Skip to main content
LawHub
Sign In
About LawHub Advantage EXPLORING LAW Preparing for the LSAT Applying to Law School EXCEL IN LAW SCHOOL CHARTING YOUR CAREER Listen to I Am The Law Podcast Trends Sign In
Search

Engineering the Future

Oct 12, 2025
Listen to this episode

We're back from Texas just in time to chat with Jon Seager, Canonical's VP of Engineering, and their new era with Ubuntu 25.10. On the way, we visit System76 in Denver where the COSMIC team has surprises waiting for us.

Sponsored By:

Support LINUX Unplugged

Links:

Transcript

WEBVTT 00:00:11.495 --> 00:00:16.075 Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. 00:00:16.275 --> 00:00:16.875 My name is Wes. 00:00:16.995 --> 00:00:17.715 And my name is Brent. 00:00:18.495 --> 00:00:22.555 Hello, gentlemen. Coming up on the show this week, it was a race against time 00:00:22.555 --> 00:00:24.035 to leave Texas Linux Fest. 00:00:24.195 --> 00:00:29.575 We had a date at System76 to get the inside scoop on the Cosmic Desktop and its future. 00:00:29.775 --> 00:00:33.715 And then we had a chance to chat with John Seeger, the VP of Engineering at 00:00:33.715 --> 00:00:35.875 Canonical, fresh off the 2510 release. 00:00:36.035 --> 00:00:39.835 But we had to make it back to the studio in time for our live chat. 00:00:39.835 --> 00:00:43.295 We'll tell you all about that and how it went and play those chats. 00:00:43.455 --> 00:00:47.175 And then we'll round out the show with some great booths, some picks, and a lot more. 00:00:47.755 --> 00:00:51.095 So before we get there, let's say time-appropriate greetings to our live virtual 00:00:51.095 --> 00:00:54.735 log. Hello, Mumble Room. Hey, Chris. Hello, Brent. Hello, hello, hello. 00:00:55.555 --> 00:00:59.375 Hola, bienvenidos. Hello. You know, if you want to join our Mumble Room, 00:00:59.535 --> 00:01:01.295 if you're listening out there, it's pretty fun. 00:01:01.815 --> 00:01:05.335 It's got a live vibe. Details are jupiterbroadcasting.com slash mumble. 00:01:05.835 --> 00:01:09.655 It's an open invite. We'll have a conversation with anyone. We have an open 00:01:09.655 --> 00:01:13.395 mumble room. We just check your mic to make sure everything's sounding good enough to go on air. 00:01:13.595 --> 00:01:17.895 And then you can come and chat with us during the show even or during the pre 00:01:17.895 --> 00:01:20.315 and post show, which is generally when the mumble room is really going. 00:01:20.595 --> 00:01:23.515 And it's a lot of fun. That's jupiterbroadcasting.com slash mumble. 00:01:24.355 --> 00:01:27.935 And a big good morning to our friends at Defined Networking. 00:01:28.055 --> 00:01:31.795 Go to defined.net slash unplugged. Check out Managed Nebula. 00:01:32.135 --> 00:01:37.435 It's a decentralized VPN built on the amazing Nebula platform that Wes and I 00:01:37.435 --> 00:01:40.315 are huge fans of. and we're going to convert Brent soon. 00:01:40.495 --> 00:01:40.835 Oh, yeah. 00:01:41.095 --> 00:01:42.455 We're coming for you, Brent. 00:01:42.655 --> 00:01:43.575 Watch out, Moose. 00:01:43.675 --> 00:01:44.675 I'm open to it. 00:01:44.915 --> 00:01:50.375 I know you are. I'm just teasing. Unlike traditional VPNs, Nebula has a decentralized 00:01:50.375 --> 00:01:52.315 design, so your network is resilient. 00:01:52.415 --> 00:01:55.415 If you manage it yourself for your enterprise, for a home lab, 00:01:55.575 --> 00:02:00.255 or maybe even a global enterprise, or you can take advantage of their totally 00:02:00.255 --> 00:02:05.715 managed product with 100 devices, totally free, when you go to define.net slash unplugged. 00:02:06.075 --> 00:02:10.575 Nebula is really something special. It was originally developed in 2017 to securely 00:02:10.575 --> 00:02:12.375 connect Slack's global infrastructure. 00:02:12.575 --> 00:02:16.775 I mean, I'm talking all over the world, everybody's data, some of the most important 00:02:16.775 --> 00:02:19.415 companies in the world, has to be rock solid and secure. 00:02:19.555 --> 00:02:23.115 It had to meet those goals, that flexibility, that decentralization, 00:02:23.255 --> 00:02:26.915 that security from day one. That was 2017. That's where we were at in 2017. 00:02:27.515 --> 00:02:31.775 It has grown incredibly. Now we have the managed product, clients for end users. 00:02:33.315 --> 00:02:37.875 Rivians on the highway are running Nebula. I mean, I'm talking industrial-grade stuff. 00:02:38.015 --> 00:02:41.355 And if you want to, you can completely own the entire stack. 00:02:41.495 --> 00:02:43.895 Or you can take advantage for your friends, your family, yourself, 00:02:44.075 --> 00:02:47.035 of their totally managed product with 100 hosts, absolutely free, 00:02:47.095 --> 00:02:48.755 no credit card required. 00:02:48.975 --> 00:02:54.775 Go check it out. Go to defined.net slash unplugged. Redefine your VPN experience and check out Nebula. 00:02:55.215 --> 00:02:57.795 Defined.net slash unplugged. 00:02:59.635 --> 00:03:01.235 Well, we have made it back from 00:03:01.235 --> 00:03:05.515 our escape from Texas, So I guess not to spoil it, but we did make it. 00:03:05.955 --> 00:03:11.735 And it was such a great trip. And before we get into the story and our trip 00:03:11.735 --> 00:03:16.975 to Denver to chat with the System 76 crew, I want to just share the team's gratitude 00:03:16.975 --> 00:03:18.795 to our audience who made this possible. 00:03:19.355 --> 00:03:24.155 You got us down there and you got us back. And we didn't have any incidents. 00:03:24.455 --> 00:03:29.335 Nobody blew out a tire. Nobody got a ticket. There was no fender bender. 00:03:30.095 --> 00:03:33.255 I mean, do you know the numbers, Wes? That's what we drove collectively. 00:03:33.255 --> 00:03:35.715 I mean, we drove collectively a ton of miles. 00:03:36.235 --> 00:03:42.355 Oh, yeah. Oh, here. Well, we've got them live up there if you just want the miles on the tracker. 00:03:42.695 --> 00:03:45.995 Oh, yeah, right. Texas tracker is still live because Brent's actually still on the road. 00:03:46.175 --> 00:03:53.295 That's right. So you and I, Team Bigfoot, we drove a total path distance of 4,732 miles. 00:03:53.735 --> 00:03:58.295 And Moose there, who's not done yet, is at 3,416. 00:03:59.035 --> 00:04:03.955 It's really awesome. We had a chance to connect with a great community down 00:04:03.955 --> 00:04:09.615 there, but then it wasn't even initially on our plan, but because we were working 00:04:09.615 --> 00:04:11.515 for the audience and not a particular sponsor, 00:04:11.815 --> 00:04:16.195 we were able to do a last-minute schedule with System76 to swing by and get 00:04:16.195 --> 00:04:18.755 a hands-on demonstration of the latest and greatest with Cosmic. 00:04:19.315 --> 00:04:24.075 I just want to underscore, not only did it mean that our entire intention was 00:04:24.075 --> 00:04:27.195 always just to create great content for you, but we had a kind of flexibility 00:04:27.195 --> 00:04:28.735 that I just don't think would have been there. 00:04:28.995 --> 00:04:33.335 And so we got to do something really special. And it meant we were on a very tight timeline. 00:04:33.715 --> 00:04:38.815 Okay, so the goal was to be out by 9.30. It's 9.29 a.m. Oh, we're doing pretty 00:04:38.815 --> 00:04:39.995 good. What are you doing right now? 00:04:40.135 --> 00:04:44.535 Well, I got to unplug the van and put the solar panel in the bag. 00:04:44.595 --> 00:04:46.115 I noticed your bags aren't loaded either. 00:04:46.255 --> 00:04:49.975 Well, I staged them beside the van. Probably got to feed the kitties a little bit of food. 00:04:50.155 --> 00:04:52.635 Well, they are jumping around like they want some food. Uh-huh. 00:04:52.935 --> 00:04:54.875 Yeah. I don't know about you, Wes, but I'm kind of ready to go. 00:04:55.035 --> 00:04:56.975 Yeah, let's hit the road. We got miles to go today. 00:04:58.705 --> 00:05:00.825 You and i had it down at this point yeah. 00:05:00.825 --> 00:05:01.865 Well practiced i think. 00:05:01.865 --> 00:05:05.325 Yeah and and to be fair brent has a little bit more to take care of oh yeah. 00:05:05.325 --> 00:05:08.265 We were doing lean and mean and that was definitely an advantage for us. 00:05:08.265 --> 00:05:12.305 Brent's got animals to take care of a van to take care of and a brent to take care of. 00:05:12.305 --> 00:05:16.305 It was clear in that moment uh the difference between the types of trips we 00:05:16.305 --> 00:05:20.765 had had up to this point because i was you know let's say meandering my way 00:05:20.765 --> 00:05:25.465 to texas and uh very happily so and you guys were just jetting down there and 00:05:25.465 --> 00:05:30.105 this is the collision of those two uh philosophies and it was clear that we 00:05:30.105 --> 00:05:31.125 were going to have to figure it out. 00:05:31.945 --> 00:05:36.285 And just as we're ready to go, I mean really ready to go, Brent informs us that 00:05:36.285 --> 00:05:38.385 he's had a little issue that he hasn't told us about. 00:05:39.185 --> 00:05:42.645 You got all those belts? I think so. Maybe. 00:05:43.565 --> 00:05:47.485 I don't hear anything. No, it's only when I really give it gas. 00:05:48.405 --> 00:05:52.265 When you give it the onions? Yeah, like if I'm pulling out of a parking lot or trying to pass you. 00:05:54.445 --> 00:06:00.165 So maybe. Since when the engine's really red? Yeah, maybe I'll go in there and give a couple of kicks. 00:06:10.265 --> 00:06:17.285 Well, if I were to guess, I would say alternator. Because it's coming from the bottom corner. 00:06:20.345 --> 00:06:23.745 This was a theme for the day. This should have been our indication of how the 00:06:23.745 --> 00:06:27.025 day was going to go because we didn't want to push the van too hard. 00:06:27.025 --> 00:06:30.205 We weren't in a particular time crunch for that day because we just had to get 00:06:30.205 --> 00:06:33.305 from Austin to Amarillo. So we had, you know, only a seven hour drive day. 00:06:34.345 --> 00:06:37.745 So we thought maybe we would make it in decent time, get to Amarillo, 00:06:37.845 --> 00:06:42.025 do some grocery shopping, stock the Airbnb. That's not exactly how things went. 00:06:42.665 --> 00:06:44.645 Yeah, we just hit 80,000 miles on the car. 00:06:46.051 --> 00:06:50.731 All right, so we've been driving for 395 miles, 6 hours and 44 minutes. 00:06:51.391 --> 00:06:55.091 We're at the fourth O'Reilly of the day. Hey, one of those was an AutoZone. 00:06:55.871 --> 00:07:00.051 We're going to go with Brent and we're going to get an alternator that he doesn't need. 00:07:00.671 --> 00:07:04.911 And then we'll be on our way to the Airbnb. Definitely moving a bit slower today. 00:07:06.691 --> 00:07:09.531 We did ultimately get there and Brent did get his alternator. 00:07:09.651 --> 00:07:09.931 Oh, yeah. 00:07:09.971 --> 00:07:11.671 Which I'm kind of in favor of now. 00:07:11.791 --> 00:07:15.091 Well, okay, because you never express in real time that I certainly didn't need 00:07:15.091 --> 00:07:18.151 it. It was like community voting, you know, all of us, but you seem to just 00:07:18.151 --> 00:07:19.771 go with the crazy Brent plans. 00:07:19.951 --> 00:07:23.871 Well, I was, you know, I was like, it's a belt. I think it's a belt first and foremost. 00:07:24.031 --> 00:07:27.211 And if there's another issue because of, you know, that, then we'll deal with 00:07:27.211 --> 00:07:28.891 that. But I was like, it's really, it's just a belt problem. 00:07:30.111 --> 00:07:33.131 But, you know, you got a better unit. So when you do get it installed, 00:07:33.191 --> 00:07:34.251 I actually think you're going to be better off. 00:07:34.851 --> 00:07:38.251 And we did get to our Airbnb. Nothing really stands out to me about that one. 00:07:38.431 --> 00:07:40.831 They all kind of have, I don't know about you guys, but they all kind of just 00:07:40.831 --> 00:07:43.311 merged together as one meta Airbnb. well. 00:07:43.311 --> 00:07:45.231 There was one i don't think we could forget. 00:07:45.231 --> 00:07:50.491 Well yeah yeah the one where we had somebody else the stuff in there oh no no okay. 00:07:50.491 --> 00:07:52.831 Too no the one where you um didn't really fit in the shower. 00:07:52.831 --> 00:07:55.411 Oh that was this airbnb wasn't no. 00:07:55.411 --> 00:07:56.951 No it was uh the denver one. 00:07:56.951 --> 00:07:59.591 It was multiple oh yeah oh right it was 00:07:59.591 --> 00:08:02.331 multiple guys not one of our airbnbs had 00:08:02.331 --> 00:08:05.231 a functional bathroom for me not one of them they all had something weird 00:08:05.231 --> 00:08:08.131 i don't know what's going on with airbnbs and bathrooms but we 00:08:08.131 --> 00:08:10.831 got there the next morning it was time to set off because we needed to get 00:08:10.831 --> 00:08:14.771 to denver this is where the timeline got tight because carl 00:08:14.771 --> 00:08:17.831 had a carl the ceo of system 76 00:08:17.831 --> 00:08:20.691 had scheduled himself a work from home week 00:08:20.691 --> 00:08:25.351 and he came in gracefully because we were coming into town as well as so had 00:08:25.351 --> 00:08:30.451 jeremy soller and so they both came in and scheduled to come into the office 00:08:30.451 --> 00:08:33.471 because we were going to be there to help you know give this presentation and 00:08:33.471 --> 00:08:36.971 so we really wanted to make it on time because we were kind of taking from their 00:08:36.971 --> 00:08:40.131 plan to work from home week and i i didn't intend for that to happen No. 00:08:40.271 --> 00:08:42.811 We just thought, oh, we happen to be here. Maybe something will work out, 00:08:42.951 --> 00:08:44.011 and that was very gracious of them. 00:08:44.071 --> 00:08:47.811 We're like, okay, we're in Amarillo, but we need to be there tomorrow by 10 a.m. 00:08:48.031 --> 00:08:53.431 I wouldn't call it fixed. No. I'd call it... 00:08:53.831 --> 00:08:56.151 Mildly improved? Not even? 00:08:57.471 --> 00:09:02.351 No. But we may have fixed on a leak on the radiator. Yeah, that was easy. Unrelated. 00:09:02.711 --> 00:09:05.811 So that's a win. We'll stack that. Let me get down the road a little bit because 00:09:05.811 --> 00:09:09.431 we've got to get the hell out of this Airbnb and see how it does. We'll check on her. 00:09:09.971 --> 00:09:11.871 I'm worried I'm, 00:09:13.579 --> 00:09:16.039 Well, this is the ultimate test. I mean, you're really pushing all the components, 00:09:16.439 --> 00:09:20.099 long duration, driving, heat, miles and miles. 00:09:20.279 --> 00:09:22.859 I mean, this is it, right? This is if things are going to break or crack. 00:09:23.359 --> 00:09:25.299 You're talking about just getting it over to O'Reilly's? 00:09:30.519 --> 00:09:34.959 Oh, man. We did it. And I do remember this. So we have a process, 00:09:35.099 --> 00:09:36.079 right? We get to an Airbnb. 00:09:36.619 --> 00:09:39.619 And within minutes, we try to get the Wi-Fi set up. We try to get streaming 00:09:39.619 --> 00:09:41.779 set up. We try to get Star Trek going on the main screen. 00:09:41.939 --> 00:09:44.199 Yeah, time to Star Trek. That's our standard Airbnb metric. 00:09:44.339 --> 00:09:47.319 Yeah, and it is an interesting one because it's like, you got to get the network 00:09:47.319 --> 00:09:50.539 stood up. You got to get a device working. You got to get a client device paired with that. 00:09:50.659 --> 00:09:53.659 And what's the TV setup, right? Can you use the tech that's there? 00:09:53.779 --> 00:09:56.019 Do you have to inject your own? How accessible is it? 00:09:56.139 --> 00:09:59.099 And every time we do this, we kind of like refine this idea of this ultimate 00:09:59.099 --> 00:10:04.719 tiny Linux box that has HDMI that boots right into a Kodi that just immediately 00:10:04.719 --> 00:10:08.499 starts randomly playing Star Trek and sets up an AP that all our devices connect to. 00:10:08.579 --> 00:10:10.939 Like we've been, we have been iterating on this idea. 00:10:11.079 --> 00:10:13.899 So if you have any suggestions for a device like that, please do boost them 00:10:13.899 --> 00:10:17.379 in or send us an email at linuxunplugged.com slash contact because we want to 00:10:17.379 --> 00:10:20.839 build something when we get to an Airbnb that's like a little Linux router slash 00:10:20.839 --> 00:10:23.939 Kodi box slash Wi-Fi AP repeater. 00:10:24.879 --> 00:10:27.959 Also Nebula device. That's what we're going for. 00:10:28.519 --> 00:10:33.059 So that's, but it is, this Airbnb we arrived at turned out to be in somebody's 00:10:33.059 --> 00:10:35.039 basement, which we didn't expect. 00:10:35.359 --> 00:10:38.279 And so I also did not fit in that. I'm not a particularly tall guy. 00:10:38.499 --> 00:10:42.499 I'm, I think 5'11", if that's, you know, It's not that unusual, 00:10:42.539 --> 00:10:48.119 but yeah, it wasn't ideal, but we made it to System 76 on time. 00:10:48.779 --> 00:10:53.199 Wes and I are just outside the System 76 office, waiting for Brent to feed his 00:10:53.199 --> 00:10:56.799 cats and get the audio interface that he forgot in the van somewhere. 00:10:58.579 --> 00:11:02.259 So, we're kind of on time. We're on Brent time, that's for sure. 00:11:02.739 --> 00:11:05.479 There's no escape in Brent time, but his cat's. 00:11:06.995 --> 00:11:09.915 Hey. Hey, what? What are you guys doing over here? Nothing. Just waiting for 00:11:09.915 --> 00:11:11.875 you, buddy. Yeah? Yeah. Okay. 00:11:12.175 --> 00:11:15.555 And we got there and, you know, we show up. Every time we go, 00:11:15.755 --> 00:11:18.355 they've changed so much. They've expanded. 00:11:18.515 --> 00:11:18.935 Oh, yeah. 00:11:19.395 --> 00:11:21.415 Rearranged the office. So it's a new entrance. 00:11:21.635 --> 00:11:24.615 Bunch of new tech. Bunch of new people. It just changes all the time. 00:11:24.755 --> 00:11:27.495 A lot more lasers. There's a whole lot of lasers now. 00:11:28.515 --> 00:11:32.475 We got there. It was great to see Carl. He gave us a tour of all the new stuff 00:11:32.475 --> 00:11:34.195 and some things they're working on. 00:11:34.255 --> 00:11:38.335 And it was also the day they were releasing the new Oryx. So that was kind of exciting. 00:11:38.735 --> 00:11:43.035 And then we sat down with him and Jeremy in an office space to try to just get 00:11:43.035 --> 00:11:46.815 the state of Cosmic because they're getting really close right now. 00:11:47.055 --> 00:11:51.235 But there's still some things that are missing. But there's also a lot of stuff 00:11:51.235 --> 00:11:55.115 regarding Cosmic that people have not discussed, including some features that 00:11:55.115 --> 00:11:59.655 have recently been added that they touch on in our chat here that are just blow away cool. 00:12:00.075 --> 00:12:03.895 We just had a great tour. Carl gave us a tour of the factory to kind of get 00:12:03.895 --> 00:12:07.115 an update on everything. but we're really here to get an update on Cosmic because 00:12:07.115 --> 00:12:09.595 the last time we chatted about it, it was early alpha. 00:12:10.035 --> 00:12:12.835 It must have been like at a Linux Fest or something. It was a while ago. 00:12:13.275 --> 00:12:14.895 And I think things have come a lot further. 00:12:15.815 --> 00:12:20.495 Yeah, I think that was Linux Fest Northwest. And is it Big Bertha? 00:12:25.535 --> 00:12:30.875 In Bellingham. But no, it was in the RV. Oh, Joops. Joops. 00:12:31.555 --> 00:12:33.895 Right, you came in Lady Joops and gave us a demo. Yeah. Right. 00:12:34.235 --> 00:12:39.295 Right. So, yeah, at that point, I think we were talking about where Cosmic was. 00:12:40.055 --> 00:12:45.815 The talk I was giving was on apps because it's my second time around at LinuxFest Northwest. 00:12:46.175 --> 00:12:50.035 I wanted to do some new content. So Jeremy actually did a lot of the work on 00:12:50.035 --> 00:12:55.455 the apps and wanted to highlight how unique they are because there's a lot of 00:12:55.455 --> 00:12:59.915 features that you just don't get in a lot of desktop apps on Linux. 00:13:00.755 --> 00:13:04.835 So we've been kind of looking at a couple of things just before we started recording. but, 00:13:05.896 --> 00:13:10.536 And things like fancy background switching for users at creators, 00:13:10.696 --> 00:13:14.656 and it looks like we're getting to the polish aspect of Cosmic now. 00:13:15.356 --> 00:13:19.556 Yeah, there's a long gap between Alpha 7, which was in April, 00:13:19.796 --> 00:13:23.016 and our beta release at the end of September. 00:13:23.336 --> 00:13:26.556 I guess that's, whatever, six months or something like that, five months. 00:13:28.256 --> 00:13:32.416 And after the Alpha 7, one of the reasons that we did alphas frequently was 00:13:32.416 --> 00:13:36.796 because we kept getting the same bugs over and over again, even though they had been resolved. 00:13:37.656 --> 00:13:41.216 So unless we were tagging releases and those were being adopted, 00:13:41.316 --> 00:13:45.616 that's because Cosmic is packaged for Arch and Fedora and Open Suicide and things like that. 00:13:45.716 --> 00:13:50.256 So unless we were tagging frequently, just the triage and the amount of effort 00:13:50.256 --> 00:13:53.676 to go through things that had already been solved was pretty high. 00:13:54.236 --> 00:14:00.196 But Alpha 7 was kind of a point where things improved considerably at that point. 00:14:00.436 --> 00:14:03.436 And so we didn't get a lot of issues afterwards. 00:14:03.696 --> 00:14:06.316 And there were unique ones that came after that. 00:14:07.176 --> 00:14:10.156 So the beta release marked that point where all the features, 00:14:10.356 --> 00:14:11.996 or by and large, all the features are in. 00:14:12.256 --> 00:14:17.336 And now we're working on smaller bug fixes and polish for the final release. 00:14:17.456 --> 00:14:19.996 Jeremy's here, too. And I wonder, Jeremy, if you have any comments on sort of 00:14:19.996 --> 00:14:23.796 just the state of the system and where it's at from a code development standpoint, 00:14:24.076 --> 00:14:24.936 stability, things like that. 00:14:25.356 --> 00:14:30.076 Yeah, sure. So as Carl said, we nailed down most of the new features already, 00:14:30.296 --> 00:14:32.976 except for a whole bunch of things that we're adding. 00:14:33.176 --> 00:14:37.896 Like the Cosmic Store needs to have Flatpak add-ons. We're doing printing support 00:14:37.896 --> 00:14:41.916 in Cosmic Edit, which is more nuts than I thought it would be. 00:14:41.916 --> 00:14:46.576 But in general, the system's pretty stable, and we're just working through the 00:14:46.576 --> 00:14:50.976 backlog of issues that people have reported during the alpha and beta phase 00:14:50.976 --> 00:14:53.636 and trying to fix them all before RC. 00:14:53.956 --> 00:14:58.316 And we actually started shipping a unit with the Cosmic Beta. 00:14:58.976 --> 00:15:06.836 So the Oryx Pro with the codename Oryp 13 is an AMD and NVIDIA hybrid system. 00:15:07.076 --> 00:15:12.096 And it turns out that it works best in Cosmic because of the way that Cosmic 00:15:12.096 --> 00:15:13.916 handles hybrid graphics. 00:15:14.236 --> 00:15:18.176 Right. So the Oryx Pro has just been released today. It's October 8th. 00:15:18.476 --> 00:15:25.516 So it's a brand new product with Strix Point CPU, NVIDIA 5070 graphics. 00:15:25.516 --> 00:15:31.376 And what's really unique about Strix's point is that the VGA or the controller, 00:15:31.696 --> 00:15:39.856 the integrated GPU, is not VGA compatible, meaning that it's... 00:15:40.419 --> 00:15:47.659 It requires Wayland because it will not work with X11 because it's not a VGA-compatible GPU. 00:15:48.399 --> 00:15:53.479 So as we were working through the products, like Ubuntu 24.04, 00:15:53.719 --> 00:16:01.359 if you write it on X11, the discrete GPU is always on because the X11 can't use the integrated GPU. 00:16:01.999 --> 00:16:06.859 In Wayland, that does work correctly. And so when we're shipping Ubuntu 24.04, 00:16:07.039 --> 00:16:09.599 we're also shipping that with Wayland on that product. 00:16:09.599 --> 00:16:17.479 And we weren't going to go back to 2204 for POP and find out what the Wayland 00:16:17.479 --> 00:16:22.999 State was there when we have this brand new desktop that's really close and 00:16:22.999 --> 00:16:26.839 frankly at this point a better product than what we're shipping with 2204. 00:16:27.479 --> 00:16:33.379 So the Oryx becomes our first product to ship with Cosmic, one by necessity 00:16:33.379 --> 00:16:37.519 and also because we think we're shipping a better product to our customers. 00:16:37.699 --> 00:16:39.139 That's a pretty big milestone. 00:16:39.599 --> 00:16:44.759 So we're going to kind of play with things off mic, but I'm curious, 00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:48.279 because you guys have been kind of running this the longest out of almost anybody 00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:52.659 on the internet, what are people missing when it comes to what's great about using Cosmic? 00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:56.799 Like when you hear people discussing Cosmic and arguing Plasma versus Gnome 00:16:56.799 --> 00:16:59.119 and Cosmic, what's the thing that people are missing? 00:16:59.599 --> 00:17:03.599 The highlight of Cosmic is that it adapts to whatever your workflow happens 00:17:03.599 --> 00:17:09.919 to be, and it has all this ability to do that, but none of it feels overwhelming. It all feels natural. 00:17:10.179 --> 00:17:15.719 It's really – it's easy to get in the weeds. Sometimes I think people use cosmic 00:17:15.719 --> 00:17:21.559 and they say, well, there's not like a lot of new things in here. 00:17:21.659 --> 00:17:24.639 I think it's because the design is just so good. 00:17:25.512 --> 00:17:29.132 That when you get to using it and moving things around, it just all works, 00:17:29.132 --> 00:17:36.232 and it just feels so simple and natural that the innovation is taking all these 00:17:36.232 --> 00:17:39.792 advanced concepts and making them that approachable to every single user. 00:17:39.972 --> 00:17:47.632 So you don't have to be an engineer to take advantage of tiling or to theme 00:17:47.632 --> 00:17:50.712 your system and make it look exactly the way you want it to look. 00:17:50.952 --> 00:17:54.532 You can go in and, without being overwhelmed by a whole bunch of settings, 00:17:54.532 --> 00:18:00.072 click a few things, and then you have a dramatically different workflow or experience, 00:18:00.672 --> 00:18:02.212 based on what feels right to you. 00:18:02.332 --> 00:18:06.512 And it's so easy to switch between different styles of using Cosmic, 00:18:06.532 --> 00:18:09.972 whether you want to launch apps with the launcher and switch between them, 00:18:10.032 --> 00:18:14.512 or if you want to use the application library, or if you prefer to use workspaces 00:18:14.512 --> 00:18:18.952 or not use workspaces or use tiling or use a hybrid tiling and some, 00:18:19.152 --> 00:18:24.912 you know, maybe tiling on your external display and floating on your laptop display. 00:18:25.712 --> 00:18:31.372 Whatever fits right for you. It's just very easy and natural to set it up and 00:18:31.372 --> 00:18:32.352 to try different things. 00:18:32.792 --> 00:18:36.432 And to me, there's kind of three things in addition to that. 00:18:36.732 --> 00:18:44.392 We're trying to make, or what Cosmic does is make computing fun and productive and personal. 00:18:45.589 --> 00:18:50.849 And it kind of takes some effort to make computing fun. 00:18:50.909 --> 00:18:55.369 We spend so much time on our computers. They should be fun to spend time at. 00:18:56.069 --> 00:19:02.929 We're at them for hours. And so for me, fun is customizing my theme, 00:19:03.349 --> 00:19:07.029 changing my layout, trying different things. I enjoy doing that stuff. 00:19:07.189 --> 00:19:09.689 For other people, it's gaming. So we want to make sure gaming is fantastic. 00:19:10.749 --> 00:19:15.889 For other people, what might matter the most is I don't have to click four things to log out. 00:19:16.589 --> 00:19:21.029 In Cosmic, you just click the button, click log out. 00:19:21.789 --> 00:19:26.149 Everything is a shorter path to what you need in Cosmic than a lot of other 00:19:26.149 --> 00:19:27.989 operating system experiences. 00:19:28.249 --> 00:19:30.769 Jeremy, I'm curious if you have anything to add on what people are missing when 00:19:30.769 --> 00:19:33.729 they're comparing the different desktop environments today and they're thinking 00:19:33.729 --> 00:19:36.909 about Cosmic or they're comparing Cosmic to Plasma or GNOME or things like that. 00:19:37.029 --> 00:19:41.489 Well, one thing I think I see as missing is people judge, often they judge Cosmic 00:19:41.489 --> 00:19:45.689 based on its current state, when they should be looking forwards to the future. 00:19:46.509 --> 00:19:51.049 Every release that we do, we will have a feature cycle where we build up a large 00:19:51.049 --> 00:19:53.789 number of features. And I don't think we've ever told anybody no. 00:19:55.109 --> 00:20:00.389 We just say, no, this is not how we want to do it, but we will try to adjust to that use case. 00:20:00.529 --> 00:20:05.029 And there's so many cases where, like when I think about all the accessibility work we did, 00:20:05.149 --> 00:20:09.649 that was really one where we had to toe the line between how do we make sure 00:20:09.649 --> 00:20:14.129 everything is there for every person who could potentially use this product 00:20:14.129 --> 00:20:17.509 and every potential issue they may have with the product, 00:20:17.749 --> 00:20:24.369 but still make the default experience good for the largest number of people. 00:20:24.549 --> 00:20:29.389 And yeah, that's what I wish people would consider is how would you see this 00:20:29.389 --> 00:20:31.189 modular desktop environment evolve 00:20:31.189 --> 00:20:34.649 into the future rather rather than judging it by how it is right now. 00:20:34.869 --> 00:20:39.909 Also add to that, when you have an established customer base and user base like 00:20:39.909 --> 00:20:41.969 Pop! OS has and System76 has. 00:20:44.112 --> 00:20:48.672 It's not like starting from scratch with no users and building something new. 00:20:48.872 --> 00:20:51.952 You have a responsibility to what their experience already has been and what 00:20:51.952 --> 00:20:54.412 their experience is going to be when you deliver something new to them. 00:20:54.912 --> 00:20:59.912 And so when we're building Cosmic, we're building a platform that's going to be familiar to them. 00:21:00.012 --> 00:21:03.232 But once you get into Cosmic, you realize that this platform, 00:21:03.332 --> 00:21:06.412 because of the way it can be composed and the way it's modular, 00:21:06.632 --> 00:21:09.112 it can actually become anything that you want it to be. 00:21:09.112 --> 00:21:15.072 And that's, I think, what will be its key feature and what people will really 00:21:15.072 --> 00:21:19.252 appreciate long term is I see folks say, it looks like Mac. 00:21:20.272 --> 00:21:26.372 It looks like GNOME. It looks like KDE. It looks like this. 00:21:26.852 --> 00:21:31.152 Exactly. It does. It can look like any one of those. 00:21:31.552 --> 00:21:35.592 And to get that layout that you really enjoy and that you prefer to use, 00:21:35.632 --> 00:21:41.052 it's just so simple that you can just lay it out the way you want. 00:21:41.792 --> 00:21:44.532 So, yeah, it's unique in that way. 00:21:44.732 --> 00:21:50.712 I guess I'm sort of surprised we've been talking and the architecture hasn't 00:21:50.712 --> 00:21:53.792 come up, Rust hasn't come up, the way the system settings are stored, 00:21:53.852 --> 00:21:55.752 which is kind of different and unique, hasn't come up. 00:21:56.172 --> 00:21:58.672 Jeremy, can you touch on some of that for us? Yeah, absolutely. 00:21:58.672 --> 00:22:02.132 So we try as much as possible to keep things modular. 00:22:02.852 --> 00:22:06.092 And this is another thing where I want to see it evolve over time. 00:22:06.252 --> 00:22:10.272 Like we just added third-party applets into the Cosmic Store. So you can go in. 00:22:10.412 --> 00:22:14.092 These are things that anybody can make, and they're securely added to the panel 00:22:14.092 --> 00:22:17.132 because they're flat packs and they're sandboxed. 00:22:17.292 --> 00:22:22.212 So every applet that you get from the applet store, you can add to the panel. 00:22:22.412 --> 00:22:25.432 You can create docks and panels anywhere you want on the system, 00:22:25.432 --> 00:22:31.112 on any display, any number. and Carl is laughing right now. 00:22:32.492 --> 00:22:35.012 I would definitely have too many. I'll be that guy. I admit it. 00:22:35.572 --> 00:22:39.752 You'd have the like 1990s browser toolbar kind of look. 00:22:39.992 --> 00:22:44.112 Yeah. Oh, yeah. And so the ability to have every single one of those be a separate 00:22:44.112 --> 00:22:48.152 process and be in its own sandbox means that they can be written in any language. 00:22:48.552 --> 00:22:54.532 So the Rust aspect of Cosmic actually doesn't matter as much as people want 00:22:54.532 --> 00:22:59.052 it to be, especially now that Rust has become like a political statement somehow. 00:22:59.472 --> 00:23:04.092 I don't care, I have my own politics, but Rust is just a programming language, 00:23:04.092 --> 00:23:07.212 and the purpose of it is to drive memory safety. 00:23:07.412 --> 00:23:11.972 And the reason we're using it is because it allows us to say these types of 00:23:11.972 --> 00:23:14.812 bugs cannot exist in safe Rust code. 00:23:15.012 --> 00:23:19.992 And so long as we're writing safe Rust code, then we eliminate those bugs or 00:23:19.992 --> 00:23:26.072 at least reduce the prevalence of bugs overall in the entire desktop environment. This... 00:23:26.489 --> 00:23:29.709 The config mechanism is another interesting part of it. 00:23:30.069 --> 00:23:34.649 It's one that was driven by portability and modularity. 00:23:34.949 --> 00:23:39.789 It's how can we make it so that the same config mechanism could be used by Cosmic 00:23:39.789 --> 00:23:42.889 apps, regardless of what operating system they're running on. 00:23:43.029 --> 00:23:47.489 So they're running on Windows, macOS, Linux, BSD, it doesn't matter. 00:23:47.749 --> 00:23:52.469 They don't need a third-party service to exist. They don't need a daemon setup. 00:23:52.609 --> 00:23:54.429 They don't need dconf to exist. 00:23:55.129 --> 00:23:59.969 They just need to be able to write to files and so we have a flat file format 00:23:59.969 --> 00:24:04.289 where they just write out in the Rust object notation format, 00:24:04.789 --> 00:24:08.629 to those files and you can manage those files in a Git repository if you'd like 00:24:08.629 --> 00:24:12.069 to or in any way you want to sync files between systems. 00:24:12.969 --> 00:24:17.489 And you can diff those files very easily they're all plain text and another 00:24:17.489 --> 00:24:21.949 thing that we've done is to ensure that all the state is separated out from 00:24:21.949 --> 00:24:27.329 the config and what I mean by state is if you're in KDE and you're trying to 00:24:27.329 --> 00:24:28.749 manage your config files, you might, 00:24:29.149 --> 00:24:34.909 for instance, notice that the size of every console window is stored. 00:24:34.969 --> 00:24:39.689 The last window size is stored in the same config file that saves things like 00:24:39.689 --> 00:24:42.529 your keyboard shortcuts for the console application. 00:24:42.769 --> 00:24:45.289 So we've separated those kinds of things out. 00:24:45.529 --> 00:24:53.609 Recent files would be stored in state versus the theme settings would be stored in config. 00:24:53.809 --> 00:24:57.849 And that ensures that you're able to sync those config settings without bringing 00:24:57.849 --> 00:25:01.109 over state that doesn't necessarily apply between computers. 00:25:01.369 --> 00:25:06.909 Yeah, I think that extends to our lack of requirement for system D as well. 00:25:07.909 --> 00:25:14.929 The portability means that Cosmic will be a great desktop for BSDs. It works on Redox. 00:25:15.089 --> 00:25:22.929 And so we try to make decisions that don't eliminate its use in other platforms. Yeah, I'm just curious. 00:25:23.149 --> 00:25:26.289 How's it been? It seems like Cosmic's spreading its wings to a lot of other 00:25:26.289 --> 00:25:30.029 platforms and distributions. Have you gotten good feedback from people trying to package it? 00:25:30.149 --> 00:25:33.769 I've gotten feedback and it may be anecdotal that this is the easiest desktop 00:25:33.769 --> 00:25:37.509 environment to port to package overall. Yeah. 00:25:38.340 --> 00:25:43.000 There were a few hiccups with Rust in the start, like Fedora wanted to bundle 00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:47.340 all the Rust, take all the Rust dependencies and turn them into dynamic libraries. 00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:51.360 But then they changed their mind, and now they're allowing those to be compiled 00:25:51.360 --> 00:25:54.500 by Cargo, just the native Rust build system. 00:25:54.740 --> 00:26:01.300 And so, yeah, it's spread across to Arch, to OpenSUSE, Nix, to Alpine, 00:26:01.500 --> 00:26:07.580 to Fedora, and onwards because it is very easy to port and it has very limited 00:26:07.580 --> 00:26:09.460 dependencies on the system. 00:26:09.900 --> 00:26:11.980 All right, well, I'm just looking forward to playing around with it. Thanks, guys. 00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:18.600 Yeah, really, a big thank you to everyone over at System76 for making time on 00:26:18.600 --> 00:26:19.960 our last-minute scheduled stop. 00:26:20.700 --> 00:26:23.900 And I'm going to give it a go. I walked away pretty impressed. 00:26:23.980 --> 00:26:27.440 One of the things that impressed me the most is the way they've implemented applets. 00:26:27.560 --> 00:26:33.500 And that's, to me, a massive innovation in the desktop space is essentially 00:26:33.500 --> 00:26:36.400 any Flatpak app with the right dimensions. It's a Wayland application. 00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:39.980 Yeah, as long as you can draw a window on the screen and, you know, 00:26:40.060 --> 00:26:41.700 it has the right interfaces. It'll work. 00:26:41.760 --> 00:26:47.820 You can make it an applet. And the massive ramification of that is all the dependencies, 00:26:48.180 --> 00:26:50.440 your language, all of that's handled by, you know, the Flatpak. 00:26:50.600 --> 00:26:54.660 But it also means if the desktop updates, your extensions are, 00:26:54.800 --> 00:26:58.500 unless something changes in the XTG portals, your extensions aren't going to break. 00:26:59.080 --> 00:27:05.340 It's a brilliant, genius way to do extensions on a desktop that works with a 00:27:05.340 --> 00:27:08.440 desktop that might be quasi-rolling on some systems. 00:27:08.700 --> 00:27:11.680 Yeah, stay tuned. We'll see if we can get Chris to Vibecode in a little extension. 00:27:11.960 --> 00:27:16.020 So I've been running Plasma and Aurora here on my main machine in the studio, 00:27:16.020 --> 00:27:19.900 and I think we're going to nix Cosmic it up, and I'm going to give Cosmic a 00:27:19.900 --> 00:27:22.980 go on this, see if I can kind of replicate a workflow I really like in the studio 00:27:22.980 --> 00:27:25.720 with it. I was just really impressed. 00:27:27.100 --> 00:27:29.440 Anything stand out to you gentlemen about cosmic. 00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:32.380 Yeah i mean i still really want to sit and live with it for 00:27:32.380 --> 00:27:35.260 a while to give it a proper test of course um but yeah just 00:27:35.260 --> 00:27:41.440 you know watching carl use his cosmic watching him kind of live tweak it and 00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:45.140 change it in front of us with i mean he wasn't even really sitting in front 00:27:45.140 --> 00:27:48.240 in front of a proper workstation environment he's kind of having to you know 00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:52.160 show us the screen and tweak things as part of the presentation so if you can 00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:52.980 do it in that environment, 00:27:53.120 --> 00:27:55.880 it seems like now we have this lean, 00:27:56.320 --> 00:27:58.460 mean, portable, flexible environment. 00:27:58.580 --> 00:28:01.940 So even if it doesn't end up maybe being your daily driver on every machine, 00:28:02.060 --> 00:28:05.280 it seems like a very useful tool that you can kind of take with you. 00:28:05.540 --> 00:28:12.000 For me, I was really impressed by their dedication to like the design of the 00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:13.060 architecture on the backend. 00:28:13.560 --> 00:28:16.840 And they specifically said, you know, we're trying to make production software. 00:28:16.900 --> 00:28:19.620 And so we want to do it right, even if it takes longer. 00:28:20.080 --> 00:28:25.940 And I think that philosophy is really playing out in a nice way now with Cosmic 00:28:25.940 --> 00:28:31.700 coming into beta and us getting that behind the scenes look of how it's built. 00:28:32.060 --> 00:28:36.780 And that also means they've been working really closely with a bunch of upstream that, 00:28:37.722 --> 00:28:43.162 found really impressive and is just making our linux ecosystem better overall 00:28:43.162 --> 00:28:44.762 so i was really impressed by all of that. 00:28:44.762 --> 00:28:49.482 I think too one of the things that i took away from it is there's components 00:28:49.482 --> 00:28:52.982 that people might end up using even if they don't use the entire cosmic desktop 00:28:52.982 --> 00:28:56.762 of so on hyperland you don't really have a file manager you get to pick and 00:28:56.762 --> 00:29:00.422 choose and one of the things i experimented with is i installed the cosmic file 00:29:00.422 --> 00:29:03.742 manager because it It doesn't require nearly as much as, say, 00:29:03.862 --> 00:29:06.342 Dolphin or Files does from GNOME. 00:29:06.602 --> 00:29:09.502 And it worked really well. So there's components they're working on here that 00:29:09.502 --> 00:29:13.202 are pretty portable. But as you also heard Carl say, they don't have a system 00:29:13.202 --> 00:29:18.682 D dependency, not as a political statement, but just as a function of how they've built it. 00:29:18.762 --> 00:29:23.242 Which means perhaps this will be available for desktops that want a modern desktop 00:29:23.242 --> 00:29:24.962 that don't have system D in the distro. 00:29:25.162 --> 00:29:29.002 Or maybe one of the BSDs out there that obviously won't have system D. 00:29:29.002 --> 00:29:32.322 And so it has that's kind of encouraging that way because it has some potential 00:29:32.322 --> 00:29:36.922 audience that maybe modern gnome and plasma are are leaving behind. 00:29:36.922 --> 00:29:40.022 I have to say i was also really quite impressed by 00:29:40.022 --> 00:29:42.662 just how many resources they're putting to the 00:29:42.662 --> 00:29:45.902 desktop they mentioned 10 people working on cosmic 00:29:45.902 --> 00:29:48.862 full-time including qa of course and i 00:29:48.862 --> 00:29:51.842 specifically carl said well we actually like 00:29:51.842 --> 00:29:54.502 that to be like three or four times that size in the 00:29:54.502 --> 00:29:57.302 future and so they're really dedicating to this 00:29:57.302 --> 00:30:00.582 desktop which is yeah really impressive 00:30:00.582 --> 00:30:03.782 yeah and i love too that uh 00:30:03.782 --> 00:30:07.942 their philosophy towards a rolling release desktop he mentioned that a couple 00:30:07.942 --> 00:30:13.502 times and the idea that the desktop can be decoupled from the distro and that's 00:30:13.502 --> 00:30:17.902 the way they're building it even for pop os was a really interesting concept 00:30:17.902 --> 00:30:20.962 and i think has a lot of really interesting benefits so. 00:30:20.962 --> 00:30:24.602 I'll give it a go and report back in the future after I've had some time with Cosmic. 00:30:25.522 --> 00:30:30.642 And before we even got out of the parking lot at System 76, our good buddy, 00:30:30.782 --> 00:30:33.982 Editor Drew, showed up for a quick reunite while we were in town. 00:30:35.582 --> 00:30:38.242 And, well, I think we'll get into what happened afterwards later. 00:30:38.842 --> 00:30:43.802 Look who it is, boys! Hey, is that Drew? It's that guy who makes us knock down like shit. Hey! 00:30:44.862 --> 00:30:47.942 Hello! Hello! Good to see you. 00:30:48.722 --> 00:30:53.022 It's been like two years, three years, eight years? We saw him for... 00:30:53.022 --> 00:30:55.602 No, it's less for you because we were here for Denver like two years. 00:30:55.962 --> 00:30:59.502 Oh, right, yeah, for the red hats. We didn't see you much. Still looking handsome as ever. 00:31:00.422 --> 00:31:04.702 What do you got there? That's for you, right? Oh, it's a DC to DC charger. 00:31:06.442 --> 00:31:09.642 That sounds like one. After you're alternating, you got a whole new project. 00:31:09.862 --> 00:31:12.622 Should we open it? That's very exciting. He needs this. 00:31:14.362 --> 00:31:17.522 Just to get you to stop bugging him and buy it. It looks great, Brent. Huh? Yeah. 00:31:17.942 --> 00:31:20.622 It looks like it's in great shape. Oh, I know how it does. Yeah, 00:31:20.762 --> 00:31:24.042 yeah, that's great. Has this thing even been used? No, it looks beautiful. 00:31:24.422 --> 00:31:26.482 Yeah, it's half the price of everything else. 00:31:27.102 --> 00:31:32.482 Assuming it works, I think it might be okay. Yeah, good. There you go. I'm going blue. 00:31:33.622 --> 00:31:35.882 I mean, look how clean it is. Yeah, yeah, no kidding. 00:31:38.770 --> 00:31:41.910 Yeah, seriously, that looks like that's never been used. I mean, look at the labels. 00:31:42.110 --> 00:31:43.530 The person selling it only had 00:31:43.530 --> 00:31:49.950 one other eBay item, which was like a Louis Vuitton super high-end purse. 00:31:50.210 --> 00:31:53.850 So I was banging on the back, I didn't know what they were doing. Yeah, no kidding. 00:31:55.390 --> 00:31:58.110 Well, what do you think of the van? This is your first time seeing it in person, 00:31:58.230 --> 00:32:01.770 right? It is, yeah. What do you think? It's a van. 00:32:02.750 --> 00:32:06.870 Can we get more descriptors? A little bit of rust. Yeah. 00:32:08.310 --> 00:32:12.590 It's a vibe no i mean you know it's it's it's it's. 00:32:12.590 --> 00:32:17.410 An old ram you know it's an old ram he says um you know so just a quick side 00:32:17.410 --> 00:32:20.190 again i'm so grateful to the audience for making this trip possible gave us 00:32:20.190 --> 00:32:23.750 a chance to reunite with drew which is always really good to just reconnect, 00:32:24.390 --> 00:32:30.410 and brent then began to work his magic he gave drew the tour of the van so we 00:32:30.410 --> 00:32:34.970 captured editor drew's post van tour impressions to see if they improved so. 00:32:34.970 --> 00:32:37.910 Now that you've had the full tour Or what's the refined opinion? 00:32:38.130 --> 00:32:41.710 Dude, it's awesome. Really? You get them. Yes. You got them to come around. 00:32:42.590 --> 00:32:45.450 I mean, you know, I kind of figured it would be one of those things where, 00:32:45.610 --> 00:32:48.530 like, you're looking at it from the outside, and it doesn't look like much. 00:32:48.530 --> 00:32:50.270 It looks like a 30-year-old van. 00:32:50.630 --> 00:32:53.910 But then you get inside, and it's like, hey, look at this. 00:32:54.130 --> 00:32:57.570 This thing's cool. This thing's cool. This thing's cool. Every direction you 00:32:57.570 --> 00:33:01.150 look, there's something cool. There's something weird. It's just, yeah, it's awesome. 00:33:01.290 --> 00:33:03.970 So you got them. You turned them around, Brent. Good job. 00:33:04.230 --> 00:33:07.470 Well, thank you. Yeah, I was a little, I got to say, underwhelmed by his initial 00:33:07.470 --> 00:33:10.750 reaction. I was like, this won't do. We got to work harder here. 00:33:10.910 --> 00:33:14.510 And sure enough, I got him with the home assistant in the cover there. 00:33:14.570 --> 00:33:18.010 He's like, how do you fit that in there? And he's really impressed. So thanks, Drew. 00:33:18.530 --> 00:33:23.770 Yes, it was really great to see you, Drew. Wes and I, however, we had to roll. 00:33:23.990 --> 00:33:27.590 We still had 22 hours to get it back to the studio, which meant driving through 00:33:27.590 --> 00:33:33.630 most of Montana, most of Wyoming, and of course, all of Idaho and Washington. 00:33:33.630 --> 00:33:36.450 We really had to put down, like, significant miles. 00:33:37.010 --> 00:33:39.390 And when we left, it was a little sad. 00:33:40.330 --> 00:33:46.450 Okay, Wes and I are in my car. We are leaving Brent behind with Drew. So I... 00:33:48.265 --> 00:33:51.285 We'll be out of Denver probably in the next two hours or so because traffic's 00:33:51.285 --> 00:33:54.925 pretty bad. So an hour or so. How long do you think until Brent's out of Denver? 00:33:55.645 --> 00:34:00.405 Well, he's about to go to lunch or really dinner at this point with Drew. 00:34:01.465 --> 00:34:05.605 Is he going to leave Denver at like 8 p.m. at night? Probably not. 00:34:05.765 --> 00:34:06.985 So that's at least tomorrow. 00:34:07.625 --> 00:34:11.385 But, you know, we ended up fixing on his brakes instead of fixing on his belts 00:34:11.385 --> 00:34:13.405 or his alternator, which he also has a new one. 00:34:14.205 --> 00:34:17.185 And, you know. Maybe he gets working on that. Maybe he gets working on that. 00:34:17.665 --> 00:34:21.965 I think he doesn't leave till tomorrow. I'm betting, I'm betting Friday. 00:34:22.685 --> 00:34:24.165 Okay, Brent's survey says. 00:34:26.565 --> 00:34:30.705 Well, yeah, Drew and I had an amazing time together and we might have had sushi 00:34:30.705 --> 00:34:33.505 and sake and like lots of chats and stuff. 00:34:33.605 --> 00:34:39.105 And then I was like, I may as well just stay overnight. But I didn't really have a plan for that. 00:34:39.745 --> 00:34:43.845 So I have to say thank you to System76 for letting me sleep in their parking lot. 00:34:44.345 --> 00:34:47.585 Really nice parking lot. I gotta say nice and quiet other than the loudspeaker 00:34:47.585 --> 00:34:52.125 that comes on at 5.30 in the morning and says, Hey, you're being recorded on video. 00:34:52.585 --> 00:34:58.345 So highly recommended. They were kind enough to not bother me in the morning. 00:34:58.545 --> 00:35:04.625 And so I got going in the morning, but, you know, I forgot some of my stuff in Drew's car. 00:35:04.785 --> 00:35:09.865 So I had to, you know, see Drew again. And he had a whole beautiful, 00:35:09.865 --> 00:35:16.085 like, care package for me of, like, van supplies. things he thought would be 00:35:16.085 --> 00:35:18.545 helpful, including a giant bundle of rope. 00:35:18.765 --> 00:35:21.445 And it was really sweet. Yeah. 00:35:22.025 --> 00:35:26.425 Wow. She was so great. Wow. Well, so we were putting down miles. 00:35:27.005 --> 00:35:33.365 Wes and I on the route home totally leaned in to take advantage of tactical wife planning. 00:35:33.645 --> 00:35:37.685 She was great because she was watching us on the tracker. And so she was constantly 00:35:37.685 --> 00:35:41.845 looking into, okay, there's an Airbnb about an hour out or two hours out from you. 00:35:41.945 --> 00:35:44.365 You have these options. And then we would say, yeah, we'll make it this far. 00:35:44.425 --> 00:35:45.465 Then she'd book it for us. 00:35:46.025 --> 00:35:49.325 And all the details would just be handled for us. And we'd just show up and crash. 00:35:49.425 --> 00:35:52.965 Yeah, we got a message with the door code and the Wi-Fi. Incredible. 00:35:53.305 --> 00:35:57.205 Yeah, so we were able to move pretty quick because we had to. 00:35:57.245 --> 00:35:58.965 We wanted to make it back here in time for John. 00:35:59.525 --> 00:36:03.565 It's the final push of the trip. Wes and I are in Washington State, 00:36:03.845 --> 00:36:05.125 in eastern Washington State. 00:36:05.685 --> 00:36:07.825 We stopped at Wes's absolute favorite restaurant. 00:36:08.525 --> 00:36:12.205 Burger King. When the king tells you to get breakfast, you stop, you listen. 00:36:12.605 --> 00:36:18.625 So we filled up with gas, ordered some fully loaded croissant-wiches. Our way. 00:36:18.925 --> 00:36:21.905 Yeah, always our way, and we're waiting on some, 00:36:23.576 --> 00:36:26.516 I assume the syrup's really good, and I wanted to get that. 00:36:27.976 --> 00:36:32.596 Oh, Wes is grabbing the French toast sticks. So we have about five hours or so on the road. 00:36:32.776 --> 00:36:36.396 I probably have another six or seven after I drop Wes off. I'll have another 00:36:36.396 --> 00:36:38.916 couple hours. So six or seven hours total for me. 00:36:39.736 --> 00:36:42.616 And then the trip's all done. No idea where Brent's headed right now. 00:36:43.376 --> 00:36:46.276 He's going in the opposite direction of home, so we'll figure that out at some point. 00:36:47.936 --> 00:36:49.356 But hopefully he's having a good time. 00:36:50.796 --> 00:36:56.176 It was a great time. And so Brent's total hours on the trip driving, 00:36:56.476 --> 00:37:02.656 you put in a massive 59.44 hours of continuous drive time. 00:37:02.756 --> 00:37:04.976 That's like active motion time, right? 00:37:05.276 --> 00:37:12.516 Yeah. Yeah. And Wes and I put in a total drive time of 75.4 hours. 00:37:12.976 --> 00:37:17.016 Which actually, I turned off the tracker in Seattle. So I continued to drive 00:37:17.016 --> 00:37:18.336 for another couple hours after that. 00:37:18.436 --> 00:37:22.056 Yeah, that means you ended up driving for probably over eight hours that last day. Sorry. 00:37:22.256 --> 00:37:26.816 Yeah, yeah. Really amazing that there was really no incidents or any problems 00:37:26.816 --> 00:37:29.276 and that it went so smoothly and that we got to do the meetups. 00:37:29.336 --> 00:37:30.756 We just want to do more of it next time. 00:37:30.876 --> 00:37:34.396 We want to do more meetups on the route, maybe different routes and things like 00:37:34.396 --> 00:37:39.296 that because it was great and everything worked out. We made it back here just in time. 00:37:43.376 --> 00:37:47.936 Onepassword.com slash unplugged. That's the number one password.com and then 00:37:47.936 --> 00:37:52.156 unplugged, all lowercase. Go take the first steps to better security for your 00:37:52.156 --> 00:37:55.456 team by securing credentials and protecting every application, 00:37:55.716 --> 00:37:57.556 even unmanaged shadow IT. 00:37:57.756 --> 00:38:02.516 It really does change everything. Learn more at 1password.com slash unplugged. 00:38:02.576 --> 00:38:05.996 If you're in security, you're in IT, you know that you have a mountain of assets to protect. 00:38:06.116 --> 00:38:11.276 You know there's so many devices and identities and applications. It's a lot these days. 00:38:11.716 --> 00:38:15.116 It really does create a mountain of security risks as well. Fortunately, 00:38:15.456 --> 00:38:20.936 you can conquer that mountain of security risk with 1Password Extended Access Management. 00:38:21.136 --> 00:38:23.876 It's a real problem IT is trying to tackle right now. 00:38:24.256 --> 00:38:27.436 Shadow IT is contractor accounts, applications you didn't know got created, 00:38:27.536 --> 00:38:29.076 credentials you didn't know were being used. 00:38:29.516 --> 00:38:32.656 Well, thankfully, Trellica by 1Password can discover all of this, 00:38:32.936 --> 00:38:36.016 secure access to your apps, managed or not. 00:38:36.316 --> 00:38:40.996 Trellica by 1Password inventories every app in use at your company. 00:38:41.576 --> 00:38:45.976 Think of that. and they have pre-populated app profiles to assess SaaS security risks. 00:38:46.276 --> 00:38:49.916 They let you manage access, optimize your spend and make sure you're not doing 00:38:49.916 --> 00:38:51.816 any redundant accounts and services. 00:38:52.919 --> 00:38:57.939 You can also enforce security best practices. And there's a secure and simple 00:38:57.939 --> 00:39:00.859 onboarding and offboarding process. It makes it easier for IT. 00:39:01.039 --> 00:39:03.919 It makes it easier for your employees. Everyone gets more efficient. 00:39:04.439 --> 00:39:08.659 And you've got a solution to manage that shadow IT. That's the big thing. 00:39:08.839 --> 00:39:12.779 It's just one of the ways extended access management from 1Password helps strengthen 00:39:12.779 --> 00:39:14.199 compliance and security. 00:39:14.639 --> 00:39:18.679 It's not easy to really understand what your spend is and how many different 00:39:18.679 --> 00:39:22.939 applications your users are using to do their job. But Trellica by 1Password 00:39:22.939 --> 00:39:24.019 can help you take control. 00:39:24.179 --> 00:39:27.899 It gives you visibility, gives you automated workflows, and cost optimization. 00:39:28.319 --> 00:39:31.539 You can check compliance off your list with Trellica by 1Password. 00:39:31.939 --> 00:39:34.819 Employees are empowered to be secure with flexible app access, 00:39:34.939 --> 00:39:37.759 and you can manage it all. It really is great. 00:39:37.879 --> 00:39:41.559 If I had this when I was in IT, you know, I think I could have stayed in. 00:39:41.619 --> 00:39:43.819 I might still be in. It really is awesome. 00:39:43.939 --> 00:39:47.079 Go take the first step to better security for your team by securing credentials 00:39:47.079 --> 00:39:48.679 and protecting every application. 00:39:48.999 --> 00:39:52.659 Even the unmanaged Teatro IT stuff. Go learn more, support the show. 00:39:53.099 --> 00:39:58.659 Go to 1password.com slash unplugged. That is the number 1password.com slash 00:39:58.659 --> 00:40:00.159 unplugged, all lowercase. 00:40:00.559 --> 00:40:03.119 1password.com slash unplugged. 00:40:06.219 --> 00:40:12.019 While we were on the road, Ubuntu 25.10 was released, and we had a chance to 00:40:12.019 --> 00:40:17.519 sit down with John Seeger, VP of Engineering at Canonical, and get the inside scoop. 00:40:21.012 --> 00:40:25.252 John's back on the program. It's been just since the beginning of the year we 00:40:25.252 --> 00:40:29.932 were talking and it's a big week because Ubuntu 25.10 is out. 00:40:30.712 --> 00:40:35.292 And John, in your release, you say Ubuntu 25.10 is a statement on the intent 00:40:35.292 --> 00:40:38.132 for the next Ubuntu LTS in 2026. 00:40:38.612 --> 00:40:41.092 It sounds like a big deal. Welcome back to the program, sir. 00:40:41.192 --> 00:40:42.452 Thanks very much for having me. It's good to be back. 00:40:42.592 --> 00:40:44.872 So what do you mean when you say it's a statement of intent? 00:40:45.272 --> 00:40:49.112 Are we to say, is that to say like what's in this release today is what we should 00:40:49.112 --> 00:40:51.712 expect in the LTS? Or what do we mean by that? 00:40:51.852 --> 00:40:56.172 I think it's two things, right? So yes, indeed, the things that you see in this 00:40:56.172 --> 00:40:59.992 release, some of which are a little more testy, and the plan is to get those 00:40:59.992 --> 00:41:03.672 stable and kind of well understood in the hope that we can ship them for the LTS. 00:41:03.912 --> 00:41:09.472 But it also marks, I think, hopefully what I think will be a change in Ubuntu 00:41:09.472 --> 00:41:13.912 where we try to have slightly more exciting releases going forward. 00:41:14.072 --> 00:41:17.692 So we have to dial back that excitement a little bit for the LTS and go a little 00:41:17.692 --> 00:41:22.332 bit harder on the kind of reliability and stability that our LTS customers expect. 00:41:22.692 --> 00:41:27.752 But my observation when I came into sort of looking after Ubuntu at Canonical 00:41:27.752 --> 00:41:31.152 was that the interim releases have kind of stopped being so crazy. 00:41:31.312 --> 00:41:34.972 And I'd like to make them crazy again, because I think we're in a position where 00:41:34.972 --> 00:41:37.672 we can use our extraordinary user base and, you know, 00:41:37.892 --> 00:41:42.212 rather excellent community to push certain things that might actually have an 00:41:42.212 --> 00:41:46.772 impact beyond just ubuntu right like it's not just about ubuntu it's about uh 00:41:46.772 --> 00:41:50.312 trying to advance linux in general whether that be on the server or the desktop 00:41:50.312 --> 00:41:52.032 or devices or whatever that might be. 00:41:52.572 --> 00:41:56.612 So how does that manifest then because one of the things that i know you've 00:41:56.612 --> 00:42:01.172 been focusing on is sort of a faster release cadence i think monthly snapshots 00:42:01.172 --> 00:42:06.352 do you view it as you put those contributions into ubuntu and hope that the 00:42:06.352 --> 00:42:08.632 wider linux community takes them upstream, 00:42:09.252 --> 00:42:13.372 or is it is it more fundamental like the tooling you're choosing and you're 00:42:13.372 --> 00:42:16.472 hoping to have an impact there like can you expand on what you mean by that. 00:42:17.306 --> 00:42:22.746 Yeah, so the two are somewhat different. The monthly releasing is based on some 00:42:22.746 --> 00:42:25.346 wisdom that I have picked up over the years working with software teams, 00:42:25.506 --> 00:42:29.746 which is, if releasing is hard, you should do it more. And releasing was hard. 00:42:30.586 --> 00:42:32.826 Releasing Ubuntu was something we only did every six months. 00:42:32.846 --> 00:42:35.246 It was a relatively dated process. 00:42:35.586 --> 00:42:39.026 And I wanted to modernize that process. And 00:42:39.026 --> 00:42:41.786 only getting a chance to think about that process every 00:42:41.786 --> 00:42:44.526 six months is not necessarily very conducive to us 00:42:44.526 --> 00:42:47.546 making it any better so the monthly releases was really 00:42:47.546 --> 00:42:50.786 a tool for the release management team that may not have felt like 00:42:50.786 --> 00:42:53.786 that for them the first time it was a tool for them to understand their own 00:42:53.786 --> 00:42:57.266 process better and improve their understanding and it really shows so this time 00:42:57.266 --> 00:43:00.666 we have a release sprint when we release them to we we get together a few of 00:43:00.666 --> 00:43:05.266 us in our london office and this time we were all done like hours early just 00:43:05.266 --> 00:43:08.086 waiting to release the press release at the time we said we would release and 00:43:08.086 --> 00:43:10.546 that has basically never happened as far as i can tell, 00:43:12.106 --> 00:43:16.006 the tooling side of things is more where i want to push so this is things like 00:43:16.006 --> 00:43:20.366 the rust core utils and the rust sudo implementation and potentially some of 00:43:20.366 --> 00:43:24.166 the work we're doing around tpm full disk encryption and a few other initiatives like that. 00:43:24.166 --> 00:43:27.166 I see so i would 00:43:27.166 --> 00:43:30.506 not i don't i don't really know but to me it would seem like what 00:43:30.506 --> 00:43:36.546 you're trying to do is push on processes that were designed to improve stability 00:43:36.546 --> 00:43:41.306 and reliability of the release so have you gotten pushback saying john you're 00:43:41.306 --> 00:43:45.066 changing things that we put in place on purpose like we have lessons learned 00:43:45.066 --> 00:43:47.566 and that's why we do it this way and you want to change it so we can release 00:43:47.566 --> 00:43:48.786 faster has that been a problem. 00:43:49.786 --> 00:43:55.166 Um a little but i would i would temper that with i am asking questions and pushing 00:43:55.166 --> 00:43:59.586 but not not being reckless like i uh i've been asked i've been accused of trying 00:43:59.586 --> 00:44:02.026 to turn ubuntu into various these other things, like maybe Nixos, 00:44:02.126 --> 00:44:04.026 you'll have heard me waxing lyrical about that before. 00:44:04.666 --> 00:44:07.726 And that's not the purpose. The purpose is to try and understand. 00:44:09.375 --> 00:44:12.915 How we could evolve Ubuntu to give ourselves and our customers, 00:44:13.095 --> 00:44:15.895 be those, you know, tinkerers at home or our paid customers, 00:44:16.135 --> 00:44:20.555 the assurance they need that Ubuntu is the stable platform, the reliable platform, 00:44:20.695 --> 00:44:25.255 the resilient platform they want, but also delivers on the mission that Ubuntu 00:44:25.255 --> 00:44:28.775 was started with, right, which is all about delivering the very best of open 00:44:28.775 --> 00:44:29.955 source to a really wide audience. 00:44:30.155 --> 00:44:34.275 So back in the day, I wasn't around in the Linux soon then, but when Ubuntu 00:44:34.275 --> 00:44:37.755 first kind of forked off from Debian or became a downstream of Debian, 00:44:37.975 --> 00:44:42.075 the whole point was to provide an area where we could ship newer, 00:44:42.275 --> 00:44:47.055 more exciting software that perhaps was more complicated in Debian because of 00:44:47.055 --> 00:44:50.235 licensing or policy or process. 00:44:50.575 --> 00:44:53.355 And I think that's fine. I think the two should exist. 00:44:53.495 --> 00:44:56.215 I don't think Debian should do what we do. And I don't think we should do what 00:44:56.215 --> 00:44:58.755 Debian does in the same way. I don't think we should do what Arch or Next do. 00:44:58.875 --> 00:45:06.575 But that doesn't mean that the processes that we have used for the last 20 years are unchangeable. 00:45:06.795 --> 00:45:10.335 A lot has changed in software engineering in 20 years, and I would like our 00:45:10.335 --> 00:45:11.935 processes to reflect that where possible. 00:45:12.055 --> 00:45:16.315 So it's mostly about more automated testing, more automation in the release 00:45:16.315 --> 00:45:18.375 process, which should, if we do it well, 00:45:18.855 --> 00:45:21.735 enable us to have more trust in that release process, not less, 00:45:21.895 --> 00:45:26.295 I think, and spend less time on the mechanics of releasing and more time on 00:45:26.295 --> 00:45:28.235 polishing what it is that we're releasing. 00:45:28.835 --> 00:45:32.135 The release process should not be the exciting part about an Ubuntu release. 00:45:32.295 --> 00:45:35.095 The features that we ship and the tools that we ship should be the exciting piece. 00:45:35.375 --> 00:45:35.915 Amen to that. 00:45:36.095 --> 00:45:40.215 Well put. Okay, so kind of along the same lines of herding cats a little bit. 00:45:40.995 --> 00:45:43.735 I feel like there's more communication along the development process, 00:45:43.855 --> 00:45:47.975 in part from you, but others on the team were more on the form, blogging. 00:45:48.215 --> 00:45:51.555 Has that been, I don't know if mandate's the right word, has there been encouragement there? 00:45:51.635 --> 00:45:55.455 What's that communication like to people that are busy working on Ubuntu and 00:45:55.455 --> 00:45:58.675 focused on actually doing the development or doing the QA? 00:45:59.395 --> 00:46:02.395 How do you convince them we need you to be more public about what you're working 00:46:02.395 --> 00:46:04.275 on? And How's that gone over? 00:46:04.695 --> 00:46:07.935 Yeah. So I'll be honest, it kind of was a mandate to start with. 00:46:08.175 --> 00:46:11.935 I think what happened is Canonical, as it grew and became more grown up as a 00:46:11.935 --> 00:46:15.615 company, we adopted things like Google Workplace and Mattermost. 00:46:15.795 --> 00:46:19.095 And a lot of the communication that would previously have been public in IRC 00:46:19.095 --> 00:46:23.655 and on forums kind of naturally ended up in Mattermost and on Google Docs. 00:46:23.715 --> 00:46:25.835 That's where we were all hanging out as Canonical employees, right? 00:46:25.995 --> 00:46:30.815 And so I think lots of the process, lots of the discussion around Ubuntu suddenly 00:46:30.815 --> 00:46:35.295 became quite opaque. And one of my hopes was that I could change that a little bit. 00:46:35.455 --> 00:46:40.315 And so I did actually essentially mandate that every team that I look after, 00:46:40.455 --> 00:46:44.415 so that's the Ubuntu Desktop Server Foundations and more recently the DebCrafters team. 00:46:45.502 --> 00:46:49.122 I mandated essentially there should be at least a post every week from one of us. 00:46:49.522 --> 00:46:51.562 And to start with, I just did like a round robin. So I said, 00:46:51.682 --> 00:46:54.942 I'll go this week. You know, Foundation's the following week, 00:46:54.982 --> 00:46:57.462 Server the next week, DevCraft is the next week, and we'll just go on a rotation. 00:46:57.962 --> 00:47:02.422 And I think that was quite tough for the team. And I'm really proud of how they rose to that. 00:47:02.522 --> 00:47:06.162 But what's been interesting is that other people on those teams have seen the 00:47:06.162 --> 00:47:09.382 engagement that those posts were getting and the interest that it drives to 00:47:09.382 --> 00:47:12.062 the project and started following suit without me asking, right? 00:47:12.062 --> 00:47:16.342 And now I think it is quite clear that we have a group of developers in Ubuntu 00:47:16.342 --> 00:47:20.002 Engineering who want to talk about what they're doing because they find it interesting 00:47:20.002 --> 00:47:23.222 and they like it when people ask them questions about it and give discussion 00:47:23.222 --> 00:47:26.902 and thoughts for improvement and things like that. So it started out as a mandate. 00:47:27.122 --> 00:47:30.022 I do put my hand up. There is still a bit of a mandate. 00:47:30.182 --> 00:47:32.742 I do expect there to be something every week from Ubuntu Engineering, 00:47:32.762 --> 00:47:35.662 but there's much more than that happening, which I'm really pleased to see. 00:47:35.882 --> 00:47:38.602 Well, it's great to see from the outside. It feels like life. 00:47:38.902 --> 00:47:41.502 Yeah, I mean, it's good for us, just, you know, for our business. 00:47:41.502 --> 00:47:44.142 But it feels good for the community too, right? There's more to pay attention 00:47:44.142 --> 00:47:46.122 to, more to keep Ubuntu fresh in your mind. 00:47:46.322 --> 00:47:51.742 Yeah. All right, so let's talk about 2510. We've got a new GNOME 49 in there, 00:47:51.842 --> 00:47:54.242 right? So that means we're going to get a lot of nice stuff like HDR. 00:47:55.122 --> 00:47:58.922 What should we talk about with 2510? What's the big thing on your mind? 00:47:59.102 --> 00:48:02.362 The big controversial thing, perhaps controversial, I don't know, 00:48:02.482 --> 00:48:03.822 is the Rust utilities, right? 00:48:03.902 --> 00:48:09.522 So we replaced GNU Core Utils with the UUtils implementation and we replaced Sulu with Sulu RS. 00:48:09.522 --> 00:48:14.942 And they to varying degrees represent the most risk, I suppose, 00:48:15.202 --> 00:48:19.162 but I feel comfortable about it, particularly Sulu RS, which is a much tighter 00:48:19.162 --> 00:48:23.702 in scope and therefore it's easier for us to kind of reason about the impact it's likely to have. 00:48:23.982 --> 00:48:27.622 But the relationship that we've got with the UU Tools Project and the Trifecta 00:48:27.622 --> 00:48:29.322 Tech Foundation has been phenomenal. 00:48:29.682 --> 00:48:33.682 We've been speaking with them pretty much weekly, if not more regularly throughout 00:48:33.682 --> 00:48:36.682 the entire cycle. They've been super responsive to bugs and feedback. 00:48:36.902 --> 00:48:39.362 And so really I see 2510 as a bit of a proving ground. 00:48:39.822 --> 00:48:43.502 There are still a handful of utilities that we have diverted back to the GNU 00:48:43.502 --> 00:48:46.582 implementations where we see that there are issues still. 00:48:47.042 --> 00:48:49.422 Because at the end of the day, as much as I would love to push this, I don't, 00:48:49.998 --> 00:48:53.138 I'm not going to do it irresponsibly and just push broken stuff to people's machines, right? 00:48:53.238 --> 00:48:55.958 So the idea is that we would iron out all of those issues throughout this cycle, 00:48:55.978 --> 00:48:59.218 and for 2604, be as close to a full replacement as we possibly can. 00:48:59.418 --> 00:49:02.438 What do you consider to be a major issue with the REST tooling right now? 00:49:02.558 --> 00:49:06.938 So we have an issue that I think was reported on Pheronics, where there is a 00:49:06.938 --> 00:49:11.278 slight discrepancy between how the MD5 checksum tool behaves in certain cases, 00:49:11.418 --> 00:49:16.278 which impacts MakeSelf archives, which is used as part of the Pheronics test suite. 00:49:16.278 --> 00:49:19.518 There was an issue with directory traversal so 00:49:19.518 --> 00:49:22.338 some of the code for the tools that have the ability 00:49:22.338 --> 00:49:25.298 to recurse through directories maybe that is um trying to 00:49:25.298 --> 00:49:28.078 be an example anything like ls or cp or move or anything like that the 00:49:28.078 --> 00:49:33.038 directory traversal code uh was written quite naively and could could be left 00:49:33.038 --> 00:49:36.018 vulnerable so we kind of waited for that to be fixed before we moved across 00:49:36.018 --> 00:49:39.958 there's been a handful of issues some of them really tiny some of them less 00:49:39.958 --> 00:49:44.018 tiny there was one that bit us where the date command output the date in a slightly 00:49:44.018 --> 00:49:47.978 wrong format and broke a huge number of the package builds in the archive. 00:49:48.218 --> 00:49:52.178 That's a classic programming thing, right? I mean, who wants to work with dates? 00:49:53.178 --> 00:49:56.798 There is a link. I wrote a blog post last week saying kind of a retrospective 00:49:56.798 --> 00:50:00.298 about this. And there's a link which shows the list of all the utilities that we've diverted back. 00:50:00.518 --> 00:50:03.258 And the bug tracker is really active. And the maintainer is in there helping 00:50:03.258 --> 00:50:06.558 us out, along with what appears to be a really nice, vibrant, 00:50:06.698 --> 00:50:08.118 active community around that project. 00:50:08.918 --> 00:50:12.538 You mentioned your relationship with Upstream. And when you were here last time, I think you're, 00:50:13.368 --> 00:50:16.508 pretty hopeful about how this could be good, not only for pushing Ubuntu and 00:50:16.508 --> 00:50:19.848 the Linux desktop forward, but also for these upstream projects. How has that been going? 00:50:20.048 --> 00:50:24.868 Yeah, I mean, from my opinion, it's great. So the way this sort of unfolded 00:50:24.868 --> 00:50:26.928 is I had the idea that I would like to do it. 00:50:27.048 --> 00:50:31.748 I reached out to Sylvester, who's the kind of project leader for utils and said 00:50:31.748 --> 00:50:33.028 that I was interested in doing this. 00:50:33.228 --> 00:50:37.608 And did he think the project was ready? And would he need some funding to help 00:50:37.608 --> 00:50:39.188 out, which we agreed and kind of move forward. 00:50:39.328 --> 00:50:42.108 And similarly for sudo right i reached out to the folks there and 00:50:42.108 --> 00:50:45.288 said i'm interested in doing this what do you think both responded with 00:50:45.288 --> 00:50:48.388 huge enthusiasm we did a bit of back and forth on some 00:50:48.388 --> 00:50:51.068 feature work that we would need doing or some some targeted effort on 00:50:51.068 --> 00:50:54.468 bugs and yeah i think they're certainly 00:50:54.468 --> 00:50:57.228 getting increased interest we don't 00:50:57.228 --> 00:51:01.188 know exactly how many ubuntu users there are because we 00:51:01.188 --> 00:51:04.628 have very limited telemetry anyway and anyone who has kind of behind a corporate 00:51:04.628 --> 00:51:08.648 firewall or opts out of it we don't get it so we don't know exactly how many 00:51:08.648 --> 00:51:12.748 there are but it's there's definitely more than 10 million desktop users alone 00:51:12.748 --> 00:51:15.808 i shudder to think how many server users there are so you've got to imagine 00:51:15.808 --> 00:51:20.648 a pretty enormous increase in their daily users as a result of this and. 00:51:20.648 --> 00:51:23.848 I mean i think it's showing right like one way to view this is maybe okay it's 00:51:23.848 --> 00:51:27.188 not fully ready if we're still finding these issues but another is okay the 00:51:27.188 --> 00:51:30.748 massive scale that ubuntu brings means you actually finally do find a lot of 00:51:30.748 --> 00:51:34.168 these edge cases and can really iron out your software to make it you know robust. 00:51:34.168 --> 00:51:36.868 And hopefully they then have some funding like if 00:51:36.868 --> 00:51:40.168 they can't fix the issue themselves they have some funding to pay 00:51:40.168 --> 00:51:42.768 other developers to help them out right like pay bounties a lot 00:51:42.768 --> 00:51:45.748 of the issues have been performance issues so that i found an issue with word 00:51:45.748 --> 00:51:48.428 count which made it 10 slower than the gnu 00:51:48.428 --> 00:51:52.648 implementation i found an issue someone found that interesting two days later 00:51:52.648 --> 00:51:57.848 it was 11 faster than the gnu one right like so there definitely are going to 00:51:57.848 --> 00:52:01.468 be places where there are rough edges we we won't we certainly haven't exhausted 00:52:01.468 --> 00:52:05.828 every code path right but actually overall i'm surprised at how surface level 00:52:05.828 --> 00:52:08.228 much of the problems we found have been yeah. 00:52:08.228 --> 00:52:09.408 That's my takeaway, 00:52:10.167 --> 00:52:13.287 Before we move completely off of Rust, one last question is, 00:52:13.427 --> 00:52:17.067 it seems like some people that are building on Rust find themselves in this 00:52:17.067 --> 00:52:20.067 contentious spot where it's a hot topic online. 00:52:20.407 --> 00:52:24.927 People love debating sort of like these hot button issues in the Linux community, 00:52:24.927 --> 00:52:26.167 and Rust has become one of them. 00:52:26.507 --> 00:52:28.947 And it seems like, oh, you want to push this forward at the same time, 00:52:29.047 --> 00:52:32.387 not really engage in that. How do you walk that? Is that a challenge? 00:52:33.247 --> 00:52:37.687 You know, is it a brand risk association at all? Those types of things. 00:52:38.407 --> 00:52:41.907 I have tried to steer clear of those sorts of conversations, 00:52:42.447 --> 00:52:43.527 not to not address it here. 00:52:43.647 --> 00:52:46.807 So one of the biggest criticisms that we got for this, or I got for this, 00:52:46.967 --> 00:52:49.267 was the change in license of the core utils package. 00:52:49.547 --> 00:52:50.347 There were lots of people that 00:52:50.347 --> 00:52:54.707 were very concerned that the Rust implementation is not GPL, it's MIT. 00:52:55.127 --> 00:52:59.147 The opinion I've come to is that, as far as I can tell, the values of the utils 00:52:59.147 --> 00:53:01.967 project are very well aligned with that of Ubuntu. 00:53:02.247 --> 00:53:05.047 And so in reality, anybody who installs Ubuntu 00:53:05.047 --> 00:53:08.127 on a machine is entering a sort of trust relationship with canonical right 00:53:08.127 --> 00:53:11.407 like every time you run app we root on your machine that's how apt works you 00:53:11.407 --> 00:53:14.527 kind of have to trust us and so i think 00:53:14.527 --> 00:53:17.687 my view is that it's not 00:53:17.687 --> 00:53:20.967 like we wrote the core utils code in the first place we were shipping canoes core 00:53:20.967 --> 00:53:24.067 utils their values aligned with ours the code was you 00:53:24.067 --> 00:53:26.867 know provided something we needed and now we're shipping a different 00:53:26.867 --> 00:53:30.707 implementation and if something were to change and i felt like or we felt like 00:53:30.707 --> 00:53:34.207 the utils project was not representative of the values of ubuntu or was not 00:53:34.207 --> 00:53:37.247 servicing our community well either we'd ship the canoe one again or we'd ship 00:53:37.247 --> 00:53:40.567 something else do you know i mean like we're a we're a distribution we're curating 00:53:40.567 --> 00:53:44.647 what we think is the best for our users and i think particularly in the case of core utils, 00:53:45.147 --> 00:53:50.027 i don't see it as a huge money maker for anyone in a sense like i think for 00:53:50.027 --> 00:53:53.527 things like elastic search is one of these famous cases where the licensing 00:53:53.527 --> 00:53:58.127 put them in a complicated position commercially and they've changed their licensing 00:53:58.127 --> 00:54:00.367 terms and that's that's gone how that's gone. 00:54:00.927 --> 00:54:04.847 I don't see as much of a risk with core utils personally like canonical is certainly 00:54:04.847 --> 00:54:06.947 not making a move to try and monetize core utils. 00:54:07.087 --> 00:54:09.027 We're just shipping something that we think is going to be a bit faster and 00:54:09.027 --> 00:54:11.727 it's safer in the long term, right? And a bit easier for us to maintain in the 00:54:11.727 --> 00:54:13.507 long term. And that's really all there is to it. 00:54:13.847 --> 00:54:16.987 I've heard you talk about building with a 20-year mindset. 00:54:17.793 --> 00:54:20.493 And that's where this plays in, right? It's maintaining software that enterprises 00:54:20.493 --> 00:54:23.033 run for just a bonkers long amount of time. 00:54:23.353 --> 00:54:26.773 Yeah, I mean, we do 12 years extended support at the moment. 00:54:26.993 --> 00:54:28.373 There's talk of possibly extending that. 00:54:28.893 --> 00:54:33.533 And in reality, I want us to be maintaining code that's as easy for us to build, 00:54:33.753 --> 00:54:37.453 test, find contributors to as we possibly can. Obviously, we want to do that. 00:54:37.553 --> 00:54:41.453 We want to make that task as easy as possible, not only so we can get the fixes 00:54:41.453 --> 00:54:45.213 out sooner, but the easier each piece of software is for us to maintain, 00:54:45.333 --> 00:54:47.593 the more pieces of software we can maintain at the end of the day. 00:54:47.973 --> 00:54:50.273 Okay, I want to ask you one other thing that sounds pretty neat. 00:54:50.613 --> 00:54:55.773 I believe this is the release where initRAMFS tools has been replaced. 00:54:56.113 --> 00:55:00.833 Yes, on the desktop. So in 2510, we're using Draycut. I don't know how to pronounce 00:55:00.833 --> 00:55:01.893 that. I think it's Draycut. 00:55:02.233 --> 00:55:04.493 So we're using that on 2510 for desktop. 00:55:04.913 --> 00:55:09.173 Work is underway to do that for the server, but there were a few use cases where 00:55:09.173 --> 00:55:12.533 we hadn't quite ironed things out. So we haven't rolled it out to server just yet. 00:55:12.753 --> 00:55:16.213 Work is ongoing. My hope is that we would do that for 2604 but again not if 00:55:16.213 --> 00:55:18.893 we can't be very sure the difficulty there is in, 00:55:19.713 --> 00:55:23.513 cases where people need to load kind of weird drivers early on in server boot 00:55:23.513 --> 00:55:27.233 perhaps for like a fancy networking card or whatever it might be we just haven't 00:55:27.233 --> 00:55:31.413 quite got there yet but yes on if you install questing from for your desktop 00:55:31.413 --> 00:55:34.093 you'll be using trade cut not the nitro mfs tools that. 00:55:34.093 --> 00:55:40.153 Seems exciting yeah i'm curious uh just um firstly what was the motivation you know to make the switch. 00:55:40.313 --> 00:55:43.553 And then secondly, I believe this is just an Ubuntu layer switch. 00:55:43.673 --> 00:55:45.993 This isn't something Debian was also doing, right? 00:55:46.673 --> 00:55:50.773 Yeah. So the motivation there is, I think, stability of kind of boot. 00:55:50.933 --> 00:55:54.433 I mean, it's a few less bash scripts in the boot path. It also enables us to 00:55:54.433 --> 00:55:58.873 use the system DNIT scripts, which theoretically gives us a slight performance advantage. 00:55:59.193 --> 00:56:04.413 And the regeneration of the kernel image at kind of apt, if you apt upgrade and you get a new kernel, 00:56:04.553 --> 00:56:08.173 the regeneration of the kernel image should be slightly faster but broadly it 00:56:08.173 --> 00:56:12.793 was seen as a way of getting more bash out of the boot essentially um so just 00:56:12.793 --> 00:56:15.253 a slightly more robust way to boot a system yeah. 00:56:15.253 --> 00:56:16.573 And less bash to maintain hopefully. 00:56:16.573 --> 00:56:20.873 So the next question i have for you and i imagine this probably really won't 00:56:20.873 --> 00:56:25.313 be much of a story a couple of days after release but uh what's going on around 00:56:25.313 --> 00:56:30.313 release day with flat packs and 2510 are there problems there right now are those being resolved. 00:56:30.313 --> 00:56:33.293 Yeah indeed there was a problem there so you're aware that we use snap 00:56:33.293 --> 00:56:36.373 packaging mostly on ubuntu and the security confinement 00:56:36.373 --> 00:56:39.113 for snap packages is provided by app armor and but app 00:56:39.113 --> 00:56:41.753 armor doesn't only work for snaps right so app armor is a 00:56:41.753 --> 00:56:44.793 generic Linux security module in lieu of se linux 00:56:44.793 --> 00:56:47.593 or anything else and part of an effort that's been going on 00:56:47.593 --> 00:56:50.813 in canonical for the last kind of year or so is an 00:56:50.813 --> 00:56:54.213 effort to just ship way more app armor profiles for everything in the archive 00:56:54.213 --> 00:56:59.233 so that that you know increasingly as you install things from the archive they 00:56:59.233 --> 00:57:02.553 can only access the things on your system they're supposed to access right so 00:57:02.553 --> 00:57:07.913 if you ship i don't know uh pdf reader should that thing be able to automatically 00:57:07.913 --> 00:57:09.233 get access to your camera, 00:57:09.875 --> 00:57:12.855 probably not right like so that's a maybe a contrived 00:57:12.855 --> 00:57:15.495 example but the idea is we will ship more and more app armor profiles to 00:57:15.495 --> 00:57:19.095 make sure that every piece of software you get from the ubuntu archive can 00:57:19.095 --> 00:57:21.875 only read file system paths and devices that it should be 00:57:21.875 --> 00:57:24.875 able to read and in this case i believe the root 00:57:24.875 --> 00:57:29.155 cause of the issue was we shipped an app armor profile for i want to say fuse 00:57:29.155 --> 00:57:33.295 and we got something wrong and essentially that stopped flatpak from functioning 00:57:33.295 --> 00:57:36.815 correctly there is a fix underway if it's not already complete it was almost 00:57:36.815 --> 00:57:40.995 finished on friday and so that will get kind of backported backend or SIU'd 00:57:40.995 --> 00:57:42.775 back into crusting as soon as it's ready. 00:57:43.035 --> 00:57:48.295 We have been really impressed with the fact that you stuck to the plan of shipping 00:57:48.295 --> 00:57:52.815 really recent kernels, hot kernels, the fresh stuff. 00:57:52.855 --> 00:57:55.095 We love that. And I mean, 6.17. 00:57:55.415 --> 00:57:57.355 Right in 25.10 as it's released. That's great. 00:57:57.575 --> 00:58:02.835 Yeah. We have a policy with both GNOME and kernel. The policy is basically just ship it, right? 00:58:02.915 --> 00:58:05.615 Like even if it's in RC, there's a motivation behind this. 00:58:05.715 --> 00:58:09.415 So our kernel team is big it's one of the biggest engineering teams at canonical and 00:58:09.415 --> 00:58:12.295 in the desktop it's important right people want things like hdr support they 00:58:12.295 --> 00:58:15.295 want better accessibility we're a little bit beholden to 00:58:15.295 --> 00:58:18.015 other people's release cadence except that our releases are 00:58:18.015 --> 00:58:20.715 literally named after a month we release it and so we we can't really 00:58:20.715 --> 00:58:23.515 delay them and so the deal 00:58:23.515 --> 00:58:26.515 that we have done with our kernel team and the agreement we 00:58:26.515 --> 00:58:29.875 have in the desktop team is basically we will always ship the latest 00:58:29.875 --> 00:58:32.615 gnome or the latest kernel even if it's in release 00:58:32.615 --> 00:58:35.315 candidate when we release and then as soon as the thing is out we will make 00:58:35.315 --> 00:58:38.735 sure that the fully released version is in and the reason is in 00:58:38.735 --> 00:58:44.235 reality we have to maintain the thing for 12 years anyway it may as well be 00:58:44.235 --> 00:58:47.455 the latest most modern thing we possibly can and there's nothing to say just 00:58:47.455 --> 00:58:51.695 because it's an rc there's going to be a bad kernel like in the past we've picked 00:58:51.695 --> 00:58:55.015 kernels that have been stable and they've still been horrifying to maintain 00:58:55.015 --> 00:58:57.595 for whatever reason rather we picked a bad kernel to 00:58:57.895 --> 00:59:01.695 choose and so the the view is basically well we may as well just ship the very 00:59:01.695 --> 00:59:05.255 latest we can It's most likely to have the most fixes, the most hardware support, 00:59:05.375 --> 00:59:09.895 the most features, and we're going to have to maintain it either way. So why not? 00:59:10.855 --> 00:59:16.095 Yeah, it just makes so much sense to me. Okay, I want to shift gears and ask 00:59:16.095 --> 00:59:21.695 you if there's anything you're kind of taking as observations or lessons from 00:59:21.695 --> 00:59:26.635 the relative popularity that a new meta distro or distribution called Oma Archie 00:59:26.635 --> 00:59:27.915 has gotten in the last six months. 00:59:27.915 --> 00:59:35.055 My rough you know napkin math puts them around 30 to 40 000 users so you know let's put it. 00:59:35.055 --> 00:59:35.775 In perspective. 00:59:35.775 --> 00:59:39.755 For the ubuntu desktop but i'm curious if you're noticing anything there trends 00:59:39.755 --> 00:59:42.395 of the types of users or what seems to be appealing to people. 00:59:42.395 --> 00:59:45.555 I think what's interesting about that is 00:59:45.555 --> 00:59:48.435 precisely what you're saying is perhaps because 00:59:48.435 --> 00:59:52.435 of the the people who make it and their background it is capturing a certain 00:59:52.435 --> 00:59:56.115 kind of audience right there certainly i'm sure ruby developers rails developers 00:59:56.115 --> 01:00:00.115 but there's a whole bunch of people who have been using Macs for a certain kind 01:00:00.115 --> 01:00:05.255 of development who are now trying out Linux because people in their circles 01:00:05.255 --> 01:00:06.795 are trying out Linux and finding it, 01:00:07.671 --> 01:00:10.851 And I would honestly love to make Ubuntu a place where those people could have 01:00:10.851 --> 01:00:14.491 a great life. I think the mythical new user story is important. 01:00:14.691 --> 01:00:17.991 I care about new users. I care about inexperienced people using computers. 01:00:18.171 --> 01:00:21.991 But I actually think for Ubuntu, I do believe that for the desktop, 01:00:22.191 --> 01:00:24.411 a huge part of our market has to be developers, right? 01:00:24.531 --> 01:00:27.911 It has to be people who are either developing professionally. 01:00:27.911 --> 01:00:32.791 So we see huge growth in our WSL numbers, like monumental growth in WSL, 01:00:32.891 --> 01:00:36.371 the number of people who are using Ubuntu on Windows to do their development 01:00:36.371 --> 01:00:39.751 work. or maybe it's just people messing around with the SP home or whatever 01:00:39.751 --> 01:00:41.051 it is, right, tinkering at home. 01:00:41.231 --> 01:00:45.611 And so we actually have a whole toolchains team, which has grown a lot in the 01:00:45.611 --> 01:00:49.331 last year, focused on trying to make the development experience on Ubuntu as 01:00:49.331 --> 01:00:52.051 good as we possibly can, whether you're a Rust developer, a Java developer. 01:00:52.551 --> 01:00:58.131 And I think Omachi and others are kind of proving the point that even if you've 01:00:58.131 --> 01:01:01.691 been a Mac user for 10 years, at this point, there's probably enough maturity 01:01:01.691 --> 01:01:04.731 on Linux for those people to have a great experience developing on Linux too. 01:01:04.731 --> 01:01:09.291 Yeah, it seems to me one of the things that's appealing, although it's not something 01:01:09.291 --> 01:01:14.271 that hasn't been tried before, is an opinionated, ready-to-go setup that makes 01:01:14.271 --> 01:01:15.971 starting for developers easy. 01:01:16.091 --> 01:01:18.531 That's one of the things I see on social media a lot is, oh, 01:01:18.551 --> 01:01:19.611 I was able to just get going. 01:01:19.971 --> 01:01:23.351 And we've seen Ubuntu take cracks at this. We've seen a lot of distributions 01:01:23.351 --> 01:01:26.891 take one or two commands to set up an entire development environment. 01:01:27.311 --> 01:01:31.371 So that's not necessarily a new idea, but yet it's resonating this time. 01:01:31.371 --> 01:01:36.151 Do you think it's a desktop environment aspect as well, or do you think it's 01:01:36.151 --> 01:01:41.011 just a matter of Windows 10 is going away, Windows 11 isn't satisfying people, 01:01:41.111 --> 01:01:44.851 or the requirements are too high, and the Mac desktop seems to be ignoring developers? 01:01:44.991 --> 01:01:48.631 Do you think it's just the proprietary platforms are blowing it right now, 01:01:48.651 --> 01:01:53.191 or is there something that Omar Archie has nailed in the presentation that maybe 01:01:53.191 --> 01:01:56.011 the other distributions have missed, even though they've taken a stab at an 01:01:56.011 --> 01:01:57.431 opinionated, out-of-the-box setup? 01:01:57.431 --> 01:02:01.951 I think it's both. My experience with macOS is it maybe hasn't got the attention 01:02:01.951 --> 01:02:03.271 it used to get from Apple. 01:02:03.591 --> 01:02:08.231 I was a macOS user for years, and I remember very proudly telling people that 01:02:08.231 --> 01:02:11.751 it was the best computer I'd ever had, and I would be very surprised if someone 01:02:11.751 --> 01:02:12.431 convinced me otherwise. 01:02:12.591 --> 01:02:17.431 And my feeling of that over time, this was many years ago now, 01:02:17.511 --> 01:02:19.331 but was that it started to go a bit stale. 01:02:19.451 --> 01:02:22.191 And I think we see that a lot with the focus on iOS and iPadOS. 01:02:22.291 --> 01:02:25.131 I don't think there's the same level of investment there, personally. 01:02:25.691 --> 01:02:30.711 I also think what's interesting about Omachi to me is that they chose something 01:02:30.711 --> 01:02:35.671 like Hyperland, they chose Arch, and I wonder how many developers are experienced 01:02:35.671 --> 01:02:39.211 technical people who have always been curious about Arch but have heard how hard it is to install. 01:02:39.351 --> 01:02:42.211 They're curious about Hyperland because they see these amazing screenshots on the internet. 01:02:42.471 --> 01:02:45.511 And this is just a really, really nice way to get going, right? 01:02:45.551 --> 01:02:48.251 Even just in a VM, like you install it, oh wow, that was really easy, 01:02:48.311 --> 01:02:49.391 I can now play with it right away. 01:02:49.551 --> 01:02:51.831 So it's just made a whole collection of, 01:02:52.638 --> 01:02:56.638 quite niche ultimately technologies really accessible and they are interesting 01:02:56.638 --> 01:03:00.338 right they're exciting things to play with so i think it's a combination of factors. 01:03:00.338 --> 01:03:03.178 I wonder if it's not the trend but an 01:03:03.178 --> 01:03:05.898 indication of a trend that we're going to see like 01:03:05.898 --> 01:03:09.838 this could be the leading edge ultimately i 01:03:09.838 --> 01:03:13.078 think if you're going to maintain an arch box it's probably 01:03:13.078 --> 01:03:15.858 good that you understand how that arch box is 01:03:15.858 --> 01:03:18.578 set up long term for sure i wonder if this 01:03:18.578 --> 01:03:21.718 isn't a leading edge and if you aren't 01:03:21.718 --> 01:03:25.158 getting that puck skating if you'll excuse this really horrible metaphor if 01:03:25.158 --> 01:03:28.678 you aren't beginning to get that puck skating for the ubuntu desktop where this 01:03:28.678 --> 01:03:33.198 trend might be going we may be just seeing the very beginning of this and is 01:03:33.198 --> 01:03:36.218 this kind of idea been in the back of your head as you've been pushing to make 01:03:36.218 --> 01:03:39.778 the interim releases more interesting and engage more with the community is 01:03:39.778 --> 01:03:41.298 that sort of the strategy here yeah. 01:03:41.298 --> 01:03:46.918 What i would like is that for people on ubuntu or people who are on Linux for 01:03:46.918 --> 01:03:50.378 work, and it happens to be Ubuntu, for example, that when they hear about something 01:03:50.378 --> 01:03:56.038 new or exciting or useful, it is available to them in an up-to-date and well-maintained form. 01:03:56.398 --> 01:04:00.278 Now, some of those are going to be snaps, sorry. You know, like the people who, 01:04:00.498 --> 01:04:02.698 there's lots of people have opinions about those and that's fine. 01:04:02.978 --> 01:04:09.218 But snaps give us this superpower, basically, to ship software to all manner 01:04:09.218 --> 01:04:12.838 of different Ubuntu releases over a really long period of time and keep backporting 01:04:12.838 --> 01:04:14.138 features to those releases, right? 01:04:14.138 --> 01:04:18.458 So we have some work upcoming on kind of like portable developer environments 01:04:18.458 --> 01:04:19.958 that will come out next year. 01:04:20.738 --> 01:04:24.698 But also our tool chain teams are working on things like they have these things 01:04:24.698 --> 01:04:26.638 called DevPacks. There's a DevPack for Spring. 01:04:26.798 --> 01:04:30.538 So if you're a Spring boot developer, you can get like the latest Java development 01:04:30.538 --> 01:04:34.918 kits and the Graal VM compiler and all these like shiny things that Java developers 01:04:34.918 --> 01:04:36.358 would want by installing a single snap. 01:04:36.618 --> 01:04:39.538 And the environment is completely set up for you to just get on with your work and work in Spring. 01:04:39.798 --> 01:04:42.038 And we're doing the same for Go. We're doing the same for Rust, 01:04:42.138 --> 01:04:45.478 for .NET. And so I would like for, 01:04:46.318 --> 01:04:49.978 not just the tool chain to be up to date in the archive, which is kind of necessary 01:04:49.978 --> 01:04:51.938 for us to build the software we ship, 01:04:52.198 --> 01:04:56.298 but also for developers to be able to get all of the LSPs and static analyzers 01:04:56.298 --> 01:04:59.338 and formaters that they hear about really, really easily on their Ubuntu machine 01:04:59.338 --> 01:05:03.578 without having to like curl to bash, add some GPG keys to your machine. 01:05:04.618 --> 01:05:07.198 Like that's an odd trust relationship at the end of the day. 01:05:07.378 --> 01:05:12.358 You see a piece of software, add a PPA to your machine, and then you run the 01:05:12.358 --> 01:05:14.978 maintainer scripts and that thing as root every time you update the package. 01:05:15.538 --> 01:05:17.018 Until it's no longer available. 01:05:17.018 --> 01:05:20.278 Until it's no longer available and you know 01:05:20.278 --> 01:05:23.458 sure you're giving root to canonical when you run apt but 01:05:23.458 --> 01:05:26.078 like i say if you you kind of have to trust canonical if you go to 01:05:26.078 --> 01:05:28.818 run ubuntu right in a sense um and so it would be in my 01:05:28.818 --> 01:05:32.198 view if you're going to have to give that ultimate trust to somebody you want 01:05:32.198 --> 01:05:35.438 to limit the number of people you give it to right and so we can publish you 01:05:35.438 --> 01:05:38.898 know security maintained kind of verified snaps on the store and we can push 01:05:38.898 --> 01:05:42.118 things into the archive but there are some kinds of software that it's much 01:05:42.118 --> 01:05:45.498 simpler for us to ship to a much higher number of users with something like 01:05:45.498 --> 01:05:47.758 Snaps, for example, or as a container image, perhaps. 01:05:48.398 --> 01:05:51.278 Yeah, it seems like, I mean, Snaps are kind of, at least for the dev stuff you 01:05:51.278 --> 01:05:54.178 were talking about, Snaps are allowing you to bring containerized development 01:05:54.178 --> 01:05:57.798 and deployment workflows, but in a, I guess, you know, a different flavor than 01:05:57.798 --> 01:05:59.398 you see in tools like Docker and Podman. 01:05:59.898 --> 01:06:00.078 Right. 01:06:00.698 --> 01:06:04.238 John, I could ask you thousands of more questions. We should probably, 01:06:04.298 --> 01:06:06.898 we should check in again in a few months. 01:06:07.158 --> 01:06:07.778 Yeah, for sure. 01:06:07.878 --> 01:06:11.358 Is there anything we didn't touch on that you want to touch on before we wrap up? 01:06:11.358 --> 01:06:16.658 There is a really nice step towards a better TPM full disk encryption setup. 01:06:16.858 --> 01:06:19.178 So this is essentially where you want to have an encrypted disk, 01:06:19.358 --> 01:06:21.238 but you don't want to enter your password twice when you boot up. 01:06:21.518 --> 01:06:25.098 So it basically allows you to store that disk encryption key in the TPM. 01:06:25.258 --> 01:06:27.958 And assuming that the kernel hasn't been tampered with and the command hasn't 01:06:27.958 --> 01:06:30.838 been changed and the machine hasn't been messed with, it should unlock the disk automatically. 01:06:31.378 --> 01:06:34.498 We've had that as an option, an experimental option in our installer for some 01:06:34.498 --> 01:06:38.778 time, and I'm pushing really hard for us to have that not as experimental for 2604. 01:06:39.098 --> 01:06:41.978 It's in better shape than it's ever been. There's been a huge amount of work 01:06:41.978 --> 01:06:45.058 on it, which you can read a bit about on our discourse or in my blog. 01:06:45.318 --> 01:06:48.858 But I'd really encourage people to give that a go, particularly on machines 01:06:48.858 --> 01:06:50.378 with slightly simpler partitioning setups. 01:06:50.538 --> 01:06:53.698 At the moment, it's kind of single root partition kind of thing. 01:06:53.838 --> 01:06:56.718 But I'm really proud of the way the team have come together. 01:06:56.838 --> 01:07:01.578 That is an effort across Snapd and kernel and desktop. It's a huge effort to 01:07:01.578 --> 01:07:04.858 bring that across the line, and the more feedback we can get on it, the better. 01:07:05.058 --> 01:07:09.838 So I think that's a really interesting piece of work that is a genuine win, right? 01:07:09.958 --> 01:07:13.638 You get better security and better usability, like we don't often get to have, 01:07:14.393 --> 01:07:15.813 both of those things at the same time. 01:07:16.313 --> 01:07:18.653 Yeah, I'm curious, is that kind of what was driving it as an effort for just 01:07:18.653 --> 01:07:21.693 the general experience? Or is this something that you've also seen maybe asks 01:07:21.693 --> 01:07:24.593 from, you know, people doing enterprise desktop deployments, that kind of thing? 01:07:25.093 --> 01:07:29.053 Yeah, I mean, firstly, as a user of it myself, I would like this. 01:07:29.253 --> 01:07:32.973 And secondly, for sure, if you look at things like the macOS FileVault or Windows 01:07:32.973 --> 01:07:35.993 BitLocker, like these are features that people have come to expect in operating 01:07:35.993 --> 01:07:38.613 systems in an enterprise environment, and we also play in that space. 01:07:39.093 --> 01:07:41.353 So I think it's important for us to provide that. 01:07:41.793 --> 01:07:45.853 Okay, one last pet question. just because I want to be able to pick your brain on this. 01:07:46.373 --> 01:07:49.433 What are your thoughts, maybe after the LTS, 01:07:49.613 --> 01:07:52.073 I don't know, but down the road, so no time commitments, but what are your thoughts 01:07:52.073 --> 01:07:59.713 on integration of a BcacheFS DKMS module or giving BcacheFS access to users 01:07:59.713 --> 01:08:03.233 during the install of one of the interim releases sometime in the future? 01:08:03.373 --> 01:08:05.333 Is that on your radar at all, John? 01:08:05.573 --> 01:08:09.453 I haven't got it planned, but I'm not against it. I've been following the whole 01:08:09.453 --> 01:08:11.873 BcacheFS story quite closely. 01:08:11.873 --> 01:08:14.733 We obviously did some work on zfs a 01:08:14.733 --> 01:08:17.853 few years ago which still exists so you can still install zfs on 01:08:17.853 --> 01:08:21.353 root and things like zsys which is our tooling around it still exists we are 01:08:21.353 --> 01:08:25.893 actually working um so subiquity which is the the kind of installer that sits 01:08:25.893 --> 01:08:29.213 beneath the graphical installer for desktop and in fact the actual installer 01:08:29.213 --> 01:08:33.013 you interact with on a server can support all kinds of different partitioning 01:08:33.013 --> 01:08:35.873 schemes it's quite limited at the moment but we're doing some work this cycle, 01:08:36.333 --> 01:08:37.853 specifically to enable a couple 01:08:37.853 --> 01:08:40.573 of the ubuntu flavors to have a slightly different partitioning layout. 01:08:40.793 --> 01:08:43.953 So that would open the door for more complex partitioning schemes, 01:08:44.333 --> 01:08:48.033 sort of guided partitioning schemes rather than manual partitioning where people wanted that. 01:08:48.433 --> 01:08:53.993 As for BcacheFS itself, I am not against it. It's not planned work right now. 01:08:54.133 --> 01:08:57.733 I don't see it as super high priority at the moment, but equally, 01:08:58.073 --> 01:09:00.393 like we ship our own kernel, right? 01:09:00.513 --> 01:09:04.613 So we have always chosen what goes into that kernel and what doesn't, 01:09:04.673 --> 01:09:07.373 which drivers we ship, which fast systems we ship, and this would just be another 01:09:07.373 --> 01:09:12.213 variable there right i don't think it's a particularly controversial decision for us at least. 01:09:12.213 --> 01:09:13.493 Right famously. 01:09:13.493 --> 01:09:16.213 For example we ship zfs where lots of distros have shied away from that. 01:09:16.213 --> 01:09:19.253 And seemingly has worked out great so far and many users 01:09:19.253 --> 01:09:22.233 appreciate the fact that you do right so john thank 01:09:22.233 --> 01:09:24.773 you so much for spending a little time with us i'd love to do it again maybe 01:09:24.773 --> 01:09:28.333 in april if you're available and uh pick your brain again then absolutely well 01:09:28.333 --> 01:09:32.973 thank you so much and congrats on the release we'll link to uh your post about 01:09:32.973 --> 01:09:36.753 it and as well as some of the community discussions and of course the downloads 01:09:36.753 --> 01:09:39.053 and any other links you want to send our way, we'll throw in the show notes 01:09:39.053 --> 01:09:40.353 and come back real soon, sir. 01:09:48.996 --> 01:09:52.256 Linuxunplugged.com slash membership. Go there to support the show and you get 01:09:52.256 --> 01:09:56.296 access to the bootleg feed, which is clocking in at one hour and 58 minutes 01:09:56.296 --> 01:10:00.356 right now as we record lots of extra content, discussion, news that didn't fit 01:10:00.356 --> 01:10:01.336 into the topic of the week. 01:10:01.716 --> 01:10:04.836 All that stuff is there and it's a great way to support the show directly. 01:10:04.976 --> 01:10:06.776 You just put your support on autopilot. 01:10:06.976 --> 01:10:10.136 And one of the things that our members made possible, just our community in 01:10:10.136 --> 01:10:12.376 general has been really supportive over this last year. 01:10:12.696 --> 01:10:17.536 We didn't talk about it on this trip, but once again, the headsets that you 01:10:17.536 --> 01:10:20.336 helped us fundraise for LinuxFest Northwest, I think it was, 01:10:20.436 --> 01:10:22.596 or it was for scale maybe, because we use them at LinuxFest Northwest. 01:10:22.636 --> 01:10:25.496 We use them at scale. We've used them at Texas LinuxFest. 01:10:26.176 --> 01:10:29.936 Unbelievably how great they are. I mean, right, right. It totally has been fantastic. 01:10:30.216 --> 01:10:33.496 Yeah, absolutely. I was able to use one when I went to NixVegas. 01:10:33.616 --> 01:10:33.816 Right. 01:10:34.016 --> 01:10:36.656 I mean, they're just so much more portable than our previous setup. 01:10:37.156 --> 01:10:38.696 Everything we need fits in one backpack. 01:10:38.876 --> 01:10:41.556 I think we use them on the van rescue too, Chris. Didn't we use them in the van? 01:10:41.676 --> 01:10:47.516 Oh, we did. We did. This is an example of how our funds can be allocated to 01:10:47.516 --> 01:10:50.256 make the show better, make the trips possible and the gear we use. 01:10:50.716 --> 01:10:55.676 And we try to do it very wisely. We've been, you know, the show turned 12 and 01:10:55.676 --> 01:10:59.896 we want to be here for another 12 years. So we try to be very careful about how we do this. 01:11:00.036 --> 01:11:05.016 And your direct support, either via a boost or from a membership at linuxonplug.com 01:11:05.016 --> 01:11:08.276 slash membership makes all the difference. And thank you for your support. 01:11:11.316 --> 01:11:14.296 Well, while we were on the road, the boost machine was still pumping. 01:11:14.296 --> 01:11:20.156 And a lot of you figured we probably needed to get home with some boosts, so we've got a baller. 01:11:29.096 --> 01:11:35.596 Black Host is our baller this week with 399,998 sets. 01:11:41.956 --> 01:11:45.836 All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate that, Black Host. 01:11:45.936 --> 01:11:50.396 They write, sending you some digital gas and wishing you a safe trip back home. 01:11:50.556 --> 01:11:54.596 Thank you for the amazing coverage on Texas Linux Fest. P.S. Drew's note's failing. 01:11:55.296 --> 01:11:59.736 Hopefully this one gets accepted. Ah, we'll look into that. We'll definitely look into that. 01:11:59.896 --> 01:12:03.196 And thank you for the digital gas. It worked just as expected. 01:12:03.396 --> 01:12:07.296 Thank you. We made it. We are back. Thank you, Black Host. I really appreciate that. 01:12:08.556 --> 01:12:11.176 Outdoor Geek comes in with 100,000 cents. 01:12:15.839 --> 01:12:17.619 Not bad. Thank you, Outdoor Geek. 01:12:18.339 --> 01:12:22.579 Late Texas Linux fast boost. I wasn't able to get Breeze to send a fountain, 01:12:22.579 --> 01:12:24.659 so I ended up using River instead. 01:12:24.939 --> 01:12:26.519 I was messing with Breeze, and eventually 01:12:26.519 --> 01:12:29.839 it told me I needed to enter an on-chain address to get my sats. 01:12:30.059 --> 01:12:33.859 I think my Breeze wallet had gone dormant because I didn't open the app for months. 01:12:34.139 --> 01:12:37.059 And yeah, I think that's pretty much the behavior they do. So you don't lose 01:12:37.059 --> 01:12:40.679 your sats, but you do kind of have to go through a recovery process after your channels get closed. 01:12:40.799 --> 01:12:44.259 I see. They close the channels. Yeah. River is great. I really like River. 01:12:44.259 --> 01:12:47.319 I think we have a jupiterbroadcasting.com slash river affiliate URL. 01:12:47.459 --> 01:12:49.959 By the way, I think it's one of the best ways to stack sats. 01:12:50.099 --> 01:12:52.319 In the U.S., it's all they do, and they have a great infrastructure. 01:12:52.559 --> 01:12:55.159 And that is a great boost. Thank you, Outdoor Geek. Thanks for going through 01:12:55.159 --> 01:12:57.919 and trying it and then sending in your report. Appreciate that. 01:12:58.259 --> 01:13:03.779 Well, we've got two boosts here from Daja for a total of 86,247 sats. 01:13:04.339 --> 01:13:04.699 Hey. 01:13:09.659 --> 01:13:13.259 Latex sats to help with the return gas. this 01:13:13.259 --> 01:13:17.379 is also a zip code boost if you guys see this in time you're more than welcome 01:13:17.379 --> 01:13:22.059 to take a pit stop at our office just off of the interstate i'll be there pretty 01:13:22.059 --> 01:13:29.039 much all day and we've got free soda so he sent in a geohash 9x23j and a little 01:13:29.039 --> 01:13:31.239 matrix connection so thank you oh my. 01:13:31.239 --> 01:13:39.279 Gosh thankfully i have my um yeah my well-tested map from our trip which we 01:13:39.279 --> 01:13:44.159 brought along of course and this would be a postal code in davis county utah oh. 01:13:44.159 --> 01:13:47.159 Okay well brent never know. 01:13:47.159 --> 01:13:50.839 You'll be on your way back next trip we're keeping our boost dashboard open that. 01:13:50.839 --> 01:13:56.319 Is the way to go we should have thought of that i will note that that is an error we will correct. 01:13:56.319 --> 01:13:57.479 So thank you daja yeah. 01:13:57.479 --> 01:13:58.999 And thank you for the boost daja. 01:13:58.999 --> 01:14:02.879 Now the second boost here is actually a row of ducks with a little message, 01:14:05.180 --> 01:14:08.640 Anyway, I forgot to mention that I was curious if you guys have ever messed 01:14:08.640 --> 01:14:12.020 around with getting MeshTastic hooked into Home Assistant. 01:14:12.300 --> 01:14:16.300 I've been toying around with getting sensor data passed over MQTT for a mesh 01:14:16.300 --> 01:14:21.840 of buildings with no internet to one that does, that will bridge to the outside world. 01:14:22.040 --> 01:14:26.740 Super random and probably won't work as nice as I'm hoping, but initial tests seem promising. 01:14:27.480 --> 01:14:31.940 All right. Keep us posted, I suppose. I've always been curious. 01:14:32.620 --> 01:14:37.820 I've not looked at connecting MeshTastic to HA, but very, very interested in doing so. 01:14:38.140 --> 01:14:41.220 I'd say top tier interested, if that's such a thing. You know what I mean? 01:14:42.560 --> 01:14:45.480 Wes and I were literally talking about it on the drive. We had a lot of time 01:14:45.480 --> 01:14:49.240 to talk about things, but that was one of the things we talked about on the drive. 01:14:49.940 --> 01:14:53.440 GooseGuy comes in with 44,444 sats. Woo! 01:14:55.040 --> 01:14:59.780 That's a big old duck. Here's a late boost for your travels to and from Texas LinuxFest. 01:14:59.880 --> 01:15:03.180 The Texas tracker is awesome. I'm glad you got to check on my favorite barbecue 01:15:03.180 --> 01:15:04.980 spot in Austin. Enjoy the sads. 01:15:05.200 --> 01:15:06.020 Hey, we're glad too. 01:15:06.200 --> 01:15:09.880 We are very glad we did. And thank you. We appreciate it. 01:15:09.980 --> 01:15:13.680 You know, the trip, as far as all the accounting, I'm still, 01:15:13.880 --> 01:15:14.940 of course, going through everything. 01:15:15.140 --> 01:15:17.620 And we'll have to figure all that out because also PayPal is still holding some 01:15:17.620 --> 01:15:20.000 of the funds. So very much appreciate that, Goose Guy. 01:15:20.420 --> 01:15:24.020 Also note that the Texas Tracker will still be up because I'm not home yet. 01:15:24.020 --> 01:15:29.200 So if you want to follow the crazy journey that a Brent takes on his way home, please do. 01:15:29.320 --> 01:15:32.600 Probably be for the next, I don't know, At least a week. I have no idea, actually. 01:15:33.200 --> 01:15:35.080 Where even is home for you at this point? 01:15:35.360 --> 01:15:36.100 Yeah, who knows. 01:15:36.340 --> 01:15:43.320 Not the one who's in with 20,000 sats. Sorry, I forgot to send this to help with costs for Texas. 01:15:43.500 --> 01:15:45.960 Hey, no need to apologize. We just appreciate it. 01:15:46.580 --> 01:15:50.460 Still struggling to work out how to properly set up Nix OS? Need to read more? 01:15:50.860 --> 01:15:54.100 Any tips would help. Well, one thing, I mean, maybe depend on, 01:15:54.240 --> 01:15:55.840 you know, are you struggling with the initial install? 01:15:55.960 --> 01:15:57.920 Are you struggling just to, like, really get a config you like? 01:15:57.960 --> 01:16:00.240 It might depend a bit on exactly where you are in the journey. 01:16:00.240 --> 01:16:04.680 But if you would like some inspiration, maybe check out episode 634. 01:16:05.300 --> 01:16:09.540 There should be a bunch of links to various user and audience member configs. 01:16:09.940 --> 01:16:11.420 There's a lot to be inspired by there. 01:16:11.560 --> 01:16:15.200 And if you dig around on the downloads page for NixOS, there is a graphical 01:16:15.200 --> 01:16:18.280 installer you can grab and they will set you up with a base config. 01:16:18.520 --> 01:16:19.640 Always a good place to start from. 01:16:19.780 --> 01:16:21.000 Yeah, maybe even in a VM. 01:16:21.280 --> 01:16:23.620 Yeah, you're not going to go wrong there, I don't think. Good question. 01:16:23.820 --> 01:16:26.140 And do keep us posted. And if you have any specific questions, 01:16:26.460 --> 01:16:28.960 please do feel free. Send those in to us. 01:16:28.960 --> 01:16:34.300 Well, Kiwi Bitcoin Guide boosted in four, five, six, seven sats. 01:16:36.987 --> 01:16:39.507 Well, I've been listening and following live from New Zealand. 01:16:39.727 --> 01:16:40.887 May the force be with you. 01:16:41.847 --> 01:16:46.947 Ah, thank you, Kiwi. Thanks for the New Zealand check-in. That is so cool. Love that. 01:16:47.587 --> 01:16:50.747 Jordan Bravo is in with a row of ducks, 2,222 sats. 01:16:51.907 --> 01:16:55.727 Plus one to do another episode with the RateMyConfig. All right, that's two votes. 01:16:55.987 --> 01:16:57.127 Mm, votes are climbing. 01:16:57.407 --> 01:17:01.007 I don't know if that was a super well-received episode, the config confessions. 01:17:01.487 --> 01:17:03.727 Would like more feedback on 01:17:03.727 --> 01:17:05.987 that because we enjoyed it and we have a couple of configs in the kitty. 01:17:06.987 --> 01:17:09.067 It's a fun thing to do. So let us know. And thank you, Jordan. 01:17:09.227 --> 01:17:11.547 We will register your plus one on this matter. 01:17:12.747 --> 01:17:19.967 Byte Bitten comes in with 2,000 sets. I like Android to be called Google's Android 01:17:19.967 --> 01:17:23.807 and the AOSP to be Google's Android source project. 01:17:23.847 --> 01:17:24.087 Oh! 01:17:24.327 --> 01:17:29.667 Gasp. As it doesn't feel open when everything needs to be registered and it makes devs gasp for air. 01:17:30.067 --> 01:17:30.467 Oof. 01:17:30.747 --> 01:17:34.747 That's, that's, uh... That's good. 01:17:37.907 --> 01:17:40.907 Fire i'm gonna i'm gonna try to remember that that's a good one bite thank you. 01:17:41.687 --> 01:17:44.567 Ed broughton boosted in 5 000 sets, 01:17:47.087 --> 01:17:50.587 i really enjoyed the road trip stories and i'm looking forward to next week's 01:17:50.587 --> 01:17:54.827 episode that's this one where i hope to hear about the return trip thanks for 01:17:54.827 --> 01:18:01.087 the coverage of the texas linux fest and for the effort the team puts into this show well. 01:18:01.087 --> 01:18:03.507 Thank you ed thank you for the boost really appreciate that. 01:18:04.007 --> 01:18:06.607 Hybrid Sarcasms back with 10,000 sats. 01:18:13.067 --> 01:18:18.387 Okay, so Hybrid's got an app pick for us. It's NCSpot. He's got a Flathub linked 01:18:18.387 --> 01:18:19.607 here. It's a Spotify Tui. 01:18:19.767 --> 01:18:24.127 It has a nice N-Curses interface, and as one who likes to avoid electron apps, 01:18:24.287 --> 01:18:25.627 if I can find that, it helps. 01:18:25.947 --> 01:18:33.127 You know a Tui via Flathub, or I mean, I'm sorry, Flatpak, that's different, and kind Kind of neat. 01:18:33.427 --> 01:18:35.847 Thank you, Mr. Sarcasm. This is great. 01:18:36.027 --> 01:18:41.227 That's a bonus pick right there. Thank you, Hybrid. Appreciate that. It's NC Spot. 01:18:41.767 --> 01:18:46.267 I'm sure you can find it in all kinds of places. It's a cross-platform and cursive Spotify client. 01:18:47.327 --> 01:18:48.887 I mean, if you're going to use Spotify. 01:18:49.127 --> 01:18:50.067 That's the way to do it. 01:18:50.067 --> 01:18:52.727 That's probably the way to do it. Although friends don't necessarily let friends 01:18:52.727 --> 01:18:56.587 use Spotify. There is that. But if you're going to, that's probably the way to do it. 01:18:57.387 --> 01:19:01.127 Thank you, Hybrid. And please, send more boost picks. Appreciate that. 01:19:01.127 --> 01:19:05.427 Anonymous boosts in with 5,555 sands. 01:19:07.183 --> 01:19:10.423 First time Booster here, finally took the dive and set up Albie Hub. 01:19:10.523 --> 01:19:11.643 Hey, really? 01:19:12.223 --> 01:19:12.603 Nice. 01:19:12.723 --> 01:19:16.363 Also, it was fantastic meeting y'all at Texas Linux Fest. 01:19:16.543 --> 01:19:18.243 Right on. Nicely done. 01:19:18.743 --> 01:19:23.383 I'd also like to give a special shout out to a standout member of the community, TechDev. 01:19:23.763 --> 01:19:26.963 While at the conference, I noticed how deliberately he reached out to everyone, 01:19:27.143 --> 01:19:29.783 especially those who seemed alone or were looking for a group to join. 01:19:30.423 --> 01:19:33.883 TechDev, your inclusive spirit is truly rare and deeply appreciated. 01:19:34.183 --> 01:19:35.163 I will plus one that one. 01:19:35.163 --> 01:19:36.623 I will plus two that one. 01:19:37.283 --> 01:19:41.043 Yeah. TechDev, I think, made it a little extra special, and I was really glad 01:19:41.043 --> 01:19:42.363 that he could make it to the event. 01:19:43.023 --> 01:19:46.543 And I noticed the same. I noticed the same. So I'm glad he got a shout out here 01:19:46.543 --> 01:19:49.403 in this boost. And congratulations on getting your own AlbiHub going. 01:19:49.643 --> 01:19:51.423 Yeah, thank you for taking the deep dev to do it. 01:19:51.463 --> 01:19:53.583 How fun is it, right? I mean, it's a little challenging, right? 01:19:53.683 --> 01:19:54.743 But it's such an unlock, too. 01:19:55.343 --> 01:20:00.803 Well, Autobrain boosted in 3,500 sets. Thanks for the coverage of the Linux 01:20:00.803 --> 01:20:03.423 Fest. It was fun watching you guys crisscross the content. 01:20:04.583 --> 01:20:06.043 Well, thanks for following along. 01:20:06.043 --> 01:20:10.623 Yeah, we do appreciate that. It was fun for us. We used the crap out of that 01:20:10.623 --> 01:20:12.263 tracker. Let me tell you, we really did. 01:20:13.103 --> 01:20:17.263 Begus Mascus comes in, probably, probably not right, with a Spaceballs boost. 01:20:17.443 --> 01:20:18.823 One, two, three, four, five sats. 01:20:23.483 --> 01:20:25.943 Hey, it's Brian from Boise. We were just talking about Brian. 01:20:26.463 --> 01:20:27.843 This is my first real boost. 01:20:27.983 --> 01:20:30.843 I was the guy who rolled up at the gas station, slid to your bit chat, 01:20:30.983 --> 01:20:33.403 and then crept up on your car in the dark while it was pouring rain. 01:20:33.703 --> 01:20:36.083 Thanks for taking a few minutes to chat. I was a bit nervous, 01:20:36.243 --> 01:20:37.623 probably because of the whole stalker vibe thing. 01:20:37.863 --> 01:20:40.103 But it's not every day you get to meet one of your heroes. Oh, 01:20:40.143 --> 01:20:42.563 Wes. Oh, Wes is pretty great, I will say. 01:20:42.623 --> 01:20:43.303 No, it's all Brent. 01:20:43.403 --> 01:20:46.083 Keep up the amazing content. I'll be boosting it regularly. Awesome! 01:20:46.243 --> 01:20:48.983 And hopefully my own new Albie build soon. Wow. 01:20:49.623 --> 01:20:52.663 Thank you for... I was hoping we would hear from you, Brian. 01:20:53.003 --> 01:20:55.583 Yes, it was great to get to meet you. Thank you for putting in the effort, 01:20:55.643 --> 01:20:56.703 especially in the pouring rain. 01:20:56.903 --> 01:20:59.783 It was a hell of a storm. We did not expect anyone to come out. 01:21:00.283 --> 01:21:03.843 And we were stopped there at that gas station for a minute. So we must have 01:21:03.843 --> 01:21:07.343 wondered what was going on, because we were like looking at the storm routing, trying to figure out. 01:21:07.423 --> 01:21:09.703 Debating how far could we make it in this? Where do we sleep? 01:21:09.803 --> 01:21:13.543 The traction was low. I mean, there was just so much standing water. 01:21:13.583 --> 01:21:15.003 So we didn't want to drive in that all night. 01:21:15.503 --> 01:21:19.103 But we were totally happy that Brian stopped by and we had like, 01:21:19.163 --> 01:21:21.903 you know, the quick, hey, how you doing moment and thanks for saying hi kind of thing. 01:21:22.543 --> 01:21:25.263 So we do hope to hear from you more big and keep on boosting in. 01:21:26.283 --> 01:21:30.643 Well, Brad at Team Toronto, boosts in with 7,500 sats. 01:21:32.639 --> 01:21:35.659 Plus one for more Nix confessions. Okay, that's three. 01:21:35.799 --> 01:21:36.219 All right. 01:21:36.619 --> 01:21:41.259 We have a smart audience. Yeah, amen to that. And it's great to hear and see 01:21:41.259 --> 01:21:42.999 via Git what everyone is doing. 01:21:43.219 --> 01:21:47.419 Would love to see more around Nix as well. Or even other topics like home assistant, 01:21:47.559 --> 01:21:48.679 utilities, scripts, etc. 01:21:49.259 --> 01:21:51.239 Leverage the community for more content. 01:21:51.439 --> 01:21:56.039 Love it. I would definitely love to see some more community contributions around 01:21:56.039 --> 01:21:56.999 their home assistant setups. 01:21:57.379 --> 01:21:59.119 I'm sure there's some stellar stuff. 01:21:59.299 --> 01:22:02.459 I am in a bad way with my home assistant. Right before I left for the trip, 01:22:02.699 --> 01:22:05.179 my Zigbee radio just seems to have gone offline. 01:22:05.299 --> 01:22:05.719 Oh, no. 01:22:06.059 --> 01:22:09.259 And, yeah. And so Home Assistant can't talk to my Zigbee radio. 01:22:09.579 --> 01:22:12.479 None of my Zigbee devices are working. And it's just totally busted. 01:22:13.099 --> 01:22:17.799 And it was, like, the day I left. And I haven't had a chance to look at it because, 01:22:17.939 --> 01:22:20.279 well, we got right back to the studio and did the show. So I haven't even really 01:22:20.279 --> 01:22:21.559 dug in yet and looked at the logs. 01:22:21.819 --> 01:22:24.939 But, man, is it a sucky thing. Because that kind of thing never happens to me 01:22:24.939 --> 01:22:26.219 on this. It's been so solid. 01:22:26.679 --> 01:22:30.059 And it's the built-in Home Assistant yellow radio, too. Oh. 01:22:31.339 --> 01:22:35.379 If anybody has any tips please let me know i am not looking forward to troubleshooting 01:22:35.379 --> 01:22:38.899 that one and thank you brad i will take those notes those are good ones appreciate that. 01:22:38.899 --> 01:22:45.959 Our last boost here is from magnolia mayhem 3 210 sats yeah. 01:22:45.959 --> 01:22:50.339 I think for context uh this is a live boost from uh our live stream earlier 01:22:50.339 --> 01:22:52.759 in the day during our um interview with john nice. 01:22:52.759 --> 01:22:57.939 In our interview there's a quote here accused of making ubuntu more like nix 01:22:57.939 --> 01:23:02.159 uh well magnolia mayhem says I fail to see the problem here. 01:23:03.899 --> 01:23:07.019 There could be some nice things to learn, right? You got to keep Ubuntu Ubuntu. 01:23:07.139 --> 01:23:08.839 I do agree there. People depend on that. 01:23:09.059 --> 01:23:11.959 But there's a lot to learn from all the great projects out there. 01:23:12.319 --> 01:23:15.459 I had so many more questions for John. I mean, so many more questions. 01:23:15.459 --> 01:23:15.599 Oh, yeah, same. 01:23:16.099 --> 01:23:19.379 So we'll try to get them back on soon. Thank you, everybody who supported the 01:23:19.379 --> 01:23:20.899 show with a boost or a membership. 01:23:21.139 --> 01:23:24.779 And thank you, everybody who also streamed Sats as you listen. 24 of you did that. 01:23:24.859 --> 01:23:29.419 And collectively, you Sat streamers stacked 39,018 Sats for the show. 01:23:29.419 --> 01:23:34.039 When you combine that with our boosters, we stacked a really very, 01:23:34.199 --> 01:23:40.539 very, very great 745,839 sats. 01:23:41.579 --> 01:23:46.679 And we are putting that towards the Texas Linux Fest trip. We did have a little 01:23:46.679 --> 01:23:47.919 extra travel going to Denver. 01:23:48.279 --> 01:23:52.739 And that's from almost 40 unique people out there. Isn't that crazy? 01:23:52.859 --> 01:23:55.759 That's great. Thank you, everybody. If you'd like to boost the show, 01:23:55.899 --> 01:23:59.939 Fountain.fm makes it real easy. That's a podcasting 2.0 client that just hosts all that. 01:24:00.299 --> 01:24:03.739 But you could keep your client, set up an Albi Hub, and use the podcast index 01:24:03.739 --> 01:24:06.279 or whatever you like. There's a lot of options there. 01:24:06.719 --> 01:24:09.579 Check it out at podcastapps.com. Fountain has been getting really, 01:24:09.719 --> 01:24:12.959 really good, too. They've been making some fantastic, fantastic improvements. 01:24:13.299 --> 01:24:17.199 And thank you to our members, linuxunplugged.com slash membership for putting 01:24:17.199 --> 01:24:20.159 that support on autopilot. We very much appreciate it. 01:24:22.004 --> 01:24:25.384 Now, our pick this week, this is the only the kind of thing that people that 01:24:25.384 --> 01:24:28.944 are absolutely exhausted and have been driving across the country would come up with. 01:24:29.224 --> 01:24:33.324 This would never make it into the show. Otherwise, I am aghast that we have this in here. 01:24:33.444 --> 01:24:37.704 Yeah. What do you what's your problem? It's the performance optimizer observation platform. 01:24:38.064 --> 01:24:44.364 Yeah. Poop for short. But and I love their tagline. Stop flushing your performance down the drain. 01:24:46.964 --> 01:24:47.944 You see what they did there? 01:24:48.504 --> 01:24:53.444 I think you'll like this, though. We don't have a sound effect yet, but it's 100% zig. 01:24:53.824 --> 01:24:54.204 Really? 01:24:54.404 --> 01:24:54.864 Yeah. Yeah. 01:24:55.104 --> 01:24:55.384 Okay. 01:24:55.744 --> 01:25:01.824 And it uses Linux's built-in perf event open functionality to compare the performance 01:25:01.824 --> 01:25:06.524 of multiple commands with a colorful terminal user interface. 01:25:06.524 --> 01:25:12.344 That's the part I like. So you're just building on some stuff that's existing 01:25:12.344 --> 01:25:16.524 in Linux to give you some really great comparisons in a very readable way. 01:25:16.824 --> 01:25:19.404 The name's silly, but the utility is there. 01:25:19.804 --> 01:25:23.584 Yeah, and folks might be familiar with Hyperfine, which is sort of a more mature 01:25:23.584 --> 01:25:27.904 project in this space, which bills itself as a command line benchmarking tool. 01:25:28.024 --> 01:25:30.144 So that's kind of where this thing is aimed, is you can, you know, 01:25:30.164 --> 01:25:33.684 maybe you've got different versions of something with different tweaks or comparing 01:25:33.684 --> 01:25:35.664 programs, doing the same kind of work. 01:25:36.244 --> 01:25:38.364 But how much Zig is that one written in? 01:25:38.624 --> 01:25:42.144 Well, that one's written in a combination of Rust and Python. 01:25:42.504 --> 01:25:42.964 You see? 01:25:43.504 --> 01:25:44.764 Yeah, 0% Zig. 01:25:44.804 --> 01:25:47.084 I asked Zig, that's 0% Zig. Yeah, right. This is 100% Zig. 01:25:47.084 --> 01:25:49.184 100% Zig native pick this week. 01:25:49.184 --> 01:25:53.764 You're welcome everybody and it is mit licensed so have at it as you will like 01:25:53.764 --> 01:25:58.384 or whatnot and we will have poop linked in the show notes like okay there you 01:25:58.384 --> 01:26:01.944 go see you could tell we're a little we're a little uh tipsy from the road we 01:26:01.944 --> 01:26:05.684 wouldn't have put that in there otherwise it was probably brent's idea gonna 01:26:05.684 --> 01:26:08.664 just go ahead and blame him on that one you know what i mean just go ahead and play, 01:26:12.064 --> 01:26:15.724 all right we will be live back at our regular time of course we'd love it if 01:26:15.724 --> 01:26:20.884 you join us over jblive.tv on a Sunday at 10 a.m. Pacific, 1 p.m. 01:26:21.264 --> 01:26:26.084 Eastern. Links to what we talked about are at linuxunplugged.com slash 636. 01:26:26.504 --> 01:26:29.784 And there's some good ones this week for Cosmic and, of course, the new Ubuntu release. 01:26:30.224 --> 01:26:35.724 Wes, if they are in a super power user podcasting app, we have some great, 01:26:35.924 --> 01:26:37.184 I don't know, features for them? 01:26:37.504 --> 01:26:41.244 Oh, yeah, we do. Well, we have cloud chapters so they can jump right to the 01:26:41.244 --> 01:26:43.844 content they like or listen to the show in whatever order. 01:26:43.964 --> 01:26:44.604 What else do we have? 01:26:44.604 --> 01:26:47.184 Well, if you want to take an even deeper dive into the show, 01:26:47.344 --> 01:26:48.604 check out our transcripts. 01:26:49.304 --> 01:26:50.044 We got transcripts now. 01:26:50.184 --> 01:26:53.484 Yeah, plenty of apps. And some of them even show our speaker diarization so 01:26:53.484 --> 01:26:55.044 you can tell which of us said the dumb thing. 01:26:55.164 --> 01:26:59.144 I love it. All right. We'll have a big show for you. So join us right back here next week.
Previous episode

Related episodes

Search

Search

Listen on

Apple Podcasts Spotify RSS feed

Tags

Texas