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The Trouble with TUIs

Jun 15, 2025
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We spent the week learning keybindings, installing dependencies, and cramming for bonus points. Today, we score up and see how we did in the TUI Challenge.

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Transcript

WEBVTT 00:00:00.005 --> 00:00:01.865 How much caffeine does this actually have? 00:00:01.985 --> 00:00:03.725 Not enough. Let's do a simultaneous sip. You ready? 00:00:03.805 --> 00:00:04.185 Here we go. 00:00:05.165 --> 00:00:06.265 Three, two, cheers. 00:00:07.265 --> 00:00:08.325 Oh, it's so sweet. 00:00:08.925 --> 00:00:09.825 It's sugar-free! 00:00:10.105 --> 00:00:11.425 That doesn't mean it's not sweet. 00:00:24.445 --> 00:00:29.325 Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. 00:00:29.325 --> 00:00:30.305 My name is Wes. 00:00:30.445 --> 00:00:31.145 And my name is Brent. 00:00:31.285 --> 00:00:35.065 Hello, gentlemen. Well, we have spent the week trying to figure out how to exit 00:00:35.065 --> 00:00:38.725 apps, install dependencies, and try to earn a few bonus points. 00:00:38.725 --> 00:00:42.505 Because today is the conclusion of our TUI challenge. 00:00:42.705 --> 00:00:46.065 We're going to score up how we did and own up to it live on the show. 00:00:47.245 --> 00:00:50.565 And, of course, we'll read some of your challenge reports as well. 00:00:50.745 --> 00:00:53.125 Then we're going to round it all out with some great boosts, 00:00:53.305 --> 00:00:57.985 some picks, and more. So before we go any further, let's say time-appropriate 00:00:57.985 --> 00:01:00.205 greetings to our virtual log. Hello, Mumble Room. 00:01:00.825 --> 00:01:05.065 Hello. Hey, Chris. Hey, Wes. And hello, Brent. Hello. Got a nice tight crew on air. 00:01:05.105 --> 00:01:10.305 And hello, everybody up there in the quiet listening stadium in the special seats. 00:01:10.805 --> 00:01:14.685 Brent will be serving hot dogs later. Don't forget about that. 00:01:14.745 --> 00:01:15.925 They're veggie dogs, but still good. 00:01:16.345 --> 00:01:20.725 And a big good morning to our friends over at Tailscale. Tailscale.com slash 00:01:20.725 --> 00:01:25.385 unplugged. Go there to get it for free on 100 devices and three users, 00:01:25.565 --> 00:01:26.925 no credit card required. 00:01:27.465 --> 00:01:31.405 Tailscale is modern networking for connecting your devices securely directly 00:01:31.405 --> 00:01:34.145 to each other. It's great for companies and it's great for self-hosters. 00:01:34.325 --> 00:01:39.045 And it's powered by... Yeah, it builds out a flat mesh network. 00:01:39.205 --> 00:01:43.545 Secure remote access to your production systems, your databases, whatever it might be. 00:01:43.665 --> 00:01:47.305 And it's fast, really fast. And it's privacy for individuals and it's privacy 00:01:47.305 --> 00:01:48.625 for entire organizations. 00:01:49.485 --> 00:01:53.545 You can get up and running in no time. It's programmable networking that'll 00:01:53.545 --> 00:01:55.625 integrate with your existing authentication infrastructure. 00:01:55.885 --> 00:01:59.285 There's permissions you can set. There's multiple user parameters you can provide. 00:01:59.425 --> 00:02:03.165 And there's so many great features like Tailscale Send, which allows you to 00:02:03.165 --> 00:02:06.845 move files between all your different Tailnet devices, sort of like AirDrop, 00:02:06.905 --> 00:02:12.105 but for everything from like a Linux box to a Mac. It's magic. It can actually be done. 00:02:12.345 --> 00:02:16.165 It's a really cool application and tons of little things that you can build 00:02:16.165 --> 00:02:20.985 on top of Tailscale. So all of my container applications fire up a sidecar container, 00:02:21.185 --> 00:02:22.545 which then connects to my tail net. 00:02:22.665 --> 00:02:25.925 So each application gets its own IP, gets its own DNS name. 00:02:26.085 --> 00:02:31.445 And so I just go to something like code.mydnsname.com and it loads VS Code wherever 00:02:31.445 --> 00:02:32.825 I'm at as long as I'm on my tail net. 00:02:32.905 --> 00:02:38.225 There's a whole ecosystem of great tools. There's like tail scale aware proxies. It's rad. 00:02:38.365 --> 00:02:43.025 It's getting better every day too. So go get it for free on 100 devices and 00:02:43.025 --> 00:02:47.305 up to three users at tailscale.com slash unplugged. It's great for companies. 00:02:47.465 --> 00:02:48.245 It's great for individuals. 00:02:48.485 --> 00:02:51.305 Thousands of companies use it. Thousands of people in our audience use it too. 00:02:51.765 --> 00:02:56.945 So try it for yourself or a business. Just get started at tailscale.com slash unplugged. 00:02:59.665 --> 00:03:03.245 I don't have much in here. Just a reminder, there are a few calls for papers 00:03:03.245 --> 00:03:05.765 open. We have those linked in last week's show notes. 00:03:05.965 --> 00:03:08.045 And I just wanted to say a happy Father's Day. 00:03:08.265 --> 00:03:09.565 Hey, happy Father's Day to you. 00:03:09.745 --> 00:03:12.485 Oh, thank you. Yeah, happy Father's Day to all the dads out there, really. 00:03:13.285 --> 00:03:16.885 Doing the show on a Sunday, so I did my Father's Day festivities last night. 00:03:17.045 --> 00:03:20.705 It was nice. And we're going to have the leftovers for lunch today after the show. 00:03:20.905 --> 00:03:21.245 Oh, hey-o. 00:03:21.405 --> 00:03:24.985 Yeah, so you know it was a good meal. We had some steaks and we have some leftovers. 00:03:28.005 --> 00:03:31.405 So for the last seven days, we've been living in the terminal, 00:03:31.925 --> 00:03:33.585 trying to do everyday tasks. 00:03:33.925 --> 00:03:35.625 And now have more gray hairs. 00:03:35.765 --> 00:03:39.585 That is true. And many of you listening have joined us. Collectively, 00:03:39.585 --> 00:03:42.565 we've all spent many days in the terminal this week. 00:03:43.145 --> 00:03:46.005 And I hope that those of you who are listening after the fact are still going 00:03:46.005 --> 00:03:48.365 to give this a try and then check in and let us know how you did. 00:03:48.385 --> 00:03:50.365 We want to know even down the road how it went for you. 00:03:51.045 --> 00:03:55.605 So let's start with a listener check-in. This is a great email. 00:03:55.845 --> 00:04:00.305 And Brent, you met this listener. They're a long-time listener. And we got a full report. 00:04:00.565 --> 00:04:04.645 Yeah, this is Darnier, who I've met several times in Berlin when I've been there. 00:04:04.725 --> 00:04:06.165 You guys should go sometime. 00:04:06.365 --> 00:04:06.425 Oh, yeah. 00:04:06.505 --> 00:04:07.685 There's some great listeners over there. 00:04:07.885 --> 00:04:08.225 Yeah, we should. 00:04:08.625 --> 00:04:12.965 So Darnier sends a variety of emails because they sent in their TUI results 00:04:12.965 --> 00:04:18.365 via Git patches, sent in via email to our dear Linux Unplugged. 00:04:18.485 --> 00:04:18.925 Amazing. 00:04:19.225 --> 00:04:22.765 But here's the intro, at least. Hello, JB. Very long-time listener. 00:04:22.765 --> 00:04:24.025 Your first email, though. 00:04:24.565 --> 00:04:26.045 Not your oldest lister, I'm sure, 00:04:26.205 --> 00:04:30.045 but I remember watching the Linux action show on YouTube back in 2010. 00:04:30.785 --> 00:04:34.925 And have since followed JB through LAN, Coda Radio, self-hosted, 00:04:35.065 --> 00:04:36.505 and of course Linux Unplugged. 00:04:36.605 --> 00:04:37.165 Thank you, sir. 00:04:37.465 --> 00:04:37.885 Amazing. 00:04:38.665 --> 00:04:42.865 I've been a member for as long as I can remember, but never actually wrote into the show. 00:04:43.265 --> 00:04:48.005 Well, you all finally did it. You made me write in by doing the TUI challenge. 00:04:48.405 --> 00:04:50.425 This is something very close to me. 00:04:50.845 --> 00:04:55.925 As a little bit of a background, I fell in love with 2Es when I did a 2E challenge about 13 years ago. 00:04:56.698 --> 00:05:00.458 back then my friends and i uninstalled xorg entirely 00:05:00.458 --> 00:05:03.618 living purely in the linux console and forced ourselves 00:05:03.618 --> 00:05:08.718 to find ways to get things done amazing my current music setup with mpd still 00:05:08.718 --> 00:05:14.598 uses parts of that original mpd.conf just you know on a different machine today 00:05:14.598 --> 00:05:19.358 i live in the terminal most of the tui challenge therefore wasn't much of a 00:05:19.358 --> 00:05:21.118 challenge just daily life for me, 00:05:21.698 --> 00:05:26.198 Only web browsing and music playback are the categories that I usually use a GUI for. 00:05:26.618 --> 00:05:30.698 However, for honesty's sake, I continue using a web browser at work. 00:05:30.958 --> 00:05:36.158 I don't have a way around that or around using MS Teams as a GUI for video calls. 00:05:36.298 --> 00:05:41.818 At home, though, I've shifted 100% to TUIs since last week, and only web browsing 00:05:41.818 --> 00:05:43.978 has been the pain in the ass. 00:05:44.898 --> 00:05:49.178 Modern web is much worse to load in a TUI compared to 13 years ago. 00:05:49.478 --> 00:05:50.458 That is the truth. 00:05:50.458 --> 00:05:54.358 I hope you enjoy reading the rest of these emails, which are long, 00:05:54.558 --> 00:05:58.498 as much as I've enjoyed listening to you over the years. 00:05:58.758 --> 00:06:05.758 They scored themselves as we encouraged. And, you know, what I did is I took 00:06:05.758 --> 00:06:10.558 the TUI challenge rules and I said, hey, chatbot, make a scorecard out of this. 00:06:10.618 --> 00:06:11.558 Yeah, you should have known. 00:06:11.818 --> 00:06:16.658 I should have known better. I was moving quick. You know, I was trying to 10x my productivity. 00:06:17.018 --> 00:06:20.098 You know, I wanted to be a 10x guy. um so 00:06:20.098 --> 00:06:23.038 but that said i mean 00:06:23.038 --> 00:06:25.858 darnir just crushed this right because he got all of 00:06:25.858 --> 00:06:28.798 the primary points text editing email management 00:06:28.798 --> 00:06:31.898 web browsing music playback file management task management system monitoring 00:06:31.898 --> 00:06:37.218 and terminal multitasking and he got all the bonus points so he has like a score 00:06:37.218 --> 00:06:43.538 of like the max 220 i think is the max it is yeah that's incredible so right 00:06:43.538 --> 00:06:46.578 there i think he's gonna He walks away right there as one of the winners. 00:06:46.818 --> 00:06:47.658 Well deserved. 00:06:48.258 --> 00:06:52.738 This is the challenge he was built for. I love that he did this on his own 13 years ago. 00:06:53.158 --> 00:06:56.418 Darnier also left us a little hidden Easter egg in the emails, 00:06:56.438 --> 00:07:01.038 which we touched on in the members feed, which was a really sweet gesture. Thank you, Darnier. 00:07:01.358 --> 00:07:05.138 Yes, and thank you for listening for so long and for finally checking in. Glad we got you. 00:07:05.858 --> 00:07:12.818 Finally, we got you. Now, we, it hasn't been going as well for us. 00:07:12.818 --> 00:07:14.858 At times, it's been a little rough. 00:07:14.978 --> 00:07:15.858 You don't sound so confident. 00:07:16.158 --> 00:07:21.678 Yeah. And about midweek, I could tell the frustrations were rising amongst me and the boys. 00:07:21.858 --> 00:07:26.758 So I figured it's only fair. We got to capture the bad and the good on the show. 00:07:26.758 --> 00:07:31.658 So let's sit down and capture this. So earlier this week, we did just that. 00:07:35.289 --> 00:07:40.269 Yep. So it's midweek and we thought maybe we should do a check-in because at 00:07:40.269 --> 00:07:44.489 least two out of three of us, I'm not sure about all three of us, are feeling pretty bad. 00:07:44.649 --> 00:07:50.689 And I'll say myself, I'm feeling frustrated, like I am beelining for a failure 00:07:50.689 --> 00:07:56.209 here. And it's not for any of the reasons I expected, which is why it makes me frustrated. 00:07:56.849 --> 00:08:00.849 You know, so I'll get to that. But how are you doing over there, Mr. Brantley? 00:08:01.349 --> 00:08:03.969 Well, I wrote down a couple notes before we sat down to record this, 00:08:04.109 --> 00:08:06.629 and the very first word in the note is frustrated. 00:08:06.909 --> 00:08:07.509 Oh, really? 00:08:07.749 --> 00:08:09.189 But I also added desperate. 00:08:09.969 --> 00:08:10.729 Desperate, uh-oh. 00:08:10.929 --> 00:08:16.169 And then the realization that I, previous to this challenge, was so cozy. 00:08:16.329 --> 00:08:19.009 And now I'm very much not cozy. 00:08:19.149 --> 00:08:20.369 You didn't know how good you had it, did you? 00:08:20.789 --> 00:08:23.829 I didn't really realize it. I guess I should have seen that coming, 00:08:24.049 --> 00:08:30.409 but I figured, oh, yeah, I use the terminal every day to do a bunch of stuff, but it's rough. 00:08:30.409 --> 00:08:33.489 What in particular has struck you as the roughest bit? 00:08:34.269 --> 00:08:36.789 Well, I've taken something like... 00:08:38.012 --> 00:08:43.052 at least two days to try to choose a text editor that just does markdown highlighting by default. 00:08:44.672 --> 00:08:48.652 And I think today I might have found one. So there's that. 00:08:49.012 --> 00:08:54.012 Took me a little while to try to escape out of some of them. 00:08:54.192 --> 00:08:56.592 So Nano's not the only one that... 00:08:56.592 --> 00:08:59.492 You use an editor, right? I thought you were an editor guy now. 00:08:59.692 --> 00:09:01.972 I built you that custom version of it. 00:09:02.672 --> 00:09:04.532 Right. Big NeoVim guy. 00:09:06.012 --> 00:09:09.092 Well there's what i said previous to the challenge starting 00:09:09.092 --> 00:09:12.052 and my hopes and dreams and uh now 00:09:12.052 --> 00:09:15.252 that we're midweek i am drastically changing 00:09:15.252 --> 00:09:18.052 my expectations of what i'm supposed to 00:09:18.052 --> 00:09:21.812 be getting out of this challenge i thought you know had these big dreams of 00:09:21.812 --> 00:09:26.372 yeah i'm gonna learn vim bindings and that's gonna last me the rest of my life 00:09:26.372 --> 00:09:31.532 uh and then but i realized there's like we're we're trying of changed so many 00:09:31.532 --> 00:09:35.672 of our productivity apps that all of them have different key bindings and things. 00:09:35.872 --> 00:09:37.572 And so five days is not enough. 00:09:37.832 --> 00:09:41.412 Hit pause because that's the observation, just kind of watching you fight with 00:09:41.412 --> 00:09:47.152 some of it that has been a bit of a revelation for me because I think I took this bit for granted. 00:09:47.852 --> 00:09:53.832 Before the GUI, back in the old days, before the GUI, every application essentially 00:09:53.832 --> 00:09:55.332 implemented its same interface. 00:09:55.332 --> 00:09:58.652 And there was some standardization over the years, but for the most part, 00:09:58.752 --> 00:10:01.532 especially on unix every application had its own 00:10:01.532 --> 00:10:04.432 ui that you had to discover and that's why it was really common 00:10:04.432 --> 00:10:07.632 for people to just live in a certain application like emacs 00:10:07.632 --> 00:10:11.972 or this definitely happened with particular business applications you would 00:10:11.972 --> 00:10:14.612 learn all the hotkeys and everything and just be able to whip right through 00:10:14.612 --> 00:10:18.432 it once you learned it but every single command line application has its own 00:10:18.432 --> 00:10:23.292 interface and the discoverability is pretty low compared to a gui application 00:10:23.292 --> 00:10:25.652 where you can just look around, discover, and click and browse. 00:10:26.272 --> 00:10:32.972 I remember as a kid playing with the computer that my father and mother supplied us. 00:10:33.012 --> 00:10:36.252 It was like an old Commodore of some kind. So that's the first computer I remember. 00:10:36.692 --> 00:10:39.152 But I remember on that keyboard, they had these... 00:10:41.270 --> 00:10:43.510 little helper i don't know what you call it. 00:10:43.510 --> 00:10:46.530 Oh yeah a little like thing you could stick over the keyboard and then it would. 00:10:46.530 --> 00:10:48.210 Tell you all the key bindings for that very. 00:10:48.210 --> 00:10:50.250 Specific application lots of those is. 00:10:50.250 --> 00:10:53.470 This a new swag item you know to go along with the tui challenge i. 00:10:53.470 --> 00:10:55.210 Feel like i need this this week. 00:10:55.210 --> 00:10:58.990 There you go um we yeah just a bunch of different ones you could print out and 00:10:58.990 --> 00:11:00.110 put over your keyboard yeah. 00:11:00.110 --> 00:11:02.130 You know mpv i would use that one. 00:11:02.130 --> 00:11:06.490 So wes how is the tui challenge going for you oh. 00:11:06.490 --> 00:11:09.370 I'm definitely also feeling some frustration here i 00:11:09.370 --> 00:11:13.170 thought yeah i spend a lot of time in the terminal you know for like a computer 00:11:13.170 --> 00:11:18.310 average computer user in 2025 and i still think i do i almost always have one 00:11:18.310 --> 00:11:24.910 up but i also spend a lot of time in a web browser and it's as impressive as 00:11:24.910 --> 00:11:29.270 stuff like browsh and carbonyl are i i miss full resolution. 00:11:29.270 --> 00:11:31.370 Pixels yeah. 00:11:31.370 --> 00:11:35.370 I was trying to do some route planning and oh man you know something about the 00:11:35.370 --> 00:11:38.910 mapping applications they just they just don't work as good in the terminal 00:11:38.910 --> 00:11:40.730 at least not the ones we have today. 00:11:40.730 --> 00:11:43.450 Yeah and the chatbots chatbots have 00:11:43.450 --> 00:11:46.770 been tricky as we've tried to look a few things up okay so 00:11:46.770 --> 00:11:49.590 here's my frustration and because i have not 00:11:49.590 --> 00:11:52.510 been frustrated with the tui interfaces i find 00:11:52.510 --> 00:11:55.730 it to be nostalgic i remember each application having 00:11:55.730 --> 00:11:58.810 its own bespoke way i set it up in different ways they implemented ways 00:11:58.810 --> 00:12:03.830 to input those configurations and i've kind of been enjoying that i mean i knew 00:12:03.830 --> 00:12:06.650 that coming in that would be something i'd have to do and i've liked that part 00:12:06.650 --> 00:12:14.390 of it i could not have picked a harder worse time to switch to bluefin this 00:12:14.390 --> 00:12:16.830 is you know a cloud native oh. 00:12:16.830 --> 00:12:19.910 So this isn't a this isn't a two-week right fast this is something else. 00:12:19.910 --> 00:12:22.890 Well just slightly because of i mean it's i'm i 00:12:22.890 --> 00:12:26.150 picked probably not the ideal ideal tool for 00:12:26.150 --> 00:12:29.450 this job right um if you want flat pack applications 00:12:29.450 --> 00:12:32.990 you got the the world uh if 00:12:32.990 --> 00:12:35.850 you want something packaged by brew so for 00:12:35.850 --> 00:12:38.910 a lot of so the the ideal combo in bluefin is 00:12:38.910 --> 00:12:41.890 flat pack for your gooey applications brew for 00:12:41.890 --> 00:12:45.570 your command line applications and then if you if you can't find it with brew 00:12:45.570 --> 00:12:50.990 you bounce out to maybe a distro box which they have done a tremendous job with 00:12:50.990 --> 00:12:56.650 the you just command there's like a you just assemble and it assembles a distro 00:12:56.650 --> 00:13:01.650 box for you in just seconds there's a couple of different arches there um some of the standards um. 00:13:02.573 --> 00:13:05.753 And then if you want to create one from scratch and just give it an image name, 00:13:05.793 --> 00:13:09.573 you can do that as well. And it makes it really easy, super integrated. 00:13:09.933 --> 00:13:11.473 Right there is just a tab in my terminal. 00:13:11.953 --> 00:13:14.613 So to set up a distro box, they've nailed that. 00:13:15.233 --> 00:13:21.093 But it actually leads to a secondary effect problem. And that is I have some 00:13:21.093 --> 00:13:24.733 stuff installed via Ubuntu because it was available via apt or PPA. 00:13:24.933 --> 00:13:28.653 I have some stuff installed in my arch distro box because it's in the AUR. 00:13:28.793 --> 00:13:32.653 But not everything because not even everything in the AUR builds. It's gotten really bad. 00:13:32.873 --> 00:13:36.033 I would say three out of the five things I try to install from the AUR, 00:13:36.273 --> 00:13:38.813 TUI apps, fail to build or a dependency fails to build. 00:13:39.393 --> 00:13:44.873 So then, you know, so my first path is I'll try brew because I prefer to have it on my local system. 00:13:45.533 --> 00:13:51.513 And then I go to one of my distro boxes. I often have to also fall down to pip. 00:13:52.413 --> 00:13:57.813 And so pipx has become my friend this week. And a lot of times I'm installing, 00:13:58.033 --> 00:14:03.693 and I'm not exaggerating, 100, 200 dependency packages to say I want to get a music client. 00:14:04.433 --> 00:14:09.133 Oh, okay, that's 200 dependencies because it's a bunch of Python packages, 00:14:09.633 --> 00:14:13.513 a bunch of FFmpeg, and when it's all done and it's all installed, 00:14:13.513 --> 00:14:19.093 I run title DL, for example, and it says FFmpeg isn't in my path, so it doesn't work. 00:14:20.633 --> 00:14:25.233 And it's these little things that it's like, obviously if I was trying to install 00:14:25.233 --> 00:14:30.333 the best-in-class Linux desktop applications and I'm building web applications 00:14:30.333 --> 00:14:34.473 or I'm managing systems, Bluefin would be a killer solution. 00:14:34.713 --> 00:14:38.213 But when you're trying to install a bunch of random, half-supported, 00:14:38.373 --> 00:14:42.313 some underdevelopment, some abandoned TUI applications that some of them are 00:14:42.313 --> 00:14:44.313 Python, some of them are Rust, some of them are Go, 00:14:44.553 --> 00:14:51.553 et cetera, or Bash even, it's a real mixed bag and it could not have been a harder way to do things. 00:14:52.013 --> 00:14:57.973 And I'm sort of saved by the AUR, but so many of them fail to build. Thank you. 00:14:59.335 --> 00:15:03.535 So it's been, honestly, I've spent a lot of time. 00:15:03.695 --> 00:15:06.995 For example, I'm trying to get CMOS going, which is a music TUI client. 00:15:07.575 --> 00:15:08.895 I got that working just great. 00:15:09.515 --> 00:15:12.515 Now I want to populate my music folder with some music. 00:15:12.835 --> 00:15:16.755 Okay, well, I've been using Tidal for a while now, so I'll go get Tidal DL. 00:15:17.055 --> 00:15:21.155 And then I go into these rabbit holes of just trying to get a dependency application 00:15:21.155 --> 00:15:24.175 working so that way I can get the main application working, assuming I can even 00:15:24.175 --> 00:15:25.455 get the main application working. 00:15:25.655 --> 00:15:28.955 So not only am I jumping around between different environments a lot and having 00:15:28.955 --> 00:15:32.895 to implicitly remember, okay, this application, my email client, 00:15:32.895 --> 00:15:36.095 I could only get running in the Ubuntu environment, right. 00:15:36.515 --> 00:15:42.055 But my Todoist client, that is going to be an Arch because I installed it from the AUR. 00:15:42.595 --> 00:15:45.995 But Title DL, I ended up installing via PIP. 00:15:46.255 --> 00:15:50.815 And I have to actively think about that before I launch every terminal app. 00:15:50.995 --> 00:15:55.735 Maybe you need a TUI app spreadsheet so you can keep track of which things are where. 00:15:55.975 --> 00:15:59.615 Yeah, I need a matrix. Right, I need a matrix. If I installed it via software 00:15:59.615 --> 00:16:00.515 and things, they'd be fine. 00:16:01.195 --> 00:16:04.215 So that's been interesting. And then there's been certain things I've installed, 00:16:04.375 --> 00:16:08.815 like the ERC email client. 00:16:08.975 --> 00:16:10.535 Yes, I was going to ask about that. 00:16:10.755 --> 00:16:15.395 Yeah, this is the one, I think, because it does give you a 2E for configuring your email options. 00:16:15.855 --> 00:16:19.655 And much like the beloved Nano, it gives you the commands at the bottom of the 00:16:19.655 --> 00:16:22.455 screen, where something like Neopine, you have to know the commands. 00:16:22.455 --> 00:16:26.975 So that's been nice, except for on all of my Bluefin systems, 00:16:27.115 --> 00:16:30.655 regardless of the terminal application and regardless of the environment, i.e. 00:16:31.275 --> 00:16:35.875 local or within one of the DistroBox environments, the TUI UI never renders 00:16:35.875 --> 00:16:39.115 in my terminal. Doesn't matter the application, never renders. 00:16:39.275 --> 00:16:43.815 I installed it on one of my Nix desktops that I still have, and it renders just fine. 00:16:44.935 --> 00:16:50.535 So it's just a lot of weird little edge cases that I'm hitting that make me 00:16:50.535 --> 00:16:55.735 feel like we're not that far away from this being a bygone era and a way of using computers. 00:16:55.955 --> 00:16:59.595 And I know that seems silly because some of these are brand new applications, 00:16:59.595 --> 00:17:03.275 just like the ARC email clients under active development. 00:17:05.099 --> 00:17:09.179 But it's getting harder and harder to do this. It really is. 00:17:09.479 --> 00:17:12.219 Unless you're on something that has all this packaged for you. 00:17:13.019 --> 00:17:16.299 And it reminds me of what a nightmare package management can be. 00:17:16.439 --> 00:17:17.179 Because I'm trying to get one 00:17:17.179 --> 00:17:21.179 application installing and a dependency of a dependency fails to build. 00:17:21.579 --> 00:17:25.499 And so I can't get the application running. A lot of that. 00:17:25.819 --> 00:17:26.799 Have you gotten anything running? 00:17:27.399 --> 00:17:32.219 Yeah, I mean, things that I can run via Podman or Docker container, no problem. 00:17:33.319 --> 00:17:38.379 So like my web browser. And I have gotten title DL working, title DL NG, 00:17:38.939 --> 00:17:41.359 working to a degree, although it can't find FFmpeg. 00:17:41.939 --> 00:17:45.079 So, yeah, and I've got the to-do as client working, so I've got my task management going. 00:17:45.259 --> 00:17:46.959 Okay. So you're getting a couple points. 00:17:47.219 --> 00:17:51.039 Yeah, but it's not what I expected to spend my time fighting. 00:17:51.199 --> 00:17:53.179 You know what I mean? I just didn't expect that. 00:17:53.299 --> 00:17:57.119 Well, it sounds like you're spending most of your time learning the OS instead of learning the TUI. 00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:00.999 Yeah, and really learning the limits of what DistroBox can do, 00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:02.319 too, because I haven't spent... 00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:05.099 It's probably the most time in it, really, huh? Using it for real? 00:18:05.219 --> 00:18:07.139 Especially using it in anger. Yeah, using it for real. Like, 00:18:07.199 --> 00:18:10.919 I've always played around, oh, I'll just try this random thing as an experiment. 00:18:10.919 --> 00:18:15.039 But now I'm, like, actively using it in multiple different ways and really, 00:18:15.199 --> 00:18:16.579 like, okay, this is a different workflow. 00:18:17.179 --> 00:18:21.639 So I picked a bad time to switch. I'm not actually pinning any of this on Bluefin 00:18:21.639 --> 00:18:26.159 to make it clear because I think it's, you know, if you wanted to do all a bunch 00:18:26.159 --> 00:18:30.279 of Tuis and stuff like that in Ubuntu or Debian box, maybe it's a better route to go. 00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:33.319 you know this is really a modern desktop experience 00:18:33.319 --> 00:18:36.459 is what bluefin is and i and i decided to go get the most modern desktop experience 00:18:36.459 --> 00:18:39.099 you could currently find packaged for somebody right now and then 00:18:39.099 --> 00:18:41.919 go throw a bunch of you know time machines on at it so i 00:18:41.919 --> 00:18:44.679 understand i'm not i'm not pinning the blame on bluefin i want to make that 00:18:44.679 --> 00:18:48.119 clear i'm putting the blame on me for picking 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:50.919 the wrong tool for this particular job like i should have just waited 00:18:50.919 --> 00:18:53.779 until the two-week challenge was over but i was so excited i 00:18:53.779 --> 00:18:56.959 have otherwise been enjoying it i want to make that clear as well but 00:18:56.959 --> 00:18:59.759 oh my god right now mid challenges i can see 00:18:59.759 --> 00:19:02.479 that i'm not stacking the wins and the points that i thought i 00:19:02.479 --> 00:19:05.639 would be oh boy i can't 00:19:05.639 --> 00:19:10.159 believe it i mean if i told chris from the late 90s and early aughts that he 00:19:10.159 --> 00:19:13.719 was having these struggles he would call me an old man and laugh at me and he 00:19:13.719 --> 00:19:18.219 would show me how he was browsing the gentoo wiki using links and finding things 00:19:18.219 --> 00:19:22.359 no problem when he couldn't get x11 working and to shut up and figure it out 00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:23.379 that's what he would Maybe. 00:19:23.379 --> 00:19:26.139 You should have been using Gentoo. I don't know. If you're going to be building 00:19:26.139 --> 00:19:28.559 stuff anyway, you might as well use a tool that's made for it. 00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:31.879 You know what? You know what? I think it might have worked better. 00:19:31.899 --> 00:19:37.319 My other thought is, can you run Bedrock Linux, that Linux that combines a bunch of distros into one? 00:19:37.339 --> 00:19:40.659 You just put that in a distro box, and then you only need one distro box. 00:19:40.899 --> 00:19:43.199 Oh, right, right. Smart. 00:19:46.407 --> 00:19:53.267 1password.com slash unplugged. 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That is the number 1password.com 00:21:44.107 --> 00:21:45.967 slash unplugged, all lowercase. 00:21:46.207 --> 00:21:48.327 Great way to support the show and learn more. 00:21:48.747 --> 00:21:51.107 1password.com slash unplugged. 00:21:53.883 --> 00:21:58.003 Well, we're back in real time. It's the end of the week, the end of the seven-day 00:21:58.003 --> 00:22:01.243 Tui challenge. Boys, how are you feeling now? 00:22:01.523 --> 00:22:05.843 I'm feeling a little better. I think, yeah, I don't want to give it too much 00:22:05.843 --> 00:22:08.783 away. I don't think I'm going to be the champion this week, but I am feeling better. 00:22:09.183 --> 00:22:16.183 Yeah. You know, I still miss a web browser, but I am feeling better than when we checked in. 00:22:16.443 --> 00:22:18.423 Okay, out of the three of us, who do you think is going to score the highest? 00:22:19.323 --> 00:22:21.863 I think it really depends how honest we are. Yeah. 00:22:22.143 --> 00:22:22.423 Whoa. 00:22:22.763 --> 00:22:24.263 I mean, you sprinted hard towards the end. 00:22:24.303 --> 00:22:25.103 That's what I was going to say. 00:22:25.123 --> 00:22:27.103 I'm kind of inclined to give it to Brett over there. 00:22:27.263 --> 00:22:27.503 Uh-huh. 00:22:28.443 --> 00:22:30.243 I think you're making a mistake here. 00:22:30.543 --> 00:22:32.643 You were working right up to the start of the show. 00:22:32.763 --> 00:22:35.623 Yeah. Yeah, you were cramming your homework. So, I don't know. 00:22:35.663 --> 00:22:37.963 I feel like you were trying to cram in on the bonies to get ahead. 00:22:38.283 --> 00:22:39.843 I may have cheated lots this week. 00:22:41.563 --> 00:22:43.623 Okay. So, you mean there may be some penalties? 00:22:43.683 --> 00:22:47.603 I may have pushed hard because I needed the bonus points. 00:22:47.823 --> 00:22:52.903 I got you. Yeah. So, you know, just to remind everybody, the TUI challenge had 00:22:52.903 --> 00:22:54.483 a few categories along with points. 00:22:54.883 --> 00:22:59.203 You needed to conquer text editing, email management, web browsing, 00:22:59.563 --> 00:23:03.923 music playback, file management, task management, system monitoring, 00:23:04.163 --> 00:23:06.503 and for bonus points, terminal multitasking. 00:23:07.223 --> 00:23:09.483 And then some categories also had additional bonus points available. 00:23:09.903 --> 00:23:12.823 So how did you do with text editor? 00:23:12.823 --> 00:23:18.523 Well, as you're in that clip, I kind of wanted to find something that just worked out of the box. 00:23:19.163 --> 00:23:23.203 And it turns out from that day forward, I did. I found an application called 00:23:23.203 --> 00:23:24.863 Helix that I really liked. 00:23:25.983 --> 00:23:29.683 I wanted throughout this challenge to learn some Vim keybindings. 00:23:30.779 --> 00:23:35.759 Not all of them. That's ridiculous. That takes years. But I did learn a couple, 00:23:35.839 --> 00:23:37.539 and Helix uses them by default. 00:23:37.739 --> 00:23:42.339 But Chris, as you and I love using Nano, it gives you like a little cheater 00:23:42.339 --> 00:23:45.959 bar at the bottom when you open the command palette to try to type in a command. 00:23:46.139 --> 00:23:50.359 You can like tab complete those, but also just like makes them discoverable for you. 00:23:50.439 --> 00:23:52.539 And they're kind of like regular language commands too. 00:23:52.679 --> 00:23:52.919 Yeah. 00:23:53.119 --> 00:23:53.739 That helps. 00:23:53.919 --> 00:23:57.419 And it gives you the shortcuts as well. So it's a good discoverability for the 00:23:57.419 --> 00:24:01.999 shortcuts. So I found it a really nice balance between learning a new thing, 00:24:02.299 --> 00:24:06.959 having that like handicap, I guess, of that little panel that helps me out. 00:24:08.019 --> 00:24:11.419 And also being able to change the themes fairly quickly. 00:24:12.359 --> 00:24:17.099 Because I did one thing I really discovered I wanted was markdown highlighting 00:24:17.099 --> 00:24:20.179 that wasn't super complex to get out of the box. 00:24:20.919 --> 00:24:25.199 So I think in that regard, I found a happy place and maybe an editor that'll 00:24:25.199 --> 00:24:28.319 stick with me. I did try a couple others. Like I mentioned, I tried NeoVim. 00:24:28.959 --> 00:24:30.519 The right decision was to give up on that. 00:24:31.419 --> 00:24:37.119 I also tried something called Z, which is written in Rust. It's supposed to be a modern text editor. 00:24:37.519 --> 00:24:41.419 I didn't realize it uses Emacs key bindings, and I got stuck in it for quite a while. 00:24:42.199 --> 00:24:44.779 So I eventually got out of there and never touched it again. 00:24:44.939 --> 00:24:46.579 Hey, that's supposed to be a Vim thing, okay? 00:24:46.739 --> 00:24:50.999 I'm going to try out Helix after the show. I didn't really go outside my comfort 00:24:50.999 --> 00:24:53.999 zone when it came to text editors. I just felt like that was a category I had solved. 00:24:54.819 --> 00:24:57.759 But then watching you use Helix, and I tried it quickly. I'm like, 00:24:57.899 --> 00:25:01.559 oh, I might, even though I didn't really use it for the majority of the challenge. 00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:02.379 You're switching after. 00:25:02.399 --> 00:25:03.539 I might, yeah. I think so. 00:25:03.659 --> 00:25:08.479 I was quite happy to find it. And I don't think all, well, maybe not most of 00:25:08.479 --> 00:25:10.859 these tools will stick with me, but I think Helix might be the one. 00:25:10.999 --> 00:25:15.019 What about the email tool? Because you and I used, you and I went the same route. 00:25:15.139 --> 00:25:16.119 We used the same email tool. 00:25:16.259 --> 00:25:16.899 I think we all did. 00:25:17.059 --> 00:25:22.839 Oh, yeah, right. Yeah, we all three did. Right. So ARC or AERC, A-E-R-C. 00:25:23.099 --> 00:25:23.139 ARC. 00:25:23.139 --> 00:25:28.879 We talked about it earlier. We all three went with it, and I had initially just 00:25:28.879 --> 00:25:32.859 the weirdest problem where it would not render on my terminal. Rebooted the system, 00:25:33.881 --> 00:25:36.961 resized the terminal and ran it again and it 00:25:36.961 --> 00:25:39.861 worked so after the after we recorded i 00:25:39.861 --> 00:25:42.781 was able to continue to i was able to use it without having to do anything fancy 00:25:42.781 --> 00:25:46.301 so i don't know why it wouldn't work initially but it 00:25:46.301 --> 00:25:50.641 did eventually but where i went wrong is 00:25:50.641 --> 00:25:54.661 i i asked an llm how to set up because i had just gotten that working in the 00:25:54.661 --> 00:25:59.941 web in the browser in the terminal like well let's try this first of all arduous 00:25:59.941 --> 00:26:03.501 second of all didn't work couldn't render properly so i couldn't really read 00:26:03.501 --> 00:26:07.421 the instructions very well oh no and it sent me down this route best i could tell of, 00:26:08.001 --> 00:26:12.721 setting up like an app profile under google workspaces and then generating like 00:26:12.721 --> 00:26:17.821 a project and then enabling oauth 2 and then generating oauth keys and client 00:26:17.821 --> 00:26:22.241 ids and client secrets and all the stuff and brent was like you don't and i 00:26:22.241 --> 00:26:23.821 was told because i'm like 15 minutes into this yeah. 00:26:23.821 --> 00:26:25.801 I was outside tinkering on something and came back. 00:26:25.801 --> 00:26:29.721 In like 20 minutes later between trying to read it off of the terminal web browser 00:26:29.721 --> 00:26:33.441 and then going through the google works i was so frustrated i had to take a 00:26:33.441 --> 00:26:36.821 little walk and brent was outside cooking i'm like brent i wish you were inside 00:26:36.821 --> 00:26:39.881 right now so you could commiserate with me you're not gonna believe what i'm going through, 00:26:40.361 --> 00:26:44.281 he's like you don't need to do that i'm like what now you don't need to do that, 00:26:46.441 --> 00:26:49.861 but once it got running we have a little admission to make. 00:26:49.861 --> 00:26:51.181 Uh-huh it's embarrassing. 00:26:51.181 --> 00:26:52.381 It is embarrassing i don't know where. 00:26:52.381 --> 00:26:56.541 You want to start with this one but you and i both ran into it identically. 00:26:56.541 --> 00:26:57.341 Yeah and. 00:26:57.341 --> 00:26:58.281 We don't think west did. 00:26:58.281 --> 00:27:01.701 And i think you need to be aware of this listeners if you use Nano. 00:27:02.581 --> 00:27:08.721 Okay, so Arc is quite lovely in that it presents you with shortcuts and it tries 00:27:08.721 --> 00:27:10.541 to guide you through it. And I woke up pretty far. 00:27:10.541 --> 00:27:12.981 It has like global commands and a lot of them are sort of Vim inspired. 00:27:13.301 --> 00:27:19.021 Yeah, so I was feeling good. I thought email was going to be like the biggest challenge here. 00:27:19.221 --> 00:27:22.921 And one of the sweet things about Arc is it uses your favorite default text 00:27:22.921 --> 00:27:26.421 editor. So the compose environment is the text editor you're used to, whatever it might be. 00:27:26.581 --> 00:27:30.141 Which is awesome. So Chris and I both started composing messages to Wes. 00:27:30.421 --> 00:27:35.361 in nano of course because that was our default and couldn't figure out how to 00:27:35.361 --> 00:27:40.001 actually couldn't send it get out of the text editor to move on to the next step you. 00:27:40.001 --> 00:27:43.221 Have to exit the text editor and then arc takes back over and then you're on 00:27:43.221 --> 00:27:45.061 a review screen and you can send the email it's. 00:27:45.061 --> 00:27:47.921 Kind of like with git right like when you're presented with an editor to edit your. 00:27:47.921 --> 00:27:48.541 Commit message. 00:27:48.541 --> 00:27:50.041 And then you quit save and quit the file. 00:27:50.041 --> 00:27:56.461 Exactly yeah which is a fine way to do it yeah the issue comes in that uh well 00:27:56.461 --> 00:28:00.301 as you know chris uh wes you might not know this but to exit nano you know you 00:28:00.301 --> 00:28:02.541 hit ctrl x yeah sure do just get out of that says. 00:28:02.541 --> 00:28:03.841 It right there on the screen it's real handy. 00:28:03.841 --> 00:28:08.701 Yeah it's awesome part of the problem though is that arc hijacks that keystroke 00:28:08.701 --> 00:28:13.441 ctrl x to bring up the command palette yeah so chris and i both ran into the 00:28:13.441 --> 00:28:16.901 situation where we composed our beautiful email and wanted to move on to the 00:28:16.901 --> 00:28:21.461 next step by just closing the editor and you can't actually ever do that you. 00:28:21.461 --> 00:28:26.901 Can't close nano because it's like you said it's it's overriding that control X to be the global. 00:28:26.901 --> 00:28:29.701 Command. I tried so many things. 00:28:29.901 --> 00:28:30.461 So you get stuck. 00:28:31.689 --> 00:28:35.909 You get stuck. And you can never send the email, as far as we could tell, 00:28:35.969 --> 00:28:38.229 if you're using Nano as your default text editor. 00:28:38.629 --> 00:28:44.109 So this is where, for me, using Bluefin took a turn to the positive. 00:28:44.129 --> 00:28:49.109 And where I crossed from feeling like Bluefin was holding me back to where the 00:28:49.109 --> 00:28:53.049 Bluefin design was actually getting things done for me. 00:28:53.049 --> 00:28:59.409 And it was when I realized I could open up my Arch distro box and I could change 00:28:59.409 --> 00:29:06.149 my default text editor in my Arch distro box to Vim and I could just compose 00:29:06.149 --> 00:29:11.249 emails in there and not have to actually stop using Nano on the host system. 00:29:11.469 --> 00:29:14.089 But the other thing that's great about the way the distro box configuration 00:29:14.089 --> 00:29:19.369 works is when I fired up Arc, it had all the configuration when I had set it 00:29:19.369 --> 00:29:22.569 up on the host system because it's reading my home directory and all my dot files. 00:29:23.049 --> 00:29:26.509 So I didn't have to reset up Arc. Everything I had done on my Bluefin host system 00:29:26.509 --> 00:29:28.589 was immediately working inside the Arch distro box. 00:29:28.709 --> 00:29:31.549 But now inside Arch, I'm using Vim. 00:29:31.789 --> 00:29:35.429 And then what do you know? I'm doing my emails, baby. And I'm sending emails. 00:29:35.549 --> 00:29:37.549 I'm receiving emails. I'm replying to emails. 00:29:37.729 --> 00:29:39.309 It's a pretty nice client. 00:29:39.469 --> 00:29:39.829 It's powerful. 00:29:39.869 --> 00:29:40.549 I do like it. 00:29:40.629 --> 00:29:40.769 Yeah. 00:29:41.229 --> 00:29:44.449 I think the setup on the Google side was annoying. 00:29:44.649 --> 00:29:45.349 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:29:45.569 --> 00:29:48.709 But the actual experience after that is totally fine. 00:29:48.769 --> 00:29:50.009 Nothing Arc can do about that, though. 00:29:50.169 --> 00:29:50.329 Right. 00:29:50.509 --> 00:29:52.389 So once we switched editors, how did it work for you? 00:29:52.389 --> 00:29:55.209 Well, I did the right thing and switched to my new text editor. 00:29:56.149 --> 00:29:58.329 Oh, so you're using Helix to write your emails? 00:29:58.509 --> 00:29:58.669 Yeah. 00:29:58.829 --> 00:29:58.989 Cool. 00:29:58.989 --> 00:30:00.649 My new default. I even committed. 00:30:01.129 --> 00:30:01.469 Nice. 00:30:01.649 --> 00:30:06.049 And worked perfectly fine after that. So got a nice little email off to Wes, 00:30:06.089 --> 00:30:09.729 and he confirmed that, yes, Chris, you and I both got points for this category. 00:30:10.389 --> 00:30:14.109 All right. We should probably keep moving. Webb, what did you end up actually using here? 00:30:14.309 --> 00:30:17.349 This is probably where I'm going to have to start getting honest. 00:30:17.689 --> 00:30:18.109 Uh-oh. 00:30:22.449 --> 00:30:26.589 Okay, you both had some success with Carbano. We kind of teased that last episode. 00:30:26.829 --> 00:30:26.909 We're great. 00:30:27.149 --> 00:30:28.509 I could not get this thing going. 00:30:28.789 --> 00:30:28.989 Really? 00:30:29.089 --> 00:30:30.009 I could not get it running. 00:30:30.549 --> 00:30:33.609 Now, I believe, since I was running it via Podman. 00:30:33.809 --> 00:30:35.089 I was also just doing Podman. 00:30:35.089 --> 00:30:37.729 You opted to try to not do the Podman route. 00:30:37.729 --> 00:30:38.529 I tried to nex it. 00:30:38.709 --> 00:30:38.869 Yeah. 00:30:38.969 --> 00:30:42.389 And failed quite miserably after quite a long time. 00:30:42.549 --> 00:30:46.529 Which was very cathartic for me to see. After the struggles I went through, I have to say. 00:30:46.609 --> 00:30:49.869 Yes. Yeah. I felt your pain. Yes, you did. 00:30:49.869 --> 00:30:51.589 For one app, you felt my pain. 00:30:51.689 --> 00:30:56.989 But I did pivot, and I used Browse, which was available by default in NixOS. 00:30:57.209 --> 00:31:02.469 And so I got a quick win there, and I loaded our website, and the images took 00:31:02.469 --> 00:31:05.689 about a minute to load. But I did get the website loaded. 00:31:06.169 --> 00:31:09.929 That said, I did not use that browser all week. 00:31:10.889 --> 00:31:15.829 I could not. So I feel like probably I should be deducted points, 00:31:15.969 --> 00:31:20.649 but given some for at least getting a browser working. So I don't know what 00:31:20.649 --> 00:31:22.649 you boys want to give me in this particular. 00:31:22.729 --> 00:31:27.709 So web browsing was worth 20 points, but you have to deduct 20 points if you use Firefox or Chrome. 00:31:29.047 --> 00:31:30.487 That sounds like a big zero for me. 00:31:30.667 --> 00:31:33.887 Well, I could half that. I'd be willing to half that if we want to do funny math. 00:31:34.087 --> 00:31:34.227 Okay. 00:31:34.387 --> 00:31:37.887 Well, this is where you should get honest, because I don't think that you guys 00:31:37.887 --> 00:31:40.347 exclusively used the terminal browser. 00:31:40.527 --> 00:31:45.047 There's just certain apps to publish our shows and stuff I have to use. 00:31:45.727 --> 00:31:47.747 I tried to do stuff in Carbano first. 00:31:47.807 --> 00:31:52.367 And then I would fall back. Oh, I suffered. I mean, the portion of suffering, 00:31:52.467 --> 00:31:55.127 getting things done on the Carbano was high. 00:31:55.287 --> 00:31:57.747 So, I mean, I definitely feel like I paid my pittance. 00:31:57.747 --> 00:31:59.287 So maybe like, is that a 10 point then? 00:31:59.407 --> 00:32:02.907 I feel like it's a 10 point for the web browser. Because, you know, 00:32:02.987 --> 00:32:04.367 we didn't hire a judge for this episode. 00:32:04.627 --> 00:32:07.987 So, all right. You and I both use CMOS for music. 00:32:08.407 --> 00:32:10.487 I'll talk more about that later in my segment, I think. 00:32:10.927 --> 00:32:14.187 But you use something that I didn't even bother with for your file management. 00:32:14.187 --> 00:32:16.807 I'm really curious about your choice of file manager. 00:32:17.067 --> 00:32:21.647 Yeah, I mentioned two of them, Ranger and also Joshudo, which is just a Ranger-like 00:32:21.647 --> 00:32:23.327 file manager written in Rust. 00:32:24.287 --> 00:32:28.907 And I kind of used both 50-50. They're very similar to each other. 00:32:29.047 --> 00:32:30.667 I wanted to see what the differences were. 00:32:31.247 --> 00:32:35.007 They worked amazingly well. Very simple to use. They have shortcuts and all 00:32:35.007 --> 00:32:36.147 that stuff, too, that you can learn. 00:32:36.427 --> 00:32:41.427 I tried to stick to using this for file browsing because I did make that comment 00:32:41.427 --> 00:32:46.287 in the clip saying, hey, maybe you should lean on a TUI and not just console tools. 00:32:47.427 --> 00:32:52.007 So I tried to use it as much as possible. I used it all week and kind of liked it. 00:32:52.927 --> 00:33:00.787 Even did some shell commands from within Ranger or Joshuda. And I think this went really well for me. 00:33:00.887 --> 00:33:03.427 Ranger here, and I think you're going to get some bonus points here for this. 00:33:03.627 --> 00:33:08.047 Ranger has some neat support for multi-file functions. 00:33:08.687 --> 00:33:11.967 And if you look at the file management section... 00:33:12.493 --> 00:33:17.853 If you perform batch operations, you get plus five bonus points. 00:33:18.173 --> 00:33:19.013 I sure do. 00:33:19.313 --> 00:33:21.753 Yeah, you do. And I saw you perform the batch operation. 00:33:21.853 --> 00:33:22.313 Did you? 00:33:22.513 --> 00:33:22.633 I did. 00:33:22.733 --> 00:33:24.693 I witnessed it. What? That batch bastard. 00:33:26.113 --> 00:33:29.813 And you do the batch operations similar to the Git editing. 00:33:30.313 --> 00:33:36.113 So you change them in a text editor. So I had my text editor of choice Helix 00:33:36.113 --> 00:33:41.093 going in this. So everything kind of near the end of the week started gelling 00:33:41.093 --> 00:33:43.813 a little bit more than the frustrations I was feeling midweek. 00:33:44.013 --> 00:33:46.073 So I'll take the extra five points. 00:33:46.173 --> 00:33:51.373 Yeah, I think you earned it. So keep track of that. I think the Ranger looks really interesting. 00:33:51.653 --> 00:33:56.973 And it reminds me to say that since the last time where I actually used these 00:33:56.973 --> 00:34:01.333 tools in the real world, more so than ever, Vim has sort of become almost a 00:34:01.333 --> 00:34:04.493 universal interface for these TUI applications. 00:34:04.493 --> 00:34:08.333 Not 100%, but 80% of these apps use Vim keybindings. 00:34:08.453 --> 00:34:12.853 And so it really gives you a multiplier if you just learn Vim keybindings, 00:34:12.973 --> 00:34:17.473 even the basics, because so many apps outside of Vim are using them now. 00:34:17.733 --> 00:34:21.213 You know, that was my intuition coming into the challenge, and I think it turned 00:34:21.213 --> 00:34:24.993 out to be quite true. There were Vim keybindings in places I never even expected them. 00:34:25.033 --> 00:34:29.133 Oh, yeah. All right, so how did you do on the task management? 00:34:29.233 --> 00:34:34.073 I never got there. Yeah, I did exactly nothing. 00:34:34.493 --> 00:34:36.293 Uh-oh, uh-oh. I'm surprised by that. 00:34:36.293 --> 00:34:40.473 I went as far as opening a bunch of tabs of interesting-looking task managers 00:34:40.473 --> 00:34:46.933 that I could run, but of the terminal applications I thought I would learn the 00:34:46.933 --> 00:34:49.793 most, I decided this was last on the list. 00:34:49.833 --> 00:34:52.893 That's a big fat negative 20 there on the points there, big guy. 00:34:52.993 --> 00:34:55.933 That sets me back quite far. I should have did at least something. 00:34:56.133 --> 00:34:58.493 Jeez, now I regret that. Can I just go away for five minutes? 00:34:58.573 --> 00:35:02.173 But you get the Btop points, so you get points for system monitoring. 00:35:02.173 --> 00:35:05.133 I'm going to give that to you, which is 10 points. 00:35:05.313 --> 00:35:06.073 Thank you. Thank you. 00:35:06.233 --> 00:35:10.853 And then did you do any multitasking on the command line? 00:35:12.553 --> 00:35:18.733 I realized, you know, we put this as the last day's challenge and I did this 00:35:18.733 --> 00:35:22.093 as the last sort of challenge that I set some time to. 00:35:22.893 --> 00:35:25.073 I feel almost like this should have been first. 00:35:25.773 --> 00:35:26.973 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 00:35:27.093 --> 00:35:27.193 Yeah. 00:35:27.513 --> 00:35:29.713 I see. That was one of the things I realized about midway into. 00:35:29.993 --> 00:35:33.093 And then I started using the hell out of like Zelgi tabs and stuff. Yeah. 00:35:33.093 --> 00:35:37.053 Yeah, because I opened Zellage, which everybody was raving about. 00:35:37.273 --> 00:35:39.673 So I was like, I've got to try this thing. But this was like... 00:35:40.563 --> 00:35:44.943 the hour before the show this morning and realized very quick. 00:35:45.023 --> 00:35:47.783 I played around and I was like, Oh, this is sweet. 00:35:47.963 --> 00:35:48.243 Yeah. 00:35:48.523 --> 00:35:51.803 And realized very quickly that I had missed out on using this all week. 00:35:52.383 --> 00:35:56.723 Yeah. And I just have like, I just have my email up in one of the tabs. Just, Oh yeah. 00:35:56.723 --> 00:36:01.823 Why not? So I did get it running. I did kind of fall in love with it very quickly, 00:36:01.823 --> 00:36:04.103 but I did not use it in anger. 00:36:04.303 --> 00:36:07.363 So I don't know. You guys are going to have to judge what that's worth. 00:36:07.483 --> 00:36:11.363 No, you tried it. You got some multitasking going. So you get 30 points. 00:36:11.723 --> 00:36:13.083 Oof, I'll take it. You get 30 points from that. 00:36:13.883 --> 00:36:17.863 And then I see in the bonus category, you tried an LLM app. You tried some password 00:36:17.863 --> 00:36:19.783 apps. Can you give me a quick rundown on how that went? 00:36:19.963 --> 00:36:22.763 Yeah, I found quite a bit of success. Yesterday I was griping about it, 00:36:22.843 --> 00:36:27.743 but I found some success with a little app called Teneri, which is basically 00:36:27.743 --> 00:36:32.283 LLM in your terminal 2E, written in Rust, of course. 00:36:33.603 --> 00:36:39.783 And this is pretty cool. You can, by default, it's connected to, like, your chat GPT API. 00:36:40.323 --> 00:36:45.303 Turns out I don't have one of those. So that instantly put me in hard mode. 00:36:45.583 --> 00:36:51.423 But it also supports, like, Llama CPP as a backend or Ollama as well. 00:36:51.923 --> 00:36:58.363 So I connected it to my Ollama instance and used that for a bit and actually kind of love it. 00:36:58.523 --> 00:37:01.363 It has a bunch of history and it uses Vim keybindings. 00:37:01.363 --> 00:37:02.143 Hey, go figure. 00:37:02.143 --> 00:37:05.723 So it's modal and all that good, great stuff that I'm learning to love. 00:37:06.063 --> 00:37:09.443 So Tenere, I think, awesome tool. I would totally recommend. 00:37:09.963 --> 00:37:14.583 We'll have a link to that in the show notes. And password manager? 00:37:14.803 --> 00:37:21.063 This is another one that I wanted to get working, so I use KeePass XC generally. 00:37:21.403 --> 00:37:26.103 That's a GUI, of course. So I was looking for KeePass 2Es. There's, 00:37:26.123 --> 00:37:27.763 of course, a terminal... 00:37:29.015 --> 00:37:32.215 like just a console program you can use, which was real painful. 00:37:32.215 --> 00:37:34.695 So I quickly exited that. 00:37:34.895 --> 00:37:40.435 I didn't want it. But I did find a TUI for KeePass called KPXHS. 00:37:41.695 --> 00:37:47.215 It's basically interactive KeePass, and it's just a front end for the KeePass CLI. 00:37:48.035 --> 00:37:53.095 But this is where I fell down again. If something wasn't packaged in NexoS, 00:37:53.175 --> 00:37:56.635 I tried and tried to kind of make a flake to just pull something down from GitHub. 00:37:56.955 --> 00:37:59.435 But Wes, you got to teach me this. Cause like I'm doing something wrong. 00:37:59.435 --> 00:38:03.195 It's not working. And I really want to be able to do this little thing. 00:38:03.535 --> 00:38:05.755 You've identified an area to learn more about. 00:38:05.935 --> 00:38:06.095 Yeah. 00:38:06.275 --> 00:38:07.395 So homework after the show. 00:38:08.155 --> 00:38:13.155 I feel a little proud of myself for trying cause it's a skill I've wanted to 00:38:13.155 --> 00:38:16.455 acquire, but I did not quite acquire it, but I got into it a little bit. 00:38:16.595 --> 00:38:20.255 So never got to the point of doing passwords in the terminal, but I tried. 00:38:20.435 --> 00:38:23.755 So keep track of your score. We're going to total up all our scores at the end. Okay. 00:38:24.495 --> 00:38:28.955 So don't reveal it now. Wes, how did your week in the terminal go? 00:38:30.055 --> 00:38:34.815 Anything stand out for you in the categories when we get to text editing or 00:38:34.815 --> 00:38:38.235 email management? Anything there that surprised you? I imagine you probably used Vim. 00:38:38.655 --> 00:38:40.515 I did. Yeah, NeoVim to be precise. 00:38:40.835 --> 00:38:42.255 And you went with ARC for email. 00:38:42.415 --> 00:38:45.035 I didn't get super creative on that front. That is true. 00:38:45.195 --> 00:38:47.495 Well, I like that we all tried ARC. That's new for all of us. 00:38:47.955 --> 00:38:52.375 You got it working first, I have to say, because you figured out the app password route and I... 00:38:53.087 --> 00:38:53.727 So dumb. 00:38:54.007 --> 00:38:57.247 I've done that before. I also asked an LLM, so I just got better LLM advice, I guess. 00:38:57.387 --> 00:38:57.627 Oh, okay. 00:38:58.247 --> 00:39:03.087 Well, and then I realized I tried using the JB email, which didn't seem to work, 00:39:03.227 --> 00:39:05.467 at least with my level of permissions or whatever. 00:39:05.567 --> 00:39:08.687 So then I pivoted to mine, and then I was able to... It was kind of hard because 00:39:08.687 --> 00:39:12.587 I ended up getting a link to the right place instead of finding it in the UI, 00:39:12.667 --> 00:39:14.527 and then I was able to sort of initiate what I needed. 00:39:14.667 --> 00:39:17.767 That was the thing for me is I actually had to search for it and then click 00:39:17.767 --> 00:39:20.027 to it. You could not find it in the Google settings. 00:39:20.607 --> 00:39:23.407 So once that hurdle was done, that worked pretty well. 00:39:23.607 --> 00:39:25.027 What did you do for music playback? 00:39:25.427 --> 00:39:32.227 Yeah, so I did do CMOS a little bit. I also did actually manage to try out Castero for podcasts. 00:39:32.507 --> 00:39:33.007 Oh, yeah, yeah. 00:39:33.087 --> 00:39:35.867 That one hadn't been updated in a little bit, but it does, you know, 00:39:35.927 --> 00:39:38.647 I was able to listen to our stuff. I listened to some other ones. 00:39:38.767 --> 00:39:41.287 I mean, you basically just have to add feeds yourself, but that's fine. 00:39:41.767 --> 00:39:44.167 So, you know, paste in the feed URL and then... 00:39:44.167 --> 00:39:48.047 I know that's not quite considered streaming, because our bonus points said 00:39:48.047 --> 00:39:50.927 extra bonus points for streaming, But I feel like if you get podcasts going 00:39:50.927 --> 00:39:52.967 in the terminal, it could be worth extra bonus points. 00:39:53.127 --> 00:39:53.387 I think so. 00:39:53.847 --> 00:39:54.567 Can we give it to them? 00:39:54.667 --> 00:39:54.827 Yeah. 00:39:55.247 --> 00:39:56.527 All right. Five points for you, Wes. 00:39:56.687 --> 00:39:59.847 I did try, what was it called? 00:40:02.507 --> 00:40:04.547 YTUE-music? YTUE-music? 00:40:04.667 --> 00:40:05.847 Yeah, how did that work? I wanted to try it, but I did not get it. 00:40:05.847 --> 00:40:06.807 I could not get it running. 00:40:06.807 --> 00:40:07.227 Oh, okay. 00:40:07.347 --> 00:40:10.487 I didn't try a ton, but in what time I did experiment with it, sadly. 00:40:11.027 --> 00:40:12.867 Did you opt to use a TUI file manager at all? 00:40:13.527 --> 00:40:18.387 Not, I mean, I didn't use it all of the time, but yes, I did try out Yazzie. 00:40:18.387 --> 00:40:20.967 Which i actually have running here yeah yeah um. 00:40:20.967 --> 00:40:23.987 Because i wanted to try the fancy image support. 00:40:23.987 --> 00:40:24.587 Right in. 00:40:24.587 --> 00:40:25.867 Kitty so check this out. 00:40:25.867 --> 00:40:29.007 Okay whoa it's perfect yeah. 00:40:29.007 --> 00:40:29.707 Isn't that nice. 00:40:29.707 --> 00:40:33.847 So what i'm seeing is a three column uh file manager and in the third column 00:40:33.847 --> 00:40:36.127 is a perfect rendering of a pdf, 00:40:37.230 --> 00:40:39.410 It looks, so it's a manual for a microphone. 00:40:39.770 --> 00:40:40.790 Oh, wow. 00:40:40.910 --> 00:40:42.810 It's great. And that's a 1080p display, right? 00:40:42.950 --> 00:40:43.110 Uh-huh. 00:40:43.230 --> 00:40:47.390 And it renders, it all fits on there really nice. That's nice. 00:40:48.030 --> 00:40:52.030 Okay, so I kind of have to admit, I stuck with Midnight Commander here because, 00:40:52.970 --> 00:40:54.310 again, I was going for easy points. 00:40:54.490 --> 00:40:58.190 I use this all the time. I love Midnight Commander. 00:40:58.330 --> 00:41:02.110 It reminds me of Norton Commander from when I was a young lad and my dad's computer 00:41:02.110 --> 00:41:03.810 ran Norton Commander before Windows. 00:41:04.650 --> 00:41:10.350 and um i still have a very soft spot for it and so i just know how to whip through that thing. 00:41:10.350 --> 00:41:10.850 That makes sense. 00:41:10.850 --> 00:41:16.450 And it's got multi-pane support and so i i used midnight commander but yazzy's looking real good. 00:41:16.450 --> 00:41:21.550 I did also use dua because i like it for specifically deleting files and because 00:41:21.550 --> 00:41:25.150 you can um you know go in and mark a bunch of stuff to delete and then have it delete all of it. 00:41:25.150 --> 00:41:27.210 Did you do anything for task management. 00:41:27.210 --> 00:41:29.950 Uh yeah i didn't again this was i didn't do a ton i 00:41:29.950 --> 00:41:32.730 kind of pivoted to this part of it a little late um but i was 00:41:32.730 --> 00:41:35.670 trying out let's see here i tried 00:41:35.670 --> 00:41:38.670 to open all these up a vault tasks it's 00:41:38.670 --> 00:41:42.050 a tui markdown task manager all right 00:41:42.050 --> 00:41:45.110 oh i like this markdown yeah so you kind of have a vault um 00:41:45.110 --> 00:41:51.110 you put a bunch of markdown files in there and then it's got like a its own 00:41:51.110 --> 00:41:54.370 little bespoke tui interface front end to that yeah so it has its own thing 00:41:54.370 --> 00:41:57.690 where it's kind of parsing it it's all very new sounds like maybe refactor is 00:41:57.690 --> 00:42:02.650 pending but it is written in rust and it is in nix packages so that's actually how i found it. 00:42:02.650 --> 00:42:08.790 That's cool nice little find there yeah i got i think i have a couple of finds 00:42:08.790 --> 00:42:11.110 maybe you guys haven't seen i'm not sure we'll see when. 00:42:11.110 --> 00:42:14.570 Yeah it does have like some basic like filtering support you can browse through 00:42:14.570 --> 00:42:18.790 your your files in it uh and then it does have some support for parsing out 00:42:18.790 --> 00:42:22.590 stuff for like calendar and time management too which i didn't try the time 00:42:22.590 --> 00:42:26.510 management stuff but it you can have it like figure out calendar stuff which is neat. 00:42:26.510 --> 00:42:28.370 It sounds like you got all the base points i'm guessing. 00:42:28.370 --> 00:42:32.270 Yeah i did also cheat a bit on the browser part so you should i should only 00:42:32.270 --> 00:42:34.050 get the 10 there for sure yeah i think. 00:42:34.050 --> 00:42:37.870 We're all just getting 10 for that one there were moments boys there were moments 00:42:37.870 --> 00:42:40.630 i mean you gotta get you gotta do the job and multitasking. 00:42:40.630 --> 00:42:44.410 Uh yeah i was also just sticking with zelige because i've been using it a lot 00:42:44.410 --> 00:42:46.570 lately anyway it's solid it's kind of taking over it's. 00:42:46.570 --> 00:42:50.210 Totally solid so i don't really you know mine were not that surprising i've 00:42:50.210 --> 00:42:53.390 sort of covered them as you boys have gone along uh but i did a couple of different 00:42:53.390 --> 00:42:55.770 so i'll swap mine out uh for task management, 00:42:56.599 --> 00:43:02.159 Todoist CLI, I've recently gone back to using Todoist about three months ago. 00:43:02.939 --> 00:43:06.619 It's just because, for this reason, everything talks to Todoist. 00:43:06.619 --> 00:43:07.059 It's true, yeah. 00:43:07.099 --> 00:43:08.179 It's really great. 00:43:08.379 --> 00:43:11.899 I'm missing LogSeek because I've been spinning out of Todoist into Log. 00:43:12.139 --> 00:43:12.999 Yeah, yeah. 00:43:12.999 --> 00:43:14.719 If I hadn't done that, this would have been easier. 00:43:16.199 --> 00:43:20.679 GoMux totally worked out great for me, a 2E matrix client written in Go. 00:43:20.999 --> 00:43:22.979 Oh, yeah, I was using Iamb. 00:43:23.199 --> 00:43:23.499 Oh, yeah? 00:43:23.779 --> 00:43:27.159 Uh-huh, matrix client for Vim Addicts Red X written in Rust. 00:43:27.439 --> 00:43:32.999 Yeah, there it is. This one is written in Go, and I think this is the one that's sticking. 00:43:33.139 --> 00:43:37.259 I've had trouble getting it verified, though. I think I'll figure that out. 00:43:37.539 --> 00:43:42.979 But I actually think this one might stick because I love just having the matrix chat in a terminal. 00:43:43.279 --> 00:43:48.299 The resource usage is fantastically different. Oh, yours looks a lot like IRC. 00:43:48.959 --> 00:43:53.239 Oh, mine looks like Element, but in the terminal. Yours looks like an IRC client. 00:43:53.399 --> 00:43:55.999 I kind of like yours, too. Have you been enjoying it? 00:43:56.139 --> 00:44:00.619 Yeah. It's pretty minimal. And it is, right? So if I want to go explore rooms, 00:44:00.679 --> 00:44:02.739 I have to type colon and then rooms. 00:44:02.879 --> 00:44:03.619 Yeah, yeah, sure. 00:44:03.619 --> 00:44:07.819 But you can use slash and then just type for search. You can do a lot of the 00:44:07.819 --> 00:44:09.219 Vim key bindings are all there. 00:44:09.319 --> 00:44:09.719 Of course. 00:44:10.199 --> 00:44:13.459 You can use GG and Shift-G to navigate up and down the page. 00:44:13.539 --> 00:44:15.419 So it's all very natural if you know Vim movements. 00:44:16.199 --> 00:44:19.219 As a Starlink user, ping times are pretty important to me. 00:44:19.339 --> 00:44:22.759 We've mentioned this app before, but there's a couple of these where I was like, 00:44:22.819 --> 00:44:25.219 oh, yeah, I know this app. I'm going to use this while I'm doing the TUI challenge. 00:44:25.379 --> 00:44:30.759 And one of those was GPing, which gives you an NCURSES graph of your ping latency 00:44:30.759 --> 00:44:32.439 up and down, which has been really nice to see. 00:44:32.959 --> 00:44:38.339 And then I started the TUI challenge at the studio, and then I realized I need to go home. 00:44:38.559 --> 00:44:43.059 I've got to switch Wi-Fi. There's several ways to do that, but Impala is a TUI 00:44:43.059 --> 00:44:44.679 for managing Wi-Fi on Linux. 00:44:44.919 --> 00:44:48.399 Oh, smart. I was just supplicating like an animal. 00:44:48.839 --> 00:44:53.099 And then like you, Wes, I use CMOS. Small, fast, fast. 00:44:53.740 --> 00:44:59.660 Very light. And I just added a podcast. And it's really easy just to add also 00:44:59.660 --> 00:45:03.820 a directory or an individual file. And there's kind of like a Vim command. 00:45:04.020 --> 00:45:07.520 And you get into the command mode. And then you tell you want to add. 00:45:07.560 --> 00:45:10.600 And it'll start auto-completing the path for you. And then it just figures it out. 00:45:10.600 --> 00:45:12.880 It's very efficient. If you just want to listen. Yeah, exactly. 00:45:13.000 --> 00:45:14.360 Like you have a folder of music. 00:45:14.600 --> 00:45:14.760 Yeah. 00:45:15.060 --> 00:45:15.860 Boom. No problem. 00:45:16.000 --> 00:45:20.340 Yeah. Yeah. So that was, those all worked. I don't know. 00:45:20.700 --> 00:45:24.680 There was every, I got every category. I didn't get very many bonus points though, Brent. 00:45:24.920 --> 00:45:26.120 Well, that's not quite true. 00:45:26.420 --> 00:45:26.920 Oh, yeah? 00:45:27.140 --> 00:45:32.700 Yeah, because you get a bonus point for syncing your tasks with Todoist. 00:45:32.700 --> 00:45:35.560 Oh, okay. That's nice, I suppose. 00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:37.360 Well, if you don't want to, we don't have to get it. 00:45:37.360 --> 00:45:43.520 No, I'll take it. I'll take it. I think I was really struggling to get the apps running. 00:45:43.700 --> 00:45:47.160 And so then by the time I got them running, I was like, I'm just going to get to work here. 00:45:47.900 --> 00:45:49.740 You know, I'm just going to try to get the basics done. 00:45:50.200 --> 00:45:55.400 I take it none of you boys did any batch operations in your TUI file manager? 00:45:55.720 --> 00:45:59.720 Not unless do we count moving a directory of files as a batch operation? 00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:00.260 Not at all. 00:46:00.340 --> 00:46:00.540 No. 00:46:01.160 --> 00:46:02.480 I did in DUA. 00:46:03.020 --> 00:46:03.480 Oh, yeah. 00:46:03.560 --> 00:46:03.780 Okay. 00:46:03.960 --> 00:46:04.840 I did a batch delete. 00:46:05.360 --> 00:46:05.700 Okay. 00:46:06.640 --> 00:46:08.680 I mean, I think we have to give it to him. 00:46:08.820 --> 00:46:08.940 Yeah. 00:46:10.120 --> 00:46:11.840 Also, I have a bunch more picks if we want to. 00:46:12.040 --> 00:46:14.420 Yeah, give us a rattle off a couple while Brent totals it up, 00:46:14.480 --> 00:46:15.300 and then we'll get our total going. 00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:18.960 Okay, so for more system management, I tried out system CTL TUI. 00:46:18.960 --> 00:46:21.800 oh cool yeah yeah just kind of a you know a nice 00:46:21.800 --> 00:46:24.620 little way to check out what's running in systemd which you know 00:46:24.620 --> 00:46:27.580 it's nice on the file management front it's not really management 00:46:27.580 --> 00:46:30.460 but i found um tdf which is 00:46:30.460 --> 00:46:33.560 a tui based pdf viewer uh that's 00:46:33.560 --> 00:46:36.340 surprisingly decent actually cool let's see 00:46:36.340 --> 00:46:39.440 i on the dev side i checked out uh 00:46:39.440 --> 00:46:42.320 jqp which is a tui playground to 00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:46.560 experiment with jq if you ever use jq you kind of write semi-cryptic little 00:46:46.560 --> 00:46:51.260 strings to parse through json files um so it's nice to have like an environment 00:46:51.260 --> 00:46:54.720 that can like you know refresh it for you and reevaluate your rule and play 00:46:54.720 --> 00:46:59.540 around right and then also rain frog which is a database management tui, 00:47:00.460 --> 00:47:04.820 because you know sometimes it's already psql but i wanted to see what else if it's on the. 00:47:04.820 --> 00:47:09.120 Tui it means you can ssh in and use it you know what i mean yep that's pretty good all right. 00:47:09.120 --> 00:47:16.420 Let's see for the LLM I did Parallama which you can it's kind of got a nice 00:47:16.420 --> 00:47:20.800 graphical TUI for choosing models and then you know kind of standard thing for chatting with them, 00:47:21.647 --> 00:47:25.347 And then to try to make my life a little bit easier for some of the stuff that 00:47:25.347 --> 00:47:31.187 I could answer this way, I started using WikiTui, which is a Wikipedia-specific 00:47:31.187 --> 00:47:33.407 Tui, you know, which has pretty nice support. 00:47:33.707 --> 00:47:34.067 Wow. 00:47:34.247 --> 00:47:38.447 It uses the text interface, right? So it's like you didn't have to backwards 00:47:38.447 --> 00:47:41.567 try to support the web. You could just get right access to the information. 00:47:41.747 --> 00:47:44.687 It's so nice. All right. So we will have links to all of those plus all of ours 00:47:44.687 --> 00:47:48.167 that we used in the show notes at linuxunplugged.com slash 619. 00:47:48.167 --> 00:47:49.087 But you know what that means? 00:47:49.647 --> 00:47:54.227 it is now time for us to add up our scores and see how we all did. 00:47:54.447 --> 00:47:55.687 Brent, do you have the math over there? 00:47:55.867 --> 00:47:59.607 I have some math but I think I'm going to advocate for extra points for you 00:47:59.607 --> 00:48:05.867 guys if you want me to Okay So one thing we didn't answer, did you use your 00:48:05.867 --> 00:48:09.387 terminal multitasking app to have more than one session open? 00:48:09.547 --> 00:48:13.707 Yes Okay, let me add extra points here for you. 00:48:13.787 --> 00:48:15.407 Would have gone insane if I couldn't do that. 00:48:15.527 --> 00:48:18.087 Yeah, mandatory Okay, 00:48:20.107 --> 00:48:20.827 He's mathing. 00:48:21.087 --> 00:48:25.307 Yeah, math hard. Actually, our rules don't actually say how many points you 00:48:25.307 --> 00:48:27.107 get for that. So how many points would you like for that? 00:48:27.287 --> 00:48:27.467 Five? 00:48:27.687 --> 00:48:27.827 Yeah. 00:48:27.847 --> 00:48:28.487 That seemed fair? Five. 00:48:28.587 --> 00:48:29.487 A little sprinkle of points. 00:48:29.547 --> 00:48:29.687 Yeah. 00:48:30.247 --> 00:48:31.987 All right. We'll give you extra points for that. 00:48:32.027 --> 00:48:32.487 That's exciting. 00:48:32.847 --> 00:48:35.447 You're using some sort of TUI-based calculator, right? 00:48:36.107 --> 00:48:43.067 Oh, yeah. Oh, yes, indeed. Okay. And I also feel like you could get some extra, extra points here. 00:48:43.327 --> 00:48:46.587 So, Chris, you used GoMux to browse Matrix. 00:48:47.127 --> 00:48:52.107 I think that's pretty fancy. so I'm open to giving extra points for... 00:48:52.107 --> 00:48:52.447 Is it? Is that? 00:48:52.947 --> 00:48:53.707 I didn't do it. 00:48:54.347 --> 00:48:55.087 Is it fancy? 00:48:55.347 --> 00:48:56.707 Well, how about five for each of us then? 00:48:56.707 --> 00:49:01.187 Okay, five for Wes and I, yeah. Now you've got to give us the math before the music runs out. 00:49:01.247 --> 00:49:06.987 Oh, how much time do I have? But Wes, you also did LLMs. Do you want some extra five points for that? 00:49:07.047 --> 00:49:08.027 Yeah, but you should get it then too. 00:49:08.067 --> 00:49:10.067 Yeah, exactly. That's where I'm headed with this. 00:49:10.867 --> 00:49:13.447 Wait, I use an LLM. I just did it in the browser. Does that count? 00:49:13.607 --> 00:49:15.987 Not at all. Okay. 00:49:16.447 --> 00:49:17.447 Then a judge comes out. 00:49:17.647 --> 00:49:21.987 Do you want to guess? Who you think is at the top, based on our explorations here? 00:49:22.067 --> 00:49:22.447 I think you. 00:49:25.467 --> 00:49:26.367 Wes, any guesses? 00:49:26.747 --> 00:49:27.747 I'm going to go with you as well. 00:49:27.867 --> 00:49:35.227 Oh my god, you guys. Okay, here are the scores. So I have 9 zero points, 90 points. 00:49:35.327 --> 00:49:35.587 Uh-oh. 00:49:35.687 --> 00:49:41.287 I got a big minus 20 for the task management, but I also didn't get 20 points. 00:49:41.327 --> 00:49:43.327 So that's actually like 40 missed points. 00:49:44.247 --> 00:49:45.787 And Wes, you got... 00:49:48.040 --> 00:49:51.000 145 nice job wes nice. 00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:52.920 Job nice job and. 00:49:52.920 --> 00:49:54.760 Chris you got 75 points. 00:49:54.760 --> 00:49:57.100 So wes you are the winner. 00:49:57.100 --> 00:50:03.120 I did not expect that congratulations wes i have to share my prize with next 00:50:03.120 --> 00:50:06.340 packages because i gotta say compared to your experience it felt like cheating 00:50:06.340 --> 00:50:10.040 because not only could i browse for ideas to try but then like for most of them 00:50:10.040 --> 00:50:13.460 i mean not all of them worked but most of them you know they just pretty much ran i. 00:50:13.460 --> 00:50:17.980 Hey man i picked the hill to climb and at the end i think It was helpful, 00:50:18.180 --> 00:50:21.020 but it took me the entire week practically to get there. 00:50:21.360 --> 00:50:25.060 So a couple of these, I think the matrix client and the email client are sticking 00:50:25.060 --> 00:50:26.760 because I have them set up already. 00:50:27.160 --> 00:50:30.720 So I'm just going to keep using them. So in the end, I'm walking away with a 00:50:30.720 --> 00:50:31.900 couple of applications I'm still using. 00:50:32.700 --> 00:50:35.720 I'm curious in this challenge, do you have any lessons learned you want to share? 00:50:35.920 --> 00:50:39.080 Anything that really was like an aha moment in trying all of this? 00:50:39.220 --> 00:50:41.860 If you haven't used Midnight Commander yet, give it a try. 00:50:44.940 --> 00:50:48.900 Unraid.net slash unplugged. Head on over there to check them out and support 00:50:48.900 --> 00:50:51.120 the show and unleash your hardware. 00:50:51.340 --> 00:50:55.260 Unraid.net slash unplugged. I'd like to introduce you to Unraid. 00:50:55.360 --> 00:50:58.900 You might not be familiar with them. They're a powerful, easy-to-use NAS operating 00:50:58.900 --> 00:51:02.680 system built on top of modern Linux for those who want control, 00:51:02.880 --> 00:51:06.560 flexibility, and efficiency in managing your own data, your privacy, 00:51:06.700 --> 00:51:08.340 and your own applications. 00:51:08.860 --> 00:51:11.800 And Unraid allows you to mix and match the drive of any size. 00:51:11.940 --> 00:51:14.520 So if you've got multiple different sized disks, you can put them in the machine 00:51:14.520 --> 00:51:18.860 and it'll work with you. It also supports all the modern ZFS and other file systems. 00:51:19.180 --> 00:51:22.660 XFS and others are in there as well. And they've integrated tail scales. 00:51:22.660 --> 00:51:25.900 So you can bring remote access to your applications with a checkbox. 00:51:26.460 --> 00:51:31.160 No port boarding, no static IPs, no complex firewall rules. None of that stuff 00:51:31.160 --> 00:51:31.980 you've got to worry about. 00:51:32.160 --> 00:51:35.280 It'll just integrate right into your tail net. And there are... 00:51:36.191 --> 00:51:41.611 I mean, thousands, thousands of different applications that are just one click away to install. 00:51:41.771 --> 00:51:45.491 A lot of the stuff we talk about all the time and more is in there, 00:51:45.591 --> 00:51:50.951 including special versions. If you have AMD hardware or Intel hardware or NVIDIA 00:51:50.951 --> 00:51:53.471 hardware, so you can get things that are GPU accelerated. 00:51:53.691 --> 00:51:59.211 They also make it really straightforward to get Linux VMs going with virtual GPU support. 00:51:59.591 --> 00:52:02.751 So you could have multiple GPUs in there. You could have one GPU in there. 00:52:02.751 --> 00:52:05.591 you can work with their vm system to pass that through to 00:52:05.591 --> 00:52:08.411 your linux machine oh something else that i think is really nice because 00:52:08.411 --> 00:52:11.951 this recently shipped in unraid 7.1 if you've 00:52:11.951 --> 00:52:15.111 got uh like an ubuntu system now or a free nas 00:52:15.111 --> 00:52:20.031 or maybe a proxmox system using zfs and it was good but you want to move to 00:52:20.031 --> 00:52:23.071 something a little more robust a little bit more feature rich that'd be like 00:52:23.071 --> 00:52:29.611 unraid well unraid 7.1 now lets you import those zfs pools yeah you can just 00:52:29.611 --> 00:52:32.611 bring them right in so that's slick. 00:52:32.751 --> 00:52:34.591 If you've got data on there, you've got virtual machines already, 00:52:34.731 --> 00:52:37.731 just bring them right in to Unraid 7.1. 00:52:38.051 --> 00:52:40.851 They also have a 30-day free trial that lets you test out Unraid, 00:52:40.951 --> 00:52:42.031 no credit card required. 00:52:42.291 --> 00:52:45.271 This is nice, too, because it means they have a sustainable development model 00:52:45.271 --> 00:52:47.871 over there, and they keep building, and they have been iterating for so many 00:52:47.871 --> 00:52:49.251 years on making this thing just a champ. 00:52:49.451 --> 00:52:53.911 So go check it out and support the show. It's unraid.net slash unplugged. 00:52:53.931 --> 00:52:56.911 Go see what you can build, play with the stuff we talk about, 00:52:57.031 --> 00:53:01.411 and build something reliable and useful for yourself, for your friends, or for your family. 00:53:01.651 --> 00:53:04.951 Get started at unraid.net slash unplugged. 00:53:08.154 --> 00:53:11.354 Well, we got a bunch of feedback from the Terminal 2E Challenge. 00:53:11.614 --> 00:53:16.034 Thank you, everyone. We got one here that we're pulling out from Don Harper, who sent in an email. 00:53:16.594 --> 00:53:22.294 Hashtag 2E Challenge. Hey, guys, I thought you might want to follow my attempt on the 2E Challenge. 00:53:22.874 --> 00:53:27.234 They wrote a series of blog posts over at duckland.org. 00:53:28.094 --> 00:53:32.494 And he says, great to see you folks in Boston. So I've pulled a couple little 00:53:32.494 --> 00:53:34.614 excerpts from those blog posts. You want to hear? 00:53:34.794 --> 00:53:35.574 Yeah, sure. Thanks, Don. 00:53:35.834 --> 00:53:40.074 All right. Day one here. Text editing. Since I normally read my email and RSS 00:53:40.074 --> 00:53:44.594 feeds in a TUI app, and I use Vim as my editor and IDE, I figured it would be 00:53:44.594 --> 00:53:47.314 fairly easy for me to take part in this one. 00:53:47.594 --> 00:53:50.914 That's what I was thinking coming into it. I thought, hey, I've used some of 00:53:50.914 --> 00:53:53.054 these apps for years. This is going to be no problem. 00:53:53.474 --> 00:53:58.854 Yeah, turns out not so much. Zidane says, there are bonus points for using a 00:53:58.854 --> 00:54:03.274 script to help things out, and I guess the script I use to start editing a file should work. 00:54:03.414 --> 00:54:07.034 And he included that script, which is kind of nice. Day two here, 00:54:07.154 --> 00:54:11.514 email, since I already live in NeoMutt, I should probably describe my setup. 00:54:11.794 --> 00:54:17.474 So they use Gmail, and for filtering, use a tool called Gmail CTL. 00:54:17.994 --> 00:54:21.814 Don says, which allows me to control Gmail's filters from my computer, 00:54:21.954 --> 00:54:25.194 works by connecting to Gmail and pulling down the filter definition file and 00:54:25.194 --> 00:54:26.834 then firing up my default editor. 00:54:27.014 --> 00:54:29.774 Once I'm happy with the changes, it'll upload it back to Gmail. 00:54:30.034 --> 00:54:31.634 That is a real Linux nerd solution. 00:54:31.854 --> 00:54:37.814 He also uses SystemDTimer to schedule the sync runs for the email and runs not 00:54:37.814 --> 00:54:39.914 much to index the mail so you can search through it all. 00:54:41.354 --> 00:54:46.674 And day 7, TMUX, with the first pane split into 4 to show the tools off, 00:54:46.774 --> 00:54:50.074 but I have also I also have panes for my email RSS, 00:54:50.394 --> 00:54:57.754 Mastodon client and SSH shells on a couple other machines, which brings my grand total to 200 points. 00:54:58.854 --> 00:55:01.174 Not bad! Not bad at all! 00:55:01.614 --> 00:55:05.714 There's a bunch more details in there. There's basically a blog post for every 00:55:05.714 --> 00:55:09.694 day's challenge, which is a fun read. So duckland.org for that. 00:55:10.294 --> 00:55:11.874 Yeah. Thank you for sharing. 00:55:12.154 --> 00:55:15.574 I love that we heard from some folks now that have been like mostly living in 00:55:15.574 --> 00:55:19.234 the TUI, you know, already using their TUI apps. It's hilarious. 00:55:19.714 --> 00:55:25.474 Speaking of mostly living in the TUI, Darnier sent in really fascinating details 00:55:25.474 --> 00:55:31.434 about how they use the TUI and some tools that they were involved in way, way early. 00:55:32.534 --> 00:55:37.354 so neomut being one of them actually so i think we'll read that in the post show. 00:55:39.114 --> 00:55:43.034 Well that means it is time to read some boost and we got some tui challenge 00:55:43.034 --> 00:55:47.174 follow-ups in the boost too and we're going to start with someone else who is 00:55:47.174 --> 00:55:51.234 our baller booster this week with a generous 100 000 sats, 00:55:55.032 --> 00:55:59.672 Thank you very much, someone else. Our longtime listener, Sporadic Booster. 00:55:59.972 --> 00:56:03.512 That's, well, we appreciate it very much. Checking in with a nice valuable boost. 00:56:03.792 --> 00:56:05.712 Making up for lost time. It's good to hear from you. 00:56:07.252 --> 00:56:10.392 Adversaries 17 comes in with 42,000 sets. 00:56:10.592 --> 00:56:12.172 Hey, it's adversaries. There he is. 00:56:15.132 --> 00:56:21.152 So, does Emacs count as a TUI? Technically, doesn't it have a daemon and then a GUI client app? 00:56:21.452 --> 00:56:26.132 If it does, then I don't know what problem there is, because Emacs is the whole darn operating system. 00:56:27.372 --> 00:56:32.112 A long time ago, he goes on, in a Pacific Northwest far away from me, 00:56:32.312 --> 00:56:36.752 three hosts, well, really only three years ago, had a mission to get a ham radio license. 00:56:36.772 --> 00:56:37.092 Oh, no. 00:56:37.232 --> 00:56:37.512 Uh-oh. 00:56:37.532 --> 00:56:40.612 I waited and waited and waited and waited, saying when they do, 00:56:40.612 --> 00:56:43.052 I will. It'll be a whole JB community thing. 00:56:43.152 --> 00:56:43.652 Oh, no. 00:56:43.872 --> 00:56:48.372 Well, I got tired of waiting, so I went and took the test. Get your ham radio 00:56:48.372 --> 00:56:50.432 license, guys. It's not that hard. 00:56:53.952 --> 00:56:55.392 ke9 dmq out. 00:56:55.392 --> 00:56:59.032 Thank you adversaries very nice now you know adversaries maybe we should do 00:56:59.032 --> 00:57:03.572 that for another challenge one day we got to recover from these challenges this one ham chow this, 00:57:05.732 --> 00:57:09.112 yeah make a whole ham sandwich theme out of it too thank you for the boost. 00:57:09.112 --> 00:57:13.592 Well shy fox boosted in 30,999 cents. 00:57:16.312 --> 00:57:21.672 I love this challenge. I learned a lot and will keep using some of those TUI tools. 00:57:22.292 --> 00:57:26.412 They also link to basically their TUI challenge results here. 00:57:26.592 --> 00:57:31.292 Let's see if we can figure this out. The total didn't do so good on email management, 00:57:31.292 --> 00:57:33.352 it looks like, but the total, 100 points. 00:57:33.452 --> 00:57:34.752 100 points, not bad at all. 00:57:34.912 --> 00:57:35.332 Excellent. 00:57:35.712 --> 00:57:36.072 Beat me. 00:57:36.472 --> 00:57:36.812 Right? 00:57:36.932 --> 00:57:39.112 I think that beat me. That's so bad. 00:57:39.412 --> 00:57:42.412 They also included a bunch of backgrounds and some screenshots. 00:57:42.512 --> 00:57:43.772 We'll be sure to link to that. 00:57:44.312 --> 00:57:48.692 I'm glad you enjoyed it. I think ShyFox, I also, you know, parts of it were 00:57:48.692 --> 00:57:53.152 torturous for me, but it was sort of a nice reminder of how good we have it 00:57:53.152 --> 00:57:56.232 now and to get out of the comfort zone and then to walk away with a couple of 00:57:56.232 --> 00:57:58.992 apps and kind of like a new understanding of how to use Bluefin. 00:57:59.332 --> 00:58:05.172 It doesn't seem like maybe the email worked great for them, but they did find Himalaya. 00:58:05.972 --> 00:58:06.712 Oh, yeah, okay. 00:58:06.992 --> 00:58:11.832 A CLI to manage emails written in Rust. It's got a nice little minimal UI to 00:58:11.832 --> 00:58:13.712 it. So there's a lot of good options. 00:58:13.992 --> 00:58:15.372 Thank you for the boost, Jack Fox. 00:58:15.512 --> 00:58:18.412 Oh, they also use tell jelly fin to we. 00:58:18.512 --> 00:58:22.872 I wanted to try that. I was on, that was on my list of things to try. 00:58:22.972 --> 00:58:25.872 I just really, we just didn't watch much TV this week. We were busy. 00:58:26.212 --> 00:58:27.572 Do we challenge week two is coming up? 00:58:27.672 --> 00:58:31.692 Oh my gosh. Turd Ferguson comes in with 22,000 sets. 00:58:36.340 --> 00:58:39.740 Loved the last episode. It had me laughing. Some of us still use mutt. 00:58:39.780 --> 00:58:42.500 And let me tell you, that old dog still hunts. 00:58:43.440 --> 00:58:46.940 You know what? We're finding out a lot of our audience is still using these. 00:58:47.040 --> 00:58:47.680 That's surprising. 00:58:48.080 --> 00:58:50.440 Chris, you said you were going to use mutt when this all started. 00:58:50.480 --> 00:58:53.820 I thought I was. And I did not remember how to use it. 00:58:55.320 --> 00:58:59.300 It's true. It's true. That was it. I just don't know what happened. 00:59:00.800 --> 00:59:03.580 Big ol' boosts in with 21,000 cents. 00:59:07.240 --> 00:59:13.540 I love the TUI challenge idea. I use system CTL TUI, Enmon, and Alacrity with 00:59:13.540 --> 00:59:18.240 Zellage, and I'm looking forward to trying many more of the TUI applications mentioned in the show. 00:59:18.500 --> 00:59:19.080 Ah, very good. 00:59:19.200 --> 00:59:20.200 See, another TUI natural. 00:59:20.360 --> 00:59:20.580 Yeah. 00:59:21.200 --> 00:59:27.580 Well, Gene Bean sends in 4,444. That's two. What do we call them? 00:59:28.220 --> 00:59:29.800 You mean rows of ducks or like a McDuck? 00:59:29.800 --> 00:59:30.540 Two rows of ducks. 00:59:31.640 --> 00:59:34.000 It could also be an Aflac duck. 00:59:34.780 --> 00:59:37.360 Says i'd love some open shift coverage. 00:59:37.360 --> 00:59:38.040 Okay you. 00:59:38.040 --> 00:59:39.000 Were asking for some feedback. 00:59:39.000 --> 00:59:40.260 I was thank you. 00:59:40.260 --> 00:59:43.100 I'd also welcome coverage of its upstream okd. 00:59:43.100 --> 00:59:46.320 Oh yeah that was something that crossed my mind too was chasing down the upstream 00:59:46.320 --> 00:59:49.880 projects and taking a look at those uh he also sent me a dm and i'm going to 00:59:49.880 --> 00:59:53.200 share it with you guys after the show uh i don't want to share too much because 00:59:53.200 --> 00:59:59.520 it was a private dm but uh shout out to gene son who also listens to the podcast that's cool, 01:00:02.840 --> 01:00:05.560 Outdoor Geek is here with 5,000 sats. 01:00:07.620 --> 01:00:14.960 A tip for the privacy tech person. The 2024 Subaru Crosstek base model doesn't have a cell modem. 01:00:15.040 --> 01:00:18.380 It has two smaller touchscreens instead of one giant one, which means they're 01:00:18.380 --> 01:00:19.780 including more buttons and knobs. 01:00:19.980 --> 01:00:22.840 The base model still includes adaptive cruise, lane keeping, 01:00:23.040 --> 01:00:24.540 emergency braking, Android Auto, etc. 01:00:24.960 --> 01:00:28.220 I wonder if the low end of other model brands are preferable to some. 01:00:28.900 --> 01:00:30.680 that is to me chris. 01:00:30.680 --> 01:00:32.360 You don't love subarus. 01:00:32.360 --> 01:00:34.260 I mean i just don't love what they've become. 01:00:35.260 --> 01:00:36.020 What have they. 01:00:36.020 --> 01:00:42.020 Become they're like minivans now on car platforms that's their huge vehicles um yeah. 01:00:42.720 --> 01:00:43.820 Complicated often too. 01:00:43.820 --> 01:00:47.500 But i do like this this is i like that direction they start going more in that 01:00:47.500 --> 01:00:48.720 direction i'm all about that. 01:00:48.720 --> 01:00:50.020 They're finally listening. 01:00:50.020 --> 01:00:53.280 Walk it back manufacturers just walk it back a little bit my. 01:00:53.280 --> 01:00:56.500 Other suggestion would be i don't know a van of the. 01:00:57.060 --> 01:00:57.760 1990s era. 01:00:59.160 --> 01:01:00.640 Early or late. 01:01:01.840 --> 01:01:04.100 Early go. 01:01:04.100 --> 01:01:10.200 Early Antoine 1109 boosts in with 4,444 sats, 01:01:13.032 --> 01:01:18.232 definite yes on the red hat open shift deep dive we use vmware currently and 01:01:18.232 --> 01:01:21.632 i've looked at proxmox and hyper v and would really love to get your take on 01:01:21.632 --> 01:01:23.432 open shift from a linux admin perspective. 01:01:23.432 --> 01:01:26.332 I think it's time to get on that i think it is thank you 01:01:26.332 --> 01:01:29.652 antwan appreciate that feedback and i've heard that from a lot of people at 01:01:29.652 --> 01:01:33.272 red hat summit uh they are not happy with the direction things are going through 01:01:33.272 --> 01:01:36.812 vmware and they are shopping and i think it's a good time for us to take a look 01:01:36.812 --> 01:01:42.032 in because they've been modifying upgrading improving the product to try to 01:01:42.032 --> 01:01:44.532 address that customer base. Let's see if they've done it. 01:01:46.292 --> 01:01:50.392 Well, SystemDBSDD sent in 3,433 sats. 01:01:52.132 --> 01:01:55.672 What do you all think of Apple's new containerization framework? 01:01:56.172 --> 01:01:59.132 Answer to WSL, maybe? Threat to Linux? 01:01:59.732 --> 01:02:03.912 We did some coverage of this in the members bootleg version earlier today in 01:02:03.912 --> 01:02:05.112 the show, and it's interesting. 01:02:05.672 --> 01:02:10.972 Just a quick overview. In macOS 26, a new container command is going to be available, 01:02:10.972 --> 01:02:16.132 And when you execute it, it will pull down Linux images and then it will run 01:02:16.132 --> 01:02:18.032 them in what they're calling a lightweight VM. 01:02:18.292 --> 01:02:22.712 So it's like a tiny little VM that runs a tiny version of Linux kernel with a custom in its system. 01:02:22.832 --> 01:02:25.072 Just enough to boot up and then start the container. 01:02:25.572 --> 01:02:27.872 Each container does run its own kernel. 01:02:29.053 --> 01:02:32.433 I think the thing for me is like, you know, there's a lot of developers with 01:02:32.433 --> 01:02:37.973 Mac laptops and there are a lot of options, Podman desktop, Docker desktop, 01:02:38.313 --> 01:02:42.073 Colima and Lima, I think have been pretty great tools, but all of these, 01:02:42.193 --> 01:02:46.633 there's kind of like more setup and for some baby, maybe you want to customize, 01:02:46.653 --> 01:02:49.733 you want to have ability to like run more stuff inside this VM where all your 01:02:49.733 --> 01:02:51.753 containers are running or take advantage of other workflows. 01:02:52.573 --> 01:02:57.293 But having something that's just simple and well-supported, kind of more stock 01:02:57.293 --> 01:03:00.353 out of the box, I think is probably going to be a usability win, 01:03:00.553 --> 01:03:06.613 both just that and then whatever other tools can sort of be used as orchestration on top of this. 01:03:06.713 --> 01:03:07.393 Oh, that could be interesting. 01:03:07.593 --> 01:03:09.793 You could totally see some more open source stuff making this easier. 01:03:10.153 --> 01:03:13.013 Yeah, I bet you will. GUI apps and whatnot. 01:03:13.573 --> 01:03:17.833 I'll just add this system, DBSD. I think it's a capitulation from Apple. 01:03:17.833 --> 01:03:22.873 And when the WWDC video that explains this feature starts, they introduce it 01:03:22.873 --> 01:03:27.373 by saying containers are the standard way to ship software on servers, 01:03:27.613 --> 01:03:30.093 not on Linux, but on servers. 01:03:30.273 --> 01:03:33.993 Now, that's a pretty big statement when you consider that it wasn't that long 01:03:33.993 --> 01:03:38.753 ago that macOS server was a product and Apple even sold server hardware. 01:03:39.513 --> 01:03:43.293 Now we live in a time when Apple talks about shipping software on servers, 01:03:43.293 --> 01:03:44.833 they're talking about Linux containers. 01:03:44.833 --> 01:03:51.353 And so it's an acknowledgment that their user base needs to have a good production 01:03:51.353 --> 01:03:54.993 system or at least semi-quasi production that they can build on and then ship. 01:03:55.373 --> 01:03:57.893 So it's an interesting capitulation from Apple in that regard. 01:03:59.513 --> 01:04:07.013 And it also now means, as a result, both Microsoft and Apple are shipping commercial 01:04:07.013 --> 01:04:11.393 operating systems that take advantage of the Linux kernel and either distribute 01:04:11.393 --> 01:04:12.953 it after the fact in some form or another. 01:04:13.433 --> 01:04:15.573 and that's a remarkable moment to be in as well. 01:04:16.453 --> 01:04:22.753 Thank you for the boost. Brett came in with 2,222 sats. That is a row of ducks. 01:04:24.222 --> 01:04:26.962 Stay out of my van. All right. Thanks, Brett. 01:04:27.322 --> 01:04:33.282 I know what the user agent here is for Brent instead of something like fountain. Interesting. 01:04:33.782 --> 01:04:38.142 Very sus. Brett's hacking the system. 01:04:38.522 --> 01:04:39.582 Brett Johnson, that is. 01:04:40.522 --> 01:04:45.822 Kalech Bussin with another Robodux. Greetings from Poland. 01:04:46.022 --> 01:04:46.262 Hello. 01:04:46.922 --> 01:04:50.182 I started my journey with Self Hosted a year ago and have been hooked on the 01:04:50.182 --> 01:04:53.122 network ever since. Welcome aboard. Thanks for listening. 01:04:53.602 --> 01:04:57.402 I just want to say thank you for the great content. I discovered a ton of self-hosted 01:04:57.402 --> 01:04:59.882 apps from your podcast and now use them almost every day. 01:05:00.302 --> 01:05:07.602 All running in Docker on a VM on an i3 8100T Fujitsu mini PC running Proxmox 01:05:07.602 --> 01:05:11.322 at home with USB 2TB hard drive for the Jellyfin library. 01:05:11.882 --> 01:05:17.162 Ooh, a mini PC. I love the mini PC for the HomeLab system. And I bet the i3 01:05:17.162 --> 01:05:18.342 doesn't use too much power either. 01:05:18.802 --> 01:05:18.982 Yeah. 01:05:19.442 --> 01:05:20.502 Nice. Okay. 01:05:20.742 --> 01:05:24.202 I will second the recommendation I heard here for Obsidian syncing. 01:05:24.482 --> 01:05:27.902 The Obsidian LiveSync plugin with a quick CouchDB container running over tail 01:05:27.902 --> 01:05:30.922 scale works really well across iOS and Linux. 01:05:31.502 --> 01:05:32.022 Okay. 01:05:32.482 --> 01:05:37.182 As for Nix, because of you, I'm tempted to try it one day. 01:05:37.442 --> 01:05:40.742 Yeah, you could always install it on your existing Linux of choice and play around with Nix. 01:05:40.862 --> 01:05:42.362 Yeah, a little Proxmox VM. Why not? 01:05:42.502 --> 01:05:46.142 So it's interesting the timing of this boost because just this last weekend, 01:05:46.142 --> 01:05:50.762 I was thinking, do I really want to pay another year of Obsidian Sync? Because it's not cheap. 01:05:50.922 --> 01:05:55.942 And so the LiveSync plugin and a CouchDB container on my tail net does seem 01:05:55.942 --> 01:05:57.642 like a pretty good solution. 01:05:58.362 --> 01:06:00.562 Thank you for that idea. I appreciate it, Kellogg. 01:06:01.302 --> 01:06:04.082 Well, hybrid sarcasm boosted in 10,000 sats. 01:06:08.382 --> 01:06:11.762 I spent some time with GoMux this week. I think I'll keep it around. 01:06:12.142 --> 01:06:15.942 Otherwise, you're all better men than I. I need my Goey. 01:06:16.162 --> 01:06:19.482 Oh, I don't know. I read we were suffering too. We were suffering. 01:06:19.702 --> 01:06:23.622 There were moments of bliss and retro beautiful nostalgia. 01:06:24.122 --> 01:06:27.462 You know, that nostalgia kit did come, and that is almost worth it on its own. 01:06:28.122 --> 01:06:31.722 But I agree. The Matrix client wasn't too bad. Thanks for the boost, Hybrid. 01:06:33.002 --> 01:06:36.422 Kongaroo Paradox is here with 8,400 sets. 01:06:42.122 --> 01:06:46.202 Hey, I'm boosting with my progress for the TUI Challenge. No time for more. 01:06:46.442 --> 01:06:48.602 So he's trying to do a little bit at the last minute. And he, 01:06:48.842 --> 01:06:53.202 see, does he have a total here, Brent? Oh, a total of 95 with two penalties applied. 01:06:53.702 --> 01:06:54.682 That's pretty good. 01:06:54.842 --> 01:06:56.222 That is pretty good. 01:06:56.442 --> 01:06:58.802 I mean, I'm saying it's pretty good because that's about what Chris and I got. 01:06:59.022 --> 01:07:02.962 He got a negative 20 on the email, but he got some bony points on the text, 01:07:02.962 --> 01:07:05.862 on web, on file. He's liking Yazzie, too. 01:07:06.966 --> 01:07:11.146 Very well done. To-do man was his task manager of choice. 01:07:11.846 --> 01:07:15.946 I had a great time with the TUI challenge. It was easy for me on the NeoVim 01:07:15.946 --> 01:07:18.086 and Tmuc side because, well, I daily drive it. 01:07:18.186 --> 01:07:21.186 But for the rest, it was great discovering all these new apps. 01:07:21.486 --> 01:07:26.426 The big surprise for me was how manageable it was to live without a full-fledged browser. 01:07:26.866 --> 01:07:32.506 Being used to Vim motions, W3M was great. It was a great experience to reduce 01:07:32.506 --> 01:07:34.266 the learning curve for text content. 01:07:35.486 --> 01:07:38.606 Broush, a little rough around the edges, but it got me the rest of the way. 01:07:38.806 --> 01:07:41.646 I was able to log into GitHub, and most of my tests were okay. 01:07:41.926 --> 01:07:45.246 I ran out of time to get email and music going, but I look forward to getting 01:07:45.246 --> 01:07:48.086 it done soon. You guys got me excited about going full Tui. 01:07:48.246 --> 01:07:48.746 Full Tui. 01:07:48.926 --> 01:07:52.006 Can't wait to hear how you guys did. Full Tui is great. 01:07:52.606 --> 01:07:53.686 It's not title material. 01:07:53.946 --> 01:07:57.106 Thanks, Kangaroo. Thank you for that boost. It's good to hear from you. 01:07:57.286 --> 01:08:00.926 And if you're listening after the fact, we still want to hear your reports. 01:08:01.006 --> 01:08:04.106 This is a topic we'd be happy to revisit for many episodes to come. 01:08:05.266 --> 01:08:09.006 So feel free to hashtag TuiChallenge email, or if you'd like to support the 01:08:09.006 --> 01:08:10.846 show with a boost, it's a great topic to boost in. 01:08:11.346 --> 01:08:18.126 Thank you everybody who boosted. We did a 1,000-sat cutoff for this week's episode, and we appreciate it. 01:08:18.506 --> 01:08:21.366 Normally what we do is we read all the boosts, but the ones that make it on 01:08:21.366 --> 01:08:22.866 the air are 2,000-sats and above. 01:08:23.126 --> 01:08:27.206 And if you'd like to boost in, fountain.fm makes it really easy because all 01:08:27.206 --> 01:08:30.866 of it's hosted for you, but there's also totally self-hosted routes and all of that available. 01:08:31.366 --> 01:08:33.826 Lots of apps, too, where you get all the podcasting, 2.0 features. 01:08:34.206 --> 01:08:35.706 Podcasting 2.0 is not just about boosting. 01:08:36.046 --> 01:08:40.426 You get chapters. You get also in there live stream support, 01:08:40.526 --> 01:08:44.766 which I think is I just don't think people wrap their head around how cool this is. 01:08:44.926 --> 01:08:47.666 You subscribe to the podcast and you get our podcast like regular, 01:08:47.826 --> 01:08:51.986 but if you're on a 2.0 app you also see when we're live and there's a lot of 01:08:51.986 --> 01:08:53.006 content on the live stream. 01:08:53.286 --> 01:08:55.446 So there's a bunch of other great features, but that's some of it. 01:08:55.726 --> 01:08:58.846 But thank you everybody who participated in this week's episode. We 01:08:58.846 --> 01:09:03.746 had 22 of you stream sats as you listened i always appreciate that and you all 01:09:03.746 --> 01:09:10.326 collectively stacked 50 50 000 299 sats for the show which is not bad at all 01:09:10.326 --> 01:09:13.826 thank you sat streamers when you combine that with our boosters we had a really 01:09:13.826 --> 01:09:18.666 good showing we had 306 863 sats total for this week. 01:09:31.160 --> 01:09:35.320 Thank you everybody who supported this episode, episode 619 with a boost. 01:09:35.440 --> 01:09:39.480 And of course, a shout out to our members who make it possible for us to keep 01:09:39.480 --> 01:09:43.480 on going with a nice known amount and really are the foundation for the show. 01:09:43.680 --> 01:09:46.420 And then you can support each individual production with a boost. 01:09:48.220 --> 01:09:50.420 You found this one, this pick this week, right? 01:09:51.180 --> 01:09:53.620 Yeah. Enter SOMO. 01:09:53.760 --> 01:09:54.400 Oh, okay. 01:09:54.560 --> 01:09:59.380 A human friendly alternative to Netstat for socket and port monitoring on Linux. 01:09:59.380 --> 01:10:04.200 pleasing to the eye thanks to a nice table view filterable interactive killing 01:10:04.200 --> 01:10:13.740 of processes also instead of having to do netstat netstat dash t-u-l-p-n you can just do somo dash l. 01:10:13.740 --> 01:10:17.460 I have to say you got me with this one because it's always really handy to be 01:10:17.460 --> 01:10:21.200 like what app is listening on what port what ports do I even have open who's 01:10:21.200 --> 01:10:24.380 using it is anything listening is there a connection established this gives 01:10:24.380 --> 01:10:25.880 it all to you in a TUI table. 01:10:26.460 --> 01:10:27.340 There you go. 01:10:27.340 --> 01:10:31.380 Fits in with the show and you didn't say it, but you probably guessed it. 01:10:31.560 --> 01:10:35.420 It is written in Rust and it is MIT licensed. 01:10:35.880 --> 01:10:37.520 So you can do with it as you will. 01:10:38.860 --> 01:10:42.800 Let us know how your TUI challenge went. Of course, if you have any future challenge 01:10:42.800 --> 01:10:45.200 suggestions as well, we'd love to hear that or any other feedback. 01:10:45.200 --> 01:10:48.540 You can boost it in or go to linuxunplugged.com contact. 01:10:49.100 --> 01:10:53.500 We also want to remind you that we have chapters and transcripts for every episode. 01:10:53.960 --> 01:10:57.320 Those are available. Some of it's available only in the podcasting Twitter app, 01:10:57.320 --> 01:11:01.140 Some of it, but some of it's also available in the regular One Auto apps as 01:11:01.140 --> 01:11:03.080 well. So just make sure you're checking your app for that. 01:11:03.900 --> 01:11:07.280 And then you can skip around or re-listen or look something up in the transcript. 01:11:07.320 --> 01:11:09.860 It's actually pretty handy, too, for trying to get, like, the name of something. 01:11:10.280 --> 01:11:11.720 So just want to remind you that we have that. 01:11:11.720 --> 01:11:13.540 Did Chris really say that? You can check. 01:11:13.740 --> 01:11:17.040 Uh-oh. Yeah, I suppose that's the downside right there. And, 01:11:17.100 --> 01:11:20.960 of course, we'd love it if you joined us live. It gives it a special vibe, as the kids say. 01:11:24.840 --> 01:11:28.160 Yeah, that's right. We do the show at 10 a.m. Pacific, 1 p.m. 01:11:28.440 --> 01:11:33.920 Eastern over at jblive.tv or jblive.fm in whatever IceCast stream client you want. 01:11:34.300 --> 01:11:38.060 Or pop in that mumble room and listen to a low latency opus stream. 01:11:38.440 --> 01:11:42.280 Details at jupiterbroadcasting.com slash mumble. Don't forget all the great 01:11:42.280 --> 01:11:46.240 apps we talked about linked at linuxunplugged.com slash 619. 01:11:46.560 --> 01:11:49.520 And then there's a bunch of great shows over at jupiterbroadcasting.com. 01:11:49.680 --> 01:11:53.060 Go check out the launch. Brent's been joining us recently. We've been telling some fun stories. 01:11:53.720 --> 01:11:57.320 Thank you so much for joining us on this week's episode of The Unplugged Program, 01:11:57.440 --> 01:12:02.180 and we'll see you right back here next Tuesday, as in Sunday!
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