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The Sunday Soapbox

Nov 30, 2025
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We pull on a few loose threads from recent episodes, and some of them unravel into way more than we expected.

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Transcript

WEBVTT 00:00:11.423 --> 00:00:17.023 Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. 00:00:17.243 --> 00:00:18.423 My name is Wes. 00:00:18.663 --> 00:00:19.723 And my name is Brent. 00:00:20.523 --> 00:00:24.563 Hello, the gentlemen. Well, coming up on this week's of the show, 00:00:24.703 --> 00:00:28.623 we're going to stop the clock a little bit, pull a few loose threads from recent episodes. 00:00:29.143 --> 00:00:32.003 And, well, some of them may unravel into something that we didn't expect. 00:00:32.223 --> 00:00:35.563 But the idea is to catch up on a few things and then round out the show with 00:00:35.563 --> 00:00:39.323 some great boosts and picks and a lot more. So before we get there, 00:00:39.563 --> 00:00:42.903 let's do a little business and say time-appropriate greetings to our virtual 00:00:42.903 --> 00:00:43.883 lug. Hello, Mumble Room! 00:00:47.916 --> 00:00:52.756 Hello, and hello all you up there in the quiet listening and everybody out there on the streams. 00:00:53.216 --> 00:00:56.836 Thank you for being here this morning. And a big good morning to our friends 00:00:56.836 --> 00:00:59.736 over at Defined Networking. 00:00:59.856 --> 00:01:03.416 Go check out Manage Nebula at defined.net slash unplug. 00:01:04.016 --> 00:01:08.456 They've taken the Nebula project and they've made it easy for anyone to use. 00:01:08.536 --> 00:01:13.016 When you go to defined.net slash unplug, you can sign up for 100 devices for 00:01:13.016 --> 00:01:16.576 free, no credit card required, and try out the world's most robust, 00:01:17.196 --> 00:01:19.456 industry-leading mesh network. 00:01:19.676 --> 00:01:22.576 One of the things that I've learned over the years is that when I'm building 00:01:22.576 --> 00:01:25.016 my infrastructure, I want something that will last a long time. 00:01:25.036 --> 00:01:30.796 And when you really wrap your head around how useful a mesh network is, I mean, it's next level. 00:01:30.996 --> 00:01:33.916 It will completely change the way you do networking for the better. 00:01:34.056 --> 00:01:37.956 And so when you start to really think that way, you also start thinking long-term. 00:01:38.136 --> 00:01:41.556 And what I love about Nebula is absolutely everything is self-hostable. 00:01:41.796 --> 00:01:45.016 It's not just sort of like a secondary thing that they kind of have available. 00:01:45.216 --> 00:01:46.596 It's how they build the product. 00:01:46.816 --> 00:01:50.336 It started that way back in 2017 from the very get-go to protect Slack. 00:01:50.336 --> 00:01:52.256 They had to build it ready to go. 00:01:52.416 --> 00:01:55.876 And now they've made it easy for anyone to use. And at any point you want to 00:01:55.876 --> 00:01:57.456 self-host the infrastructure, you can. 00:01:57.756 --> 00:02:01.676 So support the show and get started by going to defined.net slash unplugged. 00:02:02.256 --> 00:02:06.956 Redefine your VPN experience today. Defined.net slash unplugged. 00:02:10.236 --> 00:02:15.656 So I want to make sure that we remind everybody that we want your submissions. We've got a nice batch. 00:02:15.856 --> 00:02:20.376 We don't need thousands, but I'd like to have some more because just around 00:02:20.376 --> 00:02:24.576 the corner, it's something special for the holidays. It's the great Holiday Home Lab. 00:02:35.863 --> 00:02:38.603 It is that magical time of year. Hopefully your servers are humming. 00:02:39.003 --> 00:02:42.103 Someone out there's NAS is running in a cardboard box, no doubt. 00:02:42.543 --> 00:02:46.203 We want to see it all from the best home labs to the worst. Send them in. 00:02:46.363 --> 00:02:51.323 It's our great holiday home lab. The first ever, go to linuxunplugged.com slash 00:02:51.323 --> 00:02:54.783 holiday, where we will redirect you to a Google form. 00:02:54.943 --> 00:02:58.723 If you don't want to use the Google form, you can make our jobs harder by going 00:02:58.723 --> 00:03:02.063 to linuxunplugged.com slash old fart, and then you can figure out how to take 00:03:02.063 --> 00:03:06.083 that and put it in an email with links to stuff and make it work good because it doesn't work good. 00:03:06.183 --> 00:03:08.983 I don't know if I'm even going to have the time. I'm just telling you. 00:03:09.423 --> 00:03:12.643 But that's LinuxUnplugged.com slash old fart. Submit some photos, 00:03:12.843 --> 00:03:16.083 short descriptions, your hardware list. Tell us what your home lab actually does. 00:03:16.843 --> 00:03:19.923 We're going to have some awards to give away. The Grand Rack Award, 00:03:20.103 --> 00:03:24.403 the Silver Pseudo Award, the Best Effort Award, and then the LUP Rescue Mission 00:03:24.803 --> 00:03:29.883 for the home lab that really needs it. And we may even make an episode out of that one in the future. 00:03:30.103 --> 00:03:32.823 So we'll be scoring them on functionality, design, ingenuity, 00:03:32.943 --> 00:03:36.263 efficiency, documentation, personality, effort, We've had some other suggestions 00:03:36.263 --> 00:03:37.203 we may be incorporating. 00:03:37.583 --> 00:03:41.923 So the entries are open right now. Get your Homelab in. It doesn't have to be 00:03:41.923 --> 00:03:44.343 a killer, although you're welcome to show off a killer. 00:03:45.063 --> 00:03:48.723 And later in December, we'll be kicking off the great Homelab. 00:03:49.743 --> 00:03:53.023 What do you call it? I guess voting? No? Results? I guess it's the results. 00:03:53.263 --> 00:03:55.723 It's the results show. The award show? I don't know. 00:03:56.023 --> 00:03:56.743 Homelab review. 00:03:56.883 --> 00:03:59.623 We are giving away some awards, so I guess it's technically going to be an award 00:03:59.623 --> 00:04:00.783 show. I don't know if we'll call it that. 00:04:00.963 --> 00:04:04.683 That doesn't matter. What matters is don't be a procrastinator. 00:04:04.683 --> 00:04:09.563 Go to linuxunplugged.com slash holiday, get them in so that way we can all have 00:04:09.563 --> 00:04:13.143 a magical home lab holiday thing. It's going to be a lot of fun. 00:04:14.346 --> 00:04:15.546 Can't wait to see people send in. 00:04:15.846 --> 00:04:18.626 Yeah, think about it. Some people will be away from their home labs at the holidays. 00:04:18.626 --> 00:04:22.186 So this maybe will help them feel like their home lab. 00:04:24.466 --> 00:04:29.126 So, you know, one of the challenges of doing a weekly show is finding time to 00:04:29.126 --> 00:04:32.646 stop and talk about stuff we've already talked about. Because you're always kind of moving forward. 00:04:33.126 --> 00:04:37.426 And sometimes we cover something and our thoughts change on it. We use it for a while. 00:04:38.106 --> 00:04:42.046 Or a project changes or has updates. And that's really just one example. 00:04:42.186 --> 00:04:43.086 Probably I could give you hundreds. 00:04:43.606 --> 00:04:46.466 And it's something I wish we could do more often because there is going to be 00:04:46.466 --> 00:04:48.466 some recency bias when we do this sort of thing. 00:04:48.646 --> 00:04:51.366 So it'd be nice if we could do it a little more often, but as we're kind of 00:04:51.366 --> 00:04:55.086 in the holiday season, I thought this would be a good time to look at some of our leftovers. 00:04:55.806 --> 00:04:59.546 And I want to touch on something that came up recently on the show. 00:05:00.724 --> 00:05:04.444 I came up with a really fun way to spin up an Ngrok tunnel on demand. 00:05:04.624 --> 00:05:07.804 And then Wes comes along and says, why don't you try Jelly Swarm instead? 00:05:08.464 --> 00:05:12.344 And I thought, hmm, OK. The Jelly Swarm, if you don't remember, 00:05:12.504 --> 00:05:15.364 brings all your Jellyfin servers together in one proxy interface. 00:05:15.564 --> 00:05:18.484 You can have multiple Jellyfin servers on private networks. 00:05:18.904 --> 00:05:19.924 And then depending on how you 00:05:19.924 --> 00:05:23.324 make that networking work, you can kind of watch them all from one place. 00:05:24.264 --> 00:05:27.664 And that was essentially what I was trying to accomplish. So I do have an old 00:05:27.664 --> 00:05:32.744 VPS that I say is sort of an orbit around Lady Joops. and that is already on my mesh network. 00:05:32.964 --> 00:05:36.264 So that just made sense because that server can already talk to the Jellyfin server. 00:05:36.344 --> 00:05:37.084 Problem solved. 00:05:37.184 --> 00:05:43.304 And it has a public IP. So I quite easily installed JellySwarm on this VPS. 00:05:43.524 --> 00:05:44.924 You probably just Docker containers. 00:05:45.184 --> 00:05:48.324 Yeah. Really quick because it's an old Ubuntu LTS system. 00:05:48.904 --> 00:05:51.744 And boy, that's it, man. 00:05:51.784 --> 00:05:55.504 It's like because I already was on my mesh network, I just gave it the IP of 00:05:55.504 --> 00:05:59.544 my Jellyfin server and the credentials. I love the way it does the mapping for 00:05:59.544 --> 00:06:00.744 user logins and accounts. 00:06:01.344 --> 00:06:06.544 And it works so great that I'm just totally going to rip out that Endrock tunnel for Jellyfin. 00:06:06.704 --> 00:06:09.344 You're not going to make it, like, turn on your swarm or something? 00:06:09.684 --> 00:06:14.304 What I'm going to do is I'm going to use that Endrock setup, 00:06:14.344 --> 00:06:18.464 or maybe another setup I'll come back to, for NextCloud and Utah, 00:06:18.584 --> 00:06:19.484 which I'll talk about in a moment. 00:06:19.884 --> 00:06:22.404 But I might just leave my swarm on all the time. 00:06:23.450 --> 00:06:24.470 I might just leave it on all the time. 00:06:24.730 --> 00:06:26.170 All right. I like it. 00:06:26.250 --> 00:06:27.050 I'm thinking about that. 00:06:27.170 --> 00:06:30.310 I'm a wee bit sad because you were so proud of that Ngrok setup. 00:06:30.410 --> 00:06:33.330 And then Wes just came along and was like, well, here you go. 00:06:33.730 --> 00:06:36.150 It's already solved for you. And it's even better. 00:06:37.510 --> 00:06:41.130 It is better. It's a jellyfin specific solution. And in my opinion, 00:06:41.310 --> 00:06:45.650 if you're comfortable setting this kind of thing up, it more than answers the Plex sharing problem. 00:06:46.890 --> 00:06:51.330 To me, it's a solved problem now. So that's really nice. But I do think there 00:06:51.330 --> 00:06:53.230 is use for network tunnels. I still think there is. 00:06:53.450 --> 00:06:54.550 Yeah, definitely, of course. 00:06:55.010 --> 00:06:59.230 Sweepy posted, I was yelling Pangolin at my screen hearing you talk about the 00:06:59.230 --> 00:07:00.530 ngrok for Jellyfin access. 00:07:00.890 --> 00:07:04.410 Pangolin supports a variety of auth methods, including temporary share links 00:07:04.410 --> 00:07:06.250 that you could drop right in your setup. 00:07:06.750 --> 00:07:10.670 And it's an identity-aware tunneled reverse proxy server that comes with a dashboard UI. 00:07:10.770 --> 00:07:14.830 You can do self-hosted version, and it has a reverse proxy server with identity 00:07:14.830 --> 00:07:16.450 and context-aware access controls 00:07:16.450 --> 00:07:20.850 designed to easily expose and protect applications running anywhere. 00:07:20.850 --> 00:07:23.830 It can act as a central hub that connects isolated networks, 00:07:23.970 --> 00:07:27.450 even those behind restrictive firewalls, through encrypted tunnels enabling 00:07:27.450 --> 00:07:32.970 easy access to remote services without opening ports or requiring a VPN. 00:07:35.007 --> 00:07:40.827 I am, I was aware of this project, but kind of like Ngrok, I'd never really used it. 00:07:40.927 --> 00:07:43.227 And so for some reason, I just didn't, it didn't come to mind. 00:07:43.747 --> 00:07:45.247 But I kind of, I kind of wonder. 00:07:45.367 --> 00:07:46.067 Well, you're only kind of using. 00:07:47.067 --> 00:07:47.387 Yes. 00:07:47.667 --> 00:07:51.267 Right. Let's like set up an authenticated identity aware project specifically 00:07:51.267 --> 00:07:54.067 to only use a temporary access part of it. Maybe. 00:07:54.227 --> 00:07:56.567 I was wondering your take on this. Do you think this is overkill? 00:07:57.507 --> 00:08:01.447 It depends because depending on how much friction there is, that might not actually 00:08:01.447 --> 00:08:04.627 be a bad thing at all. And you might find, as usual with good software, 00:08:04.887 --> 00:08:08.127 that you like other aspects of it. Or you want to use it to expose more. 00:08:08.507 --> 00:08:15.367 Maybe you expose more of your things if they're all put behind 2FA'd proper authentication. 00:08:16.287 --> 00:08:19.407 I do like that it's AGPL3 and you can self-host it. 00:08:20.087 --> 00:08:24.607 Yeah, it is a neat project. I've only played with it, set it up as a test one 00:08:24.607 --> 00:08:27.027 time. But I know a lot of people do seem to like it. 00:08:28.247 --> 00:08:30.367 Well, Sweepy sure does. He was screaming at it. 00:08:30.367 --> 00:08:35.307 We got multiple folks writing in about Pangolin, both in the Matrix and across a few channels. 00:08:35.487 --> 00:08:38.567 And I saw it in his package for NixOS with some options. 00:08:38.727 --> 00:08:43.007 Well, now you don't have an excuse. If you could just turn it on with a quick option. 00:08:43.907 --> 00:08:46.687 Here's what I'm going to use my Ngrok tunnel for, or maybe Pangolin. 00:08:46.867 --> 00:08:48.087 I do think it would be, sorry. 00:08:48.247 --> 00:08:48.727 Oh, no, go ahead. 00:08:48.847 --> 00:08:53.547 I do think it would be informative, maybe, to set it up and just see what the 00:08:53.547 --> 00:08:58.907 actual swap out from Ngrok to Pangolin would be like as a potential way to evaluate, 00:08:58.907 --> 00:09:00.247 like, oh, what do you like about it? 00:09:00.367 --> 00:09:01.607 Yeah, my first impressions. 00:09:01.607 --> 00:09:02.747 Was- Even if you throw it all away. 00:09:03.047 --> 00:09:06.247 It was a lot. It was my first impression. It was a lot. I do like, 00:09:06.327 --> 00:09:09.287 so it has a dashboard where you can toggle tunnels on and off and stuff like 00:09:09.287 --> 00:09:10.167 that and see the status. And an API. 00:09:10.647 --> 00:09:13.867 But I'm already achieving that same thing with Home Assistant, 00:09:14.107 --> 00:09:17.167 which is already a workflow I already use and my family uses. 00:09:17.747 --> 00:09:20.507 I imagine I could probably do the same thing with Pangolin. Probably tied in 00:09:20.507 --> 00:09:21.367 Home Assistant, no problem. 00:09:22.737 --> 00:09:24.917 I sort of solved for that problem already. I don't really need a dashboard. 00:09:26.177 --> 00:09:28.897 I don't know. All right. So here's what I will be using a tunnel for. 00:09:29.297 --> 00:09:33.157 Not for me, actually, but for the wife. And this is an app pick that we had 00:09:33.157 --> 00:09:36.317 that was on my radar. Wanted to try it more. 00:09:36.757 --> 00:09:39.597 Wes found it. And the audience wrote and said, this is really good. 00:09:39.717 --> 00:09:41.717 And I'm like, OK, this week I'm going to try Utah. 00:09:42.417 --> 00:09:46.517 It, as you might recall, is a self-hosted web app that automates downloading, 00:09:46.717 --> 00:09:48.797 organizing, and scheduling YouTube channel content. 00:09:49.457 --> 00:09:56.157 A la flat pinch or pinch flat, sorry. But a couple of things I like a little bit better. 00:09:56.717 --> 00:10:01.717 It's a lot better at one-off video downloads. That's killer for what my wife wanted. 00:10:01.937 --> 00:10:05.377 So this is a common scenario that happens a few times a week. 00:10:05.497 --> 00:10:07.037 It's not horrible, but it's a few times a week. 00:10:07.377 --> 00:10:10.677 I get a telegram from the wife that says, hey, so-and-so said we should really 00:10:10.677 --> 00:10:12.637 check out this video. Can you grab it for us? 00:10:13.397 --> 00:10:14.957 I'm like, yeah, no problem. That's a problem. I'll go get it. 00:10:15.457 --> 00:10:16.837 And I've been doing that for years. 00:10:17.057 --> 00:10:20.797 And then this comes along. And I'm like, oh, wait a minute. If I combine this 00:10:20.797 --> 00:10:24.717 with the Ngrok tunnel, she can just plug the URL in at work. 00:10:24.857 --> 00:10:25.217 Yes. 00:10:25.537 --> 00:10:28.177 And then when she gets home, they're all queued up on the Jellyfin server, 00:10:28.297 --> 00:10:32.517 ready to go. And we don't have to watch them over YouTube, over our crappy LD 00:10:32.517 --> 00:10:33.337 connection at the moment. 00:10:33.477 --> 00:10:33.957 I love that. 00:10:34.077 --> 00:10:36.837 You're like outsourcing your main purpose at home. 00:10:37.957 --> 00:10:41.477 I mean, I've thought about this so much over the years, both for myself and 00:10:41.477 --> 00:10:45.837 for past partners. Like, I think at one point I had a basic CGI form that would 00:10:45.837 --> 00:10:48.837 just run YTTLP and dump it to like a Dropbox. 00:10:48.997 --> 00:10:52.417 Or I've thought about, you know, a web interface you could load in videos that 00:10:52.417 --> 00:10:55.977 would just sort of get mixed into a live stream that you constantly Chromecasted. 00:10:56.057 --> 00:10:59.957 But now that everything just integrates with Jellyfin, I mean, that's the way to go. 00:11:00.137 --> 00:11:04.337 So what's really great is, and I hadn't played with this before, 00:11:04.337 --> 00:11:08.537 we talked about this as a pick, is it has integrated sponsor block. 00:11:09.518 --> 00:11:15.178 And so that's really nice. I don't go crazy with that. But as somebody who's 00:11:15.178 --> 00:11:19.258 made videos and audio for a long time, 00:11:19.458 --> 00:11:24.478 I hate the double intro where they tell you what they're going to tell you. 00:11:24.538 --> 00:11:26.578 Then they do an intro and then they tell you what they're going to tell you again. 00:11:27.358 --> 00:11:31.078 Oh, my God. It drives me crazy. It's such a waste of time. So like Sponsor Block 00:11:31.078 --> 00:11:33.898 lets you skip intros and stuff like that. I'm all about that. 00:11:34.018 --> 00:11:38.158 I don't need to see their $75 motion graphics that they paid for for their YouTube channel. 00:11:38.158 --> 00:11:39.218 Every single time. 00:11:39.218 --> 00:11:43.018 With their music they think is super great and all of that. So it just lets 00:11:43.018 --> 00:11:44.558 me skip all of that integrated. 00:11:44.778 --> 00:11:47.838 But then the other thing that's really fantastic, I'm not a Plex user, 00:11:47.958 --> 00:11:52.258 but it will still download metadata information and NFO and thumbnails and whatnot 00:11:52.258 --> 00:11:55.598 and save them in a format Jellyfin just immediately ingests. 00:11:55.758 --> 00:12:00.818 So when she sits down and pulls up Jellyfin, it looks like all the other videos 00:12:00.818 --> 00:12:05.858 and it sits right nicely next to our Pinchflat videos, which I'm using Pinchflat 00:12:05.858 --> 00:12:08.618 to download channels as they post. 00:12:08.618 --> 00:12:10.998 So like this channel, every time they post, I'm downloading that video. 00:12:12.078 --> 00:12:14.678 I'm using Utar, which you could use it that way, 00:12:15.744 --> 00:12:17.564 Could, so you could just use one tool to do both. 00:12:17.724 --> 00:12:19.444 Right, you already had Pinchflat. I already had Pinchflat. 00:12:19.564 --> 00:12:21.304 I'm using Utah for the one-off download. 00:12:21.424 --> 00:12:22.144 I love that. 00:12:22.364 --> 00:12:24.844 And then I have to go to a specific spot on the file system, 00:12:24.844 --> 00:12:26.884 so I know those are all Utah downloads. 00:12:27.064 --> 00:12:28.024 Gets classified the right way. 00:12:28.224 --> 00:12:32.844 And also, I've discovered now, it handles really well at recovering failed downloads. 00:12:32.964 --> 00:12:36.364 I had a download bail on me, and that's worked nice. 00:12:36.524 --> 00:12:39.624 The web UI works good on the wife's phone. It works good on her laptop. 00:12:41.004 --> 00:12:45.524 So this is a winner app. I can tell already it's going to be in a category of 00:12:45.524 --> 00:12:47.444 winners. Now, there are a couple of things I'd love to see. 00:12:48.684 --> 00:12:54.724 It'd be nice if you could have it download channels on the regular, like I use Pinchflat. 00:12:54.824 --> 00:12:57.664 So every time a channel posts a video, every time Jupyter Broadcasting has a 00:12:57.664 --> 00:12:58.704 video, it automatically downloads. 00:12:59.604 --> 00:13:04.424 It'd be nice if those could go to one place and my manual one-off downloads 00:13:04.424 --> 00:13:06.644 could go to a totally different location. 00:13:07.684 --> 00:13:10.784 Optional, but it'd be nice. Currently, it's all going to one spot. 00:13:10.784 --> 00:13:12.184 You only have one place to target it. 00:13:12.184 --> 00:13:14.804 Yeah, and if you download a channel, it creates a subdirectory for that channel. 00:13:14.864 --> 00:13:17.244 But if you download a one-off, it doesn't create a subdirectory for just that 00:13:17.244 --> 00:13:20.864 video. They're just in the root, and it's just not how I do my Jellyfin. 00:13:21.284 --> 00:13:22.524 I'd like to have a cleaner Jellyfin. 00:13:23.344 --> 00:13:27.444 But I do love it for those one-off downloads, and that's sort of a small gripe. 00:13:28.024 --> 00:13:30.844 And since I'm using Pinchflat to manage the channels, it's not really an issue for me. 00:13:31.544 --> 00:13:37.264 But setting subfolders for manual downloads would be great. I did see issue 00:13:37.264 --> 00:13:39.624 287 on the project. Actually, somebody already flagged that. 00:13:40.304 --> 00:13:45.684 I was like, I'll just go give this a plug. one give it the old plus one but 00:13:45.684 --> 00:13:51.404 man a couple of winners and then before I'm done with my holiday leftovers for you boys, 00:13:52.562 --> 00:13:56.962 I got to give a huge mention to, I think, one of the MVPs of this year. 00:13:57.562 --> 00:14:02.602 We covered it multiple times on the podcast, but we called the big D, Darowich. 00:14:03.262 --> 00:14:07.182 It is a self-hostable alternative to Google Timeline for your location history. 00:14:07.662 --> 00:14:10.502 And it's very comprehensive. They have a standalone app for iOS. 00:14:10.502 --> 00:14:12.382 You can integrate it with things like OwnTracks. 00:14:12.642 --> 00:14:16.042 If you have Home Assistant, there's an integration where Home Assistant can 00:14:16.042 --> 00:14:17.802 collect your location and then send it to Darowich. 00:14:19.442 --> 00:14:23.222 And it's been our constant companion. I'm running it still since we talked about 00:14:23.222 --> 00:14:24.202 it the first time on the show. 00:14:24.502 --> 00:14:28.162 It was the back end to our Texas tracker. It powered our Texas tracker. 00:14:28.662 --> 00:14:34.022 And there have been many releases since we deployed. I was shocked. 00:14:34.522 --> 00:14:39.602 So we deployed version 2.8. And they're on like version 3.6 now. 00:14:39.722 --> 00:14:41.062 Oh, that's exciting. 00:14:41.402 --> 00:14:47.442 0.36. Yeah. Yeah. It's massive, massive improvements since we first talked about 00:14:47.442 --> 00:14:52.102 it on the show. So, I mean, lots of refactoring little components. 00:14:52.162 --> 00:14:55.702 So, like, some of the subsystems that process subtasks run a lot more efficient. 00:14:56.822 --> 00:15:01.022 Cleanup of the UI in general. Just a little bit of, you know, fixing a bug here. 00:15:01.422 --> 00:15:01.702 Polish. 00:15:02.162 --> 00:15:04.082 Performance issue there. Right, exactly. A lot of that. 00:15:05.585 --> 00:15:08.585 So that all aside, there's a few things that really stood out to me. 00:15:09.205 --> 00:15:12.385 In the .29 release that came out a little bit after we deployed, 00:15:12.805 --> 00:15:17.305 they greatly improved the data export. So you can move data between instances. 00:15:17.545 --> 00:15:20.465 So if you want to export from one Darawitch instance and set up a new one, 00:15:20.505 --> 00:15:22.165 you can just move your data and all your history comes. 00:15:22.285 --> 00:15:23.685 That's great. That seems perfect for us. 00:15:23.765 --> 00:15:27.085 Yep. Really nice. We will definitely be using that. And then in the next version, 00:15:27.325 --> 00:15:33.105 well, a couple of versions later, actually version 3.0.31, they call this the 00:15:33.105 --> 00:15:36.265 search release. They introduced a new search feature that allows you to search 00:15:36.265 --> 00:15:37.545 for all the places you've traveled. 00:15:37.685 --> 00:15:38.905 Oh, that's killer. 00:15:39.145 --> 00:15:42.945 That is obviously needed. Here's a big one for me. A little bit later, 00:15:43.085 --> 00:15:46.185 version 0.34 released on October 10th, 2025. 00:15:46.685 --> 00:15:50.965 This is the family release. This release, we are introducing family features 00:15:50.965 --> 00:15:55.165 that allow users to create family groups, invite members, and share location data. 00:15:55.525 --> 00:15:59.285 Family owners can manage members, control sharing settings, and ensure secure 00:15:59.285 --> 00:16:02.405 access to shared information. Location sharing is optional and can be enabled 00:16:02.405 --> 00:16:03.965 or disabled by each member individually. 00:16:04.465 --> 00:16:07.925 Users can only join one family at a time. Location sharing settings can be set 00:16:07.925 --> 00:16:11.105 to share location for 1, 6, 12, or 24 hours or permanently. 00:16:12.265 --> 00:16:14.785 And they're available for self-hosted instances. It will be available when they 00:16:14.785 --> 00:16:15.865 have a cloud version in the future. 00:16:16.325 --> 00:16:19.745 The family members layer is enabled on the maps too, so you can see where your 00:16:19.745 --> 00:16:21.625 member markers are and turn them on and off on that layer. 00:16:22.045 --> 00:16:24.925 Right, because before it had users, but they were all kind of separate, 00:16:25.105 --> 00:16:27.965 right? It was more of just like a multiplexed kind of use the service. 00:16:27.985 --> 00:16:30.145 We were each at our own map, basically. 00:16:30.425 --> 00:16:35.065 And we combined it on our own by just pulling from the API. Oh, wow, that's nice. 00:16:35.205 --> 00:16:40.645 It is. And also for those of you that maybe switched to Graphene OS from iOS, 00:16:42.024 --> 00:16:45.804 Maybe you've been looking for a good Find My replacement. This could be it. 00:16:46.564 --> 00:16:49.344 I use Home Assistant for that, but this could be even better. 00:16:49.544 --> 00:16:50.784 You've got a nice web UI now. 00:16:51.324 --> 00:16:54.944 That's massive. So that was on the 10th of October. 00:16:55.324 --> 00:16:59.684 And they've had some steady releases since then. They just had a release a couple of days ago. 00:17:01.184 --> 00:17:06.624 And so I did the right thing and updated my private instance this morning before the show. 00:17:06.744 --> 00:17:10.044 Probably not even. Probably just skipping right from wherever you were at to the latest release. 00:17:10.044 --> 00:17:16.404 I went from, well, thankfully, thankfully, I was just one release after a breaking change. 00:17:17.304 --> 00:17:22.424 So if I was one release older, I would have had to do some Docker composer factoring, 00:17:22.424 --> 00:17:24.904 and I would have to switch from one database to Redis. 00:17:25.064 --> 00:17:28.084 I don't know what the previous database was, but there was a database software 00:17:28.084 --> 00:17:30.484 migration to a totally different software. 00:17:30.884 --> 00:17:34.724 I would have had to do all of that. But I just missed that, and I went and I skimmed it. 00:17:34.784 --> 00:17:37.844 I have the change log linked in the show notes if you're in a similar position, 00:17:37.984 --> 00:17:40.104 listener. I went through it, I skimmed it, I'm like, holy crap, 00:17:40.224 --> 00:17:43.644 this is, oh man, this is so good, oh, I gotta do it. 00:17:45.264 --> 00:17:50.464 I can't not have this. And you couldn't even, because you hadn't updated it 00:17:50.464 --> 00:17:52.564 yet, you couldn't even do the export beforehand. 00:17:53.104 --> 00:17:55.984 Nope, nope, I just yellowed in. But it worked. 00:17:56.564 --> 00:17:59.804 It was a big download, it was almost 600 megabytes of layers, 00:17:59.964 --> 00:18:02.844 I guess it's not horrible, but on LTE it was painful. 00:18:04.884 --> 00:18:08.164 And rebooted the sucker, came right back up, still talking to home assistants, 00:18:08.484 --> 00:18:10.124 still getting my location. It's fabulous. 00:18:11.049 --> 00:18:15.269 Love having this because I've been driving around a bit for kids' sports events 00:18:15.269 --> 00:18:17.269 and stuff like that. And so just going to different places. 00:18:17.449 --> 00:18:19.869 And so now pulling that up on the map, like, oh, yeah, I went over there last 00:18:19.869 --> 00:18:23.489 week. I forgot about that. I never go over there. So that's been fun. 00:18:23.909 --> 00:18:27.229 Yeah, the pros of the old Google location tracking, but without, 00:18:27.389 --> 00:18:28.829 you know, all the creepy downsides. 00:18:28.989 --> 00:18:32.189 Yeah, it is. And when you set up a new family member, it gives you a QR. 00:18:32.269 --> 00:18:33.749 If they're on iOS, they make it 00:18:33.749 --> 00:18:37.929 really easy because they have a dedicated location tracking app for iOS. 00:18:38.109 --> 00:18:42.509 And so you can hear a family member scan this QR code. It sets up the iOS Darowich 00:18:42.509 --> 00:18:44.589 tracking app, and it looks really straightforward. 00:18:44.969 --> 00:18:50.229 And even if you're on Android, there's a dozen easy ways, including just using Home Assistant. 00:18:50.269 --> 00:18:50.869 Just do that. 00:18:50.949 --> 00:18:53.869 Just use Home Assistant. Just do that. You only have one thing tracking your location. 00:18:55.049 --> 00:18:58.389 Massive, massive recommendation. So that's a little bit of my holiday leftovers. 00:18:58.569 --> 00:19:02.629 I mean, I could go on for the whole episode. We've really found some bangers this year. 00:19:04.609 --> 00:19:07.789 But maybe I don't know. Maybe you got something for you. You got a holiday leftover 00:19:07.789 --> 00:19:11.029 for us, Wes Payne, for the class to share? you know something to chat about. 00:19:11.029 --> 00:19:16.769 Yeah um i actually i have something i want to work through oh a question okay 00:19:16.769 --> 00:19:20.749 or like maybe how to frame how to view something happening in the kernel because 00:19:20.749 --> 00:19:26.169 i'm not entirely sure how i feel oh boy and i don't know if this is a year of vindication, 00:19:26.929 --> 00:19:29.849 or a year of chris was right. 00:19:29.849 --> 00:19:31.569 Oh i like it already. 00:19:31.569 --> 00:19:37.509 Yeah i thought you might i thought you might So it turns out it's been a bit 00:19:37.509 --> 00:19:41.609 of a busy year for our friend KSMBT. 00:19:42.049 --> 00:19:45.929 Oh, the Samba server that got built into the Linux kernel by Samsung. 00:19:46.189 --> 00:19:49.089 Yeah, that's right. One of your favorite parts of the Linux kernel. 00:19:49.409 --> 00:19:52.989 Yep, yep. We can't have BKatch FS, but we've got a Samba server built into our 00:19:52.989 --> 00:19:53.809 kernel. What could go wrong? 00:19:53.969 --> 00:19:56.349 Yeah. How many commits do you think that thing sees in a year? 00:19:57.089 --> 00:20:00.149 Oh, that's a great question, Wes. I don't even think I've ever considered that. 00:20:00.149 --> 00:20:02.029 I mean, the year's in over, so I've been looking at 2025. But, you know. 00:20:02.329 --> 00:20:03.029 In a whole year? 00:20:03.169 --> 00:20:03.389 Yeah. 00:20:03.389 --> 00:20:04.549 In a whole year? Oh. 00:20:06.002 --> 00:20:11.342 I mean, you should think it'd be mostly done. So I'm going to say less than 1,000. 00:20:11.742 --> 00:20:15.882 Oh, yeah, yeah. It was more than I thought at 194. 00:20:16.462 --> 00:20:19.302 Well, I was going to say 100, but then I thought, well, then I thought you were 00:20:19.302 --> 00:20:21.462 going to get me with they've had a whole bunch of security issues, 00:20:21.542 --> 00:20:23.602 so they've had to do a whole bunch of commits or something. 00:20:23.802 --> 00:20:26.242 I was going to guess 10 because I figured they weren't doing anything. 00:20:26.902 --> 00:20:27.542 Doing nothing. 00:20:27.962 --> 00:20:29.362 It is kind of that. 00:20:29.582 --> 00:20:29.882 Oh, OK. 00:20:29.882 --> 00:20:37.122 Because 91 of the, no, sorry, 41 of those match on a grep for something like 00:20:37.122 --> 00:20:44.682 fix, leak, crash, overflow, use after free, recursive locking and RPC handle. Let's see here. 00:20:45.082 --> 00:20:49.582 Fix possible ref count leak. Fix possible memory leak. Fix race condition. 00:20:49.962 --> 00:20:51.822 There's just a whole bunch of those. 00:20:52.502 --> 00:20:56.402 It's not all bad, though, right? So just a bit of history. 00:20:57.362 --> 00:20:59.202 KSMBD came out in 2021. 00:20:59.882 --> 00:21:02.502 Right, right. We were doing Linux action news at the time. 00:21:02.682 --> 00:21:06.962 And then somewhere like late 2022, maybe it was early 2023, I think it was kernel 00:21:06.962 --> 00:21:11.802 6.6, it got marked as no longer experimental, marked quote-unquote stable. 00:21:12.142 --> 00:21:12.542 Okay. 00:21:12.782 --> 00:21:17.182 So another part of this story, I think, is what does it mean to be in the kernel 00:21:17.182 --> 00:21:21.182 in terms of like the contract for the user and what to expect out of something? 00:21:21.182 --> 00:21:24.742 Between even you know even after post-experimental status 00:21:24.742 --> 00:21:27.542 right there's there's one kind of version where you want to 00:21:27.542 --> 00:21:30.962 have access to stuff so that you get to make the call around do 00:21:30.962 --> 00:21:33.602 i want to use that software and butterfs is another one of these things right 00:21:33.602 --> 00:21:37.962 we've seen enterprise distros not ship it red hat particular red hat does not 00:21:37.962 --> 00:21:42.042 ship ksmpd they specifically said they were going to take a conservative approach 00:21:42.042 --> 00:21:46.482 and not enable it okay but maybe we feel differently about those two choices, 00:21:46.702 --> 00:21:47.842 which, I mean, makes sense. 00:21:48.542 --> 00:21:56.262 Huh. So this, to me, too, this is a great question because I think in the broader context... 00:21:57.615 --> 00:22:03.555 There's been a lot of controversy around Rust and a lot of drama and social brigading. 00:22:04.415 --> 00:22:06.955 And there has, of course, been the BcashFS situation. 00:22:08.615 --> 00:22:11.595 And there is this situation. These are all oddities to me. 00:22:11.875 --> 00:22:15.875 And they all seem, I think the core thing that you're getting to is they all 00:22:15.875 --> 00:22:18.175 seem to maybe have a different standard being applied to them. 00:22:19.895 --> 00:22:23.695 And that's really hitting me at this moment is like they really tolerated a 00:22:23.695 --> 00:22:28.775 lot of shenanigans from Rust. and including Linus yelling at some longtime committers to STFU. 00:22:30.604 --> 00:22:37.104 And that this Samba server is in this kernel so that way a few hundred thousand 00:22:37.104 --> 00:22:41.124 million Samsung devices can have faster file transfer? 00:22:41.484 --> 00:22:45.604 So that's where it's interesting. So it does continue to see development, as we've seen. 00:22:45.884 --> 00:22:51.064 Just coming in 6.18, which maybe is out today, there's improved session, 00:22:51.264 --> 00:22:54.824 sharing, connection, lookup performance. They're also adding a new max IP connections 00:22:54.824 --> 00:22:59.124 parameter to better control rate limiting, essentially improved socket creation, 00:22:59.264 --> 00:23:00.344 a bunch of nice improvements. 00:23:00.604 --> 00:23:04.944 At the beginning of the year, I guess some users were playing around enabling 00:23:04.944 --> 00:23:08.244 this thing on TrueNAS now that that's, you know, Linux under the hood. 00:23:08.564 --> 00:23:12.504 And they were seeing some pretty impressive improvements specifically for on 00:23:12.504 --> 00:23:16.864 the right side, also for latency in terms of just like if you're doing like 00:23:16.864 --> 00:23:20.944 a lot of small operations on files or a lot of metadata, file creation, that kind of thing. 00:23:21.744 --> 00:23:26.504 And I guess it was adopted by OpenWRT. So there are some sort of embedded use cases. 00:23:26.504 --> 00:23:29.664 Another aspect ksmbd has is 00:23:29.664 --> 00:23:33.484 um smb direct which is essentially rdma and 00:23:33.484 --> 00:23:38.104 so you can set it up between linux and like two linux boxes say on a trusted 00:23:38.104 --> 00:23:43.504 network with ksmbd enabled you don't have to bother the cpu to to offload from 00:23:43.504 --> 00:23:49.924 memory over the network at super fast line rate so there are some places where maybe it makes sense. 00:23:49.924 --> 00:23:54.384 I guess so um i guess what it says to me is that it sounds like we have a major 00:23:54.384 --> 00:23:56.724 bottleneck issue on Linux for things that have to run in user space. 00:23:57.224 --> 00:24:00.304 And if there's such a performance difference between running in kernel versus 00:24:00.304 --> 00:24:04.704 running in user space talking to the kernel, perhaps we should address whatever that issue is. 00:24:04.844 --> 00:24:08.424 But then the other thing that strikes me is it's kind of not apples and oranges 00:24:08.424 --> 00:24:13.604 comparison because if you first looked at WireGuard when it first shipped and 00:24:13.604 --> 00:24:17.524 you compared WireGuard to the Go user space versions of WireGuard, 00:24:17.744 --> 00:24:19.724 WireGuard in the kernel was... 00:24:20.721 --> 00:24:24.821 Way faster and way more performant. But then over the years, 00:24:25.221 --> 00:24:29.981 operations like Tailscale and others worked at optimizing the user space binaries. 00:24:30.161 --> 00:24:33.761 And now the performance is very comparable and in some use cases, 00:24:34.001 --> 00:24:35.121 better in the user space version. 00:24:35.321 --> 00:24:38.141 But they're comparing it against a version where they haven't really optimized 00:24:38.141 --> 00:24:43.041 for that situation to a hyper optimized version in the kernel that's like a 00:24:43.041 --> 00:24:45.341 slim down version of Samba that doesn't feature everything. 00:24:45.741 --> 00:24:48.501 It is, you're right. It definitely doesn't feature everything. 00:24:48.661 --> 00:24:49.681 Like it doesn't do a lot of the 00:24:49.681 --> 00:24:52.641 active directory stuff. so it's not really suitable for that kind of role. 00:24:53.241 --> 00:24:57.321 Interestingly, I think they were already working on it, but when KSMED came 00:24:57.321 --> 00:25:01.221 out, Samba actually went ahead and implemented a bunch of, like the user, 00:25:01.421 --> 00:25:05.921 the regular Samba distribution, implemented a bunch of work to take on IOU ring. 00:25:06.121 --> 00:25:08.461 So there are cases where, like in some of that early testing. 00:25:08.581 --> 00:25:09.581 See, now that makes sense to me, though. 00:25:09.641 --> 00:25:11.361 Yeah, they were getting like 10x throughput. 00:25:11.561 --> 00:25:15.221 Because that's a generic facility provided by the kernel for these types of things. 00:25:15.961 --> 00:25:21.061 That seems like the better route to go than just shoehorning in a Samba server 00:25:21.061 --> 00:25:22.141 because Samsung wants it. 00:25:24.230 --> 00:25:28.870 I mean, again, there are some limitations in terms of just, you know, 00:25:29.050 --> 00:25:31.010 overhead as well as like you're probably not. 00:25:31.190 --> 00:25:36.250 There are just some shorter paths available and less context switching. If you do. 00:25:36.370 --> 00:25:39.730 For sure. Yeah. So why not put Firefox in the kernel? Really? 00:25:40.050 --> 00:25:44.350 Why don't we put NFS in the kernel? Should we put FTP in the kernel? 00:25:44.930 --> 00:25:46.050 Yes, probably. Yeah. 00:25:46.150 --> 00:25:50.070 Like, I mean, where do we draw the line? Because, yes, obviously putting things 00:25:50.070 --> 00:25:53.630 in the kernel makes them a little bit faster, especially when it comes to using 00:25:53.630 --> 00:25:54.950 subsystems like disk and network. 00:25:55.310 --> 00:25:58.750 But you could say that about everything. Like, why not put Hyperland in the 00:25:58.750 --> 00:26:02.050 kernel? Let's put Wayland in the kernel. Let's put effing everything in the kernel. 00:26:02.370 --> 00:26:05.970 I mean, hell, let's do it. Let's see what happens because I don't see the logic. 00:26:06.930 --> 00:26:11.490 Okay. So you're already on this side. But this year also saw. 00:26:11.650 --> 00:26:14.610 And so this is where I think I do have some questions. So there's one narrative 00:26:14.610 --> 00:26:19.110 here that says all of the reasons that we thought this architecture was a bad 00:26:19.110 --> 00:26:21.350 idea in 2021 are kind of playing out here. 00:26:21.770 --> 00:26:23.010 Who could have seen this coming? 00:26:23.130 --> 00:26:27.870 Yeah. But I mentioned there was like 194 commits. 91 of those are from Steven 00:26:27.870 --> 00:26:32.470 Metzmacher, who's a longtime Samba dev who was working in the kernel before 00:26:32.470 --> 00:26:36.790 this, but including doing some of the work to get the IOU ring support. 00:26:36.790 --> 00:26:41.970 But it seems like the Samba world has sort of accepted that this is there. 00:26:42.190 --> 00:26:46.530 And I'm wondering if we're seeing this flurry of activity, does that also maybe 00:26:46.530 --> 00:26:49.790 mean that there's enough folks that are finding it valuable that it makes sense 00:26:49.790 --> 00:26:52.670 to invest in making this more secure and robust? 00:26:52.850 --> 00:26:57.710 It's like at the beginning of the year, the security firm, Doyensec, 00:26:57.850 --> 00:27:00.290 announced that they were going to start looking into KSMBD. 00:27:00.290 --> 00:27:03.970 And then just now like in October they've been doing some more write-ups and 00:27:03.970 --> 00:27:08.990 they actually produced a really nice well the GitHub linked for one of the CVEs 00:27:08.990 --> 00:27:12.410 this year like a really nice reproducer with all the code open even a little 00:27:12.410 --> 00:27:15.490 script to run a QEM UVM for you to like start running, 00:27:16.130 --> 00:27:18.610 it wow yeah, 00:27:20.560 --> 00:27:24.860 So that sort of says, okay, one version is just we want to show how bad this 00:27:24.860 --> 00:27:25.660 is and it's a terrible idea. 00:27:25.800 --> 00:27:28.720 Another version is folks are using this. We should make it robust. 00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:33.180 And maybe now we're in a place where it can be more robust and sufficiently 00:27:33.180 --> 00:27:36.120 tested to not be a horrible hole. 00:27:36.160 --> 00:27:41.260 I think there's a detail in there. And that detail is they've built it and it is faster. 00:27:42.020 --> 00:27:45.200 So, of course, we're going to use it. Right? That's the thing. 00:27:45.300 --> 00:27:47.920 If you do this, it's going to end up having users. 00:27:48.500 --> 00:27:50.360 And then we're going to have to keep it. 00:27:51.500 --> 00:27:55.300 That's why you don't build it and put it in the kernel in the first place, because it is faster. 00:27:55.800 --> 00:28:00.620 It is better for things like small arm devices, routers, things like that, obviously. 00:28:01.500 --> 00:28:06.260 And of course, vendors want to be able to sell you a plastic box that does Wi-Fi 00:28:06.260 --> 00:28:08.420 and has a USB port on it so you can have a NAS. 00:28:09.500 --> 00:28:09.880 Yeah. 00:28:10.020 --> 00:28:13.480 And so for that, we all have to walk around with a kernel that has Samba, 00:28:13.640 --> 00:28:15.380 unless your distro provider takes it out. 00:28:16.220 --> 00:28:18.720 Now, I think if they hadn't built it, we wouldn't be, I mean, 00:28:18.880 --> 00:28:23.100 this, of course, like, why not put, I mean, again, I go back to this, 00:28:23.160 --> 00:28:26.120 but if we put cups, again, if we put cups in the kernel, it would be faster. 00:28:26.260 --> 00:28:30.580 And what would happen over time, it would take a few years, is more people would start using it. 00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:33.880 And then the question becomes, well, what happens to traditional cups? 00:28:34.900 --> 00:28:38.600 Samba is a project that has a 20 plus year massive legacy. 00:28:40.084 --> 00:28:43.124 And I think they're probably safe because of the complicated nature of a lot 00:28:43.124 --> 00:28:46.304 of Samba setups and the features that they need. 00:28:46.824 --> 00:28:52.024 But if you put something else in the kernel like this, it would probably cannibalize the main project. 00:28:53.044 --> 00:28:59.044 So just for a little more flavor as well, you may remember, but earlier this 00:28:59.044 --> 00:29:02.684 year, there was a Linux kernel zero day discovered using chat GPT. 00:29:03.384 --> 00:29:04.144 Yeah, right. 00:29:04.324 --> 00:29:06.044 That was for KSMBD. 00:29:06.264 --> 00:29:08.564 Oh, my. Really? Of course. That's that. Of course. 00:29:08.564 --> 00:29:11.504 There was also, there was a couple of remote takeover bugs where you did have 00:29:11.504 --> 00:29:15.024 to be, you did have to have valid user credentials, but like when you were signing 00:29:15.024 --> 00:29:18.464 off, you could trigger a race condition that lets you run arbitrary code in the kernel. 00:29:19.144 --> 00:29:22.364 There was a very easy denial of service bug, so it's a little less, 00:29:22.644 --> 00:29:27.164 you know, it's not taking over your box, but it is taking you off the network 00:29:27.164 --> 00:29:33.704 called KSMBD drain or KSMB drain, say that five times, which was a trivial, 00:29:33.964 --> 00:29:34.964 unauthenticated attack. 00:29:34.964 --> 00:29:39.664 You basically just did the start of a TCP conversation and then just disappeared. 00:29:40.244 --> 00:29:42.964 And the kernel would never free the resources that it set up, 00:29:42.964 --> 00:29:45.484 assuming you were trying to talk to its KSMBD Samba server. 00:29:45.584 --> 00:29:46.104 That's a good one. 00:29:46.324 --> 00:29:49.224 And of course, because it's in the kernel, you don't have the normal sort of 00:29:49.224 --> 00:29:54.124 out-of-memory or special handling, right? That's kernel memory that it gets to eat up there. 00:29:54.304 --> 00:29:58.424 Yeah, your user space, out-of-memory killers, not doing anything about that. 00:29:58.424 --> 00:30:02.724 And then probably the worst was this one that DoyenSec found this really great reproducer for, 00:30:03.284 --> 00:30:09.564 which would be 37947, which got a 10 on the CVSS score because it allowed a 00:30:09.564 --> 00:30:14.964 regular authenticated user with simple file write access to reliably and deterministically 00:30:14.964 --> 00:30:16.564 without needing to win a race condition, 00:30:16.724 --> 00:30:20.864 bypass all the modern kernel stuff, KSLR, all that, and become root. 00:30:23.524 --> 00:30:28.204 So it is also i think as folks in the uh in our matrix rumors suggesting if 00:30:28.204 --> 00:30:30.704 you are if i think you're right if you put this in there people are going to 00:30:30.704 --> 00:30:33.344 use it and if you're going to use it there's going to be problems so probably 00:30:33.344 --> 00:30:38.504 this is this isn't really screaming out for rustification if anything in the kernel it's right yeah. 00:30:38.504 --> 00:30:40.984 Maybe maybe you know all i have to say about it, 00:30:50.493 --> 00:30:53.653 Well, thank you. That was quite cathartic. I appreciate that, 00:30:53.773 --> 00:30:55.433 Wes. That was a nice holiday gift you gave me. 00:30:55.493 --> 00:30:59.453 You know, I picked that topic actually hoping that the story was going to go the other way. 00:30:59.553 --> 00:30:59.653 Really? 00:30:59.653 --> 00:31:04.733 And I would get to have a, like, look at how great KSMD is doing. But, you know. 00:31:05.133 --> 00:31:09.153 Oh, that's so good. Well, Brentley, you know, one of the things that we've talked 00:31:09.153 --> 00:31:12.713 on and off over the years, that's been years now, if you guys can believe it, 00:31:12.853 --> 00:31:14.573 is our adventures with Graphene OS. 00:31:14.753 --> 00:31:18.893 We're still rocking Pixel 7s all around with the Graphene OS on there, 00:31:18.913 --> 00:31:20.293 which just recently got a new update. 00:31:20.873 --> 00:31:22.973 Yeah, things are bolder, it seems. 00:31:24.073 --> 00:31:29.093 Yeah, I like it. At first, I didn't like it because my lock screen UI changed. 00:31:30.313 --> 00:31:31.273 My clock changed. 00:31:31.973 --> 00:31:33.753 It feels snappier to me. 00:31:33.913 --> 00:31:34.133 Yeah. 00:31:34.693 --> 00:31:35.853 Like consistently snappier. 00:31:35.973 --> 00:31:38.393 And there's a couple of nights I forgot to put it on the charger, 00:31:38.393 --> 00:31:40.713 and I got it, and it was like 10% less. 00:31:41.133 --> 00:31:41.913 That's nice, too. 00:31:42.233 --> 00:31:46.933 And that's with radios on and stuff. I'm feeling really good about it, 00:31:47.013 --> 00:31:50.273 but Graphene OS has had some challenges recently, And I think that's Brent's 00:31:50.273 --> 00:31:51.373 holiday leftovers for us. 00:31:51.853 --> 00:31:56.053 Oh, yeah. Not the nice news maybe you want to hear. 00:31:56.213 --> 00:32:01.333 But this week, Graphene OS basically withdrew from France, like the entire country. 00:32:01.473 --> 00:32:03.593 They were hosting some things over at OVH. 00:32:04.393 --> 00:32:11.433 But French law enforcements basically continue to target encrypted communications in the country. 00:32:11.433 --> 00:32:20.013 And the first time the authorities have directly threatened an open source project. 00:32:20.013 --> 00:32:24.133 So this is kind of big news for, I think, open source in general, 00:32:24.333 --> 00:32:28.353 if it has to do with encryption protocols, 00:32:28.753 --> 00:32:34.453 which previously they have basically targeted businesses who are doing encrypted 00:32:34.453 --> 00:32:36.733 communications and targeting criminals specifically. 00:32:36.733 --> 00:32:41.853 But this is just an open source project generally. So the French authorities 00:32:41.853 --> 00:32:47.393 have sent an internal message to police forces labeling all Google Pixel phones 00:32:47.393 --> 00:32:49.813 with Graphene OS as inherently suspicious. 00:32:50.413 --> 00:32:52.473 Oh, what? 00:32:52.833 --> 00:32:54.313 Not what you want to see. 00:32:55.463 --> 00:32:57.323 I've got to take my iPhone to France now. 00:32:57.443 --> 00:32:58.623 Wait a minute. You have an iPhone? 00:32:58.783 --> 00:32:59.043 No. 00:33:00.303 --> 00:33:01.103 I'll have to borrow yours. 00:33:01.183 --> 00:33:02.503 I was going to borrow yours. 00:33:04.323 --> 00:33:05.443 I'm sure I've got a couple. 00:33:05.683 --> 00:33:05.763 Yeah. 00:33:06.523 --> 00:33:10.903 So this week, French media outlet La Parisienne published articles characterizing 00:33:10.903 --> 00:33:13.603 graphene OS as a tool enabling criminal activity. 00:33:13.703 --> 00:33:19.683 And that kind of kicked off all of this suspicion and sort of looking into the 00:33:19.683 --> 00:33:20.963 project a little closer. 00:33:20.963 --> 00:33:24.183 Um so french cybercrime 00:33:24.183 --> 00:33:27.163 prosecutor johanna bros stated that 00:33:27.163 --> 00:33:30.163 authorities would basically pursue legal action against platforms of 00:33:30.163 --> 00:33:33.743 criminal organization ties if they refuse cooperation 00:33:33.743 --> 00:33:36.943 that was the quote yeah and 00:33:36.943 --> 00:33:40.303 this what stands out here for me is that refuse cooperation 00:33:40.303 --> 00:33:43.703 i think they're trying to 00:33:43.703 --> 00:33:46.603 get information on criminal and organizations that are 00:33:46.603 --> 00:33:50.003 using some of these platforms and considering 00:33:50.003 --> 00:33:52.843 you know graphene os has a pretty 00:33:52.843 --> 00:33:56.923 strong stand on not doing that um there's 00:33:56.923 --> 00:34:02.443 suspicion that this is basically an ask for a backdoor uh which makes you wonder 00:34:02.443 --> 00:34:07.763 which other encrypted services that are way more popular than graphene os actually 00:34:07.763 --> 00:34:13.023 said yes because uh if they're going after a little project like this then um 00:34:13.023 --> 00:34:16.023 i don't know you got to start to question things I. 00:34:16.023 --> 00:34:20.863 Got bits and pieces from the project it sounded like they also the government 00:34:20.863 --> 00:34:23.843 might have worked in coordination with some friendly media over there. 00:34:23.843 --> 00:34:24.843 To write. 00:34:24.843 --> 00:34:28.983 Some bad headlines about thieves using graphene OS kind of at just the right time, 00:34:29.603 --> 00:34:34.023 or criminals I don't know about thieves but criminals um kind of coordinated 00:34:34.023 --> 00:34:38.723 there and so they commented a little bit on that and how how just really they 00:34:38.723 --> 00:34:40.123 disappointed they were in the media coverage, 00:34:41.229 --> 00:34:45.909 Just take a moment to appreciate they had to migrate all of their infrastructure on OVH quickly. 00:34:46.369 --> 00:34:48.349 Yeah, that sucks. That's no one's idea. 00:34:48.429 --> 00:34:49.869 You know it's serious if you're... 00:34:49.869 --> 00:34:52.669 And it takes away from more work just on the actual project task. 00:34:52.769 --> 00:34:56.229 That's just the thing, right? Is you know it's serious if they had to hit pause 00:34:56.229 --> 00:34:57.789 on the project work to do this migration. 00:34:58.329 --> 00:35:01.909 It looks like most of their communication, so Macedon, Discourse, 00:35:01.909 --> 00:35:04.429 and Matrix servers are moved to Toronto. 00:35:04.809 --> 00:35:10.089 So over here in Canada. So good to know that my old dear country is a little trusted. 00:35:10.189 --> 00:35:10.849 But not French Canada, I notice. 00:35:10.849 --> 00:35:12.349 Yeah, not the French part of Canada. 00:35:12.349 --> 00:35:16.449 It's near French Canada. Close, but not too close. 00:35:17.029 --> 00:35:21.189 So maybe not a bad time to consider like a little extra donation to giraffe. 00:35:21.309 --> 00:35:21.589 That is. 00:35:21.789 --> 00:35:22.529 If you're a partial. 00:35:22.709 --> 00:35:27.189 A great point. They also moved a couple other things. Website infrastructure is now in Germany. 00:35:27.849 --> 00:35:31.869 DNS services, it looks like they've migrated to Vulture and by VM. 00:35:32.209 --> 00:35:36.789 And it looks here like cryptographic credentials. They're rotating it based 00:35:36.789 --> 00:35:38.429 on just a security progression. 00:35:39.169 --> 00:35:43.169 So some interesting maybe changes in how they run some of the infrastructure 00:35:43.169 --> 00:35:45.249 as well to avoid this kind of thing in the future. 00:35:45.929 --> 00:35:51.289 They did confirm that there were no credentials from user data or critical security 00:35:51.289 --> 00:35:53.309 infrastructure that was stored in France. 00:35:54.089 --> 00:35:57.649 So most of the core security features are basically unaffected. 00:35:57.869 --> 00:35:58.809 Thank goodness, really. 00:35:59.229 --> 00:36:01.689 Yeah, it sounds like an abundance of caution on some of this stuff, 00:36:01.849 --> 00:36:03.269 but I mean, that's sort of the game. 00:36:03.269 --> 00:36:05.889 Which is what you'd expect from the project, yeah. And we're grateful for it. 00:36:05.969 --> 00:36:09.129 Yeah, very much so. So it is interesting to see them have to kind of implement 00:36:09.129 --> 00:36:12.509 an action plan here to see what they have to do in the face of some pressure. 00:36:12.629 --> 00:36:15.489 And I think we'd probably all three agree. It seems like they're making the 00:36:15.489 --> 00:36:17.469 right moves, hard moves, but the right moves here. 00:36:18.432 --> 00:36:21.712 Yeah, this got me thinking of a couple of topics. 00:36:22.452 --> 00:36:26.992 One is, you know, if you remember Telegram founder Pavel Durov, 00:36:27.172 --> 00:36:30.392 he was arrested in France as well. Was that a couple of years ago, 2024? 00:36:31.992 --> 00:36:33.192 So that was maybe. 00:36:33.312 --> 00:36:33.792 That's still ongoing. 00:36:34.252 --> 00:36:37.212 Yeah, it was maybe a hint of what was going to come. 00:36:37.532 --> 00:36:43.912 And I'm not up on that situation, but I remember that feeling like a red flag. 00:36:44.712 --> 00:36:49.092 And okay, that's Telegram, but now we've got a huge red flag for open source projects as well. 00:36:49.372 --> 00:36:55.912 It also seems like chat control in Europe is moving forward in a way that is 00:36:55.912 --> 00:36:57.592 following these kind of themes. 00:36:58.232 --> 00:37:01.812 So I know we're talking about France currently, but there are a bunch of other 00:37:01.812 --> 00:37:08.132 countries who are trying to push these kind of eyes into encrypted communications 00:37:08.132 --> 00:37:11.032 a little bit more. So it makes me a little... 00:37:12.219 --> 00:37:17.519 Somber thinking about some of these freedoms especially in a place that is known 00:37:17.519 --> 00:37:22.819 for having a little bit more encouragement towards freedoms and freedom of choice 00:37:22.819 --> 00:37:27.879 and all that to be pushing in this direction doesn't make you boy sad because 00:37:27.879 --> 00:37:30.699 uh geez it feels like graphene has had many, 00:37:31.459 --> 00:37:35.919 different types of challenges in the last few months we see this for sure and 00:37:35.919 --> 00:37:40.359 also you know of the changes to the Android open source releases for them. 00:37:40.499 --> 00:37:46.399 So they got both technical challenges and some, you know, governmental social challenges here too. 00:37:47.339 --> 00:37:55.299 Indeed. I think it might be open source that has the line of defense on these 00:37:55.299 --> 00:37:57.279 backdoor legislations. 00:37:57.479 --> 00:38:01.659 I don't see how you effectively mandate it into free software that's made all 00:38:01.659 --> 00:38:05.779 around the world. and developers that get coerced. 00:38:05.999 --> 00:38:10.479 I mean, this isn't legal advice, but you have to wonder if some of them wouldn't 00:38:10.479 --> 00:38:12.319 consider a public resignation, 00:38:12.979 --> 00:38:17.679 and then get a VPN that just puts them in a different country and join the product 00:38:17.679 --> 00:38:22.499 under a new synonym or a new fake identity and, you know, call themselves America 00:38:22.499 --> 00:38:24.519 Joe or something and, you know. 00:38:24.839 --> 00:38:26.379 I think that's taken already. 00:38:26.639 --> 00:38:31.079 Bob the Builder, yeah. But you know what I, you know, There's really no way 00:38:31.079 --> 00:38:35.859 they can stop free software from being developed, and a lot of the people that 00:38:35.859 --> 00:38:39.139 build these tools, especially these privacy tools and free software and open source, 00:38:39.339 --> 00:38:43.759 are doing it from a path of advocacy and a source of passion, 00:38:43.819 --> 00:38:46.859 and they're not as likely to be swayed by this stuff. 00:38:46.939 --> 00:38:50.019 They'll just stop, and then over time, because they're compelled, 00:38:50.179 --> 00:38:51.319 they'll find a new way to contribute. 00:38:51.319 --> 00:38:56.179 And we have the power of cloning and forking and often, luckily, 00:38:57.099 --> 00:39:01.159 sizable and diverse communities all over the world and from different communities 00:39:01.159 --> 00:39:05.379 with different local laws or rules on the ground and expectations and cultures, 00:39:05.399 --> 00:39:07.619 which can be a benefit in times like this. 00:39:07.619 --> 00:39:10.499 I think there will be challenges for some developers. I mean, 00:39:10.539 --> 00:39:13.519 there's going to be some developers that really feel the pressure and the heat if this stuff proceeds. 00:39:14.281 --> 00:39:17.421 And I think that is going to be a challenging time for open source. 00:39:17.621 --> 00:39:21.941 But I think ultimately free software and open source are able to respond to 00:39:21.941 --> 00:39:25.541 this threat in a way that commercial software simply is unable to. 00:39:25.721 --> 00:39:28.261 Their legal structure as a business is going to force them to comply. 00:39:28.541 --> 00:39:32.581 Yeah, it's a very different thing if they come knocking on your door and you 00:39:32.581 --> 00:39:35.421 have a legal entity that makes it very easy for them to demand compliance. 00:39:35.581 --> 00:39:38.601 And Graphene OS is trying to hold that line right here. We see it happening in real time. 00:39:39.381 --> 00:39:42.101 And I'm really grateful for the hard work they're putting in to make that happen. 00:39:42.101 --> 00:39:45.241 And I've made this point before on the show, but the people that know about 00:39:45.241 --> 00:39:48.061 these tools and know about free software versus people that just grab whatever 00:39:48.061 --> 00:39:49.681 commercial app their friends link them, 00:39:50.744 --> 00:39:54.104 There's going to be a big delta between the people that have privacy and the people that don't. 00:39:54.264 --> 00:39:55.044 Yeah, two different worlds. 00:39:55.204 --> 00:40:02.404 But I was kind of happy to see that the speculation consensus is coming to a 00:40:02.404 --> 00:40:05.884 perhaps hardware vendor for 00:40:05.884 --> 00:40:08.804 GrapheneOS's new project. So they're looking for devices beyond pixels. 00:40:09.104 --> 00:40:13.364 They have reportedly been working with a hardware vendor, a quote unquote major 00:40:13.364 --> 00:40:18.484 hardware vendor, that would be updating their hardware to meet the security 00:40:18.484 --> 00:40:22.244 requirements of the GrapheneOS project. including like the secure enclave type stuff. 00:40:22.844 --> 00:40:26.964 And there's been a lot of speculation. OnePlus was thrown out there, 00:40:27.064 --> 00:40:31.184 but all of them have kind of been knocked down by various members of the project 00:40:31.184 --> 00:40:34.604 except for my original dream. 00:40:34.744 --> 00:40:36.704 And I thought this was impossible. 00:40:38.404 --> 00:40:42.084 But the community consensus, if there was a poly market for this, 00:40:43.004 --> 00:40:44.524 Motorola would be in the win right now. 00:40:44.764 --> 00:40:45.084 Oh. 00:40:45.984 --> 00:40:46.464 Motorola. 00:40:46.764 --> 00:40:48.324 That would be great. 00:40:48.324 --> 00:40:52.124 I would love a Motorola phone again. I used to love my Motorola devices. 00:40:52.684 --> 00:40:56.484 And it's because of all the requirements. It's kind of everything from timeline 00:40:56.484 --> 00:41:00.244 to price to the fact that they also said the vendor makes a tablet that's already in the market. 00:41:01.084 --> 00:41:05.564 Just all of these different kind of things that line up with pointing at Motorola. 00:41:06.424 --> 00:41:10.304 And the takeaway being that potentially there could be a Graphene OS device, 00:41:10.564 --> 00:41:14.664 a dedicated hardware made Motorola device that you buy that comes with Graphene 00:41:14.664 --> 00:41:17.124 OS on it or you flash with Graphene OS on it, whatever it might be. 00:41:17.924 --> 00:41:22.344 Oh boy I would love to see that Motorola makes some great phones. 00:41:23.542 --> 00:41:28.382 Aren't you saying Chris was right? I feel like you're kind of rubbing that in our face here again. 00:41:28.642 --> 00:41:31.862 No, no, no, because this is just speculation. You don't know. 00:41:32.022 --> 00:41:33.722 Ah, so the jingle must wait. 00:41:34.722 --> 00:41:40.902 I'd be curious. So we know it's not OnePlus. We've eliminated the Fairphone. 00:41:41.622 --> 00:41:45.362 I thought there was a third phone we eliminated from the lineup, 00:41:45.542 --> 00:41:48.162 too, recently in the members' feed, but I can't remember what it was. 00:41:48.282 --> 00:41:49.902 I think it was Samsung devices. 00:41:50.922 --> 00:41:53.762 Yeah, we ruled those out. I mean 00:41:53.762 --> 00:41:58.682 it could be and I'd be curious if listeners you have a wish cast of who the 00:41:58.682 --> 00:42:03.102 hardware vendor would be that you can either buy or easily flash Graphene OS 00:42:03.102 --> 00:42:06.262 on if you could get an OEM phone something you could buy yourself or recommend 00:42:06.262 --> 00:42:09.722 to friends and family too because oh boy wouldn't that be a game changer that 00:42:09.722 --> 00:42:12.382 would be you could just tell easy answer yes, 00:42:12.882 --> 00:42:15.622 so who would be who would be your hardware vendor of choice. 00:42:15.622 --> 00:42:16.382 I feel like. 00:42:16.382 --> 00:42:17.002 Jeff says. 00:42:17.002 --> 00:42:19.682 Sony Sony he's been saying that for years right Jeff. 00:42:20.282 --> 00:42:22.502 Maybe boost in and tell us who you'd 00:42:22.502 --> 00:42:25.582 like to see as a hardware vendor for GrapheneOS. I'm saying Motorola. 00:42:28.705 --> 00:42:34.225 1password.com slash unplugged. That's the number 1password and then unplugged 00:42:34.225 --> 00:42:35.485 and that's all lowercase. 00:42:35.725 --> 00:42:39.285 Go take the first steps to better security for your team by securing credentials 00:42:39.285 --> 00:42:43.585 and protecting every application, even the unmanaged one. So go learn more. 00:42:43.705 --> 00:42:46.505 You need to go to 1password.com slash unplugged. 00:42:46.725 --> 00:42:49.565 This is a real challenge. There's a lot of assets to manage. 00:42:49.685 --> 00:42:53.945 I mean, you have hardware, all the different devices from mobile to desktop to laptops and more. 00:42:54.445 --> 00:42:57.865 But there's also identities, of course, and there's applications. 00:42:58.105 --> 00:42:59.405 And there's more and more of 00:42:59.405 --> 00:43:02.265 those all the time that just spin up that you might not even know about. 00:43:02.565 --> 00:43:06.645 It's a lot. It creates a mountain of security risk. And you can conquer that 00:43:06.645 --> 00:43:11.085 mountain of security risk with 1 Password Extended Access Management. 00:43:11.405 --> 00:43:15.085 It's a big problem. Lots of people report this is their biggest challenge in 00:43:15.085 --> 00:43:19.785 IT, just a SaaS sprawl, you could say, which creates shadow IT, 00:43:20.085 --> 00:43:22.925 accounts, services you might not even know your users are using. 00:43:23.285 --> 00:43:26.125 And it's not hard to see why the users get more work done. 00:43:27.089 --> 00:43:34.349 I remember this when both Dropbox and Slack rolled out. It was a big user-up 00:43:34.349 --> 00:43:38.629 adoption, and it created friction between IT and the users. 00:43:38.829 --> 00:43:42.929 That's something that 1Password Extended Access Management really smooths out. 00:43:43.089 --> 00:43:46.269 And one of the ways you are empowered is with Trelica. 00:43:46.869 --> 00:43:51.949 Trelica by 1Password can discover and secure all your apps, managed or not. 00:43:52.129 --> 00:43:56.669 That means you're going to get an inventory of every app in use at your company. 00:43:57.089 --> 00:44:01.469 Trelica has pre-populated app profiles, so you can get an idea of the SaaS risks. 00:44:01.629 --> 00:44:05.649 You can get an idea of who has access to what if there's redundancies. 00:44:06.369 --> 00:44:10.249 You can really optimize your spend with tools like that, but probably most importantly, 00:44:10.409 --> 00:44:13.569 you can enforce best security practices across every app your employees use. 00:44:14.009 --> 00:44:19.569 You can actually manage the shadow IT. 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It's powerful and it gives you a complete 00:44:47.609 --> 00:44:50.889 oversight of the sprawling landscape of SaaS apps. 00:44:51.049 --> 00:44:54.949 Whether your company knows about them or not, that's a big deal. 00:44:55.069 --> 00:44:59.409 Go learn more. Support the show. Go to the number onepassword.com slash unplugged. 00:44:59.469 --> 00:45:03.089 That's onepassword.com slash unplugged. 00:45:03.289 --> 00:45:07.949 You're going to change the way you look at managing IT, and it's a great way to support the show. 00:45:08.149 --> 00:45:11.909 Go take the first steps to better security for your team by securing credentials 00:45:11.909 --> 00:45:16.289 and protecting every application, even the unmanaged shadow IT. 00:45:17.209 --> 00:45:22.389 Onepassword.com slash unplugged. That's onepassword.com slash unplugged. 00:45:26.213 --> 00:45:30.693 Well, I'd like to continue on the theme of sort of a bumpy year for the colonel, 00:45:30.833 --> 00:45:34.433 because I feel like there's a lot more than what you've been talking about so 00:45:34.433 --> 00:45:36.873 far in this episode. What do you got here, Chris? 00:45:37.533 --> 00:45:39.813 I guess it kind of has been a bit of a grab bag year, right? 00:45:39.893 --> 00:45:42.113 Because we've gotten a lot of nice releases, a couple of bangers, 00:45:42.213 --> 00:45:44.173 and there's some in the works right now. 00:45:45.113 --> 00:45:50.973 But I was reviewing the members version of the show to look for stories that 00:45:50.973 --> 00:45:55.433 we should probably catch the main show up on. because a lot of times we'll cover 00:45:55.433 --> 00:45:58.193 a story to see before we really know if it's fully developed. 00:45:58.433 --> 00:46:02.013 We'll start tracking it in the bootleg version of the show for the members. 00:46:02.153 --> 00:46:04.753 And then when it kind of develops, we'll bring it into the show. 00:46:04.833 --> 00:46:07.253 But we just really haven't had a time to catch up on this stuff. 00:46:07.813 --> 00:46:12.033 So I want to go back in time a piece to episode 590, gentlemen. 00:46:15.953 --> 00:46:22.033 And this is where we started seeing potentially some issues with BcacheFS in the kernel. 00:46:22.233 --> 00:46:25.553 And this is actually the first flare-up Before where we're at now, 00:46:25.773 --> 00:46:30.293 there was a code of conduct situation because the S-word was used. 00:46:30.573 --> 00:46:35.893 All right. Well, while we got spicy Wes, it looks like that Kent Overstreet, 00:46:35.993 --> 00:46:40.073 the lead developer of BcacheFS, is facing repercussions for violating the Linux 00:46:40.073 --> 00:46:43.713 kernel's code of conduct, as determined by the Code of Conduct Committee. 00:46:44.093 --> 00:46:47.873 And committees reviewed some communications that involved Kent and another individual. 00:46:48.593 --> 00:46:52.693 And as a result, their determination is that they're rejecting his poll requests 00:46:52.693 --> 00:46:56.053 for BcacheFS for the Linux 6.13 development cycle. 00:46:56.413 --> 00:47:00.373 I think really, right, it's any. He just can't be part of 6.13, basically. Yeah. 00:47:01.013 --> 00:47:04.453 The decision does not remove BcacheFS from the mainline kernel or preclude future 00:47:04.453 --> 00:47:09.453 submissions, but leaves the acceptance of his work for 6.14 and beyond uncertain for now. 00:47:09.973 --> 00:47:13.513 Overstreet acknowledged the issue and issued a partial apology for the incident. 00:47:13.633 --> 00:47:17.873 I don't know about partial. so I think it's a dispute of the apology was done 00:47:17.873 --> 00:47:22.613 in private and the COC wants the apology done in public well and I think there's also Kent is, 00:47:23.768 --> 00:47:28.088 It seems like he's intentionally not doing so because he'd like to raise, 00:47:28.268 --> 00:47:29.608 make it into a larger conversation. 00:47:30.008 --> 00:47:35.188 And that ultimately was resolved and his patches were resumed being accepted to the Linux kernel. 00:47:35.908 --> 00:47:40.068 And then while we were, I think, in Austin, we were, I think we were in Texas. 00:47:40.088 --> 00:47:41.268 So we might sound a little different. 00:47:41.908 --> 00:47:45.148 Yeah, most of the time major stuff goes down while we're on the road. 00:47:45.368 --> 00:47:47.648 Yeah, actually, it's true. I was looking at the clips. So we're in the, 00:47:47.788 --> 00:47:49.428 so this is to kind of set the context. 00:47:49.588 --> 00:47:51.988 This is the pre-show before we're going to actually record the main show from 00:47:51.988 --> 00:47:56.228 Austin. And we're kind of just finding the news out as we're setting up. 00:47:58.228 --> 00:48:02.388 Okay, Wes, this is the story I think that I've been the most disappointed to 00:48:02.388 --> 00:48:03.588 see while we've been on the road. 00:48:03.988 --> 00:48:06.688 And I know you've been following what's going on with BcacheFS. 00:48:07.228 --> 00:48:11.748 Last time we talked about BcacheFS, there was a back and forth between Linus 00:48:11.748 --> 00:48:15.928 and Kent because Kent was trying to add what you could consider to be a new 00:48:15.928 --> 00:48:18.548 feature during what should only be a bug fix merge window. 00:48:18.548 --> 00:48:22.168 There was a back and forth and an argument between Linus and Kent that just 00:48:22.168 --> 00:48:25.328 kind of ended and really went nowhere after that. 00:48:25.528 --> 00:48:30.428 And then we have a new story where it seemed positive at first because it seemed 00:48:30.428 --> 00:48:35.108 Linus was pulling in all of the patches, including that new disaster recovery 00:48:35.108 --> 00:48:39.188 tool, the Journal Rewind, into the 6.16 branch. 00:48:39.188 --> 00:48:45.028 But it sounds like maybe we have bad news, maybe as bad as it gets, 00:48:45.108 --> 00:48:49.768 actually, that Linus might not include bcashfs at all in Linux 6.17. 00:48:50.328 --> 00:48:52.388 So what are we missing? What's going on here? 00:48:53.288 --> 00:48:57.528 Nothing's final yet. We really don't know. In some sense, there's not much of 00:48:57.528 --> 00:48:59.828 a story beyond watching the 6.16 develop. 00:48:59.828 --> 00:49:03.828 There's been some even subsequent polls after this story came out. 00:49:03.828 --> 00:49:09.228 But as a follow-up to the discussion around the Journal Rewind, 00:49:10.081 --> 00:49:13.061 And there's some debate right there if you even want to call it a feature or 00:49:13.061 --> 00:49:15.761 not, but around the journal Rewind feature. 00:49:16.341 --> 00:49:20.781 And then I guess there's been going on some private maintainer mailing list 00:49:20.781 --> 00:49:24.941 threads that we don't get to see, where Linus and Kent have been having more 00:49:24.941 --> 00:49:28.881 discussions. And I think there's kind of, well, there's a lot going on as usual. 00:49:29.041 --> 00:49:33.021 I think from Kent's perspective, part of it is like he sees a slightly different 00:49:33.021 --> 00:49:37.481 definition of what counts as a feature or not for file systems in particular 00:49:37.481 --> 00:49:41.841 in this case, because it was, it wasn't like adding some new thing the file system can do. 00:49:42.461 --> 00:49:46.621 So it wasn't a feature in that sense. It was more of a feature in terms of like the strict code sense. 00:49:46.761 --> 00:49:50.921 But this was entirely targeted around some like recovery stuff to try and get 00:49:50.921 --> 00:49:54.961 users data back as quickly as possible by putting it into the RC instead of 00:49:54.961 --> 00:49:58.621 waiting another three months to get it in the next kernel. 00:49:59.301 --> 00:50:03.361 So it's sort of the letter of the law versus the spirit of the law. 00:50:03.561 --> 00:50:07.481 Like Kent was trying to go by the spirit of the law. Hey, this thing's an experimental file system. 00:50:07.481 --> 00:50:11.281 It's not a new feature of the file system but it's exposing that feature and 00:50:11.281 --> 00:50:14.861 it's for users that are in trouble right now and linus is saying yes but it's 00:50:14.861 --> 00:50:19.121 net new code you're not just fixing existing code this is net new code and that's 00:50:19.121 --> 00:50:21.621 not allowed so it's law versus spirit in a sense. 00:50:22.361 --> 00:50:26.561 Yes and you know can't was making the points which i think are true in and some 00:50:26.561 --> 00:50:31.001 other maintainers have agreed on that you know it's not like that kind of, 00:50:31.721 --> 00:50:34.681 concession or you know bend of the rules doesn't happen 00:50:34.681 --> 00:50:37.601 i think maybe a big part of the problem here right is 00:50:37.601 --> 00:50:40.521 that not sure kent appreciated the extent that 00:50:40.521 --> 00:50:43.521 he was kind of still under review and being tested in 00:50:43.521 --> 00:50:48.301 a sense to like how well can you play by the rules and i don't think maybe he 00:50:48.301 --> 00:50:53.501 appreciates the extent that like there has not been enough trust gained between 00:50:53.501 --> 00:50:57.901 the parties to be able to bend that rules right that happens like after the 00:50:57.901 --> 00:51:00.861 trust happens and there just hasn't been enough of that i think. 00:51:01.609 --> 00:51:06.029 And they're both kind of pretty frustrated, like, Kent is working really hard 00:51:06.029 --> 00:51:09.129 and trying to support users and frustrated that, like, you know, 00:51:09.209 --> 00:51:11.869 he's spending a ton of time not on feature development, but on, like, 00:51:12.409 --> 00:51:15.829 bug fixes and talking with people online and in Reddit threads and, 00:51:15.969 --> 00:51:19.989 you know, in IRC and all over the place trying to provide support and, 00:51:20.169 --> 00:51:22.629 you know, finish all of the edge cases. 00:51:22.629 --> 00:51:25.869 And so it's naturally frustrating when you feel opposed for that. 00:51:26.009 --> 00:51:30.949 And of course, Linus wants to not have BcashFS be a constant thorn in his side 00:51:30.949 --> 00:51:32.929 and distract him from maintaining the rest of the kernel. 00:51:33.209 --> 00:51:37.189 And you can kind of argue, like, are there elements maybe of things we've observed 00:51:37.189 --> 00:51:41.549 around maybe the larger maintainers not especially having a super strong focus 00:51:41.549 --> 00:51:44.909 on file systems? I think you could maybe make some arguments around there. 00:51:45.549 --> 00:51:48.569 And there's a debate maybe, which we've also had in the past, 00:51:48.689 --> 00:51:51.209 around was this upstreamed too soon? 00:51:51.209 --> 00:51:55.169 Also what's the definition of experimental so all of those things are being 00:51:55.169 --> 00:52:01.029 drug up in this and it's not really clear exactly where things are land but it does sound like. 00:52:02.589 --> 00:52:07.309 DKMS maybe some limited per distro kernel builds are possibilities in the future if, 00:52:08.280 --> 00:52:12.500 takes a stint out of the main line. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:52:12.740 --> 00:52:15.460 And I really, really hate to hear that it might go out of the main line. 00:52:15.580 --> 00:52:18.860 And I do want to underscore a point you quickly touched on. 00:52:20.220 --> 00:52:24.240 But I'll wait. Brent, what is your first reaction? Well, I'm trying to think 00:52:24.240 --> 00:52:29.100 of if this situation has ever happened before, like a project being included 00:52:29.100 --> 00:52:32.380 in the kernel and then within a year being removed again. 00:52:32.600 --> 00:52:35.900 I don't think that has occurred in the past. 00:52:36.460 --> 00:52:40.380 Can you guys think of anything? I tried to research it and I can't think of 00:52:40.380 --> 00:52:44.680 a single thing that has been added to the kernel with like, you know, 00:52:44.840 --> 00:52:48.480 oh, we think this is ready enough to be added to the kernel and then kind of 00:52:48.480 --> 00:52:49.900 backtracked from there. 00:52:50.060 --> 00:52:52.220 So this would be a unique situation. 00:52:52.860 --> 00:52:56.800 Yeah, you definitely see things deprecated maybe as they're no longer developed or supported. 00:52:56.880 --> 00:53:00.280 It's like it's been in the kernel for 20 years or 10 years and we'll take it 00:53:00.280 --> 00:53:01.740 out because no one's using it. Yeah. 00:53:02.180 --> 00:53:05.440 Yeah. And you see it more often with drivers too when a driver's broken. you'll 00:53:05.440 --> 00:53:08.140 see that and they won't include it in the next cycle for a bit while that 00:53:08.140 --> 00:53:10.780 driver's getting fixed yeah no i don't 00:53:10.780 --> 00:53:13.640 nothing comes to my mind no nothing like 00:53:13.640 --> 00:53:16.300 a nothing like a software thing like this like a 00:53:16.300 --> 00:53:19.140 wire guard or yeah you know and and 00:53:19.140 --> 00:53:21.880 so here's the thing that wes touched on that i just i want to 00:53:21.880 --> 00:53:24.560 focus on for a second because it is i think 00:53:24.560 --> 00:53:27.600 everybody knows my my main my main issue 00:53:27.600 --> 00:53:31.240 with all of this is the kernel developers are 00:53:31.240 --> 00:53:34.520 are great people but they live in 00:53:34.520 --> 00:53:39.960 their own world with their own uses and they don't appreciate how pathetically 00:53:39.960 --> 00:53:46.600 behind and non-competitive linux is with its default file systems if you go 00:53:46.600 --> 00:53:50.540 by the world of extended four which is the predominant file system that ships 00:53:50.540 --> 00:53:54.200 with most linux distributions including the big red hat distributions. 00:53:55.548 --> 00:54:00.528 It's a joke. Compared to NTFS or APFS, it's pathetic. 00:54:00.908 --> 00:54:04.348 And Apple, in particular, has managed to lap us. 00:54:04.488 --> 00:54:09.988 We've been talking about this for so long that they have now lapped us with this. 00:54:10.148 --> 00:54:15.548 And they have better file systems on their internet phone than we do on our supercomputers. 00:54:15.708 --> 00:54:20.388 And it's pathetic. And it makes Linux look old. 00:54:20.388 --> 00:54:24.748 And it's an entire ginormous, 00:54:25.088 --> 00:54:33.028 incredibly large sector of the tech industry is simply solving storage using 00:54:33.028 --> 00:54:34.988 all kinds of hacked together solutions 00:54:34.988 --> 00:54:39.208 because Linux doesn't solve this inherently at the platform level. 00:54:39.208 --> 00:54:45.908 And so we have to throw tens and tens of thousands of dollars at stupid boxes 00:54:45.908 --> 00:54:51.348 that run hacked together Linux kernels with patched up file systems to provide 00:54:51.348 --> 00:54:53.848 support that Linux should be able to offer out of the box. 00:54:53.968 --> 00:54:57.828 It's embarrassing and it's gone on way too long. 00:54:58.128 --> 00:55:02.148 And if this was a product made by a company, whoever's in charge of that company 00:55:02.148 --> 00:55:07.328 should have been fired over this because what pays the bills for Linux is the 00:55:07.328 --> 00:55:11.868 server software. It's not you using it on your laptop. It's not your Steam Deck. 00:55:12.388 --> 00:55:17.108 It's people running it in the servers. And this is an absolutely critical and 00:55:17.108 --> 00:55:20.508 necessary feature for a server platform. 00:55:21.088 --> 00:55:27.248 And the kernel developers do not get it. And ZFS ain't it, chief, because it is not GPL. 00:55:27.508 --> 00:55:30.948 I don't care how great it is. I don't care how mature it is. 00:55:31.208 --> 00:55:33.128 I don't care how wide the support is. 00:55:33.488 --> 00:55:35.508 It cannot be baked into the kernel. 00:55:36.446 --> 00:55:39.666 You have to have something that can be baked into the kernel or else the platform 00:55:39.666 --> 00:55:41.686 technically does not have the feature. 00:55:42.686 --> 00:55:46.766 And Bcache FS is it. Because we've all trashed the ButterFS brand, 00:55:46.886 --> 00:55:48.126 so it ain't going to be ButterFS. 00:55:49.186 --> 00:55:54.246 Bcache FS is it. I think that's something that's important to add here. 00:55:54.346 --> 00:55:57.406 There's just that there is that backdrop and it doesn't always get commented 00:55:57.406 --> 00:56:00.326 on, but I think Kent feels it, right? 00:56:00.466 --> 00:56:04.246 Like, Kent has a sense of urgency. Some of that may be his own self-pressure 00:56:04.246 --> 00:56:07.786 or pressure from users, like the kernel community is not obligated by that. 00:56:08.146 --> 00:56:12.446 But you can appreciate how Kent wants to push really hard on not losing data 00:56:12.446 --> 00:56:18.286 and helping users get data because we're living in a world where ButterFS just didn't get trusted. 00:56:18.466 --> 00:56:22.906 And so I can see how Kent maybe feels a bit of a catch-22 in terms of like trying 00:56:22.906 --> 00:56:25.546 to go whole hog on maintaining the reputation of his file system, 00:56:25.726 --> 00:56:30.026 but then, you know, having the Linux community maybe push back and be like, 00:56:30.146 --> 00:56:32.646 yeah, well, these people should be building their own kernels. 00:56:37.486 --> 00:56:41.366 All right, back to present time. Of course, some time has passed, 00:56:41.406 --> 00:56:46.686 and the sting of it being removed from the kernel has lessened, 00:56:46.726 --> 00:56:50.646 I think, as we see sort of a workable solution get developed. 00:56:51.486 --> 00:56:57.846 Yeah, I mean, development continues. The DKMS path so far is marching ahead. 00:56:58.106 --> 00:57:00.826 We'll see. I mean, it's still somewhat early days, right? Like, 00:57:01.786 --> 00:57:05.146 if 6.18 comes out today, then it'll be the first kernel that, 00:57:05.146 --> 00:57:07.126 like, truly doesn't have Bcache at all. 00:57:07.526 --> 00:57:12.106 And folks, you know, folks move slow on kernels and file systems. 00:57:12.306 --> 00:57:16.486 So I think we'll see a bit before we know, see everything all switched over 00:57:16.486 --> 00:57:17.526 to DKMS. But it's coming. 00:57:18.546 --> 00:57:21.806 So this is sort of a make good because this entire thread has been a long, 00:57:21.946 --> 00:57:24.046 ongoing story. So we just wanted to get you updated on it. 00:57:24.366 --> 00:57:28.446 Brent, do you have any thoughts before we sort of do the final piece of the story? 00:57:28.686 --> 00:57:34.786 I think it's more of a question. My question, just reliving that moment back 00:57:34.786 --> 00:57:42.866 then, is considering it's been pulled from the colonel, what are the chances it might be back? 00:57:44.026 --> 00:57:47.906 You know we we back then i think was thinking this is maybe a temporary pull 00:57:47.906 --> 00:57:51.786 out till they figure things out and they'll try again but i'm not so sure anymore. 00:57:51.786 --> 00:57:57.106 It's a good question i think only a few people could probably answer that and 00:57:57.106 --> 00:57:58.426 linus might be one of them yeah. 00:57:58.426 --> 00:58:01.326 I think i wouldn't set my timeline to anything shorter than a few years. 00:58:01.326 --> 00:58:03.826 Yeah i don't know um but you're. 00:58:03.826 --> 00:58:05.166 True i have no special insight. 00:58:05.166 --> 00:58:11.606 So last bit of this thread from the bootleg version of the show this was the 00:58:11.606 --> 00:58:15.226 moment we documented where the actual removal process finally happened. 00:58:15.446 --> 00:58:18.006 So we go back to episode 635. 00:58:20.766 --> 00:58:26.466 We also got an update on the status of bcachefs in the Linux kernel, 00:58:26.466 --> 00:58:29.166 and I guess it's a necessary step. 00:58:29.526 --> 00:58:31.986 Yeah, I mean, I think that's pretty much the consensus. 00:58:32.486 --> 00:58:37.186 Linus wrote, bcachefs was marked externally maintained in 6.17, 00:58:37.506 --> 00:58:40.026 but the code remained to make the transition smoother. 00:58:40.646 --> 00:58:44.986 It's now a DKMS module, making the in-kernel code stale, so we're removing it 00:58:44.986 --> 00:58:46.726 to avoid any version confusion. 00:58:47.466 --> 00:58:52.326 And with that, 117,000 lines are removed from the kernel tree. 00:58:53.306 --> 00:58:57.806 BcacheFS users should now use the DKMS kernel modules. Wow. 00:58:58.831 --> 00:59:05.111 We did get some news on the DKMS kernel modules as well, and overall, it's pretty good news. 00:59:05.531 --> 00:59:11.091 Yeah, Kent came out with an official announcement. As of Linux 17 and BcacheFS 00:59:11.091 --> 00:59:17.071 tools, which are the user land side, version 1.31.5, BcacheFS is switching to 00:59:17.071 --> 00:59:18.651 distributing as a DKMS module. 00:59:19.171 --> 00:59:23.791 That means a normal make and make install of bcatchfs tools will also install 00:59:23.791 --> 00:59:27.311 the kernel module sources, which on a system with a normally functioning DKMS 00:59:27.311 --> 00:59:30.711 will then be built and available as like any other kernel module. 00:59:31.051 --> 00:59:32.311 And of course, generally, this will 00:59:32.311 --> 00:59:34.671 all be handled by our distribution or packaging or, you know, whatever. 00:59:34.951 --> 00:59:38.751 And he went on to kind of go into, well, one, big thank you, 00:59:38.891 --> 00:59:43.151 because a lot of folks have seemingly stepped up to help with this new packaging side of the project. 00:59:43.291 --> 00:59:47.511 So that's great to see. That is, yeah. He also touches on he's going to be providing 00:59:47.511 --> 00:59:49.191 for now a nightly release. 00:59:49.651 --> 00:59:53.631 Well, he'll have two channels, I should say. One is called nightly and one is called release. 00:59:53.891 --> 00:59:56.591 The nightly is as you expect, right? But the release channel, 00:59:56.671 --> 01:00:00.911 it's the latest tagged release. It has code that has been deemed stable. 01:00:01.879 --> 01:00:05.619 And Kent has been really good about communicating this, too. 01:00:05.839 --> 01:00:08.799 So not only is there, you know, obviously community discussions about this, 01:00:08.899 --> 01:00:13.479 but Kent is directly posting on his Patreon blog sort of just status updates 01:00:13.479 --> 01:00:15.299 for everybody so they know where things are at. 01:00:15.519 --> 01:00:20.039 He did mention also that they are looking eventually post-experimental status 01:00:20.039 --> 01:00:23.919 being dropped to have a real stable release channel as well that'll lag behind 01:00:23.919 --> 01:00:26.579 and just get sort of backboards. So that's coming. We're not there yet. 01:00:26.859 --> 01:00:32.419 For those LTS type folks. Right now, Nixos and Arch get what's labeled first-tier support. 01:00:32.639 --> 01:00:36.679 They're providing apt packages for Debian and Ubuntu, so you can get those added. 01:00:36.739 --> 01:00:42.079 And they're also looking at getting BcacheFS tools back into Debian proper. So, TBD on that. 01:00:42.799 --> 01:00:46.079 Fedora has long had a well-supported BcacheFS tools package, 01:00:46.119 --> 01:00:49.719 and Kent shouts out a friend of our show, Neil Gampa, on that. So that's great. 01:00:49.899 --> 01:00:54.359 Hey, Milo! The one caveat, though, now is since bcachefs isn't in the kernel, 01:00:54.659 --> 01:00:58.359 bcachefs tools, the package itself can no longer be supplied as part of the 01:00:58.359 --> 01:01:03.579 main Fedora distribution due to a policy in Fedora about how to treat kernel 01:01:03.579 --> 01:01:06.419 modules, I guess. So instead, there's now a copper available for that. 01:01:06.979 --> 01:01:08.919 But it sounds like otherwise it's sort of, you know, a long, 01:01:09.119 --> 01:01:12.659 a well-tested package. And if you're on Nix or Arch, you're pretty much going 01:01:12.659 --> 01:01:13.839 to get first-tier support. Yep. 01:01:14.059 --> 01:01:15.859 That's what it, that's what they expect. Okay. Well, I mean, 01:01:16.359 --> 01:01:19.839 works for us. Yeah, I think they're not sure yet on the status in OpenSUSE. That's ongoing. 01:01:20.199 --> 01:01:23.479 And he has some more notes about Slackware and a few other distros in the post, 01:01:23.499 --> 01:01:25.419 if you're curious for more deets there. 01:01:25.639 --> 01:01:28.219 So DKMS lifestyle it is for us. That's right. 01:01:33.159 --> 01:01:38.299 Okay, well, I thought, let's do one more clip from the bootleg that sort of 01:01:38.299 --> 01:01:40.739 puts a cap on this. And that is Linus himself. 01:01:41.199 --> 01:01:43.999 He was at an event and he was doing a Q&A with Dirk. 01:01:44.439 --> 01:01:49.339 And they don't directly say the name, but some of these issues come up. 01:01:49.339 --> 01:01:52.359 Like also this year, we've had a lot of Rust maintainers quit. 01:01:52.719 --> 01:01:56.799 In fact, I believe now we're just down to one Rust for Linux project leader 01:01:56.799 --> 01:02:00.379 as the sole maintainer for the code while there's a couple of Rust reviewers. 01:02:01.603 --> 01:02:05.863 So the Rust folks have had a rough year. There's been this issue with Bcash FS. 01:02:06.603 --> 01:02:11.323 And so Linus takes a moment to reflect on it. And this was just a couple of weeks ago. 01:02:11.883 --> 01:02:19.723 Yeah, we had this year was a bit tumultuous. We had a lot of disagreements to 01:02:19.723 --> 01:02:27.743 the point where parts of the kernel was made external just to avoid a lot of friction. 01:02:28.043 --> 01:02:31.763 To be fair, that was not the first time it happened. But it's been a while. 01:02:33.523 --> 01:02:39.723 We've had pieces of the kernel that were not being used or had serious enough 01:02:39.723 --> 01:02:43.223 issues that we had to excise from the kernel. It's rare. 01:02:43.843 --> 01:02:52.283 In 35 years, it's happened only a handful of times, so it's not an enjoyable experience. 01:02:52.623 --> 01:02:57.223 But at the same time, I feel that we've been able to deal with it fairly well. 01:02:57.923 --> 01:03:03.303 Any big project where literally thousands of people we have every single release 01:03:03.303 --> 01:03:06.563 we have over a thousand people involved and that's, 01:03:07.793 --> 01:03:11.113 every two months right you will have personal 01:03:11.113 --> 01:03:14.193 disagreements you will have professional disagreements you 01:03:14.193 --> 01:03:20.173 will have friction and and that's all part of life and and i think we're mostly 01:03:20.173 --> 01:03:27.333 one big happy family i i think i would more describe it as a very mature group 01:03:27.333 --> 01:03:30.933 of people who have figured out how to work with each other but yeah i'll go 01:03:30.933 --> 01:03:32.673 with a happy family that's. 01:03:32.673 --> 01:03:35.533 I think his way of saying you know it wasn't necessarily easy on him either 01:03:35.533 --> 01:03:40.053 the whole process i don't This story isn't over yet, but that is our coverage 01:03:40.053 --> 01:03:42.973 so far as it was in the bootleg that hadn't made it in the main show. 01:03:43.753 --> 01:03:45.393 Do you have any follow-up thoughts or any? 01:03:45.753 --> 01:03:50.473 Oh, I do want to underscore. It does seem like we were looking just now, 01:03:50.533 --> 01:03:54.193 and the last update to the pcachefs tools repo was like 14 minutes ago. 01:03:54.313 --> 01:03:58.073 And I have continued to see Kent out there engaging with the community, providing support. 01:03:58.513 --> 01:04:01.873 I think things have just been a little quiet because we're in a stabilization period. 01:04:02.093 --> 01:04:06.773 Kent is known for listening to the show on occasion. So if you have any production 01:04:06.773 --> 01:04:10.073 systems out there or home lab systems or whatever you want to call it that are 01:04:10.073 --> 01:04:14.673 running Bcache FS in the enterprise or on your own laptop, let us know. 01:04:14.813 --> 01:04:16.873 Send us a contact or send us a boost. 01:04:18.293 --> 01:04:21.333 And that might be useful in a future episode. So send those in. 01:04:21.773 --> 01:04:23.313 Now, I was just looking at the chat room there. 01:04:24.331 --> 01:04:27.451 And, you know, our buddy, Hybrid Sarcasm, big supporter of the show, 01:04:27.951 --> 01:04:31.811 awesome member of our community, he says in here, Chris Rants are the only reason 01:04:31.811 --> 01:04:33.131 one needs to become a member. 01:04:33.851 --> 01:04:38.631 And so it is the Black Friday, Cyber Monday season. 01:04:39.371 --> 01:04:42.651 And we do have a promo code, promo code bootleg, which takes, 01:04:42.871 --> 01:04:47.511 I think, 15% off a membership if you would like to sign up. 01:04:47.511 --> 01:04:54.231 And I will, just for you, hybrid, I will play a rant that actually ends with 01:04:54.231 --> 01:04:55.971 a little bit of an update from this week. 01:04:56.111 --> 01:05:00.351 So this is from LUP625's pre-show. 01:05:04.311 --> 01:05:09.631 It all comes down to the damn enterprise distros. It's all because of the damn enterprise distros. 01:05:11.831 --> 01:05:17.231 Because these things lock us into these 10-year windows of time where something 01:05:17.231 --> 01:05:22.111 that crops up can be an issue in this world, right? These problems... 01:05:23.045 --> 01:05:28.705 Are only problems for small windows of time if you regularly update your system. 01:05:28.945 --> 01:05:32.705 And God forbid, maybe you even have an immutable box with the applications and 01:05:32.705 --> 01:05:36.825 the data separately and you just continuously update the immutable base and 01:05:36.825 --> 01:05:40.565 you update the applications as the business need require or compliance requires. 01:05:41.005 --> 01:05:45.045 God forbid you go that route because if you did, then these problems are like 01:05:45.045 --> 01:05:48.825 a problem for 15 minutes and then you just deploy the patch. 01:05:49.245 --> 01:05:52.545 And all of these conversations should be keeping that in perspective. 01:05:53.045 --> 01:05:57.565 Is these problems are problems for small periods of time and then are fixed. 01:05:57.865 --> 01:06:02.545 And something that doesn't do something can do something later because we can 01:06:02.545 --> 01:06:05.345 add functionality and features to the software and update it. 01:06:05.625 --> 01:06:11.845 But if you're running some crazy esoteric business fork of Linux and your world 01:06:11.845 --> 01:06:14.565 doesn't update, that doesn't mean the rest of us are living that. 01:06:14.785 --> 01:06:18.105 And I think that has to be included in the conversation because it's looked at. 01:06:18.305 --> 01:06:22.565 I think we all go through this default bias filter of, Well, 01:06:22.725 --> 01:06:24.785 they're enterprise systems in the 10-year update cycle. 01:06:24.925 --> 01:06:27.365 So, you know, if you have a problem and a vulnerability in this library, 01:06:27.565 --> 01:06:30.185 then it could be an issue for tens of thousands of systems that don't update. 01:06:30.805 --> 01:06:31.985 Yeah, well, they're doing it wrong. 01:06:32.625 --> 01:06:36.245 And we shouldn't, I don't know why we bend over backwards to enable a way to 01:06:36.245 --> 01:06:39.145 deliver Linux that is not compatible with the way Linux is developed. 01:06:39.805 --> 01:06:43.045 And not only is it incompatible with the way Linux and features are developed 01:06:43.045 --> 01:06:45.785 and distributed, but it's not great for security. 01:06:46.505 --> 01:06:50.165 And it's the the issue holding us back is your application vendor compatibility 01:06:50.165 --> 01:06:53.505 with the vendor requires that we run this on susa linux or it requires we use 01:06:53.505 --> 01:07:00.445 rel you're the customer tell them every year we want this in a container we 01:07:00.445 --> 01:07:02.265 want this in a vm whatever it takes, 01:07:03.125 --> 01:07:08.785 and and then we can start the process of rolling out updates as required and 01:07:08.785 --> 01:07:12.665 it doesn't have to be this big thing it can just be the way the system works. 01:07:13.949 --> 01:07:17.949 It can just be the way that iOS and Android have solved this problem, 01:07:17.949 --> 01:07:20.569 and we don't see it become a huge issue. 01:07:21.849 --> 01:07:28.309 And like when I see what the trickle down culture of that is, 01:07:28.469 --> 01:07:32.129 is this sort of I don't need to update my view. 01:07:32.509 --> 01:07:37.429 I don't need to reassess my stance because, you know, it's probably valid for 01:07:37.429 --> 01:07:43.589 a decade. And it inbreeds this laziness and this anti-intellectual approach 01:07:43.589 --> 01:07:46.269 to understanding how the software is developed and how it works. 01:07:46.449 --> 01:07:51.029 And then it creates this culture of bashing these things like IOU ring or butter 01:07:51.029 --> 01:07:54.029 FS or Bcash FS or whatever the next thing is. 01:07:54.469 --> 01:08:01.009 And it's based on these outdated or misinformed assumptions that really I think 01:08:01.009 --> 01:08:02.189 stem from enterprise Linux. 01:08:07.448 --> 01:08:13.328 And I felt like Red Hat must have been listening because this week they introduced 01:08:13.328 --> 01:08:17.428 Project Hummingbird to accelerate cloud-native development and, 01:08:17.448 --> 01:08:21.028 quote, zero CVE strategies. 01:08:21.588 --> 01:08:26.068 So I think what this really is, is you could think of it as a version of their 01:08:26.068 --> 01:08:30.868 UBI images, but instead of being based on RHEL, they're based on Fedora. 01:08:31.028 --> 01:08:33.488 And I think maybe even like the Rawhide version of Fedora. 01:08:34.248 --> 01:08:38.308 So these are coming in with like super hot patches. 01:08:38.628 --> 01:08:42.828 They call it the zero CV status, meaning Red Hat hummingbird images are shipped 01:08:42.828 --> 01:08:44.068 free of known vulnerabilities. 01:08:44.328 --> 01:08:48.568 The functionality testing already completed, confirming that their images are 01:08:48.568 --> 01:08:51.908 also genuinely useful and stable. Genuinely useful and stable, Wes. 01:08:52.088 --> 01:08:55.348 Yeah, I think that's their way of saying we're testing these well. 01:08:55.428 --> 01:09:02.368 But the phrasing is a bit odd. They do also seem to focus on them being very 01:09:02.368 --> 01:09:03.828 application-specific, right? 01:09:03.968 --> 01:09:08.608 So languages and runtimes, so .NET or containers ready to go for Java or running 01:09:08.608 --> 01:09:13.048 Node apps, as well as stuff like MariaDB or Postgres, Nginx, 01:09:13.208 --> 01:09:14.068 Caddy, that kind of thing. 01:09:14.148 --> 01:09:17.028 So maybe more focused than some of the general UPI stuff. 01:09:19.226 --> 01:09:24.146 Um, love to see it. Don't know what kind of adoption UBI is getting and what 01:09:24.146 --> 01:09:25.846 kind of adoption Project Hummingbird will get. 01:09:26.226 --> 01:09:28.286 Things like they include a lot of things companies like. 01:09:28.786 --> 01:09:31.686 Um, so they have minimal releases and they have hardened versions. 01:09:31.906 --> 01:09:34.506 They have a total bill of materials in there enabling, quote, 01:09:34.526 --> 01:09:35.806 users to verify contents. 01:09:36.246 --> 01:09:39.806 Yeah, that's what I was going to call out was, um, maybe trying to compete with 01:09:39.806 --> 01:09:42.306 some things like Chain Guard or similar that are offering, like, 01:09:42.366 --> 01:09:44.006 here's a tiny image. It does one thing. 01:09:44.166 --> 01:09:47.366 And also here's the list of everything in it and exactly where we got it. 01:09:47.506 --> 01:09:49.746 Yeah. You can just get it from us. You can just get it from us. 01:09:49.966 --> 01:09:52.486 I do like that Fedora gets a proper call out in here, right? 01:09:52.666 --> 01:09:56.406 So they say, again, I said this part, Project Hummingbird is built on the open 01:09:56.406 --> 01:09:59.646 source development process originating from Fedora Linux components. 01:10:00.006 --> 01:10:02.346 And then they go on to say, and they didn't need to save this part, 01:10:02.926 --> 01:10:06.606 Fedora Linux serves as the upstream source for Red Hat Enterprise Linux development. 01:10:07.286 --> 01:10:10.666 I just, every time we just sort of, you know, cement that a little bit more 01:10:10.666 --> 01:10:14.686 into the RHEL culture, right? We just, Fedora is a vital part of RHEL. 01:10:14.806 --> 01:10:15.866 We're putting it in this press release? 01:10:15.926 --> 01:10:19.026 Yes. I like that. I like that a lot. probably not 01:10:19.026 --> 01:10:22.006 something i'm going to use but it is interesting to 01:10:22.006 --> 01:10:25.506 see when when i have a caricature in my mind of 01:10:25.506 --> 01:10:29.546 these enterprise linux distros that i was ranting about in that clip from forever 01:10:29.546 --> 01:10:35.646 ago it's these rel systems that haven't been upgraded in three releases because 01:10:35.646 --> 01:10:39.466 of the difficulty of it which is what i spent a lot of my early years fixing 01:10:39.466 --> 01:10:43.566 was systems that were three or more releases behind consistently. 01:10:43.566 --> 01:10:48.586 I do think like putting on my dev hat if i were at a company that was in this kind of environment. 01:10:48.766 --> 01:10:53.786 This would seem like a pretty nice offering that I'd be able to pull in from. 01:10:54.226 --> 01:10:59.226 Look at them go. Look at them go. So you're missing some content if you're not 01:10:59.226 --> 01:11:01.886 a member, and it is a great way to just put your support on autopilot. 01:11:01.966 --> 01:11:05.326 There's also an ad-free version of the feed if the bootleg isn't for you. 01:11:05.966 --> 01:11:08.966 Just use the promo code BOOTLEG when you check out. You'll get, 01:11:09.066 --> 01:11:13.346 I think it's like 15% off the membership, I think a party or the Unplugged Core membership. 01:11:13.906 --> 01:11:17.006 You can go to jupyter.party for the whole network and get all the bootleg feeds. 01:11:17.566 --> 01:11:20.866 Or linuxunplugged.com slash membership for just this here show. 01:11:24.425 --> 01:11:28.985 Join crowdhealth.com and use the promo code unplugged. It is open enrollment 01:11:28.985 --> 01:11:31.325 time, the season where the health insurance companies are going to hope you'll 01:11:31.325 --> 01:11:35.945 just sign up again for overpriced premiums and confusing fine print that never 01:11:35.945 --> 01:11:36.865 seems to work in your favor. 01:11:37.545 --> 01:11:41.265 And the prices just seems to get worse all the time. It's horrible. 01:11:41.785 --> 01:11:44.125 I had a tough call to make, especially as a small business owner, 01:11:44.225 --> 01:11:46.805 what direction I was going to go. My wife also owns her own small business. 01:11:47.625 --> 01:11:50.905 And we looked at all the options. We tried the traditional routes. 01:11:51.065 --> 01:11:52.105 It wasn't working for us. 01:11:52.825 --> 01:11:55.625 I was so grateful. over three years ago when I found CrowdHealth. 01:11:56.185 --> 01:11:58.345 I think it's time to stop playing the health insurance game. 01:11:58.505 --> 01:12:02.225 You can join CrowdHealth. It's a community of people funding each other's medical bills directly. 01:12:02.545 --> 01:12:07.025 No middleman, no networks, no nonsense. But don't just take my word for it. 01:12:07.125 --> 01:12:10.005 Go trust yourself and go take control of your future with CrowdHealth. 01:12:10.145 --> 01:12:13.365 It's a health care alternative for people who make their own decisions. 01:12:14.005 --> 01:12:19.545 Health insurance is, it's really stressful. It's confusing and you never really get what you want. 01:12:19.605 --> 01:12:23.245 And when you see the prices, you wonder what's ever going to stop this train. 01:12:23.945 --> 01:12:28.325 Well, this is how we take the power back. And it's incredible how well it works. 01:12:28.425 --> 01:12:31.065 And they have a beautiful app that makes it really simple, straightforward. 01:12:31.265 --> 01:12:32.125 Of course, they have a website too. 01:12:32.785 --> 01:12:36.185 Chat, customer support's all right there. Really great leadership team. 01:12:36.345 --> 01:12:40.165 I've talked to the CEO. I've talked to people around there just casually and, 01:12:40.265 --> 01:12:43.005 of course, through the course of doing business with them now for the ads. 01:12:43.305 --> 01:12:47.205 And I'm really impressed. And not only do I like what I've seen over the last 01:12:47.205 --> 01:12:50.005 three years, but I like the momentum. 01:12:50.985 --> 01:12:54.745 I feel like I've picked a winner here. I think it's something you should really 01:12:54.745 --> 01:12:58.305 check out because it works well for me. It works well for my wife and I. 01:12:58.905 --> 01:13:02.745 And you can get health care for under $100. You get access to a team of health 01:13:02.745 --> 01:13:06.185 bill negotiators, low-cost prescriptions, lab testing tools, 01:13:06.345 --> 01:13:10.025 as well as a database of low-cost, high-quality doctors that get vetted by CrowdHealth. 01:13:10.285 --> 01:13:11.545 It's an insurance alternative. 01:13:12.045 --> 01:13:16.425 And if something major happens, you pay the first $500, then the crowd steps in to fund the rest. 01:13:17.558 --> 01:13:20.958 It's really the way it should work now. And of course, you'll join the crowd. 01:13:20.958 --> 01:13:23.958 It's a group of members just like you who want to help pay for each other's 01:13:23.958 --> 01:13:25.138 unexpected medical events. 01:13:25.558 --> 01:13:27.458 You'll be impressed of how well it works, too. 01:13:28.238 --> 01:13:33.178 The system is betting out there that you're just going to keep buying the same overpriced insurance. 01:13:34.038 --> 01:13:37.338 And man, are they just making a boatload of money. And it gets so complicated 01:13:37.338 --> 01:13:40.918 now. And if these subsidies expire, prices are going to go sky high. 01:13:41.498 --> 01:13:45.318 If you join CrowdHealth and use our promo code UNPLUGGED, you can get started 01:13:45.318 --> 01:13:48.718 for $99 for your first three months. That's fantastic. 01:13:49.098 --> 01:13:52.758 So far, CrowdHealth members have saved over $40 million in health care expenses 01:13:52.758 --> 01:13:54.738 because they just refused to overpay for health care. 01:13:55.338 --> 01:13:59.118 Now, CrowdHealth is not insurance. You should opt out and take your power back. 01:13:59.238 --> 01:14:01.018 This is how we win. This is how we change it. 01:14:01.358 --> 01:14:05.218 Joincrowdhealth.com, promo code UNPLUG, take your power back, 01:14:05.358 --> 01:14:06.798 and come join the crowd with me. 01:14:07.298 --> 01:14:10.678 I think you're going to be really impressed. Joincrowdhealth.com and use the 01:14:10.678 --> 01:14:14.978 promo code UNPLUG, and you will get your first three months for $99, 01:14:15.178 --> 01:14:19.018 which is incredible. Use the promo code unplugged at joincrowdhealth.com. 01:14:21.133 --> 01:14:24.853 Unraid.net slash unplugged. You want to build your own dream server? 01:14:24.993 --> 01:14:28.333 Well, unraid 7.2 makes it easier than ever. 01:14:28.673 --> 01:14:33.133 Go unleash your hardware. Now with a fully responsive web GUI, 01:14:33.293 --> 01:14:36.013 unraid now works beautifully across all your devices. 01:14:36.233 --> 01:14:42.013 You can set there and build your favorite application stack from your couch if you want. 01:14:42.253 --> 01:14:46.053 I think what you're really going to like too if you do the ZFS thing is it also 01:14:46.053 --> 01:14:48.493 adds ZFS RAID Z expansion support. 01:14:48.653 --> 01:14:52.813 That means you can now grow your ZFS pools with having to start over. 01:14:53.513 --> 01:14:58.093 Man, that's great to see. And for those that maybe have a spare USB or external 01:14:58.093 --> 01:15:01.993 hard drive, Unraid 7.2 introduces support for Extended 2, 3, 01:15:02.073 --> 01:15:04.833 4, and NTFS as well as Extended Fat. 01:15:05.133 --> 01:15:09.013 And so if you've got grandpa's photos like I do on an old NTFS drive somebody 01:15:09.013 --> 01:15:12.613 gave you, you can just now instead of having to build that Windows box or try 01:15:12.613 --> 01:15:16.153 to load that NTFS driver on your Linux desktop, just plug it into your Unraid. 01:15:16.693 --> 01:15:21.813 There's also a new API. It's officially here. It's real. It's beautiful. 01:15:21.973 --> 01:15:24.133 People are building stuff on top of it, and it's open source. 01:15:24.413 --> 01:15:28.573 Fully integrated. It gives you secure, programmable access to system data for 01:15:28.573 --> 01:15:31.793 building dashboards, automations, or your own external apps. 01:15:32.413 --> 01:15:37.153 It even supports external authentication via OIDC, or OIDC, as you called. 01:15:37.713 --> 01:15:41.633 It's massive. I mean, 7.2's already had well over 25,000 downloads, 01:15:41.793 --> 01:15:43.273 lots of applications coming out. 01:15:43.393 --> 01:15:48.453 You can get a free 30-day trial and support the show when you go to unray.net 01:15:48.453 --> 01:15:51.273 slash It's the OS that grows with your skills. 01:15:51.493 --> 01:15:56.473 And 7.2 introduces the new Unraid API, and it's chef's kiss. 01:15:56.793 --> 01:15:59.493 Check it out, support the show, and get a free 30-day trial. 01:15:59.753 --> 01:16:02.033 Unraid.net slash unplugged. 01:16:04.733 --> 01:16:10.293 Well, we've got a baller boost this week from someone dear to my heart, A.A. Ron. 01:16:11.493 --> 01:16:18.413 A.A. Ron sent in 96,670 sats across three boosts. 01:16:18.693 --> 01:16:19.113 Oh-ho! 01:16:23.820 --> 01:16:27.640 Coming in, going to be doing a big lift for this episode. Thank you, Aaron. 01:16:27.860 --> 01:16:29.320 Here with the baller for sure. 01:16:29.540 --> 01:16:34.040 I heard a while back mention of Talos OS and it intrigued me. 01:16:34.200 --> 01:16:36.320 I haven't had a chance to play with it until now. 01:16:37.200 --> 01:16:41.100 Anita rose for a dev Kubernetes cluster, so I figured I would give it a try. 01:16:41.460 --> 01:16:44.280 It's stupid easy how Talos makes it. 01:16:44.600 --> 01:16:48.360 What was originally a week's worth of effort was done in like five minutes. 01:16:48.620 --> 01:16:52.960 I'll be playing around more with it, but very happy so far. And as always, 01:16:53.220 --> 01:16:55.580 love that show. Thanks for all you do. 01:16:55.740 --> 01:16:58.540 Yeah, keep the experience reports coming. Talos does look quite good. 01:16:58.700 --> 01:17:02.740 Of course, A.A. Run had some other ideas. Here's a little extra for the holidays. 01:17:03.300 --> 01:17:08.000 I think a home lab special is a great idea, and I'll be submitting mine as soon as I can. 01:17:08.220 --> 01:17:11.500 Maybe you can include an award for the longest running server. 01:17:12.060 --> 01:17:17.580 Ooh, uptime, you mean? Like an uptime award? Also slash oldest kernel. 01:17:18.240 --> 01:17:25.440 Is it, you know, you can do uptime, But you can also do like longest age of 01:17:25.440 --> 01:17:28.140 initial, you know, deployment. 01:17:28.440 --> 01:17:31.960 I wonder how long people, how many people out there could beat fake NAS, 01:17:32.100 --> 01:17:35.580 which has got to be, we've been having, we've had it running for a decade, 01:17:35.580 --> 01:17:40.720 but it was used when we bought it and had been in production for three or four years when we bought it. 01:17:40.720 --> 01:17:46.380 So that server is probably 13 or 14 years old and amazingly power was cut to 01:17:46.380 --> 01:17:50.780 it twice last night as the circuit blew and just picks right back up. 01:17:50.780 --> 01:17:54.080 Why the circuit blow Chris is really strange that that would happen because. 01:17:54.080 --> 01:18:01.820 I use the microwave. Oh, so yeah. Studios got some original weird wiring the studio itself. 01:18:02.040 --> 01:18:06.180 We redid the wiring in this room out the rest of the place. 01:18:06.560 --> 01:18:07.540 You don't want to know. 01:18:07.780 --> 01:18:11.240 Yeah, you could you could you could build it fast. you can build it cheap or 01:18:11.240 --> 01:18:15.380 you can build it right and they picked two so it is what it is. 01:18:16.200 --> 01:18:18.820 Bob the nut comes in with 4 000 sats. 01:18:18.820 --> 01:18:23.620 Hey it's bob hey bob i i guess i know i think it's bob i think i know him, 01:18:26.393 --> 01:18:27.713 I think I know which Bob this is. 01:18:28.753 --> 01:18:30.173 Bob says, cheers. 01:18:30.453 --> 01:18:31.513 Well, cheers to you. 01:18:31.893 --> 01:18:32.573 Thanks for the boost. 01:18:32.693 --> 01:18:36.773 Thank you very much. Well, look who it is, guys. It's Chlorifora. 01:18:38.053 --> 01:18:42.653 Chloriflora. Am I getting it? Chloriflora. Chloriflora. He comes in with a row of ducks. 01:18:44.413 --> 01:18:47.413 2,222 sats. Looks like I really need to change my nickname. 01:18:48.413 --> 01:18:52.473 It might have something to do with what just happened. I don't know. 01:18:52.593 --> 01:18:57.413 Yeah, maybe. You know, I apologize. guys. Uh, it's a deficiency of mine. 01:18:58.293 --> 01:19:00.773 I'm, I'm definitely, I'm going to nail it though. One of these days, 01:19:00.953 --> 01:19:03.133 it's definitely, I'm going to get better about it. It's going to happen. 01:19:03.253 --> 01:19:06.033 If you don't nail it, you're going to start collecting some adversaries. 01:19:06.313 --> 01:19:07.413 Yeah. Or adversaries. 01:19:07.793 --> 01:19:08.633 Yeah. Something like that. 01:19:09.193 --> 01:19:12.773 Monty comes in with 4,444 sets. 01:19:15.410 --> 01:19:21.110 Yeah, double ducks. Gadzooks! I run a very similar switch for external access 01:19:21.110 --> 01:19:22.610 to what Chris just set up. 01:19:22.750 --> 01:19:22.970 Ah! 01:19:23.310 --> 01:19:26.870 Mine skips the ngrok and incorporates something I picked up from you guys, 01:19:27.010 --> 01:19:29.350 which is tunneling a reverse proxy over a mesh network. 01:19:29.570 --> 01:19:34.630 I have a VPS that runs Caddy, and it proxies any service I want publicly available over tailscale. 01:19:34.890 --> 01:19:38.950 At the very bottom of the Caddy file, I import. Looks like he's got an Etsy 01:19:38.950 --> 01:19:41.210 Caddy secure and then a .caddy folder. 01:19:41.330 --> 01:19:46.950 Nice. In that secure subdue, I have files such as secureservices.caddy.disabled. 01:19:47.070 --> 01:19:47.510 Okay. 01:19:47.850 --> 01:19:51.510 Then in Home Assistant, I have a switch that triggers the shell command to rename 01:19:51.510 --> 01:19:54.750 that file to secureservices.caddy. 01:19:54.890 --> 01:19:55.050 Yeah. 01:19:55.250 --> 01:19:57.850 Flip the switch off, and it names it back to disabled. 01:19:58.130 --> 01:20:01.330 That's a clever way to do it. There's so many ways to do that. 01:20:01.490 --> 01:20:06.010 And then Monty continues with a plus one to config confessions round three. 01:20:06.230 --> 01:20:10.950 I really like hearing about unique ways people approach solving problems through declarative configs. 01:20:11.530 --> 01:20:14.250 Well, thank you, Monty. And I love hearing your setup there. 01:20:14.450 --> 01:20:15.890 That's a great way to do it. 01:20:16.010 --> 01:20:22.370 And yeah, if you've got the VPS and you got a little NGINX foo under your belt, 10-minute job. 01:20:22.690 --> 01:20:25.370 Just get it on your mesh network and go to town. I mean, in a way, 01:20:25.470 --> 01:20:27.450 Jelly Swarm is doing some of that for me. 01:20:27.770 --> 01:20:31.510 Only on top of it, it's layering over that interface to combine the Jellyfin 01:20:31.510 --> 01:20:34.350 servers and do the user ID mapping and have the UI. 01:20:34.530 --> 01:20:36.930 So it's doing a bit more than just the NGINX bit. 01:20:37.650 --> 01:20:43.510 Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Gene Bean comes in with 8,922 SATs. 01:20:47.444 --> 01:20:51.124 Chris, it's time to get on the home manager train. Whoop, whoop. 01:20:51.244 --> 01:20:53.744 Oh, boy. You know, I feel like there is. 01:20:53.744 --> 01:20:55.244 Gene Bean coming in with the truth. 01:20:55.564 --> 01:21:03.104 Oh, man. I feel like there's just no stopping this. I can feel the home manager train. 01:21:06.204 --> 01:21:10.264 He says, it is a simple way to do so many of the things that you try to do, 01:21:10.284 --> 01:21:13.504 and it enables a lot of, like, nixing-type stuff on Ubuntu and the like, 01:21:13.724 --> 01:21:15.204 you know, like your studio machines. 01:21:15.704 --> 01:21:20.364 Also, plus one for config confessions part three. I'm catching up on episodes 01:21:20.364 --> 01:21:22.964 after falling behind and totally missed round two. 01:21:23.324 --> 01:21:27.364 If it's practical for round three, give us a month notice along with concrete 01:21:27.364 --> 01:21:32.824 deadlines so we can help staving off procrastination. 01:21:32.844 --> 01:21:34.664 These are some quality tips. 01:21:34.864 --> 01:21:37.764 Well, Gene, this is why we're giving you a heads up about the Home Lab Challenge, 01:21:37.924 --> 01:21:40.904 right? We're trying to give you a heads up, but there's only so much time for the holidays. 01:21:41.404 --> 01:21:44.744 But we could, like maybe set a date that's a few months out. 01:21:45.204 --> 01:21:47.444 For the next one. This round's been great, he says. 01:21:48.084 --> 01:21:52.704 He also wants to know whatever became a Steam OS getting released as a general distro. 01:21:53.664 --> 01:21:55.304 Yeah, what did become of that? 01:21:55.544 --> 01:21:58.644 Their answer when you ask Valve now is, well, we've done a lot of work to make 01:21:58.644 --> 01:22:01.324 it work on many AMD devices, so give it a shot. 01:22:03.244 --> 01:22:03.644 Okay. 01:22:03.824 --> 01:22:04.124 Thanks. 01:22:04.384 --> 01:22:09.184 Yeah, okay. Yeah. Also, plus one listener Alex's comment about the ATL being 01:22:09.184 --> 01:22:10.724 ripe for a live show. ATL? 01:22:11.744 --> 01:22:12.144 Atlanta. 01:22:14.144 --> 01:22:18.344 Oh yeah all right i like that i like that a lot. 01:22:18.344 --> 01:22:22.384 Soham g comes in with two thousand cents, 01:22:24.264 --> 01:22:27.584 okay about git my semi-hot take 01:22:27.584 --> 01:22:31.404 is that git is poorly designed and even in computer science very few people 01:22:31.404 --> 01:22:35.484 actually use it efficiently because of this teaching people git is a fool's 01:22:35.484 --> 01:22:40.224 errand whoa i use fossil for my nix configs and mirror them to github see the 01:22:40.224 --> 01:22:44.624 talk by fossil and and sequel-like creator Richard Hipp on YouTube for more. 01:22:44.764 --> 01:22:45.124 Huh. 01:22:47.200 --> 01:22:50.740 Coming in hot. What do you think? Is it a waste of time? I can't agree. 01:22:50.840 --> 01:22:55.640 I don't know if I'll go that strong, but I do think wanting improvement is good, 01:22:55.760 --> 01:22:59.320 and Fossil and some other stuff like the jujitsu tool. 01:22:59.520 --> 01:23:04.140 There are some promising better tools than Gets. So I don't think it's, 01:23:04.280 --> 01:23:07.260 you know, it may be a local optimum. It's definitely not a global optimum. 01:23:08.080 --> 01:23:09.220 All right, we'll take that. 01:23:09.760 --> 01:23:13.160 Well, hybrid sarcasm boosted in 15,000 sets. 01:23:17.400 --> 01:23:22.180 Hybrid says, pew, pew, boosting to remind everyone that the Boosties are right around the corner. 01:23:22.420 --> 01:23:28.240 Get your baller boosts in to boost your chances of winning a free year of the 01:23:28.240 --> 01:23:29.740 Jupiter Party membership. 01:23:30.820 --> 01:23:36.980 Yeah, Hybrid is going to gift the Jupiter Party membership to somebody who is our Boosties winner. 01:23:37.060 --> 01:23:40.300 And if you already have one, then he can give it to somebody else or you can as well. 01:23:40.780 --> 01:23:42.920 That's going to be great. And we really appreciate that. Hybrid, 01:23:43.140 --> 01:23:45.780 you're a good guy. You know what? He's a good guy, right? 01:23:46.140 --> 01:23:46.980 Yeah, a real good guy. 01:23:49.754 --> 01:23:50.314 Real good guy. 01:23:50.474 --> 01:23:51.434 Real good guy. 01:23:51.634 --> 01:23:55.594 Real good guy. Morris comes in with 5,000 sats. 01:23:56.834 --> 01:24:02.354 Jelly Swarm solves a problem I didn't know I had. Yeah, I agree, right? It was so great. 01:24:03.714 --> 01:24:06.674 Have some sats? Is that what he says there? What's he saying there, 01:24:06.734 --> 01:24:08.494 Wes? You look like you have an idea. 01:24:08.734 --> 01:24:11.434 No, a signal? Sigma? 01:24:11.674 --> 01:24:12.334 Sigma sats. 01:24:12.534 --> 01:24:12.674 Yeah. 01:24:13.114 --> 01:24:16.234 I'm going to go with that. Thank you, Morris. Yeah, Jelly Swarm, 01:24:16.494 --> 01:24:19.934 Wes came in clutch on that one. And I mean, I'm glad I had a chance to build 01:24:19.934 --> 01:24:21.914 my whole tunnel thing because I can use it for a couple of other things. 01:24:22.054 --> 01:24:24.954 But boy, oh boy, I was off on the wrong track on that one. 01:24:25.114 --> 01:24:28.694 Well, I'm just so excited to see more and more stuff being built on Jellyfin 01:24:28.694 --> 01:24:31.714 like that. It's been calling out kind of for various tools like that. 01:24:32.194 --> 01:24:36.654 The last year has been really good for things building around Jellyfin. 01:24:36.794 --> 01:24:41.994 And I think it's going to be a matter of time before our friends in our circle 01:24:41.994 --> 01:24:43.994 that still have Plex will probably give Jellyfin another look. 01:24:44.114 --> 01:24:47.194 Because there's just so many great apps around it. Thank you everybody who supported 01:24:47.194 --> 01:24:48.214 this episode with a boost. 01:24:48.334 --> 01:24:50.774 It's a value for value production, and that means if you get some value out 01:24:50.774 --> 01:24:52.514 of the show, we'd really like it if you set it back our way. 01:24:52.594 --> 01:24:54.654 There are several ways to do it, and one of them is a boost. 01:24:54.974 --> 01:24:57.354 And we had 23 of you stream sats as you listened. 01:24:57.714 --> 01:25:03.174 You collectively stacked for us 33,724 sats. Not our strongest showing ever, 01:25:03.374 --> 01:25:05.554 but, you know, it's there. It's there, and we appreciate it. 01:25:05.834 --> 01:25:09.154 So you can say that about it. And then, of course, when it comes to our total 01:25:09.154 --> 01:25:13.274 this week, we stacked 172,522 sats. 01:25:14.054 --> 01:25:17.754 Thank you everyone who boosted in. Fountain.fm is making some big leaps forward 01:25:17.754 --> 01:25:19.994 on the interface and some of the features. 01:25:20.294 --> 01:25:23.594 So if you haven't checked it out for a while, now's a great time and it makes 01:25:23.594 --> 01:25:24.534 it easier to boost than ever. 01:25:24.694 --> 01:25:27.754 There is a completely self-hosted route with things like AlbiHub and there's 01:25:27.754 --> 01:25:32.274 a plethora of great podcast apps over at newpodcastapps.com. Head on over there. 01:25:32.434 --> 01:25:35.114 See if one fits your needs. Support the show with a boost. 01:25:42.238 --> 01:25:46.218 And, of course, a big thank you to our members who put their support on Autopilot. 01:25:46.918 --> 01:25:50.718 Shows like this, they're not going to last long term without audience support, 01:25:50.918 --> 01:25:53.598 right? It's a niche audience that we make the podcast for. And that is you. 01:25:53.778 --> 01:25:54.758 Thank you for your support. 01:26:09.178 --> 01:26:13.298 Before we get out of here we're going to leave you with a couple of picks well 01:26:13.298 --> 01:26:18.398 a pick with a couple of links and uh wes you're speaking to my heart with an 01:26:18.398 --> 01:26:23.438 old school emulator this week And I honestly haven't had a lot of experience, 01:26:23.838 --> 01:26:26.438 not good experience at least, with the Nintendo 64 emulators. 01:26:26.658 --> 01:26:30.558 So you're bringing to the class today Gopher 64. Tell me about it. 01:26:31.278 --> 01:26:37.238 Yeah, I was chatting with my bro. We both love this era of gaming as well. 01:26:38.038 --> 01:26:41.798 And I guess he was trying out a few different emulators, had a problem with 01:26:41.798 --> 01:26:48.118 some of them, and had found Simple 64, which was supposed to be a very widely compatible emulator. 01:26:48.118 --> 01:26:50.958 So i took a look at that just wanted to go check 01:26:50.958 --> 01:26:54.498 out if it was open source could you could i find it and i noticed it was archived 01:26:54.498 --> 01:26:59.458 and at point and it said go check out go for 64 i don't know about simple 64 01:26:59.458 --> 01:27:03.818 but go for 64 when i went and searched it immediately popped up with linux support 01:27:03.818 --> 01:27:08.738 so i was super pleased to see that and now then i looked a little closer and, 01:27:09.198 --> 01:27:11.558 it's also a gpl rust app. 01:27:11.558 --> 01:27:12.738 Oh that's great. 01:27:12.738 --> 01:27:13.498 V3 yeah. 01:27:14.495 --> 01:27:19.475 So it's GPL3 built in Rust, but also very cool for this type of thing is it 01:27:19.475 --> 01:27:21.195 has a net play server as well. 01:27:21.495 --> 01:27:25.815 Yeah, it seems like it's pretty widely compatible so far. It's targeting like 01:27:25.815 --> 01:27:28.775 not crazy high specs needed to be able to play. 01:27:29.315 --> 01:27:32.975 They've got a Docker composer, really Podman, really. Look at the Podman. It's Podman. 01:27:33.135 --> 01:27:37.895 Podman, you pull this container and you get a little discoverable LAN server 01:27:37.895 --> 01:27:39.355 for running different games on. 01:27:39.515 --> 01:27:44.535 Yeah, and then it is also published as a flat pack. So pretty easy to get started and play. 01:27:44.635 --> 01:27:48.695 I was able to test out just playing a few ROMs and worked no problem. 01:27:49.015 --> 01:27:52.735 That's great. Now, this is, I think, is a nice in-between because what I'm using, 01:27:52.855 --> 01:27:55.955 and I've talked about it before on the show, is ROMM. ROMM? 01:27:56.335 --> 01:27:56.695 Yes. 01:27:56.835 --> 01:28:00.055 That's a web app that has a bunch of different emulators baked in, 01:28:00.175 --> 01:28:02.595 but they're not top-grade emulators. 01:28:02.735 --> 01:28:05.295 Like the N64 one's not great. 01:28:06.875 --> 01:28:10.795 The Super Nintendo one's fine, so I'm happy about that. so this is really nice 01:28:10.795 --> 01:28:12.995 especially with that netplay capability it's. 01:28:12.995 --> 01:28:16.935 Got xbox style controllers with a like a default mapping for those so those 01:28:16.935 --> 01:28:18.295 should work pretty much out of the box. 01:28:18.295 --> 01:28:23.875 Go for 64 i'd like also if anybody out there has any of their favorite favorite 01:28:23.875 --> 01:28:29.015 uh classic game emulators let me know i'm always i was just this weekend i was 01:28:29.015 --> 01:28:33.595 playing with my little rx whatever it is handheld game device yes i just every 01:28:33.595 --> 01:28:35.695 now that i'm in a mood for a classic game and. 01:28:35.695 --> 01:28:37.575 You know boost in what which ROM's your plan. 01:28:37.795 --> 01:28:41.735 Of course. Now, Wes, before we go, we got some pro tips for you. 01:28:41.955 --> 01:28:45.895 And it's actually, it's great to see more and more apps are supporting this now. 01:28:46.135 --> 01:28:51.255 Yeah, the magic of the podcast namespace from Podcasting 2.0. 01:28:51.475 --> 01:28:54.615 Yeah, we got transcripts and cloud chapters. 01:28:55.850 --> 01:29:01.870 And it's, I think, Podcast, what is it, Pocket Casts, and Apple Podcasts have 01:29:01.870 --> 01:29:04.770 just recently added that stuff. Of course, all the podcasting 2.0 apps as well. 01:29:04.770 --> 01:29:07.150 Well, of course, yeah, they are ahead of the game. But yeah, you know. 01:29:07.310 --> 01:29:07.810 It's spreading. 01:29:08.010 --> 01:29:12.490 More and more of your regular old podcasting clients are implementing some, 01:29:12.590 --> 01:29:15.510 maybe not all, maybe not as much as one, but some. 01:29:15.790 --> 01:29:19.110 And like, you know, once you have the namespace in your RSS feed, 01:29:19.330 --> 01:29:22.410 it makes it even easier to start using more of those features. 01:29:22.410 --> 01:29:26.010 And when you switch to a new app or when your app, your legacy app gets these 01:29:26.010 --> 01:29:30.870 features, we have been putting transcripts and chapters in since episode 600. 01:29:30.870 --> 01:29:35.270 So you're going to get a massive back catalog now of weeks and weeks of this 01:29:35.270 --> 01:29:37.770 stuff, which is going to be fun, I think, when we find different ways to use it. 01:29:38.090 --> 01:29:42.750 So that's available to you. And then probably the biggest resource is going to be our website. 01:29:42.990 --> 01:29:45.770 We'll have links to everything we talked about, the projects we mentioned. 01:29:46.010 --> 01:29:50.890 All of that stuff is linked over at linuxunplugged.com slash 643. 01:29:50.890 --> 01:29:55.230 That's where you're also going to find our contact page, our membership stuff, all of that. 01:29:55.390 --> 01:29:58.910 And of course, there's only a couple of more live streams left this year. 01:30:02.430 --> 01:30:06.390 So we would love to have you join us live. We do it on a Sunday. 01:30:06.590 --> 01:30:09.950 We call it a Tuesday on a Sunday. It's our special thing. We start at 10 a.m. 01:30:10.050 --> 01:30:12.890 Pacific, 1 p.m. Eastern over at jblive.tv. 01:30:13.150 --> 01:30:17.230 Or you can put it in your audio streamer of choice at jblive.fm. 01:30:17.370 --> 01:30:20.950 We have a mumber room that's going during all of that. Our LUP plug gets together 01:30:20.950 --> 01:30:22.730 before and after the show and hangs out with us. 01:30:22.870 --> 01:30:26.030 You can also join that mumble room yourself. It's available to anyone. 01:30:26.370 --> 01:30:30.570 And all the resources you might want over at linuxunplugged.com. 01:30:30.850 --> 01:30:34.230 Thank you so much for joining us on this week's episode of Your Unplugged Program. 01:30:34.950 --> 01:30:39.830 And we will see you right back here next Tuesday, as in Sunday. 01:30:40.650 --> 01:30:42.190 Eh, eh, eh, eh, eh.
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