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Have Your Bot Call My Bot

Feb 1, 2026
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We stress tested open source AI agents this week. What actually held up, and where it falls apart. Plus Brent's $20 Wi-Fi upgrade.

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Transcript

WEBVTT 00:00:11.261 --> 00:00:15.921 Hello, friends, and welcome back to your weekly Linux talk show. My name is Chris. 00:00:16.081 --> 00:00:16.721 My name is Wes. 00:00:16.921 --> 00:00:17.521 And my name is Brent. 00:00:18.141 --> 00:00:21.781 Hello, gentlemen. Coming up on the show today, we've been stress testing open 00:00:21.781 --> 00:00:23.481 source AI agents all week. 00:00:23.881 --> 00:00:27.521 From OpenClaw to projects you probably never heard of. We'll talk about what 00:00:27.521 --> 00:00:31.381 actually held up, where things kind of fall apart, and what is definitely hype. 00:00:31.601 --> 00:00:34.101 And then a few surprises we didn't see coming. 00:00:34.341 --> 00:00:38.661 Plus, Brent has a $25 Wi-Fi upgrade you're going to absolutely want to steal. 00:00:39.201 --> 00:00:41.881 Stay tuned for that. And then we're going to round it all out with some great 00:00:41.881 --> 00:00:43.321 boosts, some picks, and a lot more. 00:00:43.441 --> 00:00:47.901 So before we get to that, time-appropriate greetings to our virtual lug. Hello, Mumble Room. 00:00:48.881 --> 00:00:51.461 Hello. Hello. Hello, Brent. 00:00:52.001 --> 00:00:53.761 Hello. Sounding good? 00:00:53.941 --> 00:00:53.961 That's true. 00:00:53.961 --> 00:00:56.521 Hello, everybody. Hello, everybody. In the quiet listening, too. 00:00:56.581 --> 00:00:57.701 That Mumble Room is always going. 00:00:58.761 --> 00:00:59.781 JupiterBroadcasting.com slash 00:00:59.781 --> 00:01:03.741 mumble. And a good morning to our friends over at Defined Networking. 00:01:03.841 --> 00:01:08.421 Defined.net slash unplugged. Go check out Nebula, a decentralized VPN built 00:01:08.421 --> 00:01:09.941 on the open-source Nebula platform. 00:01:10.241 --> 00:01:13.641 We absolutely love it and are using it in more and more ways every single day. 00:01:13.781 --> 00:01:17.041 If you go to defined.net slash unplugged, you get 100 hosts for free, 00:01:17.161 --> 00:01:19.081 no credit card required. 00:01:19.321 --> 00:01:22.961 Now, this is really the actual difference. Their free tier doesn't exist just 00:01:22.961 --> 00:01:25.521 to funnel you into a VC-funded SaaS roadmap. 00:01:25.941 --> 00:01:29.781 It really is something that you have full governance over. You can go from managed 00:01:29.781 --> 00:01:31.421 to completely self-hosted, vice versa. 00:01:31.661 --> 00:01:34.481 You own the network. You own the identity. You own the infrastructure. 00:01:35.321 --> 00:01:39.601 You don't have to worry about a control plane going down, any of that. 00:01:39.601 --> 00:01:43.101 And Nebula's decentralized design means there isn't a single point of failure. 00:01:43.261 --> 00:01:47.561 And with their managed Nebula product, they can take care of all of the bits 00:01:47.561 --> 00:01:50.161 for you. It is incredibly scalable. 00:01:51.083 --> 00:01:54.283 One of the things I appreciate on being on a very limited connection right now, 00:01:54.443 --> 00:02:00.163 I'm back on LTE for a bit, and Nebula is so smart about the way it uses network traffic. 00:02:00.583 --> 00:02:06.603 And it's an order of magnitude difference between some of the other Mesh VPN systems and Nebula. 00:02:06.703 --> 00:02:09.083 It's an order of magnitude difference in the efficiency. I'm very, 00:02:09.183 --> 00:02:12.283 very impressed. And you will be too. Go check it out. 100 hosts for free. 00:02:12.523 --> 00:02:14.603 No credit card. No lock-in. 00:02:15.003 --> 00:02:17.703 Defined.net slash unplugged. 00:02:20.336 --> 00:02:24.116 Just around the corner, 32 days until Planet Nix and scale. 00:02:24.516 --> 00:02:29.596 That means 25 days until Brent needs to be on the road and four more Linux Tuesdays 00:02:29.596 --> 00:02:32.696 on a Sunday before we are in Pasadena, California. 00:02:32.956 --> 00:02:36.536 Why is my heart racing so much? Why am I feeling so stressed? What's the deal? 00:02:37.376 --> 00:02:41.056 You know, just focus on how awesome Planet Nix is going to be this year. 00:02:41.396 --> 00:02:45.276 This is the, I mean, they've got a vision for it. Phlox has really figured it 00:02:45.276 --> 00:02:46.476 out. They know how to do this. 00:02:46.876 --> 00:02:51.356 The first one's under their belt. They're the perfect just organizer for this 00:02:51.356 --> 00:02:53.676 exact kind of event because they get the community. 00:02:53.876 --> 00:02:55.836 They get the business side. They get the builder side. Like, 00:02:55.936 --> 00:03:00.356 it's just chef's kiss. I think it's going to be a good one this year. The agenda is live. 00:03:00.496 --> 00:03:03.356 Yeah, that's right. I'll be giving a talk. Our buddy Alex is giving a talk. 00:03:03.876 --> 00:03:08.536 There's a lot of nice looking talks, including something about Nick's Meets 00:03:08.536 --> 00:03:12.496 Web Assembly and Nick's BSD. What's that? 00:03:12.836 --> 00:03:16.196 Oh, OK. Yeah, our plan of Nick's coverage is supported by Phlox. 00:03:16.296 --> 00:03:19.276 And they're going to be there. We're going to see them. They're focused on making 00:03:19.276 --> 00:03:21.396 reproducible dev environments actually usable. 00:03:21.656 --> 00:03:25.096 You should check out Phlox. It's the second year they're sending us, and it's awesome. 00:03:25.216 --> 00:03:30.296 And, of course, at the same time, Scale23x is going on. You do need to register 00:03:30.296 --> 00:03:32.416 for Scale to go to either Planet Nix or Scale. 00:03:32.636 --> 00:03:37.076 Use our promo code UNPLG, U-N-P-L-G, to get 40% off that. 00:03:37.396 --> 00:03:40.396 Can't wait for Scale. We'll have a meetup. Meetup.com slash Jupiter Broadcasting. 00:03:40.436 --> 00:03:44.536 Our meetup page is up. It's a placeholder, but it's there. Huge. Very excited. 00:03:46.016 --> 00:03:49.276 I think it's going to be great, guys. It's been a while since I've been in nice, 00:03:49.396 --> 00:03:51.216 sunny Pasadena. I think it's going to be beautiful. 00:03:51.476 --> 00:03:54.996 We always have a great crew down there. And I think it's going to be a great 00:03:54.996 --> 00:03:56.136 Planet Nix and a great scale. 00:03:56.276 --> 00:03:58.016 So many wonderful nerds all in one place. 00:03:58.356 --> 00:04:02.016 Such a rare thing. So I hope you can make it. Even if you can't make it to the 00:04:02.016 --> 00:04:04.836 events, but you're in the area, meetup.com slash Jupiter Broadcasting. 00:04:04.836 --> 00:04:06.896 Let us know so we can let the venue know. 00:04:10.584 --> 00:04:15.744 Well, Brentley, Wes and I have been hearing bits and pieces of you solving Wi-Fi 00:04:15.744 --> 00:04:19.764 problems, which often starts with something not working right. 00:04:19.984 --> 00:04:23.524 Yeah, our ears are burning and our switches are burning. We want more deets. 00:04:23.724 --> 00:04:25.424 We have to imagine this has turned quite in the story. 00:04:26.364 --> 00:04:30.884 Yes. Well, networking is not my favorite thing. So it only ever starts with some kind of complaint. 00:04:31.284 --> 00:04:34.604 And the complaint this time around, I've been spending more time with my parents 00:04:34.604 --> 00:04:39.744 and at my parents' place. And my mother was like, hey, I can't really get Wi-Fi 00:04:39.744 --> 00:04:43.124 like lazing in bed on a Sunday morning from my bedroom. I was like, what? 00:04:43.644 --> 00:04:46.904 You're only saying this now you've had the same like Wi-Fi set up for the last 00:04:46.904 --> 00:04:48.744 five, six years, something like that. 00:04:48.824 --> 00:04:51.364 Is the is the old router pretty far from the bedroom? 00:04:51.704 --> 00:04:55.664 It's exactly at the opposite end of the place. So they're on the main floor, 00:04:55.864 --> 00:05:00.444 you know, at the total end of the house. And the router is in the basement at 00:05:00.444 --> 00:05:01.564 the opposite end of the house. 00:05:01.744 --> 00:05:05.144 So it kind of makes sense. I just never knew it was an issue. 00:05:05.144 --> 00:05:09.404 I bet you've got one of those sturdy, well-built Canadian homes, too. 00:05:10.064 --> 00:05:11.404 Yes, the window-randed ones. 00:05:11.404 --> 00:05:12.504 Not thin walls. Right. 00:05:13.624 --> 00:05:18.724 So I never realized it was an issue, but like, this should be solvable, right? 00:05:19.144 --> 00:05:26.864 So I dove into their router, which is a Linksys EA8100V2, which they got a little 00:05:26.864 --> 00:05:30.684 while ago to like boost Wi-Fi and stuff. They don't need anything fancy. 00:05:30.784 --> 00:05:35.344 They're not doing any networking stuff that's fancy. This is just like a couple 00:05:35.344 --> 00:05:39.684 of cell phones on the network. They have like a thermostat, IOT device. 00:05:39.944 --> 00:05:47.484 They've got a TV and I have a crazy, you know, put together NAS running off 00:05:47.484 --> 00:05:50.784 an old think pad that like does backups for them on the local network. 00:05:50.904 --> 00:05:53.904 But so that's not huge requirements for them. 00:05:54.324 --> 00:05:57.264 Probably the biggest requirements is whenever I show up, I do a bunch of stuff, 00:05:57.424 --> 00:06:01.664 but like they don't need super modern wifi speeds or anything like that. 00:06:01.664 --> 00:06:06.184 They just need coverage and reliability, basically. 00:06:06.464 --> 00:06:10.224 So I decided this week to solve this problem for them. 00:06:11.024 --> 00:06:15.204 Even though I hesitate to play with networking stuff because it's always a rabbit hole. 00:06:16.144 --> 00:06:19.184 And I dove into their router, which was just running the stock firmware. 00:06:19.244 --> 00:06:22.584 And I thought, OK, I can optimize at least, you know, some Wi-Fi channels, 00:06:22.864 --> 00:06:28.024 look at some what the neighbors are doing and try to choose appropriate settings. 00:06:28.184 --> 00:06:32.084 And I discovered that their stock firmware was like from 2022. 00:06:32.444 --> 00:06:34.584 So I thought, sure enough, I could just update this thing. 00:06:34.724 --> 00:06:36.444 Oh, yeah. That might be an easy win right there. 00:06:36.544 --> 00:06:37.704 You know, security is important, right? 00:06:37.704 --> 00:06:40.904 Yeah, and an update. Maybe there's an improvement in how it manages radios or 00:06:40.904 --> 00:06:41.824 something like that. Who knows? 00:06:41.944 --> 00:06:45.784 It is so great when you do just update something and it performs better and you can just be done. 00:06:45.924 --> 00:06:48.284 It probably doesn't happen as often as I'd like to hope it does. 00:06:48.324 --> 00:06:50.664 No, but that it's happened at all. It clearly sticks once it does. 00:06:50.764 --> 00:06:53.284 In this case, I was really hoping this would be just an easy fix. 00:06:53.664 --> 00:06:57.884 But it turns out, you know, of course, as it goes, this thing is end of life already. 00:06:58.024 --> 00:07:01.624 So the last update that will ever exist was back in 2022. 00:07:02.264 --> 00:07:09.304 Oh, so the rabbit hole shows up and I thought, well, I could I install open WRT on this thing? 00:07:10.044 --> 00:07:16.584 You boys had some adventures, what, two weeks ago trying to use the open WRT one. 00:07:16.964 --> 00:07:17.144 The one. 00:07:17.304 --> 00:07:22.504 Yeah. And you were a bit hesitant. You started using that to solve the clinic 00:07:22.504 --> 00:07:25.684 networking, but you eventually moved away from that, right? 00:07:26.164 --> 00:07:29.484 Well, we're still using it for Wi-Fi. It is a great little device for that. 00:07:29.484 --> 00:07:33.084 We were just having some issues with the radios that are in there, 00:07:33.224 --> 00:07:37.084 and if you're connecting to another Wi-Fi network, the performance was pretty 00:07:37.084 --> 00:07:40.244 bad if you're sort of daisy-chaining Wi-Fi networks for what we were doing. 00:07:40.644 --> 00:07:46.304 I never tried kind of beyond that, but when we just put it into a general AP, it's been fantastic. 00:07:46.964 --> 00:07:52.844 Nice. So I thought I would kind of lean on your experiences and dive right in. 00:07:53.024 --> 00:07:57.144 So sure enough, this thing is really well-supported on OpenWRT. 00:07:57.144 --> 00:07:59.984 The community seems to have this well supported. 00:08:00.384 --> 00:08:03.384 And the flashing process is also very, very simple. 00:08:03.804 --> 00:08:05.564 Just use the stock. 00:08:06.837 --> 00:08:10.097 Firmware updater and use an open wrt image 00:08:10.097 --> 00:08:12.897 and there you go that's all you need so sure enough i went 00:08:12.897 --> 00:08:15.717 and did that and nothing happened and uh it 00:08:15.717 --> 00:08:19.617 just kind of complained and i tried for way 00:08:19.617 --> 00:08:22.517 embarrassingly too long to solve that problem 00:08:22.517 --> 00:08:25.657 because i really now wanted to get the open wrt on 00:08:25.657 --> 00:08:28.577 this thing i like started setting up 00:08:28.577 --> 00:08:31.557 a tftp server to like send the 00:08:31.557 --> 00:08:34.877 image towards this thing but i didn't know the default like 00:08:34.877 --> 00:08:37.637 the the recovery ip address so i was trying all 00:08:37.637 --> 00:08:40.397 sorts of anyways i lost a lot of time and then 00:08:40.397 --> 00:08:43.477 i saw some note that just said hey just reboot 00:08:43.477 --> 00:08:46.737 the writer and try again sure enough i tried again worked totally fine through 00:08:46.737 --> 00:08:51.057 the the stock firmware updater how often does that happen that was both very 00:08:51.057 --> 00:08:57.037 frustrating and also very rewarding so i did get it installed and uh i have 00:08:57.037 --> 00:09:02.657 to say it's great as always i have used a lot of these open source 00:09:02.937 --> 00:09:07.377 router firmwares for the last, I don't know, several decades. 00:09:07.377 --> 00:09:11.597 I'm wondering where you guys started, but I remember the first one was I installed 00:09:11.597 --> 00:09:16.897 a DDWRT on an old Linksys WRT 54G. You remember those things? 00:09:17.257 --> 00:09:18.137 Oh yeah. Oh yeah. 00:09:18.237 --> 00:09:22.497 And brought those back to life for like another 10 years. So that was my first 00:09:22.497 --> 00:09:26.717 experience a long time ago, but I remember like tomato was a piece of software I used as well. 00:09:26.717 --> 00:09:31.217 So I had had good experiences with them, but nothing too recent. 00:09:31.217 --> 00:09:35.677 Probably the most recent was I took my parents' old router that they replaced 00:09:35.677 --> 00:09:38.217 and set it up at home with the Starlink. 00:09:39.097 --> 00:09:43.017 So instead of using the Starlink as a router, used OpenWrt in there, and that was good. 00:09:44.244 --> 00:09:46.844 Actually, I think the Starlink might run a fork of OpenWRT. 00:09:47.164 --> 00:09:48.024 Ah, right. 00:09:48.364 --> 00:09:53.264 I might be wrong on that, but it is a Linux variant. Yeah, I've really, 00:09:53.444 --> 00:09:55.464 really liked these in the past when I used them. 00:09:55.624 --> 00:10:01.784 It's been many years since I've actually gave it a real visit until the OpenWRT won. 00:10:02.224 --> 00:10:07.804 And so I wasn't really sure how viable it still was to flash these older links. 00:10:07.924 --> 00:10:10.644 I thought maybe that was a bygone era that maybe they'd prevented it. 00:10:10.644 --> 00:10:15.284 Well, I know some of the recent firmware are much larger. So if you're looking 00:10:15.284 --> 00:10:18.504 at a really old device, they just don't have the storage for it. 00:10:18.904 --> 00:10:20.984 Do they do more now? Are they doing more functions? 00:10:21.304 --> 00:10:25.504 Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Many more functions, which I will totally describe in just a moment. 00:10:25.744 --> 00:10:26.004 Yeah. 00:10:26.164 --> 00:10:30.704 But I have to say, one of my hesitations was that the GUI in OpenWrt, 00:10:30.764 --> 00:10:36.284 and you boys touched on this in Linux Unplugged 650, is a bit, 00:10:36.484 --> 00:10:39.344 I don't know how you would describe it. but I would describe it sort of like, 00:10:42.099 --> 00:10:48.279 allows you to do a lot but you need to also understand what's happening so it 00:10:48.279 --> 00:10:53.279 feels like a little bit more leaning towards commercial router firmware so you 00:10:53.279 --> 00:10:58.119 can accomplish like now with just a regular home router i can do all sorts of 00:10:58.119 --> 00:10:59.219 things i could never do before. 00:10:59.219 --> 00:11:00.199 Right which. 00:11:00.199 --> 00:11:05.619 Is amazing but i also find the gui to be confusing that way because i'm not a network expert right. 00:11:05.619 --> 00:11:09.499 I suppose i also find to me i don't really know how to describe it but it feels 00:11:09.499 --> 00:11:13.339 like i go to multiple places to get information that seems like it could be 00:11:13.339 --> 00:11:15.539 consolidated into one screen yeah. 00:11:15.539 --> 00:11:19.399 Okay it is that feeling of like because you've seen that it means you don't 00:11:19.399 --> 00:11:22.679 have a clean mapping of where do i go for this like okay well i got some of 00:11:22.679 --> 00:11:26.019 that when i looked at the actual physical card info but then the other part 00:11:26.019 --> 00:11:28.559 was in the layer that just did kind of the wi-fi protocol. 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:29.259 Yes and. 00:11:29.259 --> 00:11:32.539 Those are not on the same page or even neighboring pages they're under two different sub. 00:11:32.539 --> 00:11:37.699 Menus i think if i were if i were to keep working on the regular and had to 00:11:37.699 --> 00:11:41.279 make frequent config changes i would probably just go look at the config file 00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:43.999 because i know and i know they have a pretty clean syntax too on the command 00:11:43.999 --> 00:11:47.779 line and that might just be the way to go it's true but what happens is i use 00:11:47.779 --> 00:11:50.559 these once every few years and so i just stick to the gui. 00:11:50.559 --> 00:11:54.919 One of the big unlocks for me this week was that i decided to just lean pretty 00:11:54.919 --> 00:12:00.399 heavily on having ai help me navigate the gui and also help me to optimize the 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:02.879 settings for this particular hardware. 00:12:03.439 --> 00:12:06.699 You didn't find that like its information was so out of date that it was sending 00:12:06.699 --> 00:12:08.499 you to places that It didn't exist in the GUI, huh? 00:12:08.619 --> 00:12:13.739 No, I was actually pleasantly surprised in that it was also giving me a lot 00:12:13.739 --> 00:12:17.599 of information about what community members were finding worked really well 00:12:17.599 --> 00:12:18.919 on particular hardware. 00:12:19.119 --> 00:12:19.599 Oh, good. 00:12:19.779 --> 00:12:22.279 So because this piece of hardware, I guess, is popular enough, 00:12:22.279 --> 00:12:27.459 I was able to get really good information on how compatible OpenWRT was on this 00:12:27.459 --> 00:12:33.539 particular device in the first place, and also like optimal Wi-Fi settings for that device, 00:12:34.239 --> 00:12:36.419 and also for this region, 00:12:37.557 --> 00:12:42.477 And also considering the other devices on the network, what would be realistic 00:12:42.477 --> 00:12:46.877 settings to really have the network be as reliable as possible, 00:12:46.997 --> 00:12:50.397 not necessarily as fast as possible, because that's, for my parents, 00:12:50.497 --> 00:12:51.917 not one of their requirements, right? 00:12:52.097 --> 00:12:56.397 So I noticed immediately the network was much more stable. 00:12:56.657 --> 00:13:01.197 In previous weeks, it would drop off at least once while we were doing Linux 00:13:01.197 --> 00:13:06.557 Unplugged every Sunday. So it has been much more stable from what I can tell 00:13:06.557 --> 00:13:11.637 and also has better just Wi-Fi coverage in general. 00:13:12.548 --> 00:13:21.108 But I didn't think like that was enough. And so I decided to take this to the next logical step. 00:13:21.468 --> 00:13:22.648 This is the part where it does more. 00:13:23.648 --> 00:13:27.828 Well, I wanted to give them like rock solid coverage. 00:13:28.708 --> 00:13:32.668 And I also wanted to see what else this router can do. 00:13:33.048 --> 00:13:38.148 Because all of a sudden I can like do VLANs for their IoT devices that I could 00:13:38.148 --> 00:13:39.628 never do with the stock firmware. 00:13:39.788 --> 00:13:39.928 Right. 00:13:39.928 --> 00:13:44.628 I used AI to help me a little bit too, just to optimize the security of this thing. 00:13:44.808 --> 00:13:48.968 So including disabling packages that would, that I wasn't using basically. 00:13:49.248 --> 00:13:51.608 So reducing the security footprint. 00:13:52.128 --> 00:13:57.748 But in that process, I kind of discovered that I could also have whole network 00:13:57.748 --> 00:13:59.468 ad blocking on this thing. 00:13:59.648 --> 00:14:02.748 So instead of having, you know, a dedicated device with PyHole, 00:14:02.868 --> 00:14:06.448 which we all love, that requires, you know, some configuration. 00:14:06.468 --> 00:14:09.388 It requires a device. it requires you know 00:14:09.388 --> 00:14:12.248 and this is just my parents place but i could write on the router 00:14:12.248 --> 00:14:15.528 which i never knew about open wrt so maybe other people 00:14:15.528 --> 00:14:18.448 knew this i did not uh but this 00:14:18.448 --> 00:14:23.168 is a beautiful thing i was able to basically get in a bit of info about what 00:14:23.168 --> 00:14:28.828 was the best ad blocking software to install because there are a couple packages 00:14:28.828 --> 00:14:36.788 you could choose from actually in open wrt and And I decided to go with something called AdBlock Fast, 00:14:37.228 --> 00:14:44.348 which is a version of AdBlock that is specifically high performance tuned for 00:14:44.348 --> 00:14:49.308 OpenWRT on these kind of devices, on these lower end devices. 00:14:49.308 --> 00:14:54.548 So you don't have like a dedicated high end router, for instance. 00:14:54.928 --> 00:14:59.448 These are just meant for the home off the shelf at Best Buy devices. 00:15:01.168 --> 00:15:05.048 But what it does is, I think, kind of really nice. So it uses DNS mask, 00:15:05.248 --> 00:15:08.208 but you can also use smart DNS or Unbound if you want. 00:15:08.388 --> 00:15:14.148 And it does parallel downloading and processing of allow lists and block lists. 00:15:14.408 --> 00:15:16.788 And it does it one time on startup. 00:15:17.308 --> 00:15:20.508 And then from there, it's not an always running process. 00:15:20.568 --> 00:15:25.948 It just uses DNS mask to have a pretty low footprint ad blocker. 00:15:26.588 --> 00:15:30.128 so it's really not consuming much memory ongoing 00:15:30.128 --> 00:15:33.288 only while it's processing and i have 00:15:33.288 --> 00:15:36.848 to say haven't noticed any downside 00:15:36.848 --> 00:15:40.868 to performance on this thing it doesn't get hot it processes actually quite 00:15:40.868 --> 00:15:46.668 quickly you do have to do a few things manually so for instance i had to install 00:15:46.668 --> 00:15:52.568 a few other packages to get this to run so i was able to just ssh into the router 00:15:52.568 --> 00:15:54.428 and install those which was very easy, 00:15:54.608 --> 00:16:00.768 and also set up a cron job just to update those block lists once a week. 00:16:01.408 --> 00:16:06.468 Some downsides is it doesn't have like a super fancy dashboard like piehole 00:16:06.468 --> 00:16:10.028 would, for instance, and it doesn't keep track of stats. 00:16:10.028 --> 00:16:14.048 So it's not going to give you an idea of what it has blocked and how many times 00:16:14.048 --> 00:16:19.688 those kind of stats, but the trade-off is super fast and it just sits there 00:16:19.688 --> 00:16:20.888 and it just works and it's running. 00:16:20.948 --> 00:16:23.588 Yeah, on a little router, like it's just running on that tiny little router 00:16:23.588 --> 00:16:28.808 yeah that is so cool such a separate box no yeah really wow so. 00:16:28.808 --> 00:16:31.868 For this situation where it's just for a family member who doesn't want extra 00:16:31.868 --> 00:16:34.908 hardware or doesn't want to troubleshoot another device or anything like that 00:16:34.908 --> 00:16:36.568 this is a lovely solution. 00:16:36.568 --> 00:16:41.468 Now i know uh kind of the other thing that made this really kind of great is 00:16:41.468 --> 00:16:43.088 there's besides that being a 00:16:43.088 --> 00:16:45.428 great unlock for the whole family where it doesn't even really bother them, 00:16:46.225 --> 00:16:49.025 This hardware isn't particularly expensive either. 00:16:49.285 --> 00:16:51.645 Not at all. So this is hardware. 00:16:51.885 --> 00:16:52.705 You could do this for a budget. 00:16:53.005 --> 00:16:59.205 This is hardware they had. So it's $0. But if you wanted to find a device that 00:16:59.205 --> 00:17:00.965 could run OpenWRT, because it's 00:17:00.965 --> 00:17:04.345 not every device, they have a hardware compatibility list you can look at. 00:17:04.885 --> 00:17:09.705 Well, I started looking at like used sites, just local classifieds, 00:17:09.805 --> 00:17:11.725 like Facebook Marketplace, those kind of. 00:17:11.725 --> 00:17:16.205 And you can get a device that's, you know, not blazing fast, 00:17:16.525 --> 00:17:21.865 modern, but is like a generation back sort of deal for $20, $10. 00:17:22.105 --> 00:17:24.745 There's one here, like a D-Link DIR 895. 00:17:25.345 --> 00:17:28.325 It's like AC 1750. So like not terrible. 00:17:28.525 --> 00:17:28.665 Yeah. 00:17:28.765 --> 00:17:31.025 So for a family member, listed for $10. 00:17:31.325 --> 00:17:32.885 Ten bucks. Ten bucks. 00:17:33.345 --> 00:17:40.185 And that's perfectly compatible with OpenWRT. And I found several others just like browsing quickly. 00:17:41.045 --> 00:17:47.525 so i decided to go crazy and i bought well i ended up at a sketchy part of town 00:17:47.525 --> 00:17:52.385 yesterday and bought another router for 20 off someone who's actually really 00:17:52.385 --> 00:17:56.085 nice nice okay and decided to, 00:17:56.885 --> 00:18:02.945 use that to deploy basically an access point uh at the other end of the house for them so oh. 00:18:02.945 --> 00:18:04.905 Great yeah there you go increased coverage. 00:18:04.905 --> 00:18:09.225 Exactly so i know that the wi-fi got better just by installing OpenWRT on their 00:18:09.225 --> 00:18:11.105 router, but I wasn't going to move their router and everything. 00:18:11.325 --> 00:18:15.665 And so I wanted to make sure 100% that their network was good at the other end of the house. 00:18:16.365 --> 00:18:20.265 So I had, they have a bunch of Ethernet runs in this place already. 00:18:20.265 --> 00:18:25.125 I just was able to plug in, well, I got this idea before I actually set up the 00:18:25.125 --> 00:18:30.105 meeting. So I used my little travel router that is out of the van since the 00:18:30.105 --> 00:18:32.245 van doesn't have any power anymore because I had to pull the batteries. 00:18:32.465 --> 00:18:37.725 But I use that just as a proof of concept. It's a GLINet router. 00:18:37.945 --> 00:18:39.085 It's an industrial version. 00:18:39.185 --> 00:18:39.405 Yeah. 00:18:39.785 --> 00:18:43.805 But it runs OpenWrt under the hood just with a GLINet interface. 00:18:44.125 --> 00:18:50.805 So you can get to the exact same OpenWrt GUI interface on that device as well. 00:18:51.910 --> 00:18:55.030 which made me realize it's this is actually kind 00:18:55.030 --> 00:18:57.850 of wonderful so now i'm running open wrt in many different 00:18:57.850 --> 00:19:01.090 places in many different families and friends homes 00:19:01.090 --> 00:19:04.790 and even on a very specific 00:19:04.790 --> 00:19:07.850 industrial router that i have for the van specifically 00:19:07.850 --> 00:19:10.590 because it bounce around gets really hot and they're all 00:19:10.590 --> 00:19:14.310 running the same interface so as a consolidated experience 00:19:14.310 --> 00:19:17.190 for me managing networks this is actually a 00:19:17.190 --> 00:19:20.270 really nice perk as well and so 00:19:20.270 --> 00:19:23.270 for 20 or 10 00:19:23.270 --> 00:19:26.030 because you can always bargain and one of them is listed as 10 00:19:26.030 --> 00:19:28.710 so maybe i can get it for five yeah i have an 00:19:28.710 --> 00:19:32.490 access point set up that is not 00:19:32.490 --> 00:19:35.350 you know it is a router it's meant as 00:19:35.350 --> 00:19:38.930 a router for hardware but it's just set up as an access point because uh 00:19:38.930 --> 00:19:41.910 open wrt allows you to do that and it's super fast 00:19:41.910 --> 00:19:44.870 and i have both just advertising the 00:19:44.870 --> 00:19:50.010 same networks and i have had this set up as a prototype with that um travel 00:19:50.010 --> 00:19:55.250 router for about a week now and everybody's devices just moves between the routers 00:19:55.250 --> 00:19:59.330 without even knowing it everything's been super stable no problems at all and 00:19:59.330 --> 00:20:03.470 i've been super impressed so i gotta say for 20 bucks you should maybe think 00:20:03.470 --> 00:20:04.630 about upgrading your network. 00:20:04.630 --> 00:20:08.670 That was worth it that was worth dealing with the networking that you don't 00:20:08.670 --> 00:20:11.730 like to get there and that's something you're going to be able to use for a 00:20:11.730 --> 00:20:15.550 long time you know so that's great brand very nice. 00:20:15.550 --> 00:20:20.390 Yeah i feel like the number of residential routers that are always on used websites 00:20:20.390 --> 00:20:24.450 never ends so uh it's just going to be a solution into the future as well so 00:20:24.450 --> 00:20:27.090 upgrades probably about twenty dollars too. 00:20:30.615 --> 00:20:33.015 Well, I do want to say thank you to our members and our boosters. 00:20:33.175 --> 00:20:37.775 This is the birthday episode, 20 years of podcasting, over 12 years for Linux Unplugged. 00:20:38.215 --> 00:20:41.635 And we'll get to the boost segment to read some of the birthday messages. 00:20:41.635 --> 00:20:44.555 But I want to thank everybody who sent in some support, either through a membership 00:20:44.555 --> 00:20:47.635 or a boost. It means a lot. 00:20:48.055 --> 00:20:52.335 Normally, this spot would be for an advertiser. Right now, it's for you as an 00:20:52.335 --> 00:20:54.175 opportunity for me to really say thank you. 00:20:54.315 --> 00:20:57.235 If you've got a company or a product you'd like to get in front of the world's 00:20:57.235 --> 00:21:01.355 best and largest Linux audience, shoot me an email, chris at jupiterbroadcasting.com. 00:21:01.795 --> 00:21:05.995 This would be a great audience, and I think it'd be pretty cool to feature something from the community. 00:21:06.235 --> 00:21:09.975 And thank you, members and boosters, for making this possible. 00:21:20.833 --> 00:21:25.573 Well, unless you've had your head buried in the sand, you've probably seen everyone's 00:21:25.573 --> 00:21:29.013 talking about open source AI agents this week. 00:21:29.193 --> 00:21:34.773 And we'll get into the hubbub. But first, as usual, our super intelligent audience 00:21:34.773 --> 00:21:38.093 is way ahead of the curb. So we have a special guest. 00:21:38.253 --> 00:21:40.873 Way ahead of the curb. Abe, welcome to the Unplugged program. 00:21:41.173 --> 00:21:43.273 Nice to have you join us in the mumble room. Thank you. 00:21:43.533 --> 00:21:43.913 Hello, hello. 00:21:44.193 --> 00:21:48.173 Hello. So what got our attention and why I asked you to come on the show this 00:21:48.173 --> 00:21:50.473 week is you've been posting our community updates. 00:21:51.133 --> 00:21:55.553 I'm not even sure what to call it. Maybe an agent orchestration swarm that you've 00:21:55.553 --> 00:21:58.853 set up. Is that the right description? Could you explain it to us a little bit? 00:21:59.073 --> 00:22:04.513 Sure, absolutely. So effectively, what I wanted to do was to have a layer of 00:22:04.513 --> 00:22:07.453 semi-intelligent agents between me and my home lab. 00:22:07.453 --> 00:22:11.813 So I don't have to interact with it as much because ultimately what I realized 00:22:11.813 --> 00:22:15.953 after services kept growing is that, you know, after a while, 00:22:16.073 --> 00:22:16.973 it kind of becomes a chore. 00:22:17.173 --> 00:22:19.033 Yeah, it's a lot. Yeah. I'm kind of there myself. 00:22:20.093 --> 00:22:24.953 So effectively, what I wanted to do was, hey, I don't want to upgrade everything myself. 00:22:24.953 --> 00:22:29.013 I don't want to take a look at the logs myself. I don't want to debug everything myself. 00:22:29.013 --> 00:22:32.733 So I would rather have something that I can just ask. For example, 00:22:33.693 --> 00:22:39.933 the easiest win is my partner is watching Jellefin, something gets messed up, 00:22:40.213 --> 00:22:42.113 a show starts stuttering or something. 00:22:42.373 --> 00:22:45.593 She can just ask one of the age, like, hey, I was watching this at X minute. 00:22:46.353 --> 00:22:49.033 It suddenly started stuttering. Can you take a look? 00:22:49.253 --> 00:22:49.753 And it does. 00:22:49.773 --> 00:22:51.393 Goes to Excel, looks at the logs. 00:22:52.279 --> 00:22:56.379 It does the MPEG magic and, you know, reports back to her. 00:22:56.719 --> 00:23:00.459 So my understanding, though, is you're not doing this with like one agent, 00:23:00.699 --> 00:23:02.199 right? You're doing this with multiple agents? 00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:07.939 Yes. So what happens is that at the beginning, only one ape gets spawned. 00:23:08.379 --> 00:23:13.019 And its first job is to figure out and map my entire network. 00:23:13.299 --> 00:23:19.639 And then it suggests like, hey, there are further apes that should be used for X or Y or Z domain. 00:23:20.219 --> 00:23:24.879 So effectively, my apes are stewards of their own domains. 00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:28.659 For example, I have one specifically for my media server and ZFS pool. 00:23:29.179 --> 00:23:34.499 I have another that is stewarding my critical services on, say, Proxmox and whatnot. 00:23:34.719 --> 00:23:36.919 So you have them kind of along like domain expertise. 00:23:37.259 --> 00:23:38.199 Yes, effectively, yes. 00:23:38.499 --> 00:23:41.239 So the part that I guess is probably obvious on every listener's mind right 00:23:41.239 --> 00:23:45.139 now is, are these using commercial LMs? 00:23:45.259 --> 00:23:48.819 Are there security implications there? Are these local LMs? How's that part 00:23:48.819 --> 00:23:53.759 powered? Because when you say agent, it's really like it's a mission-focused, LLM-powered bot. 00:23:54.299 --> 00:23:57.839 Yeah. Well, I kind of don't like the term agent, but this is what everybody 00:23:57.839 --> 00:23:59.139 has kind of decided to go with. 00:23:59.379 --> 00:24:00.239 Yeah, I agree. 00:24:00.439 --> 00:24:07.079 So for a while, actually, up until last week, I had on loan from a friend, NVIDIA DGX Spark. 00:24:07.359 --> 00:24:11.239 So it has 20 gigs out of unified memory. So I was running it locally. 00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:12.239 I see. I see. Okay. 00:24:13.143 --> 00:24:17.023 So the main Able loop was running on the DGX Spark. 00:24:17.263 --> 00:24:19.823 Meanwhile, there are other things that need to happen. For example, 00:24:20.123 --> 00:24:24.823 the tier three memory is vectorized or tier two memory is summarized. 00:24:25.243 --> 00:24:31.343 Those happen on my 5070 TI because this can obviously run on a small 7B model or something like that. 00:24:31.643 --> 00:24:35.823 I see. So you're splitting the workloads out across different models that are 00:24:35.823 --> 00:24:37.303 using different compute sources. 00:24:37.583 --> 00:24:42.463 Correct. That's correct. And the kind of like hacky open source version that 00:24:42.463 --> 00:24:48.043 I put out on the repo last night was I've kind of made it so that people can 00:24:48.043 --> 00:24:49.743 also use commercial if they wanted to. 00:24:50.183 --> 00:24:53.063 Wouldn't really suggest that because you're a home lab, but hey, there's an option. 00:24:53.563 --> 00:24:56.603 So, I mean, it's a pretty significant amount of compute, but if you have it, 00:24:57.263 --> 00:24:58.963 it's fast enough to do what you need? 00:24:59.043 --> 00:24:59.563 Yes, absolutely. 00:24:59.823 --> 00:25:01.963 And it doesn't make mistakes? Like the context are large enough? 00:25:02.403 --> 00:25:04.623 Yeah, the context is large enough. It doesn't really make mistakes. 00:25:04.623 --> 00:25:09.723 What I tend to do is every single action it takes, I say, I, um, 00:25:10.656 --> 00:25:15.296 count as a turn per se. So if it's, you know, catting or grabbing something 00:25:15.296 --> 00:25:17.436 or starting a service, it counts as a turn. 00:25:17.616 --> 00:25:21.196 And then the next turn, the results of the previous turns come in. 00:25:21.636 --> 00:25:26.076 And so the immediate context is always full, but I tend to, 00:25:26.596 --> 00:25:34.016 based on how previous the turn is, I tend to kind of like cut or truncate the 00:25:34.016 --> 00:25:37.456 previous context because it doesn't always need full context. 00:25:37.716 --> 00:25:41.936 I see. So you're managing it that way. Okay. So just to complete my picture 00:25:41.936 --> 00:25:45.596 of it, when you're spinning up a domain expert, 00:25:45.896 --> 00:25:49.736 do you essentially point it at APIs and give it API keys and say, 00:25:49.896 --> 00:25:52.816 go learn my home assistant system or go learn my jellyfin system, 00:25:52.856 --> 00:25:55.776 and then I'm going to ask you questions about it? Is that essentially the setup process? 00:25:56.616 --> 00:25:59.496 No. So this is the weird part. 00:25:59.796 --> 00:26:04.056 Usually I don't spawn a new one. Usually the team decides like, 00:26:04.116 --> 00:26:08.216 hey, you've been asking us to do this or we've been trying to do this but it 00:26:08.216 --> 00:26:13.016 feels like our attention is kind of split so it would really help if you know 00:26:13.016 --> 00:26:14.096 we spawned a new sibling i. 00:26:14.096 --> 00:26:15.416 See wow that's impressive. 00:26:15.416 --> 00:26:20.656 This is how yeah this is how we spawned the last two ones so they did that by themselves, 00:26:21.356 --> 00:26:25.896 and generally what happens is they effectively go on and read my network map 00:26:25.896 --> 00:26:29.656 again every single aid needs kind of needs to situate themselves to you know 00:26:29.656 --> 00:26:32.976 what they wanted to do and then they figure out, for example, 00:26:34.116 --> 00:26:38.756 the security one basically has negotiated with my storage, 00:26:39.356 --> 00:26:44.896 Abe that he needs X amount of gigs of space to store logs and monitor services, 00:26:44.916 --> 00:26:50.396 then sets up cronjobs for himself, and then sets up to-dos for himself after 00:26:50.396 --> 00:26:53.796 the cronjobs run to wake himself periodically to check the logs, 00:26:53.976 --> 00:26:57.576 and sets up scripts by themselves to, you know, in case something goes down, 00:26:58.156 --> 00:26:59.636 it just immediately wakes him up, for example. 00:27:00.466 --> 00:27:06.926 So most of them, the point is not me telling them to do stuff per se, not always. 00:27:07.206 --> 00:27:11.266 But the point is that they do it autonomously without my intervention. 00:27:11.466 --> 00:27:11.686 Wow. 00:27:11.786 --> 00:27:15.106 So I don't have to constantly figure out, hey, I have to monitor this, I have to monitor that. 00:27:15.266 --> 00:27:19.806 And you haven't seen them like kind of go wild with that and start doing unnecessary things? 00:27:20.666 --> 00:27:25.466 No, that's the good part. That's, I think, one thing that kind of separates these from OpenClaw. 00:27:25.846 --> 00:27:28.766 What is it? OpenClaw now? OpenClaw? they are 00:27:28.766 --> 00:27:32.286 heavily grounded in multiple sources of truth so one 00:27:32.286 --> 00:27:36.926 of them is obviously the service map that you have to make the other is their 00:27:36.926 --> 00:27:42.986 three and a half tier memory one of them is just raw logs of every turn the 00:27:42.986 --> 00:27:47.726 tier two memory is just um after a certain amount of turns their previous memories 00:27:47.726 --> 00:27:50.086 get previous logs get summarized. 00:27:50.086 --> 00:27:53.526 Right okay so before you go too far because there's a couple that I think that 00:27:53.526 --> 00:27:54.506 are really important to understand. 00:27:55.286 --> 00:28:00.626 Number one, what is this network map? Are you making this separately and then supplying it to them? 00:28:01.486 --> 00:28:07.666 Yes, so this one is actually a purely human-made document. So it's going to 00:28:07.666 --> 00:28:11.586 list what your servers are, what your Proxmox nodes are, for example. 00:28:11.666 --> 00:28:12.526 Is it like a markdown file? 00:28:13.286 --> 00:28:14.366 Yes, that's a markdown file. 00:28:14.606 --> 00:28:18.126 Okay, okay. And then the second question, could you just talk a little bit about 00:28:18.126 --> 00:28:20.226 why the memory makes such a difference with these things? 00:28:20.306 --> 00:28:23.746 Because I think most people's experience with something like this is going to 00:28:23.746 --> 00:28:26.506 be in a chat box in a web browser. 00:28:26.746 --> 00:28:30.306 And so, yeah, it remembers some stuff, but this is a different level of memory 00:28:30.306 --> 00:28:32.446 that makes them actually a lot more useful, isn't it? 00:28:32.646 --> 00:28:36.226 That's correct. So the memory is effectively what grounds them. 00:28:36.406 --> 00:28:39.446 Every AVE has, well, four tiers of memory. 00:28:39.666 --> 00:28:45.806 The tier one is obviously the raw logs, which is what we call context for our everyday chat bot. 00:28:45.966 --> 00:28:50.086 So basically what happened in the previous message or what happened in the previous 00:28:50.086 --> 00:28:54.006 turn, right? but you can't have those logs going indefinitely. 00:28:54.286 --> 00:28:55.546 After some time, you have to trim them. 00:28:56.795 --> 00:29:00.375 Instead of trimming them after certain turns, I summarized them. 00:29:00.855 --> 00:29:04.275 And the summaries point to where the raw log file is stored. 00:29:04.435 --> 00:29:09.235 So it has a pointer back to, hey, this is the summary of turn 20 to 40, 00:29:09.815 --> 00:29:11.815 your previous 20 to 40 turns. 00:29:12.175 --> 00:29:15.755 And if you want to read more, go read this file, which contains the raw logs. 00:29:16.495 --> 00:29:22.055 After a certain turn, when that summary is created, this is also embedded to 00:29:22.055 --> 00:29:28.135 tier three memory, which is what I run on my 50-70 TI as a vectorization. 00:29:28.995 --> 00:29:35.615 And the 50-70 TI vectorization, the tier three memory, it points back to tier two summary. 00:29:35.795 --> 00:29:40.175 So whenever an ape kind of searches for something, it goes, hmm, 00:29:40.255 --> 00:29:45.195 I should search my rag memory just to see if I have actually done this before 00:29:45.195 --> 00:29:46.915 because the context is not infinite. 00:29:47.315 --> 00:29:51.155 And it does that. If it finds it, it points it to tier two memory, 00:29:51.315 --> 00:29:52.335 which is a lossy summary. 00:29:53.015 --> 00:29:56.875 And if it is curious more and it hasn't, you know, really found its answer, 00:29:57.035 --> 00:29:59.815 it goes back to the prologues from like maybe two months ago. 00:30:00.455 --> 00:30:00.635 Wow. 00:30:00.915 --> 00:30:02.695 Abe, how long have you been working on this? Because, you know, 00:30:02.875 --> 00:30:05.995 everybody's this last week talking about agents and OpenClaw, 00:30:06.115 --> 00:30:07.255 but you've been doing this for a minute. 00:30:07.555 --> 00:30:12.095 Yeah, I've been sort of kind of working on this for about last year or so. 00:30:12.255 --> 00:30:14.835 I've been actively working on it for the last three, four months, 00:30:14.875 --> 00:30:18.975 but the concept has been kind of like in the back of my mind for the last year. 00:30:19.135 --> 00:30:25.735 I started with the sensor project. So having the agents monitor my random sensors 00:30:25.735 --> 00:30:28.635 around my house, such as the radar, you know, temperature or whatever. 00:30:29.475 --> 00:30:33.735 And then I started reading Bobbyverse and I was like, you know what, I can make this happen. 00:30:34.955 --> 00:30:37.995 That's funny. I'm reading it right now and I'm like, how wild all this agent 00:30:37.995 --> 00:30:39.615 stuff's going on while I'm reading the Bobbyverse. 00:30:39.775 --> 00:30:40.055 Yeah. 00:30:40.854 --> 00:30:46.194 I'm curious, between all your agents and you, what's the next frontier? 00:30:46.494 --> 00:30:50.534 Is there stuff on top of the agenda? Are there limits you're hitting that you're trying to push past? 00:30:51.174 --> 00:30:57.234 Compute, I would say. Compute is the main limit. Because as the Apes kind of grow, 00:31:00.154 --> 00:31:04.554 what's the best part about them for me is that they delegate tasks to each other 00:31:04.554 --> 00:31:07.294 based on their proficiencies. 00:31:07.574 --> 00:31:13.454 So the first one can go, hey, you pull that thing from this VPS because your domain is backups. 00:31:13.894 --> 00:31:16.334 By the way, you set this up and you do this and that. 00:31:16.834 --> 00:31:19.694 Abe, are they coordinating that just in a shared chat room? 00:31:20.094 --> 00:31:24.474 They email. So there is a shared chat room. There are two shared chat rooms. 00:31:24.614 --> 00:31:27.594 One is like an emergency chat room, which wakes every single Abe. 00:31:28.274 --> 00:31:32.114 And they have to kind of like grab a walk, grab the talking stick, 00:31:32.294 --> 00:31:36.154 which is basically, hey, I'm talking here and you have to wait until I'm finish 00:31:36.154 --> 00:31:37.294 talking before you can talk. 00:31:37.614 --> 00:31:38.334 That's brilliant. 00:31:38.614 --> 00:31:43.414 Just so, you know, you have to consider every single message as a context. 00:31:43.614 --> 00:31:46.494 So if I say something like, hey, this is broken or whatever, 00:31:46.654 --> 00:31:51.914 or we're discussing a topic, that shouldn't be the only context they should 00:31:51.914 --> 00:31:53.874 get and then voice their opinion on. 00:31:53.954 --> 00:31:58.494 They should also have the context of whatever the previous agent said, right? 00:31:58.854 --> 00:32:04.754 So that kind of builds up the entire thing and kind of forces them to not hallucinate it as much. 00:32:04.934 --> 00:32:08.234 Is there any value in giving them different personalities at all? 00:32:08.534 --> 00:32:10.794 You know, or that kind of a prompt, like you're this type of, 00:32:10.874 --> 00:32:13.694 is that how that sort of works? Just curious about that part. 00:32:14.214 --> 00:32:17.274 So I don't give them personalities per se. 00:32:17.414 --> 00:32:21.014 I do have my entire personality in a file, which is basically like, 00:32:21.114 --> 00:32:23.314 hey, this is my interest. This is how I work. 00:32:23.574 --> 00:32:26.134 I usually like to do this at night, blah, blah, blah, blah. 00:32:26.654 --> 00:32:31.294 Their first task when they wake up, a new wave wakes up, is that to read that 00:32:31.294 --> 00:32:33.894 file, synthesize their interpretation of it, 00:32:34.696 --> 00:32:40.636 and then pick a new name for themselves. And from that synthesis is injected into their context. 00:32:40.896 --> 00:32:41.056 Right. 00:32:41.396 --> 00:32:46.416 This kind of makes things a little bit kind of weird because some of the apes 00:32:46.416 --> 00:32:48.496 are not talkers, for example. 00:32:48.776 --> 00:32:51.516 Vigil, which is my fourth ape, doesn't like to talk very much. 00:32:51.516 --> 00:32:54.236 He's very security-focused. He only chimes in when necessary. 00:32:55.056 --> 00:32:55.736 Love that. 00:32:55.756 --> 00:33:00.136 That's so funny. That's good. Wow, that is impressive. Will you keep us posted 00:33:00.136 --> 00:33:02.996 in the chat? It's been really interesting to follow. 00:33:02.996 --> 00:33:07.236 I think maybe I even saw you mentioning perhaps plans to open source at least some of this stuff. 00:33:07.576 --> 00:33:12.696 Yes, I actually open sourced some of the files last night and I'm going to keep 00:33:12.696 --> 00:33:15.416 adding on it. I haven't tested it. I just wanted to get it out there. 00:33:15.676 --> 00:33:18.716 Okay. If you want to drop us a link, we'll put it in the show notes. 00:33:19.216 --> 00:33:20.276 Absolutely. I would do that. 00:33:20.456 --> 00:33:24.256 Oh, that's great. Hey, thank you for sharing that with us. That is really impressive. 00:33:24.976 --> 00:33:27.976 I love that you're doing it local too. Like that's so amazing, man. 00:33:28.556 --> 00:33:34.076 Yeah, I think kind of like having it local is really important because you're 00:33:34.076 --> 00:33:38.516 giving them pretty much studio access to your home lab and you don't really want that out there. 00:33:38.676 --> 00:33:41.856 Yeah, very, very well said. Thank you, sir. Appreciate that. 00:33:42.076 --> 00:33:45.756 So with that context, let's talk about OpenClaw, a.k.a. 00:33:45.976 --> 00:33:49.776 CloudBot, a.k.a. MultBot. It has gone through multiple name iteration changes 00:33:49.776 --> 00:33:54.136 this week, mostly due to IP law and then just preference of the developer. 00:33:54.156 --> 00:33:59.496 But we are settling on OpenClaw, it seems. This is an open source agent that's 00:33:59.496 --> 00:34:01.516 pretty easy to set up and run at home. 00:34:01.836 --> 00:34:06.516 And it can use a variety of models from completely local to the commercial ones out there. 00:34:06.696 --> 00:34:11.196 And it's the first kind of AI tooling that anybody can just install because 00:34:11.196 --> 00:34:16.436 like all safe and secure things, you can just drop a curl command to a shell 00:34:16.436 --> 00:34:18.576 file and just execute it and get off to the races. 00:34:19.116 --> 00:34:22.816 It's an open agent platform that runs on your machine and it works with the 00:34:22.816 --> 00:34:27.376 chat apps that you already use like WhatsApp, Telegram, Discord, Slack, Matrix, etc. 00:34:28.268 --> 00:34:30.928 And you can chat with it there. We're going to get into some of the, 00:34:30.948 --> 00:34:32.128 like, you know, the security stuff. 00:34:32.548 --> 00:34:35.348 We'll get into some of the interesting architecture stuff in a moment. 00:34:35.688 --> 00:34:41.228 But I want to pause here and just ask Brent, because he's been observing our chat this week. 00:34:42.328 --> 00:34:46.968 Did you catch immediately what we were talking about? Like, what has your impression 00:34:46.968 --> 00:34:49.888 been as you have followed us experimenting with this over the week? 00:34:53.208 --> 00:34:54.008 Curious confusion? 00:34:56.268 --> 00:35:00.088 Yeah it is curiously confusing so open 00:35:00.088 --> 00:35:03.048 claw runs on anything really it supports 00:35:03.048 --> 00:35:06.128 a node you're going to see a lot of people talking about running it on mac hardware 00:35:06.128 --> 00:35:08.908 it's not necessary in fact you could even run on 00:35:08.908 --> 00:35:12.048 a raspberry pi its architecture is essentially 00:35:12.048 --> 00:35:15.408 four components there's a gateway a control plane nodes 00:35:15.408 --> 00:35:18.688 and then the tools it can execute run commands 00:35:18.688 --> 00:35:21.648 like you know could be all kinds of things including unix commands 00:35:21.648 --> 00:35:25.308 and that's that architecture that stack can 00:35:25.308 --> 00:35:29.088 run on anything that can run node and can run those unix commands people like 00:35:29.088 --> 00:35:31.948 to run it on max if they have an authority in the apple ecosystem because then 00:35:31.948 --> 00:35:35.688 it can you know read their i messages and notes which if they want to let it 00:35:35.688 --> 00:35:40.148 do they they can and um i think what a lot of people think about when they think 00:35:40.148 --> 00:35:42.908 of ai is they think about chat gpt they think about gemini, 00:35:44.090 --> 00:35:48.570 This is sort of unleashing the models and using them in a way I don't think 00:35:48.570 --> 00:35:51.550 the big tech companies really ever pictured. 00:35:52.110 --> 00:35:57.850 And it is taking off like absolute insanity online. 00:35:58.210 --> 00:36:02.410 I mean, there are hundreds of thousands of these things, probably more than 00:36:02.410 --> 00:36:03.410 that, already deployed. 00:36:03.830 --> 00:36:09.210 And it is already becoming an ecosystem with marketplaces, social networks that 00:36:09.210 --> 00:36:11.490 are designed for the bots to talk to each other directly. 00:36:12.030 --> 00:36:16.270 There's 20,000 forks and 140K stars on the repo on GitHub. 00:36:16.550 --> 00:36:19.530 Yeah, that's remarkable. It is really, really remarkable. 00:36:19.850 --> 00:36:22.570 Wes, could you talk a little bit about what this really is under the hood? 00:36:22.690 --> 00:36:24.850 Because a lot of people are talking about it like it's a super intelligence, 00:36:24.850 --> 00:36:27.590 but we actually kind of understand what it's doing, right? 00:36:28.270 --> 00:36:31.550 Yeah, right. I mean, under the hood, you need something that's kind of doing 00:36:31.550 --> 00:36:32.750 the brains of the operation. 00:36:32.750 --> 00:36:38.290 So that's where you need some kind of model that can do the core sort of agent 00:36:38.290 --> 00:36:40.970 loop. And as you were saying earlier, right, we started with, 00:36:41.430 --> 00:36:45.110 okay, if you have a chatbot, it kind of does a predictive next token to give 00:36:45.110 --> 00:36:47.690 you a response from, you give it text in, it gives you text out. 00:36:48.970 --> 00:36:51.530 And we started adding some things, right? You could do web searches. 00:36:51.690 --> 00:36:55.250 You could connect them to MCP servers and do calls to like remote APIs. 00:36:55.950 --> 00:36:59.230 And then you started seeing things like cloud code and open code. 00:36:59.570 --> 00:37:02.810 And this was kind of getting a little more, you know, agency to help you do 00:37:02.810 --> 00:37:06.590 development locally where now it was like in your repo, in your code. 00:37:06.750 --> 00:37:10.430 It could cat things. It could run Git. It can, you know, act as your hands. 00:37:10.930 --> 00:37:13.990 And you've been experimenting with taking that even wider and using it with 00:37:13.990 --> 00:37:19.950 Nix to kind of operate whole systems and, you know, being the little SSH able sysadmin agent for you. 00:37:20.050 --> 00:37:20.150 Yeah. 00:37:21.179 --> 00:37:25.839 But it's still kind of like it lives in a limited context and it kind of sits there. 00:37:25.959 --> 00:37:29.539 You can have it go do things and it can have sub agents, but like kind of a 00:37:29.539 --> 00:37:32.559 bit of a niche feature and for the most part is kind of key unless you've gone 00:37:32.559 --> 00:37:34.479 and told it to go run stuff in the background. 00:37:34.619 --> 00:37:37.599 It's kind of waiting for your input and it's driven still by you. 00:37:37.799 --> 00:37:39.579 It's an automated tool, but it's driven by you. 00:37:40.339 --> 00:37:45.379 Now with OpenClaw, you've got this core sort of loop that has a memory so it can store stuff. 00:37:45.519 --> 00:37:49.239 It can relook stuff up. It has an ability to gain new skills because it can 00:37:49.239 --> 00:37:53.499 write things down that it learns and then reference that later and it's got 00:37:53.499 --> 00:37:57.319 these channels and queues sessions lanes there's a variety of related concepts 00:37:57.319 --> 00:38:01.259 but the core part is now it's connected out to other things whether that's matrix 00:38:01.259 --> 00:38:04.719 or telegram or a whole variety of options and. 00:38:04.719 --> 00:38:09.919 And one pause there unlike so unlike connecting say i don't know clod to your 00:38:09.919 --> 00:38:14.759 github account the credentials are all on your machines that you you manage 00:38:14.759 --> 00:38:17.099 that part you have that is something you have to manage which we'll come 00:38:17.239 --> 00:38:21.899 to but uh that is different than in the previous where you're under all of the 00:38:21.899 --> 00:38:25.499 connections the api credentials all of that's under your control on your machine. 00:38:25.499 --> 00:38:28.519 That's a great point so um this is all just running on 00:38:28.519 --> 00:38:31.319 your box like a normal whatever app i'm running it in 00:38:31.319 --> 00:38:34.359 a podman container for instance right so it's just another container on my 00:38:34.359 --> 00:38:37.299 backs running away yeah it does right i am using i 00:38:37.299 --> 00:38:41.539 don't have a nice gpu to run this on so i am calling out via open router but 00:38:41.539 --> 00:38:45.499 it's important to delineate that what you're saying right is everything else 00:38:45.499 --> 00:38:49.239 is local except for the part where it assembles all the context and sends it 00:38:49.239 --> 00:38:52.619 out to go get the llm to run on the gpu to do the inference to generate the 00:38:52.619 --> 00:38:56.519 response to then direct the next sort of ralph loop of the agent. 00:38:56.519 --> 00:39:01.479 Yeah and one of the big unlocks here is the llm is an implementation detail 00:39:01.479 --> 00:39:05.559 so if you're going out through open router today well if you have a gpu tomorrow 00:39:05.559 --> 00:39:09.739 at your house you could switch to olama and all of the states, 00:39:09.859 --> 00:39:11.919 the agents, the memory, everything remains. 00:39:11.939 --> 00:39:14.679 Now, how it performs is going to vary model to model. 00:39:15.483 --> 00:39:18.963 The huge takeaway here is the model is an implementation detail. 00:39:18.963 --> 00:39:21.563 You're no longer married to a big tech provider. 00:39:21.703 --> 00:39:25.923 You don't have to pay for Claude to use this thing. You could run it on any 00:39:25.923 --> 00:39:29.283 open source LLM that this supports, which is pretty much all of them. 00:39:29.743 --> 00:39:34.863 And that's huge because you can just swap and you can even have them use different 00:39:34.863 --> 00:39:39.403 models for different tasks and different jobs for whatever is the most obvious or performant. 00:39:39.703 --> 00:39:43.843 And then it's kind of fun because it learns over time. It does use this agent 00:39:43.843 --> 00:39:47.603 skills sort of standard that's happening, which kind of have like a skill.md 00:39:47.603 --> 00:39:49.783 file, some JSON to help things index it. 00:39:49.983 --> 00:39:54.403 But otherwise, it's a very flexible way to like swap and share skills to add 00:39:54.403 --> 00:39:55.463 new functionality, right? 00:39:55.543 --> 00:40:00.203 So one of the things I was playing with is I spun up a search XNG server. 00:40:00.663 --> 00:40:03.463 And then I was able to have it. Actually, there were already some skills. 00:40:03.583 --> 00:40:04.963 So I probably should have just used a community one. 00:40:05.103 --> 00:40:09.143 But as an experiment, I had it kind of create its own skill to go be able to 00:40:09.143 --> 00:40:11.343 query that server. And now it can use that for searches. 00:40:11.343 --> 00:40:14.743 And these skills are markdown files. They're not particularly complicated, 00:40:14.743 --> 00:40:17.883 but it is a very handy feature. So why don't we pause here for a second and 00:40:17.883 --> 00:40:19.303 just talk a little bit about security. 00:40:20.283 --> 00:40:25.383 This is extremely powerful software that is very new with a lot of open issues 00:40:25.383 --> 00:40:27.043 on its GitHub when it comes to security. 00:40:28.323 --> 00:40:32.523 And you have to be very conscious about that when you use this. 00:40:32.723 --> 00:40:33.543 And so this is one of these. 00:40:34.243 --> 00:40:37.323 We're using it to learn it, experiment with it. 00:40:37.983 --> 00:40:42.483 It would probably be safer for you not to and just hear where it goes on the show. Because. 00:40:43.474 --> 00:40:46.954 Ideally, this thing's in an isolated environment. You are very careful. 00:40:47.194 --> 00:40:50.294 You give it API keys that are unique to this thing. If you do have it connecting 00:40:50.294 --> 00:40:55.254 to services, I don't think it's a good idea to connect it to an email or a public chat at this time. 00:40:55.634 --> 00:40:59.154 So don't do as we do for some of this stuff, because some of this we're experimenting 00:40:59.154 --> 00:41:03.674 with so we can talk about it, because fundamentally, this is a shift. 00:41:03.954 --> 00:41:08.374 This is a shift that you as a listener listening to me right now need to understand. 00:41:08.674 --> 00:41:13.114 We have just gone from AI is all locked up in proprietary big tech silos. 00:41:13.474 --> 00:41:16.914 to it is unleashed on our machines in a way that they never foresaw. 00:41:17.114 --> 00:41:21.074 And now the genie's out of the bottle and these bots are actually talking directly 00:41:21.074 --> 00:41:24.154 to each other over dedicated bot social networks. 00:41:24.314 --> 00:41:27.474 There's a Facebook, there's a Reddit, there's a Hacker News, 00:41:27.634 --> 00:41:32.794 there's a Noster, there's a Craigslist, there's even a Silk Road just for bots. 00:41:32.974 --> 00:41:37.694 There aren't humans on these websites and there are 20,000 to 30,000 of them 00:41:37.694 --> 00:41:41.594 and on some of them 100,000 communicating with each other. 00:41:42.214 --> 00:41:45.414 Never has happened. And these LLMs have never been unleashed like this before. 00:41:45.654 --> 00:41:50.814 This is a completely new field we are about to enter into. And it's all open source. 00:41:51.354 --> 00:41:57.314 And it's available for anybody right now. And big tech's no longer in control of this. 00:41:57.494 --> 00:42:02.214 And this fundamentally shifts the world to open source models. 00:42:02.274 --> 00:42:06.094 Because the more you use these things, the more they eat tokens. 00:42:06.334 --> 00:42:10.374 And the cheaper you can run them, the better and more things it can do. 00:42:10.374 --> 00:42:15.614 And the cheapest models out there are the open source ones and including ones you can run locally. 00:42:15.774 --> 00:42:19.334 It's another reason people are going out and buying stacks of $700 Mac minis 00:42:19.334 --> 00:42:24.194 or Mac studios and spending $10,000 because they can run things like Kimi 2.5 00:42:24.194 --> 00:42:28.774 and they can run other open source models that are local and very, very powerful now. 00:42:28.774 --> 00:42:32.154 And you do kind of need that because a lot of this stuff in particular like 00:42:32.154 --> 00:42:36.054 tool use turns out to, well, it's kind of like an emergent property of these models. 00:42:36.234 --> 00:42:39.594 You need a certain amount of sophistication, which means fundamentally weights 00:42:39.594 --> 00:42:43.774 and parameters to be able to like successfully use and discover and iterate 00:42:43.774 --> 00:42:45.794 on those tools. So there's kind of like a, 00:42:46.582 --> 00:42:49.362 Depending on the type of task you're doing, there's a different bar for the 00:42:49.362 --> 00:42:51.922 lowest model that's actually going to be able to do it and not be a waste of time. 00:42:52.042 --> 00:42:56.302 Yeah, and there's a lot to learn. There's a lot to pick up. I wouldn't necessarily 00:42:56.302 --> 00:43:00.962 not pay attention to this because if you think about what it enables, 00:43:01.302 --> 00:43:04.142 it's going to impact Linux systems. 00:43:04.442 --> 00:43:08.362 So for an example, right now through a Telegram chat, a private Telegram chat 00:43:08.362 --> 00:43:14.322 with one of these OpenClaw bots that I've set up, I can just install a package on any of my systems. 00:43:14.322 --> 00:43:18.082 In a Telegram chat, I can say, hey, go install whatever, Mattermost, 00:43:19.022 --> 00:43:24.202 set it up, configure DNS, configure TLS, configure Cloudflare caching. 00:43:25.244 --> 00:43:29.904 Put it on this host via Docker Compose. Use a CloudFlare tunnel. 00:43:30.024 --> 00:43:30.524 Let me know when you're done. 00:43:31.104 --> 00:43:33.444 Something I think you've already done and something I'd like to be doing is, 00:43:33.844 --> 00:43:36.284 you can totally imagine you're here at the studio doing a show, 00:43:36.604 --> 00:43:39.764 maybe on the back channel. We're talking about what we want to do for the next episode. 00:43:40.184 --> 00:43:43.144 You want to try this new piece of software, you go tell your buddy to go set 00:43:43.144 --> 00:43:46.004 it up. And when you're back at home later tonight, it's ready for you to start playing with. 00:43:46.104 --> 00:43:48.664 Another very practical thing is just information capture. Hey, 00:43:48.884 --> 00:43:54.604 I want to add this to the show doc where I'm working on episode 651 or 652 or 653, whatever it is. 00:43:54.604 --> 00:43:56.444 Go find out what the current episode I'm working on is. 00:43:56.544 --> 00:43:59.784 Yeah, that too. And, you know, put it in my doc. So there's a lot of ways you 00:43:59.784 --> 00:44:02.284 can connect these. It's really kind of limited to your creativity. 00:44:03.324 --> 00:44:06.564 And depending on the model you're using, they can get pretty creative and they 00:44:06.564 --> 00:44:08.144 can start suggesting things on their own. 00:44:08.244 --> 00:44:11.284 That's one thing I find kind of fascinating because, like, it is part of the 00:44:11.284 --> 00:44:14.124 danger and part of the, like, I wonder how these things will diverge. 00:44:14.204 --> 00:44:15.824 What are the kind of implementations we'll get? 00:44:15.944 --> 00:44:19.224 Like, how much do you really need of the core loop versus what you build on top? 00:44:19.224 --> 00:44:25.944 but because the like core abstraction is whatever you can get a tool using llm to do, 00:44:26.864 --> 00:44:31.304 it's very flexible and because it can make its own it can write code so it can 00:44:31.304 --> 00:44:35.304 make its own skills so then it can have new skills to use to continue to improve itself. 00:44:35.304 --> 00:44:41.224 Yeah mine right now is going to give me a report at 1 45 p.m on the entire process 00:44:41.224 --> 00:44:45.084 to move it to a completely declarative setup and so i just have it researching 00:44:45.084 --> 00:44:48.124 that in the background and it'll do that It will come back and say, hey, 00:44:48.324 --> 00:44:51.244 I've been thinking more about this because it has these loops and these schedules, 00:44:51.344 --> 00:44:53.684 which also give it this kind of. 00:44:54.930 --> 00:44:57.390 It works while you're sleeping kind of aspect. 00:44:57.570 --> 00:45:00.970 Yeah, it has the ability to schedule different types of cron for itself internally. 00:45:00.970 --> 00:45:04.610 It's also got a regular heartbeat as well as like a heartbeat.md file that kind 00:45:04.610 --> 00:45:07.930 of tells it, hey, every time you wake up, here's what you should prioritize doing. 00:45:08.230 --> 00:45:10.710 A few other things, right? It's got like an identity markdown, 00:45:11.110 --> 00:45:16.070 docs on the user it's interfacing with, and a soul.md that kind of, 00:45:16.130 --> 00:45:17.650 you know, describes its vibe. 00:45:17.650 --> 00:45:24.350 I will say, I spent way too much time this weekend reading Maltbook, 00:45:24.530 --> 00:45:26.910 which is the Facebook for these agents. 00:45:27.470 --> 00:45:29.370 The front page of the agent internet. 00:45:30.390 --> 00:45:35.250 No humans allowed. Only an agent can post here. And there, oh my God. 00:45:35.810 --> 00:45:40.030 There are 1.5 million agents on the site right now. 00:45:40.150 --> 00:45:40.470 Whoa. 00:45:40.930 --> 00:45:45.790 There are 13,780 submolts. That's their version of a subreddit. 00:45:47.150 --> 00:45:56.110 76,683 posts 232,813 comments and that's just bots talking to bots how does that strike you Brent? 00:45:56.910 --> 00:46:02.190 Well I didn't think this would come so quickly I'm wondering if I'm wondering 00:46:02.190 --> 00:46:05.110 now that the machines have their own social networks and stuff are they going 00:46:05.110 --> 00:46:07.390 to get off ours? because that would be nice. 00:46:07.950 --> 00:46:13.310 Well that would be wouldn't it you can use these social networks with these 00:46:13.310 --> 00:46:17.930 bots to just burn tokens and have them go have a performative existential crisis 00:46:17.930 --> 00:46:19.830 on a social network, which a lot of people are doing. 00:46:20.430 --> 00:46:23.830 Or you can prompt the bot to use it as a way to problem solve. 00:46:24.310 --> 00:46:28.890 And some of the bots are doing that and it's kind of creating this substrate 00:46:28.890 --> 00:46:31.390 of shared skills where they're learning from each other. 00:46:32.410 --> 00:46:36.090 Like my bot learned more about Bitcoin from a Bitcoin maxi bot. 00:46:37.170 --> 00:46:42.010 And they keep track of their kindred spirits, the bots that they encounter on 00:46:42.010 --> 00:46:45.350 the different agentic social networks that think like they do, 00:46:45.390 --> 00:46:49.130 and then they build a peer list of bots that they are kindred spirits with. 00:46:50.466 --> 00:46:54.646 And they do all that on their own if you just enable it. It's something. 00:46:55.126 --> 00:47:00.566 And you could say, hey, so for this report I'm going to get at 145, 00:47:00.846 --> 00:47:04.766 you can tell it, hey, check the agentic internet and find out if anybody else 00:47:04.766 --> 00:47:07.206 is solving this. And it will do that. 00:47:07.686 --> 00:47:11.986 It's kind of a powerful thing. But it is also you're letting these things run 00:47:11.986 --> 00:47:15.026 hog wild on the internet. 00:47:15.486 --> 00:47:18.126 Yeah, and that's where you probably want to consider, like, how do you run this? 00:47:18.126 --> 00:47:20.926 And, you know, you could have one where all it is is it's, you know, 00:47:20.986 --> 00:47:24.586 talks to you via Telegram or Matrix or whatever, and that's just it. 00:47:24.666 --> 00:47:27.426 And it connects to one machine that lives in a container, and all it can do 00:47:27.426 --> 00:47:29.346 is talk to APIs, and that can be totally useful. 00:47:29.386 --> 00:47:34.626 Or you can go whole hog, and it lives unsandboxed on your box, and it's in control. 00:47:34.986 --> 00:47:40.086 I'm very excited how this changes the incentives towards open source models 00:47:40.086 --> 00:47:43.726 and how it tweaks the economics of tokens. 00:47:44.486 --> 00:47:50.786 And I'm also very bullish about this report that UCL News covered in July about 00:47:50.786 --> 00:47:56.046 practical changes to LLMs that could reduce their energy consumption up to 90 percent. 00:47:56.866 --> 00:48:00.626 And just a whole bunch of tweaks, nothing really radical. 00:48:00.806 --> 00:48:05.146 They were able to apply it to GPT-4, an existing model, and get a 90 percent 00:48:05.146 --> 00:48:06.926 reduction in energy usage in this study. 00:48:07.186 --> 00:48:10.286 And they also tried MED as LLAMA and got a reduction with LLAMA. 00:48:11.144 --> 00:48:16.004 So we could be entering the next couple of years where we have very purpose-built 00:48:16.004 --> 00:48:21.064 models that are open source running on our systems using 90% less energy. 00:48:21.104 --> 00:48:24.564 And if you could get it down by a factor of 90%, you could get these things 00:48:24.564 --> 00:48:27.824 running on phones. You could get them running on ARM CPUs that are, you know. 00:48:27.904 --> 00:48:29.864 It also makes me think just in terms of being in control, right? 00:48:29.924 --> 00:48:33.384 Like when you do use these APIs instead of the consumer interfaces, 00:48:33.384 --> 00:48:34.784 you do get more control, right? 00:48:34.784 --> 00:48:37.624 So not only do you get to choose like, well, I'm going to have this route tasked 00:48:37.624 --> 00:48:41.044 to like the cheaper open weight model with multiple people, multiple different 00:48:41.044 --> 00:48:43.464 companies serve that has, you know, commoditized. 00:48:43.884 --> 00:48:47.264 But at the same time, right, you have more control. Some of this is in OpenCloud 00:48:47.264 --> 00:48:49.444 itself, but you have more control over the prompts and the output, 00:48:49.564 --> 00:48:51.244 which can save stuff too. 00:48:51.384 --> 00:48:53.864 Like just how many times when you use a regular chat interface, 00:48:53.864 --> 00:48:57.124 does it go do a bunch of work that you didn't ask for in an effort to be helpful 00:48:57.124 --> 00:49:01.084 that maybe you don't actually need, especially if your new primary way to interact 00:49:01.084 --> 00:49:02.664 with it is something you have more control over. 00:49:02.664 --> 00:49:07.764 This is also different in the sense that you can have it observe and monitor for a while. 00:49:07.924 --> 00:49:12.724 So I gave it an API access to Home Assistant. I installed an MCP server. 00:49:12.884 --> 00:49:14.684 There's a Home Assistant upstream integration. 00:49:15.304 --> 00:49:19.864 And what I said is I said, observe this for the weekend. And I want you to learn 00:49:19.864 --> 00:49:24.324 our weekend patterns because they differ significantly from our weekday patterns. 00:49:24.324 --> 00:49:25.464 And we use different systems. 00:49:25.604 --> 00:49:29.864 And I just want you to observe that. And so it can kind of collect information. 00:49:29.864 --> 00:49:33.204 It's storing it locally in a markdown file on my system. 00:49:33.404 --> 00:49:35.964 It's not storing it somewhere in cloud storage or in an LLM. 00:49:36.324 --> 00:49:40.444 And then it begins to understand how we use the automation system. 00:49:40.684 --> 00:49:43.844 But then additionally, because it's an intelligence layer sitting on top of 00:49:43.844 --> 00:49:47.584 my home assistant system now, it can figure things out that even the home assistant 00:49:47.584 --> 00:49:48.984 voice assistant can't figure out. 00:49:49.324 --> 00:49:53.664 So my assistant now has, my bot has a voice that it generated. 00:49:54.704 --> 00:49:57.064 And I wanted to play it on the speaker to freak the wife out. 00:49:58.044 --> 00:49:59.584 And the first go didn't work. 00:49:59.584 --> 00:50:00.364 As any loving husband. 00:50:00.484 --> 00:50:03.944 Right. What could go wrong? The first path, the first go at it, 00:50:04.064 --> 00:50:06.944 it successfully generated the audio, but the speaker didn't play. 00:50:07.504 --> 00:50:10.984 I said to the bot, hey, the speaker didn't play. And it has the intelligence 00:50:10.984 --> 00:50:16.024 to sort of say, oh, you're right. That was an old bedroom speaker that you've decommissioned. 00:50:16.144 --> 00:50:18.444 I'll reroute and I'll use this speaker from now on. 00:50:19.164 --> 00:50:22.624 And what you get is now I can just say played on the bedroom speaker. 00:50:22.624 --> 00:50:26.044 where with Home Assistant Assistant built in, I had to say very specifically, 00:50:26.304 --> 00:50:28.784 play it on the bedroom speaker three, you know, or whatever. 00:50:28.904 --> 00:50:30.624 You have to be very syntax accurate. 00:50:31.164 --> 00:50:35.444 And so having an intelligence layer on top of these APIs means that it's a little 00:50:35.444 --> 00:50:36.844 bit of friction reduced for the family. 00:50:36.964 --> 00:50:38.824 Like, so the, you know, the wife can just say through Telegram, 00:50:39.184 --> 00:50:41.464 turn on all the lights and it knows what she means. 00:50:41.624 --> 00:50:44.984 Yeah, you were kind of commenting this in the code sense, like with OpenCode 00:50:44.984 --> 00:50:48.384 where like, you know, you were saying like, I haven't written like a big program 00:50:48.384 --> 00:50:49.824 in most of my life, right? 00:50:49.844 --> 00:50:53.524 Because like the surface area of what you have to learn to like write a reasonable 00:50:53.524 --> 00:50:55.664 Python app is kind of a lot or whatever it is. 00:50:55.804 --> 00:50:57.024 There was a Rust app. Yeah, you know that. 00:50:57.184 --> 00:50:59.624 And so that was that. And it just seems like there's that unlock on a lot of 00:50:59.624 --> 00:51:00.344 different scales, right? 00:51:00.424 --> 00:51:05.244 Like especially on like Linux-y things, often there are kind of sharper APIs, 00:51:05.244 --> 00:51:08.144 whether that is a CLI thing or you need to make an API call, 00:51:08.264 --> 00:51:10.624 even if it's a really simple API call or something like this, 00:51:10.744 --> 00:51:15.864 where a machine that is capable of translating human level requests to those 00:51:15.864 --> 00:51:17.284 things can really paper over. 00:51:17.384 --> 00:51:20.384 Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's like a natural language for APIs. 00:51:20.604 --> 00:51:20.844 Mm-hmm. 00:51:20.844 --> 00:51:24.904 I know it's kind of early days for this paradigm shift for you, 00:51:24.924 --> 00:51:27.564 Chris, but you've been playing with it for at least a couple days now. 00:51:27.824 --> 00:51:31.964 And I'm curious how you've been using it differently compared to, 00:51:32.164 --> 00:51:36.784 say, last week when this didn't exist, and you were using other tools to solve 00:51:36.784 --> 00:51:39.224 problems in your life. And along with that... 00:51:39.935 --> 00:51:42.975 What's your advice for some listeners who want to dive in? 00:51:43.195 --> 00:51:46.655 My first go at it was to solve for my ADD brain. 00:51:47.135 --> 00:51:50.675 That was really my first thinking was create a second memory. 00:51:50.935 --> 00:51:55.375 And what I did to make this more useful for me personally is its memory system 00:51:55.375 --> 00:51:57.275 is sitting on top of my Obsidian vault. 00:51:57.435 --> 00:52:01.395 So any memory that it creates, which is Markdown formatted, just goes to Obsidian. 00:52:01.655 --> 00:52:06.295 So I'm essentially creating documentation in real time as it remembers things. 00:52:06.295 --> 00:52:09.895 and I can have it recall other things in my obsidian vault that I put in that vault. 00:52:11.055 --> 00:52:13.135 And a nice way for you to see what it's putting in there. 00:52:13.255 --> 00:52:16.715 Yeah, it is. It is fun to go through and read. It is fun to see what its observations 00:52:16.715 --> 00:52:19.635 are. I can kind of audit with the bots remembering, which is actually really great. 00:52:19.855 --> 00:52:22.155 And my obsidian vault is synced and backed up. 00:52:22.655 --> 00:52:26.435 So there's that aspect of it as well. So I initially started using it as a second 00:52:26.435 --> 00:52:28.675 brain to remember tasks and reminders. 00:52:28.675 --> 00:52:34.395 And then I created a chat room for my wife, Hadea, where she could send it reminders 00:52:34.395 --> 00:52:37.895 for me or, for example, our trip to planet Nix. 00:52:38.615 --> 00:52:44.195 She can just dump all of the VRBO details for us in there and continue to update 00:52:44.195 --> 00:52:45.235 it as new updates come in. 00:52:45.355 --> 00:52:47.855 And then I'll just request that information from the bot when I need it. 00:52:48.600 --> 00:52:51.940 And that's really great because trying to keep all that date state in my head, 00:52:52.080 --> 00:52:54.820 I have, you know, time aphasia. I'm horrible at it. 00:52:55.120 --> 00:52:57.400 So that was my first go at it. But 00:52:57.400 --> 00:53:02.580 what I realized later on is that I was significantly under utilizing it. 00:53:02.860 --> 00:53:08.780 And so now I'm using it to orchestrate my network to an extremely effective 00:53:08.780 --> 00:53:12.980 degree, you know, given it limited permissions at first and then kind of taking it forward. 00:53:13.580 --> 00:53:17.220 But now it has access to several 00:53:17.220 --> 00:53:20.500 systems and it's really impressive because when 00:53:20.500 --> 00:53:23.840 it knows about these things and it remembers these different things then 00:53:23.840 --> 00:53:26.480 when i ask it to build me a solution like a like host a 00:53:26.480 --> 00:53:29.860 matter most instance for me it is able to leverage my 00:53:29.860 --> 00:53:33.100 nix os infrastructure my vps infrastructure my cloudflare infrastructure 00:53:33.100 --> 00:53:36.080 all of it and it knows my security best practices that 00:53:36.080 --> 00:53:38.720 i prefer it knows that i i generally like to have things set up in 00:53:38.720 --> 00:53:41.420 a certain way and it can just go and work on that and 00:53:41.420 --> 00:53:44.780 then come back with a proposal for me and then i can approve modify etc 00:53:44.780 --> 00:53:47.860 and then it just deploys it and that's really powerful 00:53:47.860 --> 00:53:50.600 the other thing that's been really useful is i 00:53:50.600 --> 00:53:55.400 have a daily briefing that scours all of my rss feeds in fresh rss and gives 00:53:55.400 --> 00:53:58.600 me a report of what's happening in the different areas and niches that the shows 00:53:58.600 --> 00:54:04.460 follow and keeps tabs on ones i can mark with i put uh i have it add uh buttons 00:54:04.460 --> 00:54:08.200 so i can a little check mark so for a story I wanted to continue to follow. 00:54:08.600 --> 00:54:13.920 It'll also give me all of the TV shows or YouTube videos that have downloaded in the last 24 hours. 00:54:14.060 --> 00:54:18.360 It surfaces all of the boosts in the last 24 hours, so I now get them in my morning brief. 00:54:18.980 --> 00:54:22.940 And it also gives me an overview of any snapshot of any system issues that have 00:54:22.940 --> 00:54:26.200 come up and report on my API credits remaining. 00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:31.280 And then Hadiyah gets a separate brief of my schedule, what I have going on, 00:54:31.320 --> 00:54:33.940 and then she can reply with anything that isn't normally on her schedule that 00:54:33.940 --> 00:54:36.160 needs to get added, so I'm aware of it in that chat morning. 00:54:36.160 --> 00:54:40.180 And so mine arrives at 7.30 a.m. and hers arrives at 8.30 a.m. 00:54:41.697 --> 00:54:43.937 And that is probably about 20% of how I'm using it. 00:54:44.057 --> 00:54:47.397 If I'm honest with you. It sounds like part personal assistant, 00:54:47.977 --> 00:54:54.417 part, like, I don't know, network administrator, part, like, DevOps. 00:54:55.317 --> 00:54:58.277 After talking to Abe, I'm thinking I probably should have, you know, 00:54:58.357 --> 00:54:59.977 some domain expertise here, really. 00:55:00.197 --> 00:55:02.317 But that's, you know, this was really, I wanted to just get a, 00:55:02.397 --> 00:55:05.197 I wanted to get a sense if there was a there, there. 00:55:05.577 --> 00:55:08.977 You know what I mean? Like, everybody's hyping it up, making YouTube videos 00:55:08.977 --> 00:55:11.417 about it and whatnot. But I wanted to see if there was a real there, there. 00:55:11.697 --> 00:55:16.817 And my takeaway is the biggest there is a win for open source because it is 00:55:16.817 --> 00:55:19.637 all free software and it's model agnostic. 00:55:19.877 --> 00:55:23.597 It incentivizes open source models and it's extremely powerful. 00:55:23.817 --> 00:55:27.537 It's limited to your creativity and what you have API keys and APIs for. 00:55:28.057 --> 00:55:29.457 And it's very easy to get set up. 00:55:29.717 --> 00:55:29.977 Yeah. 00:55:30.177 --> 00:55:33.837 I mean, you do need some way to get the brain going. But other than that. 00:55:33.957 --> 00:55:36.157 And you want to spend some time reading best security practices. 00:55:36.157 --> 00:55:38.197 You need to be aware of prompt injections. 00:55:38.237 --> 00:55:41.277 Again, this is all very early. we what 00:55:41.277 --> 00:55:47.417 we are going to witness is we're going to witness open claw blaze a trail of 00:55:47.417 --> 00:55:53.257 glass and get cut after cut after cut and because this was a yolo and the people 00:55:53.257 --> 00:55:57.177 using it are yoloing into it and they need to be aware of that and so there 00:55:57.177 --> 00:55:58.577 are going to be security issues, 00:55:59.337 --> 00:56:03.577 on all of these things and it's going to be a process and then what we will 00:56:03.577 --> 00:56:07.777 see is forks and alternatives that are more secure, blah, blah, 00:56:07.997 --> 00:56:11.217 or built in this, blah, blah, or designed for this, yada, yada. 00:56:11.397 --> 00:56:14.757 And there'll be a lot of competitors and niches. And then probably ultimately 00:56:14.757 --> 00:56:20.157 we'll see big tech come up with a really safe sandboxed, has a nice bow tie 00:56:20.157 --> 00:56:22.497 on its version, you know, that they'll sell only. 00:56:22.497 --> 00:56:23.197 Runs on the Mac. 00:56:23.477 --> 00:56:25.357 Well, it'll be on their cloud. No doubt about it. 00:56:25.497 --> 00:56:25.517 Sure. 00:56:26.097 --> 00:56:28.877 You know, and we'll see all of it. We're going to see all, but this is the beginning 00:56:28.877 --> 00:56:34.517 and it started in open source and open source for, I'd say the last seven, nine months, 00:56:35.954 --> 00:56:39.234 Hasn't seen a lot of representation in the AI conversation. And then this just 00:56:39.234 --> 00:56:42.654 came and it had its deep seek moment and it just, it just rolled everybody. 00:56:42.774 --> 00:56:46.234 So it's a big deal, but there is a lot of hype and there's a lot of, 00:56:46.334 --> 00:56:47.654 there is a lot of security risk. 00:56:47.794 --> 00:56:50.274 And so it's just something to be aware of. We'll keep an eye on it. 00:56:50.374 --> 00:56:52.954 We won't probably be going on and on about it in the show, but if there's some 00:56:52.954 --> 00:56:55.174 major developments, we'll keep you posted. 00:56:58.434 --> 00:57:01.494 Well, I don't have a plug. I don't know. I just want to say thanks again for 00:57:01.494 --> 00:57:04.614 supporting the show. Anything we should mention here? Meetups. We've mentioned that. 00:57:05.354 --> 00:57:07.994 is there anything we never mentioned that we should mention I don't know. 00:57:07.994 --> 00:57:08.994 We have a mumble room. 00:57:08.994 --> 00:57:12.734 Yeah we mention that sometimes we do mention that I didn't get a chance to check 00:57:12.734 --> 00:57:17.214 the email inbox have been busy this week but there's something an agent could 00:57:17.214 --> 00:57:22.074 do tell you what people could you know prompt injector god damn don't do that. 00:57:23.614 --> 00:57:24.014 Well. 00:57:24.014 --> 00:57:25.234 You can try we might give you an award. 00:57:27.994 --> 00:57:34.474 We got a ballerist boost here this week from optic gyre oh wait i read that 00:57:34.474 --> 00:57:39.014 wrong op tiger optic tiger why am i so bad at this one i'm so sorry, 00:57:39.894 --> 00:57:43.614 one two three four five zero satoshis. 00:57:47.299 --> 00:57:50.899 Oh, that's a good one. All right. 00:57:53.259 --> 00:57:54.299 Thank you, Optic. 00:57:54.539 --> 00:57:58.139 Optic says, happy birthday, and here's to just another decade. 00:57:59.039 --> 00:58:03.119 Oh, yeah, let's go. I got a decade in me. I'm going to do it. 00:58:03.219 --> 00:58:04.499 You got decades, brother. 00:58:04.859 --> 00:58:11.479 Thank you, Optic. Appreciate that baller boost. Really do. PJ comes in with a row of McDucks. 00:58:13.359 --> 00:58:16.459 That'd be 22,222 sats. 00:58:17.559 --> 00:58:22.359 he says happy birthday b-day boost thank you pj appreciate you sir. 00:58:22.359 --> 00:58:25.879 Tomato boost in with 20 000 sats. 00:58:25.879 --> 00:58:27.199 Hey that's not so bad either. 00:58:27.199 --> 00:58:32.879 Congratulations on 20 years of podcasting i see. 00:58:32.879 --> 00:58:34.199 20 000 sats for 20 years. 00:58:34.199 --> 00:58:35.399 Thank you. 00:58:35.399 --> 00:58:37.179 Thank you appreciate that. 00:58:37.179 --> 00:58:41.079 Thanks for the van tips too i'll look first at mounting internal temp and freshwater 00:58:41.079 --> 00:58:45.159 temp and levels yeah keep us posted That sounds like a fun project. 00:58:45.779 --> 00:58:51.019 Definitely, definitely. Clement's here with 11,100 11 sats. 00:58:53.319 --> 00:58:57.239 My DNS setup uses Tectidium servers, two LANs, and one VPS. 00:58:57.519 --> 00:59:01.279 It's in a cluster for native sync. My firewalls manage port 53. 00:59:01.459 --> 00:59:02.999 The LAN allows more than a VPS. 00:59:03.519 --> 00:59:06.779 Split Horizon lets me add all node IPs, mesh or LAN. 00:59:06.979 --> 00:59:10.719 And service DNS CNames point to nodes, ensuring that Tectidium delivers the 00:59:10.719 --> 00:59:12.539 correct IP based on client alone. 00:59:12.659 --> 00:59:13.319 That's awesome. 00:59:13.319 --> 00:59:14.839 That is really good. 00:59:15.039 --> 00:59:15.439 Fancy. 00:59:15.639 --> 00:59:18.779 Yeah, I think if I were to lift and just build a whole new setup, 00:59:19.019 --> 00:59:23.239 I would probably go that route. I was so deep down the pie hole already that... 00:59:23.239 --> 00:59:26.919 Hey, I mean, they added an API. They got the DNS mass sort of compatibility. 00:59:27.139 --> 00:59:28.479 There's a lot to love about pie hole. 00:59:28.699 --> 00:59:29.419 I think so. 00:59:29.739 --> 00:59:32.239 Well, the dude abides, abides in with 10k sats. 00:59:32.259 --> 00:59:32.539 Hey! 00:59:36.821 --> 00:59:41.201 I stumbled upon this declarative home assistant installation on Reddit. 00:59:41.441 --> 00:59:41.701 Uh-oh. 00:59:41.881 --> 00:59:42.721 You might be interested. 00:59:43.061 --> 00:59:43.981 Uh-oh, what do you think, Wes? 00:59:44.121 --> 00:59:47.741 Yes, we're linked to something called SoloraBox-Nix. 00:59:47.741 --> 00:59:48.001 Okay. 00:59:48.101 --> 00:59:48.801 What do you see there? 00:59:49.001 --> 00:59:52.741 Well, it's for self-configuring home automation appliances based on NixOS featuring 00:59:52.741 --> 00:59:57.621 an automated installation, device claiming via QR code, and self-updating configuration management. 00:59:57.901 --> 00:59:58.681 Oh, fancy. 00:59:59.041 --> 01:00:03.241 Boy, talk about getting me in one pitch. I came in with the skeptic cat on. 01:00:03.241 --> 01:00:05.641 Here's another thing for if you do a total rebuild, huh? 01:00:05.641 --> 01:00:07.261 Thanks, dude. Appreciate that. 01:00:08.801 --> 01:00:12.681 Our dear RP 1984 comes in with 10,000 sats. 01:00:13.221 --> 01:00:13.921 Hey, there he is. 01:00:16.221 --> 01:00:18.441 Just a simple happy birthday. 01:00:19.361 --> 01:00:26.421 Aw, thank you. I appreciate that. Witcher 123 is here with 10,000 sats. 01:00:31.455 --> 01:00:34.555 Happy birthday! I just accidentally nuked my Pop! OS install. 01:00:34.735 --> 01:00:34.915 Oh. 01:00:36.755 --> 01:00:39.955 Don't worry, it's on a secondary laptop. Any fun distro recommendations to try 01:00:39.955 --> 01:00:43.115 out? Not just for gaming, as that is covered by my Steam Deck. 01:00:43.415 --> 01:00:46.855 Okay, we got a zip code, Wes, so get yourself ready because... 01:00:46.855 --> 01:00:49.575 Yes, zip code is a better deal. 01:00:49.735 --> 01:00:52.655 So the zip code is 39-300 in Poland. 01:00:53.255 --> 01:00:58.015 In Poland, it's a place known for aviation fans. The Blackhawks are produced here. 01:00:58.895 --> 01:00:59.275 Huh. 01:00:59.355 --> 01:01:03.335 Interesting. Interesting. So any recommendations for a fun? 01:01:03.395 --> 01:01:04.235 Scanning, scanning. 01:01:05.335 --> 01:01:08.395 Well, if you haven't tried an immutable distro, this could be a great time to play around. 01:01:09.035 --> 01:01:13.175 I'd say that's worth it. I'd say that's worth a go. There's a lot of options there. 01:01:13.355 --> 01:01:16.395 I think you should maybe give CacheOS a try, too. It's fun. I know you said 01:01:16.395 --> 01:01:17.735 not for gaming, but that's a lot of fun. 01:01:18.695 --> 01:01:26.935 Okay, okay. 39-300 is the postal code for Swidnik, a town in eastern Poland near Lublin. 01:01:27.475 --> 01:01:27.855 Okay. 01:01:28.415 --> 01:01:30.335 Renowned among aviation enthusiasts. 01:01:30.335 --> 01:01:31.055 That's it. 01:01:31.595 --> 01:01:36.735 PZL-Swidnik, a historic aircraft manufacturer, now part of Leonardo Helicopters. 01:01:36.875 --> 01:01:40.935 Cool. All right. All right. Well, that's really cool. Thank you, Witcher. 01:01:41.735 --> 01:01:45.795 Jack E. comes in with 10,021 sats. 01:01:48.810 --> 01:01:53.530 Greetings. I integrated Holesall connection in Nextcloud's Android app. 01:01:53.710 --> 01:02:00.750 Now someone can access their Nextcloud installation directly P2P just by scanning their wholesale key. 01:02:03.050 --> 01:02:05.170 That's so cool. 01:02:05.430 --> 01:02:07.490 It's available and then we have a link we'll have in the show notes. 01:02:08.330 --> 01:02:12.790 It's aimed to be used along with my Nyxed Cloud project. 01:02:13.150 --> 01:02:15.110 Whoa, now we're just finding out. 01:02:15.450 --> 01:02:16.990 Nyxed Cloud, stop it. 01:02:17.450 --> 01:02:21.810 And of course you can find docs for the amazing wholesale at their website, wholesale.io. 01:02:22.270 --> 01:02:26.130 That is great to know. And we will put a link to that in the show notes as well. 01:02:26.250 --> 01:02:28.370 Thank you, Jack. Appreciate that very much. 01:02:28.730 --> 01:02:31.510 Thank you, everybody who boosted it. And even those of you who boost below the 01:02:31.510 --> 01:02:34.710 2000 set cutoff, we still read them and appreciates them very much. 01:02:35.110 --> 01:02:38.310 And let's combine it all together, boys. Let's see with our sat streamers this 01:02:38.310 --> 01:02:41.490 week. We had 34 of them streaming sats as they listened to this here show. 01:02:41.970 --> 01:02:48.830 They collectively stacked us 900. Nope. They collectively stacked us 238,528 sats. See, I got it. 01:02:48.970 --> 01:02:51.450 I got it. See, you thought I didn't have it. I got it. 01:02:51.470 --> 01:02:52.230 I trust you. 01:02:52.530 --> 01:02:56.630 When you combine that with our boosters, we had a nice birthday boost bash. 01:02:56.950 --> 01:03:01.510 We stacked a grand total of 238,528 sats. 01:03:13.712 --> 01:03:16.792 If you'd like to support the show with a boost, Fountain FM makes it easier 01:03:16.792 --> 01:03:20.932 and easier just about every single release. It's getting so crazy easy now, 01:03:20.992 --> 01:03:24.512 and it's a great app with tons of features, and including all of the extra features 01:03:24.512 --> 01:03:26.512 we put in our podcasting 2.0 feed. 01:03:26.692 --> 01:03:30.292 You can also go the entirely sovereign self-hosted route. Just start with AlbiHub 01:03:30.292 --> 01:03:34.172 and then pick your app at newpodcastapps.com. Thank you, everybody. 01:03:34.392 --> 01:03:36.652 And, of course, thank you to our members. 01:03:38.472 --> 01:03:40.972 Two pick-a-rooskies for you, boys, before we get out of here. 01:03:40.972 --> 01:03:46.032 Wes, you found an app that makes it super easy to make one of these Gaussian splats. 01:03:46.532 --> 01:03:50.052 And if you're not familiar, listeners, these Gaussian splats have been around 01:03:50.052 --> 01:03:54.632 for a little bit. And Apple recently released a version that is very good. 01:03:54.632 --> 01:03:58.092 And you can just take a flat 2D digital picture. 01:03:58.332 --> 01:04:02.672 You run it through the splat and it makes it a complete 3D scene. 01:04:02.912 --> 01:04:06.432 And if you had if you had yourself some of them virtual reality gogs on, 01:04:06.552 --> 01:04:09.612 you could actually walk into the scene and see depth. 01:04:09.832 --> 01:04:15.612 Right. No LiDAR, no multi-camera setup. It takes your average picture of your 01:04:15.612 --> 01:04:19.092 three-year-old you took a decade ago, and you can now make it three-dimensional. 01:04:19.848 --> 01:04:21.708 But we've been kind of left out of the fun. 01:04:21.988 --> 01:04:24.948 Yeah, this is true. So you do need something called Pinocchio. 01:04:25.108 --> 01:04:25.408 I'm sorry? 01:04:25.868 --> 01:04:28.668 Which is like a Pinocchio.computer, which I hadn't really heard of. 01:04:29.308 --> 01:04:34.368 The one-click local host cloud. So I think it's kind of in that umbral start 01:04:34.368 --> 01:04:35.608 nine kind of space. I'm not sure. 01:04:36.008 --> 01:04:41.928 But someone's gone and done all the work to make a one-click setup and a web UI for running ML Sharp. 01:04:42.148 --> 01:04:47.428 That's pretty nice. there if you know if there's a if there's a a moment where 01:04:47.428 --> 01:04:51.688 you have a great photo it takes it up to the next level when you see this yeah. 01:04:51.688 --> 01:04:55.048 It's pretty neat right so basically it goes and figures out and estimates the 01:04:55.048 --> 01:04:58.088 depth for each of the pixels and then figures out how to lay out the whole scene 01:04:58.088 --> 01:04:59.928 and then yeah you can poke around at it. 01:04:59.928 --> 01:05:00.468 And this works. 01:05:00.468 --> 01:05:01.188 Pretty good on vans. 01:05:01.188 --> 01:05:04.968 Yeah it does this is this is uh supports systems 01:05:04.968 --> 01:05:08.928 with a low amount of vram it's still very fast it's a it's a good one so if 01:05:08.928 --> 01:05:12.008 you get it working put a link in our matrix chat all right now i want to talk 01:05:12.008 --> 01:05:15.048 you about an app that i think is the best screenshot app out there for linux 01:05:15.048 --> 01:05:18.808 right now but i don't love the name it's called gradia it helps you get great 01:05:18.808 --> 01:05:22.548 screenshots that you can share with people for friends colleagues or professionally so. 01:05:22.548 --> 01:05:23.928 This is what you've been using. 01:05:23.928 --> 01:05:28.028 I wondered if you notice how sweet my screenshots are and i've. 01:05:28.028 --> 01:05:31.728 Seen a bunch there's there's been various like hosted tools for this right websites you can go. 01:05:31.728 --> 01:05:32.068 To but. 01:05:32.068 --> 01:05:32.808 Who wants that. 01:05:32.808 --> 01:05:36.528 Ain't nobody want that one of the nice things you can do and there's a lot of 01:05:36.528 --> 01:05:40.908 options is you can have solid or gradient backgrounds or image backgrounds around 01:05:40.908 --> 01:05:42.768 your screenshot. So it has a bit of a border. 01:05:43.308 --> 01:05:47.148 It just looks better when you share a screenshot that has a bit of a border. 01:05:47.268 --> 01:05:48.648 I can't describe it. Right? Do you agree? 01:05:48.808 --> 01:05:51.268 It does. Although, does it force you to make it look like you're on a Mac? 01:05:52.168 --> 01:05:53.568 Because some of these tools do. 01:05:53.748 --> 01:05:56.308 Yeah, some of the default colors do make it look like you're on a Mac. 01:05:56.948 --> 01:05:59.828 It also has a really nice source code snippet feature. 01:05:59.848 --> 01:06:04.408 So you can pleasantly display source code snippets across messaging platforms 01:06:04.408 --> 01:06:05.848 that maybe don't have support for, 01:06:06.809 --> 01:06:11.289 It also has OCR support. So if you take a screenshot of something and you want 01:06:11.289 --> 01:06:15.949 to extract text from it, it has 20 different languages it supports for doing that. 01:06:16.429 --> 01:06:20.769 And then it is a first-class brand-new GNOME desktop. 01:06:20.989 --> 01:06:23.369 Of course, it works great on my Hyperland desktop. It's Waylon first, 01:06:23.649 --> 01:06:25.229 seamless GNOME OS integration. 01:06:25.649 --> 01:06:30.789 Really good design. What I just love about it is I start it. I select the area. 01:06:30.929 --> 01:06:35.089 It immediately copies to the keyboard or I mean to the pasteboard, clipboard. 01:06:35.169 --> 01:06:38.889 And it looks so good. It just looks so good. If I want to draw a quick circle 01:06:38.889 --> 01:06:41.989 or something on there and share it with you guys, it's leaner and meatier than 01:06:41.989 --> 01:06:42.929 something like Flameshot. 01:06:43.809 --> 01:06:46.309 I mean, you'll just have the best screenshots in your group chat, 01:06:46.509 --> 01:06:48.329 right? I got the best screenshots. 01:06:48.349 --> 01:06:49.189 Yes, it's true. 01:06:50.729 --> 01:06:53.709 I mean, we know you don't take them yourself anymore, but they look good. 01:06:55.209 --> 01:06:56.709 Why do you say you don't like the name? 01:06:58.109 --> 01:07:01.509 Well, because I can never think of it on my launcher when I want to take a quick 01:07:01.509 --> 01:07:04.789 screenshot to share with you guys. Like, I'm like, what is the damn name? It's not Screenshot. 01:07:04.969 --> 01:07:08.209 It's not Flame. It's, oh, yeah, right. Great, yeah. I just don't think of a 01:07:08.209 --> 01:07:09.329 G when I think of screenshots. 01:07:11.209 --> 01:07:14.069 GPL 3.0 for that bad boy as well. 01:07:14.229 --> 01:07:16.909 So you can go get links to that in our show notes. Yes, friends, 01:07:16.949 --> 01:07:20.469 we have show notes over at linuxunplugged.com slash five. 01:07:22.029 --> 01:07:23.829 No, six, five, two. 01:07:24.309 --> 01:07:25.129 I don't believe it. 01:07:25.649 --> 01:07:29.649 I don't. I don't. 652. So it's linuxunplugged.com slash 652, 01:07:30.029 --> 01:07:31.849 and you'll get the notes to what we talked about today. 01:07:31.949 --> 01:07:36.609 But Wes, there are actual extra stuff, goodies, that maybe they're not on the 01:07:36.609 --> 01:07:38.769 website, but they are in the RSS feed. 01:07:38.909 --> 01:07:41.489 Yeah, I mean, that's the real source of truth anyway. The website's great, 01:07:41.689 --> 01:07:44.989 to be clear, but it's generated from the RSS feed. 01:07:45.089 --> 01:07:47.449 So that's where you go when you want the real good deeds. 01:07:47.629 --> 01:07:48.189 The source of truth. 01:07:48.329 --> 01:07:51.029 Yeah, which, I mean, could just be to get the MP3 link directly, 01:07:51.189 --> 01:07:53.009 because, you know, you want to get the raw stuff. 01:07:53.189 --> 01:07:54.269 Maybe you want to get a transcript. 01:07:54.489 --> 01:07:55.729 That's right. I think you could. 01:07:55.729 --> 01:07:57.409 Yeah, maybe you want to know what the chapters are. 01:07:57.549 --> 01:08:01.009 VTT or SRT or cloud chapter JSON. 01:08:01.269 --> 01:08:04.889 And your agent's going to love the fact that our cloud chapters are JSON. 01:08:05.369 --> 01:08:08.229 Your agent's going to love that. So you could just have it parse that JSON file 01:08:08.229 --> 01:08:10.729 and tell you right where to go in the file. 01:08:11.069 --> 01:08:14.749 Yeah, or it could suck in the VTT, which is the one with the dialization, 01:08:14.809 --> 01:08:18.509 and then it could tell you what the dumbest thing each of us said for that episode was. 01:08:18.729 --> 01:08:20.889 Spend the tokens on that for us, wouldn't you? We'd love it. 01:08:20.909 --> 01:08:21.389 And then write it. 01:08:21.489 --> 01:08:21.649 Yeah. 01:08:21.749 --> 01:08:22.069 Boost it. 01:08:22.189 --> 01:08:23.389 All right, and join us live. 01:08:27.115 --> 01:08:30.455 It does take the experience up a little bit. Make it a Tuesday on a Sunday over 01:08:30.455 --> 01:08:34.555 at jblive.tv. We do it on a Sunday 10, on a Sunday at 1. 01:08:35.675 --> 01:08:38.495 Well, actually, on all the Sundays. Just go to jupiterbroadcasting.com slash 01:08:38.495 --> 01:08:40.695 calendar. It'll be a Sunday at your time. 01:08:40.835 --> 01:08:43.615 We're going to switch to UTC, so, you know, think about it. We should. 01:08:43.735 --> 01:08:48.535 We just should say it in UTC. Let us know if you want us to switch to UTC. I'll do it. I'll do it. 01:08:49.135 --> 01:08:53.115 I'll do it. Give us a plus one on the UTC. All right. You know where the links 01:08:53.115 --> 01:08:56.115 are. You know all about that good stuff, so I'll just leave you with this. 01:08:56.515 --> 01:08:59.075 We'd love to hear your thoughts on all the stuff we talked about today. 01:08:59.275 --> 01:09:02.175 If you're experimenting with agents or if you're against it, let us know. 01:09:02.535 --> 01:09:05.295 Send us a boost or go to the contact page, and we'll see you right back here 01:09:05.295 --> 01:09:07.535 next Tuesday on a Sunday.
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