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The Sunday Secret Sauce

Jun 29, 2025
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We're highlighting several stories and reviews that never made it into the show. From GrapheneOS trouble, Asahi updates, Framework's desktop reveal, Starlink's Linux magic, and more.

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Transcript

WEBVTT 00:00:11.615 --> 00:00:16.435 Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. 00:00:16.615 --> 00:00:17.255 My name is Wes. 00:00:17.435 --> 00:00:18.155 And my name is Brent. 00:00:18.335 --> 00:00:21.275 Hello, gentlemen. Well, coming up on the show, you've been asking, 00:00:21.555 --> 00:00:22.975 and this week we're delivering. 00:00:23.395 --> 00:00:26.735 While I'm off on a family summer road trip, we're going to sneak you some of 00:00:26.735 --> 00:00:28.555 the clips from the bootleg version of the show. 00:00:28.735 --> 00:00:32.715 The stuff we thought you'd never hear is going to get heard in this week's episode. 00:00:33.315 --> 00:00:36.355 So before I go any further, before we get into the dirty laundry, 00:00:36.855 --> 00:00:40.875 let me say time-appropriate greetings to our virtual lug. Hello, Mumble Room. 00:00:41.675 --> 00:00:44.655 Hey Chris, hey Russ, and hello Brent. How's it going? 00:00:45.095 --> 00:00:48.135 Hello there. Shout out to everybody up in the quiet listening too. 00:00:48.595 --> 00:00:51.195 And a big good morning to our friends at Tailscale. 00:00:52.015 --> 00:00:56.255 Tailscale.com slash unplugged. Head over there, get it for free on 100 devices 00:00:56.255 --> 00:00:58.035 and three users while you support the show. 00:00:58.155 --> 00:01:02.115 Because Tailscale is the easiest way to connect your devices and your services 00:01:02.115 --> 00:01:04.735 to each other wherever they are. Protected by... 00:01:04.735 --> 00:01:05.715 Oh, I got it. 00:01:05.955 --> 00:01:09.475 Yeah, it builds out a flat mesh network. Secure remote access to your production 00:01:09.475 --> 00:01:13.815 systems, your databases, your servers, your containers, regardless of the network they're on. 00:01:13.955 --> 00:01:17.015 Multiple different data centers, a container, a VM. 00:01:17.315 --> 00:01:20.115 I'm behind like super carrier grade NAT. 00:01:20.535 --> 00:01:24.515 If there was a carrier grade NAT that also has carrier grade NAT, that's what I'm behind. 00:01:24.675 --> 00:01:28.535 And Tailscale still works smooth as Tailscale butter. 00:01:28.655 --> 00:01:32.675 It's easy to deploy. You can get it set up in just minutes. It's a true zero 00:01:32.675 --> 00:01:37.395 trust system that every organization and user can use today and try it for free 00:01:37.395 --> 00:01:39.715 when you go to tailscale.com slash unplugged. 00:01:39.795 --> 00:01:45.275 It will make all other VPN solutions seem like something else because calling 00:01:45.275 --> 00:01:50.615 it a VPN is explaining about a fraction of tailscale's power. Just a fraction. 00:01:51.295 --> 00:01:54.335 Tailscale does so much more and you can figure it out for yourself for free 00:01:54.335 --> 00:01:58.755 when you go to tailscale.com slash unplugged. You get on 100 devices, three users. 00:01:59.175 --> 00:02:01.715 Try it out for yourself. Or if you're at a business, you know, 00:02:01.795 --> 00:02:04.035 there's thousands of companies out there in our audience and in the broader 00:02:04.035 --> 00:02:07.075 context, Instacart, Hugging Face, Duolingo, they've switched to Tailscale. 00:02:07.515 --> 00:02:10.095 Thousands of our listeners have switched to Tailscale. They love it. 00:02:10.155 --> 00:02:12.755 So you can try out an individual plan or a business plan for free. 00:02:12.935 --> 00:02:16.955 No credit card required at Tailscale.com slash unplugged. 00:02:19.164 --> 00:02:22.984 Now, just a disclaimer, if anything crazy happened this week and you're expecting 00:02:22.984 --> 00:02:25.304 to talk about it, this is a pre-recorded episode. 00:02:25.864 --> 00:02:29.784 So we may have missed the big news, but we'll be live again next week and we'll 00:02:29.784 --> 00:02:30.644 be sure to try to cover it. 00:02:31.244 --> 00:02:35.684 But this is an episode we have been cooking for a while. We're pretty proud 00:02:35.684 --> 00:02:37.784 of our bootleg version of the show around here. 00:02:38.044 --> 00:02:41.564 Sure, it's live, so it might not always sound as good as what our excellent 00:02:41.564 --> 00:02:44.604 editor Drew puts out. But we try to pack it full of content. 00:02:44.824 --> 00:02:49.244 All the extra stuff and all the extra mistakes. Sometimes a full extra show. 00:02:49.524 --> 00:02:50.564 That's definitely true. 00:02:52.084 --> 00:02:55.404 So this is sort of like Chef Chris's bootleg jambalaya? 00:02:55.524 --> 00:02:59.304 I guess so. I guess you could call it that. And this week, we're just going 00:02:59.304 --> 00:03:00.324 to share some of it with you. 00:03:00.424 --> 00:03:02.804 We've put together a collection. I wouldn't say it's a best of or anything like 00:03:02.804 --> 00:03:06.284 that. I think it's just topics you might find interesting that if we had the 00:03:06.284 --> 00:03:07.604 time, we probably would have put in the show. 00:03:08.124 --> 00:03:12.044 So if you like the sample this week, we do have a coupon code to take 15% off 00:03:12.044 --> 00:03:16.224 your Unplugged Core contributor membership or your Jupyter.party membership. 00:03:16.224 --> 00:03:20.984 Just use the promo code bootleg at linuxunplugged.com slash membership, 00:03:21.004 --> 00:03:26.164 or when you're at jupiter.party, promo code bootleg, and you'll take 15% off indefinitely. 00:03:26.464 --> 00:03:29.784 And then as a member, you get access to the bootleg, which is released early 00:03:29.784 --> 00:03:33.384 before the show. You also have access to an ad-free edited version of the show. 00:03:33.804 --> 00:03:36.824 And, of course, you support the show directly. So let's get started, 00:03:36.904 --> 00:03:38.224 boys. Let's see what we have, right? 00:03:38.604 --> 00:03:44.764 And this first one was, I think, a story we started noticing about 21 weeks 00:03:44.764 --> 00:03:48.984 ago. It was the first signs that we might be seeing trouble within the Graphene OS project. 00:03:54.024 --> 00:03:56.984 Should we talk about this pixel thing that we've been talking about behind the 00:03:56.984 --> 00:03:58.904 scenes? Is that worth bringing up, you guys? 00:03:59.624 --> 00:04:02.864 I got a few links here. You did. I mean, maybe just because you put the work 00:04:02.864 --> 00:04:05.264 in to make a segment. Okay. 00:04:07.324 --> 00:04:09.764 All right. So this is a little bit. Let's just not get too negative. 00:04:09.884 --> 00:04:13.304 That's the goal. Yeah. I mean, I know, and I can feel in my heart that I'm very 00:04:13.304 --> 00:04:14.864 sad about this, and I want to be negative. 00:04:15.624 --> 00:04:20.304 Careful. But, you know, the extreme headline is I'm a little concerned about 00:04:20.304 --> 00:04:22.444 the future of my Pixel lifestyle. 00:04:22.564 --> 00:04:26.164 I've been really enjoying the Pixel 7 and drafting OS. It's been working really well. 00:04:28.024 --> 00:04:31.784 But we have two, I think, headwinds that are worth putting out there. 00:04:31.884 --> 00:04:38.504 Google has announced a round two of voluntary exits for employees in the platform 00:04:38.504 --> 00:04:44.164 and devices group, which includes people in the Pixel hardware and Android operating system group. 00:04:44.164 --> 00:04:48.064 This is the second round so there's just that I don't know what that signals 00:04:48.064 --> 00:04:49.864 but it's just noteworthy it could be redundancy, 00:04:50.404 --> 00:04:55.464 yeah well I guess last year they merged Pixel team and Android team so you might 00:04:55.464 --> 00:04:58.844 have some I don't know reallocation of folks who just wanted to work on hardware 00:04:58.844 --> 00:05:00.924 just software now have cross duties or something, 00:05:01.804 --> 00:05:07.384 yeah I uh it's just Pixel is just on the verge of competitive right now and 00:05:07.384 --> 00:05:11.624 so I'm just worried anything that reduces its competitive edge I uh, 00:05:13.247 --> 00:05:18.367 The iPhone 13 and 14 are still better than the Pixel 7, right? 00:05:18.647 --> 00:05:20.987 And then they just, now they have, what are they on, the 15 or 16? I don't know. 00:05:21.287 --> 00:05:24.807 Anyways, but I think that's just like in the background. 00:05:25.027 --> 00:05:32.367 The broader concern that I have is the seemingly wider and wider use of the Play Integrity API. 00:05:33.187 --> 00:05:37.727 And Graphene OS does have an OS release coming that tries to enable Google's 00:05:37.727 --> 00:05:39.867 credential service via a sandbox Google Play, 00:05:40.507 --> 00:05:43.587 to make sign-in with Google at least work because sign-in with Google started 00:05:43.587 --> 00:05:48.327 breaking on Graphene OS devices because a subset of apps require it now to work in a certain way. 00:05:50.467 --> 00:05:53.447 But I think the bigger problem is we've heard about the Revolt app, 00:05:53.967 --> 00:05:57.407 WhatsApp, you saw this app, you saw it with DoorDash, Wes. 00:05:58.367 --> 00:06:02.767 Yeah, I think Lyft as well this morning. So far nothing's not worked for me. 00:06:02.947 --> 00:06:05.947 I know Revolut isn't working I think, but... And the warning is that, hey. 00:06:06.407 --> 00:06:09.247 There's like a Play Integrity API issue here yeah so in 00:06:09.247 --> 00:06:12.027 the one of the latest releases now it'll you could turn this off 00:06:12.027 --> 00:06:14.727 but it will ping you with a little notification that says hey by 00:06:14.727 --> 00:06:18.367 the way this app use the play integrity services so 00:06:18.367 --> 00:06:21.327 you can get notifications or you can even block it from having access to 00:06:21.327 --> 00:06:25.027 it so so far i did i did try that with doordash and it 00:06:25.027 --> 00:06:28.187 didn't complain about having a block so it's clearly not and using 00:06:28.187 --> 00:06:30.987 it in any strict way but you have had 00:06:30.987 --> 00:06:33.847 this problem in a more strict way with the cash 00:06:33.847 --> 00:06:36.707 yeah yeah this is something we've seen 00:06:36.707 --> 00:06:39.547 it's not new it just may 00:06:39.547 --> 00:06:42.487 be getting worse well and if you look uh the 00:06:42.487 --> 00:06:45.947 graphene folks do a good job of this but revoluted in 00:06:45.947 --> 00:06:51.087 particular you know it's like you could understand back in the day and like 00:06:51.087 --> 00:06:55.147 oh yeah okay you clearly have a rooted phone that means yeah you shouldn't trust 00:06:55.147 --> 00:06:58.427 the client anyway for whatever reason but you could almost understand the logic 00:06:58.427 --> 00:07:02.567 right but like this is an unrooted phone that specifically takes steps to enable 00:07:02.567 --> 00:07:05.087 as much or more of the security that SOC does. 00:07:05.247 --> 00:07:08.447 And then, as Graffin points out, it's clearly not a real security commitment 00:07:08.447 --> 00:07:12.627 because it's not like they're stopping known insecure, unupdated Android versions, right? 00:07:12.667 --> 00:07:15.947 They're just, you didn't fall into the default implementation of this policy 00:07:15.947 --> 00:07:19.087 that we wanted to have as a checkbox and sorry. 00:07:19.487 --> 00:07:25.667 Right, and Graffin OS writes on X, Google Play completely works on Graffin OS 00:07:25.667 --> 00:07:30.327 from a technical perspective. It's banning using Graffin OS with the Play Integrity API. 00:07:30.567 --> 00:07:34.767 The same applies to some other banking and financial apps, there isn't a way 00:07:34.767 --> 00:07:38.747 for us to deal with this which won't be easy for them to block from working. 00:07:40.447 --> 00:07:41.867 So there's not a lot they can do. 00:07:45.527 --> 00:07:50.387 But isn't that exactly what google wants man this is i mean for me it's this is like a, 00:07:51.627 --> 00:07:55.147 like the whole family uses the cash app and the reason why i got the whole family 00:07:55.147 --> 00:08:00.407 on the cash app is because i needed to get them off of apple pay right and then if it stopped working, 00:08:01.307 --> 00:08:07.927 there's no saving face i just have i would have to use stock android or an iphone right, 00:08:11.227 --> 00:08:13.807 it's also where i i worry about and i 00:08:13.807 --> 00:08:16.907 think cash app it's made harder by this like a lot of their competing services 00:08:16.907 --> 00:08:21.247 at least these days i know venmo for instance has a web platform yeah cash app 00:08:21.247 --> 00:08:25.847 doesn't right and i know there are still some plenty of apps that i see i'm 00:08:25.847 --> 00:08:29.447 even calling them apps plenty of services that that's the they assume that's 00:08:29.447 --> 00:08:32.807 how you're going to interface with them yeah and i have not really ever gone 00:08:32.807 --> 00:08:36.847 down like the you know run way droid or whatever you know, 00:08:36.907 --> 00:08:40.547 to like have a backup of Android to do those kinds of things, I don't really want to. 00:08:40.787 --> 00:08:45.587 But also, I don't know, Brent, doesn't this feel like a move by Google to kind 00:08:45.587 --> 00:08:48.047 of just tighten down the controls a bit? 00:08:48.227 --> 00:08:52.507 Because they could change this to work in a way where Graphene OS was allowed. 00:08:52.687 --> 00:08:54.227 Graphene OS can technically be allowed. 00:08:54.767 --> 00:08:59.067 They're essentially doing the web version of checking for your browser agent 00:08:59.067 --> 00:09:00.667 and then telling you the web page doesn't work. 00:09:01.827 --> 00:09:04.567 Well, I don't think Google really has any incentive to make this work. 00:09:06.248 --> 00:09:10.228 Or to keep it working, or to support it? Well, they would if they understood 00:09:10.228 --> 00:09:14.168 that it was keeping some amount of users interested in Pixels, I think. Right. 00:09:14.288 --> 00:09:15.868 This is what's keeping us buying the Pixel hardware. I mean, 00:09:15.888 --> 00:09:18.308 that's one part, right? Their Android part maybe doesn't make it. 00:09:19.468 --> 00:09:23.948 And buying and using Android apps. Yeah, true. So we're all, 00:09:24.108 --> 00:09:25.328 do you have the Play Store installed? 00:09:26.388 --> 00:09:29.368 Reluctantly, yes. So we all three installed the Play Store. Only recently, 00:09:29.508 --> 00:09:30.328 like within the last month. 00:09:30.428 --> 00:09:35.288 I'm just saying, like, we are consuming Google hardware. We are using Google services. 00:09:35.688 --> 00:09:40.248 Yeah. And you know what else? If I didn't use my Pixel, I would cancel my Google Fi. 00:09:40.948 --> 00:09:45.048 Yeah, I probably would too. So there's multiple ways as a Graphene OS user, 00:09:45.228 --> 00:09:46.868 I am earning them ongoing revenue. 00:09:47.048 --> 00:09:49.648 There was also this whole thing, right? Where, I mean, this may not be, 00:09:49.868 --> 00:09:51.888 are there any of the same execs left? Who knows? 00:09:52.028 --> 00:09:55.548 But like, they sort of made a push with Android for all of the faults and all 00:09:55.548 --> 00:09:58.648 the stuff that they've now just put under the Play API instead of being an Android. 00:09:59.108 --> 00:10:03.148 They did specifically intentionally launch a platform that lets you install 00:10:03.148 --> 00:10:04.168 other firmware on phones. 00:10:04.168 --> 00:10:06.868 I do wonder how much is google's obviously like the 00:10:06.868 --> 00:10:09.828 larger push and like making these apis and maybe even promoting developers 00:10:09.828 --> 00:10:12.748 using them but uh the graphing folks 00:10:12.748 --> 00:10:15.768 do point out that at least some of this at least for specific cases 00:10:15.768 --> 00:10:20.468 like revolute may have to do less with google and maybe even less with the individual 00:10:20.468 --> 00:10:23.928 app and more with like the layers of plumbing and third-party libraries in between 00:10:23.928 --> 00:10:28.048 where these are the things google's providing information and hooks and then 00:10:28.048 --> 00:10:32.428 it's these various sort of security policies or layers that are opting like 00:10:32.428 --> 00:10:35.348 in particular this Like Revolut is just implementing something. Yeah. 00:10:35.728 --> 00:10:40.268 Right. Like it would let you do it if you, it won't let you use it if you've 00:10:40.268 --> 00:10:44.008 relocked your firmware with a custom key. 00:10:44.108 --> 00:10:46.768 But if you just don't lock your firmware at all, that's not a problem for it. 00:10:46.828 --> 00:10:48.368 So like it doesn't really make sense. Oh. 00:10:48.588 --> 00:10:52.748 And it doesn't really seem like if it was actual intentionality from the people 00:10:52.748 --> 00:10:56.268 looking out of these options in like a fully configured way that you would do that. 00:10:57.386 --> 00:11:00.386 But if it's something that you inherited through the various API layers and 00:11:00.386 --> 00:11:02.766 things that you're building on top of, it's a little more difficult. 00:11:02.986 --> 00:11:05.506 Or you didn't even have the choice necessarily. Which is the way it usually 00:11:05.506 --> 00:11:06.406 works in corporate development. 00:11:07.286 --> 00:11:13.106 Huh. That's doubly bad. Actually, that's worse. I don't know where this goes. 00:11:13.566 --> 00:11:16.006 Other than we're just going to keep an eye on it. Right. I mean, 00:11:16.046 --> 00:11:18.706 unfortunately, it feels like that's... 00:11:19.246 --> 00:11:24.466 By picking a niche where we try to put ideals into it, you always get to suffer. 00:11:24.766 --> 00:11:26.086 Would you go to Lineage OS? 00:11:26.506 --> 00:11:32.006 I'd try it. i've been there i mean i moved from lineage to graphene and it had 00:11:32.006 --> 00:11:36.526 some great features to it sure but uh i think the selling point of graphene 00:11:36.526 --> 00:11:42.766 is much much stronger yeah i agree i i think because of the weight of the family 00:11:42.766 --> 00:11:45.426 pole i think i would go back to iphone if it makes sense yeah. 00:11:46.286 --> 00:11:50.746 But tied to next so well and you are already right you there are macs in your 00:11:50.746 --> 00:11:54.666 life you have the watch like you already know and like and know how to manipulate 00:11:54.666 --> 00:11:58.126 that ecosystem yeah yeah yeah Well, the whole family is on iMessage. Right. 00:11:58.386 --> 00:12:00.626 Versus like I would have to, if I was going to do that, I would just have the 00:12:00.626 --> 00:12:02.066 one and then I would start buying more. 00:12:02.446 --> 00:12:06.086 Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the calculation they're probably making here is like the 00:12:06.086 --> 00:12:11.166 pixels weren't necessarily meant for only us, right? 00:12:11.186 --> 00:12:14.606 They wanted them to sell big time. I know. I'm using it more like a Nexus. 00:12:15.346 --> 00:12:20.526 Yeah. Yeah. Exactly the same. So they need major numbers to make this work out. 00:12:20.646 --> 00:12:23.886 And I'm not convinced our little niche is enough, unfortunately. 00:12:24.406 --> 00:12:32.666 Yeah, I agree. I just don't understand why not support Graphene OS, 00:12:32.666 --> 00:12:37.246 because there is a growing market of these hardened phones, 00:12:37.426 --> 00:12:39.886 and there is a growing market of privacy, 00:12:40.106 --> 00:12:43.106 and there is sort of this like... 00:12:44.143 --> 00:12:47.903 We can do something iPhone can't aspect of it. It's almost worth just keeping 00:12:47.903 --> 00:12:49.383 alive for that. I don't know. 00:12:49.563 --> 00:12:53.023 But then aren't they admitting that their version of Android isn't the most hardened? 00:12:53.643 --> 00:12:56.323 Maybe. Would you go back to stock? Would you ever go back to stock? 00:12:57.123 --> 00:13:00.783 Only if I was forced. Before you went to iPhone, you'd go to stock? 00:13:03.823 --> 00:13:07.343 Honestly, I trust the stock iOS more than I trust stock Android. Jeez. 00:13:07.823 --> 00:13:10.783 Yeah, I think I would change how I use my phone. Okay. You know what I mean? 00:13:10.963 --> 00:13:13.883 Yeah. Like I would probably go stock just because I could use the same device. 00:13:14.143 --> 00:13:16.863 And then i would see how much i hated it like there are things that 00:13:16.863 --> 00:13:19.823 i liked right like i don't love google assistant but it works okay yeah 00:13:19.823 --> 00:13:22.943 uh having i don't i did specifically reinstall 00:13:22.943 --> 00:13:26.503 the google app partially to play with their new ai story 00:13:26.503 --> 00:13:29.403 summary but also their feed is pretty decent for finding stuff 00:13:29.403 --> 00:13:32.083 for the show sometimes so like having that back on the side 00:13:32.083 --> 00:13:34.803 of the thing wouldn't be the worst i don't like the i don't think it's 00:13:34.803 --> 00:13:37.463 there now even oh is it not i don't think so i might actually do a 00:13:37.463 --> 00:13:40.263 linux phone oh yeah i 00:13:40.263 --> 00:13:43.283 could see you doing that yeah i choose suffering usually yeah 00:13:43.283 --> 00:13:50.143 yeah but then because it's like if if it was like stock android or apple i think 00:13:50.143 --> 00:13:54.043 actually i would take the third option linux phone yeah and it would be rough 00:13:54.043 --> 00:13:59.063 i yeah you guys are gonna have to support me we could just get you a mi-fi and 00:13:59.063 --> 00:14:00.923 like a smaller think pad right, 00:14:01.923 --> 00:14:08.643 leg strapped i'd like it strapped to my leg please um yeah just because i think 00:14:08.643 --> 00:14:14.163 we're with graphene in a really nice place where we can trust the software a 00:14:14.163 --> 00:14:15.383 little bit more at least I feel 00:14:15.383 --> 00:14:20.663 like I can and have the control to install pretty much whatever you want. 00:14:22.283 --> 00:14:27.823 And yet also at least up to this point fit into the normie apps and get those 00:14:27.823 --> 00:14:30.603 working in a way that feels okay, 00:14:31.703 --> 00:14:37.223 right but if that goes away then you know that golden age is gone I'm not sure 00:14:37.223 --> 00:14:38.343 it would ever come back really. 00:14:40.605 --> 00:14:44.505 Now, just last week, 19 weeks later in the bootleg, we had a whole other long 00:14:44.505 --> 00:14:48.425 discussion about GrapheneOS as they revealed more challenges about getting the 00:14:48.425 --> 00:14:49.965 OS3 driver images and whatnot. 00:14:50.925 --> 00:14:53.625 Seems like they're in a tough spot right now, and they're hoping to eventually 00:14:53.625 --> 00:14:59.065 find a third-party equipment manufacturer that'll just work with them and make a GrapheneOS phone. 00:14:59.465 --> 00:15:03.505 Alas, the bad news doesn't really stop there. Another project we got some troublesome 00:15:03.505 --> 00:15:07.385 vibes from this year was our dear Asahi Linux. 00:15:12.265 --> 00:15:16.725 Hector Martin has resigned as a maintainer to the Linux kernel after discussions 00:15:16.725 --> 00:15:19.585 on the Linux kernel mailing list got pretty heated. 00:15:20.145 --> 00:15:23.825 The discussion seems to have started after a series of patches related to adding 00:15:23.825 --> 00:15:28.165 DMA Coherence Allocator, which is an abstraction layer for Rust, to the Linux kernel. 00:15:28.405 --> 00:15:32.025 This led to a larger conversation about community influence and, 00:15:32.065 --> 00:15:36.665 of course, the development process around the Linux kernel and getting these things in there. 00:15:37.305 --> 00:15:41.165 Of particular point of contention, brought up by several kernel developers, 00:15:41.425 --> 00:15:44.745 including eventually Linus Torvalds himself, is that Hector Martin, 00:15:44.865 --> 00:15:48.365 the primary developer of Asahi Linux, used social media to voice his concerns 00:15:48.365 --> 00:15:51.385 and try to influence the situation on multiple occasions. 00:15:51.865 --> 00:15:55.165 This approach was criticized by Linus Torvalds, who stated that social media 00:15:55.165 --> 00:15:58.585 is not a solution for kernel development issues, and that social media brigading 00:15:58.585 --> 00:16:02.325 made him not want to have anything to do with Hector Martin's approach. 00:16:03.085 --> 00:16:06.165 Dave Arlisle also stated the community does not need grandstanding, 00:16:06.285 --> 00:16:09.385 brigading, or, quote, streamer drama creation. 00:16:10.445 --> 00:16:14.945 Ouch. Yeah, and so I was telling Brent, 00:16:15.125 --> 00:16:20.025 like, this is where I would love some sort of maybe LLM-powered tool where we 00:16:20.025 --> 00:16:25.565 could go back across the members' pre-show and play each time. 00:16:25.565 --> 00:16:29.185 We've gently brought up the fact that Hector seems to be kind of starting fights 00:16:29.185 --> 00:16:31.905 with kernel maintainers on social media, and I don't think this is going to 00:16:31.905 --> 00:16:37.045 go well, because I think we've done it probably three or four times over the years. 00:16:37.925 --> 00:16:42.265 And I'm kind of almost surprised it took this long for it really to blow up. 00:16:42.705 --> 00:16:46.425 And it's unfortunate. And so Hector's position is this is sort of a tool in 00:16:46.425 --> 00:16:50.045 order to bring attention to an issue that we have had very little progress on. 00:16:50.605 --> 00:16:54.845 And the kernel team's position is that it's not really improving the process. 00:16:54.845 --> 00:16:59.005 It's not affecting change, but it is creating drama and strife. 00:16:59.365 --> 00:17:02.825 Right. And it's not just, I mean, you know, it's not like a ban on talking about 00:17:02.825 --> 00:17:04.285 Colonel things on social media. 00:17:04.525 --> 00:17:08.245 A lot of this is the, Hector is, I think, justifiably to some extent, 00:17:08.505 --> 00:17:14.905 upset about the lack of progress and the fights around Rust and the Colonel. But... 00:17:15.801 --> 00:17:20.361 When you have a big platform, you get a lot of people who aren't related to 00:17:20.361 --> 00:17:26.081 the kernel discussion now hearing and seeing Hector's side and commenting in 00:17:26.081 --> 00:17:29.741 and starting a whole discussion. It's really quite separate from what was happening in the kernel. 00:17:29.901 --> 00:17:33.361 And it strikes me, I was just thinking, we've talked about some of the strife 00:17:33.361 --> 00:17:36.301 between Kent Overstreet and the BcacheFS developer and the kernel. 00:17:37.481 --> 00:17:41.621 So when he had the Code of Contact stuff, that was fighting about, 00:17:41.941 --> 00:17:44.001 he wanted changes to the VFS layer. 00:17:44.121 --> 00:17:48.241 Yeah. Because he noticed that there was a functionality in that that could cause 00:17:48.241 --> 00:17:50.361 problems for advanced file systems like bcachefs. 00:17:50.681 --> 00:17:53.381 I'd like to learn more about if Butter was affected. I haven't looked into it. 00:17:53.541 --> 00:17:55.801 Good question. But he was arguing like this will cause bugs. 00:17:55.941 --> 00:18:00.201 If we don't fix it, future file systems could have used this the wrong way and run into these issues. 00:18:00.281 --> 00:18:04.321 So it was like a correctness and data loss thing that affected his project that he was working on. 00:18:04.801 --> 00:18:09.321 And obviously, Hector has a lot of reason to care very much about Rust for Linux. 00:18:09.561 --> 00:18:14.061 But maybe he wanted this particular DMA abstraction or would eventually need it. 00:18:14.061 --> 00:18:17.121 I don't know but like he was not otherwise involved in 00:18:17.121 --> 00:18:19.841 this thread thank you for i did not make that clear thank you yeah 00:18:19.841 --> 00:18:22.801 it wasn't hector's rust patches right and so 00:18:22.801 --> 00:18:26.161 it's sort of like i get being frustrated but you instead of 00:18:26.161 --> 00:18:28.841 sort of letting that thread continue to play out and you know 00:18:28.841 --> 00:18:32.201 maybe let let the people involved kind of push and be like yeah for clarity 00:18:32.201 --> 00:18:35.441 which was slowly happening again maybe not as fast as any of us want right but 00:18:35.441 --> 00:18:38.261 there was some you know greg chimed in at one point and there was some back 00:18:38.261 --> 00:18:43.221 and forth and then the whole thing now linus is expending his energy not trying 00:18:43.221 --> 00:18:46.161 to set tone about Rust, he's fighting with Hector. 00:18:46.381 --> 00:18:50.841 Right, and I think one of the things that kind of pushed this into sort of the boiling point was. 00:18:51.861 --> 00:18:57.801 Hector deleted the post on Mastodon but he started he claims to be kidding in 00:18:57.801 --> 00:19:00.461 retrospect, but I don't actually know if that's true or not in my opinion, 00:19:00.481 --> 00:19:04.601 but he wanted to create a kernel contributor hall of shame, 00:19:05.521 --> 00:19:08.281 for all of the maintainers and contributors that they have problem with, 00:19:08.301 --> 00:19:11.201 that they could then publicly shame on this list and I 00:19:11.201 --> 00:19:18.361 think that's kind of what pushed this over and yeah it's it stinks because there 00:19:18.361 --> 00:19:22.861 is probably truth that you have somewhat I guess what you could call rogue maintainers 00:19:22.861 --> 00:19:26.321 who are not necessarily accountable to actually deliver on something that part 00:19:26.321 --> 00:19:29.901 of the other kernel team is committed to and so they can slow things down, 00:19:32.814 --> 00:19:35.774 It's interesting, though, to see, depending on the information you know about 00:19:35.774 --> 00:19:38.094 this and the background you know about the people involved, it's interesting 00:19:38.094 --> 00:19:39.194 to see different interpretations. 00:19:40.634 --> 00:19:46.854 Some people are saying this as Hector is fighting a good fight here, 00:19:47.434 --> 00:19:52.454 and some people see it as social media and streamer drama getting drawn into 00:19:52.454 --> 00:19:53.874 the kernel development process. 00:19:55.054 --> 00:19:58.394 And the mailing list is pretty exciting. I read through the whole thing. 00:19:58.634 --> 00:20:02.094 I mean, Hector really goes after everything, from how the kernel developers 00:20:02.094 --> 00:20:05.654 make their money to the tools they use to the fact that they have to use email. 00:20:05.814 --> 00:20:08.834 He really goes after everything about developing the kernel. 00:20:09.334 --> 00:20:13.914 And you can see why Linus came back with it seems like our process works at 00:20:13.914 --> 00:20:15.114 least okay kind of comment. 00:20:16.554 --> 00:20:20.354 I think it's fair to question is it working okay in the case of Rust for Linux? 00:20:21.454 --> 00:20:24.854 But clearly they continue to ship kernels. We report on them. 00:20:24.994 --> 00:20:26.714 We keep upgrading. It's not like the kernel. 00:20:27.374 --> 00:20:30.594 There's questions about what do we do and how do we improve it and how do we 00:20:30.594 --> 00:20:32.474 get young people involved and maybe email's not helping. 00:20:32.994 --> 00:20:36.014 But yeah, when you have one post that lumps all these things together, 00:20:36.194 --> 00:20:39.634 again, now we're having a big giant fight that's not going to have any kind 00:20:39.634 --> 00:20:41.034 of local resolution here, right? 00:20:41.094 --> 00:20:44.774 Like, I do think, right, both with Kent and with Hector, there are things to 00:20:44.774 --> 00:20:48.114 bring up about, like, how do we make changes in the kernel? How do we balance, 00:20:48.314 --> 00:20:52.254 you know, moving fast and breaking things with the stability that the kernel needs? 00:20:52.994 --> 00:20:55.234 I do think the Rust thing is tricky, though, too, because, like, 00:20:55.354 --> 00:20:58.134 yes, there's a high-level intention of we were going to do Rust in the kernel. 00:20:59.094 --> 00:21:02.794 But and it's a lot more important for asahi you 00:21:02.794 --> 00:21:05.654 know they've chosen to use it and i think for very good reasons if they've as 00:21:05.654 --> 00:21:08.754 they've talked about the advantages but you know 00:21:08.754 --> 00:21:11.454 until we're at the point where it's really in and we're relying on it 00:21:11.454 --> 00:21:14.414 i can understand too from a lot of other maintainers who 00:21:14.414 --> 00:21:17.794 we all know have very busy and a lot of responsibility like it's 00:21:17.794 --> 00:21:21.074 not necessarily a priority right the priority is getting the next kernel release 00:21:21.074 --> 00:21:23.914 with the features that companies are expecting or users are 00:21:23.914 --> 00:21:26.694 expecting or the bug fixes that are needed and moving to rust 00:21:26.694 --> 00:21:29.434 is a goal but i can see why people 00:21:29.434 --> 00:21:32.654 are frustrated in the short term but i can also see from like a broader kernel perspective 00:21:32.654 --> 00:21:36.014 being like right we've never done this before yeah preempts took 00:21:36.014 --> 00:21:38.854 a decade nothing in production is actually using this right now so 00:21:38.854 --> 00:21:42.174 like what is the actual expectation for how fast it should move right and and 00:21:42.174 --> 00:21:45.394 then if you just narrow that's a great point just in rust in general in the 00:21:45.394 --> 00:21:48.954 kernel but then if you were to narrow it even further to asahi how many asahi 00:21:48.954 --> 00:21:53.774 linux users are there maybe under 500 000 maybe under 400 000 300 000 right 00:21:53.774 --> 00:21:58.514 maybe under 200 000 even so yeah Yeah, you're right, as far as kernel priorities go. 00:21:58.614 --> 00:22:01.554 It's on there, but it's not probably even in the top 10. Right. 00:22:03.574 --> 00:22:04.134 That's rough. 00:22:06.977 --> 00:22:12.357 That bootleg was from episode 601, but just a few weeks later in episode 609, 00:22:12.677 --> 00:22:14.657 we had another big Asahi update. 00:22:15.057 --> 00:22:19.217 It looks like M4 support for Asahi is going to come very slow. 00:22:19.477 --> 00:22:23.597 This is from a social media post from an Asahi developer, quote, 00:22:24.137 --> 00:22:27.137 Looks like M4 support for Asahi Linux is going to be rather painful. 00:22:27.597 --> 00:22:31.637 We're still focusing on upstreaming M1 and M2 support, but other people have 00:22:31.637 --> 00:22:35.157 been trying to bring up M1N1, their mini, bootloader on the M4, 00:22:35.157 --> 00:22:37.037 and it looks like a few things have changed. 00:22:37.457 --> 00:22:43.257 When configuring a macho boot object, we now get dropped into an environment 00:22:43.257 --> 00:22:48.737 where Apple's SPTM is running on GL2 and we're supposed to talk to it from EL2 00:22:48.737 --> 00:22:52.037 with an MMU already enabled to set up page tables. 00:22:52.437 --> 00:22:56.957 So this neither works now for Linux nor for running ZNU under our hypervisor, 00:22:57.217 --> 00:22:59.717 which was what they used to reverse engineer the new hardware. 00:23:00.157 --> 00:23:03.057 So their little trick for, well, not little, but their 00:23:03.057 --> 00:23:06.577 ingenious trick to reverse engineer the hardware is gone 00:23:06.577 --> 00:23:10.357 and they need to come up with a new way to figure that out m3 is 00:23:10.357 --> 00:23:14.897 looking pretty bad m4 is even further out well we always knew this was a possibility 00:23:14.897 --> 00:23:18.797 it's kind of part of how it works right i do think in my interview with hector 00:23:18.797 --> 00:23:21.517 martin and linux action news i specifically asked him about this and he was 00:23:21.517 --> 00:23:26.397 hopeful at the time that the platform changes would be iterative between m1 00:23:26.397 --> 00:23:29.797 m2 m3 m4 and that they would be minor changes for them to keep up with them. 00:23:30.617 --> 00:23:34.477 I don't think that's the case necessarily. I also don't think they're necessarily down and out. 00:23:35.947 --> 00:23:39.727 And when it comes to Linux, I still, it would be nice to have, 00:23:39.767 --> 00:23:44.287 you know, a MacBook where you could do a boot macOS and Asahi and under Linux, 00:23:44.447 --> 00:23:48.607 it was very capable and yada, yada, yada. Obviously, that's the ideal case, right? 00:23:48.807 --> 00:23:51.907 And it's pretty close on my M1. It's pretty close. 00:23:52.567 --> 00:23:54.527 Especially now that I have sound, you know, I'm pretty happy. 00:23:54.667 --> 00:23:58.407 Once Wi-Fi and sound and 3D started working. Then it feels like a laptop. Yeah. 00:23:59.207 --> 00:24:03.927 But I still think the ideal use case is a headless M1 Mac Mini or M2 Mac Mini 00:24:03.927 --> 00:24:06.727 or if they have an M2. But, you know, like that class of machine, 00:24:06.987 --> 00:24:09.467 something in the corner, low power, you're using as a home lab. 00:24:09.607 --> 00:24:13.227 And we always knew, right, one segment of use cases for this was going to be 00:24:13.227 --> 00:24:18.647 the used sort of aftermarket of like, well, M1s are still totally fine if you 00:24:18.647 --> 00:24:21.587 don't expect and need the latest and greatest. Yeah. 00:24:22.027 --> 00:24:27.547 And things are still rolling out. Like Linux 6.15 seems to be landing support for the touch bar. 00:24:28.087 --> 00:24:30.607 So even, I don't even know what Macs have touch bars, but yeah, 00:24:30.687 --> 00:24:33.187 the touch bar is going to be working in 6.15. 00:24:33.607 --> 00:24:37.267 I don't know. I like the idea of controlling apt from a touch bar for some reason. 00:24:37.527 --> 00:24:41.347 Yeah, or at least getting like a progress, a visual indicator of progress for 00:24:41.347 --> 00:24:43.967 packages. D-package telling you why your system is irreparably broken. 00:24:44.387 --> 00:24:45.647 But right there in your touch bar. 00:24:46.487 --> 00:24:50.367 I'd just like B-top there all the time. Yeah. Or a ping. 00:24:50.627 --> 00:24:53.387 You know, you could do a few things. I was just thinking ping immediately. 00:24:53.387 --> 00:24:56.367 That would be way more useful for us. A single line of journal output. 00:24:56.627 --> 00:25:01.747 Yeah. Linux users would have taken more. I think the Mac users were always very hard on the touch bar. 00:25:01.847 --> 00:25:03.607 I think Linux users could have had a few good ideas in there. 00:25:03.607 --> 00:25:05.447 Yeah right especially plasma 00:25:05.447 --> 00:25:08.467 desktop users that's another one of those things it's like it's not a bad idea 00:25:08.467 --> 00:25:11.587 but if you had some something even remotely like 00:25:11.587 --> 00:25:14.207 an open spec or any chance anyone else in 00:25:14.207 --> 00:25:16.987 the ecosystem would have adopted anything similar you know where they went wrong 00:25:16.987 --> 00:25:20.207 they shouldn't have got rid of the f keys maybe they fix that later on yeah 00:25:20.207 --> 00:25:24.327 but on the early models no f keys oh just chris you would do like a bitcoin 00:25:24.327 --> 00:25:28.327 ticker tape totally yeah you can have a little yeah oh smash that buy button 00:25:28.327 --> 00:25:32.587 right right on the touch bar oh that's dangerous oh that's so dangerous. 00:25:35.239 --> 00:25:40.059 But with that bad also comes the good, and it seems like the folks are feeling 00:25:40.059 --> 00:25:44.399 pretty good about Framework these days, and now they've got a desktop. 00:25:44.799 --> 00:25:47.119 Let's talk about this story, just because I think it's fascinating. 00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:53.379 The Framework folks have released a desktop machine. It is a compact 4.5 liter 00:25:53.379 --> 00:25:59.399 mini ITX system powered by AMD's Ryzen AI Max processor. Pre-orders are open now. 00:25:59.699 --> 00:26:03.039 Shipments are expected in early Q3 of 2025. 00:26:03.519 --> 00:26:08.779 Here's the details. The processor boasts up to 16 cores, not too bad, 00:26:09.179 --> 00:26:11.759 which go up to 5.1 gigahertz at boost. 00:26:11.999 --> 00:26:16.839 The Radeon 8060S is included for the graphics. It can go up to 128 gigabytes 00:26:16.839 --> 00:26:19.219 of unified memory. That's a key thing here. 00:26:19.379 --> 00:26:25.559 This is low-power DDR5X memory that is unified, which means it's baked in, it's built in. 00:26:25.859 --> 00:26:30.739 But the idea is this specifically is designed for AI workloads where unified 00:26:30.739 --> 00:26:33.039 memory does seem to make a difference. 00:26:33.719 --> 00:26:39.239 They're saying it's a modular desktop, but you can't really replace things like RAM or CPU. 00:26:39.779 --> 00:26:44.499 But it does actually have a couple of the module slots, at least on the front, 00:26:44.659 --> 00:26:48.859 for the accessories that you can use with the framework laptop today. 00:26:48.859 --> 00:26:53.419 So if you've already invested in some of those USB-C-based modules, 00:26:53.719 --> 00:26:56.699 you can actually slot them into the front of this thing. 00:26:57.299 --> 00:27:03.379 And it's tiny. It starts at $1,099 for 8-core version with 32 gigs of RAM. 00:27:03.579 --> 00:27:04.839 Now, you cannot upgrade that RAM. 00:27:05.279 --> 00:27:11.099 The top tier, with a Ryzen AI Max Plus 395 with 128 gigabytes of RAM, 00:27:11.319 --> 00:27:13.719 comes in around $2,000 US dollars. 00:27:14.219 --> 00:27:17.459 They say it makes local AI processing much more affordable than a traditional 00:27:17.459 --> 00:27:19.179 GPU-based system, which is true. 00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:22.659 You know, I mean, the video card alone would cost more than this. 00:27:23.019 --> 00:27:28.319 They call it a fully modular design with standard PC components and an expansion card system. 00:27:28.799 --> 00:27:33.139 And then it has swappable panels on the front, RGB options, and more. 00:27:33.419 --> 00:27:39.379 Windows 11, Ubuntu, Fedora, and gaming OS options like Bazite will be available. 00:27:39.999 --> 00:27:41.379 Interesting to see Bazite incorporated. 00:27:42.499 --> 00:27:48.339 What is your reaction, boys, to a framework desktop that you can't swap out the CPU or the RAM? 00:27:48.919 --> 00:27:53.759 If you want more memory, if you want a new CPU, you got to get an entire new MOBO. 00:27:55.148 --> 00:28:00.208 What do you think, Brent, as a framework user? I hesitate a little. 00:28:00.508 --> 00:28:02.488 I understand they're trying to hit a different market, perhaps. 00:28:02.828 --> 00:28:07.088 But this moves them away from their core principles that got them a bunch of attention. 00:28:07.388 --> 00:28:13.788 I mean, they had a lot of success with that original model of being super user-friendly, 00:28:13.948 --> 00:28:16.328 repairable, upgradable, etc., etc. 00:28:16.688 --> 00:28:19.608 So this feels like a departure. 00:28:20.188 --> 00:28:23.108 You know Brent, right? Maybe they're just not aiming at me. He wants to be able 00:28:23.108 --> 00:28:24.408 to trade it down immediately. 00:28:26.548 --> 00:28:30.208 I was hoping everybody forgot i did that because now i slightly regret it but, 00:28:31.208 --> 00:28:34.308 yeah i mean okay all right but does it make you feel better, 00:28:34.848 --> 00:28:39.068 if they do the thing they do with the laptops where every generation or two 00:28:39.068 --> 00:28:44.968 new mobo you can swap the mob well isn't that true every desktop that's where 00:28:44.968 --> 00:28:48.888 it doesn't feel that much worse to me because i don't i feel like yes you like 00:28:48.888 --> 00:28:54.048 you can swap cpus in desktops but depending on exactly the generation and the type. 00:28:54.328 --> 00:28:56.788 You probably have to swap RAM. You're probably going to need a different socket. 00:28:57.028 --> 00:28:58.188 Like there's going to be a lot of changes. 00:28:58.328 --> 00:29:00.988 And if you're reasonably happy with your build, you're probably going to run 00:29:00.988 --> 00:29:04.568 it until you're going to want to swap out a bunch of stuff anyway, or at least I tend to. 00:29:04.928 --> 00:29:08.288 Yeah, that is more my use case. Back in the day, I swapped components more, 00:29:08.728 --> 00:29:12.748 you know, or I'd pop more RAM in. I'd buy, I'd make sure I'd buy it with some open RAM slots. Right. 00:29:13.148 --> 00:29:15.968 You know, I'd do it maybe, you know, every other GPU generation, 00:29:16.228 --> 00:29:19.588 which is just totally unreasonable now. Yeah, every fifth one now. 00:29:20.728 --> 00:29:25.088 I mean, if you think about it from, You know, you want a system that does local AI work. 00:29:25.948 --> 00:29:29.848 That's the part I'm excited to see, right? Is like having more things that aren't. 00:29:29.848 --> 00:29:35.168 Just spend 5K on a NVIDIA card targeting this in a way that can be a little 00:29:35.168 --> 00:29:36.708 more competitive with what Apple's doing. 00:29:37.208 --> 00:29:40.788 It's slightly larger height wise than a banana. That's how small this thing is. 00:29:41.731 --> 00:29:46.531 Now, it's not super cheap, but also it's not unreasonable if you consider it's 00:29:46.531 --> 00:29:48.591 a pretty powerful GPU-CPU combo. 00:29:48.851 --> 00:29:56.331 Mine, as configured with a 2-terabyte NVMe and then a 1-terabyte for home storage, would be $1,926. 00:29:57.031 --> 00:30:00.151 If I was working at a shop where we were doing a bunch of this stuff for the 00:30:00.151 --> 00:30:03.671 day-to-day, you know, actual workload, I would for sure be pressuring my boss 00:30:03.671 --> 00:30:05.111 to buy me one of these for my next rig. 00:30:05.311 --> 00:30:08.591 Yeah, it'd be a good little desktop work machine. I could also see this being, 00:30:08.731 --> 00:30:12.271 assuming it's not too loud, and they let you pick quiet CPU fans, 00:30:12.451 --> 00:30:13.971 so, you know, there's a shot. 00:30:14.111 --> 00:30:18.171 Could be a good little OBS machine, production machine, Reaper machine. Oh, true, yeah. 00:30:18.531 --> 00:30:21.031 Again, where we just kind of set it and don't touch it for a long time. 00:30:21.211 --> 00:30:25.451 But I would be inclined to at least want to go with 64 gigs of RAM. 00:30:26.111 --> 00:30:31.471 So it's not super cheap either. So if you go with the base, 32 gigs of RAM, 00:30:31.591 --> 00:30:34.131 it's $500 to go to 64 gigs. 00:30:34.131 --> 00:30:38.151 And then if you want to go to 128 and you may want to max it out since you can 00:30:38.151 --> 00:30:42.511 never upgrade it again and if you are legitimately doing AI workloads you want 00:30:42.511 --> 00:30:48.951 to go to 128 gigs of RAM then you get the max plus 395 so you get a better CPU too but it's $900. 00:30:50.451 --> 00:30:55.331 And you're in batch 7 which ships in Q3 this is interesting they went small 00:30:55.331 --> 00:31:02.411 too I will be very very very closely watching the early reviews to see what people think, 00:31:03.451 --> 00:31:07.191 This gets me thinking about the Thaleo Mega that they came out with recently. 00:31:07.591 --> 00:31:10.391 It says right here, Thaleo Megas is the world's smallest, well, 00:31:10.431 --> 00:31:13.851 not anymore, and quietest workstation for deep learning and scientific computing. 00:31:15.191 --> 00:31:22.251 But that's like 6K USD. I mean, it's US manufactured and all that open source hardware stuff. 00:31:22.551 --> 00:31:24.851 I wonder if the performance difference, because, you know, that's going to be 00:31:24.851 --> 00:31:29.491 desktop hardware, right? Where this thing is a little bit closer to a laptop. 00:31:30.051 --> 00:31:34.871 I mean, it's, you know, a little bit more like, it's like an iMac without the screen, in a way. 00:31:35.011 --> 00:31:38.551 Or maybe like the Mac Studio, but, you know, the AMD side of it. 00:31:38.691 --> 00:31:41.311 Okay, so you're saying we take this thing, we put it in a backpack, 00:31:41.471 --> 00:31:44.391 we load it up with batteries, and this is Brent's new remote rig. Yeah, man. 00:31:45.591 --> 00:31:48.911 Way better than I have. That way it can do on-the-fly transcriptions of the interviewers. 00:31:51.593 --> 00:31:58.573 1Password.com slash unplugged. That's the number 1Password.com slash unplugged. 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That's 1Password.com slash 00:33:35.113 --> 00:33:36.873 unplugged, all lowercase. 00:33:37.093 --> 00:33:41.913 Check it out, learn more, and support the show at 1Password.com slash unplugged. 00:33:45.433 --> 00:33:51.053 Sometimes in the bootleg we even get into a new hardware we've managed to acquire and set up. 00:33:57.759 --> 00:34:00.559 You got yourself a dell thunderbolt dock for 00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:03.599 a great price is this a thunderbolt 3 it is 00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:06.479 yeah and i had the debate i was like should i buy something 00:34:06.479 --> 00:34:10.079 like shinier and new that would be you know if i let's say get a new framework 00:34:10.079 --> 00:34:14.499 amd version or something you know that would like really play super nice but 00:34:14.499 --> 00:34:18.339 i was like no i just want to pick up something used this is about current hardware 00:34:18.339 --> 00:34:22.779 enablement and if i'm buying a new framework i can just justify rolling in a 00:34:22.779 --> 00:34:25.639 new dock as part of that price. So why a Thunderbolt dock at all? 00:34:26.639 --> 00:34:30.399 I kind of rejiggered some of my office setup. 00:34:30.739 --> 00:34:33.419 This is going to be summer. I wanted something in my living room, 00:34:33.499 --> 00:34:38.399 which is a little more bright and airy of a space, and I haven't been using it as much as I could. 00:34:38.739 --> 00:34:42.659 And so I redid some monitors, and then I had a setup where I wanted to have 00:34:42.659 --> 00:34:44.759 the laptop and two monitors going. 00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:49.319 And by default, there is an HDMI port on this ThinkPad, and so it can power 00:34:49.319 --> 00:34:52.639 two, but it can't power all three. 00:34:52.959 --> 00:34:57.519 Right. Even with a USB-C adapter, but with Thunderbolt, you can. 00:34:57.779 --> 00:35:00.519 So I just wanted to pick up something I could have and then make it a little 00:35:00.519 --> 00:35:02.039 easier to dock and untuck. 00:35:02.219 --> 00:35:06.819 So with Thunderbolt 3 off that thing, you can run the internal screen and two 00:35:06.819 --> 00:35:08.399 external monitors simultaneously? 00:35:08.659 --> 00:35:10.379 Yep. And the video card keeps up? Yeah. 00:35:10.879 --> 00:35:15.019 Huh. That's nice. So far, I'm actually, because I need to get some DisplayPort 00:35:15.019 --> 00:35:20.539 cables, right now I have it set up so that it's using the HDMI port on the laptop 00:35:20.539 --> 00:35:23.759 itself for one of the screens, and then just one fed from the display board, 00:35:23.819 --> 00:35:25.479 but you can do it whatever way. It might be better. 00:35:25.939 --> 00:35:28.519 It's like, remind me of the generation of that video card, though. 00:35:28.619 --> 00:35:31.899 It's not great. No. I mean, that's why I'm surprised. I mean, 00:35:31.899 --> 00:35:33.539 I guess I'm not shocked. I know. Yeah. 00:35:34.879 --> 00:35:38.119 It's surprisingly been capable. I think so. I don't know. 00:35:39.059 --> 00:35:44.619 Amazing. Absolutely great. So, and did you have to go in on Plasma or I7? 00:35:46.179 --> 00:35:50.739 I7-8650. It's the CBO. Yeah. Oh, gosh. 00:35:51.659 --> 00:35:56.059 I know, right? Did you have to, like, authorize any security stuff for Thunderbolt 00:35:56.059 --> 00:35:57.099 or anything like that? No. 00:35:57.959 --> 00:36:01.159 Did you have to turn on anything in Nix? I didn't do a thing. 00:36:01.319 --> 00:36:04.899 I mean, I probably can. I've used Bolt CTL and D and stuff before, 00:36:04.959 --> 00:36:06.919 especially because there's a Thunderbolt doc here at the studio. 00:36:07.019 --> 00:36:08.199 I've used Thunderbolt at work, you know. 00:36:09.339 --> 00:36:12.179 But, no, I don't know if I enabled that in my Nix config. I actually haven't 00:36:12.179 --> 00:36:14.299 checked thoroughly, but it just plugged it in. Yeah. 00:36:15.039 --> 00:36:18.639 And Plasma is doing great with the monitors. Like, there's no issues with it 00:36:18.639 --> 00:36:22.459 being wonky with ordering or, like, some of them not waking up or anything it's 00:36:22.459 --> 00:36:25.099 all just been working do you remember which dell dock it is. 00:36:26.459 --> 00:36:29.999 W19 something because you could pick them up used for a great price and yeah 00:36:29.999 --> 00:36:34.139 some of these things are like 300 bucks originally i almost got the lenovo one 00:36:34.139 --> 00:36:37.499 that was sort of like paired with this which i could also get for like 60 to 00:36:37.499 --> 00:36:42.399 100 bucks used but and it probably turns out maybe it doesn't matter but, 00:36:43.286 --> 00:36:48.566 The internet was suggesting that one wasn't Flopty compatible, and the Dell one is. 00:36:48.946 --> 00:36:52.006 So the ports were a little better on the Lenovo, but I was like, 00:36:52.126 --> 00:36:55.766 you know, for under $100, like, yeah, Flopty just seems great. 00:36:55.886 --> 00:36:58.386 I'll probably be buying a second dock at some point anyway. 00:36:58.726 --> 00:37:03.086 Somewhere, somewhere, I think, in this tomb of old technology of a studio, 00:37:03.386 --> 00:37:08.766 I have a Lenovo dock that has an NVIDIA graphics card in it. 00:37:08.926 --> 00:37:13.046 So it's a Thunderbolt dock with an eGPU built into it. I remember you. 00:37:13.286 --> 00:37:16.966 Yeah. It was cool. Although the problem is, why would you want something like that? To game. 00:37:17.306 --> 00:37:22.946 And guess what happens? It overheats and significantly thermal throttles. So, yeah. 00:37:23.826 --> 00:37:27.506 But one of my favorite Thunderbolt docks I ever built was actually just an eGPU 00:37:27.506 --> 00:37:30.726 that had a bunch of other ports on it as well. Here we go. 00:37:32.866 --> 00:37:36.606 WD19TB. There you go. That's the dock. You told me 19S yesterday. 00:37:36.726 --> 00:37:40.426 I was looking at the wrong thing. Oh, man. Way to go. Jeez. 00:37:41.186 --> 00:37:46.646 Well, I don't know. You should let me take apart that dock with the GPU, 00:37:46.646 --> 00:37:48.446 see if I can make it not thermal tunnel. 00:37:48.666 --> 00:37:53.786 Yeah, if we can find it, I'll set it aside. I think that would be great, because it still works. 00:37:54.366 --> 00:37:57.146 And I think it's like a 10 series GTX. 00:37:57.746 --> 00:38:01.166 It's an old, old one, but you know, it might be fun to see if it works. 00:38:01.746 --> 00:38:05.526 Who knows? It can't hurt. Well, it can hurt, but... 00:38:06.706 --> 00:38:09.586 Wes, I sneaky heard you say that you're thinking of getting a framework. 00:38:10.266 --> 00:38:15.506 Oh, I don't know. I mean, at some point it'll be new laptop time and the framework 00:38:15.506 --> 00:38:19.266 is probably the number one contender pending something, you know, 00:38:19.686 --> 00:38:21.586 some other consideration at time of purchase. 00:38:21.866 --> 00:38:25.446 Yeah. So there's kind of always like a background framework that's not in the 00:38:25.446 --> 00:38:27.726 cart, but it's like in the cart before the cart. 00:38:27.906 --> 00:38:31.806 In the wishlist. Yeah. I'm always thinking like, what if my main machine died? What would I do? 00:38:32.006 --> 00:38:34.506 I'm always kind of toying with that idea. 00:38:35.589 --> 00:38:39.709 I think maybe a framework would be a big contender, or maybe the AI desktop. 00:38:40.269 --> 00:38:42.409 Yeah, that would be tempting, too. I don't know. 00:38:43.109 --> 00:38:47.249 I am just going to wait. Just going to wait and see what we get towards the 00:38:47.249 --> 00:38:49.509 end of the year, see what all the different vendors have. That's where I'm at, 00:38:49.589 --> 00:38:49.869 too. You've been waiting. 00:38:50.549 --> 00:38:54.109 You've been saying this for, like, at least a year now, Chris. Yeah, longer. 00:38:54.329 --> 00:38:59.329 Yeah, I know. But I'm still getting by. I've heard good things come to those who wait. 00:39:00.029 --> 00:39:04.409 Pretty much ever since you gave your Dev1 away. Yeah, that's true. 00:39:05.589 --> 00:39:08.689 Which was a couple years ago, I think. That was two years ago. I know. Yeah. 00:39:10.329 --> 00:39:13.389 It is what it is. You're getting close to the point where you've lost or given 00:39:13.389 --> 00:39:16.309 away more laptops than you've bought. I know. It's wild. 00:39:16.789 --> 00:39:20.129 It's wild. You know, the cost of things and whatnot for the last few years, 00:39:20.509 --> 00:39:23.989 I haven't really gotten, you know, like I'm on older phones and all this kind of stuff. 00:39:24.069 --> 00:39:29.409 And I realized I used to have this sort of trickle down cycle where different 00:39:29.409 --> 00:39:31.129 generations of devices would go to kids. 00:39:31.609 --> 00:39:35.369 But now now that i don't have any devices to pass down but they need device 00:39:35.369 --> 00:39:39.549 upgrades like wait so i'm not getting myself a device but i'm buying them new 00:39:39.549 --> 00:39:43.269 devices like what's going on here i've messed something up hand me down soon 00:39:43.269 --> 00:39:48.669 and that's what i realized i had established a natural rhythm and i should have just stuck with it. 00:39:48.669 --> 00:39:54.029 Actually a little bit of real-time follow-up number one i found that dock my 00:39:54.029 --> 00:39:57.469 thunderbolt dock with a video gpu nice work so setting that aside so we can 00:39:57.469 --> 00:40:00.569 work on its cooling later. And you solved your HDMI problem you were having. 00:40:00.769 --> 00:40:04.189 Yeah, now I'm fully DisplayPort. So it's one cable going great. 00:40:04.389 --> 00:40:08.489 Nice, Wes. Good job. Well, so hardware is definitely a topic that we'll cram 00:40:08.489 --> 00:40:10.149 into the bootleg from time to time. 00:40:10.209 --> 00:40:14.829 And I do have a soft spot for the fact that the Starlink network uses Linux. 00:40:15.089 --> 00:40:17.349 And so from time to time, I like to track that. 00:40:17.469 --> 00:40:22.129 This was sort of a neat discovery is somebody actually broke down a Starlink 00:40:22.129 --> 00:40:25.329 user terminal. So the dishy end is referred to the user terminal. 00:40:25.329 --> 00:40:28.949 And there's some really interesting tidbits in this. 00:40:29.249 --> 00:40:35.749 Number one, it's got a quad-core Cortex-A53 SoC that's been custom-built for Starlink. Oh, yeah. 00:40:36.516 --> 00:40:37.876 And they were able to extract the 00:40:37.876 --> 00:40:41.836 firmware directly from the eMMC chip in there. They had to desolder it. 00:40:42.116 --> 00:40:44.556 There's some unencrypted components like the boot chain, the kernel, 00:40:44.696 --> 00:40:46.296 and some parts of the file system. 00:40:46.596 --> 00:40:51.096 And then they set up sort of a basic QMU emulation environment to do the debugging 00:40:51.096 --> 00:40:54.056 to sort of get the system to try to cooperate. That's so cool. 00:40:54.296 --> 00:40:58.016 They have a, when the system boots, it has a runtime that unpacks into slash 00:40:58.016 --> 00:41:03.716 SX local slash runtime, which contains a statically linked C++ executable and 00:41:03.716 --> 00:41:06.316 Go-based software for user communication. All right. 00:41:06.516 --> 00:41:09.476 I thought this was interesting, and I want to know what you guys think of this. 00:41:09.936 --> 00:41:14.996 It seems that the system mainly relies on a C++-based program to bypass the 00:41:14.996 --> 00:41:16.616 kernel for handling network packets. 00:41:16.936 --> 00:41:20.976 The Linux kernel is mostly used just to provide basic hardware drivers and process 00:41:20.976 --> 00:41:25.616 management, and then user packets for communication on the network are handled 00:41:25.616 --> 00:41:27.336 by a user-space processor. That's cool. 00:41:27.716 --> 00:41:30.736 That's interesting. There's a lot of facilities built for that, 00:41:30.756 --> 00:41:34.916 because a lot of these, if you're trying to do Linux for your device, 00:41:34.916 --> 00:41:38.936 especially on the control plane, but then you like maybe the data plane, 00:41:39.296 --> 00:41:42.776 kernel stuff, because the kernel network stack is really flexible at the cost 00:41:42.776 --> 00:41:48.816 of not necessarily optimal performance for just doing basic network, moving packets around. 00:41:49.056 --> 00:41:54.456 So there's a bunch of hooks built in that let you, at various degrees of structure, 00:41:54.656 --> 00:41:57.796 things like EBVF, but there's networking specific things that let you hand off 00:41:57.796 --> 00:42:01.876 control to a user space so they can implement a faster stack that just makes 00:42:01.876 --> 00:42:03.856 fewer decisions or the custom decisions. 00:42:03.856 --> 00:42:08.276 Yeah, we've heard the tail scale guys talk about this a little bit. Yeah, yeah, true. 00:42:08.656 --> 00:42:13.996 It'd be very interesting to know what things, like, was it just performance? 00:42:14.316 --> 00:42:19.356 Or, you know, are there, like, particular, like, network manipulations or changes 00:42:19.356 --> 00:42:21.576 or issues they had with the kernel? 00:42:21.776 --> 00:42:25.436 Like, what motivated different pieces of implementing that? I'd be very curious to know. 00:42:25.996 --> 00:42:29.676 Yeah, I don't like to talk about this kind of stuff. Okay, so they, 00:42:29.836 --> 00:42:34.156 through this analysis, they thought they came across something a little freaky. Yeah. 00:42:34.776 --> 00:42:38.816 They found a program labeled Ethernet Data Recorder. Ooh. 00:42:39.776 --> 00:42:43.036 I mean, it just sounds like a backdoor. Yeah. Right? It just sounds like a backdoor. 00:42:43.396 --> 00:42:48.016 So based on other clues in the firmware, it seems that it's an application related 00:42:48.016 --> 00:42:49.896 to capturing satellite telemetry. 00:42:50.016 --> 00:42:53.976 All the traffic captured is also encrypted using the hardware keys that are fused into the SOC. 00:42:54.296 --> 00:42:58.336 It does not appear to collect any user privacy data. so it must be like for 00:42:58.336 --> 00:43:03.516 support getting diagnostics on the that would make sense yeah okay so this is 00:43:03.516 --> 00:43:08.596 also surprising not surprising in other words your ISP knows what you send on the internet. 00:43:09.428 --> 00:43:13.968 The core software includes the functionalities that seemingly would work for 00:43:13.968 --> 00:43:18.728 the satellites or the ground relays or obviously the user terminal. 00:43:19.108 --> 00:43:24.228 And then as the system boots, it figures out what it is based on the type of 00:43:24.228 --> 00:43:27.208 hardware that is on the system and the peripherals. Oh, fun. 00:43:27.368 --> 00:43:31.168 And then loads the corresponding logic, as they put it. That's crazy. 00:43:31.368 --> 00:43:35.108 Which you could almost wonder if there's a way somehow to get access to this 00:43:35.108 --> 00:43:38.548 thing, if you could make it think it's a satellite or a ground station. 00:43:38.548 --> 00:43:39.948 And then we can make like a bottle rocket. 00:43:40.428 --> 00:43:43.368 Yeah, Brent, that's right. Yes. I do think it's interesting, right? 00:43:43.488 --> 00:43:47.048 Even on the whole platform they control, they've gone this route of like, 00:43:47.148 --> 00:43:50.468 we build our own static world and we ship generic stuff that just sort of, 00:43:50.548 --> 00:43:52.428 I mean, totally reasonable. 00:43:52.888 --> 00:43:55.868 Here's the other thing. So once it identifies, okay, I'm a user terminal, 00:43:55.868 --> 00:44:03.408 I'm the dishy, it then initializes a script that writes 41 SSH keys into slash 00:44:03.408 --> 00:44:05.328 root.ssh authorized keys. 00:44:05.328 --> 00:44:09.668 And then it opens up port 22 to the satellite network, I guess. 00:44:09.948 --> 00:44:11.608 So who do you email to get your key added? 00:44:12.088 --> 00:44:15.988 Right, right. I mean, I wonder if that's like diagnostics. What would that be for? 00:44:16.208 --> 00:44:20.288 You know, because when you open up the app... Or is that like raw remote updates 00:44:20.288 --> 00:44:23.688 checked though? I don't know. Yeah. Yeah, diagnostics would make sensor support. 00:44:24.268 --> 00:44:25.288 It's a lot of keys though. It 00:44:25.288 --> 00:44:29.968 seems like that'd be one or two or three keys, not 22 keys, but 41 keys. 00:44:30.128 --> 00:44:33.348 But I would hate to think what it would actually be like on a Comcast router 00:44:33.348 --> 00:44:36.708 or modem or something like that. It could be, it could be that one, 00:44:36.768 --> 00:44:39.968 even if it was one key, it could be used by tens of thousands of people. So who knows? 00:44:40.108 --> 00:44:42.748 Maybe a good case for when you do the like certificate version or other, 00:44:42.888 --> 00:44:44.908 where you can issue, you know, like, Oh, we want to get access. 00:44:44.908 --> 00:44:49.588 So we signed a temporary key that'll work just for a day for your technician or whatever. 00:44:49.808 --> 00:44:52.028 We got pretty lucky on our road trip for internet. 00:44:52.428 --> 00:44:54.968 We didn't have any serious demands. And when we needed to do the show, 00:44:55.348 --> 00:44:56.448 PJ hooked us up with ethernet. 00:44:57.668 --> 00:45:01.828 He took that ethernet like out of his wall through the wall. 00:45:02.008 --> 00:45:05.628 Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Jeff. Like the things you do for us. 00:45:06.588 --> 00:45:10.908 Yeah. That was a lifesaver. I guess at some point he has to put it back in the wall. 00:45:11.048 --> 00:45:14.268 Can we just have PJ set up Ethernet everywhere we do a live show? 00:45:14.408 --> 00:45:16.008 He shows up a day or two ahead. 00:45:16.868 --> 00:45:21.208 I mean, we'll be there too to play support, obviously. Wouldn't that be nice? Yeah. 00:45:23.905 --> 00:45:27.465 Normally, we have the good sense to cut this next segment from the show, 00:45:27.465 --> 00:45:31.205 and we don't put it in there because, you know, Linux users having a laugh at 00:45:31.205 --> 00:45:32.645 Windows never looks great. 00:45:33.005 --> 00:45:36.205 But you're getting to hear the stuff we normally cut from the show this week. 00:45:36.345 --> 00:45:40.505 So Microsoft has warned millions of Windows users, don't update your PC. 00:45:40.985 --> 00:45:44.825 Kind of an unusual warning from Microsoft. They say, do not take any action 00:45:44.825 --> 00:45:47.225 in response to several recent update-related errors. 00:45:47.785 --> 00:45:52.565 Now, I guess the trouble began earlier this month with a Windows update that 00:45:52.565 --> 00:45:57.165 went out that caused mysterious empty folders like inetpub to appear and triggered 00:45:57.165 --> 00:45:58.585 persistent update errors. 00:45:58.805 --> 00:46:03.185 And even for some, the blue screen of death for some Windows 11 users. 00:46:03.605 --> 00:46:07.485 Microsoft clarified that the inetpub folder is linked to a security patch and 00:46:07.485 --> 00:46:10.105 should not be deleted despite looking unnecessary. 00:46:10.805 --> 00:46:14.725 And then the error code that people are getting is linked to a win RE update. 00:46:14.725 --> 00:46:17.665 Microsoft says updates typically succeed after a system restart, 00:46:17.805 --> 00:46:18.865 even if an error appears. 00:46:19.205 --> 00:46:22.765 Users are urged not to reattempt install or troubleshoot the error, 00:46:22.925 --> 00:46:24.385 as it should resolve itself. 00:46:24.845 --> 00:46:29.245 The blue screens of death for Windows 11 users, which are becoming more common 00:46:29.245 --> 00:46:32.765 when they're getting things like secure kernel error, Microsoft suggests users 00:46:32.765 --> 00:46:38.805 rely on its known issue rollback fix, which takes up to 24 hours to apply. 00:46:39.465 --> 00:46:44.405 What? Meanwhile, Windows Hello facial recognition was broken in the recent update for some users. 00:46:44.725 --> 00:46:49.765 Although Microsoft says it's just an edge case. And then Microsoft accidentally, 00:46:49.765 --> 00:46:54.265 around the same time, pushed a Windows 11 upgrade to ineligible Windows 10 PCs. 00:46:55.025 --> 00:46:58.105 So now they won't boot, but Microsoft is working on a fix. 00:46:58.805 --> 00:47:03.445 And all of this is happening as Windows 10 is reaching end of life on October 00:47:03.445 --> 00:47:06.085 14th, along with Office 2016 and 2019. 00:47:06.565 --> 00:47:09.305 These systems will not receive updates post-October. 00:47:10.285 --> 00:47:14.625 And, you know, that's going to be probably millions of Windows PCs. 00:47:14.725 --> 00:47:18.925 Running Linux and, or that could run Linux, but are running Windows 10 and old versions of Office. 00:47:19.525 --> 00:47:23.125 This is a lot of bad to hit at once. We don't normally talk about Windows stuff 00:47:23.125 --> 00:47:24.745 in the show, obviously, but. 00:47:26.033 --> 00:47:29.873 This is a lot. We have the Windows 11 blue screens of death, 00:47:30.093 --> 00:47:35.073 Windows Hello being broken, that weird inetpub folder, which if you delete causes 00:47:35.073 --> 00:47:40.673 problems, which as far as I know is related to IIS, but maybe something different in this case. 00:47:40.973 --> 00:47:43.773 There is an update error that's giving you an error message, 00:47:43.893 --> 00:47:47.053 but you're supposed to just ignore it and wait for it to fix itself. 00:47:47.253 --> 00:47:49.993 And if you really bork things, you can use the rollback kit, 00:47:50.693 --> 00:47:52.873 but it could take 24 hours to apply the fix. 00:47:54.253 --> 00:47:57.153 That's just embarrassing. bad embarrassing how can 00:47:57.153 --> 00:48:00.293 they be okay with that is it because it affects 00:48:00.293 --> 00:48:04.533 such a small percentage of their users that it doesn't like 00:48:04.533 --> 00:48:07.833 affect their bottom line or something like what what's going on maybe they're 00:48:07.833 --> 00:48:11.833 i know because even when you're talking a small percentage you're still talking 00:48:11.833 --> 00:48:16.973 hundreds of thousands if not millions of users right fair but like they took 00:48:16.973 --> 00:48:22.653 down the world uh six seven months ago right well yeah they still have all these 00:48:22.653 --> 00:48:26.853 customers and stuff so So are they feeling invincible and they just, 00:48:26.973 --> 00:48:29.613 you know, they don't have to care? I don't know, man. 00:48:32.333 --> 00:48:35.513 Unraid.net slash unplugged. Go over there, support the show, 00:48:35.653 --> 00:48:38.273 and check out Unraid. Unleash your hardware. 00:48:38.593 --> 00:48:42.633 Unraid's a powerful, easy-to-use NAS operating system built on top of modern 00:48:42.633 --> 00:48:46.493 Linux with a modern kernel in there that gives you control, flexibility, 00:48:46.593 --> 00:48:49.253 and efficiency in managing your data and your applications. 00:48:49.853 --> 00:48:53.113 You'll hear us talk about things like Home Assistant or Jellyfin or some of 00:48:53.113 --> 00:48:54.553 the LLM apps that are a lot of fun. 00:48:54.693 --> 00:48:58.373 You can spin these up in just seconds on top of Unraid. 00:48:58.673 --> 00:49:02.273 Additionally, if you have mismatched disks, Unraid will help you manage all of that. 00:49:02.413 --> 00:49:05.013 They have some of the best virtualization support out there, 00:49:05.153 --> 00:49:10.393 making it easy to pass through hardware or share graphics cards amongst multiple virtual machines. 00:49:10.733 --> 00:49:14.873 And if you're getting into ZFS or you've already got ZFS, well, 00:49:14.993 --> 00:49:18.593 Unraid has something for you. And they really kicked things up recently in Unraid 00:49:18.593 --> 00:49:20.373 7.1, if you haven't taken a look. 00:49:20.553 --> 00:49:26.453 They make it possible now to support and import the existing pools on your Ubuntu 00:49:26.453 --> 00:49:30.093 system or maybe your Proxmox box or a FreeNAS box. 00:49:30.193 --> 00:49:33.533 You know, you want to step it up to something a little classier and more powerful. 00:49:33.533 --> 00:49:36.793 You can now just import it, boom, right into Unraid. 00:49:36.953 --> 00:49:41.193 It's such an awesome move and feature. But beyond that, they've also just taken 00:49:41.193 --> 00:49:44.733 the ZFS level support all the way there. They've got a bunch of file system 00:49:44.733 --> 00:49:50.073 support, but very impressed to see how they've completed that circle in Unraid 7.1. 00:49:50.233 --> 00:49:56.013 Also in there now is wireless networking support. So if you're like me at home, I can't run Ethernet. 00:49:56.293 --> 00:50:01.813 So everything has to be on Wi-Fi or I suppose ZigBee or Z-Wave or something. 00:50:02.113 --> 00:50:07.233 So having out of the box Wi-Fi support makes that a lot nicer. 00:50:07.593 --> 00:50:11.593 Also, I've been playing around with reusable VM templates. So think about this. 00:50:12.013 --> 00:50:14.913 System just, you get it working, you like it a lot, boom, that's a template 00:50:14.913 --> 00:50:16.893 now, and now you can reuse that over and over again. 00:50:17.593 --> 00:50:19.313 Lots of very awesome features. 00:50:20.850 --> 00:50:25.490 I think as a longtime Linux user, the thing I appreciate the most is that they 00:50:25.490 --> 00:50:29.110 truly do follow Linux development. They watch that driver space. 00:50:29.210 --> 00:50:34.530 They watch the file system space. And they incorporate it intelligently and safely into Unraid. 00:50:35.010 --> 00:50:38.990 They are really taking an active role in that position. And they're not falling 00:50:38.990 --> 00:50:42.550 behind and forgetting about updating the kernel and that kind of stuff. 00:50:42.650 --> 00:50:45.070 They make sure they track that. When they ship a new version of Unraid, 00:50:45.230 --> 00:50:49.150 you get Linux features that have been tested, tried, and the ones you want for this kind of system. 00:50:49.590 --> 00:50:52.670 That's part of what I really like about it. And I think that's why it's awesome 00:50:52.670 --> 00:50:55.510 they actually have a monetization strategy for Unraid. 00:50:55.810 --> 00:50:59.710 That's what's made this possible for all these years. So get started now. 00:50:59.870 --> 00:51:04.470 Go to unraid.net slash unplugged. See how far your imagination and your server 00:51:04.470 --> 00:51:06.330 can go while you're supporting the show. 00:51:06.470 --> 00:51:09.750 You get a free 30-day trial, no credit card required. Kick the tires. 00:51:09.870 --> 00:51:10.730 See what we're talking about. 00:51:11.150 --> 00:51:13.390 Unraid.net slash unplugged. 00:51:16.390 --> 00:51:18.630 If you catch the bootleg on the 00:51:18.630 --> 00:51:25.270 regular one thing quickly becomes clear we spend a lot of time together. 00:51:25.270 --> 00:51:30.710 Whoa whoa whoa whoa okay so it makes me think it probably with that description 00:51:30.710 --> 00:51:34.470 there's probably something in brent compatible there yeah actually quite a few 00:51:34.470 --> 00:51:40.510 things and i may have twisted the rules oh were they amenable to that i oh you 00:51:40.510 --> 00:51:44.430 never actually went into the script. You didn't give, oh, but there was no script. 00:51:45.290 --> 00:51:46.390 You know, how many times do you 00:51:46.390 --> 00:51:50.550 get to go out to dinner with Wes and he doesn't get to enjoy the script? 00:51:51.570 --> 00:51:54.670 It's something we all enjoy about you. I can give it to you now if you want. 00:51:54.850 --> 00:51:56.330 Yeah. Could you give us the script, please? 00:51:56.530 --> 00:51:59.310 Could you let Wes experience? I would love the script. Can you set the scene 00:51:59.310 --> 00:52:01.830 for me? Oh, yeah, sure. Let me get my, Wes, do you have a pen? 00:52:02.790 --> 00:52:04.870 No, I can just pretend like I have a pen. It's fine. We're not actually taking 00:52:04.870 --> 00:52:06.410 it. Yeah, here's my pen. Oh, great. Thank you. 00:52:07.670 --> 00:52:11.090 Hello, sir. Are you ready to order? Oh, Wes, you should go first. 00:52:11.330 --> 00:52:14.110 Yeah, gin and tonic, please. Okay, gin and tonic. Anything to eat. 00:52:14.290 --> 00:52:16.750 No food. Just the booze. Got you. I like you. 00:52:17.130 --> 00:52:18.930 All right, sir. And what about you? You look like a hungry man. 00:52:19.090 --> 00:52:22.690 Yes, but I have some allergies I'd like to mention. Oh, sure. Yeah, okay. 00:52:23.370 --> 00:52:26.290 So there's two of them. I think this dish will work, but I have a backup in 00:52:26.290 --> 00:52:28.730 case. So one is dairy, you know? 00:52:28.890 --> 00:52:31.510 But down here I have to specify sometimes. Okay, yeah. 00:52:32.290 --> 00:52:35.350 Sure. Anything with cheese. Cream base, too. 00:52:35.690 --> 00:52:40.730 Okay, cream, too? Well, dairy. But butter's fine. Only in Mexican rice, but... 00:52:41.612 --> 00:52:45.212 Uh-huh. But usually not. So if you can, you know. I'm open to anything the chef 00:52:45.212 --> 00:52:48.652 wants to do, though. Yeah, okay. So no dairy. Anything else? Anything else? 00:52:49.512 --> 00:52:52.972 Well, gluten, too. Oh. What about flour? 00:52:53.092 --> 00:52:55.412 Because we have flour in, like, everything. Well, corn flour's fine. 00:52:55.592 --> 00:52:57.572 No, no. What about flour? 00:52:58.332 --> 00:53:01.612 Flour? You mean, like, wheat flour? Yeah, yeah. 00:53:01.792 --> 00:53:05.472 Actually, that contains gluten. Okay, all right. I'll double check with the chef, but go ahead. 00:53:05.592 --> 00:53:08.832 Okay, but I can give you, like, two options. Okay, yeah. That way you're not going back and forth. 00:53:08.912 --> 00:53:10.792 Happy to double check for you, sir. I'm happy to do that. Okay, 00:53:10.892 --> 00:53:13.952 okay. Well, I forgot what I was going to order. Okay. 00:53:14.232 --> 00:53:16.752 What do you suggest? Do you guys need another minute? Oh, you know, 00:53:16.852 --> 00:53:20.252 what's really popular here is the steak fried chicken. People love that. 00:53:21.152 --> 00:53:24.412 Love that. Can you describe that? Oh, with the cream gravy. Yeah, it comes. 00:53:24.552 --> 00:53:28.792 Oh, so first of all, we make our own batter here. Now, we don't grow the chickens, 00:53:28.892 --> 00:53:30.032 but we get it from a great source. 00:53:30.192 --> 00:53:32.952 So we have chicken and steak because, you know, not everybody likes beef. 00:53:33.092 --> 00:53:34.972 I'm sure that, you know, like you mentioned, you have some allergies. 00:53:35.592 --> 00:53:38.672 So what we do is we just take that piece of meat and, you know, 00:53:38.812 --> 00:53:42.952 we just don't, we just source from anywhere we can get it. because it's a pretty expensive market. 00:53:43.092 --> 00:53:47.092 But we get it in stock, pretty much in bulk, and then the stuff that's been 00:53:47.092 --> 00:53:49.792 sitting around for a while, it starts to get a little funky, 00:53:49.812 --> 00:53:52.192 so you don't notice is we have this really great batter. 00:53:52.472 --> 00:53:55.052 Ooh. Now, it is made with flour. I think you said flour is okay? 00:53:55.272 --> 00:53:58.152 So anyways, we just batter this thing up real good, and then we fry it in a 00:53:58.152 --> 00:54:00.292 bunch of oil. Does the batter have beer in it? 00:54:00.972 --> 00:54:04.012 We do have a beer batter offering, yeah. Is it like a black beer? 00:54:04.372 --> 00:54:07.912 No, no, no. It's our IPA with extra wheat. 00:54:08.492 --> 00:54:13.812 Oh, like a wheat ale. No, no, no, it's an IPA Oh, sorry None of that's going 00:54:13.812 --> 00:54:15.712 to work for me Okay, so you need another minute? 00:54:16.372 --> 00:54:18.692 You know what, I'll come back and take your order when you guys are ready, 00:54:18.872 --> 00:54:21.972 okay? I'll be back in just a few minutes But can I just tell you about some allergies that I have? 00:54:22.592 --> 00:54:24.732 Yeah, sure, go ahead I thought you did that, 00:54:26.812 --> 00:54:29.712 I'll just have water Okay, a water and a gin. 00:54:32.185 --> 00:54:39.625 Oh, that is fun. But sometimes we do have a darker side that gets revealed. 00:54:39.845 --> 00:54:42.325 And well, after all, it is live. 00:54:42.605 --> 00:54:45.485 Here's an example of what I'm talking about. you know folks let's uh 00:54:45.485 --> 00:54:49.545 let's talk turkey for a minute here how so these llms 00:54:49.545 --> 00:54:52.525 will produce a soundbite of me that sounds a 00:54:52.525 --> 00:54:55.285 lot like me that was not me but what i 00:54:55.285 --> 00:54:58.385 find insulting is not that they're stealing my voice not that i wasn't asked 00:54:58.385 --> 00:55:01.345 but that they make me sound like 00:55:01.345 --> 00:55:04.485 a moron because he's very loquacious but it's 00:55:04.485 --> 00:55:08.025 thin listen you've got your system right and you're 00:55:08.025 --> 00:55:11.185 sitting there maybe on ubuntu box maybe fedora maybe even 00:55:11.185 --> 00:55:14.045 the dabbling in the art side of things god bless your 00:55:14.045 --> 00:55:17.225 cotton socks if you are you probably run in a desktop environment 00:55:17.225 --> 00:55:19.845 got your graphical interface all you know pretty and neat you open up 00:55:19.845 --> 00:55:22.845 that system monitor click around seeing how your cpu is chewing 00:55:22.845 --> 00:55:25.765 through tasks or or how much ram slack has 00:55:25.765 --> 00:55:28.745 eaten up this week it's well it's adequate gets the job done for browsing 00:55:28.745 --> 00:55:32.065 the web or or watching cat videos sure fine but 00:55:32.065 --> 00:55:34.925 let me tell you something if you shy away from that 00:55:34.925 --> 00:55:37.965 command line the little black box you're leaving 00:55:37.965 --> 00:55:41.425 serious horsepower right there on the table serious you're 00:55:41.425 --> 00:55:44.405 letting the machine kind of spoon feed you its version of reality can 00:55:44.405 --> 00:55:47.225 i just say one i don't breathe like that in the microphone i 00:55:47.225 --> 00:55:50.085 have better mic technique than that so i don't know where they got that from they 00:55:50.085 --> 00:55:52.685 add that in because if they're sampling it for me they're not 00:55:52.685 --> 00:55:57.005 getting it from me two listen right now you hear. 00:55:57.005 --> 00:56:00.485 How silent our background is yeah i've noticed sometimes when it's doing the 00:56:00.485 --> 00:56:04.365 weird voices or kind of breaking there's more background noise yeah we have 00:56:04.365 --> 00:56:09.205 good clean quiet audio and they've so they've made me breathe more they make 00:56:09.205 --> 00:56:13.585 me sound like a moron who just ties a bunch of dumb analogies together and they've 00:56:13.585 --> 00:56:14.825 added a bunch of background noise. 00:56:14.965 --> 00:56:16.065 Instead of you telling the machine 00:56:16.065 --> 00:56:20.405 exactly what tiny little piece of information you need right now, see? 00:56:20.685 --> 00:56:24.905 Think about pulling up HTOP versus your graphical task manager. 00:56:25.025 --> 00:56:28.325 HTOP gives you the detail, real detail. You can see individual threads, 00:56:28.505 --> 00:56:30.205 the full process tree, CPU affinity. 00:56:30.445 --> 00:56:34.805 I mean, you can sort, filter, search, kill processes with just a single key press. 00:56:34.985 --> 00:56:37.745 I guess that's actually the most information I've ever heard it actually give. 00:56:37.825 --> 00:56:39.585 That's actual specifics. I don't know if any of them are right. 00:56:40.285 --> 00:56:44.285 It's closer. I think what burns me about it, A, is it's my voice, 00:56:44.305 --> 00:56:47.125 but bad quality, right? That's what, I don't like that. 00:56:47.365 --> 00:56:53.805 And then B, it sounds worse, and I think it sounds worse because their version 00:56:53.805 --> 00:56:57.825 of what a podcast is, is something where somebody breathes into the microphone 00:56:57.825 --> 00:56:59.105 a bunch and has shitty audio. 00:56:59.545 --> 00:57:03.085 And that pisses me off because it tells you the intentions of the creators of 00:57:03.085 --> 00:57:05.705 the tool is like, well, we've got to suck this up a little bit, 00:57:05.705 --> 00:57:07.645 so that way people think it's a podcast. 00:57:08.285 --> 00:57:10.805 That's what's happening. They're like, it doesn't sound amateur enough. 00:57:10.925 --> 00:57:15.185 Make it sound more sh**. I mean, it may be that that's the LLM found that. 00:57:15.974 --> 00:57:19.574 Maybe. Maybe you're saying that's the best way. On average, podcasts suck. 00:57:19.674 --> 00:57:21.554 Uh-huh. You might be on a Sunday. Which means we stand out. 00:57:22.574 --> 00:57:24.314 Okay, one more. Folks, let me tell 00:57:24.314 --> 00:57:28.034 you. Tired of those old, drawn-out BIOS reboots? You need to try Kazek. 00:57:28.134 --> 00:57:31.274 That's right. I'm Wes, and I'm the head of KigTix content for Jupyter Broadcasting, 00:57:31.314 --> 00:57:33.254 and I'm here to tell you about the miracle. 00:57:33.954 --> 00:57:37.934 Yes, the miracle of the Linux kernel's Kazek. Now, listen up. 00:57:37.994 --> 00:57:41.834 This ain't just your regular rebooting, no, sir. This is enlightened rebooting. 00:57:42.134 --> 00:57:45.314 Kazek lets your currently running Linux kernel, it lets it act like a bootloader 00:57:45.314 --> 00:57:46.334 itself. Think about that. 00:57:46.494 --> 00:57:48.854 It loads up a brand new kernel, writing to memory, gets it all ready to go. 00:57:48.914 --> 00:57:51.154 And then it just performs the control jump straight into it. 00:57:51.294 --> 00:57:52.814 Pow! You completely bypass. 00:57:53.154 --> 00:57:56.334 Skip right over. That slow, tedious firmware initialization, 00:57:56.494 --> 00:57:58.514 all that POST stuff, gone. 00:57:58.794 --> 00:58:01.714 Voice two speakers. Skip the wait. That's right. We're talking milliseconds, folks. 00:58:02.114 --> 00:58:04.474 Milliseconds to load and jump, not minutes sitting there staring at them. 00:58:04.594 --> 00:58:06.134 Did you hear it in there just for a second? 00:58:06.634 --> 00:58:10.454 A little bit of Wes's torture came through. Did you catch it? 00:58:10.854 --> 00:58:13.994 I want to see if I can... All that POST stuff, gone. 00:58:14.274 --> 00:58:17.254 Voice two speakers. skipped the way that's right we're talking milliseconds folks 00:58:17.254 --> 00:58:19.994 voice two speakers so that's where it aired out 00:58:19.994 --> 00:58:24.914 so when wes gets it to do the weird voices it fails to do the second speaker 00:58:24.914 --> 00:58:29.934 most often often yeah and so that's an that sometimes like abrupt topic changes 00:58:29.934 --> 00:58:33.654 i've been trying that recently that'll kick it to a different voice too so it's 00:58:33.654 --> 00:58:36.834 interesting because i think that or voice two where he says voice two out loud 00:58:36.834 --> 00:58:38.694 is where the second voice would have come in right. 00:58:40.552 --> 00:58:44.632 Broken you are a torture of the AI and I love it it's funny the things you get 00:58:44.632 --> 00:58:49.272 oh that one that you sent where the AI was actually just screaming, 00:58:52.852 --> 00:58:55.632 yeah I've gotten some kind of dark stuff out of it yeah 00:58:55.632 --> 00:58:58.772 weirdly I had one where a person 00:58:58.772 --> 00:59:02.132 was turning into a dog like a on our 00:59:02.132 --> 00:59:04.932 live radio broadcast weird yeah but they 00:59:04.932 --> 00:59:07.872 were like dedicated to trying to finish the broadcast as 00:59:07.872 --> 00:59:10.892 they were so their brains no shut up yeah it's kind of creepy sadly 00:59:10.892 --> 00:59:14.232 i forgot to download oh god i would have loved to hear that sounds like 00:59:14.232 --> 00:59:17.112 a good okay i got i found it what'd you get which one 00:59:17.112 --> 00:59:21.412 the tortured oh you found it uh-huh so i just kind of replied to the thread 00:59:21.412 --> 00:59:24.812 and it should show up at the bottom of our chat there okay is that the crazy 00:59:24.812 --> 00:59:29.252 one there yeah okay all right here we go you seem hesitant well just because 00:59:29.252 --> 00:59:33.492 i don't want it to be too loud it comes in like yeah i do norm i'm pretty hot 00:59:33.492 --> 00:59:35.232 okay folks hold on right there. 00:59:43.912 --> 00:59:48.992 What is it doing? Just warming up in smoke or something. 00:59:56.912 --> 01:00:00.612 The bees, they're attacking. This is really creepy. 01:00:06.172 --> 01:00:13.152 I'm going to have to manually fetch a few lib files straight from the repo mirror. 01:00:13.372 --> 01:00:16.972 Bless their hearts they mean well. 01:00:17.232 --> 01:00:20.352 But sometimes the package management system just, 01:00:21.143 --> 01:00:24.463 It ain't as robust as you'd hope, you know? I know, man. 01:00:24.963 --> 01:00:29.223 Freedom, performance, control of your own machine. 01:00:30.023 --> 01:00:36.343 That's what it's all about, ain't it? Taking back the reins, making things run away. 01:00:39.703 --> 01:00:45.703 The way the good Lord intended. Oh, my God. Insane. 01:00:50.003 --> 01:00:53.083 And this is what west does in his free time those poor 01:00:53.083 --> 01:00:56.723 machines they're gonna come for you one day this is what the gpus are for i'm 01:00:56.723 --> 01:01:01.963 telling you how many kilowatt hours did it take to make that good question well 01:01:01.963 --> 01:01:05.943 notebook put in a limit i've got to i've got to assume i was part of that yeah 01:01:05.943 --> 01:01:10.103 they're like this some guy yeah some guy in seattle and i only ever thumbs up 01:01:10.103 --> 01:01:12.763 the weird one so I'm really just trying to give feedback to their system. 01:01:13.043 --> 01:01:15.923 Oh, no, really? Uh-huh. You're so twisted. I love it. 01:01:21.723 --> 01:01:26.043 Well, we have no boost this week, but we do have that bootleg promo code membership 01:01:26.043 --> 01:01:28.543 if you'd like to sign up and get the bootleg episode. 01:01:28.983 --> 01:01:32.283 We will be collecting boosts for the episode when we come back live next week. 01:01:32.623 --> 01:01:35.663 And we'd love to hear about some of your favorite summer road trip destinations. 01:01:36.263 --> 01:01:40.263 Let us know. Boost in or send us an email at linuxunplugged.com slash contact. 01:01:40.943 --> 01:01:45.663 If you have a fancy podcast client, do check out our chapters and transcripts, 01:01:45.763 --> 01:01:47.963 which are available on every recent episode. 01:01:48.243 --> 01:01:51.263 Indeed, and most episodes have lots of links, probably not this episode, 01:01:51.363 --> 01:01:52.543 at linuxunplugged.com. 01:01:52.683 --> 01:01:55.383 Thank you so much for joining us on this week's episode. We'll see you back 01:01:55.383 --> 01:01:57.443 here next Tuesday, as in Sunday.
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