn't 00:15:46.134 --> 00:15:47.834 work on AI, right, until recently. 00:15:47.834 --> 00:15:50.594 And it does seem like they have a 00:15:50.594 --> 00:15:54.134 lot of the supporting products in place to realize this idea 00:15:54.134 --> 00:15:57.054 that he put out there and we can get into some of that later but they they have 00:15:57.054 --> 00:16:00.374 several product pieces that sit on top of rel that 00:16:00.374 --> 00:16:06.374 are trying to enable this vendorless accelerator neutral back-end neutral ai 00:16:06.374 --> 00:16:10.674 system that's local or in the cloud also when it's in the cloud it's completely 00:16:10.674 --> 00:16:14.794 vendor neutral from oracle to azure or you can run it on your own infrastructure 00:16:14.794 --> 00:16:17.534 and you know, pick your back end models. 00:16:17.934 --> 00:16:20.434 So they're trying to put all the supporting players in place, 00:16:20.614 --> 00:16:23.414 but it's, to me, it still feels like a real wild analogy. 00:16:23.754 --> 00:16:29.814 See, I think I see it more as trying to acknowledge the fears of folks around 00:16:29.814 --> 00:16:36.314 AI and the uncertainty, but making a pitch on the sort of human enablement side, right? 00:16:36.414 --> 00:16:39.354 Like kind of talking to the people who have to work with their products and 00:16:39.354 --> 00:16:43.974 administer them and saying like, we think this will make you more effective in that goal. 00:16:43.974 --> 00:16:48.074 And then to your point, on the other side, they're then working to make sure 00:16:48.074 --> 00:16:53.654 that their technology is ready to meet that and interface with whatever AI power-up 00:16:53.654 --> 00:16:56.934 you are able to get. The way I interpreted this... 00:16:58.150 --> 00:17:01.510 Re-listening. I think the look we gave each other live was like, what? 00:17:01.930 --> 00:17:05.930 How does this, what's this trying to say? And re-listening to it here live, 00:17:06.130 --> 00:17:11.770 I got a little confused because at first he set it up as like, open source is great. 00:17:11.950 --> 00:17:15.510 Here's the basketball, you know, sports drink thing that gives you superpowers. 00:17:15.610 --> 00:17:20.270 And I thought, okay, open source is the sports drink. and it allows all sorts 00:17:20.270 --> 00:17:25.310 of new things to happen and all sorts of new technologies to flourish because 00:17:25.310 --> 00:17:28.530 you've solved that problem in a way that is collaborative, etc., etc. 00:17:28.790 --> 00:17:33.250 And then he's quickly shifted to the AI piece, which almost reflects, 00:17:33.490 --> 00:17:37.070 for me, the trajectory of Red Hat. 00:17:37.230 --> 00:17:43.030 Yeah, they very much came to the point of saying we see the path that AI is 00:17:43.030 --> 00:17:48.270 on right now as a similar path that open source was on and Linux was on 10 to 20 years ago. 00:17:48.750 --> 00:17:52.850 While this might feel new for 00:17:52.850 --> 00:17:56.950 many of us, this isn't the first time we've experienced this in software. 00:17:57.170 --> 00:18:06.390 In fact, when open source emerged, there were a lot of people that felt the same way about it. 00:18:07.850 --> 00:18:15.650 Open source challenged how software created value, even what competition meant. 00:18:15.650 --> 00:18:22.130 It removed barriers that defined proprietary software. 00:18:22.230 --> 00:18:28.770 It even added a new factor around collaboration being critical for success. 00:18:30.350 --> 00:18:39.130 And in that challenge, it was feared, resisted, ridiculed, attacked. 00:18:39.130 --> 00:18:49.850 And yet, last year, there were over 5 billion contributions made to open source software. 00:18:51.516 --> 00:18:55.676 Despite the fear, despite the attacks, despite the disruption, 00:18:56.736 --> 00:19:00.756 open source still changed the world of software. 00:19:01.956 --> 00:19:06.156 I felt that potential in my first experience with open source. 00:19:06.396 --> 00:19:12.756 It captured my imagination along with millions of others. 00:19:13.216 --> 00:19:19.816 It defined my career along with millions of others. Where others saw fear or 00:19:19.816 --> 00:19:26.336 disruption, I saw potential, along with millions of others. 00:19:27.256 --> 00:19:32.796 That is exactly what we're experiencing with AI right now. 00:19:32.996 --> 00:19:39.616 The world that many of us know is open source and software and IT. 00:19:39.616 --> 00:19:46.416 We have shaped this world over decades, and now the rules are changing. 00:19:47.456 --> 00:19:52.676 And while that can be scary and that can be disruptive, if we take a step back, 00:19:52.816 --> 00:19:56.176 the potential is also undeniable. 00:19:56.796 --> 00:20:01.236 I would be really interested in the audience's thoughts on the parallels and 00:20:01.236 --> 00:20:02.956 analogies that Matt was drawing here. 00:20:03.076 --> 00:20:05.756 Boosting with your thoughts, if you agree, if you strongly disagree, 00:20:05.756 --> 00:20:07.636 I'd really like to hear that as well. 00:20:08.016 --> 00:20:12.416 But I think the news we were sitting there waiting for was actually RHEL 10. 00:20:12.416 --> 00:20:17.636 And so Matt steps off the stage for the first time and we get into the news. 00:20:17.816 --> 00:20:23.316 Please welcome Red Hat Senior Vice President and Chief Product Officer, Ashesh Badani. 00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:31.440 Music. 00:20:34.248 --> 00:20:40.128 Everywhere you turn, the world is running on Linux. 00:20:40.888 --> 00:20:47.188 Tens of millions of people trust Linux to power the critical infrastructure. 00:20:47.768 --> 00:20:55.008 And trillions of dollars a day is dependent on Linux. For more than 20 years, 00:20:55.728 --> 00:21:02.188 Red Hat Enterprise Linux, or RHEL, has been the trusted platform for organizations around the world. 00:21:02.548 --> 00:21:09.568 It is the heart of Red Hat's portfolio and the foundation of our core technologies. 00:21:09.948 --> 00:21:17.468 But Linux is often managed the same way it was 10 or 15 years ago. 00:21:17.768 --> 00:21:20.368 Today, we're changing that. 00:21:21.268 --> 00:21:29.568 We're giving Linux admins new superpowers that allow them to wait less and do more. 00:21:29.848 --> 00:21:35.168 That's why I am so excited to announce REL10. 00:21:41.808 --> 00:21:49.508 This is the most impactful, most innovative release we've had in a long time. 00:21:49.508 --> 00:21:52.708 And image mode is one of those reasons. 00:21:52.848 --> 00:21:56.088 We'll get to that in a moment. But there was another announcement up on stage 00:21:56.088 --> 00:21:57.268 that I wanted to include too. 00:21:57.448 --> 00:22:00.128 And that was something they're calling LLMD. 00:22:00.368 --> 00:22:04.268 Reasoning models produce far more tokens as they think. 00:22:04.608 --> 00:22:09.828 So just as Red Hat pioneered the open enterprise by transforming Linux into 00:22:09.828 --> 00:22:17.928 the bedrock of modern IT, we're now poised to architect the future of AI inference. 00:22:17.928 --> 00:22:27.328 Red Hat's answer to this challenge is LLMD, a new open-source project we've just launched today. 00:22:33.808 --> 00:22:40.588 LLMD's vision is to amplify the power of VLM to transcend from single-server 00:22:40.588 --> 00:22:45.668 limitations to enable distributed inference at scale for production. 00:22:45.668 --> 00:22:51.588 Using the orchestration prowess of Kubernetes, LMD integrates advanced inference 00:22:51.588 --> 00:22:54.868 capabilities into existing enterprise IT fabrics. 00:22:55.268 --> 00:23:00.628 We're bringing distributed inference to VLM where the output tokens generated 00:23:00.628 --> 00:23:06.168 from a single inference request can now be generated by multiple accelerators 00:23:06.168 --> 00:23:07.508 across the entire cluster. 00:23:08.278 --> 00:23:11.978 So congratulations to all of you. You came here to learn about the future of 00:23:11.978 --> 00:23:18.038 Linux, and now you know what disaggregated pre-filled decode for autoregressive transformers is. 00:23:18.038 --> 00:23:22.358 It's actually a really significant contribution. So you could think of it as 00:23:22.358 --> 00:23:27.378 you submit a job to an LLM and then this system sort of sorts out the best backend 00:23:27.378 --> 00:23:31.598 execution based on resources, the type of job, the accelerator you might need. 00:23:32.358 --> 00:23:38.198 So it's taking something that is a real single pipeline and breaking it up with 00:23:38.198 --> 00:23:41.538 all of this backend flexibility. Here's how they describe it on the GitHub readme. 00:23:42.078 --> 00:23:46.318 LLMD is a Kubernetes native distributed inference serving stack, 00:23:46.498 --> 00:23:50.818 a well-lit path for anyone to serve large language models at scale with the 00:23:50.818 --> 00:23:54.858 fastest time to value and competitive performance per dollar for most models 00:23:54.858 --> 00:23:56.718 across most hardware accelerators. 00:23:56.718 --> 00:24:00.258 So bringing that home and, you know, what it actually means in a practical sense 00:24:00.258 --> 00:24:03.818 for like a small business like myself, it would be maybe we have a few jobs 00:24:03.818 --> 00:24:06.858 that run on Olama locally on our LAN hardware. 00:24:07.038 --> 00:24:10.318 But every now and then we have a big job and we want to execute that out on 00:24:10.318 --> 00:24:13.778 cloud infrastructure. And this can help us do all of that and, 00:24:13.898 --> 00:24:14.838 you know, the orchestration of it. 00:24:14.918 --> 00:24:18.198 So it's actually, it's a pretty significant contribution and it works with VLM, 00:24:18.358 --> 00:24:21.158 which we'll talk about more later or now. 00:24:21.158 --> 00:24:24.418 No, no, I was just going to say it is a big contribution and, 00:24:24.418 --> 00:24:27.598 you know, Red Hat's playing a huge part, but they also list right here folks 00:24:27.598 --> 00:24:30.818 like CoreWeave, Google, IBM Research, of course, as well as NVIDIA. 00:24:31.018 --> 00:24:34.558 Yeah, yeah. And there's been some news about AMD's interest and involvement 00:24:34.558 --> 00:24:40.498 as well. And the NVIDIA involvement is particularly interesting to me because 00:24:40.498 --> 00:24:44.218 this doesn't serve NVIDIA in selling more hardware. 00:24:44.458 --> 00:24:48.798 This project actually enables people to distribute workloads to other things 00:24:48.798 --> 00:24:51.438 that are not NVIDIA hardware, that are cheaper things when not needed. 00:24:51.498 --> 00:24:56.758 And so it's pretty interesting to see NVIDIA actually engage in this process. I get why AMD is. 00:24:57.440 --> 00:25:00.460 But it's interesting to see NVIDIA engaged, even though it kind of, 00:25:00.460 --> 00:25:01.920 in a way, eats away at their hardware mode. 00:25:02.080 --> 00:25:06.020 And I think it's exactly things like that that are maybe drawing some of the 00:25:06.020 --> 00:25:08.640 parallels to the Linux evolution that we've been talking about. 00:25:08.640 --> 00:25:12.020 Yeah, and so the behind-the-scenes conversations I had with Red Hat staff is 00:25:12.020 --> 00:25:14.220 essentially, this is where the users are. 00:25:14.560 --> 00:25:17.620 NVIDIA is doing this because their customers are asking them to, 00:25:17.840 --> 00:25:20.900 just like their customers asked them to support Linux years ago. 00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:22.420 So, yeah, that's the parallel there. 00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:25.480 So it was a long keynote. I'm not going to lie. It was two hours. 00:25:25.640 --> 00:25:27.920 And there we what we just shared with you were some of the highlights. 00:25:28.060 --> 00:25:31.820 But there are also moments where, you know, they're trying to address multiple 00:25:31.820 --> 00:25:33.740 audiences. You have your technical people there. 00:25:33.840 --> 00:25:36.940 You have your sales people there. You have your chief technology officers there. 00:25:37.140 --> 00:25:41.600 And so in one keynote, they're trying to speak to all of these different diverse 00:25:41.600 --> 00:25:44.080 audiences that just don't really get the same messaging. 00:25:44.300 --> 00:25:47.660 And so you'd often have guests come up on stage that kind of essentially say 00:25:47.660 --> 00:25:52.660 roughly the same thing. And it gets really business jargon heavy because you're 00:25:52.660 --> 00:25:53.740 speaking to that audience. 00:25:54.100 --> 00:25:58.860 So we sat there for a while listening to a lot of that and then also interspersed 00:25:58.860 --> 00:26:00.880 with like these really interesting technical moments. 00:26:01.020 --> 00:26:04.000 We just stepped out of the keynote. This was the big keynote. 00:26:04.140 --> 00:26:06.140 There will be a keynote every day, but this was the big one. 00:26:06.260 --> 00:26:07.460 It was a two hour chonker. 00:26:07.860 --> 00:26:11.640 And we got Red Hat Enterprise 10, which is pretty great. 00:26:11.840 --> 00:26:15.340 And image mode was a big part of that. There was essentially four key things 00:26:15.340 --> 00:26:19.640 that they listed that they're really excited about RHEL 10. And I think image 00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:22.600 mode is what they led with, and it was probably the one that stuck with me the most. 00:26:22.800 --> 00:26:26.200 They talked about how vendors like Visa want to be able to update their infrastructure 00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:27.500 as if it was a smartphone. 00:26:28.040 --> 00:26:32.640 And just flip a switch, and they've got the new updates, and it'll streamline updating security. 00:26:32.820 --> 00:26:36.240 And I'm actually here for it. I hope it makes RHEL a little more maintainable 00:26:36.240 --> 00:26:38.100 for shops that are deploying it. 00:26:38.560 --> 00:26:40.920 But of course, for years... 00:26:41.794 --> 00:26:45.434 Two in a row, the big topic was artificial intelligence. 00:26:45.974 --> 00:26:50.034 And AI was really baked into everything. 00:26:50.374 --> 00:26:55.494 And I'm just curious, Brent, as a first-timer, what your impression of all of the AI talk was. 00:26:55.574 --> 00:27:01.054 Because, I mean, you just can't prepare a guy for this much AI talk. The scale of the AI. 00:27:01.494 --> 00:27:06.854 I did notice that they basically took each of their products and added AI on 00:27:06.854 --> 00:27:08.674 the end of it, which I didn't expect. 00:27:08.674 --> 00:27:12.534 And nobody really addressed that. but they're just sort of spreading the ai 00:27:12.534 --> 00:27:18.494 throughout i think maybe that's a more of a strategic plan to i don't know be 00:27:18.494 --> 00:27:23.714 part of the future um but i'm curious how that dilutes the current products 00:27:23.714 --> 00:27:28.154 or where they're headed with it it is a lot of brands now to keep track of, 00:27:28.854 --> 00:27:33.714 and like i said we're in year two of this and i'm not 100 convinced that all 00:27:33.714 --> 00:27:37.014 of the people watching in that room actually have the needs they're addressing 00:27:37.014 --> 00:27:38.554 up on stage i think some people do. 00:27:39.374 --> 00:27:43.714 Airlines and Visa, I think they do. But I'm not sure everyone in that room was 00:27:43.714 --> 00:27:48.694 really feeling the urgent pressure to deploy AI to get a return on investment 00:27:48.694 --> 00:27:51.774 or total cost of ownership lowered for whatever they might have. 00:27:52.194 --> 00:27:56.494 And that's not to say that Red Hat doesn't seem to have found a more refined 00:27:56.494 --> 00:27:58.154 focus for their AI implementation. 00:27:58.514 --> 00:28:02.114 I think year two of this AI focus is actually a lot more practical. 00:28:02.114 --> 00:28:05.014 It's about shrinking the size of some of these models. 00:28:05.234 --> 00:28:09.954 It does seem like they've found a few areas that they can bring some of the 00:28:09.954 --> 00:28:10.934 special Red Hat sauce to. 00:28:12.366 --> 00:28:15.386 Yeah, you know, okay, I think you're right that there are definitely questions 00:28:15.386 --> 00:28:20.406 around, is there this low-hanging fruit of, like, you got to meet this AI need, 00:28:20.506 --> 00:28:22.906 AI can do it today, you just have to figure out how to deploy it? 00:28:22.986 --> 00:28:27.746 Yes, for some, everywhere, maybe an open question. But I do think you have to give Red Hat credit. 00:28:27.946 --> 00:28:30.466 Like, if you were trying to, if you are solving that problem, 00:28:30.566 --> 00:28:33.486 they have a lot of nice things in the works from, like you're saying, 00:28:33.606 --> 00:28:37.166 right, like quantized and optimized models that you can just get from Hugging 00:28:37.166 --> 00:28:41.406 Face or via catalog in your Red Hat integrated products. 00:28:41.886 --> 00:28:47.446 They've also been talking a lot about VLLM and turning that via the new LLMD 00:28:47.446 --> 00:28:49.286 into a distributed solution, right? 00:28:49.366 --> 00:28:53.046 So now you can do inference that isn't just running from a single process. 00:28:53.046 --> 00:28:55.886 It's doing inference across your whole cluster of GPUs. 00:28:56.086 --> 00:29:02.086 And, you know, we saw folks today from Intel and AMD and, of course, NVIDIA. 00:29:02.086 --> 00:29:07.066 But it's nice to see, at least, whether or not you're really using it in your 00:29:07.066 --> 00:29:10.106 business, if you were to, that you would, in the future at least, 00:29:10.106 --> 00:29:14.546 have real options, not only between different models, but also different accelerators, as they put it. 00:29:14.786 --> 00:29:18.126 That distributed model stuff you were talking about, that was an opportunity 00:29:18.126 --> 00:29:19.806 for them to bring Google up on stage. 00:29:20.046 --> 00:29:23.606 And the comment was, Google was our partner in crime in creating this. 00:29:23.786 --> 00:29:27.346 So really leaning Microsoft Azure got a mention up on stage. 00:29:27.986 --> 00:29:32.046 So they're trying to present themselves as a vendor-neutral AI solution. 00:29:32.246 --> 00:29:35.066 And when I say trying to present, I think they are doing it. 00:29:35.166 --> 00:29:36.046 They're doing it successfully. 00:29:36.506 --> 00:29:40.246 So if someone out there is in this market, I mean, Red Hat is killing it. 00:29:40.406 --> 00:29:42.906 But for me, as somebody who's looking at the more practicals, 00:29:43.126 --> 00:29:45.226 RHEL 10 is it, right? You get... 00:29:45.908 --> 00:29:48.868 Improved security, you get image mode. And the other thing that they talked 00:29:48.868 --> 00:29:52.448 about, almost as if it was new, is virtualization. 00:29:53.248 --> 00:29:59.028 RHEL 10 is clearly making a pitch to shops that want to migrate off VMware. Did you catch this too? 00:29:59.408 --> 00:30:04.128 Oh, yeah. I mean, the whole product offering and really the rise of OpenShift 00:30:04.128 --> 00:30:06.408 virtualization, you know, it's not necessarily net new. 00:30:06.648 --> 00:30:11.488 And things like KubeVirt have been around for a while to let you run VMs as containers. 00:30:12.408 --> 00:30:16.548 But they didn't quite come out and say the word Broadcom. But you got the feeling, 00:30:16.548 --> 00:30:18.688 you could tell there were stories around like, oh, a year ago, 00:30:18.748 --> 00:30:21.648 we really needed to modernize or look into our virtualization spend. 00:30:22.568 --> 00:30:25.448 And last year, there was a lot of talk about the potentials, 00:30:25.528 --> 00:30:26.348 I think, at Summit, right? 00:30:26.408 --> 00:30:28.848 And folks were talking about OpenShift being well positioned. 00:30:28.848 --> 00:30:33.008 And this year was a bit of a, let's show you all the successful customers now 00:30:33.008 --> 00:30:36.968 deploying and have migrated or are in the process of successfully migrating 00:30:36.968 --> 00:30:40.508 to an OpenShift and a Kubernetes-based virtualization platform. 00:30:40.508 --> 00:30:45.488 And we even saw like a variant of OpenShift announced that is basically just 00:30:45.488 --> 00:30:49.768 OpenShift tailored for only running VMs. So that's that's full circle. 00:30:50.008 --> 00:30:53.588 The Emirates Bank was up on stage. I think they mentioned they had something 00:30:53.588 --> 00:30:57.928 like 9500 and 9800 virtual machines running under OpenShift virtualization. 00:30:58.348 --> 00:31:03.248 And they also announced the OpenShift cloud virtualization is available on all 00:31:03.248 --> 00:31:06.588 major cloud platforms, including Azure and Oracle. 00:31:07.328 --> 00:31:11.788 Wow. So when you think you've got a solution that works on-premises and something 00:31:11.788 --> 00:31:15.848 you can easily offload to the cloud, it actually kind of left me feeling like 00:31:15.848 --> 00:31:19.328 we need to play around with OpenShift virtualization and just kind of wrap our heads around it. 00:31:19.888 --> 00:31:22.648 Just give me your Oracle API key. We'll get started. Okay. 00:31:23.403 --> 00:31:27.583 And I wasn't kidding either. I really felt like they made a good pitch for Real10 00:31:27.583 --> 00:31:31.243 and the OpenShift virtualization platform. I think it's something we are going 00:31:31.243 --> 00:31:33.683 to experiment more with and get more hands-on experience. 00:31:33.883 --> 00:31:39.603 It was actually a good, solid product. We got a hands-on demo for the press 00:31:39.603 --> 00:31:41.203 that they went through the dashboard. 00:31:41.463 --> 00:31:44.803 And it looked just as easy to use as Proxmox. 00:31:44.823 --> 00:31:47.463 Or if anybody's familiar with the later iterations of VMware, 00:31:47.643 --> 00:31:52.243 ESX, and things like that, it really sort of met those expectations as far as 00:31:52.243 --> 00:31:54.403 management and dashboard went. It looked good. 00:31:54.563 --> 00:31:58.663 Yeah, you can tell it works really well if you have an existing sort of containers 00:31:58.663 --> 00:32:01.023 workflow in OpenShift and you want to add virtualization. 00:32:01.243 --> 00:32:04.523 But now they're even targeting it for folks that maybe haven't yet tried out 00:32:04.523 --> 00:32:07.383 OpenShift, but they're looking for a virtualization solution and you can get 00:32:07.383 --> 00:32:10.363 yourself an OpenShift cluster pretty much just tailored to run virtualization. 00:32:10.523 --> 00:32:13.023 And then maybe later you expand down to containers too. 00:32:13.343 --> 00:32:17.823 So there was something that really got my attention and I am thrilled to see 00:32:17.823 --> 00:32:22.903 Red Hat pushing further down this path. and you see it also becoming really 00:32:22.903 --> 00:32:24.603 popular with Fedora Silverblue. 00:32:24.783 --> 00:32:30.523 You see it with Bluefin and Bazite and the UBlue universe of operating systems. 00:32:30.983 --> 00:32:36.023 It's using images to manage and deploy your infrastructure to get immutability. 00:32:36.383 --> 00:32:39.723 And Image Mode is something that Red Hat is focused on. They're taking Bootsy 00:32:39.723 --> 00:32:40.683 and they're bringing it even further. 00:32:40.743 --> 00:32:45.043 And we had an opportunity to sit down with the product manager of Image Mode 00:32:45.043 --> 00:32:47.363 for RHEL and we got all the inside deets. 00:32:47.503 --> 00:32:51.743 Well, I'm standing here with Ben and he's the product manager for ImageMode for RHEL. 00:32:51.943 --> 00:32:55.503 And I asked him to try to give us the elevator pitch of what ImageMode is. 00:32:55.743 --> 00:32:59.863 Yeah, well, that's a great question. So, okay, we know containers, 00:33:00.043 --> 00:33:03.543 right? We've been building containers for applications for a decade now. 00:33:04.003 --> 00:33:06.883 All the same ways that you build containers and manage them, 00:33:06.983 --> 00:33:09.223 we now can do that for full operating systems. 00:33:10.008 --> 00:33:13.688 We're going to change one important detail, right? We all know a Docker container, 00:33:13.688 --> 00:33:15.808 it's going to share the kernel, right? 00:33:16.248 --> 00:33:19.548 Well, these base images that we use for this, they're now bootable containers. 00:33:19.608 --> 00:33:23.508 So the kernel is going to live and be versioned in that container, right? 00:33:23.628 --> 00:33:26.248 And so now we're going to take that, we're going to write it to Metal, 00:33:26.408 --> 00:33:28.708 we're going to write it to the VM or cloud instance, whatever. 00:33:29.108 --> 00:33:32.288 And now that server is going to update from the container registry. 00:33:32.428 --> 00:33:37.428 So now all of your container build pipelines, whatever automation you're using 00:33:37.428 --> 00:33:40.948 for testing verification, Now you can do that for operating systems. 00:33:41.128 --> 00:33:45.968 So it's really the same tooling, tool set, language, same everything for your 00:33:45.968 --> 00:33:48.568 applications you can now use for your operating system. 00:33:48.988 --> 00:33:53.828 So the world we're living in is complicated enough. It's only getting more complicated. 00:33:53.828 --> 00:33:59.828 So anything we can do to simplify and reuse and just get people to value faster is the way to do it. 00:33:59.908 --> 00:34:02.568 And that's what you get with ImageModule for REL. 00:34:02.808 --> 00:34:08.888 That does sound very nice. So how are you booting an image? Is this BootSea involved here? Yes. 00:34:09.068 --> 00:34:12.488 BootSea is the core of the technology, which stands for Boot Container. 00:34:13.068 --> 00:34:18.148 It's the magic that, like, kind of closes the gap between the tarball that your 00:34:18.148 --> 00:34:20.388 container image is and, like, the system. 00:34:20.788 --> 00:34:24.048 It gives you, like, an AB boot feel to the system, right? 00:34:24.108 --> 00:34:26.368 So when you update, you stage the next one in the background, 00:34:26.368 --> 00:34:29.768 and you can reboot, and now you're in the new one, right? So, 00:34:30.108 --> 00:34:33.668 Bootsy is the core of this and the core command line when you need to update 00:34:33.668 --> 00:34:38.008 the image or switch to a different one or reprovision the system. So, yeah. 00:34:38.408 --> 00:34:42.668 And Bootsy went into the CNCF. It's a sandbox project now. We're working on 00:34:42.668 --> 00:34:45.848 getting the incubator status. So, yeah. That's the... 00:34:46.548 --> 00:34:50.868 My recollection is that we got Bootsy at the last summit. Bootsy was announced. 00:34:51.048 --> 00:34:53.448 So has this been kind of in the works since that announcement? 00:34:53.768 --> 00:34:56.748 Yeah, exactly. So we did a big announcement last year. 00:34:56.968 --> 00:35:00.848 Since then, we've been working with a lot of customers on getting them to production, 00:35:00.848 --> 00:35:04.328 right? We just had one mentioned in the keynote. We had another one speaking yesterday. 00:35:04.568 --> 00:35:07.028 I don't know if I can say names on this, so I'm not going to leave it out. 00:35:08.088 --> 00:35:13.548 But I don't know. It was great. We have another one speaking later today. 00:35:13.728 --> 00:35:16.288 And then one of the hyperscalers is demoing it right now. 00:35:16.908 --> 00:35:21.928 So, yeah, I would say just the traction we're seeing has been awesome. 00:35:22.088 --> 00:35:26.128 So it definitely feels like that fit to where it's the right tech at the right 00:35:26.128 --> 00:35:28.108 time for people to be using it. 00:35:28.288 --> 00:35:30.948 Yeah, I'm curious. I felt like when we kind of heard stuff last year, 00:35:31.068 --> 00:35:34.188 it was co-announced or at least sort of pitched a bit as being motivated by, 00:35:34.188 --> 00:35:37.428 like, faster problems specifically around AI workloads. 00:35:37.568 --> 00:35:39.928 You know, like, here's this new mode of operations we think would be a really 00:35:39.928 --> 00:35:41.528 good fit. But I'm curious. 00:35:42.188 --> 00:35:44.688 Last year, we heard a lot of sort of like, okay, we're starting there, 00:35:44.788 --> 00:35:47.968 but we think the applicability is a lot broader, and I'm wondering if that's 00:35:47.968 --> 00:35:49.888 kind of showing out in customer adoption. 00:35:50.748 --> 00:35:55.628 It's way broader. I think I almost look at this just kind of an image flow is 00:35:55.628 --> 00:35:58.508 very general purpose, right, is where you can get to quite quickly. 00:35:59.668 --> 00:36:04.748 So, yes, it's still very relevant for AI. REL AI actually ships as a Bootsy 00:36:04.748 --> 00:36:06.668 image, right, and we run it that way. 00:36:06.668 --> 00:36:12.388 I would say one of the big values there is anytime you're connecting a complicated 00:36:12.388 --> 00:36:16.128 stack, I'm versioning a kernel, kernel modules, different frameworks, 00:36:16.268 --> 00:36:20.268 libraries, where it's a Jenga stack, which a lot of AI looks like these days. 00:36:20.608 --> 00:36:23.628 Building with containers solves a huge amount of versioning problems. 00:36:23.748 --> 00:36:27.488 We want to get people out of the state where I DNF update a package and, 00:36:27.708 --> 00:36:31.248 oh, now my storage doesn't work because there's a lag over there. 00:36:33.188 --> 00:36:36.448 No, if the build fails, it'll never hit your server. 00:36:37.555 --> 00:36:41.395 This is, when you use containers, that just becomes so easy, right? 00:36:41.535 --> 00:36:46.115 Again, it's about going back to simplifying all the complexity we have and getting 00:36:46.115 --> 00:36:48.095 to value is the whole thing, right? 00:36:48.435 --> 00:36:51.535 I'm just curious, what does it look like, you know, for folks maybe who have 00:36:51.535 --> 00:36:54.775 never tried image mode but have experienced regular RHEL deployments, 00:36:55.055 --> 00:36:58.815 how do you get started with, like, a new system that's full-on image ready? 00:36:59.455 --> 00:37:02.595 Great question. So there's different paths. 00:37:02.795 --> 00:37:05.495 It depends on your environment. So the answer may change a little bit depending 00:37:05.495 --> 00:37:10.375 on what your needs are. But in general, I think Podman Desktop is probably the easiest tool. 00:37:10.635 --> 00:37:14.495 It's no cost. It runs on any platform. So if you're working on a Mac or Windows, 00:37:15.175 --> 00:37:18.075 we'd love to upgrade you to RHEL. But, you know, we get it, right? 00:37:18.235 --> 00:37:20.595 So you can put this on. There's a Bootsy extension. 00:37:20.995 --> 00:37:24.855 You can build containers. You can convert them to images. You can boot them 00:37:24.855 --> 00:37:27.295 as a VM, all from Podman Desktop. It's amazing. 00:37:27.755 --> 00:37:33.215 I use that today. Now, I immediately then switch to versioning everything in Git. 00:37:33.395 --> 00:37:35.835 And I have GitHub Actions as everything. 00:37:36.215 --> 00:37:40.595 So my good buddy Matt here and some other colleagues put together templates 00:37:40.595 --> 00:37:42.995 for all the big CI CD systems. 00:37:43.175 --> 00:37:46.575 So if you want to just get started with, say, you do GitHub Actions, 00:37:46.815 --> 00:37:51.515 GitLab CI, Jenkins, Tecton, Ansible, you get the idea. It's infrastructure agnostic, 00:37:51.615 --> 00:37:52.235 right, is the whole thing. 00:37:52.375 --> 00:37:55.155 We've got all the templates. Clone the one. It's so easy. 00:37:55.355 --> 00:37:58.875 So we kind of have a good path if you want to work locally or if you want to 00:37:58.875 --> 00:38:00.355 work in, like, a Git model. 00:38:00.635 --> 00:38:03.455 Those are the two paths I would steer you towards. 00:38:04.915 --> 00:38:09.295 Given Bootsy and ImageMode are relatively new, what are the challenges coming 00:38:09.295 --> 00:38:10.815 up that your team's going to be working on? 00:38:12.095 --> 00:38:17.615 Well, we've got a big roadmap. We're adding more security capabilities. 00:38:18.195 --> 00:38:21.675 You know, I mean, there's multiple ways to answer your question. 00:38:21.735 --> 00:38:25.015 But let me talk about security, right? Because this is forward-looking stuff here. 00:38:25.955 --> 00:38:29.875 We have all the pieces, and we're working on stitching them together. 00:38:29.875 --> 00:38:33.315 Because what we want to do is the way you sign applications with like cosine 00:38:33.315 --> 00:38:34.495 for your container image. 00:38:34.715 --> 00:38:39.735 We can have the same basic key insert, actually inject that into firmware, 00:38:39.935 --> 00:38:42.735 if it's UEFI or inject it into the cloud image, right? 00:38:42.835 --> 00:38:46.375 And then from there, we can have a post-process step on your container that 00:38:46.375 --> 00:38:51.035 makes a UK unified kernel image, right? That is signed, we get full measure boot. 00:38:51.255 --> 00:38:58.275 And then the root FS of that container, that digest is in the UKI as well. 00:38:58.275 --> 00:39:04.275 So, if your root file system gets modified at all, it's the holy grail security 00:39:04.275 --> 00:39:06.735 story, that tamper-proof OS that we've been chasing. 00:39:06.955 --> 00:39:11.815 So, Bootsy gives us all the things we need to stitch that together in the Linux and make it easy. 00:39:11.935 --> 00:39:14.575 Because today this stuff is possible, but you have to be like, 00:39:14.715 --> 00:39:17.635 there's like five people on Earth that can do it today, right? 00:39:17.755 --> 00:39:20.515 And I want, like, me to be able to do it, right? 00:39:20.755 --> 00:39:23.095 And so, we're pretty close. 00:39:24.196 --> 00:39:28.416 My goal, again, is forward-looking statements, so all that. 00:39:28.596 --> 00:39:34.056 But I hope next year at Summit that's what we're talking about and everyone is like, wow. 00:39:34.676 --> 00:39:38.196 That'd be great. I'd love to catch up at next Summit and see how it went. Thanks, Ben. 00:39:38.576 --> 00:39:43.096 I'm particularly interested in Red Hat adopting this further because it brings 00:39:43.096 --> 00:39:47.396 a lot of what I like about NixOS and what I like about Bluefin and Bazite, 00:39:47.436 --> 00:39:53.556 but it brings it to the enterprise operating system and it could solve so many problems. 00:39:54.456 --> 00:39:57.176 And you guys know I've talked about this, but the other reason why I kind of 00:39:57.176 --> 00:40:01.396 like this approach that they're doing is while it is a top-down system, 00:40:02.016 --> 00:40:05.396 it is leaning into workflows that people already understand. 00:40:05.396 --> 00:40:09.336 They're already deploying containers. They're already using GitHub Actions or 00:40:09.336 --> 00:40:10.436 whatever they're using locally. 00:40:12.156 --> 00:40:17.376 There's tens of thousands of DevOps engineers out there that could start deploying 00:40:17.376 --> 00:40:20.156 their own custom bespoke Linux systems. 00:40:20.676 --> 00:40:24.336 And this is why I got into Gentoo back in the days, because I needed very bespoke 00:40:24.336 --> 00:40:27.436 custom systems, and there was no tooling around this. There was nothing. 00:40:27.796 --> 00:40:32.396 I didn't really have a lot of options, so I went with Gentoo 100 years ago to 00:40:32.396 --> 00:40:35.716 build these really bespoke custom systems that then I would manage and orchestrate 00:40:35.716 --> 00:40:38.596 from this crazy scripting thing that I had set up. 00:40:38.696 --> 00:40:43.656 But this brings this to everybody using systems that are maintainable with Red 00:40:43.656 --> 00:40:47.196 Hat's backing and their whole CYA when it comes to certifications, 00:40:47.336 --> 00:40:48.656 licensing, compliance. 00:40:49.196 --> 00:40:52.376 I mean, it just makes me think other ecosystem here, but think about setting 00:40:52.376 --> 00:40:57.376 up a bootstrap system for just going from the base up, trying to get that going. 00:40:57.636 --> 00:41:02.056 And then for an RPM style, it's going to be different. And for an arch system, 00:41:02.216 --> 00:41:03.576 it's like packstrap or whatever. 00:41:03.796 --> 00:41:06.116 And there's all these different things. And then in this new world, 00:41:06.676 --> 00:41:10.196 you just change what base image you pull from. And it's just so much simpler. 00:41:10.736 --> 00:41:14.996 As somebody who used to really, really get frustrated managing systems where 00:41:14.996 --> 00:41:19.436 your only options were RPMs and maybe, you know, an RPM repo that got you what 00:41:19.436 --> 00:41:21.456 you need. This is just such a huge land shift. 00:41:22.456 --> 00:41:24.136 And it was nice to be able to pick Ben's brain. 00:41:25.456 --> 00:41:33.056 One question I ended up having in all of this is how old are these new packages? 00:41:33.276 --> 00:41:38.356 Like, REL10 just came out, but, you know, in Enterprise things are slightly 00:41:38.356 --> 00:41:41.576 more glacial than, let's say, Nix OS, which we visited last week. 00:41:42.656 --> 00:41:46.356 So what are we looking at here, boys? Like, what does REL10 actually have under the hood? 00:41:46.716 --> 00:41:50.756 Well, I believe it was branched off from Fedora 41. 00:41:51.756 --> 00:41:57.556 I think during the beta, maybe there was a 6.11 kernel, but it's shipping with Linux kernel 6.12. 00:41:57.816 --> 00:41:59.816 And then I believe GNOME 47... 00:42:02.240 --> 00:42:07.160 We also got DNF5 in Fedora 41, which is probably a big change. 00:42:07.540 --> 00:42:10.920 When you look back at the Fedora releases, you can see, oh, Red Hat was trying 00:42:10.920 --> 00:42:12.980 to get this pipe wire milestone in. 00:42:13.080 --> 00:42:16.900 Red Hat was trying to get this DNF milestone in because ultimately that became RHEL. 00:42:17.060 --> 00:42:19.540 And sometimes you see these things get packed into a Fedora release for that 00:42:19.540 --> 00:42:21.920 reason. And DNF5 is great. 00:42:22.180 --> 00:42:24.920 So, you know, for the parts where you're maybe not doing it with image mode, 00:42:25.060 --> 00:42:29.700 that will be killer. And also Boot C initially shipped in Fedora 41. 00:42:29.980 --> 00:42:32.940 So there you go. See, to me, it's like, if you like Fedora 41, 00:42:33.160 --> 00:42:35.920 well, now you get that in RHEL. It's basically Fedora 41 LTS, 00:42:36.240 --> 00:42:37.420 which is kind of appealing. 00:42:37.540 --> 00:42:39.900 You get Kenome 47 or KDE 6.2. 00:42:40.080 --> 00:42:45.500 You know, I had just a quick thought here on image mode and if it sees wider deployment. 00:42:45.640 --> 00:42:48.620 One small benefit of the approach, maybe it's a big benefit, 00:42:49.020 --> 00:42:52.540 is the AB style and rollbacks that this really easily enables. 00:42:52.540 --> 00:42:56.520 And I was just thinking, you know, when we've seen recent issues, 00:42:56.940 --> 00:43:00.620 big problems with Windows deployments in the enterprise, where maybe something 00:43:00.620 --> 00:43:05.780 like a quick, easy boot, undo, boot into the last version rollback would have 00:43:05.780 --> 00:43:08.400 saved just billions of dollars of agony. 00:43:08.540 --> 00:43:12.340 And we know, right, like RHEL is deployed at or above the scale of Windows in 00:43:12.340 --> 00:43:16.740 these types of backend enterprise applications. So this could be huge. And I think so. 00:43:16.860 --> 00:43:21.240 I think it's so monumental that it's making me seriously consider the Red Hat 00:43:21.240 --> 00:43:26.000 ecosystem for what I do, for what we do. Whoa. Yeah, we'll get into it. 00:43:28.900 --> 00:43:34.580 1password.com slash unplugged. Now, imagine your company's security kind of 00:43:34.580 --> 00:43:35.960 like the quad of a college campus. 00:43:36.600 --> 00:43:40.900 Okay, you've got these nice, ideal, designed paths between the buildings. 00:43:40.900 --> 00:43:45.680 That's your company-owned devices and applications. IT has managed all of it 00:43:45.680 --> 00:43:48.100 and curated it, even your employee identities. 00:43:48.620 --> 00:43:54.080 And then you have these other paths. These are the ones people actually use, 00:43:54.140 --> 00:43:55.660 the ones that are worn through the grass. 00:43:57.163 --> 00:44:01.743 And actually, if we're honest with ourselves, they are the straightest line from point A to point B. 00:44:01.883 --> 00:44:06.383 Those are your unmanaged devices, your shadow IT apps, your non-employee identities 00:44:06.383 --> 00:44:09.183 like me, a contractor. I used to come in and be one of those. 00:44:09.403 --> 00:44:12.863 I was always shocked because they're not designed to work with the grass paths. 00:44:13.043 --> 00:44:15.643 They're designed to work with the company approved paths. 00:44:16.403 --> 00:44:20.003 That's how these systems were built back in the day. And the reality is a lot 00:44:20.003 --> 00:44:23.663 of security problems take place on the shortcuts the past users have created. 00:44:23.663 --> 00:44:27.223 That's where 1Password Extended Access Management comes in. 00:44:27.303 --> 00:44:30.003 It's the first security solution that brings all these unmanaged devices, 00:44:30.223 --> 00:44:32.763 apps, and identities under your control. 00:44:32.883 --> 00:44:35.223 It ensures that every user credential is strong and protected, 00:44:35.423 --> 00:44:38.143 every device is known and healthy, and every app is visible. 00:44:38.723 --> 00:44:42.263 The truth is 1Password Extended Access Management just solves the problems traditional 00:44:42.263 --> 00:44:44.103 IEMs and MDMs weren't built to touch. 00:44:44.243 --> 00:44:47.703 It is security for the way we actually work today. And it's generally available 00:44:47.703 --> 00:44:51.743 for companies that have Okta, Microsoft Entra, and it's in beta for Google Workspace 00:44:51.743 --> 00:44:56.083 customers as well. You know what a difference good password hygiene made in a company. 00:44:56.243 --> 00:44:57.823 Now imagine zooming out and applying 00:44:57.823 --> 00:45:02.043 that to the entire organization with 1Password's award-winning recipe. 00:45:02.823 --> 00:45:05.843 1Password is the way to go. Secure every app, every device, and every identity, 00:45:06.043 --> 00:45:09.663 even those unmanaged ones. Go to 1Password.com slash unplugged. 00:45:09.763 --> 00:45:13.963 That's all lowercase. It's the number 1Password.com slash unplugged. 00:45:17.063 --> 00:45:21.723 Now, if we hadn't had enough of two days of interesting stuff, 00:45:21.723 --> 00:45:23.783 that was a third day with a brand new keynote. 00:45:24.183 --> 00:45:27.023 Well, here we go. It's day three. We're walking to the keynote right now. 00:45:27.143 --> 00:45:30.083 I don't know what to expect because all the big announcements like RHEL 10 and 00:45:30.083 --> 00:45:32.183 things like that were announced yesterday. 00:45:32.623 --> 00:45:35.423 So I'm kind of going in blank, not sure what to expect. 00:45:36.043 --> 00:45:40.223 We'll find out together. One thing they came back around during the keynote 00:45:40.223 --> 00:45:44.743 on day three was the security enhancements in Red Hat Enterprise Linux. 00:45:44.983 --> 00:45:48.463 And there is one particular area they really focused on. 00:45:48.643 --> 00:45:53.983 Please welcome Red Hat Senior Vice President and Chief Product Officer, Ashesh Badani. 00:45:54.800 --> 00:46:03.760 Music. 00:46:05.303 --> 00:46:06.343 REL 10. 00:46:08.763 --> 00:46:14.803 REL 10 is the biggest leap forward in Linux in over a decade. 00:46:16.083 --> 00:46:22.823 And we didn't just get here accidentally. two decades of server innovations. 00:46:23.863 --> 00:46:30.303 Virtualization, containers, public clouds, and each and every stage, 00:46:31.483 --> 00:46:35.743 RHEL has been the enterprise Linux standard. 00:46:36.963 --> 00:46:43.843 And now, the AI era is here. And around the world, there are uncertainties. 00:46:45.083 --> 00:46:49.923 But in a world of uncertainties, one thing is certain. 00:46:51.163 --> 00:46:56.343 Yeah, that's good. That sells it. Now there was of course the. 00:46:57.955 --> 00:47:01.315 Just general positioning of RHEL, right? It's an AI-first distribution, 00:47:01.315 --> 00:47:05.215 but also it is a post-quantum encryption distribution. 00:47:05.455 --> 00:47:09.715 That's a mouthful. We've talked a little bit about post-quantum cryptography. 00:47:10.475 --> 00:47:12.135 Let's go into that in some more detail. 00:47:13.175 --> 00:47:17.455 Can you tell us about the impact of quantum computing, which I'm sure the audience 00:47:17.455 --> 00:47:21.615 is really interested in, and why we need to prepare for a post-quantum future? 00:47:22.315 --> 00:47:27.715 Sure. So in the not-so-distant future, quantum computers will be more readily available. 00:47:27.955 --> 00:47:32.715 And they'll be leveraged by bad actors to break today's encryption technologies. 00:47:33.135 --> 00:47:37.895 When that happens, sensitive data will no longer be considered safe. 00:47:38.435 --> 00:47:43.895 But organizations like NIST and the IETF are already working on draft requirements 00:47:43.895 --> 00:47:47.955 and standards of what will be needed in a post-quantum world. 00:47:48.415 --> 00:47:50.395 And Red Hat is ahead of the game here. 00:47:51.075 --> 00:47:55.475 We are leaders in post-quantum security, And we've been working on those requirements 00:47:55.475 --> 00:47:59.015 to meet post-quantum cryptographic challenges for some time now. 00:47:59.555 --> 00:48:03.995 Because we know that we need to help our customers protect their data against 00:48:03.995 --> 00:48:06.455 future attacks and fulfill future regulatory requirements. 00:48:08.135 --> 00:48:11.435 REL10 has the libraries, tools, and toolchains ready. 00:48:11.595 --> 00:48:17.435 So you can rely on us when you're ready to transition and start into a post-quantum world. 00:48:17.615 --> 00:48:20.795 This is obviously early days, right? You hear the wording there, 00:48:20.975 --> 00:48:22.975 when you're ready to start transitioning. 00:48:23.455 --> 00:48:26.735 To a post-quantum world, right? These standards are very early, obviously. 00:48:27.255 --> 00:48:31.015 Yeah, I mean, we don't really even have the kind of quantum computers to really 00:48:31.015 --> 00:48:35.515 sort of test these fully out. So some very smart people have done some very 00:48:35.515 --> 00:48:40.655 clever math and devised, so far, our best takes on how we might defend against this. Yeah. 00:48:40.915 --> 00:48:43.695 And Red Hat's there if you want to, you know, try to get ahead of the game. 00:48:43.815 --> 00:48:44.595 There's two things here. 00:48:44.735 --> 00:48:48.095 So number one is they're kind of pegging to the standard. So as the standard 00:48:48.095 --> 00:48:51.355 evolves, they will likely evolve their support for it, right? 00:48:51.435 --> 00:48:53.735 So that's kind of what the real, That's a beachhead here. 00:48:54.155 --> 00:48:57.635 The second thing is you have to realize, I mean, I know you guys do, 00:48:57.695 --> 00:48:58.495 but you've got to just think, 00:48:59.891 --> 00:49:03.111 It takes 10 years sometimes for these distributions to really, 00:49:03.231 --> 00:49:06.171 these enterprise distributions, to really work their way out into the ecosystem. 00:49:06.451 --> 00:49:09.691 And so 10, 20 years from now, this could be a problem. 00:49:09.851 --> 00:49:13.891 This could be a problem 10, 20 years from now. And so if you start in RHEL 10, 00:49:14.391 --> 00:49:17.471 well, by the time people are running RHEL 13, hopefully it's in, 00:49:17.591 --> 00:49:18.571 it's baked in, and it's working. 00:49:19.231 --> 00:49:22.271 The other thing that occurred to me yesterday is you have to think about the 00:49:22.271 --> 00:49:27.071 information that you're storing today and that might get cracked, 00:49:27.271 --> 00:49:30.531 let's say, in the future by quantum stuff just because it's sitting on disk. 00:49:31.031 --> 00:49:34.031 So getting in early, I guess, is the name of the game in this case. 00:49:35.871 --> 00:49:38.331 And I'm not trying to trivialize it, but there is also, I think, 00:49:38.351 --> 00:49:42.731 real value sometimes in just having one more checkbox that may get added to 00:49:42.731 --> 00:49:45.711 security questionnaires that become standard in the coming years. That is true. 00:49:45.851 --> 00:49:48.531 Out of the box, you're good to go. You can say Linux covers this. 00:49:48.651 --> 00:49:52.251 It's not just something Microsoft is doing or whatever, or Oracle or whatever it might be. 00:49:52.371 --> 00:49:55.011 Yeah, there's a supported Linux platform that you can do that will be first 00:49:55.011 --> 00:49:55.911 class in that ecosystem. 00:49:56.171 --> 00:50:00.471 Now, day three, we wanted to just knock a couple of things off because we're at Red Hat Summit. 00:50:00.671 --> 00:50:04.851 And so we had access to folks that you just normally wouldn't have access to in person. 00:50:05.091 --> 00:50:09.291 And we wanted to chat with the outgoing Fedora project manager and the incoming 00:50:09.291 --> 00:50:14.471 Fedora project manager because both Matt and Jeff, Matthew as he likes to be 00:50:14.471 --> 00:50:16.551 called, Matthew and Jeff were at Summit. 00:50:16.551 --> 00:50:19.631 And so we went to the community section, found the Fedora booth, 00:50:19.711 --> 00:50:21.231 and got these guys to sit down. 00:50:21.391 --> 00:50:25.391 Well, I have two quite important folks here. Gentlemen, can you introduce yourselves? 00:50:26.011 --> 00:50:30.971 I'm Matthew Miller. I am the current Fedora Project leader for about two more weeks. 00:50:31.451 --> 00:50:37.911 Two weeks. And you? I'm Jeff Spoletta. I will be the Fedora Project leader in about two weeks. 00:50:38.291 --> 00:50:41.811 So I see you guys are hanging around together. Is there like a transitional 00:50:41.811 --> 00:50:44.131 period that you're spending together for this transition? 00:50:44.691 --> 00:50:52.451 Yeah, basically. Jeff started at Red Hat two weeks ago, and now we're trying to not scare him away. 00:50:52.651 --> 00:50:55.331 But maybe not doing it. I don't know. How's that going? 00:50:55.751 --> 00:51:01.211 Yeah, I basically am looking at this as I am Matthew's shadow man, 00:51:01.711 --> 00:51:05.931 as it were, as a callback to some previous branding. 00:51:06.271 --> 00:51:11.091 But yeah, I'm here for the last couple of weeks with a fire hose of just Red 00:51:11.091 --> 00:51:16.831 Hat onboarding. And this week, I'm trying to meet as many stakeholders that 00:51:16.831 --> 00:51:20.451 would like to leverage Fedora to get some innovation done. 00:51:20.611 --> 00:51:27.231 And instead of opining myself, I'm really in a mode where I'm taking in information from as many people. 00:51:27.351 --> 00:51:32.251 And part of that is getting as much headspace mapping from Matthew as I can. 00:51:32.531 --> 00:51:36.151 Yeah, like literally just taking his brain and trying to shove it into mine 00:51:36.151 --> 00:51:42.411 before Flock to when the actual handover happens. And is being here at the summit 00:51:42.411 --> 00:51:44.091 the first time you spent time together in person? 00:51:44.551 --> 00:51:49.931 Well, for many years. I've hung out with Jeff before. Jeff was active in the Fedora project. 00:51:51.060 --> 00:51:56.720 At the beginning of time, as I was, and then he went off to do real jobs and stuff. 00:51:57.920 --> 00:52:01.340 Jeff, I was going to say, why Fedora? But it sounds like you've been involved for a long time. 00:52:02.040 --> 00:52:07.060 Yeah, I was, you know, the first, I mean, eight years of the project. 00:52:07.200 --> 00:52:12.760 I mean, I was there before it was Fedora Linux, when it was Fedora US as a contributor. 00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:18.120 So I was an external contributor through the first critical period when the 00:52:18.120 --> 00:52:19.340 project was being spun up. 00:52:19.540 --> 00:52:24.860 And then I took one of those past less traveled situations in life. 00:52:24.860 --> 00:52:30.060 I went to Alaska to study the Aurora and then eventually got to the point where 00:52:30.060 --> 00:52:35.400 I was off the grid for several weeks at a time doing research and I just couldn't contribute anymore. 00:52:35.600 --> 00:52:38.660 And so I had to step away from the project, which is actually pretty interesting 00:52:38.660 --> 00:52:44.100 because I have the deep project knowledge, the foundations. I understand what 00:52:44.100 --> 00:52:45.140 the project is supposed to be. 00:52:45.520 --> 00:52:50.320 But I've also stepped away. And after being an academic, I've done three different 00:52:50.320 --> 00:52:51.580 startups, three different sizes. 00:52:51.740 --> 00:52:56.640 I did a small startup with a telemetry project, actually a wearable project, 00:52:56.640 --> 00:53:03.260 for a couple of years. I then worked for a company as a DevRel for doing monitoring, Sensu. 00:53:03.440 --> 00:53:08.860 They no longer exist. They were acquired. And then I worked for iSurveillance, and they got acquired. 00:53:09.160 --> 00:53:12.980 And so it's really interesting. I was getting ready to move back east from Alaska 00:53:12.980 --> 00:53:15.380 to follow my wife, who's got a job in Virginia. 00:53:15.520 --> 00:53:19.980 And it just so happened it lined up when Matthew announced that he was stepping down. 00:53:20.260 --> 00:53:24.620 So it was like the stars aligned, right? So I come back east, 00:53:24.740 --> 00:53:28.260 basically pick up my life that I left when I went to Alaska. 00:53:28.460 --> 00:53:31.900 And it's like I'm right back where I started, like back into Fedora now, 00:53:31.900 --> 00:53:34.000 this time as the project lead. 00:53:34.280 --> 00:53:39.780 It seems almost meant to be. Did you get nominated by this gentleman or how did that process work? 00:53:40.100 --> 00:53:45.020 We had a lot of really good candidates and it was a super, super hard decision. 00:53:45.020 --> 00:53:49.340 And I think in the end we agreed the stars aligned here for this to be the best. 00:53:49.560 --> 00:53:53.300 Very nice. Matt, why the decision to change things? 00:53:53.760 --> 00:53:58.660 Well, I've been, so it will have been 11 years as Fodora Project Leader when 00:53:58.660 --> 00:54:03.240 we do the handover to be the beginning of June there. So that's a long time. 00:54:03.680 --> 00:54:07.360 And I honestly, I love it and I really could keep doing it. 00:54:07.560 --> 00:54:12.920 But I think it's good for the project to have someone else kind of looking over things. 00:54:12.920 --> 00:54:16.960 And it's good for me to find something else to do, although I'm not going to 00:54:16.960 --> 00:54:20.680 go very far. I'm actually going to be still in the same group at Red Hat that 00:54:20.680 --> 00:54:22.960 does Fedora, Linux, community things. 00:54:24.216 --> 00:54:30.096 Does this just mean you get to play on things that are maybe less planned or 00:54:30.096 --> 00:54:33.116 you get to just kind of spend your time somewhere that you would like to? 00:54:33.396 --> 00:54:38.256 Well, I think planned is pretty ambitious for anything I've been doing. 00:54:40.656 --> 00:54:44.576 But the first thing I'm going to do is sleep for a week. 00:54:45.536 --> 00:54:49.796 And then so I'm actually going to be a manager in there because I actually don't 00:54:49.796 --> 00:54:52.896 have any experience as being a full time people manager. 00:54:52.896 --> 00:54:59.916 And I thought I'd see how that goes and see how that broadens my view into working 00:54:59.916 --> 00:55:02.856 in an open source world. And we'll see where we go from there. 00:55:04.076 --> 00:55:07.616 And then, gentlemen, is there a mentorship process that's going on here? 00:55:07.636 --> 00:55:11.976 I know you said you're spending two weeks together, but is there anything more formal or less formal? 00:55:12.536 --> 00:55:16.456 Yeah, so that's also, I think, a lot of times, I mean, it's been 10 years, 00:55:16.536 --> 00:55:20.536 so we don't really have a process for FPL transition that's there. 00:55:20.536 --> 00:55:24.436 But a lot of times it's been kind of thrown into the deep end. 00:55:24.876 --> 00:55:30.476 Robin Bergeron, my predecessor, helped me a lot, but was also very ready to 00:55:30.476 --> 00:55:32.256 be done with the job at the time. 00:55:32.476 --> 00:55:36.116 So I did a lot of making things up as I was going along. 00:55:36.116 --> 00:55:39.496 And I think Jeff will get to do a lot of that as well. 00:55:39.496 --> 00:55:44.516 But I want to make sure I'm going to be there so I can share anything, 00:55:44.816 --> 00:55:48.276 my thoughts on things without trying to, you know. I don't want to be one of 00:55:48.276 --> 00:55:51.496 those, I'm pulling the puppet strings behind the scenes kind of thing. 00:55:51.636 --> 00:55:56.276 I'd be very respectful of the new role, but I also want to make sure that I'm accessible. 00:55:57.336 --> 00:56:02.156 Because I do have a lot of knowledge about things that Jeff keeps telling me, 00:56:02.256 --> 00:56:05.216 did you make slides for this? Did you write this down? 00:56:05.896 --> 00:56:09.856 No, I have not, but I can tell you all about it. 00:56:10.076 --> 00:56:14.936 So we'll try and get that transferred in a formal way rather than just, 00:56:15.116 --> 00:56:16.296 oh yeah, I should tell you this. 00:56:16.816 --> 00:56:20.876 Nice. And Jeff, what are you looking forward to when you get your feet dirty here? 00:56:21.316 --> 00:56:25.096 Well, I guess, like I said, I don't want to opine too much just yet, 00:56:25.236 --> 00:56:31.316 but initially what I'm really looking forward to is getting a sense of the health 00:56:31.316 --> 00:56:37.376 of the project because I think Fedora is now at that time where it's now a generational project. 00:56:37.956 --> 00:56:43.156 And as I tell people who meet me, if you remember my name and you're still involved 00:56:43.156 --> 00:56:45.596 in the project, you're maybe a risk. 00:56:46.442 --> 00:56:51.102 You may be an institutional bus factor, or what's the better way of saying that? 00:56:51.502 --> 00:56:54.942 Champagne factor or desert island factor. 00:56:55.442 --> 00:56:58.822 We talk about llama farming. 00:56:59.802 --> 00:57:06.882 So I am concerned that people who are doing it for the full length of the project, 00:57:06.882 --> 00:57:11.342 they probably have institutional knowledge that we don't have a process to change over. 00:57:11.342 --> 00:57:18.382 And we may be relying on them too much to do what I consider hero work. And I want to find that. 00:57:18.662 --> 00:57:22.542 I want to get a sense of where that is so we can have an appropriate process 00:57:22.542 --> 00:57:25.662 to get mentor new contributors in. 00:57:25.822 --> 00:57:31.062 So that's my first thing, not technology, just get a sense of the health of the project. 00:57:31.222 --> 00:57:35.282 Because, like, even though it is very stable in terms of output now, 00:57:35.462 --> 00:57:38.942 which was not what it was when I was working on it, But it's, 00:57:39.242 --> 00:57:43.662 you know, and everyone says, like, yes, it's a rock-solid deliverable. 00:57:44.242 --> 00:57:49.322 I want to get a sense of where the contributors are at and where the creaky 00:57:49.322 --> 00:57:54.522 bits are, right? So we're not burning out some people to make sure that that 00:57:54.522 --> 00:57:55.482 deliverable is happening. 00:57:55.902 --> 00:58:01.822 I mean, as I tell people this week, like, my mental model for this job is I'm 00:58:01.822 --> 00:58:04.942 the president of a weird university, right? 00:58:04.942 --> 00:58:09.142 This job to me is, I'm not doing the work, like the people in the community 00:58:09.142 --> 00:58:11.662 or the faculty and the students doing the work in the university, 00:58:11.842 --> 00:58:15.202 but Red Hat is sort of like the equivalent of the state legislature. 00:58:15.722 --> 00:58:19.882 They are investing in funding, and so I have to bridge that. 00:58:19.882 --> 00:58:25.682 And so it's important for me to get face time with as many Red Hat stakeholders 00:58:25.682 --> 00:58:30.902 as I can so that I can build bridges and make sure that the community ethos 00:58:30.902 --> 00:58:36.622 and the process by which technology works its way through from Fedora up is 00:58:36.622 --> 00:58:38.602 something that they're getting the best value out of. 00:58:39.223 --> 00:58:41.843 Without disrupting the community, right? Because it's, like I said, 00:58:41.943 --> 00:58:44.463 like the university model in my head, every time I say it, I'm like, 00:58:44.583 --> 00:58:45.983 this is the right model for this job. 00:58:46.343 --> 00:58:50.283 Because it's like, state legislatures and faculty, you know, 00:58:50.363 --> 00:58:51.703 are not on the same page all the time. 00:58:51.823 --> 00:58:55.163 And that's where the president of a university basically sits. 00:58:55.323 --> 00:58:57.203 And that's what it feels like. 00:58:58.103 --> 00:59:02.183 Well, Matthew, Jeff, like, thank you so much for joining us. 00:59:02.323 --> 00:59:04.203 And come on Linux Unplugged anytime. 00:59:05.543 --> 00:59:08.403 It's always nice to talk to you. And yeah, I'd be happy to talk more. 00:59:08.563 --> 00:59:11.843 Even when I'm out of the role, I'll probably have more spare time for just, 00:59:11.883 --> 00:59:15.703 you know, sitting around pontificating about things. So that'll be fun. 00:59:16.223 --> 00:59:19.083 Sounds good. And Jeff, thanks for joining us. And we'll surely hear from you 00:59:19.083 --> 00:59:21.403 in the future. Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me on. 00:59:21.823 --> 00:59:25.343 Yeah, Matthew, that invitation to that mumble room is open all the time. 00:59:25.403 --> 00:59:26.703 Come pontificate with us anytime. 00:59:27.103 --> 00:59:29.983 I'm also really glad we made that connection. I think it's going to be interesting 00:59:29.983 --> 00:59:34.023 to have Jeff on the show after he's got, you know, some time under his belt 00:59:34.023 --> 00:59:35.343 at the helm of the Fedora Project. 00:59:35.843 --> 00:59:38.563 I know you boys are looking forward to that, too. He just has such perspective, 00:59:38.563 --> 00:59:40.023 if you think about all the time put in. 00:59:40.343 --> 00:59:43.843 Yeah, yeah, really. I mean, it's pretty neat to have somebody originally connected 00:59:43.843 --> 00:59:47.183 with the project, took some time away to really get some perspective and come back. 00:59:47.203 --> 00:59:51.443 And I like his model of a university. That's an interesting thought model, at least going in. 00:59:51.563 --> 00:59:56.463 It'll be fascinating to follow up with him and find out if that played out for him. 00:59:56.643 --> 00:59:59.743 I think the next few years should be fun for the Fedora folks. 01:00:00.063 --> 01:00:02.683 So on our last day, you know, you have to knock out the fun stuff, 01:00:02.823 --> 01:00:07.083 like seeing our buddies at the Fedora booth. and they had this machine that they were teasing. 01:00:07.503 --> 01:00:12.263 I had to try it. It's called the AI Wish Machine. Okay, so we have a little 01:00:12.263 --> 01:00:14.863 experience here. Wes, do you want to explain what we're about to do? 01:00:15.503 --> 01:00:19.463 Yeah, it's the one thing I think so far at Summit that there's been a lot of hype around. 01:00:19.723 --> 01:00:24.763 We saw it advertised at the keynote on stage and Chris has yet to try it. 01:00:25.083 --> 01:00:30.303 It's the spectacular AI Wish Machine. Magic promises AI Wish is granted. 01:00:31.223 --> 01:00:33.343 Your wish, Chris, is its consideration. 01:00:34.893 --> 01:00:38.673 Chris, what are your expectations here? I mean, it was featured in today's keynote. 01:00:39.153 --> 01:00:41.613 Well, it was before the keynote started. You know, like when you go to the movie 01:00:41.613 --> 01:00:43.433 theater and they have, like, advertisements up on the screen? 01:00:43.833 --> 01:00:45.813 This was up on the screen. It's something you've got to try. 01:00:46.133 --> 01:00:47.553 So I've got a lot of questions. 01:00:47.753 --> 01:00:50.273 You know, I've seen a lot of things here at Summit. So I assume this is going 01:00:50.273 --> 01:00:52.093 to kind of connect a few dots for me. 01:00:52.313 --> 01:00:56.833 And if nothing else, give me some advice on how perhaps OpenShift could help 01:00:56.833 --> 01:01:01.533 revolutionize the JV infrastructure and really drive innovation and lower total 01:01:01.533 --> 01:01:03.573 cost of ownership. So that's what I expect it's going to tell me. 01:01:04.933 --> 01:01:08.093 You know, the other thing, we've been to summits before, and in particular last 01:01:08.093 --> 01:01:11.033 year, there was some pretty cool AI-powered stuff, you know, 01:01:11.093 --> 01:01:14.813 like walls and visualizations and changing your photo kind of thing. 01:01:15.373 --> 01:01:18.633 Could be something like that, maybe. So should we go over? 01:01:19.473 --> 01:01:23.593 So I attempted, of course, but everybody wanted their token because after you 01:01:23.593 --> 01:01:27.533 complete the vending machine experience, the AI Wish machine dispenses a token, 01:01:27.693 --> 01:01:30.233 and everybody loves their little swag. 01:01:31.073 --> 01:01:34.713 Okay, Chris, you've stepped up to the machine here, the AI Wish machine. 01:01:34.713 --> 01:01:36.593 What's your first impression? Oh, it's popular. 01:01:37.093 --> 01:01:41.513 Two different people cut in front of us to use this thing. People apparently have questions. 01:01:41.873 --> 01:01:44.853 So the first thing I've got to do is I've got to scan my badge to make an AI 01:01:44.853 --> 01:01:46.113 Wish. I'm going to go ahead and do that. 01:01:49.253 --> 01:01:53.173 Is it scanning? I don't think it's scanning. Try scanning harder. 01:01:53.273 --> 01:01:55.293 I didn't see other people struggle with this. Why is it not working? 01:01:56.213 --> 01:01:59.253 I got my badge in the hole. What is it? There we go. Right? Is it doing it now? 01:01:59.693 --> 01:02:02.113 Yes. Okay. Hello, human. Hello, human. 01:02:02.773 --> 01:02:06.713 She's rolling something. Scan your bed. Nope, it didn't get it. Oh, gosh. 01:02:07.093 --> 01:02:12.713 Now we got it. Okay, you may now make your AI wish. Okay, I wish to be rich. 01:02:13.273 --> 01:02:16.833 Oh, no, you have to actually choose from these options. I wish to train models 01:02:16.833 --> 01:02:18.413 without compromising my private data. 01:02:18.553 --> 01:02:22.733 I wish to build and deploy my AI wherever I need it. I wish to easily scale 01:02:22.733 --> 01:02:26.153 my AI across my company. I wish to use my preferred AI models and hardware. 01:02:26.393 --> 01:02:29.113 Well, clearly, I wish to... None of these. 01:02:29.733 --> 01:02:33.393 I'm going to, I guess, scale it across my company because it's the last of the 01:02:33.393 --> 01:02:34.953 thing I want to do. So I'm just going to pick that one. 01:02:36.013 --> 01:02:38.973 Easily scale your AI across your company. Okay, that's what I wished. 01:02:40.353 --> 01:02:47.133 And AI says, with some slow frames, I tried, but you'll need to insert a gazillion dollars. 01:02:48.233 --> 01:02:52.773 What? Why is AI hustling me for money? Processing your wish. 01:02:53.093 --> 01:02:56.893 Why is the frame rate like 15 frames per second? If your AI solution won't work 01:02:56.893 --> 01:02:58.253 with you, it won't work for you. 01:02:59.213 --> 01:03:03.993 When you need your AI to scale on your terms, yeah, you need Red Hat. 01:03:05.473 --> 01:03:06.353 Thanks for playing. 01:03:08.593 --> 01:03:14.653 That's it? Grab your pin and then visit the booth to talk to a Red Hatter. 01:03:14.853 --> 01:03:16.953 Well, where's my pin? Oh. 01:03:17.793 --> 01:03:18.993 Okay, let's get this... 01:03:20.742 --> 01:03:24.302 Oh, it's a red hat with AI sparkles. Okay. 01:03:25.722 --> 01:03:30.682 Well, Chris, come over here. I'm so excited to learn. How was your experience? 01:03:30.822 --> 01:03:32.562 I'm not sure what was answered. 01:03:33.182 --> 01:03:38.042 I think that just told me to go to a booth and I got a pin. I like pins, I guess. 01:03:38.462 --> 01:03:41.242 But how was your AI experience? Bad, man. 01:03:42.502 --> 01:03:46.542 That wasn't really the best experience, but one thing that was kind of low-key 01:03:46.542 --> 01:03:50.322 talked about at the keynote that I think you picked up on, Wes, 01:03:50.462 --> 01:03:53.682 as maybe going to have larger implications down the road, 01:03:53.882 --> 01:03:58.022 is Red Hat seems to be embracing MCP at all the different levels. 01:03:58.382 --> 01:04:03.262 Yeah, definitely. This is something we had on our little buzzword bingo chart going into this. 01:04:03.362 --> 01:04:07.162 I'm not sure if we'd see it or not, because it's kind of relatively new even 01:04:07.162 --> 01:04:09.542 in just the broader AI universe. 01:04:09.542 --> 01:04:14.342 It's the model context protocol, and it's a standard that came out of Anthropic 01:04:14.342 --> 01:04:18.442 for sort of letting the AI systems interface with the rest of the world. 01:04:18.582 --> 01:04:21.262 As you've heard, we believe that 01:04:21.262 --> 01:04:26.882 openness leads to flexibility and flexibility leads to choice with AI. 01:04:27.602 --> 01:04:33.642 And to ensure that, it's critical that we have industry-wide standards that 01:04:33.642 --> 01:04:35.662 all companies can build around. 01:04:36.462 --> 01:04:42.782 Now, as we discussed yesterday, MCP or Model Context Protocol is one of those 01:04:42.782 --> 01:04:45.822 core standards that's just poised to take off. 01:04:46.302 --> 01:04:51.842 Now the letter P, protocol, is really important in this case. 01:04:52.922 --> 01:04:55.762 Vint Cerf, the godfather of the internet, 01:04:56.262 --> 01:05:02.862 describes protocol as a clearly delineated line that allows for independent 01:05:02.862 --> 01:05:09.322 innovation on either side of that line, what he calls permissionless innovation, 01:05:09.842 --> 01:05:16.822 allowing anyone to experiment and innovate, no approvals required. 01:05:18.942 --> 01:05:23.302 This is what we're striving for at Red Hat. I like that messaging. 01:05:23.702 --> 01:05:25.802 I'm going to be curious to see what their actual rollout is. 01:05:26.002 --> 01:05:31.202 It does sound like they're working on the back end to sort of have MCP implementations 01:05:31.202 --> 01:05:33.802 for a lot of Red Hat products and services, right? 01:05:33.882 --> 01:05:37.322 So if you want to be able to interface these things from a chatbot or hook it 01:05:37.322 --> 01:05:41.402 into other agentic AI systems, Red Hat will be ready. 01:05:41.402 --> 01:05:45.442 You could see maybe a practical use case of this is somewhere where you could 01:05:45.442 --> 01:05:49.202 review your system resources, utilization, disk usage, things like that from 01:05:49.202 --> 01:05:51.062 a single interface. So you log into a dashboard. 01:05:51.462 --> 01:05:54.862 Hey, what is the status of the web servers? And the system just comes back with 01:05:54.862 --> 01:05:56.102 a whole sheet of information. 01:05:56.122 --> 01:05:59.202 And even maybe down to, like, you know, applications that are installed and 01:05:59.202 --> 01:06:00.222 their usage and things like that. 01:06:00.342 --> 01:06:04.062 And you could also then, they talked about hooking it up into the event-driven 01:06:04.062 --> 01:06:08.022 side of the Ansible automation platform, right? So from your AI-driven interface, 01:06:08.182 --> 01:06:11.102 whatever that may be, you can go trigger an event that's going to go restart 01:06:11.102 --> 01:06:13.602 that server that the AI showed you was malfunctioning. 01:06:13.702 --> 01:06:16.862 And this is, you know, the question I have is, is this something that is of 01:06:16.862 --> 01:06:18.602 an interest to the RHEL base? 01:06:18.682 --> 01:06:22.122 I mean, I'm not trying to typecast, but it seems like they're traditionally 01:06:22.122 --> 01:06:25.242 a pretty conservative user base. Is this something people are pushing for? 01:06:25.322 --> 01:06:28.082 And I was trying to get a sense of that at the keynote or after the keynote, 01:06:28.142 --> 01:06:28.862 so as people were leaving. 01:06:29.002 --> 01:06:31.022 And I also would like to get a sense of that from the audience, 01:06:31.042 --> 01:06:34.182 because this is an area they're clearly pushing on for two years straight. 01:06:34.182 --> 01:06:39.822 And I think everyone maybe at this point has seen AI shoved into interfaces 01:06:39.822 --> 01:06:43.222 in a poor way and also in an actually helpful way. 01:06:43.322 --> 01:06:46.602 And so there's always the question of like, does this actually make you more 01:06:46.602 --> 01:06:49.282 efficient in your tasks or is it a new way to do the same thing? 01:06:49.602 --> 01:06:55.322 I think regardless of how you break it down, though, it's nice to see a large, well-positioned. 01:06:56.733 --> 01:07:03.333 Well-known brand in this space really working hard to bring something that is not vendor locked. 01:07:03.573 --> 01:07:06.673 You know, like I like a lot of the different solutions that are out there, 01:07:06.773 --> 01:07:10.893 but it's like you're all in on the open AI ecosystem or you got all in on Anthropic. 01:07:12.093 --> 01:07:14.493 I was also impressed. I don't know how you guys feel about this, 01:07:14.593 --> 01:07:17.493 but just, you know, every company is talking about AI. 01:07:17.753 --> 01:07:21.013 It feels like at least if you're even vaguely associated with tech these days, 01:07:21.013 --> 01:07:24.833 but talking with some of the folks in a few different places around the summit, 01:07:25.473 --> 01:07:27.353 it seems like Red Hat is very credible on AI. 01:07:27.553 --> 01:07:30.793 I mean, they have a lot of people who are legitimate actors in various open 01:07:30.793 --> 01:07:34.773 source AI communities working there, working with them. Like, 01:07:34.853 --> 01:07:35.673 they know what they're doing. 01:07:35.893 --> 01:07:39.953 They also, to me, felt very well-informed and very well-connected with other 01:07:39.953 --> 01:07:41.553 businesses who are leading the way. 01:07:42.073 --> 01:07:46.773 Yeah, I mean, we saw NVIDIA up there, AMD, Intel, you know, generally people 01:07:46.773 --> 01:07:48.873 that are competing all collaborating together on this stuff. 01:07:49.253 --> 01:07:52.513 And of course, it's always fun for us to run in with old friends of the show. 01:07:52.513 --> 01:07:57.373 And Carl was there at the community booth. All right, Carl, what do you got for me right here? 01:07:57.633 --> 01:08:01.193 I got a little pocket meat, a little bit of beef jerky and some beef and pork dried sausage. 01:08:02.653 --> 01:08:05.913 Get a little pocket meat on the expo floor. Thanks, Carl. 01:08:06.413 --> 01:08:10.313 I hit that pocket meat twice. I got to go to that pocket meat source twice while we were there. 01:08:10.433 --> 01:08:13.973 This is now like conference tradition for us. If we go to a conference and don't 01:08:13.973 --> 01:08:18.333 find Carl's special meat, then I think we're just going to feel like we left out. 01:08:18.453 --> 01:08:20.413 We do have to be careful, though, because at some point, You know, 01:08:20.513 --> 01:08:24.093 the event organizers might get keyed off that Carl is competing with the catering. 01:08:27.313 --> 01:08:30.453 Well, if you'd like to support the show, we sure would appreciate the support. 01:08:30.633 --> 01:08:33.553 And you can become a member at linuxunplugged.com slash membership. 01:08:33.553 --> 01:08:37.953 You get access to the ad-free version of the show or the bootleg, 01:08:38.093 --> 01:08:41.773 which I'm very proud of. I think the bootleg is a whole other show in itself. 01:08:41.913 --> 01:08:45.813 And so you get more content, stuff that didn't fit in the focus show. 01:08:45.873 --> 01:08:48.513 And you also get to hang out with your boys as we're getting set up. 01:08:48.513 --> 01:08:51.833 And then you get all the post-show stuff where we sort out all of the things. 01:08:52.293 --> 01:08:56.153 But you can also support us with a boost. And that's a great way to directly 01:08:56.153 --> 01:08:58.673 support in a particular episode or production. 01:08:59.153 --> 01:09:03.113 Fountain.fm makes this the easiest because they've connected with ways to get sats directly. 01:09:03.233 --> 01:09:07.013 But there's a whole self-hosted infrastructure as well. You can get started at podcastapps.com. 01:09:07.093 --> 01:09:10.493 I mention Fountain because it gets you in and it gets you boosting and supporting 01:09:10.493 --> 01:09:11.833 the show that way pretty quickly. 01:09:12.053 --> 01:09:15.573 So the two avenues, linuxunplugged.com slash membership or the boost. 01:09:15.573 --> 01:09:18.613 Or if you have a product you think you want to put in front of the world's best 01:09:18.613 --> 01:09:22.193 and largest Linux audience, hit me up, chris at jupiterbroadcasting.com. 01:09:22.513 --> 01:09:26.093 There's always a possibility that we might just be the audience you're looking 01:09:26.093 --> 01:09:28.573 to reach. That's chris at jupiterbroadcasting.com. 01:09:31.493 --> 01:09:37.373 Well, I felt a little bit of a reality shift going to this. Whoa. 01:09:37.713 --> 01:09:40.593 I did see you sweating a bit in your seat. That must explain it. 01:09:40.713 --> 01:09:43.113 Well, we've been talking a lot about this behind the scenes. 01:09:43.113 --> 01:09:48.873 And I have made the decision to switch my systems to Bluefin. 01:09:49.775 --> 01:09:54.235 And the reason being is I'm going to, behind the scenes, start playing with image mode. 01:09:54.415 --> 01:09:57.975 I'm going to start in Podman Desktop, and I'm going to start building my systems in image mode. 01:09:58.195 --> 01:10:01.975 And then we're also going to start deploying some RHEL 10-based systems and 01:10:01.975 --> 01:10:05.575 some open virtualization systems here just for us to learn and experience. 01:10:06.255 --> 01:10:10.075 And I like a lot of what image mode is going to bring to RHEL and what's already 01:10:10.075 --> 01:10:11.175 kind of there with Bluefin. 01:10:11.175 --> 01:10:16.315 And that is immutability delivered in this image way that is accessible to all 01:10:16.315 --> 01:10:18.895 kinds of administrators and DevOps people, 01:10:19.075 --> 01:10:22.555 where I think Nix is extremely powerful, especially I like the building up from 01:10:22.555 --> 01:10:26.475 the ground up approach, but we've clearly seen a lot of people bounce off of it. 01:10:26.575 --> 01:10:30.435 So I want to try to jump into this mainstream that's going in a direction that I like anyways. 01:10:30.995 --> 01:10:33.735 The rest of the world is kind of leaning in these immutable systems. 01:10:34.115 --> 01:10:38.155 And I think there's a lot of value in learning a cloud native workflow outside of Nix OS. 01:10:38.535 --> 01:10:42.175 Chris, this feels like such a massive shift for you. Why now? 01:10:42.455 --> 01:10:47.275 Because it's like getting in on the ground at the image-based workflow at this scale. 01:10:47.675 --> 01:10:51.635 Will you stop if I just promised never to alias nano to Vim again? 01:10:53.375 --> 01:10:55.955 I mean, I might bounce off it, but I really want to give it a go. 01:10:56.175 --> 01:10:58.595 I've already got Bluefin downloaded and installed on one of my systems. 01:10:59.095 --> 01:11:02.735 This is because you never figured out how to write a Nix function, isn't it? Right, right. 01:11:02.875 --> 01:11:06.575 It's just the flakes, man. The flakes drove me away. No, it's the idea of getting 01:11:06.575 --> 01:11:09.695 a lot of what I get with Nix OS, but with, and you're going to hate it when 01:11:09.695 --> 01:11:11.555 I say this, but a standard file system layout. 01:11:12.215 --> 01:11:15.435 I know, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. This is why you wouldn't use LogSeek, 01:11:15.515 --> 01:11:16.935 because you just want to mark this. 01:11:18.515 --> 01:11:22.275 But we have heard a lot of audience members say they really like these, 01:11:22.275 --> 01:11:27.495 I don't know, quote-unquote modern ways of deploying Linux, and Bluefin has 01:11:27.495 --> 01:11:29.575 been the choice that I've seen float to the surface. 01:11:30.215 --> 01:11:33.475 Yeah, and I think it's my starting point. You know, it's my, 01:11:33.615 --> 01:11:36.235 I'm going to give this a go, I'm going to test drive it, I'm going to rent this 01:11:36.235 --> 01:11:39.095 out before I make the switch, and then at the same time, I'm going to be playing 01:11:39.095 --> 01:11:42.355 around with Podman Desktop, seeing if I can build systems and what it's like to do that. 01:11:43.644 --> 01:11:46.144 And then compare and contrast and move over. And at the same time, 01:11:46.164 --> 01:11:48.944 also experiment with some of the OpenShift virtualization stuff. 01:11:49.024 --> 01:11:50.344 Because I think that's really big. 01:11:50.484 --> 01:11:55.304 That standalone OpenShift virtualization platform is going to be a contender. Or it is a contender. 01:11:56.524 --> 01:11:59.644 I have a question about how long you're going to commit to this path. 01:12:01.224 --> 01:12:04.944 Well, unless I, you know, drop off a cliff, I guess indefinitely. 01:12:05.184 --> 01:12:06.804 I don't know. I don't really have any timeline on it. 01:12:07.184 --> 01:12:10.564 Because I think it really depends on how the whole experiment goes. I've already started. 01:12:11.484 --> 01:12:14.964 You know, when we tried Bluefin last time, and I've played around with Bazite 01:12:14.964 --> 01:12:19.044 on my own, I've always really liked their general initial approach, 01:12:19.044 --> 01:12:21.384 but I always thought, oh, this would be a little bit better if I could just 01:12:21.384 --> 01:12:25.904 take and shift it a little bit and, you know, make it more specific to a podcasting workflow. 01:12:26.064 --> 01:12:28.504 Because I'm not a developer, I'm a podcaster. It makes me wonder about, 01:12:28.524 --> 01:12:31.424 like, some sort of challenge, maybe not official, but, like, 01:12:31.504 --> 01:12:35.484 you know, what are some things that you are used to doing or like doing on your 01:12:35.484 --> 01:12:36.664 current Nix-based systems? 01:12:36.884 --> 01:12:39.424 And can we see what it's like for you to try to port some of those? 01:12:39.424 --> 01:12:41.624 Well, I thought I'd start with the TUI challenge. I was going to try to have 01:12:41.624 --> 01:12:44.804 my main workstation and everything ready to go for the TUI challenge. 01:12:46.304 --> 01:12:49.544 Because I got to install a bunch of TUI apps. I do like this, 01:12:49.604 --> 01:12:53.524 because then if you publish maybe the container files you're using, 01:12:53.704 --> 01:12:54.904 then I can bootstrap them. 01:12:56.184 --> 01:12:59.764 I see how it is. Chris, are you looking for advice from the audience? 01:13:00.504 --> 01:13:03.504 People who have maybe gone down this path? I guess so. I am curious to people 01:13:03.504 --> 01:13:06.644 that are running this as their daily driver, these image-based immutables. 01:13:06.644 --> 01:13:10.304 Silver blues and your blue fins and your, you know, your blue universe. 01:13:10.464 --> 01:13:12.804 We need your atomic habits. Yeah. 01:13:13.904 --> 01:13:16.964 Or people that bounced off of Nick's and why. Or people that tried and can't. 01:13:17.084 --> 01:13:19.384 I mean, I'm curious to the people that tried to switch away from Nick's and it failed. 01:13:20.122 --> 01:13:22.722 Because it seems like that could end up being me if I don't know what I'm doing. 01:13:22.742 --> 01:13:24.762 So I'm a little nervous about that, especially because we're traveling and all 01:13:24.762 --> 01:13:26.902 of that. But I'm willing to give it a go. 01:13:27.502 --> 01:13:33.982 I'm feeling adventurous. Okay, so like after the show, we pour one out and then we RMRF? 01:13:34.702 --> 01:13:35.662 I think that's it. 01:13:37.362 --> 01:13:40.222 And now it is time for le boost. 01:13:40.442 --> 01:13:43.462 Well, we did get some boosts. It was a slightly shorter week because we recorded 01:13:43.462 --> 01:13:46.222 early. But that doesn't mean people didn't support us. 01:13:46.762 --> 01:13:51.682 And Nostaromo came in with our baller boost, which is a lovely 50,000 sats. 01:13:51.782 --> 01:13:59.402 And he says, here is to some better sat stats. 01:13:59.702 --> 01:14:04.242 Thank you, Nostar. You are helping bring that stat up all on your own right there. 01:14:04.382 --> 01:14:08.582 My favorite type of self-fulfilling prophecy. That's right. That's right. Appreciate the boost. 01:14:09.602 --> 01:14:14.382 Kongaroo Paradox comes in with 34,567 sats. 01:14:14.542 --> 01:14:17.282 Not bad. I think so. just upgraded my nix 01:14:17.282 --> 01:14:20.002 machines to 2505 yeah we 01:14:20.002 --> 01:14:22.662 should mention 2505 is out congrats to the 01:14:22.662 --> 01:14:25.902 folks involved officially out i run unstable on 01:14:25.902 --> 01:14:28.862 my main laptop which is an m2 air running nix os apple 01:14:28.862 --> 01:14:31.702 silicon the stable release on most of my home lab 01:14:31.702 --> 01:14:34.582 and maintain the options for the two inputs in my 01:14:34.582 --> 01:14:37.662 flake this was my second nix os release since getting into 01:14:37.662 --> 01:14:41.042 nix last year and this strategy made it really painless 01:14:41.042 --> 01:14:43.682 no surprises but deprecated options since i 01:14:43.682 --> 01:14:47.602 saw these cases slowly when these changes hit unstable what 01:14:47.602 --> 01:14:51.122 is your approach to nix os releases good question 01:14:51.122 --> 01:14:55.622 thank you kangaroo what do you do west i mean you're kind of a flake based system 01:14:55.622 --> 01:14:58.562 so you're probably not really paying too much attention to like channel changes 01:14:58.562 --> 01:15:02.582 and updates i do think this can be a nice way to do it if you you know you can 01:15:02.582 --> 01:15:06.622 do sort of test upgrades either on other systems where you do want to be an 01:15:06.622 --> 01:15:10.422 unstable and see sort of the overlap between your two configurations or just, 01:15:11.327 --> 01:15:14.687 do test builds on stable with whatever existing configuration you have. 01:15:14.907 --> 01:15:19.227 And yeah, if you think there might be cases where you do need specific versions, 01:15:19.287 --> 01:15:23.007 you're more sensitive to version changes, then pre-plumb your flake with Nix 01:15:23.007 --> 01:15:24.947 packages versions ready to go with those. 01:15:25.047 --> 01:15:28.307 Then you can, you know, more freely get the boilerplate done. 01:15:28.507 --> 01:15:30.087 Then you can more freely mix and match. 01:15:30.507 --> 01:15:35.427 Renly, are you more or less likely to upgrade to the next release once the previous 01:15:35.427 --> 01:15:37.067 release is no longer supported? 01:15:38.027 --> 01:15:41.147 In other words, are you going to wait? I usually wait, like. 01:15:42.187 --> 01:15:43.747 About a month, I would say. 01:15:45.147 --> 01:15:48.847 But then I'm all in. Yeah. So I like to give it a little bit of a transition 01:15:48.847 --> 01:15:51.507 period and then just dive right in. All right. 01:15:51.707 --> 01:15:55.727 We will add a link here to KongGroo's Nix files, too, for those who are curious 01:15:55.727 --> 01:15:57.067 or maybe want to emulate the approach. 01:15:57.207 --> 01:15:59.907 Oh, thank you for sharing that. I like that. Thank you for the boost, too. 01:16:01.887 --> 01:16:06.287 Well, we've got a boost here. 23,000 sats from Grunerly. 01:16:10.207 --> 01:16:15.687 Just in case nobody has already told you, it's called Da-wa-ish. 01:16:16.027 --> 01:16:19.667 Da-wa-ish. Which is German for, I was there. Da-wa-ish. 01:16:20.147 --> 01:16:22.207 So not Big D-witch? Oh. 01:16:22.867 --> 01:16:27.327 Oh. We did redeploy a final iteration for ourselves, and it's been pretty fun 01:16:27.327 --> 01:16:29.727 tracking everywhere we've gone, all around Boston and whatnot. 01:16:29.947 --> 01:16:31.287 Been doing some tourism. 01:16:31.507 --> 01:16:35.167 Yeah, it's actually to the point where Chris is kind of trying to choose his 01:16:35.167 --> 01:16:38.387 itinerary based on, you know, getting fun new routes in the Da-wa-ish. 01:16:38.387 --> 01:16:42.467 He's been doing, like, route art. That's really impressive. I like to draw on the map. 01:16:43.047 --> 01:16:47.147 Thank you for the boost. Appreciate it. Todd from Northern Virginia is here with 5,000 sats. 01:16:52.307 --> 01:16:55.367 Todd's just supporting the show. No message, but we appreciate the value. 01:16:55.547 --> 01:16:56.347 Thank you very much, Todd. 01:16:57.947 --> 01:17:01.427 Bravo, Boosin with 5,555 sats. 01:17:02.247 --> 01:17:07.907 Jordan Bravo here. I recommend the Tui file manager, Yazzi. That's Y-A-Z-I. 01:17:08.387 --> 01:17:12.907 Also, for folks who need to use Jira without the browser, check out Jira CLI. 01:17:13.107 --> 01:17:15.547 Yeah, something tells me that's going to be way faster, too. 01:17:16.367 --> 01:17:20.767 We got a boost here from TebbyDog, 18,551 cents. 01:17:21.187 --> 01:17:26.027 Thank you for helping us help you help us all. All the next service talk has 01:17:26.027 --> 01:17:30.467 me thinking of a new tool I recently found called Browser-Use. 01:17:30.847 --> 01:17:34.187 It's a tool that uses LLMs to control a web browser. They're really interesting 01:17:34.187 --> 01:17:38.567 to watch at work, and it integrates with all the common LLM APIs. 01:17:39.367 --> 01:17:42.267 Ooh, well, thank you. That's good to know. 01:17:43.287 --> 01:17:48.827 Also, a post-nitial boost? Post-litzal? I'm sorry? That's my best. 01:17:48.907 --> 01:17:51.347 Post-litzal? Do we know what that means, Wes? 01:17:52.147 --> 01:17:55.527 No, but I'm curious. It has something to do with math. 01:17:56.027 --> 01:17:59.767 Oh, that's why I thought maybe Wes would be calculating over there, you know? 01:17:59.907 --> 01:18:02.747 Yeah, he missed this one. I know. It's surprising. and you know we all know 01:18:02.747 --> 01:18:09.847 that yes zip code is a better deal yeah we do know that did you did you bring it, 01:18:10.949 --> 01:18:16.949 You want to know if I packed the five-pound map in my carry-on? Yeah. 01:18:17.669 --> 01:18:22.909 It's like I brought the mixer and the microphones. Yes, I did. Oh, there it is. 01:18:26.889 --> 01:18:29.029 Okay. Yeah, we can put it on the table here. Just move your laptop, 01:18:29.149 --> 01:18:33.889 Brent. Don't spill the booch. I'm already on the second table. Why do I get pushed off? 01:18:34.449 --> 01:18:38.129 Okay. All right. Teddy Dog. Tebby Dog, not Teddy. Tebby Dog. 01:18:38.649 --> 01:18:43.929 He says it is 18,551 sats, Wes. 01:18:44.189 --> 01:18:46.429 Yeah, there we go. Thank you. Can you get that dial in there? 01:18:46.429 --> 01:18:50.029 I got a small paper cut, so I'm tending to that. Yeah, there we go. Yeah, get some. 01:18:50.649 --> 01:18:52.449 Just grab one of Brent's Band-Aids. You brought a whole bunch. 01:18:53.089 --> 01:18:54.589 I also have a clothesline if you need it. 01:18:55.929 --> 01:18:58.409 That actually would be helpful, because then we could string up the map, 01:18:58.529 --> 01:19:00.929 and I could lay down, and then I could sort of read it that way. 01:19:01.009 --> 01:19:03.249 Okay. And take a little nap. Do you need a headlamp? 01:19:04.549 --> 01:19:07.149 Yeah, actually. Yeah, and some epoxy would be useful, too, I think. 01:19:07.149 --> 01:19:11.429 Oh, I didn't bring it, darn. Oh my gosh. I did find some travel epoxy on our trip, though. 01:19:11.769 --> 01:19:14.369 There's a little cute little bottle of it you could just keep in your pocket. 01:19:14.449 --> 01:19:17.129 We should definitely bring that, then. Okay, well, just put a little dab on 01:19:17.129 --> 01:19:19.149 the map for me, would you? Okay. Right here? 01:19:19.829 --> 01:19:24.929 Yeah, and a little to the left. Oh. Yeah, so where you just spilled the epoxy. 01:19:26.389 --> 01:19:31.149 That is the German state of Mecklenburg-Vorpommern. 01:19:31.389 --> 01:19:32.609 All right! Nailed it. 01:19:33.269 --> 01:19:36.729 That sounds like that's the name of it for sure. On the island of Rugen. 01:19:37.149 --> 01:19:40.569 Oh, whoa. Just pump the brakes right there. That's pretty neat. 01:19:41.440 --> 01:19:46.200 That is pretty neat. Thank you for the boost, and thank you for the fun zip code math. 01:19:46.800 --> 01:19:50.240 Now I'm glad we actually packed that map. That was actually worth it. 01:19:50.940 --> 01:19:57.100 Adversary 17 is here with 18,441 sats. You're doing very well. 01:19:57.280 --> 01:20:00.120 Says, I'm a bit behind, but the headsets are sounding great. 01:20:00.320 --> 01:20:03.460 Regarding the Bang Bus adventures and getting pulled over, if someone had offered 01:20:03.460 --> 01:20:05.520 their truck and trailer services, would you have taken it? 01:20:05.940 --> 01:20:08.320 From what I know about you guys, I feel like you would have been more interested 01:20:08.320 --> 01:20:09.820 in the sketchy route regardless. 01:20:09.820 --> 01:20:12.940 List well you got to test the van we that 01:20:12.940 --> 01:20:15.720 it was as much of a van we need to know it didn't work and 01:20:15.720 --> 01:20:19.340 the best way to find out was to drive it it's so true as an uh uninvolved third 01:20:19.340 --> 01:20:23.560 party i'm just gonna say confirmed yeah you know what i realize our audience 01:20:23.560 --> 01:20:30.240 knows us so well yeah yeah you got us adversaries thank you tomato boost in 01:20:30.240 --> 01:20:35.660 with 12 345 cents i think that might be a. 01:20:36.400 --> 01:20:40.500 Spaceballs boost we're gonna have to go right to ludicrous 01:20:40.500 --> 01:20:43.640 speed it's been a minute thank you for the spaceballs boost i'm looking 01:20:43.640 --> 01:20:47.020 forward to hearing your reports from red hat summit i've 01:20:47.020 --> 01:20:51.140 started the challenge early because i'll be on holiday most of next week i'm 01:20:51.140 --> 01:20:55.000 already having a blast and it reminds me how much i enjoyed using linux and 01:20:55.000 --> 01:21:00.840 bsd back in the day right on oh and mr mato also links this up here because 01:21:00.840 --> 01:21:03.680 my write-up, which I'm updating as I go along, 01:21:04.260 --> 01:21:06.280 is at a link we'll have in the show notes. 01:21:06.540 --> 01:21:09.120 That is great. I love that he's getting a head start. 01:21:09.780 --> 01:21:12.680 That's really nice. In fact, if anybody else has any great TUI tools, 01:21:12.940 --> 01:21:16.540 now is your chance to send them either boost or email because we need to round them up. 01:21:16.720 --> 01:21:19.360 We'll be doing that in the next episode before we launch the actual TUI challenge. 01:21:20.200 --> 01:21:21.780 That's fantastic. Thank you for the boost. 01:21:22.880 --> 01:21:27.800 MegaStrike's here with 4,444 sats. That's a big old duck. He says, Hello. 01:21:28.040 --> 01:21:31.200 It's funny you bring up the back catalog listeners, I just finished listening 01:21:31.200 --> 01:21:35.700 to every Jupiter Broadcasting episode minus the launch, released since the beginning 01:21:35.700 --> 01:21:40.640 of the year in the last week and a half at 1x speed. 01:21:42.412 --> 01:21:46.232 I feel like, MegaStrike, you should give us some insights. That's so crazy. 01:21:46.232 --> 01:21:47.412 What have you learned in this journey? 01:21:47.832 --> 01:21:50.872 MegaStrike is a mega listener, I'll tell you what. Does this include this week 01:21:50.872 --> 01:21:54.432 in Bitcoin? Are you going to go back and catch the launch, at least since episode 01:21:54.432 --> 01:21:55.792 10, because it's pretty good? 01:21:56.252 --> 01:21:59.012 I wonder. I have so many questions. What's the schedule like? 01:21:59.332 --> 01:22:02.232 What activities do you listen for? Were you road tripping? 01:22:02.652 --> 01:22:06.112 How did you get that much time in? That's awesome to hear, and I have so many 01:22:06.112 --> 01:22:07.352 questions. Thank you for the boost. 01:22:07.872 --> 01:22:14.012 Well, Turd Ferguson is here with 18,322 sets. Turd Ferguson! 01:22:15.092 --> 01:22:19.572 First of all, go podcasting. And second of all, did you boys soak up any culture 01:22:19.572 --> 01:22:22.252 in Boston? Or was it all Ansible and OpenShift? 01:22:22.352 --> 01:22:24.892 It was a lot of Ansible OpenShift, that is true. 01:22:25.072 --> 01:22:27.372 I mean, Chris got in the fight at the package store. 01:22:27.652 --> 01:22:31.132 There was that, there was that. We got to go to a ball game. We did that. 01:22:31.812 --> 01:22:37.252 We saw the Salem. We went to Salem and we saw a very old grave site. 01:22:37.352 --> 01:22:38.752 Which was pretty cool, actually. 01:22:39.152 --> 01:22:40.852 Sounds a little weird, but it was actually pretty fun to do. 01:22:40.972 --> 01:22:43.592 Some beautiful graveyards out here. Famous witches, too. 01:22:43.812 --> 01:22:46.172 Yeah, what else did we do? What else have we done that wasn't Summit-related? 01:22:46.192 --> 01:22:48.552 We've done a few things. We're in our Airbnb now. 01:22:49.152 --> 01:22:51.572 Well, we popped in to pay our appropriate respects at Cheers. 01:22:51.852 --> 01:22:55.292 Oh, that's right. We went to Cheers. That was kind of all right. 01:22:55.892 --> 01:22:58.932 It was all right. Norm has just passed, so it was kind of nice to be there right 01:22:58.932 --> 01:23:01.492 as Norm had passed. So people were there pairing their respects, 01:23:01.652 --> 01:23:03.512 and they had pictures up and flowers and all of that. 01:23:04.412 --> 01:23:07.792 They were very gluten-friendly at Cheers, I've got to say. Yeah, pretty good service. 01:23:08.052 --> 01:23:11.412 You know, it's not just a tourist hotspot, but the food is fine. 01:23:11.612 --> 01:23:13.872 And, of course, we did mention we got to go to a baseball game, 01:23:13.932 --> 01:23:15.972 so that was pretty classic. That was really nice. Yeah. 01:23:16.232 --> 01:23:19.292 I thought we got pretty lucky here. Red Sox and the Mets is pretty, 01:23:19.312 --> 01:23:23.712 like, classic ball game. Yeah. And also Fenway Park. I'd always... 01:23:24.273 --> 01:23:27.293 Heard of it and how unique it was but to see it in person yeah 01:23:27.293 --> 01:23:30.333 i'm not a sports ball guy but that's just such a great opportunity and 01:23:30.333 --> 01:23:33.693 it was a blast well as west knows baseball has very strange rules 01:23:33.693 --> 01:23:38.913 around parks shapes and sizes basically none and so each one is a unique experience 01:23:38.913 --> 01:23:43.493 but you know after that we kind of got our fill of the city and made our escape 01:23:43.493 --> 01:23:48.873 which of course meant um encountering the native drivers that's true i really 01:23:48.873 --> 01:23:51.113 thank you both for letting Drive, I really enjoyed it. 01:23:51.413 --> 01:23:55.633 I found it, at first I was a little like, wow, lanes have no meaning here. 01:23:55.793 --> 01:23:59.893 I mean, quite literally, lanes have no meaning here. But it's because the roads are old and narrow. 01:24:00.053 --> 01:24:04.293 And so you just kind of weave, you do a weave, and you just trust that the other 01:24:04.293 --> 01:24:06.733 driver is going to weave to your zig or whatever. 01:24:06.973 --> 01:24:09.773 And so you zig and zag around everybody. And I really enjoyed it. 01:24:09.913 --> 01:24:15.013 It actually is a lot like driving the RV, where it's down to last second dodging 01:24:15.013 --> 01:24:17.793 another thing that's just barely sticking into your lane, or you don't have 01:24:17.793 --> 01:24:19.893 a complete lane, and you have a very wide vehicle. 01:24:20.193 --> 01:24:22.133 And so it was essentially taking 01:24:22.133 --> 01:24:26.113 all my RV driving experience and applying it to a passenger vehicle. 01:24:26.313 --> 01:24:29.153 But it worked great, and I enjoyed the heck out of that. So that was a treat 01:24:29.153 --> 01:24:31.413 for me, because usually when we travel, I don't get to drive at all. 01:24:31.673 --> 01:24:36.673 We also then got to see lighthouses and go to the ocean and get fresh seafood 01:24:36.673 --> 01:24:38.053 out of the dirty Atlantic Ocean. 01:24:38.453 --> 01:24:41.653 It's not as good as the Pacific, but what do I know? I feel like you're biased. 01:24:42.833 --> 01:24:45.973 And we crossed off some new states, right? New Hampshire and Maine, 01:24:46.013 --> 01:24:49.253 our cousin from another coast. That's right. That's right. So thank you. 01:24:49.393 --> 01:24:50.273 Thank you, Turd, for that. 01:24:50.993 --> 01:24:54.793 It's nice to reminisce about it. In fact, thank you everybody who boosted into the show. 01:24:54.893 --> 01:24:58.173 Even though it wasn't a full week, we had a decent showing and we really appreciate it. 01:24:58.253 --> 01:25:02.393 We had 30 of you just stream those sats as you enjoy the show and you stacked 01:25:02.393 --> 01:25:05.653 collectively 46,223 sats. 01:25:05.653 --> 01:25:09.713 So when you bring that together with all of our boosts, everything that we read 01:25:09.713 --> 01:25:11.713 above the 2,000 sat cutoff and below, 01:25:11.953 --> 01:25:19.253 we stacked a grand total of 215,748 sats for this very humble but yet very appreciative 01:25:19.253 --> 01:25:21.173 episode of the Linux Unplugged program. 01:25:21.513 --> 01:25:24.353 Thank you everybody who supports us with a boost or the membership. 01:25:24.353 --> 01:25:27.273 You are literally keeping us on the air and the best. 01:25:27.280 --> 01:25:34.800 Music. 01:25:34.932 --> 01:25:39.752 If you'd like to get in on the boosting fun, you can use Fountain.fm. It makes it really easy. 01:25:40.412 --> 01:25:45.292 Or just a podcast app listed at podcastapps.com. Before we get out of here, 01:25:45.412 --> 01:25:47.052 you know what we got? A pick. 01:25:48.652 --> 01:25:52.552 This is one that we were tipped off to at the summit, and it's pretty neat. 01:25:52.852 --> 01:25:57.032 It's MIT licensed, and Wes has it running on his laptop right now. 01:25:57.152 --> 01:25:59.932 What is it, Wes Payne? It's Ramalama. 01:26:00.572 --> 01:26:02.172 I love that name. Say that again? 01:26:03.012 --> 01:26:04.612 Ramalama. Once more. 01:26:05.572 --> 01:26:11.232 Rama llama rama llama uh yeah okay so we've talked a bunch about oh llama on 01:26:11.232 --> 01:26:16.532 the show but it turns out um it's not really fully open source and so some folks 01:26:16.532 --> 01:26:19.372 are a little put off by this and there's some feelings like it's got some vc 01:26:19.372 --> 01:26:21.832 money there's some like okay right now they're totally fine but, 01:26:22.352 --> 01:26:25.072 what might happen and i guess the core part of it and like 01:26:25.072 --> 01:26:28.112 the sort of the some of the model serving stuff is not open source and 01:26:28.112 --> 01:26:30.872 i think there's some feelings like they're trying to be a bit 01:26:30.872 --> 01:26:33.572 like docker in the early days where they want to be the standard right they've got their 01:26:33.572 --> 01:26:36.612 own model catalog and protocol for fetching the models from them 01:26:36.612 --> 01:26:39.392 when there's also places like hugging face and other you know lots 01:26:39.392 --> 01:26:42.652 of ways to get these models absolutely yeah ramalama was 01:26:42.652 --> 01:26:45.692 created sort of as a more fully open 01:26:45.692 --> 01:26:48.392 alternative to olama it's also 01:26:48.392 --> 01:26:53.212 more powered by containerization so whereas olama has like its own kind of stuff 01:26:53.212 --> 01:26:56.892 that it does to do acceleration in its core and it handles the model running 01:26:56.892 --> 01:27:01.332 ramalama starts with kind of a first initial step which is a scripting layer 01:27:01.332 --> 01:27:04.852 that assesses your host system for whatever capabilities might be available 01:27:04.852 --> 01:27:06.252 for running models efficiently. 01:27:07.124 --> 01:27:10.384 And then the rest of it is all done with containers. So it'll spin up a Podman 01:27:10.384 --> 01:27:11.424 container. You can use Docker too. 01:27:11.764 --> 01:27:14.864 And that gets a standardized environment, which then gets piped in whenever 01:27:14.864 --> 01:27:16.664 host-specific stuff is needed. 01:27:16.744 --> 01:27:21.304 And then in there, you go download the model from Ollama or Hugging Face or 01:27:21.304 --> 01:27:23.184 wherever else is supported. Wherever you want. 01:27:23.344 --> 01:27:30.124 And then using either Ollama CPP or VLM, you can then directly run as a chatbot 01:27:30.124 --> 01:27:33.424 or serve via open AI-compatible API that model. 01:27:33.544 --> 01:27:37.544 So in other words, you can get a script, And even if you've just got a weak 01:27:37.544 --> 01:27:41.104 CPU-based system, this thing will set up, identify you've got a CPU system, 01:27:41.264 --> 01:27:45.924 launch the Podman containers, and inevitably give you an interface that looks 01:27:45.924 --> 01:27:48.284 a lot like ChatGPT running on your local box. 01:27:48.424 --> 01:27:52.444 But if you want to next level that sucker, you can use VLM to, 01:27:52.444 --> 01:27:55.624 like, pipe the back end to, like, some serious GPU action or, 01:27:55.724 --> 01:27:57.404 like, a cloud provider, whatever you might want. 01:27:57.564 --> 01:28:01.004 Yeah, exactly. So you can kind of go from zero all the way to AI hero. 01:28:02.544 --> 01:28:04.444 But, no, you can actually. Like, I was just playing with it, 01:28:04.484 --> 01:28:08.724 right? So it's OpenA compatible, so you've got OpenWebUI or not-so-OpenWebUI 01:28:08.724 --> 01:28:12.284 running locally. You can hook that right up just like you would for Ollama. 01:28:12.564 --> 01:28:16.444 You can talk to RamOllama. That's right. Okay, so we'll have links and more 01:28:16.444 --> 01:28:17.584 information in the show notes for that. 01:28:17.724 --> 01:28:22.224 I see here at the bottom of the RamOllama.ai, it says supported by Red Hat. 01:28:22.464 --> 01:28:24.064 So I take it. Red Hat's all in. 01:28:24.604 --> 01:28:29.464 Yeah, I think it's actually maybe even under the containers repo there. 01:28:29.604 --> 01:28:33.644 So it's kind of a first-party system in Red Hat and in the wider Podman ecosystem, 01:28:33.704 --> 01:28:36.964 too. Boom. Power tip right there from Wes Payne and Mr. Brantley. 01:28:37.144 --> 01:28:40.504 So we're getting back to our regular live schedule. We always try to keep the 01:28:40.504 --> 01:28:43.664 calendar as up to date as we can at jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar. 01:28:43.844 --> 01:28:48.384 And of course, if you got a podcasting 2.0 application, then we mark a live 01:28:48.384 --> 01:28:51.004 stream pending, usually about 24 hours ahead of time in your app. 01:28:51.104 --> 01:28:53.764 And then when we go live, you just tap it right there in your podcast app and 01:28:53.764 --> 01:28:56.404 you can tune in. Also, just a friendly reminder, in case you don't know, 01:28:56.564 --> 01:28:59.344 we have more metadata than that, too, because we also got chapters, 01:28:59.504 --> 01:29:01.944 right? Stuff you really want to hear about and jump right to, chapter. 01:29:02.184 --> 01:29:06.024 Stuff maybe you don't want to hear about and you would rather skip, go to the next chapter. 01:29:06.244 --> 01:29:10.384 And we also have transcripts on the show. So if you want even more details on 01:29:10.384 --> 01:29:13.204 that or you just want to follow along, those are available in the feed. 01:29:13.624 --> 01:29:17.364 See you next week. Same bat time, same bat station. 01:29:17.864 --> 01:29:23.044 Show notes are at linuxunplugged.com slash 616. Big shout-out to Editor Drew 01:29:23.044 --> 01:29:25.864 this week, who always makes our on-location audio sound great. 01:29:25.904 --> 01:29:27.064 We really appreciate him. 01:29:27.244 --> 01:29:30.744 And, of course, a big shout-out to our members and our boosters who help make 01:29:30.744 --> 01:29:34.664 episodes like this possible so we can do on-the-ground reporting to try to extract 01:29:34.664 --> 01:29:36.324 that signal from the noise. 01:29:36.544 --> 01:29:40.184 Thank you so much for tuning in this week's episode of your Linux Unplugged program. 01:29:40.484 --> 01:29:44.124 We will, in fact, be right back here next week, and you can find the RSS feed 01:29:44.124 --> 01:29:46.924 at linuxunplugged.com slash RSS. 01:29:47.760 --> 01:30:37.222 Music.