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TUI Challenge Kickoff

Jun 8, 2025
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Our terminal apps are loaded, the goals are set, but we're already hitting a few snags. The TUI Challenge begins...

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Transcript

WEBVTT 00:00:11.507 --> 00:00:16.507 Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. 00:00:16.687 --> 00:00:17.307 My name is Wes. 00:00:17.467 --> 00:00:18.167 And my name is Brent. 00:00:18.327 --> 00:00:22.907 Hello, gentlemen. Well, coming up on the show today, our terminal apps are loaded. 00:00:23.087 --> 00:00:27.827 The goals are set, but are we already having just a few snags? 00:00:27.947 --> 00:00:30.807 Well, we'll kick off the TUI challenge and tell you all about that, 00:00:30.887 --> 00:00:33.067 and hopefully you'll hear about some great apps. 00:00:33.267 --> 00:00:36.327 Then we'll round out the show with some boosts and picks and a lot more. 00:00:36.467 --> 00:00:41.047 So before we go any further, Let's say time-appropriate greetings to our virtual 00:00:41.047 --> 00:00:42.487 lug. Hello, Mumble Room. 00:00:42.687 --> 00:00:45.167 Hi there. Hi, Chris. Hey, Wes, and hello, Brent. 00:00:45.947 --> 00:00:48.487 Hello. Nice to have you in there. 00:00:48.567 --> 00:00:49.627 Thanks for being here. Hello, hello, hello. 00:00:49.967 --> 00:00:53.847 Hello. And a big good morning to our friends over at Tailscale, 00:00:54.067 --> 00:00:56.427 tailscale.com slash unplugged. 00:00:56.907 --> 00:01:02.147 Tailscale is the easiest way to connect your devices and services to each other wherever they are. 00:01:02.187 --> 00:01:06.107 And when you go to tailscale.com slash unplugged, you'll get it for free on 00:01:06.107 --> 00:01:09.607 100 devices and three user accounts, no credit card required, 00:01:09.687 --> 00:01:13.627 still the same plan I'm on for my personal plan, and you'll build out a flat 00:01:13.627 --> 00:01:16.567 mesh network powered by Wagon. Wagon! 00:01:16.967 --> 00:01:17.247 Wagon. 00:01:17.807 --> 00:01:21.127 It is really great. It's secure remote access to your production systems, 00:01:21.227 --> 00:01:24.407 your mobile systems, your containerized applications, your VMs, 00:01:24.467 --> 00:01:28.147 whatever it might be, even across complex multi-vendor networks. 00:01:28.247 --> 00:01:31.327 And I'm talking it's fast, really, really fast. 00:01:31.467 --> 00:01:35.407 It's privacy for the individual, and it's privacy for the corporation as well. 00:01:35.407 --> 00:01:38.987 I kind of had an evolution of using it personally and then realized we could 00:01:38.987 --> 00:01:42.207 really change how we do things for Jupyter Broadcasting, reduce cost, 00:01:42.347 --> 00:01:45.267 increase flexibility and portability of our back-end infrastructure. 00:01:45.647 --> 00:01:47.227 So that's why I love Tailscale. 00:01:47.847 --> 00:01:51.567 None of my private information now syncs over the public web. 00:01:51.827 --> 00:01:56.087 I can location track. I can sync my calendar and my notes and everything. 00:01:56.227 --> 00:01:57.787 It all goes over my Tailnet. 00:01:57.947 --> 00:02:00.527 And then when I'm communicating with the back-end infrastructure for Jupyter 00:02:00.527 --> 00:02:05.447 Broadcasting, all that's on its own Tailnet as well. So go to tailscale.com slash unplugged. 00:02:05.467 --> 00:02:09.727 Try it for free on 100 devices, three users, for free. tailscale.com slash unplugged. 00:02:09.907 --> 00:02:12.487 No credit card required, and it's a great way to support the show. 00:02:12.687 --> 00:02:15.447 That's tailscale.com slash unplugged. 00:02:18.286 --> 00:02:20.846 Well, we have a couple of items to get to. Let me scroll down in the terminal 00:02:20.846 --> 00:02:26.426 here because we are using boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, a 2E app for our show notes. 00:02:26.606 --> 00:02:29.386 And we wanted to let everybody know that there's a couple of call for papers 00:02:29.386 --> 00:02:33.146 that are open right now. You've got two months left for Texas Linux Festival. 00:02:34.006 --> 00:02:39.586 NixCon in the U just opened. And Siegel in Seattle is also open with their call for papers. 00:02:39.766 --> 00:02:42.986 So you got a little bit of time if you want to go to any of those and do a talk. 00:02:43.606 --> 00:02:47.506 You know, our audience, they're so smart. Surely some of you have some good talk ideas. 00:02:47.506 --> 00:02:51.626 Great for the resume too, you know. And it's been a while, but we wanted to 00:02:51.626 --> 00:02:54.726 give a big shout out to our chat mods across the various platforms, 00:02:55.006 --> 00:02:57.706 often doing a lot of work without getting recognition. 00:02:57.746 --> 00:03:01.666 So we just want to take a moment of the show and thank all of you out there for doing that. 00:03:01.846 --> 00:03:05.746 And then we've had a request for folks' recommendation for where to buy sats 00:03:05.746 --> 00:03:07.666 in the EU. Some reputable sources. 00:03:07.926 --> 00:03:11.266 So we're hoping to crowdsource some suggestions and we'll make a list that we'll put in the show notes. 00:03:11.666 --> 00:03:15.006 So send in your locations for getting sats in the EU. 00:03:15.746 --> 00:03:19.186 One last note in the housekeeping before we get to the TUI challenge. 00:03:19.386 --> 00:03:25.526 We just wanted to note that it is now 21 years of Pharonix.com and Michael Arbol 00:03:25.526 --> 00:03:29.846 working his tush off over there and really following what he calls the dramatic 00:03:29.846 --> 00:03:32.406 evolution of Linux hardware since its inception. 00:03:32.786 --> 00:03:37.626 And I wanted to give him this shout here on the show because there are probably 00:03:37.626 --> 00:03:40.406 a handful of original Linux news sources. 00:03:40.406 --> 00:03:46.426 literally you could count where original linux news comes from on one hand and 00:03:46.426 --> 00:03:48.726 he's one of the people out there pumping out a lot of it. 00:03:48.726 --> 00:03:52.766 I mean his whole life must be mailing lists and uh stress testing. 00:03:52.766 --> 00:03:58.966 And writing benchmarking yeah over 52 000 articles and reviews have been published 00:03:58.966 --> 00:04:05.686 46 000 news pieces 5 400 hardware reviews already. 00:04:05.686 --> 00:04:10.466 I think this year once or twice uh he's caught performance regressions in the 00:04:10.466 --> 00:04:12.406 kernel that had to get fixed in the rc stage. 00:04:12.406 --> 00:04:15.306 Yeah so there is a sale going on 00:04:15.306 --> 00:04:18.286 right now discounted through june 9th so not for much longer if 00:04:18.286 --> 00:04:21.526 you want to sign up if you're listening to this while it comes out you could 00:04:21.526 --> 00:04:25.786 go support for onyx at a discount for the birthday sale and i think it's you 00:04:25.786 --> 00:04:29.986 know even if you don't read it uh it is really important for the linux ecosystem 00:04:29.986 --> 00:04:35.746 as far as news goes because we need more original reporting not less so big shout out to mr larval, 00:04:39.812 --> 00:04:43.592 So the TUI challenge is here, and I thought maybe we'd step back and talk about 00:04:43.592 --> 00:04:48.052 where the idea of this came from, because I think it was a boost suggestion 00:04:48.052 --> 00:04:51.392 for LUP 600, wasn't it? Didn't it come in around that time? 00:04:51.552 --> 00:04:54.912 I think that is actually quite correct. We were wondering what other challenges 00:04:54.912 --> 00:04:57.892 might change our lives, and I think this one's well on its way. 00:04:58.052 --> 00:04:59.252 Yeah, we like to do these from time 00:04:59.252 --> 00:05:03.012 to time to make ourselves a little uncomfortable, get us outside our zone. 00:05:03.172 --> 00:05:06.632 But also, you know, even if you don't participate in the challenge as a listener, 00:05:06.752 --> 00:05:09.872 which you're totally welcome to, But if you don't, you're going to get a nice 00:05:09.872 --> 00:05:13.452 list of great applications and tools you can use at some point. So there's that, too. 00:05:13.772 --> 00:05:17.892 But it was. And then it built on itself. People kept sending in ideas for the 00:05:17.892 --> 00:05:22.512 TUI challenge, and we just sort of iterated on it as the community built on one idea after another. 00:05:23.012 --> 00:05:26.672 So it's a nice way to discover tools. It was sort of a community, 00:05:26.812 --> 00:05:27.892 organic, created thing. 00:05:29.132 --> 00:05:34.672 and I think is a unique opportunity to kind of go not back in time, 00:05:35.152 --> 00:05:38.312 but it feels a little bit, at least I felt like it's a little bit like time traveling. 00:05:38.512 --> 00:05:41.232 And I've been slightly nostalgic too, which is always fun. 00:05:41.492 --> 00:05:44.892 Yeah, right. I mean, at least the last time that these were the primary interfaces, 00:05:44.892 --> 00:05:48.372 we all use the terminal more than, you know, your average computer user in 2025. 00:05:48.472 --> 00:05:54.412 But even still, you know, the web browser is this kind of king and you're not 00:05:54.412 --> 00:05:57.592 necessarily pressed to move any of this stuff unless you, you know, 00:05:57.672 --> 00:05:59.232 you get really fed up with the browser. 00:05:59.712 --> 00:06:00.992 It's a bit of a browser detox. 00:06:01.492 --> 00:06:05.932 In some of my initial research, I was also really impressed by just how modern 00:06:05.932 --> 00:06:09.072 some of these apps actually are and modern toolkits on the back end and all that. 00:06:09.152 --> 00:06:12.732 So I don't, I don't, it's definitely not fair to say that it's completely going 00:06:12.732 --> 00:06:14.732 back in time because, geez, some of this is really cutting edge. 00:06:14.892 --> 00:06:18.092 All right, so let's start with your shopping spree, Brent. How did you go about, 00:06:18.252 --> 00:06:21.392 what was the process of researching and choosing your first two apps? 00:06:21.832 --> 00:06:25.452 Did you have any criteria, any surprising finds, anything like that? 00:06:26.032 --> 00:06:30.412 Well, my number one criteria was to try to find apps that you guys wouldn't find. 00:06:30.772 --> 00:06:35.032 Because I feel like, I don't know. We're trying to round it out here. 00:06:35.192 --> 00:06:36.552 Brent's getting weird with it. I love it. 00:06:36.552 --> 00:06:38.872 It's really, I have a little competition with you guys you don't know about 00:06:38.872 --> 00:06:41.992 that I just like hold for myself. 00:06:42.052 --> 00:06:43.512 Well, we don't call it a challenge for nothing. 00:06:43.792 --> 00:06:44.812 There you go. Multi-challenge. 00:06:44.812 --> 00:06:48.232 He brought his A game. He was talking up how worried he was, 00:06:48.332 --> 00:06:50.132 and then here he is with a secret plan. 00:06:50.232 --> 00:06:51.572 This is going to get scored after all. 00:06:51.572 --> 00:06:56.112 So I did know that, you know, some easy to find resources might be like Awesome 2E. 00:06:56.332 --> 00:07:00.412 And Chris, I did confirm that, yep, you had gone there. So I decided to just 00:07:00.412 --> 00:07:01.652 ignore that and go elsewhere. 00:07:02.132 --> 00:07:05.772 So I tried to find some like underground different suggestions and different 00:07:05.772 --> 00:07:11.032 apps to find. And I'm hoping I won, but we'll see a little later. 00:07:12.172 --> 00:07:14.852 What about you, Wes? Did you have any methodology to your shopping spree? 00:07:15.392 --> 00:07:19.792 Oh, not in particular. I mean, I kind of looked through some of the past stuff 00:07:19.792 --> 00:07:21.512 that I had bookmarked for the show. 00:07:21.812 --> 00:07:25.612 And then, yeah, I definitely browsed a couple of the popular awesome lists. 00:07:25.712 --> 00:07:28.512 And then I did spend a little time asking some of the LLMs, too, 00:07:28.592 --> 00:07:31.232 if they had any standouts that they could recommend. 00:07:32.392 --> 00:07:38.632 What about things like how recently the application has been updated? 00:07:38.632 --> 00:07:42.552 or are you leaning towards like things like Rust and Go tools? 00:07:42.812 --> 00:07:45.692 I will say a lot of these have been abandoned years ago. It doesn't mean they 00:07:45.692 --> 00:07:47.532 don't work, but they haven't been updated for years. 00:07:47.792 --> 00:07:49.852 Yeah, you do have to kind of watch out. And for some things that may not matter. 00:07:49.852 --> 00:07:51.992 Some of them are like super fresh too. Some of them are brand new. 00:07:52.132 --> 00:07:55.532 Depending on what it is and depending on how much like whatever API or thing they talk to. 00:07:56.132 --> 00:07:59.572 Yeah, I mean, I don't care so much about the implementation if it's packaged 00:07:59.572 --> 00:08:03.112 in Nix. If it's not, then maybe that matters. If it's kind of fussy to set up, 00:08:03.252 --> 00:08:03.952 that would be a downside. 00:08:04.192 --> 00:08:07.792 Okay, I'm glad you brought that up. So let's talk about that. 00:08:07.792 --> 00:08:13.252 But each of us probably took our own approach at how we got these TUI apps installed on our rigs. 00:08:13.272 --> 00:08:15.692 I'm guessing you went the Nix package repo. Yep. 00:08:15.912 --> 00:08:18.852 I'm doing it on my NixOS laptop, so that was the easiest route for me. 00:08:19.032 --> 00:08:20.712 What about you, Brent? How did you install these apps? 00:08:21.852 --> 00:08:27.452 I decided halfway to change my decision, but I'm also going NixOS. It's just so easy. 00:08:27.612 --> 00:08:31.812 Okay. So I went the hard way. And as you listening may know, 00:08:31.972 --> 00:08:33.432 I recently switched to Bluefin. 00:08:34.272 --> 00:08:37.412 And Bluefin, if you're going to install apps in the user space, 00:08:37.632 --> 00:08:40.972 there's really probably two routes to take, it seems, from what I'm learning. 00:08:41.172 --> 00:08:42.712 Again, I'm still learning, so go gentle on me. 00:08:43.192 --> 00:08:47.152 One is to use Brew and install a package via Brew. 00:08:49.492 --> 00:08:54.092 However, I don't love Brew on Mac OS, and Brew on Linux has even less packages, 00:08:54.092 --> 00:08:55.972 it seems, at least from my experience. 00:08:56.212 --> 00:09:00.332 So then my other route would be to run it via Podman or a DistroBox container. 00:09:01.814 --> 00:09:02.794 Or Flatpaks? 00:09:03.654 --> 00:09:06.494 Well, for TUI apps, there's not very many things as a Flatpaks. 00:09:06.634 --> 00:09:09.774 Yeah, great for graphical apps, but for command line applications. 00:09:09.774 --> 00:09:11.014 Can you install snaps? 00:09:11.994 --> 00:09:17.114 I don't know. But it is ironic. I think I picked the hardest distro if you want 00:09:17.114 --> 00:09:18.974 to install them on the host OS. 00:09:19.334 --> 00:09:24.894 However, after about two hours of banging my head with that, I was like, screw this. 00:09:25.054 --> 00:09:30.314 I spun up using the uChange command, which is quite useful. I spun up a Arch 00:09:30.314 --> 00:09:36.794 distro box and then I got the AUR going in about 15 seconds and then everything got a lot easier. 00:09:37.454 --> 00:09:42.114 So everything I have to do, it's really most of my TUI apps is in that Arch 00:09:42.114 --> 00:09:43.954 container. I think that's okay. 00:09:44.454 --> 00:09:46.914 But is it still bluefin? That's the real question. 00:09:46.974 --> 00:09:53.254 Well, if you think about it in what I want, it is containerizing all the shenanigans 00:09:53.254 --> 00:09:56.034 that I'm going to be doing for the next seven days. And then when I'm done, 00:09:56.254 --> 00:09:59.034 I could just blow that away and my host system's totes clean. 00:09:59.234 --> 00:10:02.774 And as long as you can mount in whatever stuff you might want to access to get 00:10:02.774 --> 00:10:05.574 your regular files for working with the two-way things, then it works. 00:10:05.714 --> 00:10:10.594 Well, so here's a bit of where it's not all sunshine and jelly beans in containers. 00:10:10.914 --> 00:10:16.394 What I find myself having to do practically is install things in multiple locations. 00:10:16.914 --> 00:10:21.514 So I've got, if I can, I've got it installed via brew, but then I often also 00:10:21.514 --> 00:10:22.654 need it in the arch container. 00:10:22.894 --> 00:10:26.734 Oh, now I've got an Ubuntu container as well. And what will we, oh, teammate. 00:10:27.374 --> 00:10:31.514 We were just trying to use Teammate because we're doing a shared Teammate session 00:10:31.514 --> 00:10:33.714 now with Vim to look at our show doc. 00:10:33.934 --> 00:10:38.174 So we can do semi-quasi-collaborative editing, which it is not. 00:10:38.174 --> 00:10:40.594 It is basically single editor at a time. 00:10:41.334 --> 00:10:43.654 We're mob programming over here. It's working great. 00:10:43.794 --> 00:10:46.714 We needed to try it in various ways. So I ended up having to install Teammate 00:10:46.714 --> 00:10:48.914 on my Bluefin host system. 00:10:49.014 --> 00:10:52.594 I installed Teammate in the Arch session and I installed Teammate in the Ubuntu 00:10:52.594 --> 00:10:54.474 session. And it started to get a little old. 00:10:55.445 --> 00:10:59.465 So I've just kind of landed on, I'm using the AUR for most of this stuff. 00:10:59.765 --> 00:11:03.005 For this next seven days of the challenge, are you going to have to remember 00:11:03.005 --> 00:11:06.385 which environment certain tools are in so that you can call them up? 00:11:06.465 --> 00:11:09.705 That was the direction I was going. And now I've just said, I'm going to use 00:11:09.705 --> 00:11:10.645 the Arch container for this. 00:11:10.745 --> 00:11:12.365 So nothing on the Bluefin host at all? 00:11:12.545 --> 00:11:13.745 I don't think so. 00:11:13.925 --> 00:11:14.165 Okay. 00:11:14.325 --> 00:11:18.045 I reserve the right to change my mind. But starting on day one of the challenge, 00:11:18.045 --> 00:11:21.785 I'm thinking everything in the Arch container and then it's just there. 00:11:22.525 --> 00:11:25.445 And, you know, I'm using, what's that terminal that I can't say the name of? 00:11:25.585 --> 00:11:25.945 Zellage? 00:11:26.105 --> 00:11:27.445 No, the other one starts with a P. 00:11:27.605 --> 00:11:28.245 It's probably kitten. 00:11:28.765 --> 00:11:30.385 PyTix or whatever, or P-Tix or. 00:11:31.185 --> 00:11:31.545 Tixis? 00:11:31.765 --> 00:11:35.065 Tixis. I just, I'm using that to get to the Arch container. 00:11:35.285 --> 00:11:38.565 Yeah, I mean, you're set up to do it. It's a nice integration. 00:11:38.565 --> 00:11:42.065 So with your fancy ass Nix doing everything for you, did you have any problems 00:11:42.065 --> 00:11:44.605 at all installing any of these things? No drama at all? There's nothing? 00:11:44.725 --> 00:11:50.005 Well, I don't have my complete set of apps all set up. so so far no but i think 00:11:50.005 --> 00:11:55.165 um there's at least one already that i want to try that i'm not sure it's so i think i will i. 00:11:55.165 --> 00:11:58.025 Spent a long time figuring out the right way to do this. 00:11:58.025 --> 00:12:03.125 I uh installed all mine while we were prepping for the show online here so uh 00:12:03.125 --> 00:12:08.645 i probably installed 10 things and it totaled like 53 megs and it just happened 00:12:08.645 --> 00:12:11.765 way faster i thought it was actually didn't work because it happened so quickly. 00:12:11.765 --> 00:12:15.345 Yeah okay here's one it's like c++ that looks like i'm gonna have to figure 00:12:15.345 --> 00:12:17.005 out how to build myself if I want to try it. 00:12:17.165 --> 00:12:17.285 Okay. 00:12:17.485 --> 00:12:19.285 So I will have some struggles. 00:12:19.505 --> 00:12:23.545 I hope because that's where I've spent a lot of my time so far was just figuring 00:12:23.545 --> 00:12:25.225 out the right way to do this. And I'm just, I don't know. 00:12:25.345 --> 00:12:27.645 I'd be curious if other Bluefin users if you think I'm doing it the wrong way, 00:12:27.705 --> 00:12:29.585 but I've just decided I'm doing everything in this large container. 00:12:29.645 --> 00:12:32.745 I'm going to use it for the whole challenge and then pop goes the weasel when I'm done. 00:12:33.065 --> 00:12:34.945 Well, unless some tools become part of your workflow. 00:12:34.965 --> 00:12:37.965 That's true. That is true. That could happen. We'll get to that. 00:12:38.485 --> 00:12:42.505 So how are you feeling about the week ahead? I was actually feeling myself really 00:12:42.505 --> 00:12:46.225 good until we actually sat down and started using a terminal app to do our dock. 00:12:47.565 --> 00:12:52.605 I'm feeling a little bit deeper. Well, I think this is just us having pre-gamed 00:12:52.605 --> 00:12:55.825 a lot of the rest of the challenge and not thinking through this part of that. 00:12:55.825 --> 00:12:57.605 That's true, but it made us like an hour late. 00:12:57.785 --> 00:12:59.145 Yeah, but I think now that we 00:12:59.145 --> 00:13:02.145 know this will be a problem, we have a whole week to get a better setup. 00:13:02.185 --> 00:13:03.625 That's true. We did pre-game the other parts. 00:13:03.845 --> 00:13:07.285 The kernel already suggested one better tool. I think if we got like a better, 00:13:07.965 --> 00:13:10.825 you know, there's a few options we have. I'm hopeful. 00:13:11.305 --> 00:13:14.165 Okay, so as far as like apps you have yet to set up or tasks you have yet to 00:13:14.165 --> 00:13:16.745 do, Brent? What's your biggest anxiety for the week? 00:13:18.142 --> 00:13:24.682 I think I'm afraid of how much experience you guys have versus me in doing this kind of stuff. 00:13:24.862 --> 00:13:28.722 So I don't think I've really done the TUI lifestyle at all, period. 00:13:28.982 --> 00:13:33.422 I've, of course, worked my way around the terminal to accomplish a bunch of 00:13:33.422 --> 00:13:35.462 things, and it's definitely part of my daily life. 00:13:35.562 --> 00:13:40.182 But in terms of TUIs specifically, I'm brand new at this. 00:13:40.302 --> 00:13:43.682 So the idea of the challenge, right, is you're trying to use the terminal user 00:13:43.682 --> 00:13:47.802 interface as much as possible. We have specific challenges for each day that 00:13:47.802 --> 00:13:49.242 we have outlined and linked in the show notes. 00:13:49.782 --> 00:13:53.362 And Wes, I'm curious what you think might cause you to break out of a TUI and 00:13:53.362 --> 00:13:55.722 go to like a graphical browser or... 00:13:55.722 --> 00:14:00.182 Yeah, I think there'll probably just be some sites. We've got a couple decent-ish, 00:14:00.342 --> 00:14:03.122 surprisingly decent options for browsing. 00:14:03.902 --> 00:14:07.242 But there might be things that just doesn't work for once you really try to 00:14:07.242 --> 00:14:09.782 get, you know, real serious stuff done. 00:14:09.782 --> 00:14:12.222 Like an example would be the YouTube live page. Yeah, right. 00:14:12.222 --> 00:14:15.362 The show's got to go live, so we'll probably have to break out for that. 00:14:15.542 --> 00:14:20.742 Yeah, so there may be some things, but I'm going to try to keep that as much to a minimum as I can. 00:14:20.842 --> 00:14:23.422 Have you looked at any LLM command line apps? 00:14:23.622 --> 00:14:26.922 Well, I do still have my Vibe setup, so I've been doing that a little bit. 00:14:27.142 --> 00:14:30.062 There are, I think, probably I should look, because there probably are a few 00:14:30.062 --> 00:14:33.762 that are more tailored to a chat, too, if you just want to actually chat. 00:14:35.002 --> 00:14:37.462 So that's one thing I have as homework this week. 00:14:37.802 --> 00:14:41.322 Do you think you have a sense of what you're going to bite off first with a 00:14:41.322 --> 00:14:44.322 2E app? Like what's going to be a slam dunk you're not even worried about? 00:14:45.582 --> 00:14:48.542 Well, there are some cool file managers, but I think I was kind of delaying 00:14:48.542 --> 00:14:52.342 that because I'm actually pretty comfortable just doing that with Phish and in the terminal. 00:14:52.502 --> 00:14:55.722 So I feel like that might be cheating, but it's also feels like a slam dunk 00:14:55.722 --> 00:14:58.122 that I'm, I spend a fair amount of time doing that in the terminal anyway. 00:14:58.282 --> 00:15:02.342 It's more rare that I even open Dolphin. So feel okay on that end. 00:15:02.402 --> 00:15:07.262 I'll say on day one going into this, I didn't expect the web browser to be such a solved problem. 00:15:07.722 --> 00:15:09.082 That was crazy. We'll get to 00:15:09.082 --> 00:15:13.962 that in a little bit. So I'm not too worried about web tasks to a degree. 00:15:15.722 --> 00:15:20.022 I also, I think I've solved chat, but I'm curious, Brent, like for you, 00:15:20.102 --> 00:15:21.842 what do you think is the most solved TUI problem? 00:15:21.962 --> 00:15:24.882 Like you're going to be able to just roll into a TUI app, no problem, and continue doing. 00:15:25.582 --> 00:15:28.882 I think probably file browsing. It seems like there's a lot of options out there 00:15:28.882 --> 00:15:31.062 depending on what your preferences are. 00:15:32.782 --> 00:15:38.262 Surprisingly, there are like Slack clients and Matrix clients that seem pretty 00:15:38.262 --> 00:15:40.082 mature and are used quite a bit. 00:15:40.902 --> 00:15:46.462 I was wondering about the LLMs too, like pretty heavy browser-based, 00:15:46.502 --> 00:15:49.962 and I don't think your fun little browser setup that we were trying earlier 00:15:49.962 --> 00:15:52.202 was really amenable to that kind of thing. 00:15:52.382 --> 00:15:52.922 Yeah, I'm not sure. 00:15:53.994 --> 00:15:57.974 So I think, yeah, some things are quite solved. Others, I think we're really going to struggle. 00:15:58.414 --> 00:16:00.954 Yeah, probably the trickier, like just basic chat should be easy. 00:16:01.054 --> 00:16:04.554 But if you're trying to do like image or music generate that, 00:16:05.034 --> 00:16:08.294 probably more difficult. Or you just have to go to a browser. 00:16:08.714 --> 00:16:11.994 All right, so we're just kicking off the fun. So if you want to get in, you still can. 00:16:12.414 --> 00:16:15.434 We're hoping you'll also share some of your initial experiences at the beginning 00:16:15.434 --> 00:16:19.374 of the week and then follow up at the end of the week before next Sunday's show. 00:16:19.854 --> 00:16:22.734 So send the good and the bad, your TUI apps, your experiences. 00:16:22.734 --> 00:16:26.774 is you can boost them in or email unplugged at jupyterbroadcasting.com or go 00:16:26.774 --> 00:16:28.334 to linuxunplugged.com slash contact. 00:16:28.914 --> 00:16:30.754 If you choose the email route, be 00:16:30.754 --> 00:16:34.354 sure you put hashtag 2i challenge in the search so we can filter on that. 00:16:34.734 --> 00:16:40.134 And if you're looking for some inspiration, I found a few websites that are really top notch. 00:16:41.494 --> 00:16:47.294 Terminal-apps.dev is a really clean layout of a bunch of good 2i apps. 00:16:47.414 --> 00:16:52.114 It's not an extensive list, but it's a good list. Have either one of you seen this? 00:16:52.114 --> 00:16:55.834 I saw you looking at it. But yeah, it's nice. 00:16:55.994 --> 00:16:59.334 It's really nice. And then another one that I think is a little more popular 00:16:59.334 --> 00:17:02.214 is Terminal Trove, TerminalTrove.com. 00:17:02.714 --> 00:17:06.014 And they have TUI apps and all kinds of terminal apps. 00:17:06.494 --> 00:17:08.554 There's a whole world over there that you can get introduced to. 00:17:08.614 --> 00:17:12.694 So they have a good selection and kind of a neat, unique way of discovering as well. 00:17:12.894 --> 00:17:15.814 And then you heard us mention it earlier, of course, but there's several of 00:17:15.814 --> 00:17:17.414 these awesome TUI lists on GitHub. 00:17:17.854 --> 00:17:21.494 I'll link to the more popular one in the show notes. And you can scroll that 00:17:21.494 --> 00:17:25.414 and find hundreds of different TUI apps to do things you never knew you could 00:17:25.414 --> 00:17:27.434 do in the terminal. And it's a fun exercise. 00:17:27.834 --> 00:17:32.194 It's a bit of computer minimalism in a way, which I think is good. 00:17:32.334 --> 00:17:35.594 It is nice that it just so happens that for the most part, these apps end up 00:17:35.594 --> 00:17:37.394 being pretty minimal, right? 00:17:37.474 --> 00:17:41.934 Like just in terms of dependencies and size, and they're usually pretty darn fast too. 00:17:45.540 --> 00:17:52.400 1password.com slash unplugged. 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That is the number 1password.com 00:19:43.240 --> 00:19:45.100 slash unplugged, all lowercase. 00:19:45.360 --> 00:19:47.460 Great way to support the show and learn more. 00:19:47.880 --> 00:19:50.240 1password.com slash unplugged. 00:19:53.509 --> 00:19:57.949 Well, as we've alluded to, each of us have been like secretly choosing the Tui 00:19:57.949 --> 00:19:59.789 apps that we think we'll be using. 00:19:59.969 --> 00:20:02.409 Of course, you're allowed to switch anytime throughout the week, 00:20:03.129 --> 00:20:04.269 right? That's not one of the rules. 00:20:05.029 --> 00:20:09.929 So I have made a list and I know you guys have made a list and we'll see where we overlap. 00:20:10.129 --> 00:20:13.749 I tried desperately to find things that maybe you wouldn't find. 00:20:13.929 --> 00:20:18.929 I'm not so confident anymore, but I'll start here. So I found a couple of file managers. 00:20:19.189 --> 00:20:22.289 I thought maybe I'd have to try a few. So I haven't tried any of these, 00:20:22.489 --> 00:20:26.809 but I certainly did install them. So that's as far as I've done a pregame. 00:20:27.089 --> 00:20:27.329 All right. 00:20:27.849 --> 00:20:30.169 Now, the first one here is called 00:20:30.169 --> 00:20:36.049 Superfile. So it says pretty fancy and modern terminal file manager. 00:20:36.269 --> 00:20:39.709 And from what I could tell from the little gifs that they have there, it looks pretty sweet. 00:20:40.269 --> 00:20:43.949 So I figured I'd give that a try. But I did also have two more here. 00:20:44.069 --> 00:20:46.209 One of them that seems extremely popular. 00:20:46.609 --> 00:20:48.669 It's called Ranger. You guys heard about this one? 00:20:48.749 --> 00:20:50.069 Oh, yeah. That's been around for a while. 00:20:50.069 --> 00:20:51.929 The Vim-inspired file manager. 00:20:52.349 --> 00:20:56.509 It's still quite actively worked on, which was nice to see. 00:20:56.869 --> 00:20:59.409 I'm curious, what are you looking for in a file manager? 00:21:00.509 --> 00:21:03.969 Well, actually, that's maybe a really good question. I want to be able to use 00:21:03.969 --> 00:21:07.649 shortcuts to move files around and stuff like that and create things pretty 00:21:07.649 --> 00:21:11.709 easily using shortcuts, which I'm assuming doesn't really narrow the list down very much. 00:21:13.129 --> 00:21:15.429 I mean, that's beyond what I'm doing. 00:21:15.589 --> 00:21:19.229 I'm just considering CP and MV. I mean, I have a pick for this, too. 00:21:19.749 --> 00:21:21.229 Yeah, but I have an argument here. 00:21:21.449 --> 00:21:21.569 Okay. 00:21:22.529 --> 00:21:24.549 A console app is not a TUI. 00:21:26.289 --> 00:21:29.389 Yeah, I kind of agree. Yeah, I kind of agree. If you can, do it in a TUI. 00:21:29.509 --> 00:21:33.389 I think doing it on the console is acceptable because sometimes you can't avoid that. 00:21:33.749 --> 00:21:37.249 But definitely the line is breaking out to a graphical file manager. 00:21:37.729 --> 00:21:39.169 That's definitely the line. Yeah. 00:21:39.629 --> 00:21:42.669 We should try to be TUing it up, right? TUing it? 00:21:42.809 --> 00:21:45.289 Yeah, I suppose so. Yeah, I agree. 00:21:45.429 --> 00:21:47.269 My thoughts, but I'm fine with it. 00:21:47.549 --> 00:21:47.809 All right. 00:21:48.329 --> 00:21:51.969 Wes has hesitations. I'll give you the third one I found here, 00:21:52.069 --> 00:21:54.329 which is really just an alternative to Ranger. 00:21:55.069 --> 00:21:58.689 I figured Wes would like this one because it's a Ranger-like terminal file manager 00:21:58.689 --> 00:22:01.289 written in Rust called Joshuto. 00:22:01.909 --> 00:22:03.189 Ooh, it's got a fun name, too. 00:22:03.489 --> 00:22:07.289 Joshuto. So I think I'll start with that one because it seems like the most 00:22:07.289 --> 00:22:11.309 fun. Joshuto is also in Nix packages, so that was easy to get. 00:22:11.609 --> 00:22:15.089 You know, I should have said, too, just searching, like, 2E or terminal in the 00:22:15.089 --> 00:22:17.549 Nix packages search is also not a bad way to find some of these. 00:22:17.549 --> 00:22:18.369 Oh, you guys. 00:22:18.589 --> 00:22:21.729 Great point. Chris, you could do that and then just see if it's available to you. 00:22:23.652 --> 00:22:24.852 We can also install Nix on there. 00:22:25.132 --> 00:22:26.992 Come on. No, I'm not installing Nix. 00:22:27.292 --> 00:22:28.352 Okay, I'll stop. I'll stop. 00:22:28.532 --> 00:22:31.852 Oh, you guys are killing me for this one. Like, I'm really feeling it for this one. 00:22:31.992 --> 00:22:34.892 So did either of you consider one of those apps? 00:22:35.232 --> 00:22:37.412 No, you got me on all those. I'm familiar with Ranger. 00:22:37.412 --> 00:22:39.212 For Ranger, I did. Yeah, it was kind of in the background. 00:22:39.372 --> 00:22:40.752 But yeah, no, I did not consider them. 00:22:41.032 --> 00:22:45.492 Okay, so audience, tell me if I should or shouldn't choose one of those because 00:22:45.492 --> 00:22:48.552 I actually didn't try them yet. So we'll see if I stick to either of these. 00:22:49.512 --> 00:22:54.692 The other category that I am probably the most worried about is the email category. 00:22:56.592 --> 00:22:59.752 So this is the category where I most tried to find something modern, 00:22:59.772 --> 00:23:02.332 because I know you could do it with, let's say, mutt. 00:23:02.512 --> 00:23:06.992 Sure. I've tried mutt before for about 15 minutes and got exactly nowhere. 00:23:07.192 --> 00:23:08.912 This is an area I want input to. 00:23:09.112 --> 00:23:12.332 But there is something called neomut, which I figured would be kind of like 00:23:12.332 --> 00:23:13.992 an old classic, but modernized. 00:23:14.532 --> 00:23:16.872 Teaching an old dog new tricks. 00:23:18.372 --> 00:23:22.792 It seems, from what I could tell, that it's basically all of the patches that 00:23:22.792 --> 00:23:25.752 want to be in MUT actually applied to a project. 00:23:26.052 --> 00:23:30.192 So we will see. I think that's a place to land. 00:23:30.332 --> 00:23:32.952 Is that a good thing or a bad thing? 00:23:33.092 --> 00:23:34.692 Well, I can't tell you. I haven't tried it yet. 00:23:34.712 --> 00:23:38.392 Yeah, same. I'm curious. MUT's on my list is a possible email solution, 00:23:38.432 --> 00:23:39.852 but I haven't picked it yet. 00:23:39.852 --> 00:23:44.452 I also tried to find something hyper-modern, and I found something called MELI, 00:23:44.692 --> 00:23:50.472 M-E-L-I, which is a, well, they just call themselves a rusty terminal mail client. 00:23:50.712 --> 00:23:51.852 Oh, okay. Interesting. 00:23:52.412 --> 00:23:56.232 But I don't know. I think this is the category where I will fall down the most, 00:23:56.372 --> 00:23:57.992 or at least have to put in the most effort. 00:23:58.172 --> 00:23:58.912 Yeah, okay. 00:23:59.052 --> 00:24:01.072 We should probably send each other some verification emails. 00:24:01.532 --> 00:24:01.792 Ooh. 00:24:02.092 --> 00:24:05.332 Yeah, make sure it's working. I see you've got slack term on your list. 00:24:05.432 --> 00:24:08.092 That came across in my searching to see if you can get slack in the terminal. 00:24:08.092 --> 00:24:11.532 Yeah, there are a couple other, I started to realize, like, if we're spending 00:24:11.532 --> 00:24:15.892 as much time as possible in the TUI, there's actually a lot more we do than 00:24:15.892 --> 00:24:17.652 just moving files around and checking email. 00:24:17.812 --> 00:24:18.952 I think you made a mistake here. 00:24:19.072 --> 00:24:19.352 Uh-oh. 00:24:20.342 --> 00:24:22.562 So you're going to have to go get like a token and all of that. 00:24:22.682 --> 00:24:26.342 You're going to have to go through the Slack web UI and that would. 00:24:26.382 --> 00:24:26.982 This ain't going to help. 00:24:27.342 --> 00:24:31.422 That would have, see, your window of opportunity, because you're talking to 00:24:31.422 --> 00:24:35.282 the guy who thought this through, was to get that set up before the TUI challenge 00:24:35.282 --> 00:24:39.862 started so you could legitimately take advantage of your GUI browser to go get 00:24:39.862 --> 00:24:41.002 the token and all of that. 00:24:41.302 --> 00:24:44.142 But now that you've waited until the TUI challenge has begun, 00:24:45.282 --> 00:24:47.302 you have made that way harder, my friend. 00:24:47.402 --> 00:24:48.562 I did not think of sequencing. 00:24:48.822 --> 00:24:50.222 Yeah, I did. 00:24:51.282 --> 00:24:54.442 Can i get your api i. 00:24:54.442 --> 00:24:55.642 Want to win this thing. 00:24:57.902 --> 00:25:02.922 So slack term is a program that i put on the list i didn't think it would be 00:25:02.922 --> 00:25:06.262 unique you boys probably forced forced to try this too i. 00:25:06.262 --> 00:25:09.362 Was i was curious about it it doesn't look like it's been updated for a minute 00:25:09.362 --> 00:25:13.302 but i don't know if that matters especially if it's just basic slack it. 00:25:13.302 --> 00:25:16.862 Could matter when it comes to slack but it has a possibility yeah. 00:25:16.862 --> 00:25:20.582 I also listen to music almost 100% that I'm on my laptop. 00:25:21.062 --> 00:25:24.302 And, you know, part of the challenge is to play that through the terminal. 00:25:24.702 --> 00:25:30.042 So I tried, well, thanks to our dear Drew, I've been using Tidal for like about, 00:25:30.162 --> 00:25:32.022 what, a year or two now to do my music. 00:25:33.562 --> 00:25:37.142 And there's a client for that, but it, you know, I guess they changed their 00:25:37.142 --> 00:25:39.582 APIs like three or four years ago, maybe five years ago. 00:25:39.782 --> 00:25:42.842 And no one's made a TUI app for it ever since. 00:25:43.302 --> 00:25:44.342 Fred's going to learn to vibe. 00:25:45.062 --> 00:25:48.022 Hey, that's a good idea, actually. I never considered making my own app. 00:25:49.662 --> 00:25:52.442 So I don't know. Maybe I'll have to solve that one with some of the local music 00:25:52.442 --> 00:25:54.122 that I have. I don't know. We'll see. 00:25:54.282 --> 00:25:56.722 There's a lot of options when it comes to playing music in the terminal. 00:25:56.962 --> 00:25:58.442 I'm thinking of trying CMOS again. 00:25:59.042 --> 00:26:01.602 I bet you there's people out there doing it right now just because they like 00:26:01.602 --> 00:26:04.142 it, not because they're doing a challenge. They just like that client. 00:26:04.282 --> 00:26:05.682 If they have, they should send it in. 00:26:05.802 --> 00:26:07.962 Nice and fast. I did find Turr music for that. 00:26:08.022 --> 00:26:09.022 Yep, yep, yep. 00:26:09.142 --> 00:26:15.042 Which I don't think is not going to be on your lists, but it is written in Rust. 00:26:15.242 --> 00:26:16.722 So I figured why not throw it in the list. 00:26:16.722 --> 00:26:17.562 You're a horns guy today. 00:26:17.562 --> 00:26:22.502 Can we just say that we all have ZellG or whatever it's called on our list? 00:26:22.682 --> 00:26:22.802 Yeah. 00:26:23.182 --> 00:26:26.482 We all do, right? Like that's going to be doing a lot of the heavy lifting where 00:26:26.482 --> 00:26:29.222 I might have multiple windows. Instead, I'm going to have multiple sessions. 00:26:30.422 --> 00:26:33.942 I knew you would both have Zellage because it just, everybody seems to love it. 00:26:34.262 --> 00:26:40.642 So I tried to find an alternative and it's called MyNav, which is Go-based. 00:26:40.842 --> 00:26:43.662 It's a Go-based workspace and session management TUI. 00:26:44.402 --> 00:26:48.702 it is not a nix os yet uh but i'll see if i can get this one working ha. 00:26:48.702 --> 00:26:53.062 Yeah you should be able to ai that up pretty easy goes easy with the nix right 00:26:53.062 --> 00:26:56.462 i will say i'm hoping maybe it's gonna be an excuse to learn zelige a little 00:26:56.462 --> 00:26:59.202 better because it kind of relied on a lot of its sort of tmux compatibility 00:26:59.202 --> 00:27:00.682 and other things and there's a 00:27:00.682 --> 00:27:04.122 lot it can do and it has like web assembly plugins and all kinds of stuff. 00:27:04.122 --> 00:27:05.662 And they got more in the works west. 00:27:07.022 --> 00:27:12.062 I kind of realize now, though, that I forgot to cross-reference my choices with 00:27:12.062 --> 00:27:13.782 the actual rules for the TUI Challenge. 00:27:14.022 --> 00:27:16.522 So is there a category I'm missing here? Maybe I didn't do enough research. 00:27:16.522 --> 00:27:22.042 You should double-check. Yeah. So my approach has been just get comfortable and get working. 00:27:23.062 --> 00:27:26.162 And then after the show, I'm going to start picking off the challenges. 00:27:26.382 --> 00:27:27.262 Yeah, that's what I meant. 00:27:27.462 --> 00:27:27.562 Too. 00:27:27.782 --> 00:27:29.802 I had to get a working environment, and I think that's what you're doing, 00:27:29.862 --> 00:27:30.962 too, is just get a working environment. 00:27:31.362 --> 00:27:35.582 Okay, so just to review here in the challenge rules, there are a couple categories. 00:27:35.762 --> 00:27:37.882 One is text editing. I think we've got that figured out. 00:27:38.382 --> 00:27:42.442 Email management, we talked about. Web browsing is the one I didn't have a choice 00:27:42.442 --> 00:27:44.622 for, but I think Browse is a good place to start. 00:27:44.902 --> 00:27:45.002 Okay. 00:27:46.462 --> 00:27:49.262 Music playback, did talk about that. File management, all good. 00:27:49.402 --> 00:27:53.162 Task management, huh. Yes, I do have a choice for this. 00:27:53.582 --> 00:27:56.322 Yeah, that's one I have not. I have some ideas. 00:27:56.522 --> 00:27:56.882 Yeah, same. 00:27:57.442 --> 00:28:00.822 But it kind of depends on, like, am I allowed to plan for the fact that, 00:28:00.822 --> 00:28:02.602 well, this challenge is not permanent? 00:28:02.962 --> 00:28:05.922 Because that's one route. If not, then it's a different route. 00:28:06.522 --> 00:28:09.922 All right, so where have you gotten so far? Have you gotten the groundwork for 00:28:09.922 --> 00:28:11.922 a working environment, Westpain? 00:28:12.342 --> 00:28:16.722 Yeah, okay, so let's see. Email, I'm checking out. I've only just got it installed 00:28:16.722 --> 00:28:20.002 and started playing with it, but I get it connected to one inbox. 00:28:20.322 --> 00:28:25.242 It's AERC, Eric, a pretty good email client. 00:28:25.422 --> 00:28:28.382 It's an email client that runs in your terminal, highly efficient and extensible, 00:28:28.862 --> 00:28:30.902 perfect for the discerning hacker. 00:28:31.862 --> 00:28:34.902 It's got support for multiple accounts, does IMAP, Mailder, 00:28:35.062 --> 00:28:37.842 NotMuch, inbox and jmap backends along with imap 00:28:37.842 --> 00:28:41.082 jmac smtp and send mail for transfer it's also 00:28:41.082 --> 00:28:44.142 got a synchronous imap and jmap support so the 00:28:44.142 --> 00:28:47.402 ui never gets locked up by a flaky network so 00:28:47.402 --> 00:28:50.802 i'm hoping this can be especially because okay i might send a couple emails 00:28:50.802 --> 00:28:55.242 but for the most part i can probably get by as a view as long as i can check 00:28:55.242 --> 00:28:58.302 and see and you know there's still some things i want to send magic links or 00:28:58.302 --> 00:29:01.482 two-factor or other dumb stuff to your inbox so i need to be able to get to 00:29:01.482 --> 00:29:05.302 those but I might not need to do like crazy advanced email composition. 00:29:05.302 --> 00:29:08.142 And I'm hoping this can get me across that, that hurdle. 00:29:08.522 --> 00:29:13.582 You just got me thinking about a, maybe a Tui app that neither of us considered is a password manager. 00:29:13.802 --> 00:29:14.862 Yeah. I'm going to have to do that. 00:29:18.508 --> 00:29:20.428 or read a lot of stuff off my phone. 00:29:20.508 --> 00:29:25.968 I use KeePass, and I know there's a bunch of terminal options there, 00:29:26.128 --> 00:29:27.668 but you boys, what are you using? 00:29:27.988 --> 00:29:30.968 We'll have to see. I'm going to figure that out. I do have a couple of options. 00:29:31.028 --> 00:29:33.628 There is Bitwarden CLI, so we'll be definitely giving that a try. 00:29:33.888 --> 00:29:36.188 That looks like a pretty good email client. I might consider that one. 00:29:36.308 --> 00:29:40.388 But you also found what looks like a pretty decent matrix client if you like Vim. 00:29:40.628 --> 00:29:46.968 Yeah, Iamb, I-A-M-B, a matrix client for the terminal that uses Vim keypindings. 00:29:46.968 --> 00:29:50.128 it supports thread spaces end to end encryption and 00:29:50.128 --> 00:29:53.548 read receipts it even does image previews 00:29:53.548 --> 00:29:57.408 in terminals that support it so it does sixels it also supports iturium too 00:29:57.408 --> 00:30:01.388 if you're doing this on a Mac and kitty which is a terminal I meant to mention 00:30:01.388 --> 00:30:04.888 because I'm trying to switch over to do that for the rest of the challenge because 00:30:04.888 --> 00:30:09.228 it has like special protocols for displaying stuff like images and there are 00:30:09.228 --> 00:30:12.508 a couple different Tui apps that support it like I am. 00:30:12.508 --> 00:30:17.868 I did by the way load up like four different terminal apps and I was like what am I going to live in? 00:30:18.348 --> 00:30:23.488 What can I deal with? And then by just the default of relying on DistroBox, 00:30:23.628 --> 00:30:26.368 I'm going with Texas or whatever it's called. 00:30:26.508 --> 00:30:29.508 But I did try out a whole raft of moves. It was a nice opportunity to go back 00:30:29.508 --> 00:30:31.348 and try a few new ones that I haven't even seen before. 00:30:31.948 --> 00:30:34.908 Okay, so another thing, Brent was talking about file managers. 00:30:35.128 --> 00:30:37.848 So Yazzie is one that we should talk about. 00:30:38.008 --> 00:30:39.148 Yeah, Yazzie's the hipster one. 00:30:39.308 --> 00:30:42.588 Blazing fast terminal file manager written in Rust based on AsyncIO. 00:30:42.908 --> 00:30:45.648 Good UI too. Yazzie's on my list. 00:30:45.648 --> 00:30:48.808 And I think, I haven't tried this yet, but it's on my shortlist. 00:30:48.808 --> 00:30:53.308 I think it also is one of the ones that can support image previews via the KIDI protocol. 00:30:53.568 --> 00:30:54.728 Oh, that's cool. Sweet. 00:30:55.388 --> 00:31:00.108 And then here's a stretch goal that I haven't played with yet because it's not in Nix. 00:31:00.708 --> 00:31:04.568 TV Term, a terminal emulator that runs in your terminal. 00:31:05.308 --> 00:31:09.388 Okay, TV Term, what? I don't understand what this means. 00:31:09.408 --> 00:31:14.188 It's an experimental terminal emulator widget and application based on the TurboVision framework. 00:31:14.668 --> 00:31:17.588 it's created actually for the purpose of demonstrating features in 00:31:17.588 --> 00:31:21.668 that framework so it's got utf-8 full width and zero width character support 00:31:21.668 --> 00:31:26.188 24-bit color support it even works on windows it's not everything you might 00:31:26.188 --> 00:31:29.788 want in a terminal emulator embedded in your terminal emulator it doesn't have 00:31:29.788 --> 00:31:33.868 scroll back text selection find text send signal to child process text reflow 00:31:33.868 --> 00:31:36.588 and resize and a lot of other stuff but so. 00:31:36.588 --> 00:31:37.948 You're saying you have a terminal in your terminal. 00:31:39.329 --> 00:31:44.829 This one is worth maybe pulling open a little browser to see its preview because you kind of get an idea. 00:31:44.969 --> 00:31:48.809 It's got a really nice legacy look to it. 00:31:48.949 --> 00:31:49.489 Oh, yeah? 00:31:49.709 --> 00:31:49.969 Uh-huh. 00:31:50.129 --> 00:31:52.829 Oh, man, I wish I wasn't in a terminal right now. I'd like to see it. 00:31:53.369 --> 00:31:56.309 I'll have to figure that out once we can close this and open up our terminal. 00:31:58.229 --> 00:32:02.109 That's great. All right, nice pick. I did see TV Term go by, 00:32:02.209 --> 00:32:06.009 but I thought it was something for watching over-the-air broadcasts or something. 00:32:06.009 --> 00:32:09.669 No, it's a TurboVision terminal emulator. 00:32:09.669 --> 00:32:14.109 That's cool. Nice find. Okay, so can I get to my apps? 00:32:14.229 --> 00:32:14.869 Oh, yeah, okay. 00:32:15.089 --> 00:32:20.089 So I also am, I think we have a theme here. I am stuck on email apps. 00:32:20.809 --> 00:32:25.309 Melly, M-E-L-I, is one I'm looking at. It's a configurable, extensible email 00:32:25.309 --> 00:32:29.989 client with some same defaults, and Redmond Rust as well just happens to be. 00:32:30.329 --> 00:32:34.349 And I'm considering that one. They have a nice WebAssembly demo. 00:32:34.569 --> 00:32:35.349 Ooh, okay. 00:32:35.349 --> 00:32:41.989 And I struggled to use it. So then I thought, I have used Mutt back in the day. 00:32:42.829 --> 00:32:45.709 And, you know, like Mutt says, all email clients suck. 00:32:45.969 --> 00:32:51.849 Mutt just sucks less. So maybe I should give Mutt a go. But then Brent comes along with his Neo Mutt. 00:32:52.549 --> 00:32:53.929 Neo must be better, right? 00:32:53.969 --> 00:32:57.389 Yeah, right. I like better. So I'm really stuck here. 00:32:57.489 --> 00:33:00.849 This is where I think I need the most input from the audience is what's worked 00:33:00.849 --> 00:33:04.249 for you as a command line email client. I wouldn't mind finding something I 00:33:04.249 --> 00:33:08.829 stick with because, you know, I could SSH into my workstation and check my email. 00:33:09.469 --> 00:33:13.709 See, so I want to say, you know, I'm sure Emacs has a pretty good email client. 00:33:13.849 --> 00:33:18.369 But it also makes me, I'm sort of tempted by that route because Emacs can do so much of this stuff. 00:33:18.549 --> 00:33:18.829 Yeah. 00:33:18.989 --> 00:33:19.909 Well, Wes, report back. 00:33:20.049 --> 00:33:21.829 You could just build out the Emacs operating system. 00:33:21.969 --> 00:33:24.489 I don't know how well these various plugins work and appear to me, 00:33:24.609 --> 00:33:26.189 but it's one way to find out. 00:33:26.349 --> 00:33:29.269 That'd be a hilarious direction. Wes just becomes an Emacs guy. 00:33:29.669 --> 00:33:32.349 Oh, if he's not already obnoxious enough with the Vim system. 00:33:33.849 --> 00:33:39.009 So, I also came across Glow, which renders Markdown on the command line with 00:33:39.009 --> 00:33:42.029 Pizzazz, and it looks really good and has a nice interface to do it, 00:33:42.109 --> 00:33:46.569 and that's really useful for me because our show docs are in Markdown and my notes are in Markdown. 00:33:46.689 --> 00:33:48.489 Yeah, this is one I actually already use. It's nice. 00:33:48.649 --> 00:33:50.169 Mm-hmm. And then... 00:33:51.444 --> 00:33:55.664 I found Gomucus. How do you say it? Gomucus? 00:33:56.124 --> 00:33:56.484 Gomucus? 00:33:56.764 --> 00:34:00.164 Gomucus? Gomucus. Probably saying it wrong, but I really like that. 00:34:00.544 --> 00:34:02.724 And it is a matrix client written in Go. 00:34:03.864 --> 00:34:10.404 And it is pretty slick. It looks like an Incursus 2E. You've got all your rooms on the left hand. 00:34:10.584 --> 00:34:14.164 You've got your chat in the right column. It looks kind of like Element would 00:34:14.164 --> 00:34:16.124 if it were a terminal application. 00:34:17.204 --> 00:34:20.024 And I've been using it. People don't even know. But I've been chatting with 00:34:20.024 --> 00:34:21.024 them for the last couple of days. 00:34:21.704 --> 00:34:23.344 Are you using it live right now on the show? 00:34:23.564 --> 00:34:28.544 No. No. I don't think I have it in the tab. I closed it because we were sharing 00:34:28.544 --> 00:34:30.624 this screen. But it's great. 00:34:31.484 --> 00:34:38.184 It is great. So, go mucks, go muckus, go muckus, go create a ruckus. 00:34:38.284 --> 00:34:43.704 It's a great matrix client. And I could see just keeping that in a terminal permanently. 00:34:44.244 --> 00:34:45.384 No electron for me. 00:34:46.424 --> 00:34:47.044 All right. 00:34:47.164 --> 00:34:51.604 I also have a web pick that I think is a real winner. So before we get to that, 00:34:51.744 --> 00:34:55.444 I want to talk about a little escape hatch that I tried to set up. 00:34:55.864 --> 00:35:01.864 I thought I could be clever and maybe I could get away with doing a time appropriate 00:35:01.864 --> 00:35:03.624 escape hatch for browsing the web. 00:35:04.224 --> 00:35:10.544 I was on FlatHub and I noticed that the Mosaic web browser is packaged as a Flatpak now. 00:35:10.724 --> 00:35:11.064 Wow. 00:35:11.224 --> 00:35:11.484 Amazing. 00:35:11.884 --> 00:35:18.904 And you can install the old school like 1994 Mosaic web browser on your machine. 00:35:19.824 --> 00:35:22.524 And I thought, well, okay, if I had to jump out of the terminal, 00:35:22.784 --> 00:35:26.424 but I jumped over to something that was age appropriate and mosaic, 00:35:26.764 --> 00:35:31.024 maybe the boys would give me some creative points, right? So I didn't say nothing. 00:35:32.084 --> 00:35:36.044 And I installed it and I was trying it out. But of course, it doesn't have SSL 00:35:36.044 --> 00:35:38.484 support because that didn't exist back then. 00:35:39.144 --> 00:35:41.404 Yeah, certainly not TLS, you know, modern TLS. 00:35:41.604 --> 00:35:47.364 And it doesn't have SVG support. And it crashes hard the moment it sees an SVG image. 00:35:47.524 --> 00:35:50.844 And a lot of the web is using SVGs now. 00:35:51.324 --> 00:35:54.964 So I had to bring Wes in on the conspiracy. And I said, Wes, 00:35:55.084 --> 00:35:59.424 I need you to create me a solution to this. And Wes came up with a little Perl proxy. 00:35:59.704 --> 00:36:00.244 It's Python. 00:36:00.404 --> 00:36:05.644 Oh, Python, a little Python proxy. that he helpfully set up as a systemd service on my local box. 00:36:05.924 --> 00:36:10.004 And so now I have a local port running on this machine that I can point the 00:36:10.004 --> 00:36:17.284 Mosaic browser at, and that local little proxy strips SSL and strips SVG images 00:36:17.284 --> 00:36:20.604 and then sends the HTML back to the Mosaic browser. 00:36:20.804 --> 00:36:24.924 I mean, it hasn't been perfect. We've got to do some debugging now, 00:36:24.984 --> 00:36:28.064 it seems, but it got us a surprising breadth of websites. 00:36:28.264 --> 00:36:32.104 So does this count at all for bonus points? I mean, I know I'm coming at this early. 00:36:32.764 --> 00:36:35.724 How long did it take you to set it up? Because the longer it took you. 00:36:35.804 --> 00:36:37.364 No bonus points. How long did it take you to create the proxy, Wes? 00:36:37.444 --> 00:36:39.644 Probably a half hour, a little debugging some AI. 00:36:39.844 --> 00:36:43.204 A half hour of Wes is like three for you and I. So I think it's pretty good. 00:36:44.884 --> 00:36:49.024 So, yeah. All right. So, but that's just an aside. How do we say this? 00:36:49.104 --> 00:36:52.484 Do we decide? Is it Carnobl, Carnobl, Carbinole? 00:36:52.684 --> 00:36:53.844 I was going to say Carbonyl. 00:36:54.104 --> 00:36:54.424 Carbonyl? 00:36:54.464 --> 00:36:55.584 Yeah, I'm going with Wes on this one. 00:36:55.744 --> 00:36:56.204 I don't know. 00:36:56.384 --> 00:36:59.044 Now, you found another one, Brent, and it was called... 00:36:59.964 --> 00:37:00.284 Broush. 00:37:00.584 --> 00:37:06.984 Broush is interesting because Broush relies on Firefox essentially running headless 00:37:06.984 --> 00:37:10.984 on a remote system, and then it proxies the results back to the Broush client. 00:37:11.824 --> 00:37:14.024 Kind of like what Wes set up, I guess, but just modern. 00:37:14.444 --> 00:37:18.784 This is really neat. If you think about it, you could put the Broush server 00:37:18.784 --> 00:37:22.624 on a really powerful high-speed server, and then you could have the Broush client 00:37:22.624 --> 00:37:25.464 on something that is a little more low-end, and it's just receiving text back. 00:37:25.964 --> 00:37:30.404 So I like that setup a lot, but I didn't want to have a server client setup. 00:37:30.584 --> 00:37:32.964 I wanted something that runs entirely on my machine. 00:37:33.484 --> 00:37:35.044 Why can't I just run it on my machine? 00:37:35.164 --> 00:37:35.404 You could. 00:37:35.544 --> 00:37:36.424 That's what you're doing with yours. 00:37:36.824 --> 00:37:39.704 Yeah, I just wanted one thing. I didn't want a server client thing. 00:37:39.804 --> 00:37:42.944 I just wanted one thing. Although I might give it a try. I'm not ruling it out. 00:37:43.084 --> 00:37:45.644 But what I'm saying is you already have a proxy running. 00:37:46.204 --> 00:37:46.804 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:37:47.044 --> 00:37:48.384 You're basically doing the exact same thing. 00:37:48.384 --> 00:37:51.244 But I'm not really going to use that as a joke. I'm not really. 00:37:51.324 --> 00:37:53.344 I want something I can actually use in my terminal. 00:37:53.344 --> 00:37:54.444 Oh, okay. All right. 00:37:54.644 --> 00:37:56.724 So here comes Carbano. What are we calling it? 00:37:57.124 --> 00:37:57.444 Carbano. 00:37:57.444 --> 00:38:03.804 Chernobyl, this is chromium in your terminal, and it's mind-blowing. 00:38:04.907 --> 00:38:09.647 It is unbelievable they've managed to do this. It doesn't perfectly render images and text, 00:38:09.687 --> 00:38:14.187 but it's enough that you can click around and you can actually click and you 00:38:14.187 --> 00:38:20.367 can log into stuff and you can do stuff that is Chromium compatible. And it's wild. 00:38:20.987 --> 00:38:24.847 I mean, I've never seen this. I'm used to links. 00:38:25.187 --> 00:38:29.707 You know, that's the kind of stuff I'm used to on the web terminal. 00:38:29.927 --> 00:38:34.287 And now, like right now, we're going to 1password.com slash unplugged. Look at that. 00:38:34.907 --> 00:38:35.867 That is super impressive. 00:38:36.027 --> 00:38:36.827 It is really neat. 00:38:36.967 --> 00:38:38.367 It feels like Doom a little. 00:38:38.607 --> 00:38:43.307 Yeah. It's like 8-bit web, but it's enough to get around, and the text is all 00:38:43.307 --> 00:38:46.367 perfectly rendered. It's just the images look a little 8-bit. 00:38:46.487 --> 00:38:47.967 Assuming the text isn't an SVG. 00:38:48.707 --> 00:38:50.147 No, this renders SVGs. 00:38:50.267 --> 00:38:50.427 Whoa. 00:38:50.427 --> 00:38:51.427 It's a mosaic that doesn't. 00:38:51.547 --> 00:38:54.167 I can even tell there's a video there with a play button and everything. 00:38:54.287 --> 00:38:54.647 I know. 00:38:54.847 --> 00:38:55.907 This is impressive. 00:38:56.247 --> 00:39:01.967 It really is. It's amazing. There's a lot. If you install it by just installing 00:39:01.967 --> 00:39:06.167 packages on your system, you've got to get NPM working. You've got to get some 00:39:06.167 --> 00:39:07.647 sound libraries working. 00:39:07.827 --> 00:39:10.587 You've got to get some network name service libraries working. 00:39:10.587 --> 00:39:13.867 There's a lot of dependencies to get it working as a native application. 00:39:14.607 --> 00:39:19.267 But here on my Bluefin system, we're just doing a simple Podman run, 00:39:19.287 --> 00:39:24.167 and then we point at the container name, and then we pass a URL to it, 00:39:24.187 --> 00:39:26.907 and it launches in Podman right there on my container. Boom, 00:39:26.967 --> 00:39:28.107 and I'm browsing the web. 00:39:28.627 --> 00:39:31.827 So I didn't have to do anything. I'm just executing a Podman container. 00:39:32.527 --> 00:39:37.367 Really clean. And this is where Bluefin for me really shines. 00:39:37.467 --> 00:39:41.247 Like, oh, if I lean into this route, it's really simple. And even stuff that's 00:39:41.247 --> 00:39:44.987 just meant for Docker is working flawlessly with Podman. So that's been nice. 00:39:44.987 --> 00:39:46.007 It's really pretty good these days. 00:39:47.523 --> 00:39:50.323 So that's the browser I think I'm going with. 00:39:50.523 --> 00:39:53.143 Yeah, that's what I've been mostly using, although I should try Browse too. 00:39:53.603 --> 00:39:54.383 Yeah, I think so. 00:39:54.643 --> 00:39:55.563 Or Browse Reportback. 00:39:55.803 --> 00:40:00.063 Oh, I haven't mentioned MC, Midnight Commander, which is going to be my file manager. 00:40:00.203 --> 00:40:01.123 Of course, a classic. 00:40:01.623 --> 00:40:04.723 And so I've just answered this question. So for me, it's Midnight Commander. 00:40:04.863 --> 00:40:07.343 But what TUI app, starting right now, do you think for sure is sticking? 00:40:08.103 --> 00:40:09.303 Oh, that's a good question. 00:40:10.203 --> 00:40:11.163 We'll check in on this. 00:40:11.243 --> 00:40:16.203 I think with you, I'm hopeful that the matrix experience in a terminal could 00:40:16.203 --> 00:40:19.403 be pretty good, because it would be nice to be able to, like, 00:40:19.543 --> 00:40:21.983 it just seems like such a convenient and quick way to be able to sort of check 00:40:21.983 --> 00:40:24.003 on things and do basic responses. 00:40:24.303 --> 00:40:28.263 Especially once I'm back on a GUI and I have, like, Quake or Dwake and I just, 00:40:28.343 --> 00:40:30.043 boop, pop it down, boop, pop it up. 00:40:30.963 --> 00:40:33.923 All right. So, yeah, I think for me it's that or it'd be like Commander, but what about you? 00:40:35.263 --> 00:40:38.563 What TUI app do you think is, like, at the end of the challenge, 00:40:38.583 --> 00:40:41.003 you're still going to be Rocky and you're going to be glad you picked it here at the beginning? 00:40:41.143 --> 00:40:42.283 I think it's Matrix. 00:40:42.723 --> 00:40:45.343 Oh, that's your answer, too? Oh, I thought you were saying for me because that feels... 00:40:45.343 --> 00:40:46.143 Well, I am copying you. 00:40:46.263 --> 00:40:48.703 Oh, okay. Well, I think I was copying you, but I think we agree. 00:40:48.963 --> 00:40:49.883 What about you, Brantley? 00:40:50.143 --> 00:40:53.183 Well, I didn't really suggest this yet, but for a text editor, 00:40:53.183 --> 00:40:56.343 I think I'm going to lean hard into the Vim ecosystem. 00:40:57.503 --> 00:41:01.143 Probably the Neo Vim, but I'm open to suggestions only because- Oh. 00:41:01.143 --> 00:41:01.543 It hurts. 00:41:02.223 --> 00:41:05.263 Everybody seems to think it's great, and Chris, you and I, I feel like we're 00:41:05.263 --> 00:41:09.823 falling behind here. So I feel like I got to learn those Vim shortcuts. 00:41:09.863 --> 00:41:10.483 Right in the back. 00:41:10.483 --> 00:41:16.083 You were in the box at the ballgame, and you saw the live demonstration where 00:41:16.083 --> 00:41:20.683 we had people pick between Vim and Nano, and Nano won. You were there. You witnessed it. 00:41:20.763 --> 00:41:25.503 You know what convinced me just now? You can't even scroll in Nano without destroying the document. 00:41:26.143 --> 00:41:28.143 That could be a teammate issue for all we know. 00:41:30.657 --> 00:41:32.677 So that's the one I'm hoping sticks the most. 00:41:33.017 --> 00:41:33.357 That hurts. 00:41:33.577 --> 00:41:34.717 No, no, probably NeoVim. 00:41:34.837 --> 00:41:35.997 Yeah, well, of course. I don't know what I'm doing. 00:41:36.117 --> 00:41:39.857 We should have you do like a little Vim training. Because they have like fun little- Oh. 00:41:39.857 --> 00:41:40.457 There's a Vim game. 00:41:40.557 --> 00:41:42.217 Right? Yeah, and we could record you trying it. 00:41:42.377 --> 00:41:42.697 Okay. 00:41:43.037 --> 00:41:45.257 It hurts. It hurts. Yeah, the text editor is so complicated, 00:41:45.317 --> 00:41:47.857 it needs a game. Okay. All right. 00:41:48.097 --> 00:41:49.817 But I have a second pick. 00:41:51.057 --> 00:41:53.017 Is it going to make Chris more or less upset? 00:41:53.937 --> 00:41:58.977 I'm hoping it soothes things. Okay. I think I'm hoping that Zelage sticks around for me. 00:41:59.137 --> 00:42:00.477 Oh, for sure. Yeah, for sure. 00:42:00.997 --> 00:42:01.937 I hope so too. 00:42:02.477 --> 00:42:06.697 I think email is going to be a big struggle You think you boys are kind of on the same page I would. 00:42:06.697 --> 00:42:10.857 Love for that to be a surprise But I do suspect that's when I will kick the bucket on. 00:42:10.857 --> 00:42:12.817 Are you going to give a Telegram client a go? 00:42:13.457 --> 00:42:16.537 Oh yeah I should I hadn't actually considered that but you're right. 00:42:17.337 --> 00:42:21.037 I've got a couple in the kittiest possibilities But they're all What I don't 00:42:21.037 --> 00:42:24.797 like about them Is they're multi-clients They're like WhatsApp and Telegram 00:42:24.797 --> 00:42:29.397 and other things all in one And I just want a Telegram client And I have not 00:42:29.397 --> 00:42:30.277 found it to a Telegram I wonder. 00:42:30.277 --> 00:42:32.857 How usable in Carbano it might be, the web version. 00:42:33.117 --> 00:42:37.077 Well, you remember there is like a command line version of Telegram? 00:42:37.177 --> 00:42:37.477 Yeah. 00:42:37.817 --> 00:42:41.457 Could just try going back to that. I used to use that. It's just very chatty. 00:42:41.817 --> 00:42:46.337 Okay, you set up a bridge to Matrix, and then you use GoMux too. 00:42:46.337 --> 00:42:51.217 Right, right. Okay, and then last but not least, do you think there could be any long-term gains? 00:42:52.117 --> 00:42:55.297 I know this is day one, but I want to revisit this next week. 00:42:56.897 --> 00:43:00.737 For me, it's maybe eliminate a couple of Electron apps Could be a big gain. 00:43:02.557 --> 00:43:07.197 I have surrendered to using webmail for everything. I don't like it. 00:43:08.077 --> 00:43:12.237 If I could actually switch to using email in the terminal, that, 00:43:12.497 --> 00:43:16.677 I don't, I think it's a long shot, but that would be huge for me. 00:43:17.297 --> 00:43:21.817 I think I'd love to see using something like Zellige to set up almost like a 00:43:21.817 --> 00:43:26.697 TUI dashboard. Like maybe there's a password manager always up in that particular 00:43:26.697 --> 00:43:31.737 session and there's, I don't know, a couple other tools that I just like having up. 00:43:31.917 --> 00:43:34.517 Are there any Home Assistant 2E viewer things? 00:43:34.917 --> 00:43:38.797 Oh, I didn't even think to look. Oh, there's so much to learn. 00:43:38.957 --> 00:43:42.457 So much to try. So here we go. We have the rules if you'd like to participate. 00:43:43.037 --> 00:43:45.497 And then we'll come back probably with the new apps we've discovered, 00:43:45.617 --> 00:43:50.377 the ones that didn't work and the ones that worked great and all of that in episode 619. 00:43:50.877 --> 00:43:54.977 So we'd love to hear your progress reports and how it ends up going for you. 00:43:55.177 --> 00:44:01.217 So to boost that in or if you email it, make sure you have hashtag 2E challenge in the subject line. 00:44:03.750 --> 00:44:08.430 Unraid.net slash unplugged. I am so thrilled and excited to introduce you to 00:44:08.430 --> 00:44:10.530 Unraid and have them on the Unplugged program. 00:44:10.690 --> 00:44:14.070 Great sponsor here. Now, if you're not familiar, Unraid is a powerful, 00:44:14.330 --> 00:44:17.710 easy to use NAS operating system based on Linux, modern Linux, 00:44:17.870 --> 00:44:22.010 for those who want control, flexibility, and efficiency in managing their own data. 00:44:22.210 --> 00:44:25.690 And Unraid allows users to mix and match drives of any size. 00:44:25.830 --> 00:44:29.170 You can build what you want with no restrictions so you can get started right 00:44:29.170 --> 00:44:33.210 now. You hear us talk about something excited, you can build on Unraid right now. 00:44:33.350 --> 00:44:37.110 It also includes built-in support for TailScale, so with a check of a box, 00:44:37.270 --> 00:44:39.910 you can bring your applications right into TailScale. 00:44:40.030 --> 00:44:41.890 No port forwarding on your firewall. 00:44:42.110 --> 00:44:45.230 No worrying about what your ISP IP is. 00:44:45.490 --> 00:44:49.750 Nothing like that needed. And with thousands of applications and a very active 00:44:49.750 --> 00:44:52.250 support network, I was blown away when I dipped my toes in there, 00:44:52.590 --> 00:44:56.010 Unraid helps you unleash the hardware's full potential that you have right now. 00:44:56.110 --> 00:44:58.870 And they have a 30-day free trial, which lets you test Unraid, 00:44:58.870 --> 00:44:59.970 no credit card required. 00:45:00.170 --> 00:45:04.870 You can check it out at unraid.net slash unplugged to see what you can build. 00:45:05.190 --> 00:45:08.410 And Unraid 7.1 makes building the ultimate home lab even better. 00:45:08.530 --> 00:45:12.770 If you have an Ubuntu box or a Proxmox box or a TrueNAS that's using ZFS and 00:45:12.770 --> 00:45:16.650 you want to migrate to something more powerful, 7.1 makes that so straightforward. 00:45:16.870 --> 00:45:21.270 Also built in wireless support, QXL virtual GPU support, and so much more. 00:45:21.710 --> 00:45:25.350 The great thing about Unraid is they have a path, they have a community, 00:45:25.350 --> 00:45:29.110 and they have a vision to keep building something that makes your home lab more 00:45:29.110 --> 00:45:31.790 powerful over time. Check it out and support the show. 00:45:31.970 --> 00:45:36.010 It's unraid.net slash unplugged. That mix and match so you can get started with 00:45:36.010 --> 00:45:38.230 the hardware you have right now, it's a game changer. 00:45:38.630 --> 00:45:40.910 Unraid.net slash unplugged. 00:45:44.084 --> 00:45:47.284 Well, Chris, I know several of your picks are a bit nostalgic, 00:45:47.284 --> 00:45:49.304 like using Midnight Commander, for instance. 00:45:49.684 --> 00:45:52.804 Still a great app, but, you know, it leans to the past a little bit. 00:45:52.944 --> 00:45:56.464 And there's a topic you want to share here that certainly leans to the past. 00:45:56.524 --> 00:45:59.104 Is he calling me old? I think he's legacy. 00:45:59.344 --> 00:45:59.604 Retro? 00:46:00.464 --> 00:46:00.864 Experienced. 00:46:01.184 --> 00:46:04.684 I was a little sad to note that after 25 years of publication, 00:46:04.964 --> 00:46:07.044 the Linux format is ceasing. 00:46:07.404 --> 00:46:10.824 And this was my favorite Linux magazine. 00:46:11.364 --> 00:46:14.924 It was a UK publication, so it cost a little bit more here in the States, 00:46:14.964 --> 00:46:20.124 but it was worth it because it came initially with CDs and eventually DVDs of Linux distros. 00:46:20.584 --> 00:46:23.304 And it's such a great way to experiment and try out new releases. 00:46:23.364 --> 00:46:25.184 And they had great coverage in there. 00:46:25.444 --> 00:46:30.364 But, you know, it reminded me that even after 25 years, and we're going on 18 00:46:30.364 --> 00:46:37.264 plus 19 years as Jupyter Broadcasting, even after 25 years, no one in the media space is safe. 00:46:37.904 --> 00:46:41.264 and I just I wanted to reflect on a couple of reasons at the macro level why 00:46:41.264 --> 00:46:45.464 I think they shut down I think a couple of the big ones that strike me is the 00:46:45.464 --> 00:46:50.724 magazine format unfortunately could not keep up with the internet by the time 00:46:50.724 --> 00:46:53.084 you got your magazine when you got your August issue, 00:46:53.584 --> 00:46:57.504 you knew everything it already that already happened in July and so the August 00:46:57.504 --> 00:47:01.304 issue was was already a month out of date and it was really hard for them to 00:47:01.304 --> 00:47:05.084 keep up with that And so I think that maybe stunted subscriber growth. 00:47:05.384 --> 00:47:15.144 Then additionally, they really relied heavily on advertising where podcasting 00:47:15.144 --> 00:47:18.084 could solve the delay, you know, 00:47:18.164 --> 00:47:20.524 because the podcasting can match the frequency of content. 00:47:20.524 --> 00:47:23.784 So we do a weekly show and something breaks this week. 00:47:23.904 --> 00:47:26.224 We'll cover it. We don't have to wait a month. 00:47:28.359 --> 00:47:31.739 Something that podcasting is making an area where we're making the same mistake 00:47:31.739 --> 00:47:33.699 is the over-indexing on advertising. 00:47:33.939 --> 00:47:35.939 And it gets to the point where when you're reading the magazine, 00:47:36.279 --> 00:47:39.159 the advertising to content ratio is just too damn high. 00:47:39.339 --> 00:47:41.399 And there are plenty of podcasts like that. 00:47:41.739 --> 00:47:46.139 It's what's happened to radio as well. In fact, I was telling Brent this morning, 00:47:46.339 --> 00:47:50.919 we have on ersatz TV, we have a bunch of old timey game shows. 00:47:51.019 --> 00:47:52.799 And one of them is Whose Line Is It Anyway? 00:47:53.279 --> 00:47:59.659 And this was like the very early days of television. and the ads are host-read like I do by the host. 00:48:00.659 --> 00:48:03.259 Like he tells, friends, let me tell you about this electric razor, 00:48:03.659 --> 00:48:06.339 right? And that's literally one of the ads and then they go back to the game. 00:48:06.919 --> 00:48:09.939 That's how television ads used to be and there was two ads and that was it. 00:48:10.079 --> 00:48:12.059 And they were done by the people in the show. 00:48:12.999 --> 00:48:15.839 And that's how radio was as well. That's why they did them that way because 00:48:15.839 --> 00:48:19.539 that was what they did in radio at the time. And we've seen how that's changed over time. 00:48:20.019 --> 00:48:23.479 And that has infected podcasting. It has infected YouTube. I mean, 00:48:23.739 --> 00:48:29.499 just about every YouTuber I watch has like a VPN sponsor or a supplement sponsor or something. 00:48:30.039 --> 00:48:33.339 You take your supplements and then you lay on your mattress and use your VPN. 00:48:33.499 --> 00:48:35.939 Oh, the mattress one too. Yeah, yeah. Especially in the RV ones. 00:48:36.019 --> 00:48:38.399 While you eat your, you know, pre-made dinner that gets delivered. 00:48:38.519 --> 00:48:39.579 Oh gosh, it's true. 00:48:39.939 --> 00:48:44.319 I mean, really. And so, you know, they over-indexed in the magazine business, 00:48:44.319 --> 00:48:48.139 just like podcasts are doing on advertising. They got the ratio off and then 00:48:48.139 --> 00:48:52.139 the advertisers left because they wanted to move on to different demographics 00:48:52.139 --> 00:48:53.799 because the tech industry is trendy. 00:48:54.399 --> 00:48:59.759 The tech industry thrives on the latest trends. And that means that the advertisers 00:48:59.759 --> 00:49:02.999 want to follow those trends because in theory, that's where the audience is at. 00:49:03.699 --> 00:49:06.839 And I think that same problem happened to magazines and it's happening to podcasts. 00:49:08.212 --> 00:49:10.952 Podcasts, though, have solutions that magazines don't have, right? 00:49:11.032 --> 00:49:14.012 We have value for value. We have a membership program. We have the boost. 00:49:14.992 --> 00:49:18.552 It doesn't sustain us, but it does put us in a different position. 00:49:18.552 --> 00:49:20.332 And we have solved the frequency problem. 00:49:20.672 --> 00:49:23.072 So I think we just have to close the gap on the rest of this, 00:49:23.152 --> 00:49:26.292 which means we need more people to understand why we do the value for value 00:49:26.292 --> 00:49:29.932 system, why we put it out there for free and ask if you get some value from it, you give it back. 00:49:30.092 --> 00:49:32.292 So that way the audience is the largest customer. 00:49:32.792 --> 00:49:35.772 If you were to think of this show as a magazine, and funny enough, 00:49:35.932 --> 00:49:38.952 it seems that we surpassed by a large margin. 00:49:39.412 --> 00:49:44.392 Linux formats distribution as of 2014 were larger, and I'm sure they only went down in size. 00:49:44.512 --> 00:49:49.252 So this show was larger than Linux magazine was in 2014, and we don't know what 00:49:49.252 --> 00:49:50.932 the numbers are after that, but probably less. 00:49:51.732 --> 00:49:55.152 And if you think about what that means, it means that we have an opportunity 00:49:55.152 --> 00:49:57.252 to make the audience the largest customer. 00:49:57.432 --> 00:50:00.312 We have to make the audience the focus for us to do good content. 00:50:00.312 --> 00:50:04.412 It's a much more virtuous cycle than the advertisement-based one because there's 00:50:04.412 --> 00:50:08.092 a scope creep there because the advertiser inevitably wants more. 00:50:08.272 --> 00:50:12.492 And it also gives flexibility for us to work with companies that we think are 00:50:12.492 --> 00:50:16.392 actually great, that will meet the terms and meet us where we want to meet them. 00:50:16.612 --> 00:50:19.472 You know, they're not sneaking things in. There's a lot of things that happen 00:50:19.472 --> 00:50:23.672 behind the scenes with these opaque advertising deals that we're just not okay with. 00:50:23.692 --> 00:50:28.112 And memberships and value for value give us the opportunity to say no. 00:50:28.672 --> 00:50:33.392 even when things are really lean even when there's times where we're barely making it like right now, 00:50:34.012 --> 00:50:36.912 you know we've had a couple of shows shut down so revenues dropped 00:50:36.912 --> 00:50:39.832 off but we haven't had to go running 00:50:39.832 --> 00:50:46.192 to you know like a boxed food sponsor so it means it means that perhaps if if 00:50:46.192 --> 00:50:50.672 enough of us get on board and want to keep content like this going it's there 00:50:50.672 --> 00:50:55.392 is a not only a community but a technology trajectory that perhaps can save 00:50:55.392 --> 00:50:56.932 us from the same fate the magazines reached. 00:50:57.732 --> 00:50:59.732 There are a couple of magazines still in production, right? 00:50:59.832 --> 00:51:02.472 Linux magazine is still going. The Raspberry Pi magazine is still going. 00:51:03.172 --> 00:51:05.652 Some of them have commercial interests behind them. That's why they go. 00:51:06.772 --> 00:51:09.752 But I wanted to give a send-off to Linux format because it's just been a hell 00:51:09.752 --> 00:51:11.532 of a magazine. I really love that one. 00:51:12.552 --> 00:51:15.572 Probably how I got started with Mandrake was because of Linux magazine. 00:51:15.712 --> 00:51:16.932 I'm not sure, but it's very possible. 00:51:17.212 --> 00:51:20.672 Maybe go look up the folks behind it and see what else they may be up to after. 00:51:26.932 --> 00:51:30.892 And The Dude Abides is our baller booster this week, speaking of value for value 00:51:30.892 --> 00:51:31.772 and supporting the show. 00:51:31.832 --> 00:51:35.532 And he came in with 77,722 sets. 00:51:44.183 --> 00:51:47.163 Oh, there's a Boosty's leaderboard, I hear. 00:51:47.583 --> 00:51:51.623 He says, nice idea on the disposable server as well. You could go as far as 00:51:51.623 --> 00:51:54.863 use Terraform so you don't even have to connect to the VPS console. 00:51:55.163 --> 00:51:55.583 Absolutely. 00:51:56.843 --> 00:52:02.503 By the way, what song generation services do you guys like? I think Suno's one 00:52:02.503 --> 00:52:04.423 of the best. I know there's several out there. 00:52:04.523 --> 00:52:05.963 Yeah, that's the only one I've tried so far. 00:52:06.063 --> 00:52:09.763 Oh, there's a few. It's becoming quite the category. You know, 00:52:09.883 --> 00:52:12.223 it is. So I'd love to hear suggestions. 00:52:13.443 --> 00:52:17.843 Turd ferguson boosts in with 33 222 sets, 00:52:20.603 --> 00:52:25.263 happy belated birthday to brent i bet you smell great oh. 00:52:25.263 --> 00:52:27.163 That's very sweet i'm kind of blushing. 00:52:27.683 --> 00:52:28.603 Used motor. 00:52:28.603 --> 00:52:29.603 Oil but that's you know. 00:52:29.603 --> 00:52:32.543 Some folks are into that and a little bit of gasoline although he tries not 00:52:32.543 --> 00:52:37.223 to yeah it was it was brent's birthday oh. 00:52:37.223 --> 00:52:38.023 Gee thanks, 00:52:42.643 --> 00:52:43.383 okay okay. 00:52:43.383 --> 00:52:45.103 That's all right all right get him out of here get him out of here. 00:52:45.863 --> 00:52:50.783 Okay chard busan what's your experience with pipewire bit a lot of recent linux 00:52:50.783 --> 00:52:54.243 audio critiques popping up uh with negative experiences. 00:52:54.243 --> 00:52:59.123 Ah good question i have i've seen a couple of articles going on hacker news 00:52:59.123 --> 00:53:02.383 about the linux audio experience is horrible have you seen those floating by 00:53:02.383 --> 00:53:05.763 oh one of them perennially one of them we had a good little discussion going 00:53:05.763 --> 00:53:08.143 in our private chat recently about one of the blog posts well. 00:53:08.143 --> 00:53:12.163 Because they seem to have outdated experiences here compared to what we're experiencing. 00:53:12.403 --> 00:53:15.783 Yeah, some of them are trashing pulse audio still and they don't even really 00:53:15.783 --> 00:53:19.283 know what they're trashing. And some folks are specifically targeting pipe wire. 00:53:20.052 --> 00:53:23.652 And we're all on Pipewire. We have been for a couple of years now, 00:53:23.672 --> 00:53:27.292 and we do some of our production on Pipewire, especially when we're remote. 00:53:27.592 --> 00:53:32.812 I swapped out a PopOS install to Pipewire before that was supported because I wanted it so bad. 00:53:33.332 --> 00:53:36.552 And our experiences have been, I think, I don't want to speak for you too, 00:53:36.732 --> 00:53:37.952 but I think very positive. 00:53:39.212 --> 00:53:45.172 I mean, what we ran into was Pipewire might do a default differently than how Jack Audio did it. 00:53:45.252 --> 00:53:47.892 But once you wrap your head around the way Pipewire does, you're like, 00:53:47.972 --> 00:53:49.472 oh, that's actually kind of a better way to do it. 00:53:49.472 --> 00:53:53.732 Yeah, it's not necessarily a complete drop in if you have advanced or complicated 00:53:53.732 --> 00:53:57.392 workflows, right, especially at the interface between pulse and jack, 00:53:57.532 --> 00:53:59.252 because in the old world, they were like separate. 00:53:59.412 --> 00:54:03.092 And you could have, you know, various things like a pulse plug in the bridge to jack. 00:54:03.832 --> 00:54:07.772 That's a very particular setup that by default, pipewire integrates things. 00:54:07.972 --> 00:54:12.212 And so you need to either recreate that or change, you know, 00:54:12.312 --> 00:54:13.232 how you've got things going. 00:54:13.372 --> 00:54:15.712 So there's definitely edge cases where I think people have had to adapt, 00:54:15.732 --> 00:54:17.432 or you may have to adapt if you transition. 00:54:17.432 --> 00:54:21.052 so i don't want to give the idea that it's like totally one-to-one 00:54:21.052 --> 00:54:24.432 but in terms of its actual like execution and 00:54:24.432 --> 00:54:28.152 what it's been able to do and especially now it was a little rough in the earlier 00:54:28.152 --> 00:54:32.212 days and there's still a long way to go but you know tools like qpw graph and 00:54:32.212 --> 00:54:36.412 others i think have gotten fairly robust like you know we were able to do our 00:54:36.412 --> 00:54:39.912 linux fast northwest streaming all through pipewire we set it up pretty darn 00:54:39.912 --> 00:54:43.372 quick and that was not the difficult part of the setup No. 00:54:44.292 --> 00:54:47.592 If you want to play around with it, go over to Flathub or whatever you like 00:54:47.592 --> 00:54:51.392 and search for Pipewire, and you'll see there's several GUIs that let you play 00:54:51.392 --> 00:54:54.132 around and connect application audio and things like that, and you'll start 00:54:54.132 --> 00:54:57.432 to, I think, get a real sense of the power of Pipewire. 00:54:57.932 --> 00:55:01.492 But as far as stability goes and things like that, it seems to be a net improvement 00:55:01.492 --> 00:55:04.952 over Pulse Audio, which was getting pretty tame towards the end of its run, too. 00:55:05.952 --> 00:55:11.312 Yeah, and if you knew what you were doing, you set up Pulse with good settings, and you got... 00:55:12.139 --> 00:55:15.919 setup and going good on your system it was a nice setup and you may have to 00:55:15.919 --> 00:55:19.219 do some stuff to recreate exactly that workflow in pipewire but just out of 00:55:19.219 --> 00:55:20.599 the box the fact that it unifies 00:55:21.039 --> 00:55:24.279 those worlds and prevents like a single pane of glass into what's going on with 00:55:24.279 --> 00:55:28.659 your audio and supports a lot of the pro audio workflows you do you may have 00:55:28.659 --> 00:55:31.739 to learn the pipewire configuration language if you really want to get deep 00:55:31.739 --> 00:55:36.019 into like you know setting up virtual devices or permanent setups but there's 00:55:36.019 --> 00:55:37.119 a lot of there's a lot more docs now. 00:55:37.119 --> 00:55:41.499 I wouldn't sleep too on the performance they've been able to eke out just really 00:55:41.499 --> 00:55:44.619 top-notch pro-level audio performance and then also, 00:55:45.819 --> 00:55:50.659 a real masterful swap out for the most part a real api compatible swap out of 00:55:50.659 --> 00:55:55.619 jack and pulse audio where you could go distro hop and not realize you switch 00:55:55.619 --> 00:55:57.999 from a pulse audio system to a pipe wire system for the most part. 00:55:57.999 --> 00:56:01.899 I felt like that was a bit of a golden example of moving to a new piece of tech 00:56:01.899 --> 00:56:05.559 like um just for instance the wayland transition was a. 00:56:05.559 --> 00:56:07.459 Bit rougher pipe. 00:56:07.459 --> 00:56:09.819 Just kind of happened and none of us really noticed. 00:56:10.199 --> 00:56:10.339 Yeah. 00:56:10.659 --> 00:56:13.499 It's also been very nice, I think, in particular for Bluetooth. 00:56:14.219 --> 00:56:14.439 Yes. 00:56:14.439 --> 00:56:16.939 Pipewire and Bluetooth is radically better. 00:56:17.419 --> 00:56:19.339 Yes. Better than, I think, any other OS. 00:56:19.459 --> 00:56:22.939 It's so great because I have Bluetooth connected just via KDE in the system 00:56:22.939 --> 00:56:26.859 and then I can have Reaper running via Jack, which actually goes to Pipewire 00:56:26.859 --> 00:56:30.659 routed for monitoring back in my Bluetooth headphones and it all works flawlessly. 00:56:30.759 --> 00:56:34.259 Yeah, and just call audio stuff, you know, they connect way more reliably, all that kind of stuff. 00:56:34.739 --> 00:56:41.639 Well, we have a boost here from user 56587013 for 5,100 sats. 00:56:44.219 --> 00:56:47.859 Sending my earned sats, I'll be switching phones and accounts. 00:56:48.379 --> 00:56:49.759 Thanks for the great shows. 00:56:50.139 --> 00:56:51.019 Congrats on the new phone. 00:56:51.199 --> 00:56:52.399 See you on the other side, we hope. 00:56:52.599 --> 00:56:56.139 Yeah, hopefully so. And thank you for thinking of us. 00:56:56.779 --> 00:57:00.719 Wes, you had a hot one too. So you had another hot ticket. Speaking of hot tickets. 00:57:03.367 --> 00:57:04.547 Bazite with Brent. 00:57:05.987 --> 00:57:06.767 Just saying. 00:57:07.327 --> 00:57:09.907 We just need to turn him into a hardcore gamer. He's almost there. 00:57:10.127 --> 00:57:11.887 I mean, he could use it as a non-gaming OS. 00:57:12.067 --> 00:57:17.567 I suppose so. Yeah, well, but I think he's so close to slipping in. He's so close. 00:57:18.387 --> 00:57:20.407 VHH32 is here with 5,000 sats. 00:57:23.207 --> 00:57:27.427 Guys, sorry I didn't get the video player ready in time. I'll keep working on it as I can. 00:57:28.087 --> 00:57:31.087 Also, I'd be happy to take some contributions from anyone who would like to 00:57:31.087 --> 00:57:33.947 help out. He'll link to it in the show notes, which is if you go search for 00:57:33.947 --> 00:57:38.307 BHH32 on GitHub, you'll find it. He says, I hope the TUI challenge goes well. 00:57:38.487 --> 00:57:42.707 Well, you're always welcome, BHH, to get it in while the challenge is going. And even if you don't. 00:57:42.707 --> 00:57:43.347 It's never too late. 00:57:43.527 --> 00:57:46.207 Even if you don't, after the challenge, we'll still make it a pick or something, right? 00:57:46.727 --> 00:57:50.447 I think we can make it a pick, boys. So thank you for the update, and good luck with that. 00:57:50.487 --> 00:57:55.907 And if anybody wants to help him with his TUI video player, go look up BHH32 on GitHub. 00:57:57.207 --> 00:58:00.207 Ambient noise boosts in with $3,930. 00:58:06.007 --> 00:58:08.787 my approach if i wanted to share my library with 00:58:08.787 --> 00:58:12.027 a non-techie friend jellyfin i assume is 00:58:12.027 --> 00:58:14.967 to use one of the micro pcs i have laying around buy 00:58:14.967 --> 00:58:20.307 a cheap bluetooth tv remote or air mouse load bazite kde wire guard to auto 00:58:20.307 --> 00:58:24.707 connect back to my home set firefox to launch full screen on startup set jellyfin 00:58:24.707 --> 00:58:29.607 to be the home page and put the jellyfin client into tv mode like a good old-fashioned 00:58:29.607 --> 00:58:32.487 tv set top box this is great yeah. 00:58:32.487 --> 00:58:37.127 That's a system that's a that's a full-on process you can make a checklist around that. 00:58:37.127 --> 00:58:39.447 Build build a golden image roll it out yeah. 00:58:39.447 --> 00:58:43.987 Interesting i love all the different ideas that we saw pop up over the week 00:58:43.987 --> 00:58:47.387 of different ways to do disposable servers everybody has taken a crack at this 00:58:47.387 --> 00:58:50.147 or not everybody but a lot of people have taken a crack at trying to solve this 00:58:50.147 --> 00:58:53.887 with jellyfin in particular i think if somebody came along and developed uh 00:58:53.887 --> 00:58:56.087 friend sharing with jellyfin ala plex. 00:58:56.087 --> 00:58:57.627 There might be some interest yeah. 00:58:57.627 --> 00:58:58.767 Yeah for sure. 00:58:58.767 --> 00:59:01.827 Well pod bun sent in 5 000 sets, 00:59:03.422 --> 00:59:07.522 It's always great to hear that you boys use the stuff that you sponsor. 00:59:08.322 --> 00:59:11.982 I'm sure that there are plenty of sponsorships you could take where you say 00:59:11.982 --> 00:59:17.102 how great it is and you don't actually use the product. But here at JB, we actually use it. 00:59:17.582 --> 00:59:22.082 So there's a few ways this works. There's a spray and pray advertiser out there 00:59:22.082 --> 00:59:27.342 and they mass email any podcaster that gets on their list. And if you bite, 00:59:27.462 --> 00:59:28.482 they'll do a deal with you. 00:59:28.702 --> 00:59:32.762 And there's really, there's only the conversation is around the terms of the deal. 00:59:33.282 --> 00:59:36.142 No conversation around the product. They don't tell you anything about the product. 00:59:36.242 --> 00:59:39.202 There's no education around the product. There's no demo. 00:59:39.702 --> 00:59:43.722 They just give you the talking points. You don't even see the website until 00:59:43.722 --> 00:59:45.562 you get the talking points, and then you get the URL. 00:59:46.202 --> 00:59:49.662 That's the most common deal in podcasting. And then there's our type of deal 00:59:49.662 --> 00:59:53.242 where we often reach out or they reach out to us because they're a listener. 00:59:53.842 --> 00:59:58.342 And then we talk to them. We try it out or we already use it, 00:59:58.422 --> 01:00:00.342 and that's why they reach out to us, which is pretty common. 01:00:00.342 --> 01:00:04.002 and then we make sure it actually works and it fits with something we would 01:00:04.002 --> 01:00:06.582 use, something the audience we think would use, because if they wouldn't, 01:00:06.622 --> 01:00:08.142 then there's no point in having them as a sponsor. 01:00:08.282 --> 01:00:11.342 So it's a much more in-depth process and the sponsors these days hate that. 01:00:12.062 --> 01:00:12.702 Yeah, they do. 01:00:13.762 --> 01:00:20.262 Thank you. Appreciate the boosts. Firefly Go is here with 4,000 sats. 01:00:24.202 --> 01:00:27.342 Please keep the Red Hat content going. Having drifted away from it in the last 01:00:27.342 --> 01:00:30.482 few years, I'd love to hear more about it, not just as a desktop user, 01:00:30.622 --> 01:00:34.982 but as a server and how the image-based approach could work for the Homelab. Thanks. 01:00:35.462 --> 01:00:38.562 That's good feedback. I'd be curious to know what you think, 01:00:38.662 --> 01:00:43.822 Firefly, and others about us doing an episode or two on OpenShift virtualization, 01:00:43.822 --> 01:00:48.302 because they are making a hard push right now to have an answer to VMware. 01:00:48.702 --> 01:00:53.362 And I think it also, with the new dashboard they have, is a contender for Proxmox. 01:00:54.462 --> 01:00:58.902 So we'd love to know if there's interest in us trying out the OpenShift virtualization stuff. 01:00:59.262 --> 01:01:07.322 Look at Chris. He just wants to virtualize. You can see it. Free KVH boosts in with 8,472 SATs. 01:01:08.782 --> 01:01:13.182 Nice that you're moving on from NixOS. You leave a deep understanding of different 01:01:13.182 --> 01:01:15.262 computing concepts in your ADD wake. 01:01:15.542 --> 01:01:19.782 Most of my repos now have a shell.nix setting paths and installing dependencies 01:01:19.782 --> 01:01:21.362 to get going super quick. 01:01:21.582 --> 01:01:24.882 So I'm curious to learn if I'll follow you down this new path again. 01:01:25.362 --> 01:01:31.502 By the way, this is not a zip code boost, but a species designation boost. Love you guys. 01:01:31.582 --> 01:01:32.022 Keep it up. 01:01:34.502 --> 01:01:37.302 I see species 8472. 01:01:38.422 --> 01:01:39.262 The one and only. 01:01:39.342 --> 01:01:44.062 I'm on to him. That's pretty great. Yeah, you know, so far it has been a big 01:01:44.062 --> 01:01:46.562 shift, and some of it's been painful. 01:01:47.262 --> 01:01:50.982 But every now and then a workflow clicks, and I'm like, oh, crap, this is nice. 01:01:51.542 --> 01:01:55.862 So I'm hoping I stack more of those as the week goes on. you know it's early days we'll see. 01:01:55.862 --> 01:01:59.462 Well outdoor geek came around left 5 000 sets, 01:02:02.042 --> 01:02:10.242 The KSMBD CVE, which is number 37899, mentioned in the live feed, is also an AI story. 01:02:10.402 --> 01:02:15.542 Right, so quick pause. This is Samsung-sponsored development of a Samba server 01:02:15.542 --> 01:02:18.222 for their Android devices to get built into the Linux kernel. 01:02:18.422 --> 01:02:22.602 And then surprise, surprise, there's a remote code execution vulnerability in 01:02:22.602 --> 01:02:24.622 the Samba server built into the Linux kernel. 01:02:24.742 --> 01:02:27.062 That's why we call you Chris KSMBD Fisher. 01:02:27.062 --> 01:02:31.522 Sean was benchmarking OpenAI's O3's ability to find a vulnerability that they 01:02:31.522 --> 01:02:34.142 already knew about when it found this CV. 01:02:34.402 --> 01:02:40.982 Also note the false positives rate is very high. They indicate a signal-to-noise ratio of about 1 to 50. 01:02:41.542 --> 01:02:45.282 Yeah, right. So as you might suspect, it's more in the, okay, 01:02:45.442 --> 01:02:48.862 so like an experienced security researcher might be able to use this as a tool 01:02:48.862 --> 01:02:53.962 and not in the, anyone can walk up to a LLM and get legit security vulnerabilities. 01:02:53.962 --> 01:02:56.702 Yeah well i mean i suppose if you 01:02:56.702 --> 01:02:59.382 could then farm those out and have a 01:02:59.382 --> 01:03:02.102 human go over it boy that sounds like reviewing ai slop sounds like 01:03:02.102 --> 01:03:04.882 a real bad job though but interesting thank you 01:03:04.882 --> 01:03:08.782 for pointing out that angle that is good to know tomato's here with 5 000 sats 01:03:08.782 --> 01:03:13.482 thanks for the great coverage of red hat summit i'm looking forward to finishing 01:03:13.482 --> 01:03:17.222 the tui challenge in sync with the rest of you that's great nice we really appreciate 01:03:17.222 --> 01:03:20.022 that signal you know those things are we're never really sure so we appreciate 01:03:20.022 --> 01:03:23.682 that and glad to have you on boa for the challenge too tomato and. 01:03:23.682 --> 01:03:27.522 Jordan bravo boost in with 1111 sats. 01:03:27.522 --> 01:03:31.682 Yep that's right we have the boost on sale we could do it for one more week 01:03:31.682 --> 01:03:35.322 a thousand sats is a two thousand is usually the cutoff but we're putting them 01:03:35.322 --> 01:03:36.742 on sale at one thousand sats. 01:03:36.742 --> 01:03:38.042 Woohoo boost on sale. 01:03:38.042 --> 01:03:39.162 Chris sorry. 01:03:39.162 --> 01:03:41.902 To hear you bailing on nix os but at least you're sticking with an atomic and 01:03:41.902 --> 01:03:47.002 immutable distro hopefully wes will keep us nix heads up to speed i'll do my best. 01:03:47.002 --> 01:03:52.822 Yeah you definitely will i tell you what yeah jordan bravo thank you i'll report 01:03:52.822 --> 01:03:53.942 in on how it's going in the future. 01:03:53.942 --> 01:03:57.862 Well moon and i also passed the cutoff with a thousand sats. 01:04:01.670 --> 01:04:03.630 Hank's confused 1,000 sats. 01:04:04.170 --> 01:04:08.330 My vote is to keep doing conference coverage. I don't go to these sorts of things 01:04:08.330 --> 01:04:12.330 or follow any news, so it's great to hear what's going on from you guys. 01:04:12.830 --> 01:04:14.370 That's useful. Thank you for the feedback. 01:04:14.630 --> 01:04:19.570 Yeah, really. Thank you, Moon Knight. Nice to hear from you as well. We appreciate you. 01:04:21.570 --> 01:04:24.730 Thank you for boosting. We're going to do one more week, and that's it. 01:04:24.930 --> 01:04:28.890 If you'd like to boost in, the sat cutoff will be 1,000 sats, just to help everybody. 01:04:29.030 --> 01:04:29.750 Dip your toes in. 01:04:29.810 --> 01:04:33.050 A little bit to dip your toes in, try it out. The easiest way to really get 01:04:33.050 --> 01:04:36.510 involved is Fountain FM because they host the Lightning Walt for you. 01:04:36.610 --> 01:04:40.050 They make it simple to integrate with Strike, and they have other methods coming 01:04:40.050 --> 01:04:41.050 soon to make it even easier. 01:04:41.570 --> 01:04:46.390 Fountain also has recently had some very nice UI updates, some back-end changes, 01:04:46.450 --> 01:04:48.570 and even more UI changes on the way. 01:04:48.610 --> 01:04:52.050 So if you haven't checked out Fountain FM, we're having some issues, 01:04:52.050 --> 01:04:54.090 some bugs, give it another go. 01:04:54.230 --> 01:04:57.270 It's unbelievable what the team has been up to. 01:04:57.610 --> 01:05:01.630 Very, very impressed. Now, thank you, everybody who supported this here show. 01:05:01.810 --> 01:05:05.570 When you look at the SAT streamers, we had 30 of you streaming SATs as you listen 01:05:05.570 --> 01:05:12.430 to this podcast, or actually the last podcast, and you streamed 57,782 SATs to the show. 01:05:12.670 --> 01:05:15.990 Thank you, SAT streamers. When you combine that with our boosters, 01:05:16.370 --> 01:05:21.230 we stacked a grand total of 215,672 SATs. 01:05:22.290 --> 01:05:26.450 And, of course, we take advantage of the splits in the value for value block. 01:05:26.450 --> 01:05:30.290 So a portion of your boost goes to Editor Drew, the podcast index, 01:05:30.490 --> 01:05:35.170 the creators of the app that you boost from, as well as to each one of us directly. 01:05:35.310 --> 01:05:38.810 So you support the entire ecosystem and each episode with a boost. 01:05:48.818 --> 01:05:53.058 Now, we have two picks before we get out of here. One of them is on theme, 01:05:53.098 --> 01:05:55.418 but one of them could kind of be on theme as well. 01:05:55.538 --> 01:05:58.398 But let's start with Tempe, because if you're in the browser, 01:05:58.538 --> 01:06:00.138 you're probably going to want to check on the weather. 01:06:00.378 --> 01:06:04.818 And Tempe is a simple, visually pleasing weather report in your terminal. 01:06:05.678 --> 01:06:06.918 Ooh, this looks nice. 01:06:07.058 --> 01:06:11.438 Yep, MIT licensed. There's a couple of these, but this is the one that I kind of like the best. 01:06:11.618 --> 01:06:17.298 Yeah, it's a little more full-featured. I've been using so far the WTTR.in website 01:06:17.298 --> 01:06:19.438 that you can curl and it'll give you a little terminal display. 01:06:19.538 --> 01:06:19.938 That's neat too. 01:06:19.978 --> 01:06:24.278 But I think they only license like three days of data. And so you kind of just, you get what you get. 01:06:24.578 --> 01:06:30.598 Now, the second pick, we've been taking a crack at this theme for a long time now, a while. 01:06:31.038 --> 01:06:34.738 And it's downloading YouTube videos and playlists and whatnot, 01:06:34.918 --> 01:06:40.218 scheduling downloads in a way that is simple, either for ongoing use or single shot. 01:06:40.218 --> 01:06:43.138 We almost changed the name of the show to YTDLP Unplugged. 01:06:43.278 --> 01:06:47.498 So this week, maybe it's the last one in the series, it is YTP Tube. 01:06:47.758 --> 01:06:52.458 It's a web GUI for YouTube DLP that supports concurrent downloads, 01:06:52.738 --> 01:06:54.098 presets, and scheduled tasks. 01:06:54.298 --> 01:06:56.938 And it's a pretty straightforward web-based UI. 01:06:57.398 --> 01:07:00.638 You could put it on any of your machines, and then you load it up, 01:07:00.738 --> 01:07:02.558 you queue up the thing you want, and it just goes. 01:07:02.698 --> 01:07:06.458 So maybe you just install this on your Jellyfin server. And you point the download 01:07:06.458 --> 01:07:10.078 directory at the YouTube directory, the Jellyfin monitors. and you could just 01:07:10.078 --> 01:07:11.918 pull this up on your phone, paste 01:07:11.918 --> 01:07:15.078 in the URL or pull it up on your machine and it goes off to the races. 01:07:15.378 --> 01:07:18.398 And it supports downloading entire playlists, entire channels. 01:07:18.598 --> 01:07:20.358 It'll also capture live streams. 01:07:21.638 --> 01:07:23.218 So you can watch our live stream. 01:07:23.378 --> 01:07:26.658 And it also supports different notification platforms. It has a built-in video 01:07:26.658 --> 01:07:29.178 player if you just want to watch it back in the web browser locally. 01:07:29.678 --> 01:07:34.578 So it's YTP Tube and I'll have a link in the show notes. It's also MIT licensed. 01:07:35.158 --> 01:07:39.578 So I don't know, maybe you use one of our web browser terminal apps to load 01:07:39.578 --> 01:07:43.638 this thing up and then if BHH gets his video player working you could watch 01:07:43.638 --> 01:07:44.518 your vidges on the terminal. 01:07:44.758 --> 01:07:47.038 It's all possible. You never know. 01:07:48.050 --> 01:07:51.490 I, I'm feeling like you don't love my picks, boys. You don't love my picks. 01:07:51.630 --> 01:07:52.530 I do. I do. 01:07:52.650 --> 01:07:53.190 You don't love them. 01:07:53.310 --> 01:07:56.430 Well, I'm a little thrown off because the second one I got to like get Carbano 01:07:56.430 --> 01:07:59.610 going again to check out, but I like Tempe. Tempe, I'm, I'm here for Tempe. 01:07:59.710 --> 01:08:02.130 Yeah, you actually, you do like Tempe. I could tell you did like Tempe. 01:08:02.250 --> 01:08:03.510 All right. I'll take what I can get. 01:08:03.950 --> 01:08:05.970 Brent, he's just skeptical. Skeptical Brent. 01:08:06.130 --> 01:08:07.990 Yeah, he is. It's probably because he's getting hungry. 01:08:08.230 --> 01:08:11.250 No, I just started thinking I usually check the weather on my phone and maybe 01:08:11.250 --> 01:08:15.990 because we're here now, maybe I could just run terminals on my phone too. 01:08:16.590 --> 01:08:17.230 You could. 01:08:17.230 --> 01:08:18.930 And do it that way, but... 01:08:18.930 --> 01:08:20.510 That might be worth some bonus points. I don't know. 01:08:20.510 --> 01:08:20.950 Okay, all right. 01:08:21.130 --> 01:08:23.610 You'd have to ask the advisory committee next week. That's right. 01:08:23.690 --> 01:08:27.570 The TUI Challenge will wrap up next week, so send your progress and your results 01:08:27.570 --> 01:08:30.690 into the show, either via boost or by email. 01:08:30.930 --> 01:08:34.450 If you do an email, make sure you put hashtag TUI Challenge in that email so 01:08:34.450 --> 01:08:37.650 we can read them on the show because not only do we want to share our experiences, 01:08:37.650 --> 01:08:40.910 of course, but we want to share your experiences as well. 01:08:41.330 --> 01:08:45.010 And now we're back to our regular live schedule so you can make it a Linux Tuesday 01:08:45.010 --> 01:08:48.470 on a Sunday. Join us Sundays at 10 a.m. Pacific, 1 p.m. 01:08:48.670 --> 01:08:51.850 Eastern over at jblive.tv or jblive.fm. 01:08:55.590 --> 01:08:58.470 Now if you want more show our luplug gets 01:08:58.470 --> 01:09:02.610 together and we record more content sometimes double the content for our members 01:09:02.610 --> 01:09:07.830 also we have chapters and we also have transcripts so you can replay or skip 01:09:07.830 --> 01:09:11.130 a section you don't like and you can get the transcript of it too so if you 01:09:11.130 --> 01:09:14.530 want to know what we said or what we called something or what the crazy thing 01:09:14.530 --> 01:09:16.370 i said was you can read it right there in the transcript. 01:09:16.550 --> 01:09:18.870 You just need a podcasting 2.0 app for that. 01:09:19.290 --> 01:09:22.050 Links to everything we talked about today and how to contact us, 01:09:22.110 --> 01:09:26.750 our mumble room, our matrix, and all of that, even our RSS feed over at linuxunplugged.com. 01:09:27.110 --> 01:09:29.770 Thank you so much for joining us on this week, and we'll see you right back 01:09:29.770 --> 01:09:32.430 here next Tuesday as in Sunday. 01:09:35.190 --> 01:09:35.570 Yeah!
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