Skip to main content
LawHub
Sign In
About LawHub Advantage EXPLORING LAW Preparing for the LSAT Applying to Law School EXCEL IN LAW SCHOOL CHARTING YOUR CAREER Listen to I Am The Law Podcast Trends Sign In
Search

Google's Garden Lockdown

Aug 31, 2025
Listen to this episode

Google's sideloading lockdown has us pushing Wes' Pixel further than Google ever dreamed.

Sponsored By:

Support LINUX Unplugged

Links:

Transcript

WEBVTT 00:00:11.657 --> 00:00:16.177 Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. 00:00:16.377 --> 00:00:17.037 My name is Wes. 00:00:17.257 --> 00:00:18.077 And my name is Brent. 00:00:18.537 --> 00:00:22.537 Hello, gentlemen. Well, coming up on the show today, it appears Google is laying 00:00:22.537 --> 00:00:26.157 the groundwork to start locking down sideloading on Android. 00:00:26.477 --> 00:00:30.577 You can imagine we have some thoughts on that news. So what we'll do is we'll 00:00:30.577 --> 00:00:35.077 push Wes's pixel further than Google ever imagined or dreamed possible. 00:00:35.277 --> 00:00:38.857 Then we'll round out the show with some great boosts and picks and a lot more. 00:00:38.857 --> 00:00:42.537 So before we get to all of that, let's start by saying time-appropriate greetings 00:00:42.537 --> 00:00:44.837 to our mumble room. Hello, Virtual Log. 00:00:44.977 --> 00:00:47.257 Hello there. Hello, Brent. 00:00:47.777 --> 00:00:50.537 Hello. And hello, everybody up there in the quiet listening, 00:00:50.697 --> 00:00:52.157 too. Got a good showing up there as well. 00:00:52.417 --> 00:00:57.437 Of course, we're doing this here podcast live on a Sunday. We start around 10 a.m. 00:00:57.557 --> 00:01:00.637 Pacific time, but you can get that converted to jupiterbroadcasting.com slash 00:01:00.637 --> 00:01:02.637 calendar. Or here's a pro tip. 00:01:03.817 --> 00:01:07.437 Use the podcasting 2.0 app, and it'll just be right there in your list. 00:01:07.937 --> 00:01:14.997 Easy peasy. And a big thank you to Defined Networking at Defined.net slash unplugged. 00:01:15.037 --> 00:01:17.337 Go meet Managed Nebula from Defined Networking. 00:01:17.557 --> 00:01:23.437 They took the brilliant, beautiful, fully open source Nebula Mesh VPN network 00:01:23.437 --> 00:01:26.097 and built this product around that anyone can use. 00:01:26.197 --> 00:01:30.877 It's Managed Nebula, a decentralized VPN built on what we think is the best 00:01:30.877 --> 00:01:32.637 open source Mesh VPN platform. 00:01:32.837 --> 00:01:37.997 And the entire stack is optimized for speed, simplicity, and industry-leading security. 00:01:37.997 --> 00:01:43.537 Slack has been using it since day one, but we hear more and more stories from 00:01:43.537 --> 00:01:48.537 you out there in the audience using it to point it on your home labs or for 00:01:48.537 --> 00:01:51.137 work or whatever it is, and as a result, keep sending them in. 00:01:51.637 --> 00:01:54.317 We've been seeing some pretty cool tools sent into the network, 00:01:54.357 --> 00:01:56.977 but this one was actually made by one of our own. 00:01:57.057 --> 00:02:02.097 Deckbot, listener Deckbot, has made Nebulous CertMaker, a simple YAML and Python 00:02:02.097 --> 00:02:05.697 script to create certificates for all of your mesh nodes. 00:02:06.217 --> 00:02:10.077 So I think, Wes, the way it works is it looks like you have a list of all your hosts. 00:02:10.837 --> 00:02:16.137 It'll walk through that list and create a new Nebula certificate and generate 00:02:16.137 --> 00:02:18.637 and sign the certificates for each one of the hosts in that file. 00:02:19.097 --> 00:02:22.817 Exactly, yes. Like Nebula itself provides the primitives for managing the certs 00:02:22.817 --> 00:02:23.837 and all that kind of thing. 00:02:24.377 --> 00:02:27.857 And you can build on top of it. And DeckBot has, which is awesome. 00:02:27.997 --> 00:02:30.357 And we're seeing more and more of that, which is great to see. 00:02:30.497 --> 00:02:35.177 Shout out to DeckBot for making something just real simple but really useful. 00:02:35.697 --> 00:02:40.717 And the nice thing about Nebula is when you deploy Nebula, you are in control. 00:02:41.890 --> 00:02:44.990 You can run the entire infrastructure. It's not bits of it that are kind of 00:02:44.990 --> 00:02:47.630 like this weird fork and you can kind of run part of the infrastructure. 00:02:47.710 --> 00:02:51.530 No, you can run all of it or you can take advantage of their managed product. 00:02:51.750 --> 00:02:55.670 Go right now to define.net slash unplugged and get 100 hosts absolutely free. 00:02:56.010 --> 00:03:00.530 Take advantage of top tier encryption. Take advantage of the leading industry 00:03:00.530 --> 00:03:03.410 product that is lean, mean, and fast on your host. 00:03:03.870 --> 00:03:09.610 100 hosts absolutely free. No credit card required. Go to define.net slash unplugged. 00:03:13.570 --> 00:03:18.870 Okay, it's on. It's definitely on. Texas Linux Festival, October 3rd through 00:03:18.870 --> 00:03:23.410 the 4th in Austin, Texas, at the Commons Conference Center in Austin. 00:03:24.330 --> 00:03:28.470 We're all road tripping. Brent's coming down from the East Coast, 00:03:28.670 --> 00:03:30.470 coming down in the van to Texas. 00:03:30.930 --> 00:03:35.030 And Wes and I are going to load into my car and road trip down on the West Coast. 00:03:35.150 --> 00:03:38.950 So we'll be coming down individual coasts at the same time. That's kind of cool. 00:03:39.070 --> 00:03:40.270 So meet us there, why don't you? 00:03:40.350 --> 00:03:41.230 Coast to coast. 00:03:41.890 --> 00:03:47.750 Coast to coast Texas Linux Fest. We don't have swag yet, but we will probably 00:03:47.750 --> 00:03:51.230 midweek have some Texas Linux Fest swag in the Jupyter Garage. 00:03:51.330 --> 00:03:52.350 So I'll put a link in the show notes. 00:03:52.550 --> 00:03:56.710 So midweek after this came out, go check that out. So, you know, 00:03:56.770 --> 00:03:57.850 the first week of September. 00:03:58.910 --> 00:04:03.050 And once again, I'm going to be coming to you asking to help us get there with some boosts. 00:04:03.110 --> 00:04:08.110 We're in conversation with one potential sponsor, but it hasn't really gotten 00:04:08.110 --> 00:04:11.290 anywhere yet. And I'm not sure it will in time for us to make it to Texas Linux 00:04:11.290 --> 00:04:13.330 Fest. So we're going to self-finance this one way or another. 00:04:14.530 --> 00:04:17.730 My hope is that we can get some boosts that come in. And then what we're going 00:04:17.730 --> 00:04:19.430 to do, and the reason why the boosts are going to be useful, 00:04:19.690 --> 00:04:21.710 is I'll be completely frank with you. 00:04:22.210 --> 00:04:24.510 I'm going to throw them into a loan. I'm not going to sell them. 00:04:24.590 --> 00:04:25.390 I'm going to throw them into a loan. 00:04:25.450 --> 00:04:29.230 And if somehow for something happened and the price crashed and we got margin 00:04:29.230 --> 00:04:30.570 call, it's fine. It's the same as selling them then. 00:04:30.790 --> 00:04:33.870 But we're going to put them into a loan. We're going to do that to finance our 00:04:33.870 --> 00:04:35.350 ability to get down to Texas Linux Fest. 00:04:35.770 --> 00:04:38.750 Now, Chris, why would you do something like that? That's crazy. 00:04:40.010 --> 00:04:43.370 I am really committed to trying to cover these events in a way. 00:04:43.590 --> 00:04:50.050 I know this sounds sort of, well, you know, sort of self, self, um, I don't know. 00:04:50.170 --> 00:04:54.630 It's sort of, it's not a brag, but I just, I feel strongly that if these events don't get covered. 00:04:56.061 --> 00:04:59.001 And they're not streamed online or anything like that. It's like it's in a way 00:04:59.001 --> 00:05:01.481 they don't really happen except for in this small little pocket. 00:05:02.301 --> 00:05:05.381 And they don't make often a huge impact outside of that. 00:05:06.241 --> 00:05:11.501 And these are really unique to the Linux community. These fests that are put 00:05:11.501 --> 00:05:15.881 together by just volunteers that care about Linux and free software. 00:05:16.241 --> 00:05:20.261 And it's a real pain in the butt. And they go through all of the work. 00:05:20.721 --> 00:05:23.481 A year-long job. Every year. 00:05:23.481 --> 00:05:29.741 Without the, you know, corporate style of it kind of budget or time allocation or anything like that. 00:05:29.821 --> 00:05:34.461 Constantly trying to juggle venues and budgets and networking and community expectations. 00:05:35.321 --> 00:05:40.001 And they put together something that brings us together across different cultures 00:05:40.001 --> 00:05:43.061 and different beliefs. But we come together around Linux and free software. 00:05:43.861 --> 00:05:48.641 And the connections you make there are truly like they take something maybe 00:05:48.641 --> 00:05:51.601 like somebody you've known online. You meet them in person and they become true friendships. 00:05:52.821 --> 00:05:55.901 And it's not just about the networking these are 00:05:55.901 --> 00:05:59.061 really special events and they're unique to our community 00:05:59.061 --> 00:06:02.161 they're unique to our culture other things 00:06:02.161 --> 00:06:06.361 they have their kind of community events but nothing's like a linux fest and 00:06:06.361 --> 00:06:10.181 i feel really strongly that it's one of the things the show can do as a contribution 00:06:10.181 --> 00:06:13.721 to the linux community at whole is try to document and capture these things 00:06:13.721 --> 00:06:18.501 as they happen and then they become part of the show's tapestry over time so 00:06:18.501 --> 00:06:19.641 five years you listen and back, 00:06:19.781 --> 00:06:23.841 you know, you can hear the 2025 Texas Linux Fest. It's a time capsule. 00:06:24.761 --> 00:06:28.161 And then the difference of us going and not going is the difference of that 00:06:28.161 --> 00:06:30.061 getting covered and getting captured. 00:06:30.701 --> 00:06:34.421 And plus, we meet our fellow community members there. 00:06:34.641 --> 00:06:38.581 It's our opportunity and our chance to actually convert numbers on a dashboard 00:06:38.581 --> 00:06:44.901 to real faces. And it gives us this kind of motivation that you just don't get 00:06:44.901 --> 00:06:47.381 scrolling social media and reading the email feedback. 00:06:48.081 --> 00:06:53.541 So it's probably one of the most expensive things we do and probably one of 00:06:53.541 --> 00:06:54.741 the most important things we do. 00:06:55.501 --> 00:06:59.161 And, you know, screw me if I have yet to figure out a way to really make a profit 00:06:59.161 --> 00:07:02.441 at it. But it's still something I feel is extremely important we do. 00:07:03.061 --> 00:07:06.961 And it's also a form of genuine, unique content and journalism. 00:07:07.621 --> 00:07:12.921 I think that's kind of maybe don't call it that, but it's in the category of we're going there. 00:07:13.041 --> 00:07:15.841 We're doing original reporting that isn't being covered anywhere else. 00:07:15.841 --> 00:07:19.961 We're capturing something that's unique to our community, and we have an inherent 00:07:19.961 --> 00:07:24.601 expertise and understanding on the topic matter and on the culture and of the people, 00:07:25.141 --> 00:07:28.081 so we're perfectly positioned to cover it and capture it. 00:07:29.749 --> 00:07:33.109 So it just feels like it's extremely important to me that we actually do this. 00:07:33.349 --> 00:07:38.189 And I felt this way for years, but it's really been crystallized in the last couple of years. 00:07:39.709 --> 00:07:42.569 But that doesn't mean there's commercial interest in there. There's not a lot 00:07:42.569 --> 00:07:46.209 of companies that are going to make a lot of money financing that. 00:07:46.989 --> 00:07:51.109 Now, there's some that want to do it, but it hasn't materialized yet. 00:07:52.389 --> 00:07:55.509 But I think it's important, and I would like your help if you would like to 00:07:55.509 --> 00:07:56.529 boost in and help us get there. 00:07:57.449 --> 00:08:00.769 We're going to take those sats. We're going to throw them in a SALT loan. 00:08:01.969 --> 00:08:03.549 There is a margin of insurance there. 00:08:03.909 --> 00:08:06.629 And then we're going to use that to finance it to get us down there. 00:08:06.729 --> 00:08:10.469 And then I'm going to pay it off probably myself personally over the next year 00:08:10.469 --> 00:08:12.389 or so. Or we'll sell the SALT, whatever we have to do. 00:08:13.269 --> 00:08:17.209 But it gives us some optionality. We have the option to or not to sell them. 00:08:17.609 --> 00:08:19.169 So it gives us flexibility there. 00:08:19.629 --> 00:08:23.149 And when it's in that SALT loan, we'll have cash that we can use to get our 00:08:23.149 --> 00:08:26.869 butts down there and rent hotels and whatever else we have to do. 00:08:27.789 --> 00:08:34.029 so that's the goal it's a bit ambitious and we only have until the end of this 00:08:34.029 --> 00:08:41.889 month really next month september to do it because i think by my math we need to hit the road, 00:08:42.969 --> 00:08:47.089 by september 28th so the episode we do on september 28th we basically after 00:08:47.089 --> 00:08:48.589 the episode we pack up and we hit the road. 00:08:48.589 --> 00:08:51.749 Well we got to get there because i got the good news that my talk was accepted 00:08:51.749 --> 00:08:55.449 so i'll be sharing an updated version of my mesh networking on nix os talk. 00:08:56.869 --> 00:09:00.709 Well, now we got a mission. We got to get Wes to Texas Linux Fest so he can 00:09:00.709 --> 00:09:02.869 give us a talk. And then we'll meet up with Brent. 00:09:03.709 --> 00:09:06.769 He'll be there in his van at Texas Linux Fest, and we'll hang out in Austin 00:09:06.769 --> 00:09:08.749 with you guys and with Brent and everybody. 00:09:10.009 --> 00:09:14.529 And then we're going to caravan back up to the Pacific Northwest in my car and Brent's van. 00:09:15.549 --> 00:09:16.489 Operation Homeward Bound. 00:09:16.549 --> 00:09:20.949 Yeah. So it's super ambitious, but we hope, we hope, we hope you will help us 00:09:20.949 --> 00:09:24.409 with that. You can send us a boost. The easiest way to do it is Fountain FM. 00:09:26.049 --> 00:09:28.469 Now, again, the reason why we're doing boosts is because we're going to be using 00:09:28.469 --> 00:09:29.789 that in a particular way. 00:09:29.969 --> 00:09:32.989 So Fountain FM is probably the most straightforward way to do it because they 00:09:32.989 --> 00:09:34.089 self-host all that infrastructure. 00:09:34.449 --> 00:09:37.869 Now, if you can't do that or you don't want to participate in that, 00:09:38.169 --> 00:09:43.549 later in the week, we should have some Texas LinuxFest swag up in the Jupyter 00:09:43.549 --> 00:09:45.929 Garage at JupyterGarage.com. 00:09:46.889 --> 00:09:50.469 And, you know, inflation has hit the prices of swag. I was complaining to the 00:09:50.469 --> 00:09:52.969 boys that even like before we price it, these things are ridiculous. 00:09:52.969 --> 00:09:55.649 list, but we'll try to keep it reasonable, but something in there that can still 00:09:55.649 --> 00:09:57.089 put some fuel in the tank and whatnot. 00:09:57.329 --> 00:10:00.569 And we'll have that up at jupytergarage.com, which could be another way. 00:10:00.969 --> 00:10:03.649 And just anybody that does even consider it. Thank you very much. 00:10:04.109 --> 00:10:08.129 So it's a wild thing we're doing here, making a Linux podcast for a very niche 00:10:08.129 --> 00:10:10.869 audience, caring about these kinds of esoteric things. 00:10:11.189 --> 00:10:13.589 There's not a lot of people out there that get it. So if you're one of them, 00:10:13.709 --> 00:10:14.589 we really appreciate you. 00:10:19.643 --> 00:10:25.223 Well, we wanted to follow up on the Bcash FS saga, as it has now been officially 00:10:25.223 --> 00:10:28.963 marked as externally maintained by Linus Torvalds, 00:10:29.203 --> 00:10:34.923 which means essentially Bcash FS has lost its seat at the dinner table and it's 00:10:34.923 --> 00:10:36.343 going to go sit at the kids table again, 00:10:36.583 --> 00:10:38.583 which is a big shift since it was really, 00:10:38.883 --> 00:10:41.923 really close to being declared stable. 00:10:41.923 --> 00:10:46.103 But Linus has officially moved it from the supported category to, 00:10:46.503 --> 00:10:49.943 quote, externally maintained in the kernel's maintainer's file. 00:10:50.143 --> 00:10:52.783 Now, you guys know if you've been listening to the show, this is after months 00:10:52.783 --> 00:10:58.063 of back and forth that sort of broke down after Linux 6.17 and have led to this. 00:10:58.203 --> 00:11:04.563 Yeah, as Linus said in his commit, as per many long discussion threads, public and private. 00:11:04.843 --> 00:11:05.003 Yeah. 00:11:05.463 --> 00:11:09.983 But we don't know a ton about exactly what that means. I did take a little peek 00:11:09.983 --> 00:11:13.563 in the maintainer's file. it has a self-description on like this status line, 00:11:13.703 --> 00:11:17.103 which could be supported, which is someone is actually paid to look after this, 00:11:17.183 --> 00:11:20.423 could be maintained, which is somebody actually looks after it. 00:11:20.603 --> 00:11:24.743 Then there's odd fixes, there's orphan, and there's obsolete listed there. 00:11:24.903 --> 00:11:28.663 But then if you actually go grep in the file, there's a few more things that 00:11:28.663 --> 00:11:33.803 you find like an orphan slash obsolete, some specific references to different architectures. 00:11:33.983 --> 00:11:38.283 There's also one that's called buried alive in reporters, which is actually 00:11:38.283 --> 00:11:43.903 what is listed at the very bottom under the arrest which has linus listed as the maintainer what. 00:11:43.903 --> 00:11:48.123 Is buried under alive in reporters does that mean air reports or does that mean media. 00:11:48.123 --> 00:11:50.923 I think people you know talking to him he's basically the person 00:11:50.923 --> 00:11:54.403 of last resort you know yeah yeah but in 00:11:54.403 --> 00:11:57.323 there there's only right so standing out as a single entry 00:11:57.323 --> 00:12:00.663 is this externally maintained and there's no real other references i could find 00:12:00.663 --> 00:12:04.923 in the kernel source really so at this point i don't know what it means exactly 00:12:04.923 --> 00:12:07.923 in terms of like official status obviously it seems to be implied that linus 00:12:07.923 --> 00:12:11.643 is not intending to accept any pull requests for bcashfs at least anytime soon 00:12:11.643 --> 00:12:15.503 but we don't have any like official explanation as far as i've been able to find. 00:12:16.453 --> 00:12:20.013 So it doesn't it doesn't implicitly mean anything by externally maintained. 00:12:20.233 --> 00:12:23.113 Well, I mean, it surely has some meaning. We can seemingly infer that it's no 00:12:23.113 --> 00:12:27.353 longer being maintained in the kernel, but it did not come with like a description 00:12:27.353 --> 00:12:30.173 or update to the docs around the precise meaning. 00:12:30.353 --> 00:12:34.953 I wonder if you picked up on this. My sense was is so you read Linus and what 00:12:34.953 --> 00:12:39.693 he says, and it kind of sounds like there's been conversations in public and private, he says. 00:12:39.933 --> 00:12:42.193 And you get the sense that maybe everybody's on the same page. 00:12:42.633 --> 00:12:46.533 But then when I went to see what Kent's reaction was, it seemed like maybe that's not the case. 00:12:47.333 --> 00:12:49.713 In fact, it seemed like maybe Kent didn't even really know what was going on. 00:12:49.833 --> 00:12:50.733 Did you get that same picture? 00:12:51.073 --> 00:12:53.153 Yeah, I mean, to look at some of his public comments... 00:12:53.153 --> 00:12:54.613 Again, we should say the author of BcashFS. 00:12:54.793 --> 00:12:58.193 Right. He says things like, I know as much as the rest of you. 00:12:58.493 --> 00:13:00.693 We don't know what externally maintained means, though. 00:13:01.133 --> 00:13:04.633 It's all speculation. As far as I know, it means... What it means hasn't been 00:13:04.633 --> 00:13:07.473 communicated to anyone outside the inner circle. Certainly not me. 00:13:07.613 --> 00:13:11.493 So it seems to say that Kent's seen the update in the source tree in the reporting 00:13:11.493 --> 00:13:15.793 like everyone else, but it wasn't what externally maintained at least and what 00:13:15.793 --> 00:13:18.893 that implies for the future had not been communicated elsewhere. 00:13:20.113 --> 00:13:24.273 I don't know. Brent, do you think it's worth considering users taking action here? 00:13:24.453 --> 00:13:27.793 Like if more of us as users figure out whatever method it might be to use this 00:13:27.793 --> 00:13:32.973 file system, does that put pressure back on the Linux kernel developers to figure 00:13:32.973 --> 00:13:35.873 out a way to incorporate this, even if it is through an ambassador or something? 00:13:36.253 --> 00:13:38.453 Is there some action we can take in that regard, do you think? 00:13:39.573 --> 00:13:45.153 I'm not sure the number of people using it is part of the decision here. 00:13:45.333 --> 00:13:47.313 It seems like a lot of it is just interpersonal... 00:13:49.029 --> 00:13:52.469 challenges we've certainly seen this 00:13:52.469 --> 00:13:55.749 i think on the show as maybe the worst case for 00:13:55.749 --> 00:14:03.709 the file system so i i hope this is like a new status that maybe considers the 00:14:03.709 --> 00:14:08.109 project in some decisions instead of being 100 external and maybe there's a 00:14:08.109 --> 00:14:13.169 chance for it to come back in a year or two but this feels uh like a sad day 00:14:13.169 --> 00:14:14.369 at least that's how i'm feeling. 00:14:14.369 --> 00:14:19.269 I mean it does make it harder to use going forward it does seem like um kent 00:14:19.269 --> 00:14:25.009 and team are already working on publishing some dkms packages so that will definitely 00:14:25.009 --> 00:14:27.289 be an option at some point here in the short term i expect, 00:14:28.069 --> 00:14:32.349 and you know there may be also uh distros that decide to just build custom kernel 00:14:32.349 --> 00:14:36.609 variants with it compiled in or you know there's a few options for um and well 00:14:36.609 --> 00:14:40.869 i think we'll have to see exactly what that looks like on the ground as things move forward yeah. 00:14:40.869 --> 00:14:43.769 He did share recently on friday he 00:14:43.769 --> 00:14:46.849 says quote i think we're approaching a month since the last critical 00:14:46.849 --> 00:14:51.189 bug report that's a milestone things have stabilized faster than i expected 00:14:51.189 --> 00:14:54.769 at least from the look of things that's really good i mean a month since the 00:14:54.769 --> 00:14:57.869 last critical that's a good milestone it's nice that he can keep those things 00:14:57.869 --> 00:15:03.869 in mind i i have a bad habit i tend to completely ignore the successes and just focus on the. 00:15:03.869 --> 00:15:04.649 Next big. 00:15:04.649 --> 00:15:08.049 Thing that has to be fixed and it is good to recognize those kinds of things. 00:15:08.049 --> 00:15:11.489 He did go on in that little update to kind of list a few of that like there's 00:15:11.489 --> 00:15:14.449 a performance bug and accounting bug and a bug with some of the compression 00:15:14.449 --> 00:15:18.189 stuff, but they all seem like normal things you shake out in a file system. 00:15:18.369 --> 00:15:20.349 It sounds like progress is ongoing. So it doesn't seem like, 00:15:20.509 --> 00:15:23.609 at least on the development side, if you are willing to jump now through the 00:15:23.609 --> 00:15:27.329 extra hurdles to actually get access to the file system, it will be continuing 00:15:27.329 --> 00:15:29.049 to be worked on and hopefully stabilize. 00:15:29.589 --> 00:15:35.909 I just find it interesting how different this go-around is with bcachefs than butterfs. 00:15:36.689 --> 00:15:42.229 I think bcachefs has benefited from having somebody who's out there articulating 00:15:42.229 --> 00:15:46.809 the point of view and and if you will i'm sorry the story, 00:15:48.141 --> 00:15:52.481 Even today, if you go on our Linux, you will see a thread that is extremely 00:15:52.481 --> 00:15:57.221 critical of Kent and continues to push the whole narrative of Kent tried to 00:15:57.221 --> 00:16:00.321 push features during an RC window and he's a bad person. 00:16:01.341 --> 00:16:05.541 And it's really unfortunate because it's such a singular view in which you take 00:16:05.541 --> 00:16:08.421 one event and you dismiss a decade of contributions. 00:16:10.561 --> 00:16:15.961 And I think something like BcashFS would be actually a lot worse off right now 00:16:15.961 --> 00:16:18.001 if it weren't for Kent and his communication. 00:16:18.641 --> 00:16:21.281 And while so much of that has been a focus of criticism recently, 00:16:21.601 --> 00:16:26.481 I think if you look at what ButterFS went through and the damage to its brand 00:16:26.481 --> 00:16:31.141 and reputation, even now, even after six or so solid years of continuous improvements, 00:16:31.481 --> 00:16:35.981 its brand is such that people still don't trust it. And they still talk about, 00:16:36.081 --> 00:16:37.161 oh, I'm afraid I'm going to lose data. 00:16:37.621 --> 00:16:41.741 And I think in part it's because there hasn't been anybody out there that's 00:16:41.741 --> 00:16:45.821 a lead ButterFS developer articulating their point of view like Kent does. 00:16:46.701 --> 00:16:51.081 And if you're willing to focus in on the message from Kent and not get distracted 00:16:51.081 --> 00:16:56.341 by clickbaity headlines that tried to drive attention based on kernel drama, 00:16:56.561 --> 00:17:00.461 and you actually focus on the work, it's quite impressive what continues to happen over there. 00:17:00.581 --> 00:17:05.461 And Kent's actually pretty good at articulating that to his community on Reddit and his Patreon. 00:17:05.921 --> 00:17:09.481 And I think part of this is because he is an independent developer. 00:17:10.521 --> 00:17:14.001 So he doesn't have to go through a corporate PR communications, right? 00:17:14.001 --> 00:17:17.181 if Kent goes and talks to somebody about it he doesn't have to get it cleared 00:17:17.181 --> 00:17:23.281 first and so he's able to take direct response and direct action online and 00:17:23.281 --> 00:17:26.241 communicate directly and he's a good communicator and I think that's been criticized 00:17:26.241 --> 00:17:28.301 a lot lately but if you follow him and his community. 00:17:29.490 --> 00:17:33.990 He's very responsive and he's very clear and he's also upfront about what still 00:17:33.990 --> 00:17:38.190 doesn't work and what he's not, he's not blowing smoke. He's not hyping things up. 00:17:38.850 --> 00:17:42.010 I just think it's interesting and I wonder if you agree, Wes, 00:17:42.130 --> 00:17:46.650 that if Butterfess had had somebody that was communicating like Kent is now, 00:17:46.830 --> 00:17:50.890 if perhaps Butterfess's brand, if you will, or reputation maybe is a better 00:17:50.890 --> 00:17:52.490 way to go, would be in a different state. 00:17:53.650 --> 00:17:57.310 Yeah, that seems like a fairly plausible theory. I think Kent is doing a great 00:17:57.310 --> 00:18:01.550 job of being, you know, for folks willing to engage and ask for support of, 00:18:01.810 --> 00:18:05.010 you know, if you have a bug, he will, he will work with you to fix your file system. 00:18:05.230 --> 00:18:09.890 And that's probably goes a long way to getting people to actually try to use 00:18:09.890 --> 00:18:13.110 it for things, you know, knowing that you actually do have some support and 00:18:13.110 --> 00:18:17.550 it's a sort of identifiable human or team of people or whatever behind it that 00:18:17.550 --> 00:18:20.050 you can see consistently do that. 00:18:20.050 --> 00:18:25.610 Brent, I have a question for you. When it comes to defining a code creator being 00:18:25.610 --> 00:18:30.250 too toxic to be allowed in the Linux kernel, do you think it's more or less 00:18:30.250 --> 00:18:34.610 toxic to murder your wife than to criticize ButterFS? 00:18:35.170 --> 00:18:38.850 Well, one is related to the work that's being implemented into the kernel and 00:18:38.850 --> 00:18:42.430 the other isn't. So there's that way to look at it. 00:18:42.570 --> 00:18:47.430 I suppose I'm just saying we kept a murderer's file system in the Linux kernel 00:18:47.430 --> 00:18:49.530 for years after he was convicted of murdering his wife. 00:18:50.050 --> 00:18:52.850 I don't think that should be accepted in society in general, 00:18:52.870 --> 00:18:54.150 if that's really your question. 00:18:54.910 --> 00:18:58.430 I'm just pointing that out. As far as I know, Kent hasn't murdered his wife. 00:18:59.270 --> 00:19:02.310 But, you know, I don't know. Maybe Hans was great to work with on the list. 00:19:02.450 --> 00:19:03.710 Yeah. That's the thing. 00:19:03.830 --> 00:19:04.990 That's the closer to the issue. 00:19:05.130 --> 00:19:05.190 Right? 00:19:05.350 --> 00:19:08.690 Very polite on the mailing list. Even when Linus got nippy, he probably was 00:19:08.690 --> 00:19:09.830 still very polite about it. 00:19:10.150 --> 00:19:15.670 Yeah. But it's interesting that, like, the Linux kernel is one of the most successful 00:19:15.670 --> 00:19:17.310 open source projects in history. 00:19:19.924 --> 00:19:23.424 This kind of shows that it's not necessarily open to everyone, right? 00:19:23.524 --> 00:19:29.024 If you're creating friction in that, well, you might not have the opportunity 00:19:29.024 --> 00:19:32.664 to have your otherwise great code be implemented necessarily. 00:19:32.924 --> 00:19:35.404 As much as it's software, it's also a human endeavor. 00:19:35.404 --> 00:19:41.904 And speaking of benevolent dictators, Google has made it official. 00:19:41.904 --> 00:19:46.844 They are laying down plans to block the sideloading of unverified developers' 00:19:47.104 --> 00:19:50.304 apps starting next year in their Android operating system. 00:19:50.524 --> 00:19:55.224 It's big news, and I've probably been sent this link a dozen times this week, 00:19:55.264 --> 00:19:56.364 and I agree. It's a big story. 00:19:57.284 --> 00:20:02.884 So what they're calling them is unverified apps, which is basically every app 00:20:02.884 --> 00:20:07.064 that you sideload right now. And this is going to impact what are called certified 00:20:07.064 --> 00:20:11.084 Android devices, which is any device that gets any of the Play stuff. 00:20:11.644 --> 00:20:15.084 And so developers who distribute apps outside the Play Store will have to start 00:20:15.084 --> 00:20:20.724 verifying their identity through a new Android developer console that Google is currently building. 00:20:21.424 --> 00:20:24.604 So you can think of it as equivalent to the Google Play console that exists 00:20:24.604 --> 00:20:26.384 for Play Store developers right now. 00:20:26.664 --> 00:20:31.304 But now they're making something they say will be more streamlined for verification. 00:20:31.304 --> 00:20:34.384 So don't worry, it's going to be streamlined, but it'll let you now, 00:20:34.524 --> 00:20:38.304 they're going to let you now publish outside the Play Store if you go through 00:20:38.304 --> 00:20:39.684 this new console that they're building. 00:20:40.024 --> 00:20:43.124 Yeah, it's right there in the name, isn't it? Android developer console. 00:20:43.344 --> 00:20:45.504 They're responsible for all of Android. 00:20:45.784 --> 00:20:49.784 And they will ask you things like your legal name, your address, 00:20:49.964 --> 00:20:53.344 your email, and your phone number, just so that way they can, 00:20:53.604 --> 00:20:55.784 you can have an APK that users can sideload. 00:20:55.784 --> 00:21:03.964 So this starts in October of 2025, and then it goes to broad developer access in March of 2026. 00:21:04.324 --> 00:21:08.744 But the first user rollouts will be in Brazil, Indonesia, and Singapore and 00:21:08.744 --> 00:21:15.544 Thailand, and those start next year in September of 2026, and then go global to all users by 2027. 00:21:16.424 --> 00:21:20.964 So any Android with Google services, which is like basically all the ones sold 00:21:20.964 --> 00:21:23.204 in the West, will be impacted by this. 00:21:23.204 --> 00:21:30.324 And, of course, it is worth noting that this is likely Google's BS response 00:21:30.324 --> 00:21:33.084 to the courts ordering them to allow competing app stores. 00:21:33.684 --> 00:21:37.104 This is what they're going to do is they're essentially taking a page from Apple's 00:21:37.104 --> 00:21:40.644 playbook, and they're going to make it worse while complying with the courts. 00:21:41.664 --> 00:21:45.704 Because, you know, all of a sudden, side loading is this huge risk after all these years. 00:21:45.844 --> 00:21:50.184 We've got to clamp it down. Product VP Susan Faye said that in a recent analysis, 00:21:50.184 --> 00:21:55.524 they found 50 times more malware from Internet sideloaded sources than apps on Google Play. 00:21:55.704 --> 00:21:59.464 I just, is there really this like epidemic of people enabling sideloaded? 00:21:59.764 --> 00:22:01.804 So like most people don't even know that it's enough. 00:22:01.904 --> 00:22:04.124 And that statistic's like they probably scanned all of GitHub. 00:22:04.364 --> 00:22:04.524 Right. 00:22:04.724 --> 00:22:07.524 Every freaking fork of every legitimate thing. And then they compared it to 00:22:07.524 --> 00:22:09.424 like, you know, the 20,000 apps in the Play Store. 00:22:09.604 --> 00:22:09.844 Mm-hmm. 00:22:10.883 --> 00:22:14.043 Many people would also be totally fine with just making it harder to enable, 00:22:14.183 --> 00:22:16.843 put it behind the developer menu or, you know, like there's a fair options to 00:22:16.843 --> 00:22:20.063 make it like where I don't think my mom is going to just do that, 00:22:20.183 --> 00:22:23.943 even when instructed by a malicious actor, or at least has a lot of opportunity 00:22:23.943 --> 00:22:25.303 to second guess that decision. 00:22:25.543 --> 00:22:28.643 That seems like such a reasonable solution, Wes. How dare you? 00:22:29.003 --> 00:22:30.883 I know. I know. it's. 00:22:30.883 --> 00:22:36.483 This this is the worst like example of google no longer following don't be evil 00:22:36.483 --> 00:22:41.443 because it's a cynical response i believe it's a cynical response to what is 00:22:41.443 --> 00:22:44.163 a court order like well if we're going to have to do it we're going to do it 00:22:44.163 --> 00:22:46.763 this way and then they're going to accomplish a wider goal and say but look 00:22:46.763 --> 00:22:47.683 we're just doing what we're told. 00:22:47.683 --> 00:22:50.383 Yeah i mean and you can kind of you can kind of tell 00:22:50.383 --> 00:22:53.263 too right they they see the benefits that apple gets 00:22:53.263 --> 00:22:56.083 from its style of ecosystem i'm sure there's been many internally for 00:22:56.083 --> 00:22:58.803 years who've sort of wondered well maybe is that strategy we should 00:22:58.803 --> 00:23:02.063 be doing and i just think you know i was 00:23:02.063 --> 00:23:05.403 just recommending to someone who was you know they wanted 00:23:05.403 --> 00:23:08.323 to watch youtube but they did not like what they were getting from the algorithm 00:23:08.323 --> 00:23:11.803 and i was like oh there's here's some apps that you can use those are probably 00:23:11.803 --> 00:23:14.123 exactly the kind of thing that maybe even if they don't you know maybe they 00:23:14.123 --> 00:23:18.103 violated terms of service but not the law but if you know if google is not incentivized 00:23:18.103 --> 00:23:23.743 to like them will they stop showing up as something regular people can even try to use it. 00:23:23.743 --> 00:23:28.123 Uh to me it feels like for years and years now well basically since the start 00:23:28.123 --> 00:23:34.983 of android we've all for those of us who really value the privacy side of things 00:23:34.983 --> 00:23:39.383 and the ability to modify the software that's running on your own you know purchased phone, 00:23:40.183 --> 00:23:43.303 we kind of knew this was a possibility at 00:23:43.303 --> 00:23:46.923 least i did and yet maybe it's 00:23:46.923 --> 00:23:50.043 arguable that we haven't done enough to give ourselves great 00:23:50.043 --> 00:23:52.883 options when this would come to 00:23:52.883 --> 00:23:55.843 pass which sounds like we're there we got 00:23:55.843 --> 00:23:58.863 what a year to go so this feels 00:23:58.863 --> 00:24:01.763 like a huge loss in terms of what is 00:24:01.763 --> 00:24:04.483 possible for us to do with our 00:24:04.483 --> 00:24:07.103 own software on our own phones in the future and i 00:24:07.103 --> 00:24:12.223 hope somehow those of us who are smart enough to be able to write software that 00:24:12.223 --> 00:24:19.643 can push on this little decision that uh that we get there i uh feel like that's 00:24:19.643 --> 00:24:23.743 a super important thing from a privacy and also software freedom perspective 00:24:23.743 --> 00:24:26.583 so we could have done better here we are. 00:24:26.583 --> 00:24:28.543 Yeah we should have known better. 00:24:28.543 --> 00:24:32.663 As as jeff says um as much as this makes me angry i'm not that worried as long 00:24:32.663 --> 00:24:36.043 as we can still get rude or roms one way or another and it is worth pointing 00:24:36.043 --> 00:24:39.683 out does seem like you know us graphene folks this won't really impact in the 00:24:39.683 --> 00:24:42.923 same way uh so i think there is still an element of that, 00:24:44.571 --> 00:24:51.091 I'd kind of just worry about the ordinary folks using the platform, 00:24:51.091 --> 00:24:52.571 even if they would never use this. 00:24:53.411 --> 00:24:59.291 It makes things like F-Droid and Obtainium on stock Android perhaps unusable 00:24:59.291 --> 00:25:00.611 and untenable for some developers. 00:25:00.611 --> 00:25:03.431 Or at least a very different experience. And that's where I think it's like, 00:25:03.531 --> 00:25:07.951 okay, even if this first version isn't the world falling apart for Android, 00:25:07.951 --> 00:25:14.311 the philosophy and the change in that and not sort of respecting that at the root is very worrying. 00:25:14.311 --> 00:25:17.891 But the trend is not our friend here. I mean, our previous story that was also 00:25:17.891 --> 00:25:22.311 a step backwards was the news that they've removed pixel device tree drivers 00:25:22.311 --> 00:25:26.031 or whatever it is from the upstream Android source code. 00:25:26.591 --> 00:25:30.871 And so it makes projects like Graphene OS and others more difficult. 00:25:31.191 --> 00:25:37.311 And so these things are in isolation kind of bad. But when you put them all 00:25:37.311 --> 00:25:39.511 together, it starts to paint a picture that's real bad. 00:25:40.091 --> 00:25:43.651 And you worry about the long-term viability of things like Graphene OS. 00:25:44.311 --> 00:25:47.371 Would any of us be shocked to learn that the Pixel 10 is the last one that you 00:25:47.371 --> 00:25:48.551 can ever run Graphene OS on? 00:25:49.031 --> 00:25:52.931 I wouldn't be. And I know the project's concerned about enough that they've 00:25:52.931 --> 00:25:56.791 been trying to work with a hardware OEM to add the hardware support they need 00:25:56.791 --> 00:26:02.191 so that way an existing hardware OEM could enable Graphene OS support. 00:26:02.871 --> 00:26:05.391 Please let it be Motorola. I would love a Motorola flip. 00:26:06.411 --> 00:26:08.171 I'm also a little bored with the Pixel hardware. 00:26:08.571 --> 00:26:11.551 This also kind of sucks in the middle ground too. I was just thinking like, 00:26:11.671 --> 00:26:15.891 okay, you still can use Graphene, But if more things use play integrity and 00:26:15.891 --> 00:26:17.491 stuff, there's already kind of this like, 00:26:17.691 --> 00:26:20.651 well, if there's a certain set of core apps that you have to have, 00:26:20.691 --> 00:26:26.571 you might be forced to be on either iOS or upstream Google, Android. 00:26:27.351 --> 00:26:31.491 Then now if you can't load the other apps that you actually want, that's rough. 00:26:31.751 --> 00:26:37.311 This to me also seems like it's a trend that continues as long as Apple gets 00:26:37.311 --> 00:26:38.291 away with this type of stuff. 00:26:38.471 --> 00:26:41.431 Because Apple, what happens is, 00:26:42.499 --> 00:26:48.099 Oddly and grossly enough, Google's incentives are to align with Apple because 00:26:48.099 --> 00:26:50.359 then they get more control and they set a standard. 00:26:50.539 --> 00:26:53.599 They're the Coke and Pepsi of smartphones in the United States and in the West. 00:26:54.259 --> 00:26:57.819 And if Google says, actually, we've done research and we concur with Apple's 00:26:57.819 --> 00:27:00.299 position here, side loading is dangerous. 00:27:00.579 --> 00:27:05.399 That strengthens both their positions. Google has no incentive to fight this. 00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:10.839 And so I think they trend towards Apple's walled garden over time. 00:27:11.879 --> 00:27:17.059 That's my main concern. And if that happens, then why not just get iOS and use 00:27:17.059 --> 00:27:22.319 that fancy iCloud privacy mode that they have and just say screw it? 00:27:22.539 --> 00:27:23.619 It's really disappointing. 00:27:23.859 --> 00:27:26.319 I don't like this trend at all. 00:27:26.739 --> 00:27:29.579 And it seems to me that we're watching 00:27:29.579 --> 00:27:34.399 Android drift more towards the iOS experience over time. Do you agree? 00:27:34.759 --> 00:27:41.999 I think I would agree. i'm wondering if for a moment maybe we can try to find 00:27:41.999 --> 00:27:46.359 some kind of positive in this decision is there a positive for end users like 00:27:46.359 --> 00:27:52.159 are there is this an actual problem is this good for somebody other than google. 00:27:52.159 --> 00:27:53.559 I mean there probably. 00:27:53.559 --> 00:27:54.639 Is a some slight. 00:27:54.639 --> 00:27:58.979 Security benefit maybe sure you could make the same argument about windows you 00:27:58.979 --> 00:28:01.459 know if microsoft would have done this in the windows xp day, 00:28:01.679 --> 00:28:05.739 you probably would have had less people get malware and crap on Windows XP. 00:28:06.459 --> 00:28:10.919 But Microsoft chose to keep it an open platform and let people install their own applications. 00:28:11.199 --> 00:28:14.719 Because it does, right? It means at least like, okay, if they do find malware 00:28:14.719 --> 00:28:18.959 from a developer, they can then immediately filter out anything else that developers 00:28:18.959 --> 00:28:19.999 made or things like that. 00:28:20.099 --> 00:28:25.719 So in cases of breaches of trust or bad faith developers, that is a new option. 00:28:26.539 --> 00:28:30.599 Okay, I want to bounce this to you guys. And also, I'd say I'm bouncing this to the audience. 00:28:31.519 --> 00:28:35.039 So if you have an opinion and looking for an excuse to support the road trip, 00:28:35.239 --> 00:28:37.999 why is Google rolling this out to the smaller markets first? 00:28:38.439 --> 00:28:39.799 What is the reason there? 00:28:41.046 --> 00:28:42.986 Why not roll it out to the West first? 00:28:43.206 --> 00:28:45.486 Well, it's not even small. I mean, maybe smaller monetary, but it's, 00:28:45.586 --> 00:28:47.586 I mean, by people, it's got to be a lot. 00:28:47.706 --> 00:28:47.846 Yeah. 00:28:48.246 --> 00:28:49.646 Right? I mean, Brazil and Indonesia. 00:28:50.006 --> 00:28:53.666 Yeah. Yeah. I guess so. Yeah. I mean, smaller, I meant an economic size, but yeah. 00:28:54.446 --> 00:28:57.826 You think it's, I just wonder, is it because if things go wrong, 00:28:57.986 --> 00:29:00.386 it'll get less attention in the West? 00:29:00.586 --> 00:29:04.086 I just, what would be the reason for that? I just don't really understand why. 00:29:04.086 --> 00:29:07.746 Is this somewhere where they've seen more malware or more security implications? 00:29:07.926 --> 00:29:10.806 Do they think that culturally it'll be more accepted there? I have no idea. 00:29:11.046 --> 00:29:16.106 Shape some sort of legal precedent first doing it this way? I don't know. 00:29:16.806 --> 00:29:20.226 It's interesting that they don't roll this out everywhere at the same time, 00:29:20.246 --> 00:29:22.746 and it makes me wonder if they're hesitating about the decision. 00:29:23.706 --> 00:29:29.446 Why would you not roll it out? You can still do it in phases, but worldwide. 00:29:29.706 --> 00:29:31.726 So it's interesting to choose certain markets. 00:29:32.186 --> 00:29:38.106 I think the biggest takeaway, red flag here, is the community this impacts the 00:29:38.106 --> 00:29:39.386 most is free software developers. 00:29:39.826 --> 00:29:44.026 Free software developers that don't want a KYC just to publish an Android app. 00:29:44.766 --> 00:29:49.566 Imagine if the three of us used an APK for doing the show, like you put together 00:29:49.566 --> 00:29:53.006 some tiny APK that does automations for us. We would now. 00:29:53.126 --> 00:29:55.026 Now I have to go register and make an account. 00:29:55.146 --> 00:29:57.266 Yeah. And you're on Google's, you're on Google's map now. 00:29:57.446 --> 00:30:00.546 Even if you just wanted to use Obtainium to fetch it from the GitHub that I 00:30:00.546 --> 00:30:01.366 published as open source. 00:30:01.526 --> 00:30:06.026 That sucks. And it fundamentally changes the value proposition of Android because 00:30:06.026 --> 00:30:09.726 it was the, it was, this is going to be a huge deal in businesses, 00:30:10.106 --> 00:30:14.326 small businesses and medium and large businesses have vendors or create their 00:30:14.326 --> 00:30:16.266 own internal APKs all the time. 00:30:16.426 --> 00:30:18.366 That's one of the reasons why Android was a little bit more successful, 00:30:18.366 --> 00:30:19.706 like on manufacturing floors. 00:30:21.006 --> 00:30:25.146 That deal just got changed on you. Surprise, surprise. So like this is the user 00:30:25.146 --> 00:30:28.226 base that gets impacted the most. It's free software and those types of users. 00:30:28.746 --> 00:30:34.386 And it stinks because in another five years, Google could slap a $25 fee on 00:30:34.386 --> 00:30:37.486 there or they could say no for some reason. 00:30:38.186 --> 00:30:42.526 And they in the press release, they talk about one of the reasons they want 00:30:42.526 --> 00:30:45.766 to do this is they want to be able to turn these apps off. 00:30:46.266 --> 00:30:50.106 So if one of them turns out, God forbid, think of the children. 00:30:50.106 --> 00:30:53.026 if one of them turns out that there's an apk out 00:30:53.026 --> 00:30:55.686 there that goes malicious even if you didn't get through the 00:30:55.686 --> 00:30:58.886 play store the core benefit that google gets they can 00:30:58.886 --> 00:31:04.346 still turn it off because they can revoke its cert and when the os runs the 00:31:04.346 --> 00:31:07.966 app now it's checking to see if it has valid certs for all these apps and its 00:31:07.966 --> 00:31:12.346 certification check will fail so your os will refuse to launch the application 00:31:12.346 --> 00:31:15.726 you asked it to because somebody at google hq turned it off. 00:31:15.726 --> 00:31:17.946 Just gross that is bonkers. 00:31:20.412 --> 00:31:21.252 That's where we're at now. 00:31:21.432 --> 00:31:28.372 It gets me questioning whether some smaller open source projects who have chosen 00:31:28.372 --> 00:31:33.172 maybe not to be a part of this larger Google ecosystem at this point, 00:31:33.392 --> 00:31:38.192 if they'll just find a huge, massive drop in users and maybe the project can't 00:31:38.192 --> 00:31:43.092 continue because of these changes, that would be quite a sad thing for these 00:31:43.092 --> 00:31:45.332 smaller projects that many of us rely on. 00:31:45.332 --> 00:31:49.232 This is one of those Google changes where GrapheneOS users and other, 00:31:49.472 --> 00:31:53.872 I think GrapheneOS in particular, because on GrapheneOS, you can still have 00:31:53.872 --> 00:31:58.192 the Google Play services, but they're sandboxed and they run at user level privileges. 00:31:58.532 --> 00:32:02.292 So here we kind of, we get the best of both worlds for once. 00:32:02.492 --> 00:32:04.392 We're not getting something really taken away from us. 00:32:04.652 --> 00:32:08.632 And this doesn't minimize the viability of GrapheneOS. I think this makes GrapheneOS more viable. 00:32:08.632 --> 00:32:12.832 like if you're a small business and you want to get a generic Android device 00:32:12.832 --> 00:32:17.172 like a Pixel and you want something you can publish your own APKs on well maybe 00:32:17.172 --> 00:32:21.152 the solution now is just deploy Graphene OS on there and then install the couple of play apps you do need. 00:32:21.152 --> 00:32:24.272 I would love to see that especially if we get some sort of critical mass to 00:32:24.272 --> 00:32:27.632 be able to pressure some apps to watch what they do with the integrity stuff. 00:32:31.312 --> 00:32:35.792 1password.com slash unplug take the first step to better security for your team 00:32:35.792 --> 00:32:41.172 by securing credentials and protecting every application, even unmanaged shadow IT. 00:32:41.472 --> 00:32:47.932 That's 1Password, the number 1Password.com slash unplugged. And it's all lowercase. 00:32:48.192 --> 00:32:52.272 Go learn more at 1Password.com slash unplugged and support the show. 00:32:52.572 --> 00:32:54.372 Here's something I can really connect with. 00:32:54.912 --> 00:32:58.672 And if you're in IT or if you're in security specifically, you probably can too. 00:32:58.992 --> 00:33:02.992 The reality is there's a mountain of devices out there and more and more SaaS 00:33:02.992 --> 00:33:07.352 applications all the time. And that creates a mountain of security risk. 00:33:07.612 --> 00:33:10.712 The reality is that's getting harder and harder to deal with. 00:33:11.772 --> 00:33:16.512 Unless you check out 1Password Extended Access Management. That can help you 00:33:16.512 --> 00:33:19.532 conquer the mountain of security risks that are coming at us all the time. 00:33:20.292 --> 00:33:24.312 When surveyed, over a half of IT pros say that securing their SaaS apps is the 00:33:24.312 --> 00:33:27.072 biggest challenge, specifically for the reasons I just outlined. 00:33:27.752 --> 00:33:34.252 Well, Trellica by 1Password can discover and secure access to your apps, managed or not. 00:33:34.412 --> 00:33:39.472 It inventories every app in use at your company. It has pre-populated app profiles 00:33:39.472 --> 00:33:42.112 that know where to assess and what to look at for different SaaS risks. 00:33:42.252 --> 00:33:47.672 And it lets you manage access, optimize spend, and even enforce best practices 00:33:47.672 --> 00:33:50.112 across every app your employees use. 00:33:50.212 --> 00:33:54.372 So you can manage the shadow IT stuff, which is something I used to struggle with so much. 00:33:54.492 --> 00:33:59.892 You can securely onboard and off-board employees, have a real process for that, 00:33:59.992 --> 00:34:01.432 and meet compliance goals. 00:34:01.732 --> 00:34:06.872 That's what Trellica by OnePass provides, a complete solution for SaaS access governance. 00:34:07.352 --> 00:34:10.592 It's just one of the ways that extended access management helps teams strengthen 00:34:10.592 --> 00:34:12.412 compliance and security. 00:34:12.992 --> 00:34:18.132 I had so many clients over the years that I'd show up and they'd have passwords under their keyboard. 00:34:18.772 --> 00:34:23.792 And this was a big battle for many years, was helping users understand the risks 00:34:23.792 --> 00:34:26.832 of that and then getting them tooling to solve that problem. 00:34:27.072 --> 00:34:30.052 And of course, one password came in and beautifully provided that tooling. 00:34:30.272 --> 00:34:34.552 Well, we're in a new era now, and that's where Trelica and extended access management 00:34:34.552 --> 00:34:38.612 come in. So go take the first step to better security for your team by securing 00:34:38.612 --> 00:34:43.132 credentials and protecting every application, even the unmanaged shadow IT. 00:34:43.632 --> 00:34:49.092 Learn more at 1password.com slash unplugged. That's the number 1password.com 00:34:49.092 --> 00:34:51.032 slash unplugged, all lowercase. 00:34:51.232 --> 00:34:53.632 You check it out, they have more information, and it's a great way to support 00:34:53.632 --> 00:34:57.012 the show. Just go to 1password.com slash unplugged. 00:35:00.472 --> 00:35:05.112 Well that all being said in good linux unplugged fashion we've been doing well 00:35:05.112 --> 00:35:09.232 wes mostly has been doing crazy things with his android phone just to prove 00:35:09.232 --> 00:35:15.452 i don't know that you can maybe it's your last chance wes what the hell have you been doing what's. 00:35:15.452 --> 00:35:16.972 Going on wes pain. 00:35:16.972 --> 00:35:20.012 Well hey i don't want to throw chris under the bus here because we've both been 00:35:20.012 --> 00:35:26.152 mucking around with it um but We sort of remembered that Android has that Linux terminal now. 00:35:26.472 --> 00:35:30.192 And we did maybe mention it on the show or play with it a tiny bit, but... 00:35:30.666 --> 00:35:34.706 All I had seen is that, oh, Graphene offers it now. I'll install it. 00:35:34.886 --> 00:35:37.966 And then I saw it was a Debian VM, essentially. 00:35:38.306 --> 00:35:41.686 And, oh, yes, I can install Nix in it. And then I didn't really kind of mess with it after that. 00:35:41.866 --> 00:35:46.046 But we thought there's got to be, you know, more we can do with a full, 00:35:46.426 --> 00:35:47.586 proper Linux environment. 00:35:47.786 --> 00:35:53.386 Yeah, who needs their damn Play Store? Who needs their Play API and their authorized apps? 00:35:53.746 --> 00:35:56.346 This probably is something we should have tried earlier, honestly, 00:35:56.486 --> 00:35:58.166 because it's been around since Android 15. 00:35:58.166 --> 00:36:00.726 Yeah, they started plumbing up at least the early bits. 00:36:00.866 --> 00:36:01.766 Yeah, and then it was like a little 00:36:01.766 --> 00:36:05.306 bit later, they had a graphical Linux application, so there's actually... 00:36:05.306 --> 00:36:09.406 I think that's still pending, too. Like, that's, and you need kind of bleeding-edge 16 builds for that. 00:36:09.406 --> 00:36:12.926 And you're going to need Wayland apps for that, too, right? But I think it's 00:36:12.926 --> 00:36:16.086 kind of neat, because it turns your Android device into, potentially, 00:36:16.226 --> 00:36:18.626 a full developer machine. No laptop required. 00:36:18.886 --> 00:36:22.366 You can SSH into it from an existing machine, or bring it right up there on your screen. 00:36:23.026 --> 00:36:24.666 And then eventually play Doom, too. 00:36:24.666 --> 00:36:28.386 Well, the community reaction has been pretty big on this one. 00:36:28.726 --> 00:36:32.346 So finally, Androids can do real dev work. 00:36:32.566 --> 00:36:37.126 People are spinning up Node, Node.js on their phones of all places. 00:36:37.626 --> 00:36:38.046 Love it. 00:36:38.066 --> 00:36:42.446 But of course, there's a caution. Google has a history of kneecapping these 00:36:42.446 --> 00:36:44.146 community tools like Turmux. 00:36:44.346 --> 00:36:49.746 We've seen that. So some see this as a co-optation rather than some empowerment. 00:36:49.986 --> 00:36:51.366 And Wessel let us know how he felt. 00:36:51.966 --> 00:36:52.286 Drama. 00:36:52.286 --> 00:36:57.466 Privacy advocates though um they do worry this funnels developers into google 00:36:57.466 --> 00:37:04.386 controlled sandboxes and leaves um open source projects at a risk of being sidelined i. 00:37:04.386 --> 00:37:06.706 Guess it is technically a uh sandbox. 00:37:06.706 --> 00:37:11.086 I mean that is true yeah i mean it uses the android virtualization framework 00:37:11.086 --> 00:37:16.886 and then it uses um cross vm which is like a super security focused it basically 00:37:16.886 --> 00:37:20.466 takes the role of qemu when you run it on top of kvm it's the virtual machine 00:37:20.466 --> 00:37:24.926 manager or the vmm as they call it and it's the thing that sort of sets everything up and it, 00:37:25.589 --> 00:37:29.049 It's organized around safety first and foremost, as their docs say. 00:37:29.209 --> 00:37:33.429 So you can tell they are trying to get their sandboxing to be at least decent. 00:37:33.729 --> 00:37:35.829 I guess you could say that's Google trying to control things, 00:37:35.889 --> 00:37:37.809 but I think that's just good practices for something like this. 00:37:37.909 --> 00:37:41.729 Yeah, and it's a lot of how the rest of this framework is built to support that, 00:37:41.749 --> 00:37:45.069 and they've been using that tool. They've made it in-house and everything. 00:37:45.889 --> 00:37:49.669 Interestingly, though, as a result, what you actually see when you open this 00:37:49.669 --> 00:37:52.749 terminal app is it looks kind of like a regular terminal interface, 00:37:52.849 --> 00:37:55.369 right? You've got a couple tabs. You can make tabs up at the top, 00:37:55.469 --> 00:37:57.169 and then you get a basic terminal. 00:37:57.449 --> 00:38:01.149 Yeah, and if it's been a minute since you've run it, it even takes a bit to 00:38:01.149 --> 00:38:02.109 get everything started. 00:38:02.209 --> 00:38:02.869 Yeah, it boots it up. 00:38:02.949 --> 00:38:03.109 Yeah. 00:38:03.369 --> 00:38:04.769 That's actually a web terminal. 00:38:05.189 --> 00:38:05.569 What? 00:38:05.789 --> 00:38:10.629 Yeah. Uh-huh, that's a web terminal based on TTYD. So TTYD is running in the 00:38:10.629 --> 00:38:17.109 host, serving that, and then the app connects over HTTPS on port 7681, 00:38:17.369 --> 00:38:20.489 although I think it has a client certificate to authenticate to do that, 00:38:20.489 --> 00:38:23.849 and then it shows you the TTYD web terminal. 00:38:23.949 --> 00:38:25.569 Did you get it working in another web browser? 00:38:26.229 --> 00:38:30.369 No, I have not tried that as yet, but that's, I guess, how the plumbing works under the hood. 00:38:30.589 --> 00:38:33.289 That's cool because that would mean that, in theory, it would be pretty straightforward 00:38:33.289 --> 00:38:37.809 for another developer to come along and build a nicer wrapper around that, 00:38:37.949 --> 00:38:39.669 you know, a better, more powerful user terminal. 00:38:39.789 --> 00:38:41.869 Although it's not a bad terminal for a phone. 00:38:42.169 --> 00:38:45.649 Yeah, I do recommend using something that lets you do external input, 00:38:45.789 --> 00:38:48.049 like, how do you say it, Brent, our favorite tool? 00:38:48.289 --> 00:38:52.089 Is there a source copy? or screws for a screen. 00:38:52.089 --> 00:38:53.589 Copy i don't know screen. 00:38:53.589 --> 00:38:57.589 Screen copy why not just use kd connect guys you make it hard here just use kd connect. 00:38:57.589 --> 00:38:59.929 Well you get full like video mirroring too oh. 00:38:59.929 --> 00:39:00.389 You get video. 00:39:00.389 --> 00:39:02.369 Uh-huh oh you gotta try it. 00:39:02.369 --> 00:39:03.349 Yeah i do. 00:39:03.349 --> 00:39:05.349 You can just do like input control well. 00:39:05.349 --> 00:39:10.989 I didn't need it for what i was doing where i was going we didn't need roads 00:39:10.989 --> 00:39:13.289 but it's quaint that you got it working. 00:39:13.289 --> 00:39:17.549 Uh it is kind of interesting you get presented an ext4 root image um can we 00:39:17.549 --> 00:39:20.149 put bcashfs on i don't know i. 00:39:20.149 --> 00:39:22.889 Mean it's debian so you're gonna remember there's a little bit of a. 00:39:22.889 --> 00:39:25.809 Yeah you do you do have debian i guess there's also 00:39:25.809 --> 00:39:29.089 like it runs a debian service internally that 00:39:29.089 --> 00:39:31.909 talks over grpc and i think part of that is 00:39:31.909 --> 00:39:35.929 there's a they do have like a little demon running in user space it's like a 00:39:35.929 --> 00:39:40.809 helper and it watches for open ports and then it'll prompt you with what you 00:39:40.809 --> 00:39:43.449 want to do with those ports so it'll see apps like you can dynamically open 00:39:43.449 --> 00:39:46.709 a port or whatever you're running and then the interface will pop down with 00:39:46.709 --> 00:39:48.849 the notification asking if you want to prove it and there's like a little it'll 00:39:48.849 --> 00:39:51.009 bring you to a menu where you can toggle each port on and off. 00:39:51.049 --> 00:39:53.069 Yeah in the settings you can go in there and just see all of them listed. 00:39:53.269 --> 00:39:57.849 Now by default that just opens it listening on local host essentially yeah so 00:39:57.849 --> 00:40:02.029 then if you want to do that wider you have to find another app that can do the 00:40:02.029 --> 00:40:05.809 next layer of forwarding to make it actually public to like your local area network. 00:40:05.969 --> 00:40:13.009 Or use ADB on your machine and you can You can map ports using ADB to localhost 00:40:13.009 --> 00:40:14.089 and then just connect to it that way. 00:40:15.784 --> 00:40:18.604 Well, thanks. That's a really fascinating little breakdown of how it works under the hood, Wes. 00:40:19.644 --> 00:40:22.584 I want to hear about what you did, but I'll tell you about my short adventure 00:40:22.584 --> 00:40:24.604 before you get into your ridiculousness, because it's great. 00:40:25.584 --> 00:40:30.924 I decided, why not go all the way? And I found, I believe by a Chinese developer, 00:40:31.044 --> 00:40:35.404 which I'll link in the show notes, a really handy bash script that you download 00:40:35.404 --> 00:40:36.384 in your Android environment. 00:40:36.984 --> 00:40:42.404 And then inside the Linux shell in the Android terminal, it mounts your downloads 00:40:42.404 --> 00:40:44.184 folder to slash mount slash shared. 00:40:44.824 --> 00:40:49.504 And so you go into Mount Shared and you Chmod Plus X, this shell script that 00:40:49.504 --> 00:40:50.944 you just randomly downloaded from a stranger. 00:40:51.444 --> 00:40:55.444 But again, you're in a sandbox. Who really cares? So I run this script. 00:40:55.604 --> 00:40:58.744 And at first, it asks you for your language. The Chinese or English. And I say English. 00:40:59.284 --> 00:41:03.984 And then the next, it's a menu prompt system of what desktop environment would 00:41:03.984 --> 00:41:05.644 you like? And it has Plasma. 00:41:06.204 --> 00:41:10.024 Although, let me tell you, it's not like a minimal version of Plasma. 00:41:10.184 --> 00:41:13.984 It's the full Plasma goodness. So you better resize your disk image because 00:41:13.984 --> 00:41:15.284 it will fill that disk image. 00:41:15.924 --> 00:41:20.504 But it's also got Mate, LXQ, XFCE, which is what I went with. 00:41:20.864 --> 00:41:24.124 Yeah, worth calling out as you say that you can resize. I think it starts at 8 gig. 00:41:24.304 --> 00:41:27.324 There's a menu for that. And then you can also recover and wipe it from that 00:41:27.324 --> 00:41:29.544 same menu if you screw things up like I did several times. 00:41:29.664 --> 00:41:33.644 Yes, because the Plasma install was so long and I was barbecuing and things 00:41:33.644 --> 00:41:36.444 like that, I would walk away from the phone and I would come back. 00:41:36.444 --> 00:41:39.284 And it took longer than 30 minutes and the screen went to sleep because I had 00:41:39.284 --> 00:41:40.764 like caffeine running for 30 minutes. 00:41:41.464 --> 00:41:44.264 screen falls asleep and it kills the entire 00:41:44.264 --> 00:41:49.984 process also i once tabbed away to respond to a message and it killed the entire 00:41:49.984 --> 00:41:55.084 process and because i'm an idiot i was thinking oh well it's a container running 00:41:55.084 --> 00:41:59.684 as a service and this terminal is just a front end so if i swap away it'll continue 00:41:59.684 --> 00:42:03.284 to run in the container in the back in the back end it does not. 00:42:03.284 --> 00:42:07.484 You maybe want to tweak some of its settings because i've had not 100 success 00:42:07.484 --> 00:42:11.484 but i've had a lot of reasonable success with that of having to just run steady 00:42:11.484 --> 00:42:12.184 state in the background. 00:42:12.444 --> 00:42:16.104 Like I've been able to swap like if I'm at the command line and I'm not doing 00:42:16.104 --> 00:42:19.624 anything. I've been able to swap out and then like swipe back to the app and still use it. 00:42:19.804 --> 00:42:23.404 But if I'm in the middle, anytime in the middle of installing packages with 00:42:23.404 --> 00:42:28.744 apt and I swipe out and swipe back, every single time I come back and the app 00:42:28.744 --> 00:42:30.944 process has been killed and I'm just sitting back at the command line. 00:42:31.564 --> 00:42:35.044 I broke dpkg three separate times. 00:42:35.164 --> 00:42:40.624 I had to go in and do the whole configure repair three separate effing times 00:42:40.624 --> 00:42:42.784 because of this. So do be aware of that. 00:42:42.984 --> 00:42:44.224 But is that unusual? 00:42:44.584 --> 00:42:47.984 Feels brittle. Brent, it feels brittle. But the script continues. 00:42:48.104 --> 00:42:51.284 It asks you a few more questions like you need to set up the password for the 00:42:51.284 --> 00:42:57.344 Droid user and then you need to get ADB working on your local host and you can connect it over USB-C. 00:42:58.318 --> 00:43:03.858 And then when the script is done, it spins up a VNC server that's running the 00:43:03.858 --> 00:43:05.538 desktop environment of your choice on your phone. 00:43:05.618 --> 00:43:06.198 Oh, that's great. 00:43:06.358 --> 00:43:07.238 It is really cool. 00:43:07.558 --> 00:43:07.758 So bonkers. 00:43:08.038 --> 00:43:12.878 So this is like an alternative approach, not using the updated Wayland blessed 00:43:12.878 --> 00:43:15.978 path. This is like, well, we got Linux here, so we could just do VNC. 00:43:16.098 --> 00:43:19.658 It works right now. And because you're doing it over USB-C, the performance 00:43:19.658 --> 00:43:20.898 is great because it's local. 00:43:20.898 --> 00:43:26.818 the only requirement of course is you just when you plug in your phone make sure that you have, 00:43:27.538 --> 00:43:30.378 all your udev rules set up and that you have usb debugging and 00:43:30.378 --> 00:43:33.258 all that turned on on the pixel device itself or whatever device you're 00:43:33.258 --> 00:43:36.118 using and then you can run this on any 00:43:36.118 --> 00:43:41.278 android device that has the android terminal and you can get a little gui running 00:43:41.278 --> 00:43:47.078 inside vnc to have like a little private desktop session in there and it's all 00:43:47.078 --> 00:43:50.338 outside the play store other than the terminal app which comes with the phone 00:43:50.338 --> 00:43:54.018 so it felt it felt pretty neat i broke it so many times that it, 00:43:54.638 --> 00:43:57.918 ultimately i'm not going to use it and it felt more like a tech demo but i'd 00:43:57.918 --> 00:43:59.598 love to hear stories of people to get it working yeah. 00:43:59.598 --> 00:44:02.518 I think even in the earlier versions than we're playing with like you kind of 00:44:02.518 --> 00:44:05.278 had to assemble some of the vm config and pass it to it. 00:44:05.278 --> 00:44:09.778 That's gotten a lot easier really it's very simple now because they give you 00:44:09.778 --> 00:44:10.658 all the commands on the github. 00:44:10.658 --> 00:44:12.238 Sounds like mini mech you gave it a try. 00:44:12.238 --> 00:44:19.158 Well not on android in fact i bought um second-hand Chromebook just like a week 00:44:19.158 --> 00:44:23.618 ago and I wanted to test out that Linux container thing. 00:44:23.838 --> 00:44:27.298 By the way, there are some videos on YouTube. If it's the same kind, 00:44:27.558 --> 00:44:32.418 these are simple LXC containers and it's really interesting. 00:44:32.618 --> 00:44:38.098 So the base distribution is in fact Debian and you can install every kind of 00:44:38.098 --> 00:44:42.458 graphical applications and that will show up in the app menu of the Chromebook. 00:44:42.958 --> 00:44:46.958 And that works flawlessly. So I was pretty amazed. I was pretty amazed. 00:44:46.958 --> 00:44:50.318 Yeah, I have seen some speculation. Maybe this is sort of pre-planning as they 00:44:50.318 --> 00:44:51.778 move away from CrimOS and push 00:44:51.778 --> 00:44:54.778 more Android, then now they have this functionality there as well, right? 00:44:54.838 --> 00:44:59.158 That's exactly what this is. You, though, you, Wes, you did the right thing 00:44:59.158 --> 00:45:02.758 and pushed it way beyond anything's reasonable to the point of, 00:45:03.158 --> 00:45:04.618 I think it's actually almost hilarious. 00:45:05.478 --> 00:45:07.938 Tell us what you've done in your Android terminal. 00:45:08.178 --> 00:45:11.238 Well, you know, I heard about some of your apt problems and I thought... 00:45:12.043 --> 00:45:16.203 We really got to get you a better OS in there. And so I did some research to 00:45:16.203 --> 00:45:19.923 see if we could, in fact, get Nix OS in our Android terminal. 00:45:20.143 --> 00:45:25.403 And thanks to the brilliant work of MKG200001, we, in fact, can. 00:45:25.663 --> 00:45:27.943 You got Nix packages running inside the terminal? 00:45:27.943 --> 00:45:30.043 Not just, I mean, you can get Nix packages. It's so easy. 00:45:30.163 --> 00:45:30.883 Oh, you got Nix OS? 00:45:30.883 --> 00:45:31.803 This is Nix OS. 00:45:31.923 --> 00:45:32.663 Oh, my goodness! 00:45:32.943 --> 00:45:36.343 With a regular configuration.nix that you can do a rebuild switch. 00:45:36.763 --> 00:45:37.383 Oh, my. 00:45:37.723 --> 00:45:38.443 Well done, sir. 00:45:38.563 --> 00:45:41.543 And as a test, I am, in fact, running a Jellyfin server. 00:45:42.043 --> 00:45:46.123 that I can connect to with the Jellyfin app on my phone. And you can connect 00:45:46.123 --> 00:45:47.043 to over the land of people. 00:45:47.103 --> 00:45:50.683 So you get Jellyfin server running in the Linux terminal and the Jellyfin client, that's great. 00:45:50.743 --> 00:45:54.063 And it's just services.jellyfin.enabled equals true on the next side. 00:45:54.183 --> 00:45:57.363 And so I've pulled it up here on my machine. On my computer, 00:45:57.563 --> 00:46:06.463 in my web browser, I have Wes's IP, which how are you even getting an IP inside this sandbox? 00:46:06.463 --> 00:46:11.763 So it gets its own internal IP, but it's the double port for it, basically. 00:46:11.763 --> 00:46:14.683 so the app will forward it to local host and then i got another app 00:46:14.683 --> 00:46:17.823 off the play store that can do port forwarding to your local network 00:46:17.823 --> 00:46:22.603 and so then i set that up and so that means that means the phone is yeah it 00:46:22.603 --> 00:46:25.803 is it was pretty straightforward you can also i have um like if you have nebula 00:46:25.803 --> 00:46:30.663 or tailscale or netbird or whatever running inside that works great yeah uh 00:46:30.663 --> 00:46:34.363 even like before the ui would pop up it would connect to that under the hood 00:46:34.363 --> 00:46:36.883 and so i could just ssh in immediately from my laptop and. 00:46:36.883 --> 00:46:42.643 So then jellyfin was in the mesh network yeah that's good it's hilarious so 00:46:42.643 --> 00:46:44.483 you could watch it from your home tv off your android. 00:46:44.483 --> 00:46:47.443 I did that was another test oh that's. 00:46:47.443 --> 00:46:53.463 So cool all right so let's see so i'm going to try to play the big buck bunny video uh famous. 00:46:53.463 --> 00:46:55.783 I've got h top over here so we'll see you'll. 00:46:55.783 --> 00:46:58.403 See yeah i wonder if it does hard it probably doesn't do hardware decoding right 00:46:58.403 --> 00:47:02.343 so we're gonna see if it'll play in my web browser over the land off of the. 00:47:02.343 --> 00:47:06.603 No i Because I think we have like the Virgil style, some sort of virtualized, 00:47:06.623 --> 00:47:08.363 maybe Virgo GPU. I don't know. 00:47:08.443 --> 00:47:10.443 All right, let's see. Tell me what, okay, here we go. I'm hitting play. 00:47:12.249 --> 00:47:14.109 What's your resources look like? 00:47:14.149 --> 00:47:15.149 Looking pretty good so far. 00:47:15.309 --> 00:47:15.449 Really? 00:47:15.609 --> 00:47:17.729 Load average is still .08. 00:47:18.029 --> 00:47:19.189 What's your CPU usage? 00:47:19.429 --> 00:47:20.069 Not much. 00:47:20.429 --> 00:47:21.089 Really? Can I see? 00:47:21.169 --> 00:47:21.389 Yeah. 00:47:24.109 --> 00:47:24.909 Holy crap. 00:47:27.089 --> 00:47:30.809 It must just really just be streaming it over there. It isn't like whatever their MP4 was. 00:47:30.909 --> 00:47:31.569 Because the most. 00:47:31.729 --> 00:47:32.929 We should get a weird web end or something. 00:47:32.929 --> 00:47:36.349 You have one core that's like around 4% to 6% CPU. 00:47:36.769 --> 00:47:40.869 One core out of, sorry to take from, eight cores. so he's got he's got of course 00:47:40.869 --> 00:47:43.929 htop running on there right now and you can see all eight cores of the android 00:47:43.929 --> 00:47:48.689 device while i stream big buck bunny from his freaking nix os running inside 00:47:48.689 --> 00:47:50.569 the android terminal running jellyfin. 00:47:50.569 --> 00:47:54.869 You know what was really impressive about this setup is like they have some 00:47:54.869 --> 00:47:58.469 manual instructions but i think maybe some of that needed like you needed to 00:47:58.469 --> 00:48:02.609 have root because you had like use adb to copy stuff over to replace the stock 00:48:02.609 --> 00:48:08.929 image and stuff But they managed to set up a companion app that I just sideloaded. 00:48:09.149 --> 00:48:11.289 So, you know, that's super handy. 00:48:11.689 --> 00:48:14.669 That did pretty much all the work. Like you open the app, it would download 00:48:14.669 --> 00:48:17.989 their built image and then write it to the right spot. 00:48:18.149 --> 00:48:21.309 And then they would kind of similar, they would expose a script that you could run. 00:48:21.689 --> 00:48:26.289 And then that would do more work. And then, yeah. And then the next time you 00:48:26.289 --> 00:48:29.449 close and open the terminal, it booted into Nix OS. 00:48:29.749 --> 00:48:31.809 It was really easy. Yeah, you should try it. 00:48:31.869 --> 00:48:33.129 So we're going to put a link to that in the show notes. 00:48:33.129 --> 00:48:33.329 Absolutely. 00:48:33.509 --> 00:48:37.069 Okay. We should also put a link to that app you're using to do the port forwarding off of local host. 00:48:37.169 --> 00:48:37.389 Yes. 00:48:37.549 --> 00:48:43.089 That's really nice. This, to me, this makes me feel a little bit better, right? 00:48:43.569 --> 00:48:47.209 This makes me feel a little bit better about the Play Store changes for external 00:48:47.209 --> 00:48:50.389 apps because, or I should say the outside Play Store changes, 00:48:50.609 --> 00:48:52.869 because this is still something you're never going to be able to do. 00:48:52.949 --> 00:48:54.769 Well, maybe, but I don't think you could ever do this on iOS. 00:48:55.189 --> 00:48:56.009 Maybe you could, I don't know. 00:48:56.189 --> 00:48:59.369 You know, actually, even just when I was on the Debian side with Nix installed, I 00:48:59.369 --> 00:49:02.449 was updating a flake totally separate unrelated and 00:49:02.449 --> 00:49:06.649 I realized like I often leave in the a arch 64 support just because you know 00:49:06.649 --> 00:49:10.009 why not but I don't have a machine to test that except yeah now I totally do 00:49:10.009 --> 00:49:14.449 wait so like so instead of having to like do a cross compile on my machine I 00:49:14.449 --> 00:49:19.589 can just do nix builds on my phone to test just as like a smoke test of like does it build on them I. 00:49:19.589 --> 00:49:23.269 Love how casually too you're just like ssh into your phone all the time now and stuff and run it. 00:49:23.269 --> 00:49:25.609 Especially with the mesh it's just so it was so slick. 00:49:26.109 --> 00:49:27.229 That is really cool. 00:49:27.229 --> 00:49:28.529 It starts It's up on boot automatically. 00:49:28.769 --> 00:49:33.049 I kind of want that on my phone. We should set that up. That's pretty great. Well, so there you go. 00:49:33.329 --> 00:49:36.729 That didn't require any kind of verification or signing. We're going to have 00:49:36.729 --> 00:49:39.249 some great links in the show notes this week. 00:49:39.329 --> 00:49:43.569 So head over to linuxunplugged.com slash 630 to get stuff that we're talking 00:49:43.569 --> 00:49:47.229 about, including that bash script that's pretty much just answer the questions 00:49:47.229 --> 00:49:49.569 and let it run if you want to try getting that VNC environment going. 00:49:49.709 --> 00:49:50.609 Yeah, I got to try that one. 00:49:50.709 --> 00:49:51.429 Yeah, it's pretty fun. 00:49:54.644 --> 00:49:58.604 Unraid.net slash unplugged. Unleash your hardware, support the show, 00:49:58.724 --> 00:50:02.024 and check out Unraid at Unraid.net slash unplugged. 00:50:02.104 --> 00:50:06.224 They just wrapped up the big birthday stream. I checked it on it. It was awesome. 00:50:06.324 --> 00:50:08.724 Some really cool rigs people sent in. 00:50:08.944 --> 00:50:13.564 Unraid gives you the flexibility to take advantage of the hardware you have 00:50:13.564 --> 00:50:18.384 today, to build a NAS operating system powered by Linux for those that want 00:50:18.384 --> 00:50:23.244 control, flexibility, and efficiency in managing your data, deploying applications. 00:50:24.004 --> 00:50:28.044 Unraid lets you mix and match drives of any size, and you can build with no 00:50:28.044 --> 00:50:30.924 restrictions, and it supports all the file systems you might want. 00:50:31.104 --> 00:50:33.584 It has fantastic virtual machine 00:50:33.584 --> 00:50:36.724 and container support, and they're always cooking up something new. 00:50:36.784 --> 00:50:43.684 In fact, Unraid OS 7.2.0 Beta 2 launched just a few days ago. 00:50:44.644 --> 00:50:49.124 Really nice refresh to the web GUI. It's nice and fast and responsive. 00:50:50.064 --> 00:50:56.204 Also, you can now do a single sign-on via Unraid or was it OIDC? 00:50:57.304 --> 00:50:59.744 OIDC, I think, because I've never used it, but I can't remember. 00:51:00.124 --> 00:51:03.564 But I think with the bigger deal that's coming in the new 720 that people are 00:51:03.564 --> 00:51:09.404 really going to love to see is ZFS RAIDZ expansion one drive at a time. 00:51:09.844 --> 00:51:11.244 Of course, you've still got Extended 00:51:11.244 --> 00:51:18.164 2, 3, 4, NTFS, XFS, all of the file systems. Maybe not BcacheFS yet. 00:51:19.077 --> 00:51:21.617 But if ever got accepted into the kernel, they would support it because they're 00:51:21.617 --> 00:51:24.877 building on top of modern Linux kernels. 00:51:25.017 --> 00:51:28.637 They also have a built-in API for new tools that I saw some people talking about 00:51:28.637 --> 00:51:33.397 on X that look really cool, including new possibilities for apps and things like that. 00:51:33.537 --> 00:51:36.357 But the thing I want you to really take away about Unraid is it lets you get 00:51:36.357 --> 00:51:38.577 started today with the stuff you have. 00:51:38.657 --> 00:51:42.257 And you can start deploying within a few hours the things we talk about all 00:51:42.257 --> 00:51:43.177 the time here on the show. 00:51:43.337 --> 00:51:46.657 Inside containers, inside virtual machines, you can pass through hardware. 00:51:46.937 --> 00:51:50.617 I recently talked about Frigate. People are using Unraid for Frigate like crazy. 00:51:50.877 --> 00:51:54.177 You know you're always going to have the best virtual machine and container 00:51:54.177 --> 00:51:57.517 support possible with a ton of flexibility for the storage underneath. 00:51:58.017 --> 00:52:02.417 And recently, you know, within the last major release, they also built in wireless 00:52:02.417 --> 00:52:05.897 networking support. So if you're in a situation like me where you can't run 00:52:05.897 --> 00:52:10.477 Ethernet, they have support for that now right out of the box and a ton of great stuff. 00:52:11.017 --> 00:52:14.417 Unraid is always under active development and they have this great path where 00:52:14.417 --> 00:52:16.877 you can check it out. They have the betas and the RC process, 00:52:16.917 --> 00:52:18.897 so you can stay tuned and follow that process. 00:52:19.157 --> 00:52:22.737 And then they have incredibly active community where the people, 00:52:22.857 --> 00:52:24.277 if you have a problem, the people are there, man. 00:52:24.437 --> 00:52:28.377 They are there to help you. They are there to support you, work you through whatever it might be. 00:52:28.797 --> 00:52:32.797 That was one of my biggest surprise takeaways. Besides the amount of applications 00:52:32.797 --> 00:52:37.117 you can deploy, it's just how active and engaged the community is because it 00:52:37.117 --> 00:52:40.097 doesn't just, I mean, it's not just support, right? They're building things too. 00:52:40.877 --> 00:52:44.157 They're building a lot of things that make the Unraid experience even more enjoyable 00:52:44.157 --> 00:52:46.697 for power users. So it doesn't really matter your skill level, though. 00:52:46.897 --> 00:52:50.537 Just get started by going to unraid.net slash unplugged. You take it as far 00:52:50.537 --> 00:52:54.217 as you want. Just unleash the hardware you have with Unraid and support the show. 00:52:54.617 --> 00:52:56.917 Unraid.net slash unplugged. 00:53:00.240 --> 00:53:06.180 Well, we teased last week that there was one last bootleg promo membership and 00:53:06.180 --> 00:53:10.220 listener Woody got it. So congrats to Woody for grabbing that one. 00:53:11.520 --> 00:53:15.160 And that was the entirety of the membership set up. They love a deal. 00:53:15.640 --> 00:53:18.420 People love a deal. I understand. Thank you, though, Woody. 00:53:18.580 --> 00:53:23.000 Appreciate you. Hope you enjoy the bootleg. That's also an option to our new 00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:25.140 members as well as the ad-free version. 00:53:25.280 --> 00:53:28.520 It still has all the producer do's fine touches and lovin's. 00:53:29.120 --> 00:53:32.940 And there's the Jupiter.party membership, which gets you the supports for all 00:53:32.940 --> 00:53:37.580 the shows and gets you the bootlegs of the shows that have the bootlegs. 00:53:38.020 --> 00:53:39.300 It'll make sense once you see it. 00:53:40.500 --> 00:53:45.260 Now, we did get some listener feedback this week. Chris, you figured out how 00:53:45.260 --> 00:53:46.360 to pronounce this one, right? 00:53:46.860 --> 00:53:48.120 This is Poos Baboon. 00:53:48.560 --> 00:53:49.180 Poos Baboon. 00:53:49.700 --> 00:53:53.540 He sent some great feedback. He has been pushing Frigate, which I mentioned 00:53:53.540 --> 00:53:57.640 is the DVR system or NVR system I want to set up. He's been trying it on low-end 00:53:57.640 --> 00:54:01.460 hardware with a Coral, or without a Coral, I should say, and he's been making it work. 00:54:01.560 --> 00:54:05.800 But this is the key thing that I loved, is he says, check out the WANsView W7. 00:54:06.300 --> 00:54:09.460 You can put Thingio on there, we've talked about this before, 00:54:09.520 --> 00:54:15.460 which is an alternative ROM, and you get solid performance, low light visibility, low cost. 00:54:15.700 --> 00:54:17.540 I mean, that sounds nice. 00:54:18.280 --> 00:54:19.840 This thing, Wes, this thing's ridiculous. 00:54:20.940 --> 00:54:24.860 If you buy it directly from WANsView.com, $29.99 for this sucker. 00:54:26.260 --> 00:54:29.280 Oh, that's crazy. And then you can put, you can put a firmware on there that 00:54:29.280 --> 00:54:30.980 lets you do the RTSB streaming, all of that. 00:54:31.100 --> 00:54:34.980 So anyways, just want to say thank you to Baboon for sending that in. 00:54:35.020 --> 00:54:37.700 I'll put links to the goodies he mentioned in his email in the show notes. 00:54:38.700 --> 00:54:42.160 We also got a note from Sebastian here. Hey there. Last week, 00:54:42.240 --> 00:54:45.040 I finally got around to write a Thunderbird add-on. 00:54:45.520 --> 00:54:50.880 Its purpose is to be able to upload documents directly to a paperless NGX instance. 00:54:51.320 --> 00:54:55.600 And it might be something our dear self-hosted enthusiasts appreciate. 00:54:56.160 --> 00:54:58.320 Oh, cool. That's a great idea. 00:54:59.060 --> 00:55:02.580 Really good idea. I mean, how often do important documents and whatnot come 00:55:02.580 --> 00:55:03.780 in via email that you want to save? 00:55:04.440 --> 00:55:12.320 I really think both of you and me are the prime target market for paperless and GX. 00:55:12.620 --> 00:55:13.180 I agree. 00:55:13.700 --> 00:55:16.380 Look at Brent over there with his freaking mobile lifestyle. 00:55:16.880 --> 00:55:20.120 Yeah, who needs paper, right? I use it to start fires and that's actually I 00:55:20.120 --> 00:55:21.220 don't even use it to start fires. 00:55:21.980 --> 00:55:25.520 Paperless upload Thunderbird. We'll put a link to it. It's an add-on for Thunderbird. 00:55:25.620 --> 00:55:27.780 It lets you upload PDF attachments from your emails. 00:55:28.260 --> 00:55:32.200 It does local processing, no third-party servers, simple config to just set 00:55:32.200 --> 00:55:37.800 up your paperless NGX instance, and optional notifications. 00:55:38.580 --> 00:55:41.760 Seamless integration with Thunderbird's UI, and it's MIT as well. 00:55:42.500 --> 00:55:45.600 Well done. Thanks for sending that in. You know, Sebastian, we love it. 00:55:45.680 --> 00:55:47.760 If you make something like that, you build something like that, 00:55:48.480 --> 00:55:49.580 send it in. We'd love to see it. 00:55:55.008 --> 00:56:01.408 And we do have a batch of boosts to get to, and Quirrell94 comes in as our baller at 50,000 sats. 00:56:06.908 --> 00:56:11.108 My AlbiHub was down for a minute while I figured out what was wrong. 00:56:11.468 --> 00:56:13.888 Here's a boost for all the great information you produce. 00:56:16.308 --> 00:56:21.008 Thank you, and coming in kind of last minute, too, helping bring up the average 00:56:21.008 --> 00:56:22.608 on this episode in a big way. 00:56:23.148 --> 00:56:26.848 Thank you there, Karel94. Appreciate that baller boost. 00:56:27.328 --> 00:56:31.088 The dude abides boosts in with 42,000 sats. 00:56:31.168 --> 00:56:32.628 Hey, isn't that the answer to everything? 00:56:35.348 --> 00:56:38.728 Hey, I realized it's been a month since I last boosted. 00:56:39.388 --> 00:56:42.828 Regarding the low boost amounts, I believe it's because of summer vacations. 00:56:42.948 --> 00:56:44.328 At least, that was my case. 00:56:44.408 --> 00:56:47.248 You know what they say. Summertime, it's fun time. 00:56:47.548 --> 00:56:52.268 It's also very hard to keep up when kids are home 24-7, as I'm sure Chris can relate. 00:56:52.268 --> 00:56:56.848 Let me tell you, buddy. Boy, can I. Should have seen me trying to set up this, 00:56:57.088 --> 00:57:00.048 run this bash script on my Android device while I'm just trying to like, 00:57:00.108 --> 00:57:02.808 you know, talk to kids and feed kids. And oh my God, it was a disaster. 00:57:03.648 --> 00:57:06.428 As for the BcashFS drama, I think I agree with you. 00:57:06.988 --> 00:57:10.448 In the end, it's the users that lose. As far as I understand, 00:57:10.748 --> 00:57:13.948 all the talks have been made through the mailing list and various blog posts, right? 00:57:14.428 --> 00:57:17.768 If it were me, I'd schedule at least a video chat or even better, 00:57:17.988 --> 00:57:21.748 try and meet in real life. I'm sure they could figure things out while drinking a beer. 00:57:22.268 --> 00:57:26.028 Oh man, no kidding. If this had gone down at an in-person event, 00:57:26.028 --> 00:57:31.628 it would have taken 25 minutes and we'd have BcacheFS as stable in the kernel with this next release. 00:57:32.768 --> 00:57:33.948 Let that sink in. 00:57:34.268 --> 00:57:37.628 That actually kind of feels like it hurts just a little bit. 00:57:37.928 --> 00:57:41.168 Great point, the dude abides. Appreciate that boost. Good to hear from you. Missed you. 00:57:41.408 --> 00:57:42.128 Excellent abiding. 00:57:43.068 --> 00:57:49.948 Well, Distro Stew boosted in, what is this, a row of sticks? 11,111 sets. 00:57:52.017 --> 00:57:55.957 My Nix configs started from a template I found online, many hosts, 00:57:56.237 --> 00:57:58.737 but all sharing a single flake.lock. 00:57:58.977 --> 00:58:02.017 This seems like common practice when I look at other people's setups, 00:58:02.237 --> 00:58:04.257 but why do you think that is? 00:58:04.757 --> 00:58:08.177 This effectively means that when I update the package versions on one machine, 00:58:08.377 --> 00:58:10.017 I'll do the rest of the machines too. 00:58:10.177 --> 00:58:15.737 I don't really want this, so I'm going to rework my setup, but am I missing something here? 00:58:16.337 --> 00:58:21.337 Well, one of the plus sides and sometimes negative sides of Nix is there's a 00:58:21.337 --> 00:58:25.337 thousand ways to do things and you kind of get to decide the structure yourself. 00:58:25.337 --> 00:58:28.137 That is where things like those templates come in pretty handy to get you a 00:58:28.137 --> 00:58:29.097 structure out of the box. 00:58:29.297 --> 00:58:34.117 But it does mean the template imposes its own thoughts on how much that matters to their setup. 00:58:34.377 --> 00:58:37.737 I think for some people, you know, especially maybe on the stable channels, 00:58:38.157 --> 00:58:41.297 those kinds of, you know, suddenly you're updating everywhere. 00:58:41.857 --> 00:58:44.977 Sometimes it might be a big deal. Sometimes it might not be a big deal. you do 00:58:44.977 --> 00:58:47.977 have some flexibility i think you could definitely have more nix 00:58:47.977 --> 00:58:51.057 packages inputs if you wanted like you could have different ones 00:58:51.057 --> 00:58:53.737 for different machines that you pass through that they use instead of 00:58:53.737 --> 00:58:57.157 all being using the same sharing the same input you could 00:58:57.157 --> 00:59:00.197 also do something with you know git where you 00:59:00.197 --> 00:59:04.157 you know you don't necessarily have to follow all all of the updates or you 00:59:04.157 --> 00:59:07.997 can maintain separate branches or stuff you can also have indirect flakes like 00:59:07.997 --> 00:59:12.437 i have a single flake that i use just to pin stuff that i sort of want to keep 00:59:12.437 --> 00:59:15.397 shared between a common set of projects and I don't put all projects on that 00:59:15.397 --> 00:59:17.397 pin so it's like one more layer of indirection. 00:59:17.817 --> 00:59:21.937 So there's a few different options or you can just split more things up. 00:59:22.357 --> 00:59:26.697 Also with NixOS configurations in particular, you can also move some of your 00:59:26.697 --> 00:59:30.857 stuff into their own modules and then that's a little easier to sort of share 00:59:30.857 --> 00:59:32.637 and pass between multiple flakes. 00:59:33.397 --> 00:59:36.077 I don't know, that's a long Nix ramble, so hopefully any of that's helpful. 00:59:36.217 --> 00:59:38.317 But I'm curious where to go and thank you for sharing your link. 00:59:38.317 --> 00:59:40.437 I always love taking a look at NixConfig links. 00:59:40.677 --> 00:59:47.817 Yeah, thank you Distro Stu. Good to hear from you. Superior's Tom comes in with 3,333 sets. 00:59:50.581 --> 00:59:54.081 He said, Flameshot is the way to go for screenshots. I typically use Spectacle 00:59:54.081 --> 00:59:57.221 on KDE, but Flameshot works great on everything else. Even Windows. 00:59:57.481 --> 00:59:58.461 Oh, I didn't know that. 00:59:58.661 --> 01:00:02.401 I didn't know Flameshot was still around. I think I remember using it, 01:00:02.461 --> 01:00:05.761 but feeling like it had a lot of buttons. It's got a lot. 01:00:05.761 --> 01:00:06.941 There's a lot of functionality. 01:00:07.181 --> 01:00:13.121 A lot of buttons. And I want to draw a box. I want to go to my clipboard. 01:00:13.941 --> 01:00:19.861 That is the only functionality I want. Ideally, it's a PNG. I can live with a JPUG or even a WebP. 01:00:19.861 --> 01:00:23.481 I don't know if you saw a Hyper Shot? 01:00:24.081 --> 01:00:24.401 Yes. 01:00:24.581 --> 01:00:25.161 Have you tried that one? 01:00:25.161 --> 01:00:25.981 From Sending by the Matrix. 01:00:26.181 --> 01:00:26.581 Uh-huh. 01:00:27.401 --> 01:00:30.161 I think that might be the one I go with. I have not yet tried it. 01:00:30.501 --> 01:00:33.281 But, because, you know, I got to play around with, like, my buying key options. 01:00:33.441 --> 01:00:35.321 Because I think I might want one that's, like, a full screenshot. 01:00:36.121 --> 01:00:37.961 And then one that's just, you know, check a box. 01:00:38.301 --> 01:00:40.341 You mean you haven't vibed that in yet? 01:00:40.401 --> 01:00:43.321 No. Although I've made a lot of updates to the Hyper Vibe setup. 01:00:43.501 --> 01:00:46.181 Including a total re-kind of tooling of the way things work. 01:00:47.281 --> 01:00:51.101 So, Superius Tom, I appreciate that. I might use Flameshot until I really lock 01:00:51.101 --> 01:00:52.461 it down, and then maybe I'll just end up keeping using it. 01:00:52.481 --> 01:00:54.961 You know, maybe you should turn your Vibe setup over onto Distress Juice. 01:00:55.221 --> 01:00:56.601 I know. You'd probably have. 01:00:56.621 --> 01:00:57.061 Muck it up for him. 01:00:57.161 --> 01:00:58.861 I think so. I'm down for that. 01:00:59.901 --> 01:01:03.981 Free KVH comes in with 16,944 cents. 01:01:06.061 --> 01:01:11.141 But I can boost the bootleg feed. Ah, yeah, yeah. This is in response to us 01:01:11.141 --> 01:01:13.981 talking about other folks not being able to boost the bootleg feed. 01:01:14.081 --> 01:01:18.781 And Cast-O-Matic is delightfully, has a great implementation that lets you do this. 01:01:19.081 --> 01:01:23.321 because they check the feed itself directly and are not totally relying on the podcast index API. 01:01:23.561 --> 01:01:28.341 Right. Castomatic uses the feed as a source of truth, whereas Fountain is using 01:01:28.341 --> 01:01:32.941 the index API, and because it's a private feed, there is no index API answer. 01:01:33.421 --> 01:01:36.521 But whereas Castomatic can just read, it's right there in the RSS feed. 01:01:36.741 --> 01:01:39.241 That's what Fountain would have to do, is they'd have to implement reading it 01:01:39.241 --> 01:01:40.401 right there from the XML. 01:01:40.741 --> 01:01:43.541 And thank you for boosting us, and for being a member. 01:01:47.001 --> 01:01:51.841 Jordan bravo sent in a row of ducks a 01:01:51.841 --> 01:01:54.841 few years ago i started using distros that are atomic 01:01:54.841 --> 01:01:57.881 aka immutable and i'm never going back 01:01:57.881 --> 01:02:01.181 to the legacy way of doing things unbootable systems 01:02:01.181 --> 01:02:05.441 are a thing of the past i started with silver blue and then moved to nix os 01:02:05.441 --> 01:02:11.641 of course where i have been ever since however blend os looks interesting would 01:02:11.641 --> 01:02:18.421 be great if you all could review it immutable declarative and arch based sounds interesting hmm. 01:02:18.421 --> 01:02:19.121 Yeah. 01:02:19.121 --> 01:02:21.281 I think that is one we've had our eyes on over. 01:02:21.281 --> 01:02:21.841 Time or. 01:02:21.841 --> 01:02:25.101 At least been curious about i haven't super tried it recently. 01:02:25.101 --> 01:02:27.121 The fact that it's still going yeah. 01:02:27.121 --> 01:02:27.801 That's a good sign. 01:02:27.801 --> 01:02:31.841 Probably a sign we should check in on it put it on the list boys brent we put 01:02:31.841 --> 01:02:34.481 that in the future list we should put that in the list you know what i'm saying. 01:02:34.481 --> 01:02:38.421 It's more of a grab bag than a list but i'll throw it in there thank. 01:02:38.421 --> 01:02:40.581 You appreciate that thank you jordan bravo, 01:02:45.764 --> 01:02:50.664 Fuzzy Mistborn comes in also with a Rodex. That's 2,222 sats. 01:02:52.064 --> 01:02:57.124 Frigate is amazing. I wouldn't recommend the Corals anymore, even the PCI version. 01:02:57.284 --> 01:03:00.024 They haven't seen updates in a while and are basically end of life. 01:03:00.464 --> 01:03:02.204 Yet another product killed by Google. 01:03:02.864 --> 01:03:06.404 Instead, though, you can use a GPU for object detection, and it works great. 01:03:06.844 --> 01:03:08.764 Yeah, I've heard folks are even using QuickSync. 01:03:09.364 --> 01:03:10.624 Oh, that's neat. 01:03:10.684 --> 01:03:14.564 Uh-huh. I mean, I'm happy not to buy a Coral, although it is disappointing. 01:03:14.564 --> 01:03:16.284 It seems like it was something people really liked. 01:03:16.584 --> 01:03:19.564 Google buys the company and then kills the freaking product. 01:03:21.104 --> 01:03:25.784 It's getting old. It's getting old. But that is really good to know because, 01:03:25.804 --> 01:03:30.484 honestly, the Odroid, it doesn't have, like, crazy great quick sync, 01:03:30.544 --> 01:03:32.984 but it's got passable quick sync for a couple of cameras. 01:03:33.124 --> 01:03:35.724 I might give that a try if people out there say it's working. 01:03:36.404 --> 01:03:39.344 I've also heard from people that they're using NVIDIA GPUs, too, 01:03:39.404 --> 01:03:40.224 and that I won't be doing. 01:03:40.444 --> 01:03:43.124 Right. Well, not until you get your new framework. 01:03:46.384 --> 01:03:49.804 I wish. I got a Texas Linux Fest to get to. 01:03:51.104 --> 01:03:53.984 Well, 8565 boosts in with 10,000 sets. 01:03:54.084 --> 01:03:54.504 All right. 01:03:57.284 --> 01:04:03.184 I am way behind on boosting. Life has been lifing. Just want to make sure you get some value from me. 01:04:03.304 --> 01:04:03.584 Thank you. 01:04:03.764 --> 01:04:08.504 Since I've ditched my smartphone and carry a flip phone, I don't actually have quick access to boost. 01:04:08.924 --> 01:04:13.964 Just a little update on my disconnect from society. Still rocking the flip phone since November. 01:04:14.224 --> 01:04:14.464 Wow. 01:04:14.564 --> 01:04:17.444 And my Zune is once again my best friend. 01:04:17.764 --> 01:04:20.744 The Zune! I love it! I hope it's brown. 01:04:21.044 --> 01:04:26.124 I upgraded the 30 gig, oh, from a hard drive to a 64 gig SSD. 01:04:26.384 --> 01:04:29.564 Well, that thing's basically going to last forever as long as you have a battery that works. 01:04:29.844 --> 01:04:33.644 And the automatic podcast pull is a lifesaver. That sounds pretty great. 01:04:34.004 --> 01:04:36.624 I do remember. Are you still using, like, the Zune desktop? 01:04:36.624 --> 01:04:39.084 You've got to tell us more about how you're managing this. 01:04:39.204 --> 01:04:40.404 I do remember using it for podcasts. 01:04:40.884 --> 01:04:45.344 I'll get roughly three days of constant play. Honestly, aside from losing podcast 01:04:45.344 --> 01:04:49.064 2.0 features, it has been the biggest life-improving thing I've ever done. 01:04:49.444 --> 01:04:52.864 Thanks for being awesome, and I'm still here listening, even if I'm crazy busy. 01:04:53.044 --> 01:04:54.584 I do. I appreciate that check-in. 01:04:54.724 --> 01:04:55.424 Yeah, totally. 01:04:55.604 --> 01:05:01.124 You know, 8565, too, when life isn't so busy, right, as if, you could take a 01:05:01.124 --> 01:05:05.064 Saturday afternoon and set up AlbiHub, and then you could boost from the podcast index. 01:05:05.904 --> 01:05:07.204 You don't need a mobile app at all. 01:05:08.284 --> 01:05:12.624 I love the flip phone check-in, too, and the Zoom stuff. Want more of that. 01:05:13.424 --> 01:05:15.244 Come back soon. It's good to hear from you. 01:05:15.824 --> 01:05:19.984 Well, door or nail 7887 boosted in 2000 sats. 01:05:21.838 --> 01:05:24.918 It looks like this one's just a whittle boost, they say. 01:05:25.718 --> 01:05:26.818 A whittle boost. 01:05:26.878 --> 01:05:28.118 Just a whittle boost. 01:05:28.298 --> 01:05:33.018 Thank you very much. We appreciate it. Dumb Oz here with 2,000 sets. 01:05:33.578 --> 01:05:37.978 You guys ever actually hit the watch all activity on the Nick's Packages repo? 01:05:38.278 --> 01:05:41.798 Sure gave my inbox a workout. No way. 01:05:43.798 --> 01:05:48.238 People don't appreciate how big that is. It's a whole universe out there. You maniac. 01:05:48.518 --> 01:05:50.358 I love it. All kinds of automated stuff coming through. 01:05:50.958 --> 01:05:54.578 Now what you need to do is throw it into some sort of filter to just sort out 01:05:54.578 --> 01:05:57.398 the stuff you really care about. Might be possible. You never know. 01:05:59.278 --> 01:06:03.158 WH-20,250 boosts in with 8,000 sats. 01:06:05.258 --> 01:06:07.798 A few sats to help you get to Texas Linux Fest. 01:06:07.998 --> 01:06:08.638 Hey, thank you. 01:06:08.718 --> 01:06:08.958 Thank you. 01:06:09.018 --> 01:06:12.718 If you drive jupes down and make an overnight stop in the panhandle, 01:06:12.898 --> 01:06:15.998 I'll throw a brisket on the pit if the timing lines up with my work schedule. 01:06:16.118 --> 01:06:17.158 Oh my gosh, man. 01:06:17.718 --> 01:06:18.498 Now that's an offer. 01:06:18.598 --> 01:06:21.858 Well, we're going to be coming down in my car. It's going to be Wes and I coming 01:06:21.858 --> 01:06:24.238 down the West Coast and Brent coming down the East Coast. 01:06:24.418 --> 01:06:28.338 And then we'll also be together coming up the West Coast. So we will actually have two passes at it. 01:06:28.678 --> 01:06:31.438 You never know. I would be down for that. 01:06:32.738 --> 01:06:38.258 Not having the RV, which was a tough decision, but it means we can pull into driveways. 01:06:38.358 --> 01:06:43.458 We can meet people at restaurants, at places where the RV couldn't pull into. 01:06:43.578 --> 01:06:45.878 So there's some perks to it that I'm going to embrace. 01:06:46.478 --> 01:06:48.198 So we'll try to stay in touch. It's a great idea. 01:06:48.198 --> 01:06:51.358 A dude is trying stuff for 10,000 sats. 01:06:53.878 --> 01:06:59.558 Did I hear the words useful and self-hosted? Take my money. 01:07:00.038 --> 01:07:06.418 Also, was that a sneaky self-hosted podcast sound effect at the end of the last one password ad read? 01:07:07.458 --> 01:07:07.978 Never. 01:07:09.298 --> 01:07:14.618 I'm on to you, fellas. Thanks for the nod. And I'm attending my first Texas 01:07:14.618 --> 01:07:16.698 Linux Fest this year, and I hope to see you there. 01:07:17.038 --> 01:07:20.598 Oh, right on it, dude. Yes, we'll be there one way or another. 01:07:20.898 --> 01:07:22.078 Very excited. Thank you. 01:07:22.998 --> 01:07:25.318 Looking for that. If you're making it and you boost in, let us know. 01:07:25.798 --> 01:07:27.718 We want to shake your hand. That's for sure. 01:07:28.518 --> 01:07:32.498 Right now, virtual shake to everybody who boosted in, including those of you 01:07:32.498 --> 01:07:34.338 who come in under the 2000 sat cutoff. 01:07:34.418 --> 01:07:37.078 We really appreciate it. And of course, our sat streamers too. 01:07:37.218 --> 01:07:37.478 Oh yeah. 01:07:37.678 --> 01:07:41.538 We had 18 of you sat stream. As we did the episode last week, 01:07:41.618 --> 01:07:48.298 you just sat streamed and you stacked 31,165 sats. When you combine that with 01:07:48.298 --> 01:07:52.238 our boosters, we got a little low this week, but I'm still really grateful. 01:07:55.118 --> 01:07:59.818 193,663 sats. And here's the good news. Sats are on sale again, boys. 01:08:00.018 --> 01:08:04.418 So go out, support the show, get Fountain FM and get us to Texas so we can do 01:08:04.418 --> 01:08:07.258 our unique style of coverage while you support the show. 01:08:08.421 --> 01:08:12.801 And, you know, it's also just a lot of fun to read your messages above 2000 01:08:12.801 --> 01:08:14.841 sats and we'll read them on the show. I love that, too. 01:08:15.221 --> 01:08:17.961 Of course, you can do it the whole self-hosted route with something like AlbiHub 01:08:17.961 --> 01:08:22.501 and there's a whole plethora of apps at podcastapps.com. 01:08:22.661 --> 01:08:25.561 If you're on iOS, Castomatic is really great. 01:08:26.401 --> 01:08:31.861 Also, a brand new app doesn't support boost yet, but it has a bunch of podcasting 2.0 features. Podhome. 01:08:32.761 --> 01:08:34.061 There's a Podhome app now. 01:08:34.161 --> 01:08:34.741 Is that right? 01:08:35.041 --> 01:08:38.501 And if you pay, you'd love this, Wes. If you become a premium member, 01:08:39.301 --> 01:08:42.161 Barry has integrated pod pings, live streams. 01:08:42.321 --> 01:08:45.601 So you can, it's just a, it's just a stream of podcasts that are getting published 01:08:45.601 --> 01:08:49.261 right there in the app. I paid just for that. 01:08:49.541 --> 01:08:53.241 Anyways, thank you everybody who supports the show. 01:08:53.581 --> 01:08:56.641 We really do appreciate it. If it's a membership, if it's a boost, 01:08:56.801 --> 01:09:00.561 if it's word of mouth, it really does make a difference. And that's why the 01:09:00.561 --> 01:09:04.701 show continues to go so many years later and has become the world's largest 01:09:04.701 --> 01:09:06.881 Linux podcast is because of your support. 01:09:07.021 --> 01:09:13.821 I mean it, and we appreciate it. So with that, let's get you a pick and get you out of here. 01:09:14.701 --> 01:09:17.661 So let's say this is pronounced Cavisto. 01:09:18.541 --> 01:09:19.521 Cavisto, what do you think? 01:09:21.201 --> 01:09:21.681 Cavitzo? 01:09:21.981 --> 01:09:22.461 Cavitzo? 01:09:22.881 --> 01:09:24.101 What do you think, Brett? 01:09:24.981 --> 01:09:28.821 Cavitzo? You guys are missing that sits in there. There's S-I-T-S. 01:09:29.061 --> 01:09:34.521 Okay, let's go. Cavitzo, I'm sorry we have to do this. But it's worth it. 01:09:34.521 --> 01:09:37.041 It is a little bit different. 01:09:37.561 --> 01:09:43.021 It is a search focused approach to an Android launcher, but with a bias towards 01:09:43.021 --> 01:09:47.861 beautiful placement of widgets in kind of a list view. 01:09:48.241 --> 01:09:52.901 So this replaces the stock launcher and you can pin your favorite apps to the top. 01:09:53.814 --> 01:09:56.814 it also supports gestures and one of the things that i like about this especially 01:09:56.814 --> 01:10:00.234 if you're coming from ios is it's it's competitive 01:10:00.234 --> 01:10:03.574 with apple's integrated search and launch functionality which 01:10:03.574 --> 01:10:06.374 somehow bafflingly so google has yet to rip 01:10:06.374 --> 01:10:12.914 off it strikes me as user hostile that a you have to swipe from the bottom up 01:10:12.914 --> 01:10:16.934 in just the right way because one way is your app switcher and the other way 01:10:16.934 --> 01:10:21.494 is a call to home and then the other way pulls up your app drawer and then because 01:10:21.494 --> 01:10:24.214 they're absolutely monsters that design this UI, 01:10:24.214 --> 01:10:28.654 it doesn't default to the search being active. 01:10:29.574 --> 01:10:35.494 So you have to tap the search and then start typing. It's crazy. 01:10:35.834 --> 01:10:39.834 I have in person seen your rage around this particular lack of feature. 01:10:40.054 --> 01:10:41.094 It's very entertaining. 01:10:41.354 --> 01:10:44.334 So you can imagine I have completely switched to this launcher now because you 01:10:44.334 --> 01:10:49.134 swipe down briefly, quickly in a natural gesture and it brings up the launcher 01:10:49.134 --> 01:10:53.754 defaulting to switch and are defaulting to search it's a super fast search well. 01:10:53.754 --> 01:10:56.194 This is nice i just installed it sideloaded it in fact. 01:10:56.194 --> 01:10:58.194 Yes i installed it through obtainium yeah. 01:10:58.194 --> 01:10:58.794 It was easy. 01:10:58.794 --> 01:11:01.774 Uh it also the search you can have it trigger to search for the 01:11:01.774 --> 01:11:06.054 web or google or other things and i really like the combination of pin favorite 01:11:06.054 --> 01:11:09.534 apps plus it figures out the apps you use most recently you can have multiple 01:11:09.534 --> 01:11:12.754 tabs in there and it has really great search and then when you go to the home 01:11:12.754 --> 01:11:17.714 screen it's all my heads up information with my widgets really nicely laid out 01:11:17.714 --> 01:11:21.254 you do have to kind of get go in there and mess with them a little bit to get them to look good. 01:11:21.614 --> 01:11:26.414 When you do, it's just beautiful. It's very fast and actually gives me more 01:11:26.414 --> 01:11:29.614 information just glancing at my screen than traditionally. 01:11:29.914 --> 01:11:33.934 And so with this combined with Graphene OS and something like Obtainium, 01:11:34.474 --> 01:11:37.034 it truly honestly feels like my phone. 01:11:37.874 --> 01:11:42.754 A lot of times when I use a modern phone, it feels like I'm using Apple's experience 01:11:42.754 --> 01:11:45.994 or I'm using Google's products and I'm kind of like renting it. 01:11:47.133 --> 01:11:50.693 But when you go with Graphene OS and you sideload your apps with Obtainium and 01:11:50.693 --> 01:11:56.693 F-Droid, and you replace the launcher with this thing, it is a unique experience 01:11:56.693 --> 01:11:59.073 that has nothing that feels like Google on it. 01:11:59.273 --> 01:12:02.673 And this is a truly better way to launch applications, especially if you're 01:12:02.673 --> 01:12:09.453 a maniac like me, that really has five to ten core apps I use on the regular. 01:12:09.773 --> 01:12:12.273 You know, maybe five, really, ten. 01:12:12.653 --> 01:12:15.233 And yet my phone has nearly 300 apps installed on it. 01:12:15.993 --> 01:12:19.733 because I might use them one day. I might need that app, and when I might need 01:12:19.733 --> 01:12:22.453 it, I don't want to be in a place where I can't get it because of a low signal, 01:12:23.173 --> 01:12:24.713 so I'm going to have it installed just in case. 01:12:26.233 --> 01:12:28.573 This makes sorting through all of that so much better. Also, 01:12:28.673 --> 01:12:31.433 focusing on the apps I do use, focusing on the information in the widgets I 01:12:31.433 --> 01:12:33.373 do use, it's really nice. 01:12:33.573 --> 01:12:38.393 You don't have to be on Graphene OS, but the combination, it feels like true freedom. 01:12:40.433 --> 01:12:42.233 And it's GPL 3.0. 01:12:44.893 --> 01:12:49.513 that's great i think if you tried it and you really try it for three or four days i'm. 01:12:49.513 --> 01:12:51.133 Gonna switch right now and just see. 01:12:51.133 --> 01:12:55.013 See if it sticks i think you will like it i i really is a little different it 01:12:55.013 --> 01:12:58.873 took me playing around with it and messing with the widgets and now i've been 01:12:58.873 --> 01:13:03.933 using it yeah i think it's like middle of last week and i'm totally i'm forever now what. 01:13:03.933 --> 01:13:04.873 Do you think will you give it a go. 01:13:06.728 --> 01:13:10.648 You know, I think I've used this one in the past. I was like very, very, 01:13:10.948 --> 01:13:14.608 very unhappy with, um, I think it was a launcher that came with like a, 01:13:14.808 --> 01:13:19.728 I don't know, Motorola phone or something like that and was doing the deep dive 01:13:19.728 --> 01:13:22.508 on basically installed every single alternative launcher. 01:13:22.588 --> 01:13:25.248 And I think this was one of them. And I think it made like the top three for me. 01:13:25.428 --> 01:13:29.248 So I'll give it another shot. I mean, it has Chris's blessing. 01:13:29.528 --> 01:13:31.268 So it might not be that bad. 01:13:31.488 --> 01:13:35.468 I recommend, you know, um, you got to kind of like go in and like recrop the 01:13:35.468 --> 01:13:39.188 widgets and stuff for like some of the apps, but I really like it. 01:13:39.468 --> 01:13:43.548 What would you say is the minimum number of days to give it a proper try? 01:13:44.428 --> 01:13:45.008 Probably three. 01:13:45.748 --> 01:13:46.608 Oh, I'm in then. 01:13:47.348 --> 01:13:49.948 Unless you use your phone a lot, but yeah, I'd say probably three. 01:13:50.368 --> 01:13:53.008 Yeah. Give it a shot. We'll put a link in the show notes. I think you're going to like it. 01:13:53.528 --> 01:13:57.308 I was surprised by it. And I'm, you know, I was like, I'll just give this a 01:13:57.308 --> 01:14:01.068 quick try because Wes shared an article where it just got like a really brief mention. 01:14:02.228 --> 01:14:04.228 And I was like, while I was reading the article, I'm like, wait a minute, 01:14:04.308 --> 01:14:05.188 I'm going to go try that out. 01:14:05.188 --> 01:14:08.068 Yeah, it was someone talking about, I mean, really just why they were going 01:14:08.068 --> 01:14:11.168 to continue to be using Graphene OS into the future, which was great to see 01:14:11.168 --> 01:14:13.228 in general. And, yeah, it turns out they had some good tips. 01:14:13.328 --> 01:14:16.268 Yeah, just ironically, that was not the focus, but that was my takeaway. 01:14:16.548 --> 01:14:18.928 Yeah, threw in the end. Well, the rest we kind of already agreed on. 01:14:19.068 --> 01:14:24.068 Yeah, I suppose that's probably true. And, you know, so from now on, 01:14:24.108 --> 01:14:24.948 that's my launcher choice. 01:14:25.588 --> 01:14:29.728 And we'll put a link to it in the show notes at linuxunplugged.com slash 630. 01:14:30.608 --> 01:14:32.748 All right, well, that's going to wrap us up right there, boys. 01:14:32.748 --> 01:14:35.248 We're going to get out of here. And I want to remind everybody that we are trying 01:14:35.248 --> 01:14:38.188 to put together some funds to get to Texas Linux Fest. 01:14:38.448 --> 01:14:44.248 We may have news about, like, meetup locations and swag and things like that midweek. 01:14:44.368 --> 01:14:47.748 So keep an eye out on the Jupyter Garage for that type of stuff. 01:14:48.128 --> 01:14:50.948 Hopefully be in the work soon. And then we have more details about, 01:14:51.048 --> 01:14:52.348 like, when we're actually going to be in Austin. 01:14:52.348 --> 01:14:55.288 I imagine we'll put something up on our meetup.com slash Jupyter broadcasting 01:14:55.288 --> 01:14:59.508 page. So if you're going to be at Texas Linux Fest I'd say right now at this 01:14:59.508 --> 01:15:03.328 stage The two top tips I would have Would be A. Let us know, 01:15:04.669 --> 01:15:07.629 And get in the Texas LinuxFest Matrix chat room. I think we have one of those. 01:15:08.029 --> 01:15:09.869 We should probably put a link to that in the show notes, boys. 01:15:10.669 --> 01:15:12.909 What else do they need to know if they're going to? Oh, meetup.com slash Jupyter 01:15:12.909 --> 01:15:14.989 Broadcasting, I suppose. That's probably it. 01:15:15.589 --> 01:15:19.649 That'll probably be it. All right. Well, I don't want to leave, but it is that time. 01:15:23.409 --> 01:15:27.909 I hate to leave you, but then again, I love sitting down and getting to do it 01:15:27.909 --> 01:15:29.509 all over again. So come back. 01:15:29.649 --> 01:15:30.669 We will be here next week. 01:15:30.669 --> 01:15:34.349 That's right. For 631. Wes, there's probably some power user features they should know about. 01:15:34.349 --> 01:15:37.509 Yeah, do you not like some of the stuff we talk about? Or you just can't wait 01:15:37.509 --> 01:15:39.569 to hear our take or bad take on something? 01:15:39.809 --> 01:15:42.149 Or did we name something and you want to hear what it was again? 01:15:42.469 --> 01:15:46.489 Yeah, well, we have two things for you. One is transcripts for the whole darn 01:15:46.489 --> 01:15:50.169 show, so you can see everything we say, or at least what the AI guesses we said, 01:15:50.229 --> 01:15:51.869 which is pretty close most of the time. 01:15:53.009 --> 01:15:56.949 And then we also have chapters, which get the more human touch in our, 01:15:57.089 --> 01:16:00.269 you know, probably the easiest way to just jump right to the content you want. 01:16:00.469 --> 01:16:03.329 Yep. All right, thank you for being here. Of course, you can join us next week. 01:16:03.329 --> 01:16:05.849 We have the details at jupiterbroadcasting.com slash calendar. 01:16:06.869 --> 01:16:10.089 And we'll see you next Sunday, as in Tuesday.
Previous episode Next episode

Related episodes

Search

Search

Listen on

Apple Podcasts Spotify RSS feed

Tags

Texas